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A Discussion About PvP Builds

  • CatchMeTrolling
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    Can’t have a serious discussion about this if you don’t include every factor associated with mag and stam.

    While stam has high damage, a strong hot, the best ult across the board, more chances to sprint /roll dodge, more sustain to do both, mobility, easier sustain tools to recover stam or keep stam up etc. magic offers utility, the best defensive sets in the game, zerg busting, the best group synergy, powerful shields, decent hots, probably the best at warding off a zerg while also being the best zergers etc.

    It’s not an easy comparison because you really shouldn’t compare the two. Can’t even balance both variations the same way.

    You make a good post.

    I would say there is are significant trade offs for all forms of builds.

    Personally I do not feel Magicka has or will have an advantage when will building for survivability/damage over stamina in PvP; this would be my biggest take away from me. My reasons listed in the OP

    Edit: even when incorporating the other aspects of utility brought by both forms (i.e. block, set availability, weapon selection etc)

    When the amount of enemies increase Magicka wins in that category, when the numbers aren’t overwhelming stam wins.

    If I had to bet on who would have a better chance at wiping a group 4 v 20 with just their variations choosing from magdk, magplar, magsorc & magblade vs their counter parts in the same scenario I’d choose the mag builds, even more so now that everyone has access to major expedition.
    Ebonheart Pact: Templar - Overlord - Knight Paladin Tiberium Aka The Golden Saint

  • Akinos
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    Can’t have a serious discussion about this if you don’t include every factor associated with mag and stam.

    While stam has high damage, a strong hot, the best ult across the board, more chances to sprint /roll dodge, more sustain to do both, mobility, easier sustain tools to recover stam or keep stam up etc. magic offers utility, the best defensive sets in the game, zerg busting, the best group synergy, powerful shields, decent hots, probably the best at warding off a zerg while also being the best zergers etc.

    It’s not an easy comparison because you really shouldn’t compare the two. Can’t even balance both variations the same way.

    You make a good post.

    I would say there is are significant trade offs for all forms of builds.

    Personally I do not feel Magicka has or will have an advantage when will building for survivability/damage over stamina in PvP; this would be my biggest take away from me. My reasons listed in the OP

    Edit: even when incorporating the other aspects of utility brought by both forms (i.e. block, set availability, weapon selection etc)

    When the amount of enemies increase Magicka wins in that category, when the numbers aren’t overwhelming stam wins.

    If I had to bet on who would have a better chance at wiping a group 4 v 20 with just their variations choosing from magdk, magplar, magsorc & magblade vs their counter parts in the same scenario I’d choose the mag builds, even more so now that everyone has access to major expedition.

    You left out magden and their counterpart, the stamden, which several guilds, at least on PC NA, have been running 10-16 stamdens in their raids shalk dawnbreaking and steel nadoing everything into oblivion. At this point destro bombers are a rare sight.
  • CatchMeTrolling
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    Akinos wrote: »
    Can’t have a serious discussion about this if you don’t include every factor associated with mag and stam.

    While stam has high damage, a strong hot, the best ult across the board, more chances to sprint /roll dodge, more sustain to do both, mobility, easier sustain tools to recover stam or keep stam up etc. magic offers utility, the best defensive sets in the game, zerg busting, the best group synergy, powerful shields, decent hots, probably the best at warding off a zerg while also being the best zergers etc.

    It’s not an easy comparison because you really shouldn’t compare the two. Can’t even balance both variations the same way.

    You make a good post.

    I would say there is are significant trade offs for all forms of builds.

    Personally I do not feel Magicka has or will have an advantage when will building for survivability/damage over stamina in PvP; this would be my biggest take away from me. My reasons listed in the OP

    Edit: even when incorporating the other aspects of utility brought by both forms (i.e. block, set availability, weapon selection etc)

    When the amount of enemies increase Magicka wins in that category, when the numbers aren’t overwhelming stam wins.

    If I had to bet on who would have a better chance at wiping a group 4 v 20 with just their variations choosing from magdk, magplar, magsorc & magblade vs their counter parts in the same scenario I’d choose the mag builds, even more so now that everyone has access to major expedition.

    You left out magden and their counterpart, the stamden, which several guilds, at least on PC NA, have been running 10-16 stamdens in their raids shalk dawnbreaking and steel nadoing everything into oblivion. At this point destro bombers are a rare sight.

