Overcome, adapt, and try to be fluid... (Current live Sorc PVP build for upcoming shield changes)

leepalmer95

katorga wrote: »

Hardened ward and Annulment/Harness are essentially useless in pvp and pve now, not worth the slot.

Healing ward got nerfed too, no upfront heal, and since it can't hide behind the other shields 102% of remaining shield strength will be ZERO. No point in casting that one either.

So the choice is that stam build are you going to do? If you want a little of the old mag sorc vibe, run Pelinal's backbar for mages wrath.

Healing ward got overbuffed for anyone in heavy armour i'd say.

Usually classes like mag dk's/ mag templars are in heavy and an instant 15k shield while they have 25-30k resists is likely a buff and will give them a lot of time to heal to full before it gets taken off.

Priyasekarssk

Savos_Saren wrote: »

So, here we have a build that is Destro/Resto. It consists of Ice Heart (crits for heals, and a 9k damage shield), Innate Axiom (adds 400 damage to all class abilities), and Netch's Touch (400 spell damage to shock). This was taken in Rawl-ka... so remember to add 5,000 health in Cyrodiil and since Innate and Netch don't show up on your spell damage- remember to add 800 spell damage to your shock-based class abilities. The build is 5l/1m/1h consisting of two protective rings.

So, you can get instant cast Healing Ward from Resto, 4500 damage shield from Ice Heart, 1354 shield from Reinforced (CP passive), and a 2500 damage shield from slotting Time Stop (which I will do when I level my Psijic skill line. Remember, all of these shields are instant. No cast time.

Since it's hard to tell how much damage you can do without seeing the effects of Innate and Netch- I'll show you my Power Overload.



Now, I realize that it will be taking a slight nerf as well- but my CP will also increase. So, I'll have to adjust it accordingly. I'm also VERY interested in utilizing Spell Strategist instead of Netch. I'll have to test it out, though. Let me know what you think.

You are going to compete this garbage build with my 7K weapon damage stamblade.Forget assasin / incap.
Cant even survive 2 surprise attacks. Good luck!!!

PickleRick

@leepalmer95 you’re kidding yourself if you think healing ward is buffed. It lost the upfront heal so the additional damage it will take from execute scaling while you cast another ability to heal out of execute is going to result in healing ward being really poor and arguably a lot worse than ward ally. Your shield will melt almost instantly from the execute damage so it has to be paired with HoTs and you can’t prrotect it with a second shield so you won’t get much of a heal from it.

1 Mage’s Wrath will delete your ward, 1 Reverse Slice, 1 Impale, any of that and your shield is deleted, now do you cast another expensive ward or do you cast a heal?

Cronopoly

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

You are going to compete this garbage build with my 7K weapon damage stamblade.Forget assasin / incap.
Cant even survive 2 surprise attacks. Good luck!!!

That's basically what EVERY PVP Light Amor wearer including Sorc see's now should this go live. We see NO other outcome as it's not presented to us. We know what has killed us in PVP and what does not, going back to Beta, Dark Brotherhood (The begginging of the Stamination) and the present. So far yet, there is no, "Oh use this playstyle as a well thought out alternative while wearing PAPER."

So far what I see is Light Armor, DO NOT go to PVP at all, and in PVE Backbar Resto EVERYONE Magicka, DPS be damned or get 1 shot by the mechanics.

Juju_beans

When Alcast comes out with a new viable build you'll all go flocking to the new meta and be happy clams again.
You won't attack him and his suggestions like you did the OP in this thread.

Xsorus

leepalmer95 wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Hardened ward and Annulment/Harness are essentially useless in pvp and pve now, not worth the slot.

Healing ward got nerfed too, no upfront heal, and since it can't hide behind the other shields 102% of remaining shield strength will be ZERO. No point in casting that one either.

So the choice is that stam build are you going to do? If you want a little of the old mag sorc vibe, run Pelinal's backbar for mages wrath.

Healing ward got overbuffed for anyone in heavy armour i'd say.

Usually classes like mag dk's/ mag templars are in heavy and an instant 15k shield while they have 25-30k resists is likely a buff and will give them a lot of time to heal to full before it gets taken off.

You realize the build I posted has 25k+ resist in 5 light armor before bloodspawn right?

Xsorus

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=84447

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=88161

This is how you can get fairly close, You can trade out bloodspawn and run something similar to live...One's got more damage and the other has more Mitigation.

No matter what you try to do sorc's are going to be even weaker that on live.

Even if you stack lots of armour, realistically you're going to be taking more dmg because of the crit changes unless you stack into armour heavily to get about the same.

But on live now shields are very weak open world cp and in bg's. I favour stamina builds a lot nowadays but i can say for certain that shields are weaker than heavy armour or dodge builds currently.

The change just straight up makes them even weaker by a lot, so no matter when you do to compensate for them you are going to have less sustain/ dmg and likely be more squishy.

Even running around on a 3k spell dmg, 50k magicka build in open world i cannot do anything vs half good players. I'm forced to be on the defensive the entire time while they melt my shields and i'm forced to cast them every 2s until they burst me. That is with 2 shields being instant.

Your giving up something to run those skills like that, mines, dark deal a cc that actually works against anyone blocking.
Clench is a bad cc, it's dodgeable just like rune cage yet doesn't work against anyone blocking so useless to try and kill a magplar.

It's also useless vs dk's/ warden so thats 40% of potential classes its bad against, not including just straight up being blocked by heavy s&b builds.

I’m sitting at 3700 crit resist that I could honestly make higher if I wanted to, it’s why I’m impregnable to counter crits on shields, I’m sitting at 25K+ resist before bloodspawn in again, might I remind you... in light armor.

And shields weak on open world cp? Are you joking? I get they’re weak on no cp... but cp? No my friend they are not.

And clench is bad cc with masters? It’s one of the most powerful options sorcs can go right now and you’re saying it’s bad?
Also why are you crying the build is missing skills? You just said get rid of some of those abilities and run more shields... those abilities I’m using are all pretty standard on sorcs right now esp if you don’t have the third bar. Would I love to use dark deal and mine? Yes... do you have room for them.. no

But hey continue to run your old builds instead of adapting

leepalmer95

Xsorus wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=84447

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=88161

This is how you can get fairly close, You can trade out bloodspawn and run something similar to live...One's got more damage and the other has more Mitigation.

No matter what you try to do sorc's are going to be even weaker that on live.

Even if you stack lots of armour, realistically you're going to be taking more dmg because of the crit changes unless you stack into armour heavily to get about the same.

But on live now shields are very weak open world cp and in bg's. I favour stamina builds a lot nowadays but i can say for certain that shields are weaker than heavy armour or dodge builds currently.

The change just straight up makes them even weaker by a lot, so no matter when you do to compensate for them you are going to have less sustain/ dmg and likely be more squishy.

Even running around on a 3k spell dmg, 50k magicka build in open world i cannot do anything vs half good players. I'm forced to be on the defensive the entire time while they melt my shields and i'm forced to cast them every 2s until they burst me. That is with 2 shields being instant.

Your giving up something to run those skills like that, mines, dark deal a cc that actually works against anyone blocking.
Clench is a bad cc, it's dodgeable just like rune cage yet doesn't work against anyone blocking so useless to try and kill a magplar.

It's also useless vs dk's/ warden so thats 40% of potential classes its bad against, not including just straight up being blocked by heavy s&b builds.

I’m sitting at 3700 crit resist that I could honestly make higher if I wanted to, it’s why I’m impregnable to counter crits on shields, I’m sitting at 25K+ resist before bloodspawn in again, might I remind you... in light armor.

And shields weak on open world cp? Are you joking? I get they’re weak on no cp... but cp? No my friend they are not.

