High latency at akamai.com

Korax

Yup... I've been trying (from South Africa to EU server) since September to play this game, but since start November I just gave up trying. Trying to load a character feels like playing a lottery. So I haven't tried playing since I think the 3rd November. As long as this thread stays alive I won't be trying to login and I won't be buying a single chapter upgrade or a single Crown.

I was hoping to buy a ton of outstanding DLCs on my account, but from the looks of things I'd rather be hitting Steam and Blizzard xmas specials instead. At least I can play those over the holidays with no issues.

Korax

"The Elder Scrolls Online v4.2.11 includes additional improvements for the Mac game client, in addition to fixing a UI issue where it appeared as though skills were not leveling up and the drop rate for the Silver Dawn Motif. If you having lag problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 megabytes and this patch is one."

Response from ZOS ?!

Defilted

It would be nice to get someone from ZOS to at least acknowledge they have or are in the process of looking into this. Just keep putting the information down here and I would think at some point we will get their attention.

lurkuld

Still not fixed. Disappointing display. Fix it.

Defilted

Fixed would be a dream for a lot of people. Seeing just a response from ZOS would be a good start.

crazyranger

lurkuld wrote: »

Still not fixed. Disappointing display. Fix it.

Atreidus wrote: »

Hi. At DSL 100k (germany) i had got a 32er ping max. For sure akami is a bottleneck. But if it helps vs ddos: Why not? Cisco etc. are expensiver i guess.

400er ping etc. is not good for sure. Maybe some providers just are slow.

A company that has had it's ups and downs for 4 years STILL giving us cut-rate service even ESO+.

-- Game patches are for the most part a hot mess that are poorly implemented and tested. most regurgitating older bugs.

-- User interface foundations based around the console platforms . Barely any PC optimizations. The ADD-ons community providing the only light to this tunnel.

-- Fix the stupid "running on the back of your mount" bug. That in itself speaks volumes to ZOS's lack of attention to detail unless it directly involves the crown store.

Elsonso

crazyranger wrote: »

-- Fix the stupid "running on the back of your mount" bug. That in itself speaks volumes to ZOS's lack of attention to detail unless it directly involves the crown store.

I figure that they are going to leave that bug, since it is somewhat amusing.

Korax

running on your mount is one thing... but not getting your running to "stick" is what gets old, even after all this time.

Atreidus

crazyranger wrote: »

lurkuld wrote: »

Still not fixed. Disappointing display. Fix it.

Atreidus wrote: »

Hi. At DSL 100k (germany) i had got a 32er ping max. For sure akami is a bottleneck. But if it helps vs ddos: Why not? Cisco etc. are expensiver i guess.

400er ping etc. is not good for sure. Maybe some providers just are slow.

A company that has had it's ups and downs for 4 years STILL giving us cut-rate service even ESO+.

-- Game patches are for the most part a hot mess that are poorly implemented and tested. most regurgitating older bugs.

-- User interface foundations based around the console platforms . Barely any PC optimizations. The ADD-ons community providing the only light to this tunnel.

-- Fix the stupid "running on the back of your mount" bug. That in itself speaks volumes to ZOS's lack of attention to detail unless it directly involves the crown store.

How about to open our inventory( the fastest way to gettig the user interface bar[pc/mac]) and click this "?"
at the top right.
Send feedback or bug reports there or request assistance ingame etc.

This had fixed so much . Also make detailed reports about your problems. since i havent gotten this old bug which seems to be lag - or broken data - caused.

Click the is small cog wheel at the lower left windows top in your launcher and choose a file scan/repair please. It shall download something at the end.

ps.: They do care. The latest mini - patch was about the ultra - settigs - optimisation.
Also tons of other bugs had been fixed fast. Like this dungeon finder bug, that event exploit(about this tradable style - books and ah dumping) etc.

Gina already had apologized for her comment. I dont know why some cant even getting a joke right.

The 1st time after i had gotten back to the game the german community had told me"no one cares and it never will be fixed. It is broken sice an eternity.".
Then i had figured out, that there was/is an comunication - problem and/or the players are never reporting it.

So never give up and even if it is a small support - thread: Do your part to making the game better (for you).

RinaldoGandolphi

I know this may not be what folks want to hear, but....

with any DDOS scrubbing service, your going to have a certain amount of overhead (in this case latency)

Think about it, it works like this in simple terms:

1. Traffic destined for ZOS Servers
2. Passes though Akamai DDOS Scrubbing Center
3. While in scrubbing center, Source IP's are checked against a real-time list of known malicious and offending IP's, if on list traffic is redirected.
4. Traffic is inspected at Layer 7 to ensure traffic is not carrying exploits or attempting to leverage software vulnerabilities
5. If traffic checks out as ok, it is then allow to pass to ZOS servers

That is A LOT to do in real time, the fact it is able to do this and still have a sub 400ms response is actually a technical marvel in itself.

