Do You Think A 1 Second Cast Time on Annulment & Conjured Ward Is Good For The Game?

UrQuan

As per the thread title.

If you answer "no" please comment on whether you think those shields needed to be nerfed in the first place, and if so please offer suggestion(s) for how it should be done differently.

If you answer "yes" please comment on whether you think those shields will still be used in PVP (CP, no-CP, Battlegrounds etc) and endgame PVE (vet DLC dungeons and vet HM trials), and how you expect magicka characters (not just sorcs, but especially sorcs) can adapt for that content.

Let's keep this civilized and respectful.

VaranisArano

I think shields needed an adjustment in PVP because of shield-stacking, and possibly PVE, but I don't think this was the best way to do it.

I also think ZOS is going to do what they want, regardless of what I think.

UrQuan

No, and I mostly play PVE

In my opinion no defensive ability should ever have a cast time. For offensive abilities a cast time can be fine if the benefits of the ability are good enough that it's worth slotting on your bar, despite the fact that you have to be careful in picking and choosing when to use it. For a defensive ability you often don't have the luxury of waiting until a good time to choose to use it. You either use it and get killed during the cast time, or don't use it and get killed because you didn't use it. That means that a defensive ability with a cast time is worthless to slot on your bar, and should be replaced with something else.

Shield stacking and/or spamming probably does need a nerf, but this is the worst possible way to do that. Some options that I think would be better include:

• Some form of fatigue system that increases cost if re-cast within a certain span of time.
• Some sort of major/minor buff, where a shield is categorized as either major or minor, so that 2 major shields don't stack etc.
• If a second shield is cast while already shielded it over-writes the existing shield if it is larger than the remaining shield strength (and does nothing if it is not).

My main concern with the 1 second cast time is the effect it will have on trials groups trying to progress to doing various vet HMs, CR+3, etc. Considering that there are so many trials mechanics that will one-shot you, and that don't give you 1 second to prepare (or that kill the shield right away and force you to immediately recast or be one-shotted), which magicka DPS don't have many viable tools to deal with... I see a 1 second cast time as being incredibly detrimental to the endgame PVE community. The absolute top PVE players will be able to adapt with some difficulty, but players trying to get to that level won't, and the endgame community will dwindle.

Lord_Eomer

No, and I play an even mix of PVP and PVE

UrQuan wrote: »

As per the thread title.

If you answer "no" please comment on whether you think those shields needed to be nerfed in the first place, and if so please offer suggestion(s) for how it should be done differently.

If you answer "yes" please comment on whether you think those shields will still be used in PVP (CP, no-CP, Battlegrounds etc) and endgame PVE (vet DLC dungeons and vet HM trials), and how you expect magicka characters (not just sorcs, but especially sorcs) can adapt for that content.

Let's keep this civilized and respectful.

We may have many poll but ZOS never care about customers voice!

DeathStalker

No, and I play an even mix of PVP and PVE

No. Terrible Idea. Make it so shields don't stack or increase the cost with every cast of shields within a cooldown period.

UrQuan

No, and I mostly play PVE

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

As per the thread title.

If you answer "no" please comment on whether you think those shields needed to be nerfed in the first place, and if so please offer suggestion(s) for how it should be done differently.

If you answer "yes" please comment on whether you think those shields will still be used in PVP (CP, no-CP, Battlegrounds etc) and endgame PVE (vet DLC dungeons and vet HM trials), and how you expect magicka characters (not just sorcs, but especially sorcs) can adapt for that content.

Let's keep this civilized and respectful.

We may have many pools but ZOS never care about customers voice!

I've tried to make this one as neutral and unbiased as possible in the hopes that @ZOS_RobGarrett will take the feedback from it seriously.

Lord_Eomer

No, and I play an even mix of PVP and PVE

DeathStalker wrote: »

No. Terrible Idea. Make it so shields don't stack or increase the cost with every cast of shields within a cooldown period.

Shield stacking is issue but increasingly cost is not a solution!

Anyway in current state only N00B may use this useless skill!

bardx86

No, and I mostly play PVP

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

DeathStalker wrote: »

No. Terrible Idea. Make it so shields don't stack or increase the cost with every cast of shields within a cooldown period.