And clench is bad cc with masters? It’s one of the most powerful options sorcs can go right now and you’re saying it’s bad?
Also why are you crying the build is missing skills? You just said get rid of some of those abilities and run more shields... those abilities I’m using are all pretty standard on sorcs right now esp if you don’t have the third bar. Would I love to use dark deal and mine? Yes... do you have room for them.. no

But hey continue to run your old builds instead of adapting

Continue trying to 'adapt' yet coming out far weaker and less dmg.

Yes clench is a bad cc, your cc is useless vs dk's, wardens and can be dodged and if you can't do anything to counter anyone blocking, just keep curse on them for that sweet 3k dmg every 4s you'll be doing with those stats.

Even with 3.7k crit resist that is 55% crit dmg reduction. My stam nb and stamplar run around 45-50% crit and have 82% crit dmg. So on average even with that crit resists you are going to be taking around 13% more dps than on live via crits.

So you do have 25k armour liek you said, even if you inflated it with cp and took it out of important cp's like the flat % reductions but ok.

Most pvp classes have around 9k pen in pvp, so really without bs you have around 16k armour which is 25% dmg reduction.

So yeah you'll be taking around 12% less dmg roughly than on life, congrats. But at what cost, you are not going to kill anyone with that setup. Your sustain is going to be lacking, your not using crushing shock so dk's/ wardens are going to laugh at you when the only thing you can do is curse them and even if they didn't use wings/ shimmer you won't have enough dmg anyway.


And yes shields in CP still suck open world, mag sorc is a class thats good at killing absolute noobs but pretty bad vs anything else. Even in cp if 2 stam builds decide to focus you and bleed you and start attacking you'll be on the defensive the entire time until they drop ults and you die. I favour stamina in open world, shields suck.

So what have you achieved? Gave up important skills, less sustain and less dmg to basically be as tanky as shields are now in open world, less so because you are only using 1. Made your build completely projectile based so 2/5 classes completely counter you.

Continue to say you're adapting when all your doing is accepting bad changes and throwing out subpar builds.

Savos_Saren

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=84447

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=88161

This is how you can get fairly close, You can trade out bloodspawn and run something similar to live...One's got more damage and the other has more Mitigation.

No matter what you try to do sorc's are going to be even weaker that on live.

Even if you stack lots of armour, realistically you're going to be taking more dmg because of the crit changes unless you stack into armour heavily to get about the same.

But on live now shields are very weak open world cp and in bg's. I favour stamina builds a lot nowadays but i can say for certain that shields are weaker than heavy armour or dodge builds currently.

The change just straight up makes them even weaker by a lot, so no matter when you do to compensate for them you are going to have less sustain/ dmg and likely be more squishy.

Even running around on a 3k spell dmg, 50k magicka build in open world i cannot do anything vs half good players. I'm forced to be on the defensive the entire time while they melt my shields and i'm forced to cast them every 2s until they burst me. That is with 2 shields being instant.

Your giving up something to run those skills like that, mines, dark deal a cc that actually works against anyone blocking.
Clench is a bad cc, it's dodgeable just like rune cage yet doesn't work against anyone blocking so useless to try and kill a magplar.

It's also useless vs dk's/ warden so thats 40% of potential classes its bad against, not including just straight up being blocked by heavy s&b builds.

I’m sitting at 3700 crit resist that I could honestly make higher if I wanted to, it’s why I’m impregnable to counter crits on shields, I’m sitting at 25K+ resist before bloodspawn in again, might I remind you... in light armor.

And shields weak on open world cp? Are you joking? I get they’re weak on no cp... but cp? No my friend they are not.

And clench is bad cc with masters? It’s one of the most powerful options sorcs can go right now and you’re saying it’s bad?
Also why are you crying the build is missing skills? You just said get rid of some of those abilities and run more shields... those abilities I’m using are all pretty standard on sorcs right now esp if you don’t have the third bar. Would I love to use dark deal and mine? Yes... do you have room for them.. no

But hey continue to run your old builds instead of adapting

Continue trying to 'adapt' yet coming out far weaker and less dmg.

Yes clench is a bad cc, your cc is useless vs dk's, wardens and can be dodged and if you can't do anything to counter anyone blocking, just keep curse on them for that sweet 3k dmg every 4s you'll be doing with those stats.

Even with 3.7k crit resist that is 55% crit dmg reduction. My stam nb and stamplar run around 45-50% crit and have 82% crit dmg. So on average even with that crit resists you are going to be taking around 13% more dps than on live via crits.

So you do have 25k armour liek you said, even if you inflated it with cp and took it out of important cp's like the flat % reductions but ok.

Most pvp classes have around 9k pen in pvp, so really without bs you have around 16k armour which is 25% dmg reduction.

So yeah you'll be taking around 12% less dmg roughly than on life, congrats. But at what cost, you are not going to kill anyone with that setup. Your sustain is going to be lacking, your not using crushing shock so dk's/ wardens are going to laugh at you when the only thing you can do is curse them and even if they didn't use wings/ shimmer you won't have enough dmg anyway.


And yes shields in CP still suck open world, mag sorc is a class thats good at killing absolute noobs but pretty bad vs anything else. Even in cp if 2 stam builds decide to focus you and bleed you and start attacking you'll be on the defensive the entire time until they drop ults and you die. I favour stamina in open world, shields suck.

So what have you achieved? Gave up important skills, less sustain and less dmg to basically be as tanky as shields are now in open world, less so because you are only using 1. Made your build completely projectile based so 2/5 classes completely counter you.

Continue to say you're adapting when all your doing is accepting bad changes and throwing out subpar builds.

What if I told you that ZOS recognized that Sorcs were overperforming and that they want our builds to be "subpar"... or, perhaps, brought down to Templar/DK/Warden levels?

PickleRick

@Savos_Saren while you’ve done a good thing by starting this conversation, arguing with stubborn players who are refusing to acknowledge that we live in a world where sorc shields are getting a big nerf is only going to take away from what you are trying to do and probably get your thread closed eventually.

That being said, any thoughts on Pariah? It has excellent synergy with healing ward.

Savos_Saren

@PickleRick

Honestly, I like running dual damage sets and compensate for the lack of regen with my enchantments/heavy attacks. As you see- I also like to get my resistances from jewelry traits, CP, and one piece heavy (chest). Pariah scales off of your missing health (which I can see how that compliments Healing Ward) however- I wouldn't run a heavy armor set. I think it would take too much of a toll on your burst.

If we're going to get away from dependency on our "oh ***" shield- I'd suggest gradually making some changes to make you rely less and less on Hardened Ward.

By all means, though: theorycraft away! Test it in PTS. I think that ZOS is going to tweak a couple of our damage abilities and, perhaps, make the 1 second delay on our shields uninterruptable (or perhaps make it interruptable but drop it down to .5 secs).

If that's the case- you might not even need to theorycraft anymore and just adapt to preemptively putting up shields.

As I said before, though: I wouldn't mind a few buffs to our abilities and a nerf to our shield to encourage alternate builds/gameplay. I've grown bored of relying on popping a shield every few seconds.

Kikke

Savos_Saren wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=84447

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=88161

This is how you can get fairly close, You can trade out bloodspawn and run something similar to live...One's got more damage and the other has more Mitigation.

No matter what you try to do sorc's are going to be even weaker that on live.

Even if you stack lots of armour, realistically you're going to be taking more dmg because of the crit changes unless you stack into armour heavily to get about the same.

But on live now shields are very weak open world cp and in bg's. I favour stamina builds a lot nowadays but i can say for certain that shields are weaker than heavy armour or dodge builds currently.

The change just straight up makes them even weaker by a lot, so no matter when you do to compensate for them you are going to have less sustain/ dmg and likely be more squishy.

Even running around on a 3k spell dmg, 50k magicka build in open world i cannot do anything vs half good players. I'm forced to be on the defensive the entire time while they melt my shields and i'm forced to cast them every 2s until they burst me. That is with 2 shields being instant.