    Left them out on purpose since I wanted to use 4 members and also the fact that stam warden and mag warden has the biggest gap between each other out of the classes. But even then I’d still take the mag group since that’s an aoe defile plus a decent aoe ult added to the group.

    Ebonheart Pact: Templar - Overlord - Knight Paladin Tiberium Aka The Golden Saint

  • grannas211
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    Most people parroting this play primarily stamina toons and they don’t want the fact that stamina is just flat out better in PvP to be known by everyone.
  • TheDoomsdayMonster
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    grannas211 wrote: »
    Most people parroting this play primarily stamina toons and they don’t want the fact that stamina is just flat out better in PvP to be known by everyone.

    I wouldn't say Stamina is better than Magicka in PvP; a well done Magicka build can be very powerful in its own right...

    But I would say that they are different...
    Unyeilding Bias
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  • Waffennacht
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    It is definitely easier for me to perform well on a Stam character than a mag; and I've played mag almost exclusively for the first 2 years
    Gamer tag: ShenronNacht NA Xbox One
    1100+ CP
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  • TheDoomsdayMonster
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    It is definitely easier for me to perform well on a Stam character than a mag; and I've played mag almost exclusively for the first 2 years

    IMHO Stamina is easier to "get" as you can Break Free more readily, Dodge Roll more readily, and inherently have more mobility than Magicka in PvP...

    That said, I think Magicka is the most powerful at the very top tiers at current (again, IMHO)...


    Nowadays, the only class that can beat my Magicka Templar 1v1 is a well built, well played, Magicka Nightblade...

    No Stamina build beats me; at best a Warden or Stamblade can stalemate me...


    This is going to change assuming the PTS changes stay as is...

    I am hungrily awaiting the day when I can Crit Shield Stackers; those Magicka Nightblades who can beat me now are doomed once their Shield Stacking Spam goes away......


    Edited by TheDoomsdayMonster on September 30, 2018 1:38AM
    Unyeilding Bias
    PSN TheLordofMurder
    PS4 NA
    Magicka Templar
    DC
    The Combat Physician: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKaqUVm_8JE&t=142s
  • thankyourat
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    It is definitely easier for me to perform well on a Stam character than a mag; and I've played mag almost exclusively for the first 2 years

    IMHO Stamina is easier to "get" as you can Break Free more readily, Dodge Roll more readily, and inherently have more mobility than Magicka in PvP...

    That said, I think Magicka is the most powerful at the very top tiers at current (again, IMHO)...


    Nowadays, the only class that can beat my Magicka Templar 1v1 is a well built, well played, Magicka Nightblade...

    No Stamina build beats me; at best a Warden or Stamblade can stalemate me...


    This is going to change assuming the PTS changes stay as is...

    I am hungrily awaiting the day when I can Crit Shield Stackers; those Magicka Nightblades who can beat me now are doomed once their Shield Stacking Spam goes away......


    Magicka is only the most powerful in the top teir of dueling, but most of those strong mag builds that are good 1v1 are pretty meh in open world PvP. Even mag warden is pretty strong in dueling. The reason for this is Magicka builds greatest weakness is a low Stam pool and mobility neither of which matter 1v1 so they don't even build for it.

    it's the complete opposite in cyrodiil. A Magicka build has to gut their damage so much to get enough regen for shields and also have enough stamina regen to sprint and roll dodge. While also building enough Stam to be able to break free on cooldown. It's not uncommon to see Magicka builds running all utility or defensive sets in cyrodiil so the can survive. So it will come down to a Magicka build is a little better 1v1 while stamina builds are a lot better open world.

    As for magblades they aren't beating your magplar because of shields they are beating you because the combination of cripple and shade can turn even a really good magplar into a healbots. Magblade hard counters magplar shield or no shield. As well as they can just run heavy armor
  • IZZEFlameLash
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    Stamina > Magicka in PvP. Stamina does not lack anything really especially in a meta like this. Magicka equivalent of BP will close the gap slightly but it probably still won't be close enough.
    Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel
  • kaithuzar
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    Can we talk about getting a magicka version of Fury & vigor?

    For real, just remove bleeds & everything’s cool for the most part.
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  • fred4
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    Stacking max resource stat is less efficient when dealing damage than stacking damage stat - even more so when you consider the number of damage modifiers vs number of max resource modifiers.
    I agree with the gist of your post, but on this point we'd want to do a precise survey. Here's an imprecise one:

    A magicka character with a magicka race will get magicka buffs, as follows:

    +10% racial passive
    +8% from skill (NB Siphoning Skill, Warden Northern Storm, I'm sure sorc also has a passive)
    +7% from Inner Light

    That's +25%, with the possibility of another +2% from Meteor on NB.