Shield stacking is issue but increasingly cost is not a solution!

Anyway in current state only N00B may use this useless skill!

Cost increase on any skill is a stupid idea. Why are you trying to penalize someone trying to stay alive. Spamming shield already has a built in higher cost as its proactive and normally you are over paying for the defense.

AsNied

No, and I play an even mix of PVP and PVE

No, and F*** NO, when you have only one def ability.

Kolache

UrQuan wrote: »

I've tried to make this one as neutral and unbiased as possible in the hopes that @ZOS_RobGarrett will take the feedback from it seriously.

Nobody wants their character to be nerfed.
Nobody wants their friend's character to be nerfed.
Some people will admit that they'd rather you were nerfed in PvP but most won't (especially when polls show who voted for which options).

There you go. Every nerf popularity poll since ever through forever.

Takes-No-Prisoner

No, and I mostly play PVP

I vote no, only based on the current state of how Magic Toons behave at the moment of writing this post. As a whole, there are a combination of problems that need addressing;

1. Everything else in the game behaves and functions around this notion of there being fast paced action, LA Magic toons relying on Shields are put into a disadvantage situation if they press the Shield button.

2. Heavy Armor is not as attractive for toons for classes like MagNB and MagSorc in PvP. PvE? They're not attractive here either due to loss of DPS. HA stats are best reserved for the Tank role.

3. MagSorc -- the class as a baseline, only really seems to shine well in LA in PvP. This is too polarizing for build specs for PvP. The Shield nerf, obviously is seen as super punishing to these people.


There are a couple of ways to fix this outcome either;

A. Have more HA sets be attractive to MagNB and MagSorc specs for PvP. MagDK and MagTemplar have been doing this song and dance for a long time now, but their class toolsets allow them to run HA. This way, these Magic toons, if they wanna run Shields, will get more mileage out of it.

B. MagSorc needs it's skill lines and passives readjusted so they can more comfortably fill the holy trinity roles in PvE, while still being viable in all 3 armor weights for PvP. TBF, MagSorc has been needing this change for a very long time.

C. There is really no reason to run LA in PvP with there being such a small chance to survive enemy encounters. So LA needs to help the survivability of the LA wearer. Whether it is reducing the cast time of Shields or just something. But it certainly is not very attractive for Murkmire.

These are just one persons thoughts. I do agree there needed to be a change to Shields, but now MagSorcs need additional help to keep the class as a whole viable for PvP and PvE.

Arthalion1

No, and I mostly play PVP

Let's keep in mind that shields are already being nerfed. Shields will now take crit damage. This will involve a rebuild for a lot of players, who will need to switch their armor to impenetrable. Even with impenetrable, shields are going to be a lot weaker.

The addition of a 1s cast time is nuts and will make shields unusable. I can't comprehend why ZOS can never find middle ground. They always insist on nerfing things into the ground... then improving them again a few months later.

One thing at a time, let's see the crit change. If shields are still too strong, then consider a change. In this regard, the cost increase like dodge roll is the solution as you won't be able to stack for long and will have to think more about defence/offence.

For the record, I currently main a stamina nb, but do and have played all classes.

Universe

No, and I play an even mix of PVP and PVE

1 second cast time for Annulment & Conjured Ward is a terrible change.
I have suggested for how to make shields more balanced in the following discussion:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/436390/a-possible-and-harmless-way-for-making-shields-stacking-more-balanced-in-pvp#latest

Quote:
"Shields Fatigue - While in PVP area you may receive the following:
"Shields fatigue": While shield stacking is applied, there is 10% chance to receive shields fatigue for 4 seconds.
While this debuff is active a player can bash the player who have this debuff and stun him for 3 seconds.
This also applies minor defile to the stunned player for 6 seconds, reducing his healing taken by 15%.

*This will apply a debuff that potentially will result in the shield stacker being stunned after some time.
The shield stacking in PVP will be a bit less powerful while damage shields won't be nerfed in PVE.
There will be a special sign above the player who has this debuff, so the opponent will know when it is the right time to bash.
A shield with bash/sword icon, the sign will be above the player very much like the ability to detect invisible enemies sign."

usmcjdking

Conjured Wards animation is god awful.