Your giving up something to run those skills like that, mines, dark deal a cc that actually works against anyone blocking.
Clench is a bad cc, it's dodgeable just like rune cage yet doesn't work against anyone blocking so useless to try and kill a magplar.

It's also useless vs dk's/ warden so thats 40% of potential classes its bad against, not including just straight up being blocked by heavy s&b builds.

I’m sitting at 3700 crit resist that I could honestly make higher if I wanted to, it’s why I’m impregnable to counter crits on shields, I’m sitting at 25K+ resist before bloodspawn in again, might I remind you... in light armor.

And shields weak on open world cp? Are you joking? I get they’re weak on no cp... but cp? No my friend they are not.

And clench is bad cc with masters? It’s one of the most powerful options sorcs can go right now and you’re saying it’s bad?
Also why are you crying the build is missing skills? You just said get rid of some of those abilities and run more shields... those abilities I’m using are all pretty standard on sorcs right now esp if you don’t have the third bar. Would I love to use dark deal and mine? Yes... do you have room for them.. no

But hey continue to run your old builds instead of adapting

Continue trying to 'adapt' yet coming out far weaker and less dmg.

Yes clench is a bad cc, your cc is useless vs dk's, wardens and can be dodged and if you can't do anything to counter anyone blocking, just keep curse on them for that sweet 3k dmg every 4s you'll be doing with those stats.

Even with 3.7k crit resist that is 55% crit dmg reduction. My stam nb and stamplar run around 45-50% crit and have 82% crit dmg. So on average even with that crit resists you are going to be taking around 13% more dps than on live via crits.

So you do have 25k armour liek you said, even if you inflated it with cp and took it out of important cp's like the flat % reductions but ok.

Most pvp classes have around 9k pen in pvp, so really without bs you have around 16k armour which is 25% dmg reduction.

So yeah you'll be taking around 12% less dmg roughly than on life, congrats. But at what cost, you are not going to kill anyone with that setup. Your sustain is going to be lacking, your not using crushing shock so dk's/ wardens are going to laugh at you when the only thing you can do is curse them and even if they didn't use wings/ shimmer you won't have enough dmg anyway.


And yes shields in CP still suck open world, mag sorc is a class thats good at killing absolute noobs but pretty bad vs anything else. Even in cp if 2 stam builds decide to focus you and bleed you and start attacking you'll be on the defensive the entire time until they drop ults and you die. I favour stamina in open world, shields suck.

So what have you achieved? Gave up important skills, less sustain and less dmg to basically be as tanky as shields are now in open world, less so because you are only using 1. Made your build completely projectile based so 2/5 classes completely counter you.

Continue to say you're adapting when all your doing is accepting bad changes and throwing out subpar builds.

What if I told you that ZOS recognized that Sorcs were overperforming and that they want our builds to be "subpar"... or, perhaps, brought down to Templar/DK/Warden levels?

Ehh, what? When was sorc overperforming? Maybe we were strong back when shields laster double duration, prenerf frag or prenerf streak. Maybe we were strong for one patch after ZOS gave us a broken ability. But saying that Sorcs have been overperforming recently is just lies.
And what is this brought down to templar/DK/warden level saying that goes around? Are you guys playing the same game as I? DKs are strong, especially in noCP-BGs and extremely tanky even in light armor. Templars are aswell, strong. The best healers by far and extremely strong in team play. Wardens... Stamina is OP as f***, and Magica is the trick of all trades. Calling any of them weak is just ... wrong, and tells more about you than anything else.

So by your logic, because someone did not want to learn how to beat a sorc. Sorcs should now be the weakest class in PvP with NO way to defend our self because you 'feel' we were overperforming?

PickleRick

Savos_Saren wrote: »

@PickleRick

Honestly, I like running dual damage sets and compensate for the lack of regen with my enchantments/heavy attacks. As you see- I also like to get my resistances from jewelry traits, CP, and one piece heavy (chest). Pariah scales off of your missing health (which I can see how that compliments Healing Ward) however- I wouldn't run a heavy armor set. I think it would take too much of a toll on your burst.

If we're going to get away from dependency on our "oh ***" shield- I'd suggest gradually making some changes to make you rely less and less on Hardened Ward.

By all means, though: theorycraft away! Test it in PTS. I think that ZOS is going to tweak a couple of our damage abilities and, perhaps, make the 1 second delay on our shields uninterruptable (or perhaps make it interruptable but drop it down to .5 secs).

If that's the case- you might not even need to theorycraft anymore and just adapt to preemptively putting up shields.

As I said before, though: I wouldn't mind a few buffs to our abilities and a nerf to our shield to encourage alternate builds/gameplay. I've grown bored of relying on popping a shield every few seconds.

I was thinking pariah on jewelry chest and legs. Nothing you do is going to make you super tanky with just healing ward because sorc lacks good DoTs so I think giving up swift isn’t the best choice personally, the extra movement speed combined with the snare passive in light armor can offset the lack of snare immunity to some extent.

Sorcs are going to need to be more mobile than they have to be now since the defense are cut down a lot. Even adding more armor resistance won’t do it alone since you can still get stuck in a cycle of spamming a 4K cost shield unless HoTs are restoring your health.

Savos_Saren

kikkehs wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=84447

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=88161

This is how you can get fairly close, You can trade out bloodspawn and run something similar to live...One's got more damage and the other has more Mitigation.

No matter what you try to do sorc's are going to be even weaker that on live.

Even if you stack lots of armour, realistically you're going to be taking more dmg because of the crit changes unless you stack into armour heavily to get about the same.

But on live now shields are very weak open world cp and in bg's. I favour stamina builds a lot nowadays but i can say for certain that shields are weaker than heavy armour or dodge builds currently.

The change just straight up makes them even weaker by a lot, so no matter when you do to compensate for them you are going to have less sustain/ dmg and likely be more squishy.

Even running around on a 3k spell dmg, 50k magicka build in open world i cannot do anything vs half good players. I'm forced to be on the defensive the entire time while they melt my shields and i'm forced to cast them every 2s until they burst me. That is with 2 shields being instant.

Your giving up something to run those skills like that, mines, dark deal a cc that actually works against anyone blocking.
Clench is a bad cc, it's dodgeable just like rune cage yet doesn't work against anyone blocking so useless to try and kill a magplar.

It's also useless vs dk's/ warden so thats 40% of potential classes its bad against, not including just straight up being blocked by heavy s&b builds.

I’m sitting at 3700 crit resist that I could honestly make higher if I wanted to, it’s why I’m impregnable to counter crits on shields, I’m sitting at 25K+ resist before bloodspawn in again, might I remind you... in light armor.

And shields weak on open world cp? Are you joking? I get they’re weak on no cp... but cp? No my friend they are not.

And clench is bad cc with masters? It’s one of the most powerful options sorcs can go right now and you’re saying it’s bad?
Also why are you crying the build is missing skills? You just said get rid of some of those abilities and run more shields... those abilities I’m using are all pretty standard on sorcs right now esp if you don’t have the third bar. Would I love to use dark deal and mine? Yes... do you have room for them.. no

But hey continue to run your old builds instead of adapting

Continue trying to 'adapt' yet coming out far weaker and less dmg.

Yes clench is a bad cc, your cc is useless vs dk's, wardens and can be dodged and if you can't do anything to counter anyone blocking, just keep curse on them for that sweet 3k dmg every 4s you'll be doing with those stats.

Even with 3.7k crit resist that is 55% crit dmg reduction. My stam nb and stamplar run around 45-50% crit and have 82% crit dmg. So on average even with that crit resists you are going to be taking around 13% more dps than on live via crits.

So you do have 25k armour liek you said, even if you inflated it with cp and took it out of important cp's like the flat % reductions but ok.

Most pvp classes have around 9k pen in pvp, so really without bs you have around 16k armour which is 25% dmg reduction.