I think ZOS thinking was "better to have the service up and deal with some overhead using a scrubbing service, than to be down half the time due to constant DDOS issues"

It sucks folks are impacted by it, lately even I have been impacted by it from time to time. It was certainly a poor choice to implement a DDOs scrubbing service for a online game that has real time combat aspects, but I don't think there was any other option for them. Some DDOS attacks are so large in magnitude that a scrubbing service is the best option that makes sense.

Regardless of what service they use, no one will be happy with scrubbing services for this type of game.

I get it, ZOS is in a tough spot, I have just curtailed how much I play in response. Its all I can do.

Considering everything Akamai is doing to traffic as it passes though, its incredible they can keep latency acceptable. (the latency numbers we are seeing with ESO would be perfectly acceptable for web sites, online file sharing services, online video, etc)

I don't think scrubbing services were really meant for online games due to them being more sensitive to latency then most other internet and network applications, but i really think ZOS had no other choice due to the sheer size and frequency of the attacks they were experiencing...its better to be online 24/7 at 70% capacity than to be at 100% capacity but offline 50% of the time.

MrGarlic

DDoS protection:

Well I suppose if you think it is acceptable to go from a stable 220ms ping to an unstable 350ms ping with random +999s as well. Then good for you.

If you find it acceptable to have your data routed through dodgy China when it previously went nowhere near it, then fine, good for you.

If you are fine with difficulty logging on because of the random +999 hitting you at that moment, then fine, good for you.

But I am not OK with that.

I have voted with my wallet, as have many others.

Yvarhna

After only resubbing this week and wondering wtf was going on with such bad lag when last year I had very little issues this thread has answered that.

I'm guessing every single New Zealand player is having big lag issues playing this game at the moment, and many from Australia, and you know what? I'm tired of it. I'm tired of us Oceanic players constantly getting the short end of the stick when it comes to online gaming. We pay just as everyone else does, but because we are at the bottom of the pacific, we tend to not be an priority.

Zos....please look at this issue for us, because for many of us we love this game and want to keep playing, but with the way it is right now it has become extremely un-fun.

Surely something can be done with how we are routed....I mean why are we going through China??

You need to care for all your players not just a few. Those of us oceanic players as just as important and pay just like everyone else. Is it unreasonable that we ask for the ability to be able to play this game like everyone else? We're not asking for super smooth no lag game play, because we know that lag will always be an issue for us, but dealing with erratic pings and 999+ on a constant basis is not tolerable and it's unfair. Surely there is SOMETHING that you can do to help lessen that......because should not everyone be able to enjoy playing this game?

At the very least, it would be nice to have some kind of acknowledgement that you are aware there is a problem for us.

RinaldoGandolphi

MrGarlic wrote: »

DDoS protection:

Well I suppose if you think it is acceptable to go from a stable 220ms ping to an unstable 350ms ping with random +999s as well. Then good for you.

If you find it acceptable to have your data routed through dodgy China when it previously went nowhere near it, then fine, good for you.

If you are fine with difficulty logging on because of the random +999 hitting you at that moment, then fine, good for you.

But I am not OK with that.

I have voted with my wallet, as have many others.

Please understand, I am not saying its OK at all.

As i said, even I have had periods(still do) where this scrubbing service has made me unable to play the game for days at a time due to fluctuating network response.

We do know ZOS was suffering from some DDOS in the last year or so. They had to be pretty large in scale in order for them to resort to a scrubbing service(considering they are probably paying a lot of money for this service as it isn't cheap,)and these attacks were causing them some big time problems.

In the meantime we may be stuck with this service for now. Hopefully a better solution is found moving forward. I too turned off auto-renew on my sub, since i have periods where I can't play the game enjoyably due to fluctuating network response due to this service.

I feel folks pain on this one. I hope another solution is found soon.

Aquatorch

Why won't you address this ZoS? Please provide a solution to those of us who are overseas and play on the NA server.

Akamai has changed something recently and they're forcing me to route through Hong Kong. I am currently in the Middle East and I never went through HK until about two-three months ago. This is NOT my ISP routing me this way because the other programs that I use which connect to the US go through Germany.

Elsonso

Aquatorch wrote: »

Why won't you address this ZoS? Please provide a solution to those of us who are overseas and play on the NA server.

Akamai has changed something recently and they're forcing me to route through Hong Kong. I am currently in the Middle East and I never went through HK until about two-three months ago. This is NOT my ISP routing me this way because the other programs that I use which connect to the US go through Germany.