The cast time doesn't bother me, even the resistance/crit debuff (or buff in some instances) doesn't bother me.

The inability for mag to properly defend itself from stam dots is what bothers me most. The inability to block cast shields is going to lead me (loyal dizzy spammer) into spamming dizzy until I win.

Shields are absolutely awful ATM.

Kingslayer513

No, and I play an even mix of PVP and PVE

I think shields needed to be tweaked, not gutted and killed. I was in favor of simply removing shield stacking, possibly through a major/minor shield system.

Annulment should be a major shield, Conjured ward should be a major shield with a 30% increase to its strength. Other classes have built in defense skills, Sorcs merely have shields. It makes sense that sorcs should have access to a bigger shield, but you can't stack it with Annulment. With the addition of crits on shields, a single shield would be pretty balanced IMO.

Cast times on shields make no sense at all though. I'll likely be shelving several characters (or even taking a break from the game) if the cast time addition goes live.

UrQuan

No, and I mostly play PVE

Arthalion1 wrote: »

For the record, I currently main a stamina nb, but do and have played all classes.

Oh yeah, probably a good idea to mention what classes we play...

I play all classes, both magicka & stamina, but my main is a DK tank. The 1 second cast time doesn't directly impact my main in the slightest, but indirectly it sure does because there will be so many more deaths to one-shot mechanics in vet trials, so I'll be dealing with a lot more wipes and near-wipes.

It also means that I'll no longer be able to solo group dungeons on my magicka sorcs (I can only solo group dungeons on pet builds that rely heavily on shields), but that's not an actual problem. Other nerfs to shields would likely have the same effect, and it's OK for me to not be able to solo group dungeons.

JadonSky

No, and I play an even mix of PVP and PVE

I don't think any defense should have a cast time. Adding a cast time to Harden Ward would be like adding a cast time to NB Cloak or Templar Breath of Life. If they are trying to prevent shield stacking then why not make Harden ward not stack with other shields.

Example you cast harden ward > cast light armor shield > harden ward is negated and light armor shield takes it's place. Only shields that can stack with it are those provided by other players (such as healing ward or obsidian shield).

or

Make shields like bolt escape where each cast cost more magic. Only reason I would not like this change as much from a sorc perspective is they can barley sustain as is.

Stigant

No, and I play an even mix of PVP and PVE

Make the shields major/minor buff, including the sets and ultimates that give them to tune down shield stacking, keep the change with critable and resistances and test that.

Remove the cast time on ward and annulment and make both major ward that overwrite/refreshes itself when recast ...

I may be wrong but this seems like much better way how to adjust shields and put them In line with other consolidated buffs.

AhPook_Is_Here

No, and I mostly play PVE

From my POV as mainly a DK player who will benefit from these changes; it may be one of the worst ideas I have ever seen in this game.

jaws343

No, and I play an even mix of PVP and PVE

In PVP, shield stacking was never a valid concern. A player keeping up 3 shields constantly is doing zero damage against a competent PVPer, because they are refreshing the shields almost immediately due to incoming damage. If you aren't able to pressure a shield stacker enough to kill them, they are either running a troll build that is doing zero damage to you or you or your build are not as good as you think you are.

In PVE, shields were never the reason healers are becoming irrelevant in 4-man content. One shot mechanics are the reason healers are unnecessary. And having a healer in your party means one shot mechanics have a higher up-time since fights take longer. If they really wanted to make healers relevant in that content, they would stop adding one shot mechanics and instead add damage that requires a healer to mitigate.

Trinity_Is_My_Name

No, and I mostly play PVE

No. Defensive abilities should never have a cast time. If shield stacking is a problem then make it so only one shield can be cast. If another shield is cast then the first shield should be removed instantly. Crit on shields in PVP plus no shield stacking is enough I.M.O.

boombazookajd

No, and I mostly play PVE

Good thing my battle rattle in Afghanistan didn't have a cast time.

RedRook

No. Cast times suck - especially in PVP - and putting them on shields is a terrible idea.

But I can't pick any of your poll options; at this point I'm just an interested visitor. Being here during a PTS cycle just reminds me how frustrating this game's development arc has become. It's a shame.