So yeah you'll be taking around 12% less dmg roughly than on life, congrats. But at what cost, you are not going to kill anyone with that setup. Your sustain is going to be lacking, your not using crushing shock so dk's/ wardens are going to laugh at you when the only thing you can do is curse them and even if they didn't use wings/ shimmer you won't have enough dmg anyway.


And yes shields in CP still suck open world, mag sorc is a class thats good at killing absolute noobs but pretty bad vs anything else. Even in cp if 2 stam builds decide to focus you and bleed you and start attacking you'll be on the defensive the entire time until they drop ults and you die. I favour stamina in open world, shields suck.

So what have you achieved? Gave up important skills, less sustain and less dmg to basically be as tanky as shields are now in open world, less so because you are only using 1. Made your build completely projectile based so 2/5 classes completely counter you.

Continue to say you're adapting when all your doing is accepting bad changes and throwing out subpar builds.

What if I told you that ZOS recognized that Sorcs were overperforming and that they want our builds to be "subpar"... or, perhaps, brought down to Templar/DK/Warden levels?

Ehh, what? When was sorc overperforming? Maybe we were strong back when shields laster double duration, prenerf frag or prenerf streak. Maybe we were strong for one patch after ZOS gave us a broken ability. But saying that Sorcs have been overperforming recently is just lies.
And what is this brought down to templar/DK/warden level saying that goes around? Are you guys playing the same game as I? DKs are strong, especially in noCP-BGs and extremely tanky even in light armor. Templars are aswell, strong. The best healers by far and extremely strong in team play. Wardens... Stamina is OP as f***, and Magica is the trick of all trades. Calling any of them weak is just ... wrong, and tells more about you than anything else.

So by your logic, because someone did not want to learn how to beat a sorc. Sorcs should now be the weakest class in PvP with NO way to defend our self because you 'feel' we were overperforming?

I'm not the one who decided to make these changes. They obviously came from ZOS... and ZOS can sometimes see a bigger picture than we can. Honestly, my NBs and StamDen feel overpowered, too. I won't be surprised if they take a hit as well. And then, eventually, it will go full circle again.

raj72616a

Thraben wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

The main source of burst on this build is overload- which is easier to obtain next patch.

Mhm... shall we tell him ?

The times when you could stay in OL for like 10 minutes without even dropping it are over. Your Ulti generation is fully blocked. No healing, no blocking, no killing, no minor heroism can change that. Besides, I wouldn´t call what I just saw on the PTS "Burst".

And the "toggle" animation is as clunky as the old one. It´s a hidden cast time adding to the insult of the Hardened Ward cast time.

sorry we complained abt no ulti regen in werewolf form, and argued that OL can regen ulti while active so why not WW.

now they "fixed" that by nerfing OL. again.

Savos_Saren

Here's something to ponder:

We know that Queen's Elegence buffs Overload's Light attacks (that's what we usually equipped it for) and heavy attacks. Now that the heavy attack has been buffed- we can look into trying to benefit from the heavy attack. There are sets out there that buff "fully charged heavy attacks". But, there's no "finish" to a Sorc's heavy attack (unless you run out of ultimate).

So here's the question:

So, technically, an Overloaded heavy attack is a channeled ability (Soulshine buffed?) Or- when exactly is the Sorc's Overload heavy attack considered "fully charged" and completed?

Sacredx

Great work on making the effort to create a build from scratch. Keep at it and eventually you will prefect it and I am sure it will work out for you.

Honestly we don't have enough people like this to innovate new ideas. Too many copycats and 'meta' build sheep running around these days.

Imagination is more important than knowledge. - Albert Einstein

Xsorus

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=84447

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=88161

This is how you can get fairly close, You can trade out bloodspawn and run something similar to live...One's got more damage and the other has more Mitigation.

No matter what you try to do sorc's are going to be even weaker that on live.

Even if you stack lots of armour, realistically you're going to be taking more dmg because of the crit changes unless you stack into armour heavily to get about the same.

But on live now shields are very weak open world cp and in bg's. I favour stamina builds a lot nowadays but i can say for certain that shields are weaker than heavy armour or dodge builds currently.

The change just straight up makes them even weaker by a lot, so no matter when you do to compensate for them you are going to have less sustain/ dmg and likely be more squishy.

Even running around on a 3k spell dmg, 50k magicka build in open world i cannot do anything vs half good players. I'm forced to be on the defensive the entire time while they melt my shields and i'm forced to cast them every 2s until they burst me. That is with 2 shields being instant.

Your giving up something to run those skills like that, mines, dark deal a cc that actually works against anyone blocking.
Clench is a bad cc, it's dodgeable just like rune cage yet doesn't work against anyone blocking so useless to try and kill a magplar.

It's also useless vs dk's/ warden so thats 40% of potential classes its bad against, not including just straight up being blocked by heavy s&b builds.

I’m sitting at 3700 crit resist that I could honestly make higher if I wanted to, it’s why I’m impregnable to counter crits on shields, I’m sitting at 25K+ resist before bloodspawn in again, might I remind you... in light armor.

And shields weak on open world cp? Are you joking? I get they’re weak on no cp... but cp? No my friend they are not.

And clench is bad cc with masters? It’s one of the most powerful options sorcs can go right now and you’re saying it’s bad?
Also why are you crying the build is missing skills? You just said get rid of some of those abilities and run more shields... those abilities I’m using are all pretty standard on sorcs right now esp if you don’t have the third bar. Would I love to use dark deal and mine? Yes... do you have room for them.. no

But hey continue to run your old builds instead of adapting

Continue trying to 'adapt' yet coming out far weaker and less dmg.

Yes clench is a bad cc, your cc is useless vs dk's, wardens and can be dodged and if you can't do anything to counter anyone blocking, just keep curse on them for that sweet 3k dmg every 4s you'll be doing with those stats.

Even with 3.7k crit resist that is 55% crit dmg reduction. My stam nb and stamplar run around 45-50% crit and have 82% crit dmg. So on average even with that crit resists you are going to be taking around 13% more dps than on live via crits.

So you do have 25k armour liek you said, even if you inflated it with cp and took it out of important cp's like the flat % reductions but ok.

Most pvp classes have around 9k pen in pvp, so really without bs you have around 16k armour which is 25% dmg reduction.

So yeah you'll be taking around 12% less dmg roughly than on life, congrats. But at what cost, you are not going to kill anyone with that setup. Your sustain is going to be lacking, your not using crushing shock so dk's/ wardens are going to laugh at you when the only thing you can do is curse them and even if they didn't use wings/ shimmer you won't have enough dmg anyway.


And yes shields in CP still suck open world, mag sorc is a class thats good at killing absolute noobs but pretty bad vs anything else. Even in cp if 2 stam builds decide to focus you and bleed you and start attacking you'll be on the defensive the entire time until they drop ults and you die. I favour stamina in open world, shields suck.

So what have you achieved? Gave up important skills, less sustain and less dmg to basically be as tanky as shields are now in open world, less so because you are only using 1. Made your build completely projectile based so 2/5 classes completely counter you.

Continue to say you're adapting when all your doing is accepting bad changes and throwing out subpar builds.

I'm sorry, I'm not going to take anyone seriously who thinks Clench with Master's is Bad CC. I don't know if its just because you're on Console but its pretty laughable. If you're getting Wrecked by Magicka Dk's on a Magicka Sorc on the regular you're doing it wrong. Also who you fighting that's blocking consistently all the time? Is this just a Console thing? Cause I can tell you they don't do that on PC anymore..

You can bump up Crit resist if ya want, I generally stop at 51, You can switch from Nirnhoned off some of the light pieces for Impregnable and its not a huge cut. if you go full impregnable you're sitting at around 5.5k Crit Resist. I also didn't inflate it with CP, I specifically put points in that line to increase the physical resist as putting it anything else wasn't a massive increase. I also have more then 16k armor because I also use Bloodspawn which is pretty consistently up in most fights.