If I had to guess, I would say that there is nothing for ZOS to do.

If it is routing through Hong Kong, it is likely because that is the least congested way to go. Things are pretty busy in France, Germany, and the UK right now.

NoMoreChillies

so this thread started sept, and here it is now dec and no solution from ZOS.

SHAME

ON

YOU

stop advertising the game in OC, dont visit here again ever and shove your customer service where the sun doesnt shine.

lurkuld

Checking in. @ZOS_BillE @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Any type of communication on this would be super.

Thanks

For Daggerfall!

Korax

You see, ZOS won't answer acknowledge this seeing when you read through this thread we already know what's going on here... and know we on this thread won't take kindly to the BOT type support answers... we want REAL answers, REAL solutions.

I won't pay another dime for anything as long as I can't reliably play this game and not for as long as this thread is alive.

dave011

Korax wrote: »

You see, ZOS won't answer acknowledge this seeing when you read through this thread we already know what's going on here... and know we on this thread won't take kindly to the BOT type support answers... we want REAL answers, REAL solutions.

I won't pay another dime for anything as long as I can't reliably play this game and not for as long as this thread is alive.

As much as I wont answers to this @ZOS_GinaBruno may not be allowed to answer them and yes I did see the gentile hint in the patch notes a few weeks ago that you know.

If you having lag problems I feel bad for you son,

from patch notes of https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/448905/pc-mac-patch-notes-v4-2-11#latest

I have been playing since 2014 and have no plans to stop but I can only do crafting writs for so long as the rest is very hard to play and I play this game for fun not stress

PLEASE FIND A WAY TO REDUCE THE HUGE PING SPIKES. The high ping I can handle but the huge spikes NO.

Suddwrath

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_BillE @ZOS_SarahHecker

Even a random gif would suffice at this point.

Or just anything, really.

Elsonso

Might be too late. Gina and Jessica might already be gone on holiday.

You might have better luck asking Akamai, to be honest. That is likely the same place ZOS has to go to get answers, and I can't imagine that ZOS has not already asked. The silence from ZOS just says to me that they don't want to pass along what they have learned. (or cannot) With Akamai, you will probably get a response. Not immediately, but I bet they do respond. They will probably send you an email back telling you to contact ZOS. Then again, they might collect information from you and add it to a pile of work to be looked at.

Anyway, Prolific Technologies and Akamai Technologies both have contact forms or support email on their respective websites.

In related news, the FBI recently shut down 15 bot-for-hire systems that allowed anyone to "stress test" (DDoS) some internet server with nothing more than a credit card. Those services certainly added to what Akamai has to deal with, but my guess is that they were a drop of water in the ocean. Still, cannot have hurt to shut them down.

Defilted

lordrichter wrote: »

Might be too late. Gina and Jessica might already be gone on holiday.

You might have better luck asking Akamai, to be honest. That is likely the same place ZOS has to go to get answers, and I can't imagine that ZOS has not already asked. The silence from ZOS just says to me that they don't want to pass along what they have learned. (or cannot) With Akamai, you will probably get a response. Not immediately, but I bet they do respond. They will probably send you an email back telling you to contact ZOS. Then again, they might collect information from you and add it to a pile of work to be looked at.

Anyway, Prolific Technologies and Akamai Technologies both have contact forms or support email on their respective websites.

In related news, the FBI recently shut down 15 bot-for-hire systems that allowed anyone to "stress test" (DDoS) some internet server with nothing more than a credit card. Those services certainly added to what Akamai has to deal with, but my guess is that they were a drop of water in the ocean. Still, cannot have hurt to shut them down.

The original person who started this thread had reached to Akamai and was told that on ZOS can get answers as they are Akamai customer. It is the reason that person cam here and started the thread to get ZOS to take action. I believe he opened a support ticket as well

Elsonso

Defilted wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Might be too late. Gina and Jessica might already be gone on holiday.

You might have better luck asking Akamai, to be honest. That is likely the same place ZOS has to go to get answers, and I can't imagine that ZOS has not already asked. The silence from ZOS just says to me that they don't want to pass along what they have learned. (or cannot) With Akamai, you will probably get a response. Not immediately, but I bet they do respond. They will probably send you an email back telling you to contact ZOS. Then again, they might collect information from you and add it to a pile of work to be looked at.

Anyway, Prolific Technologies and Akamai Technologies both have contact forms or support email on their respective websites.

In related news, the FBI recently shut down 15 bot-for-hire systems that allowed anyone to "stress test" (DDoS) some internet server with nothing more than a credit card. Those services certainly added to what Akamai has to deal with, but my guess is that they were a drop of water in the ocean. Still, cannot have hurt to shut them down.