Circuitous

No, and I mostly play PVE

I think the cast time on shields is an awful decision as it stands now.

If shields absolutely must have a cast time, I feel they need to be made much stronger to compensate.

For example, if the shield took a second to cast, but was expensive to cast, didn't stack with other shields, was worth 20-30k health or more, and lasted for 30 seconds, you could intelligently predict incoming damage in PvE or PvP and be thoroughly protected, rather than a red smear on the ground.

The slight clunkiness of the cast time wouldn't be such an issue, because you wouldn't be weaving it as part of your rotation every 9 seconds. Fire and forget, at least for a little while.

But the truth of the matter is that damage shields and our reliance on them are part of a bigger issue with how PvE and PvP work, and cast times on shields feel like a band-aid that isn't even being put over the actual wound. The shield changes should be reverted, and only revisited once other, far more serious issues with balance are addressed.

Oh, and for the record: I main a Templar Healer and play PvE almost exclusively. Shields are not the reason I feel unwanted in endgame.

Akimbro

No, and I play an even mix of PVP and PVE

If shields have a cast time then shouldn't cloak..?

VaranisArano

Akimbro wrote: »

If shields have a cast time then shouldn't cloak..?

If shields have a cast time then shouldn't [insert skill here] have one too?

Healing Ward
Igneous Shield
Cloak
Bone Shield
Vigor
Block
Probably a few I'm missing, because there's been a bunch people bring up.

I mean, we can play the nerf game all day, but in the end its ZOS that keeps the score.

rampant_cake

No, and I mostly play PVE

I play on console in Oceania with high ping (280ms+) and wards are already not effectively an instant cast.

There's a reason why no one uses Crystal Blast even after its multiple buffs and it's just that cast times are not fun. Do I believe that wards were slightly over-performing in PvE? Sure, however this is a terrible way to deal with it, I would have rather taken a 30% shield capacity nerf than this.

It's hard to l2p when you successfully dodge mechanics and take the damage anyways, this is the first time I've actually been really annoyed about a nerf and I've been playing since PC launch.

fr33r4ng3r

No, and I mostly play PVE

As a MagSorc, playing through vHRC on live this weekend, I payed close attention to my defensive play during starfall. For those not familiar you have to stand still and block/shield/heal through the damage because if you move you risk overlapping with your teammates and dying immediately (and killing them in the process).

I use empowered ward for the minor intellect team buff (bringing something unique to the group). During starfall I need to block cast ward on a cycle of once every second. Basically every tick of starfall eats the entire shield so I recast right after it hits. Timing is super important here. If I don't cast ward and the springs healing tick happens a moment before starfall hits then my health drops precariously. Without a subsequent shield I would die less than a second later. There is a rhythm to this and while I wouldn't call it the epitome of skillful play, sub-second timing is required.

The one second cast time on shields means I can't even cast it before I'm hit with the first starfall tick, and without block up (because I'm channeling) I'll be dead immediately. I don't see much point in slotting ward anymore. I honestly have no idea how to build for incoming damage like this on a sorc in light armor (and this is tame compared with some other trials). I can't compete with MagBlades for damage now, and I'll have to sacrifice even more damage so I'm not dead all the time.

#FeelsTerribad.

S'yn

No, and I play an even mix of PVP and PVE

Since so much conte9is built around d the assumption that players will be using instant cadt shields, sticking with this change means reworking the mechanics in nearly every dungeon and trial to make them survivable. Zos was irritated that shields worked too well, so they started making all these super annoying one shot mechanics. These in turn made healers useless, as healers can't heal one shots. Now you want to essentially take shields out of the equation completely with this change. In my estimation, this is tantamount to the developers expecting all players to perform flawless dungeon and trials runs, which is simply not reality for 99% of us.

If this change goes live it will break the game. For once, listen yo you community. There have been some great suggestions to deal with shield stacking. A cast time is as good of an idea as a burlap and constantina wire thong. You can do, but don't expect ANYONE to keep supporting you if you implement it.

Narvuntien

No, and I play an even mix of PVP and PVE

1 second is too long.

I would accept a cast time but 1 second is a lonnnng time in this game.

ruikkarikun

No, and I play an even mix of PVP and PVE

Remove cast time. This game is about instant cast abilities.