Again you're saying shields on CP still suck in open world...No one is going to take anyone seriously who says stuff like that. You say its good at killing absolute noobs but pretty bad vs everything...Anyone who says that dings the "I'm just bad at the class i'm playing list and anytime I die its because My class is just weak" bell. I mean your example of why the class is bad is you cannot face tank 2 stam bleed builds who drop ults on you...I mean...Do you know a lot of classes in the game that's going to face tank that? Because I can tell you if I get two stambleed builds on me and they double ult me..I'm not going to live on pretty much every class.....Because I play every single class.

But hey; continue to cry that Sorcs are weak...and that there is no point adapting... *shrug*....

leepalmer95

Xsorus wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=84447

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=88161

This is how you can get fairly close, You can trade out bloodspawn and run something similar to live...One's got more damage and the other has more Mitigation.

No matter what you try to do sorc's are going to be even weaker that on live.

Even if you stack lots of armour, realistically you're going to be taking more dmg because of the crit changes unless you stack into armour heavily to get about the same.

But on live now shields are very weak open world cp and in bg's. I favour stamina builds a lot nowadays but i can say for certain that shields are weaker than heavy armour or dodge builds currently.

The change just straight up makes them even weaker by a lot, so no matter when you do to compensate for them you are going to have less sustain/ dmg and likely be more squishy.

Even running around on a 3k spell dmg, 50k magicka build in open world i cannot do anything vs half good players. I'm forced to be on the defensive the entire time while they melt my shields and i'm forced to cast them every 2s until they burst me. That is with 2 shields being instant.

Your giving up something to run those skills like that, mines, dark deal a cc that actually works against anyone blocking.
Clench is a bad cc, it's dodgeable just like rune cage yet doesn't work against anyone blocking so useless to try and kill a magplar.

It's also useless vs dk's/ warden so thats 40% of potential classes its bad against, not including just straight up being blocked by heavy s&b builds.

I’m sitting at 3700 crit resist that I could honestly make higher if I wanted to, it’s why I’m impregnable to counter crits on shields, I’m sitting at 25K+ resist before bloodspawn in again, might I remind you... in light armor.

And shields weak on open world cp? Are you joking? I get they’re weak on no cp... but cp? No my friend they are not.

And clench is bad cc with masters? It’s one of the most powerful options sorcs can go right now and you’re saying it’s bad?
Also why are you crying the build is missing skills? You just said get rid of some of those abilities and run more shields... those abilities I’m using are all pretty standard on sorcs right now esp if you don’t have the third bar. Would I love to use dark deal and mine? Yes... do you have room for them.. no

But hey continue to run your old builds instead of adapting

Continue trying to 'adapt' yet coming out far weaker and less dmg.

Yes clench is a bad cc, your cc is useless vs dk's, wardens and can be dodged and if you can't do anything to counter anyone blocking, just keep curse on them for that sweet 3k dmg every 4s you'll be doing with those stats.

Even with 3.7k crit resist that is 55% crit dmg reduction. My stam nb and stamplar run around 45-50% crit and have 82% crit dmg. So on average even with that crit resists you are going to be taking around 13% more dps than on live via crits.

So you do have 25k armour liek you said, even if you inflated it with cp and took it out of important cp's like the flat % reductions but ok.

Most pvp classes have around 9k pen in pvp, so really without bs you have around 16k armour which is 25% dmg reduction.

So yeah you'll be taking around 12% less dmg roughly than on life, congrats. But at what cost, you are not going to kill anyone with that setup. Your sustain is going to be lacking, your not using crushing shock so dk's/ wardens are going to laugh at you when the only thing you can do is curse them and even if they didn't use wings/ shimmer you won't have enough dmg anyway.


And yes shields in CP still suck open world, mag sorc is a class thats good at killing absolute noobs but pretty bad vs anything else. Even in cp if 2 stam builds decide to focus you and bleed you and start attacking you'll be on the defensive the entire time until they drop ults and you die. I favour stamina in open world, shields suck.

So what have you achieved? Gave up important skills, less sustain and less dmg to basically be as tanky as shields are now in open world, less so because you are only using 1. Made your build completely projectile based so 2/5 classes completely counter you.

Continue to say you're adapting when all your doing is accepting bad changes and throwing out subpar builds.

I'm sorry, I'm not going to take anyone seriously who thinks Clench with Master's is Bad CC. I don't know if its just because you're on Console but its pretty laughable. If you're getting Wrecked by Magicka Dk's on a Magicka Sorc on the regular you're doing it wrong. Also who you fighting that's blocking consistently all the time? Is this just a Console thing? Cause I can tell you they don't do that on PC anymore..

You can bump up Crit resist if ya want, I generally stop at 51, You can switch from Nirnhoned off some of the light pieces for Impregnable and its not a huge cut. if you go full impregnable you're sitting at around 5.5k Crit Resist. I also didn't inflate it with CP, I specifically put points in that line to increase the physical resist as putting it anything else wasn't a massive increase. I also have more then 16k armor because I also use Bloodspawn which is pretty consistently up in most fights.

Again you're saying shields on CP still suck in open world...No one is going to take anyone seriously who says stuff like that. You say its good at killing absolute noobs but pretty bad vs everything...Anyone who says that dings the "I'm just bad at the class i'm playing list and anytime I die its because My class is just weak" bell. I mean your example of why the class is bad is you cannot face tank 2 stam bleed builds who drop ults on you...I mean...Do you know a lot of classes in the game that's going to face tank that? Because I can tell you if I get two stambleed builds on me and they double ult me..I'm not going to live on pretty much every class.....Because I play every single class.

But hey; continue to cry that Sorcs are weak...and that there is no point adapting... *shrug*....

You can survive with literally anything stam + magplar vs a double bleed stam builds. You can dodge the dmg altogether an counter the dots with hots for example, or purge in the case of templars.

If i'm a nb theres a chance i can survive via cloak.

With mag sorc i just shield for 10s then die. Shields are bad mitigation vs more people.

Everyone runs like 30k hp in cp pvp and mag sorc can burst barely 10k of that.

Yes clench is a bad cc, a cc thats a projectile and can be reflected and dodged is a bad cc. How exactly do you deal with a mag dk who uses wings? He can reflect you cc and spammable, reflect your lights, reflect your frag. You gonna curse him to death.

By noob i mean those players who have like 20k hp and hardly any impen, i can burst them in the 4s i actually get to do dmg before i forced to rotate shields again.


But like i said good luck killing anything on what equates to a troll tank build. I'm sure those dk's are going to be hurting from the only source of dmg you can do vs them, OP 2-3k curses.

IlCanis_LupuslI

@Savos_Saren
You sir are a prime example of a beeping Noob .
Kidding kidding, sir I salute to you.
Finally a sorc not whining and bitching.
Finally a sorc who doesn't throw up his hands
and just gives up but thinks "hey how can I solve this problem?
If everyone would think like you the amount of" buhuhu nerf this, then nerf this " threads would drop by 90%
Some people say beeing a good player just means a lot copying a build and 1vsxing and beeing good at animation canceling.
I say someone who works around class specific problems and optimizes setups making sure there are more then 1 build per class being played, are just as good players and deserve the same respect
as the previous player. Thanks and keep going!

Xsorus

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=84447

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=88161

This is how you can get fairly close, You can trade out bloodspawn and run something similar to live...One's got more damage and the other has more Mitigation.

No matter what you try to do sorc's are going to be even weaker that on live.

Even if you stack lots of armour, realistically you're going to be taking more dmg because of the crit changes unless you stack into armour heavily to get about the same.

But on live now shields are very weak open world cp and in bg's. I favour stamina builds a lot nowadays but i can say for certain that shields are weaker than heavy armour or dodge builds currently.

The change just straight up makes them even weaker by a lot, so no matter when you do to compensate for them you are going to have less sustain/ dmg and likely be more squishy.