The original person who started this thread had reached to Akamai and was told that on ZOS can get answers as they are Akamai customer. It is the reason that person cam here and started the thread to get ZOS to take action. I believe he opened a support ticket as well

Ahh, good to know. This has been going on for so long that I have long since forgotten the beginning, anyway.

ZOS has apparently decided that this is not an issue they wish to comment on. ZOS has probably chatted with Akamai about this. I can't imagine they would not have taken that small step in all this time. Silence is hardly an earth shaking surprise, I know.

Kiwi

I cant stay connected to the game for ore than 10 minutes lately
no way its my connection my speed is in the 100s and its only this game, never anything else
I did like this game and when it was going i got great performance on max settings
just these *** servers and the lack of acknowledgement is testament to how little the player base matters to them
theres no excuse for ignoring legitimate issues

Suddwrath

What I don't understand is how there has been zero communication from ZOS on this.

"We're looking into this"
"Thank you for bringing this to our attention. We will let you know if there are any updates"
"Unfortunately, we are not able to publicly discuss this specific issue. However, we would like to reassure you that we are aware of it"

Not a single peep. That's what makes it so strange.

MrGarlic

lordrichter wrote: »

<SNIP>
With Akamai, you will probably get a response. Not immediately, but I bet they do respond. They will probably send you an email back telling you to contact ZOS. Then again, they might collect information from you and add it to a pile of work to be looked at.
<SNIP>

Here is the reply I got from Akamai in October regarding this issue, which I might remind everyone has been ongoing for THREE months now.

We understand your concern. Could you please raise this concern with Akamai's customer whose services your customer is using, they would in turn raise a case with Akamai and have this investigated.

We are unable to accept this request due to compliance policy. As per the policy, we are to take request coming from direct customers of Akamai alone.

If you'd like to investigate more, please bring this up with our customer and they'd take this further with us.

So there you go. Akamai will only discuss this with ZOS, but only if ZOS raises the issue with them.

However as my ZOS support ticket went beyond first-level, all I got back from them was a patronising response that the problem is my ISP. Which is BS frankly as my ISP does not control where international data travels to Akamai's Prolexic scrubbers are located. Not even their DNS server can fix that as Akamai is spoofing ZOS ip addresses to collect data requests in order to direct to the nearest Akamai presence, which for me is in Hong Kong as it is 1000 klms closer than Akamai California.

Only ZOS in consultation with Akamai can fix this problem but they are clearly either unable or unwilling to do anything about it. Not even willing to admit there is a problem to those affected

ZOS is losing customers over this but clearly not enough for them to take any interest or allocate resources into fixing it.

The risk of DDoS attacks and damage that occurs as a consequence not doubt outweighs the loss of a few customers outside North America or Europe

Don't expect his to be resolved any time soon, if at all.

Korax

I think most here don't expect them to share any details... it doesn't take anything away to at least acknowledge that there is an issue here. But from my point of view, reading news posts, reading the forums, reading patch notes etc. It just seems as if ZOS is pretending as if this does not exist at all.

For me lag spikes would be an improvement. I can't get any of my characters loaded AT ALL. Loading a character would be like playing dice. And this has been going on for 3 months already!

Or better said in business terms: No play for the whole of Q4, and what does ZOS do? Go on vacation. Like this issue is not important to get sorted out for a whole of Q4!

How come is it then that ALL other online MMOs I have works just fine??
Sorry to say but this is squarely a ZOS issue from where I stand.

I couldn't play this game since September. And I haven't payed for anything with RLM since, because I'm not buying content that I know I can't access.

Kiwi

yep since i have not been able to stay connected to this game for longer than about 10 mins at a time sine early yesterday ive been playing a couple of other online mmos without any problems at all

24+ hours later, been playing another mmo all day without any problems but i still cant stay connected to eso servers for more than a few minutes

worst part is i bought the new expansion and i cant even play it at all
what a waste of money

Elsonso

SaltySudd wrote: »

What I don't understand is how there has been zero communication from ZOS on this.

"We're looking into this"
"Thank you for bringing this to our attention. We will let you know if there are any updates"
"Unfortunately, we are not able to publicly discuss this specific issue. However, we would like to reassure you that we are aware of it"

Not a single peep. That's what makes it so strange.

Sigh. Yeah. It's not like any of those responses would cause unimaginable pain to the writer.

ZOS confuses the heck out of me on this whole lack of communications thing.

Lelldorano

So I just tried out mudfish VPN to see if it would make any difference. Went from a 300+ ping with horrible spikes to 220-250 and no spikes! This is connecting from NZ on spark fibre. You get some free credit when signing up so don't have to pay anything to try it.

The fact a VPN works like this proves that it isn't our fault, right ?