    In terms of buffing spell damage we get Major Sorcery +20% and what? I think only templar gets Minor Sorcery. What else?

    In terms of armor sets, Necropotence and Shacklebreaker are quite efficient, better than Julianos. See here as to why:

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/427111/stat-based-armor-set-rankings

    Stamina has some fabulously efficient weapon damage sets, such as Fury, Ravager, Senche, Truth. Magicka doesn't have those. Clever Alchemist gives you health you don't need/want when you shield (in current patch), which offsets the spell damage you gain. I don't rate War Maiden and all the other sets of that ilk in the same league, since they don't buff all skills and don't buff healing. Things will only change once we get Spell Strategist.

    This is why conventional wisdom says magicka stacking works better on at least some magicka builds than spell damage stacking. When considering that it also buffs your shields, this has always been a bit of a no brainer to me on a shielding build. On my non-sorc characters it has been necessary to use Dampen, not Harness, to get the shield into a decent range, so magicka stacking has always felt quite necessary. It only got slightly better with the arrival with the additional Psijic shield and Temporal Guard.

    Stamina characters work the other way around. I don't think there is a passive that raises stamina. So you have:

    +10% stamina from racial passive

    versus

    +12% weapon damage from medium armor
    +20% weapon damage from Major Brutality
    Possibility of Minor Brutality (not sure from where)

    I certainly always believed stamina to be more biased towards weapon damage, and magicka towards magicka. One thing I'm not sure about is how Vigor scales. I'd love to see the formula for that, because I have the suspicion it scales better with stamina than weapon damage. Could be wrong, though.
    PC EU, Stamina DK (EP), Magicka NB (EP), Magicka Warden (EP), Magicka Templar (EP). Occasionally: Stamina Templar (EP), Stamina NB (AD), Stamina Sorcerer (DC)
  • Waffennacht
    Waffennacht
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    Real quick, didn't make it too far, no sorc doesn't have a max mag modifier in it's passive class skills

    Have to run Armaments and that's another slot (Innerlight) so 40% of one bar is static "abilities"

    Edit:

    Was thinking: major brutality spell dmg perk (can't remember off the top of my head, at work) vs.... ?

    Was not including abilities on a theoretical bar because that's too much of a variable imo

    Edit again: we'd have to assume (bad idea) altmer + Innerlight + Armaments (horrible horrible PvP build imo if it's running x2 statics)

    Edit again lol: suppose it's an Argonian mag sorc that wants to have abilities, it's 6% max mag vs 20% spell damage. Then you also need to consider the higher base value of spell damage vs max mag
    Edited by Waffennacht on October 1, 2018 8:48PM
    Gamer tag: ShenronNacht NA Xbox One
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  • fred4
    fred4
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    Real quick, didn't make it too far, no sorc doesn't have a max mag modifier in it's class skills
    Magicka has a higher starting point than spell damage. That's why the percentage bonuses work so well. It's really easy to have at least 30K magicka and you'll push it to 50K without Mage mundus and with all Hakeijo, on NB and warden, with a basic Shackle / Necro / Domihaus / Mag Monster setup. Tell me how to push Spell Damage that far instead. You use a staff. Getting to 2K (unbuffed) already requires an investment in spell damage, whereas 2H and DW have a higher starting point for weapon damage and get the 12% from medium (if using that).
    Edited by fred4 on October 1, 2018 9:28PM
    PC EU, Stamina DK (EP), Magicka NB (EP), Magicka Warden (EP), Magicka Templar (EP). Occasionally: Stamina Templar (EP), Stamina NB (AD), Stamina Sorcerer (DC)
  • fred4
    fred4
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    It's a little bit of a moot discussion, since everything will change next patch. You may well be wearing the magicka Bone Pirate set + Spell Strategist. You may be wearing 1x Chudan / 1x Pirate on top of that, and maybe some Protective. You'll only stack magicka so your shields reach cap. You will care more about health. You might even wear Impregnable.
    Edited by fred4 on October 1, 2018 9:02PM
    PC EU, Stamina DK (EP), Magicka NB (EP), Magicka Warden (EP), Magicka Templar (EP). Occasionally: Stamina Templar (EP), Stamina NB (AD), Stamina Sorcerer (DC)
  • Minno
    Minno
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    fred4 wrote: »
    It's a little bit of a moot discussion, since everything will change next patch. You may well be wearing the magicka Bone Pirate set + Spell Strategist. You may be wearing 1x Chudan / 1x Pirate on top of that, and maybe some Protective. You'll only stack magicka so your shields reach cap. You will care more about health. You might even wear Impregnable.