Even running around on a 3k spell dmg, 50k magicka build in open world i cannot do anything vs half good players. I'm forced to be on the defensive the entire time while they melt my shields and i'm forced to cast them every 2s until they burst me. That is with 2 shields being instant.

Your giving up something to run those skills like that, mines, dark deal a cc that actually works against anyone blocking.
Clench is a bad cc, it's dodgeable just like rune cage yet doesn't work against anyone blocking so useless to try and kill a magplar.

It's also useless vs dk's/ warden so thats 40% of potential classes its bad against, not including just straight up being blocked by heavy s&b builds.

I’m sitting at 3700 crit resist that I could honestly make higher if I wanted to, it’s why I’m impregnable to counter crits on shields, I’m sitting at 25K+ resist before bloodspawn in again, might I remind you... in light armor.

And shields weak on open world cp? Are you joking? I get they’re weak on no cp... but cp? No my friend they are not.

And clench is bad cc with masters? It’s one of the most powerful options sorcs can go right now and you’re saying it’s bad?
Also why are you crying the build is missing skills? You just said get rid of some of those abilities and run more shields... those abilities I’m using are all pretty standard on sorcs right now esp if you don’t have the third bar. Would I love to use dark deal and mine? Yes... do you have room for them.. no

But hey continue to run your old builds instead of adapting

Continue trying to 'adapt' yet coming out far weaker and less dmg.

Yes clench is a bad cc, your cc is useless vs dk's, wardens and can be dodged and if you can't do anything to counter anyone blocking, just keep curse on them for that sweet 3k dmg every 4s you'll be doing with those stats.

Even with 3.7k crit resist that is 55% crit dmg reduction. My stam nb and stamplar run around 45-50% crit and have 82% crit dmg. So on average even with that crit resists you are going to be taking around 13% more dps than on live via crits.

So you do have 25k armour liek you said, even if you inflated it with cp and took it out of important cp's like the flat % reductions but ok.

Most pvp classes have around 9k pen in pvp, so really without bs you have around 16k armour which is 25% dmg reduction.

So yeah you'll be taking around 12% less dmg roughly than on life, congrats. But at what cost, you are not going to kill anyone with that setup. Your sustain is going to be lacking, your not using crushing shock so dk's/ wardens are going to laugh at you when the only thing you can do is curse them and even if they didn't use wings/ shimmer you won't have enough dmg anyway.


And yes shields in CP still suck open world, mag sorc is a class thats good at killing absolute noobs but pretty bad vs anything else. Even in cp if 2 stam builds decide to focus you and bleed you and start attacking you'll be on the defensive the entire time until they drop ults and you die. I favour stamina in open world, shields suck.

So what have you achieved? Gave up important skills, less sustain and less dmg to basically be as tanky as shields are now in open world, less so because you are only using 1. Made your build completely projectile based so 2/5 classes completely counter you.

Continue to say you're adapting when all your doing is accepting bad changes and throwing out subpar builds.

I'm sorry, I'm not going to take anyone seriously who thinks Clench with Master's is Bad CC. I don't know if its just because you're on Console but its pretty laughable. If you're getting Wrecked by Magicka Dk's on a Magicka Sorc on the regular you're doing it wrong. Also who you fighting that's blocking consistently all the time? Is this just a Console thing? Cause I can tell you they don't do that on PC anymore..

You can bump up Crit resist if ya want, I generally stop at 51, You can switch from Nirnhoned off some of the light pieces for Impregnable and its not a huge cut. if you go full impregnable you're sitting at around 5.5k Crit Resist. I also didn't inflate it with CP, I specifically put points in that line to increase the physical resist as putting it anything else wasn't a massive increase. I also have more then 16k armor because I also use Bloodspawn which is pretty consistently up in most fights.

Again you're saying shields on CP still suck in open world...No one is going to take anyone seriously who says stuff like that. You say its good at killing absolute noobs but pretty bad vs everything...Anyone who says that dings the "I'm just bad at the class i'm playing list and anytime I die its because My class is just weak" bell. I mean your example of why the class is bad is you cannot face tank 2 stam bleed builds who drop ults on you...I mean...Do you know a lot of classes in the game that's going to face tank that? Because I can tell you if I get two stambleed builds on me and they double ult me..I'm not going to live on pretty much every class.....Because I play every single class.

But hey; continue to cry that Sorcs are weak...and that there is no point adapting... *shrug*....

You can survive with literally anything stam + magplar vs a double bleed stam builds. You can dodge the dmg altogether an counter the dots with hots for example, or purge in the case of templars.

If i'm a nb theres a chance i can survive via cloak.

With mag sorc i just shield for 10s then die. Shields are bad mitigation vs more people.

Everyone runs like 30k hp in cp pvp and mag sorc can burst barely 10k of that.

Yes clench is a bad cc, a cc thats a projectile and can be reflected and dodged is a bad cc. How exactly do you deal with a mag dk who uses wings? He can reflect you cc and spammable, reflect your lights, reflect your frag. You gonna curse him to death.

By noob i mean those players who have like 20k hp and hardly any impen, i can burst them in the 4s i actually get to do dmg before i forced to rotate shields again.


But like i said good luck killing anything on what equates to a troll tank build. I'm sure those dk's are going to be hurting from the only source of dmg you can do vs them, OP 2-3k curses.

You're not surviving two Bleed Builds on you even as Magplar, I can murder a Magplar on a StamDK as a Dot build myself..and i don't even have bloody Master's Axe's (Just swords). Don't get me started on a Stam class with no purge....You're also not going to counter two Bleed builds on you with hots...are you joking? as a NB you will survive right they reveal you with Evil Dead or god help you if one is a StamNB with Piercing (Though that is getting nerfed).

Also not everyone runs 30k HP on CP pvp, In fact most players you face will not be running 30k HP, You only get 30k HP when you build double Heavy sets usually and you don't get to run Swift doing that. If you're running swift one of the sets you're going to be running is Plague Doctor. That's what most of the Zergballs on NA PC do, they run that set with whatever else they need on the class just to get 30k HP.

I'm not even going to begin to comment on the fact you can barely burst 10k on a Sorc.....

Yes you can reflect Clench, but have you ever actually sat there on your Magicka Dk (Which i assume you have one cause your sig says you do) and just spammed Wings to avoid a Projectile from a Magicka Sorc? You realize the amount of mana that eats through? Seriously go do it right now on live...Tell me how far it gets ya...

Also why would I sit there and try killing a Troll Tank Build? You think i'm going to sit around trying to kill an 80k HP warden? No..If you're a troll tank build i'm going to move along..You're not going to kill me on a freakin Sorc.....

Man..I knew I should of read your post history before bothering with you....

So we've established that so far you can't kill anything on your sorc but Potatoes...Anyone remotely good who comes along you can't beat according to you...and its because you play a Magicka Sorc, that terrible class that everyone agree's is just *** in pvp *grin*. If only you played one of the other classes....You would beat not only Potatoes but everyone else...But since its the Magicka Sorc...You cannot win vs those players

Biro123

While I applaud any efforts to think around the problem and come up with workable builds, we can clearly see that they all result in much, much lower damage, sustain and probably survivability.
They are all playable, but all sorc' mains can see that immediately after thinking around the alternatives, (and most likely already considered most of the options offered).

Either way you look at it, sorcs have unreliable heals which in the past were compensated for with reliable shields.
Now the shields are also unreliable and require a significant investment in stats never needed before ( which the damage and sustain has previously been balanced around)

It's very obvious to sorc' mains that in all ways this is a huge nerf to all aspects... We are not just bitching and whining because 'oh noes, merging my crutch'. Its because the class is screwed.
(Btw, I don't even play magsorc anymore)

Kel

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=84447

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=88161

This is how you can get fairly close, You can trade out bloodspawn and run something similar to live...One's got more damage and the other has more Mitigation.

No matter what you try to do sorc's are going to be even weaker that on live.

Even if you stack lots of armour, realistically you're going to be taking more dmg because of the crit changes unless you stack into armour heavily to get about the same.

But on live now shields are very weak open world cp and in bg's. I favour stamina builds a lot nowadays but i can say for certain that shields are weaker than heavy armour or dodge builds currently.

The change just straight up makes them even weaker by a lot, so no matter when you do to compensate for them you are going to have less sustain/ dmg and likely be more squishy.

Even running around on a 3k spell dmg, 50k magicka build in open world i cannot do anything vs half good players. I'm forced to be on the defensive the entire time while they melt my shields and i'm forced to cast them every 2s until they burst me. That is with 2 shields being instant.

Your giving up something to run those skills like that, mines, dark deal a cc that actually works against anyone blocking.
Clench is a bad cc, it's dodgeable just like rune cage yet doesn't work against anyone blocking so useless to try and kill a magplar.

It's also useless vs dk's/ warden so thats 40% of potential classes its bad against, not including just straight up being blocked by heavy s&b builds.

I’m sitting at 3700 crit resist that I could honestly make higher if I wanted to, it’s why I’m impregnable to counter crits on shields, I’m sitting at 25K+ resist before bloodspawn in again, might I remind you... in light armor.

And shields weak on open world cp? Are you joking? I get they’re weak on no cp... but cp? No my friend they are not.

And clench is bad cc with masters? It’s one of the most powerful options sorcs can go right now and you’re saying it’s bad?
Also why are you crying the build is missing skills? You just said get rid of some of those abilities and run more shields... those abilities I’m using are all pretty standard on sorcs right now esp if you don’t have the third bar. Would I love to use dark deal and mine? Yes... do you have room for them.. no

But hey continue to run your old builds instead of adapting

Continue trying to 'adapt' yet coming out far weaker and less dmg.



Continue to say you're adapting when all your doing is accepting bad changes and throwing out subpar builds.

I'll simply ask again....what have you come up with aside from tears and complaints?
The old way of playing sorc is dead. That's what everyone is crying about, anyway.
So why not contribute to moving forward instead of tearing down every new idea that comes across the forums. Unless you're just content to wallow in misery and spread it....
Old sorc isn't coming back, at least until after Murkmire. So help to move forward, try a new class, or leave the game. That's really the choices before you. And if you're leaving, or quitting on your class, why try to hinder other players trying to make something work?
No matter the noise, you're not getting your old shield back. Zos has publicly said so. That's the reality.
So, once again, what have you come up with? Because complains and tears didn't work. Time to start moving forward, or calling it a day.

Aedaryl

Xsorus wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=84447

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=88161

This is how you can get fairly close, You can trade out bloodspawn and run something similar to live...One's got more damage and the other has more Mitigation.

No matter what you try to do sorc's are going to be even weaker that on live.

Even if you stack lots of armour, realistically you're going to be taking more dmg because of the crit changes unless you stack into armour heavily to get about the same.

But on live now shields are very weak open world cp and in bg's. I favour stamina builds a lot nowadays but i can say for certain that shields are weaker than heavy armour or dodge builds currently.

The change just straight up makes them even weaker by a lot, so no matter when you do to compensate for them you are going to have less sustain/ dmg and likely be more squishy.

Even running around on a 3k spell dmg, 50k magicka build in open world i cannot do anything vs half good players. I'm forced to be on the defensive the entire time while they melt my shields and i'm forced to cast them every 2s until they burst me. That is with 2 shields being instant.

Your giving up something to run those skills like that, mines, dark deal a cc that actually works against anyone blocking.
Clench is a bad cc, it's dodgeable just like rune cage yet doesn't work against anyone blocking so useless to try and kill a magplar.

It's also useless vs dk's/ warden so thats 40% of potential classes its bad against, not including just straight up being blocked by heavy s&b builds.

I’m sitting at 3700 crit resist that I could honestly make higher if I wanted to, it’s why I’m impregnable to counter crits on shields, I’m sitting at 25K+ resist before bloodspawn in again, might I remind you... in light armor.

And shields weak on open world cp? Are you joking? I get they’re weak on no cp... but cp? No my friend they are not.

And clench is bad cc with masters? It’s one of the most powerful options sorcs can go right now and you’re saying it’s bad?
Also why are you crying the build is missing skills? You just said get rid of some of those abilities and run more shields... those abilities I’m using are all pretty standard on sorcs right now esp if you don’t have the third bar. Would I love to use dark deal and mine? Yes... do you have room for them.. no

But hey continue to run your old builds instead of adapting

Continue trying to 'adapt' yet coming out far weaker and less dmg.

Yes clench is a bad cc, your cc is useless vs dk's, wardens and can be dodged and if you can't do anything to counter anyone blocking, just keep curse on them for that sweet 3k dmg every 4s you'll be doing with those stats.

Even with 3.7k crit resist that is 55% crit dmg reduction. My stam nb and stamplar run around 45-50% crit and have 82% crit dmg. So on average even with that crit resists you are going to be taking around 13% more dps than on live via crits.

So you do have 25k armour liek you said, even if you inflated it with cp and took it out of important cp's like the flat % reductions but ok.

Most pvp classes have around 9k pen in pvp, so really without bs you have around 16k armour which is 25% dmg reduction.

So yeah you'll be taking around 12% less dmg roughly than on life, congrats. But at what cost, you are not going to kill anyone with that setup. Your sustain is going to be lacking, your not using crushing shock so dk's/ wardens are going to laugh at you when the only thing you can do is curse them and even if they didn't use wings/ shimmer you won't have enough dmg anyway.


And yes shields in CP still suck open world, mag sorc is a class thats good at killing absolute noobs but pretty bad vs anything else. Even in cp if 2 stam builds decide to focus you and bleed you and start attacking you'll be on the defensive the entire time until they drop ults and you die. I favour stamina in open world, shields suck.

So what have you achieved? Gave up important skills, less sustain and less dmg to basically be as tanky as shields are now in open world, less so because you are only using 1. Made your build completely projectile based so 2/5 classes completely counter you.

Continue to say you're adapting when all your doing is accepting bad changes and throwing out subpar builds.

I'm sorry, I'm not going to take anyone seriously who thinks Clench with Master's is Bad CC. I don't know if its just because you're on Console but its pretty laughable. If you're getting Wrecked by Magicka Dk's on a Magicka Sorc on the regular you're doing it wrong. Also who you fighting that's blocking consistently all the time? Is this just a Console thing? Cause I can tell you they don't do that on PC anymore..

You can bump up Crit resist if ya want, I generally stop at 51, You can switch from Nirnhoned off some of the light pieces for Impregnable and its not a huge cut. if you go full impregnable you're sitting at around 5.5k Crit Resist. I also didn't inflate it with CP, I specifically put points in that line to increase the physical resist as putting it anything else wasn't a massive increase. I also have more then 16k armor because I also use Bloodspawn which is pretty consistently up in most fights.

Again you're saying shields on CP still suck in open world...No one is going to take anyone seriously who says stuff like that. You say its good at killing absolute noobs but pretty bad vs everything...Anyone who says that dings the "I'm just bad at the class i'm playing list and anytime I die its because My class is just weak" bell. I mean your example of why the class is bad is you cannot face tank 2 stam bleed builds who drop ults on you...I mean...Do you know a lot of classes in the game that's going to face tank that? Because I can tell you if I get two stambleed builds on me and they double ult me..I'm not going to live on pretty much every class.....Because I play every single class.

But hey; continue to cry that Sorcs are weak...and that there is no point adapting... *shrug*....

You must be a noob.

A 50k magicka hardened ward with good defensive cps is destroyed in 2 global cooldown by a single one good player hwo just weave his spammable twice.

Shields are weak and it's the reason sorc never win anything on the competitive scene.

While shieldstacking 3 shields can be overpowered in 1v1 situations vs magicka build, in openwolrd, shields are just bad.