    really great feedback here. Love that set thread you posted/made as well!
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
  • fred4
    fred4
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    Minno wrote: »
    fred4 wrote: »
    It's a little bit of a moot discussion, since everything will change next patch. You may well be wearing the magicka Bone Pirate set + Spell Strategist. You may be wearing 1x Chudan / 1x Pirate on top of that, and maybe some Protective. You'll only stack magicka so your shields reach cap. You will care more about health. You might even wear Impregnable.

    Love that set thread you posted/made as well!
    Thanks!

    There is one caveat with that thread. It omits classifying drinks. For example, while Shacklebreaker gives you good value, it is typically used with Witchmother's Potent Brew. I haven't done a precise food calculation, but from memory:

    Ghastly Eye Bowl: 7
    Witchmother's Potent Brew: 8
    Longfin Pasty and Melon Sauce: 11

    In other words, tri-stat food is by far the most efficient food out of those three - if you want all the stats. In my view there are some distinctly different ways of building. One is something like:

    Witchmother's Potent Brew + Shacklebreaker + A.N.Other + all Hakeijo enchants

    The other is something like:

    Tri-stat food + Lich or Seducer + A.N.Other + probably only Hakeijo on the big pieces

    The two approaches may work out the same, but I haven't done the math. Clockwork Citrus Fillet probably pushes the first approach over the edge to be the winner, unless you're a vamp.
    PC EU, Stamina DK (EP), Magicka NB (EP), Magicka Warden (EP), Magicka Templar (EP). Occasionally: Stamina Templar (EP), Stamina NB (AD), Stamina Sorcerer (DC)
  • Waffennacht
    Waffennacht
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    fred4 wrote: »
    Real quick, didn't make it too far, no sorc doesn't have a max mag modifier in it's class skills
    Magicka has a higher starting point than spell damage. That's why the percentage bonuses work so well. It's really easy to have at least 30K magicka and you'll push it to 50K without Mage mundus and with all Hakeijo, on NB and warden, with a basic Shackle / Necro / Domihaus / Mag Monster setup. Tell me how to push Spell Damage that far instead. You use a staff. Getting to 2K (unbuffed) already requires an investment in spell damage, whereas 2H and DW have a higher starting point for weapon damage and get the 12% from medium (if using that).

    In CP. In BGs mag is even harder to come by. (No CP % mods)
    Gamer tag: ShenronNacht NA Xbox One
    1100+ CP
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  • Minno
    Minno
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    fred4 wrote: »
    Minno wrote: »
    fred4 wrote: »
    It's a little bit of a moot discussion, since everything will change next patch. You may well be wearing the magicka Bone Pirate set + Spell Strategist. You may be wearing 1x Chudan / 1x Pirate on top of that, and maybe some Protective. You'll only stack magicka so your shields reach cap. You will care more about health. You might even wear Impregnable.

    Love that set thread you posted/made as well!
    Thanks!

    There is one caveat with that thread. It omits classifying drinks. For example, while Shacklebreaker gives you good value, it is typically used with Witchmother's Potent Brew. I haven't done a precise food calculation, but from memory:

    Ghastly Eye Bowl: 7
    Witchmother's Potent Brew: 8
    Longfin Pasty and Melon Sauce: 11

    In other words, tri-stat food is by far the most efficient food out of those three - if you want all the stats. In my view there are some distinctly different ways of building. One is something like:

    Witchmother's Potent Brew + Shacklebreaker + A.N.Other + all Hakeijo enchants

    The other is something like:

    Tri-stat food + Lich or Seducer + A.N.Other + probably only Hakeijo on the big pieces

    The two approaches may work out the same, but I haven't done the math. Clockwork Citrus Fillet probably pushes the first approach over the edge to be the winner, unless you're a vamp.

    I am a big fan of tri-food with running other regen sources (Ele drain, channeled focus.) With mag bone pirate, there is the tri stat drink, which could let you go full SD while running those sources I have mentioned.