Don't even try, it's not a question of opinion, but a question of facts.

raj72616a

jabrone77 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=84447

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=88161

This is how you can get fairly close, You can trade out bloodspawn and run something similar to live...One's got more damage and the other has more Mitigation.

No matter what you try to do sorc's are going to be even weaker that on live.

Even if you stack lots of armour, realistically you're going to be taking more dmg because of the crit changes unless you stack into armour heavily to get about the same.

But on live now shields are very weak open world cp and in bg's. I favour stamina builds a lot nowadays but i can say for certain that shields are weaker than heavy armour or dodge builds currently.

The change just straight up makes them even weaker by a lot, so no matter when you do to compensate for them you are going to have less sustain/ dmg and likely be more squishy.

Even running around on a 3k spell dmg, 50k magicka build in open world i cannot do anything vs half good players. I'm forced to be on the defensive the entire time while they melt my shields and i'm forced to cast them every 2s until they burst me. That is with 2 shields being instant.

Your giving up something to run those skills like that, mines, dark deal a cc that actually works against anyone blocking.
Clench is a bad cc, it's dodgeable just like rune cage yet doesn't work against anyone blocking so useless to try and kill a magplar.

It's also useless vs dk's/ warden so thats 40% of potential classes its bad against, not including just straight up being blocked by heavy s&b builds.

I’m sitting at 3700 crit resist that I could honestly make higher if I wanted to, it’s why I’m impregnable to counter crits on shields, I’m sitting at 25K+ resist before bloodspawn in again, might I remind you... in light armor.

And shields weak on open world cp? Are you joking? I get they’re weak on no cp... but cp? No my friend they are not.

And clench is bad cc with masters? It’s one of the most powerful options sorcs can go right now and you’re saying it’s bad?
Also why are you crying the build is missing skills? You just said get rid of some of those abilities and run more shields... those abilities I’m using are all pretty standard on sorcs right now esp if you don’t have the third bar. Would I love to use dark deal and mine? Yes... do you have room for them.. no

But hey continue to run your old builds instead of adapting

Continue trying to 'adapt' yet coming out far weaker and less dmg.



Continue to say you're adapting when all your doing is accepting bad changes and throwing out subpar builds.

I'll simply ask again....what have you come up with aside from tears and complaints?
The old way of playing sorc is dead. That's what everyone is crying about, anyway.
So why not contribute to moving forward instead of tearing down every new idea that comes across the forums. Unless you're just content to wallow in misery and spread it....
Old sorc isn't coming back, at least until after Murkmire. So help to move forward, try a new class, or leave the game. That's really the choices before you. And if you're leaving, or quitting on your class, why try to hinder other players trying to make something work?
No matter the noise, you're not getting your old shield back. Zos has publicly said so. That's the reality.
So, once again, what have you come up with? Because complains and tears didn't work. Time to start moving forward, or calling it a day.

be fluid. adapt. move onto stamsorc like i do.

magsorc is no longer meant to be played, just face the reality.

Aurielle

The_Camper wrote: »

OH NO Sorcerers will have to think about defensive options now like every other class, instead of putting on 2 damage sets and strap on skoria and go into cyrodil with 11k resistances. aw noes we are doomed. our entire class is unplayable.

Look! Another person who doesn’t play BGs.

Strider__Roshin

I have a few build ideas. What do you think of:
5 Shackle
5 Impreg
2 Balorgh
Blackrose Resto

Savos_Saren

Biro123 wrote: »

While I applaud any efforts to think around the problem and come up with workable builds, we can clearly see that they all result in much, much lower damage, sustain and probably survivability.
They are all playable, but all sorc' mains can see that immediately after thinking around the alternatives, (and most likely already considered most of the options offered).

Either way you look at it, sorcs have unreliable heals which in the past were compensated for with reliable shields.
Now the shields are also unreliable and require a significant investment in stats never needed before ( which the damage and sustain has previously been balanced around)

It's very obvious to sorc' mains that in all ways this is a huge nerf to all aspects... We are not just bitching and whining because 'oh noes, merging my crutch'. Its because the class is screwed.
(Btw, I don't even play magsorc anymore)

For the part that I bolded: from what I gather about ZOS's step toward making these two very strong shields harder to cast is so that we can't just pop them on and continue to output high damage. It's not meant to be like that. ZOS wants players to have to take a break from outputting high damage so that they have to regen and shield/buff up.

This is exactly why they nerfed Templar's healing and DK's blocking. They wanted them to have to turtle up a bit to regen resources before continuing to aggress the enemy. Yes- it's lowered their damage output (just like this change is lowering ours) because they want us to have to choose.

That's why I know my nightblades are probably next on the chopping block. It's inevitable- but it does make sense. Constantly engaging enemies offensively with immediate defense "oh ***" buttons (our shields, our cloaks) and then immediately reengaging enemies is not the direction ZOS wants us to take. They want a slightly longer "disengagement" break before aggressing again.

Savos_Saren

Daus wrote: »

I have a few build ideas. What do you think of:
5 Shackle
5 Impreg
2 Balorgh
Blackrose Resto

Shackle for resources/regen. Impreg for crit resist. Balorgh for damage. Blackrose for heals.

Are you going to make your armor Divines and mundus the Apprentice (363 spell damage) while using Clockwork Citrus Filet? You could tailor your jewelry to either have regen or spell damage enchants.

Biro123

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

While I applaud any efforts to think around the problem and come up with workable builds, we can clearly see that they all result in much, much lower damage, sustain and probably survivability.
They are all playable, but all sorc' mains can see that immediately after thinking around the alternatives, (and most likely already considered most of the options offered).

Either way you look at it, sorcs have unreliable heals which in the past were compensated for with reliable shields.
Now the shields are also unreliable and require a significant investment in stats never needed before ( which the damage and sustain has previously been balanced around)

It's very obvious to sorc' mains that in all ways this is a huge nerf to all aspects... We are not just bitching and whining because 'oh noes, merging my crutch'. Its because the class is screwed.
(Btw, I don't even play magsorc anymore)

For the part that I bolded: from what I gather about ZOS's step toward making these two very strong shields harder to cast is so that we can't just pop them on and continue to output high damage. It's not meant to be like that. ZOS wants players to have to take a break from outputting high damage so that they have to regen and shield/buff up.

This is exactly why they nerfed Templar's healing and DK's blocking. They wanted them to have to turtle up a bit to regen resources before continuing to aggress the enemy. Yes- it's lowered their damage output (just like this change is lowering ours) because they want us to have to choose.

That's why I know my nightblades are probably next on the chopping block. It's inevitable- but it does make sense. Constantly engaging enemies offensively with immediate defense "oh ***" buttons (our shields, our cloaks) and then immediately reengaging enemies is not the direction ZOS wants us to take. They want a slightly longer "disengagement" break before aggressing again.

It doesn't work though.. sorc doesn't consistently put out high damage - it builds a timed burst. A shield-stack already barely lasts long enough to put out a single burst. Then you gotta go back to re-shielding before setting up the next one, leaving them a full 6 seconds taking very low damage to heal back up.
Sorc's damage is already not 'high'. Certainly not high enough to overpower anyone healing up between bursts.
Old low-sustain, pre-frags, pre-empower nerf DW builds could. But not the current sorc.

What I'm getting at is that sorcs already have to stop attacking to 'shield and buff up'. And that it already makes it hard to kill anyone. All I see here is a combination of lower damage AND longer and more often breaks from attacking... It'll be like... shield-up, curse, start trying to escape ready to shield-up again... As if that single, low-dmg curse will kill anybody...

Sorc NEEDS to be able to stay toe-to-toe for 4 seconds to be able to kill anyone. And if they don't die in the first go, they NEED to be able to quickly get ready to do it again.. Without that, then the burst really needs to become truly dangerous..
I mean its not like there are a ton of fire and forget dots in the sorc's arsenal...