    You might want to run through the foods again now that we have some sets running around.
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
  • fred4
    fred4
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    fred4 wrote: »
    Real quick, didn't make it too far, no sorc doesn't have a max mag modifier in it's class skills
    Magicka has a higher starting point than spell damage. That's why the percentage bonuses work so well. It's really easy to have at least 30K magicka and you'll push it to 50K without Mage mundus and with all Hakeijo, on NB and warden, with a basic Shackle / Necro / Domihaus / Mag Monster setup. Tell me how to push Spell Damage that far instead. You use a staff. Getting to 2K (unbuffed) already requires an investment in spell damage, whereas 2H and DW have a higher starting point for weapon damage and get the 12% from medium (if using that).

    In CP. In BGs mag is even harder to come by. (No CP % mods)

    Yeah, I play mostly in CP. It skews your perspective ;).
    PC EU, Stamina DK (EP), Magicka NB (EP), Magicka Warden (EP), Magicka Templar (EP). Occasionally: Stamina Templar (EP), Stamina NB (AD), Stamina Sorcerer (DC)
  • fred4
    fred4
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    Minno wrote: »
    I am a big fan of tri-food with running other regen sources (Ele drain, channeled focus.) With mag bone pirate, there is the tri stat drink, which could let you go full SD while running those sources I have mentioned.

    You might want to run through the foods again now that we have some sets running around.
    My magplar is a work in progress. I've been running Prisoner + Overwhelming Surge + Skoria as of late, just to prove it's not all about stats ;). Surge is anti-nightblade and Prisoner is just fun when you combine it with Race Against Time. The stam regen from Prisoner has actually been quite necessary against people who CC a lot. 2x Protective has been enough to hold up in duels. Not using a shield, just heal, purge and occasionally resto ult.

    I don't like the templar CCs. Toppling Charge requires distance. Spear can be reflected. My duelling partner runs a stam DK with decent reflect uptime and Reverb Bash. That CC, and the Defile, just seems so much more effective than templar CCs. The next build I'm going to try is Prisoner + Amber Plasm + Skoria, at which point you have 1K stam regen, and I'll try Reverb Bash on a magplar build, with 2H and Forward Momentum on the other bar.
    PC EU, Stamina DK (EP), Magicka NB (EP), Magicka Warden (EP), Magicka Templar (EP). Occasionally: Stamina Templar (EP), Stamina NB (AD), Stamina Sorcerer (DC)
  • Waffennacht
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    fred4 wrote: »
    Minno wrote: »
    I am a big fan of tri-food with running other regen sources (Ele drain, channeled focus.) With mag bone pirate, there is the tri stat drink, which could let you go full SD while running those sources I have mentioned.

    You might want to run through the foods again now that we have some sets running around.
    My magplar is a work in progress. I've been running Prisoner + Overwhelming Surge + Skoria as of late, just to prove it's not all about stats ;). Surge is anti-nightblade and Prisoner is just fun when you combine it with Race Against Time. The stam regen from Prisoner has actually been quite necessary against people who CC a lot. 2x Protective has been enough to hold up in duels. Not using a shield, just heal, purge and occasionally resto ult.

    I don't like the templar CCs. Toppling Charge requires distance. Spear can be reflected. My duelling partner runs a stam DK with decent reflect uptime and Reverb Bash. That CC, and the Defile, just seems so much more effective than templar CCs. The next build I'm going to try is Prisoner + Amber Plasm + Skoria, at which point you have 1K stam regen, and I'll try Reverb Bash on a magplar build, with 2H and Forward Momentum on the other bar.

    Well no proc set build needs stats lol.

    I was also just thinking, in No CP you have lower spell damage in order to make up the loss of Regen. And as an opportunity cost you lose max mag.

    I wish they would come out and say Cyrodiil is the secondary form of PvP to BGs. It's treated as such. Can't see how anyone stands playing in Cyrodiil.

    Not only the bug issues etc. The sear amount of time waiting to fight is maddening. Plus, solo is like non-existent now

    But, as someone said, a lot can still change.

    However my sorc, unless something big happens, is pretty much delegated to non-trial PvE
    Gamer tag: ShenronNacht NA Xbox One
    1100+ CP
    Battleground PvP'er
    Shepherd of Rot - Stamina Necromancer BG Archer - No Gank
  • Minno
    Minno
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    fred4 wrote: »
    Minno wrote: »
    I am a big fan of tri-food with running other regen sources (Ele drain, channeled focus.) With mag bone pirate, there is the tri stat drink, which could let you go full SD while running those sources I have mentioned.

    You might want to run through the foods again now that we have some sets running around.
    My magplar is a work in progress. I've been running Prisoner + Overwhelming Surge + Skoria as of late, just to prove it's not all about stats ;). Surge is anti-nightblade and Prisoner is just fun when you combine it with Race Against Time. The stam regen from Prisoner has actually been quite necessary against people who CC a lot. 2x Protective has been enough to hold up in duels. Not using a shield, just heal, purge and occasionally resto ult.

    I don't like the templar CCs. Toppling Charge requires distance. Spear can be reflected. My duelling partner runs a stam DK with decent reflect uptime and Reverb Bash. That CC, and the Defile, just seems so much more effective than templar CCs. The next build I'm going to try is Prisoner + Amber Plasm + Skoria, at which point you have 1K stam regen, and I'll try Reverb Bash on a magplar build, with 2H and Forward Momentum on the other bar.

    You are making me want to go back to Prisoners.
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
  • fred4
    fred4
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    I mostly play solo. I am not a good 1vXer and spend a fair amount of time in IC. Riding isn't an issue there, and a lull in PvP means you farm Tel Var. As a nightblade it's perfectly viable to solo, and the changes to Mark will help that further. Other classes I tend to group, but I also always play speed builds. That templar with Prisoner and Race Against Time is hard to catch, once she gets going. Faster than Mist Form, though less defensive.
    PC EU, Stamina DK (EP), Magicka NB (EP), Magicka Warden (EP), Magicka Templar (EP). Occasionally: Stamina Templar (EP), Stamina NB (AD), Stamina Sorcerer (DC)
  • Waffennacht
    Waffennacht
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    fred4 wrote: »
    I mostly play solo. I am not a good 1vXer and spend a fair amount of time in IC. Riding isn't an issue there, and a lull in PvP means you farm Tel Var. As a nightblade it's perfectly viable to solo, and the changes to Mark will help that further. Other classes I tend to group, but I also always play speed builds. That templar with Prisoner and Race Against Time is hard to catch, once she gets going. Faster than Mist Form, though less defensive.

    NBs...

    Oh nightblades....

    If you're in IC with stones, where's your Physique? It's just OP therr
    Gamer tag: ShenronNacht NA Xbox One
    1100+ CP
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  • fred4
    fred4
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    Of course it is, and of course I wear it from time to time. I always have multiple gear setups with me.
    PC EU, Stamina DK (EP), Magicka NB (EP), Magicka Warden (EP), Magicka Templar (EP). Occasionally: Stamina Templar (EP), Stamina NB (AD), Stamina Sorcerer (DC)
  • fred4
    fred4
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    Try wearing Imperial Physique with 10K Tel Var in BG. It may surprise you, unless they fixed it. Pretty sure they fixed it...
    PC EU, Stamina DK (EP), Magicka NB (EP), Magicka Warden (EP), Magicka Templar (EP). Occasionally: Stamina Templar (EP), Stamina NB (AD), Stamina Sorcerer (DC)
  • kaithuzar
    kaithuzar
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    fred4 wrote: »
    Real quick, didn't make it too far, no sorc doesn't have a max mag modifier in it's class skills
    Magicka has a higher starting point than spell damage. That's why the percentage bonuses work so well. It's really easy to have at least 30K magicka and you'll push it to 50K without Mage mundus and with all Hakeijo, on NB and warden, with a basic Shackle / Necro / Domihaus / Mag Monster setup. Tell me how to push Spell Damage that far instead. You use a staff. Getting to 2K (unbuffed) already requires an investment in spell damage, whereas 2H and DW have a higher starting point for weapon damage and get the 12% from medium (if using that).

    I’ll argue with that spell damage point:
    3 infused willpower jewelry with spell dmg enchants, you can use either 2 piece kena or balorgh, you can pair that with Julianos, scathing mage, or other.
    Edited by kaithuzar on October 2, 2018 2:23AM
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  • Syiccal
    Syiccal
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    I have been thinking that maybe bright throats + dubious will give better all round stats than shackle on a magika build.
    it's the lack of stam that gets mag toon killed more often than not so I think this may be a good combination
  • Waffennacht
    Waffennacht
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    Syiccal wrote: »
    I have been thinking that maybe bright throats + dubious will give better all round stats than shackle on a magika build.
    it's the lack of stam that gets mag toon killed more often than not so I think this may be a good combination

    That's like a really good idea, can't do the math ATM (work) but it sounds good.

    I'm gonna be transmutating Transmutation's for my stamplar
    Gamer tag: ShenronNacht NA Xbox One
    1100+ CP
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