Shield Nerfs Are For Real This Time

Doctordarkspawn

weedgenius wrote: »

"broad changes" "balance sustain" I'm scared...

SAME.

Like I was hoping they would walk back some of the sustain changes but the more I think about it -the more scared I am-.

Kadoin

templesus wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

Exodium wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

I'm guessing its the same downside as the stam user wearing a SnB with hulking + bone pirate spamming absorb magic and rolling when they see a mag char until they get their ult up and explode on them. Bonus points if they are a DK, NB, or Warden, enjoying that HP% heal not touching their stam pool and because eventually they will win that encounter and if they don't it's definitely a player issue.

Also bonus bonus points if they are a stam templar with that setup and 30K+power of the light that strips damage shields instantly and sometimes insta-kills when you get DB + light on you. Omega points if they got bleeds with that and spam defile. No magic user will survive a templar like that unless they can roll or purge. Guess how many magic users can do that in Cyro without sacrificing a LOT of damage or heals and wear light armor? HINT: NONE

Lol absorb magicka? There are mag sorc skills that don't affect that - fury isnt, curse isnt. Also, that skill only reflects the next projectile cast at you, so you think a Stam character is going to just spam a 2.5k cost skill to reflect one projectile? The fact that most magplars and magdks aren't projectile based also means that barely any stamina characters run that skill. So your argument is invalid.

30k power of the light wtf lol are we still in HOTR or something? Stamplar is arguably one of the worst open world classes too so I'm not sure why you're bringing that up to help your case out.

ezio45 wrote: »

Exodium wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

Exodium wrote: »

Kagukan wrote: »

"provide counterplay opportunities for Damage Shield Abilities" can mean a lot of different things. Hopefully the changes are not too bad because my squishy sorc needs his damage shields. Also says changes to light and medium passives so we shall see I guess.

LOL try playing a medium armour stam build in hulkings and bonepirate where a mistake actually means death. So many magicka players (mag sorcs particularly) have had their incompetence and mistakes disguised by 20k shields for about 4 years now.

Honestly, I find playing medium armor builds easier. Esp. the ones with %HP heals. Also, no one forces you to use hulking and bone pirate, you want to and you pay the price for it. Just like if I wear 2x damage set on a light armor build and die in one db + executioner. It's called trade-offs and guess what? The trade-off for being in light is really getting hard to justify in PvP vs heavy in nearly every case.

Wrong, because I see light armour builds running with shackle + necropotence or necro + lich (no defensive sets whatsoever), with 50K max magicka and 2k+ recovery, and 20K+ shields due to their high max magicka pool. Let me know what the downside of the aforementioned setup is please. Also, I do have to run fortified brass/impreg on my stamina toons but that comes at the expense of a set that could give me better resources/damage.

ezio45 wrote: »

Exodium wrote: »

Kagukan wrote: »

"provide counterplay opportunities for Damage Shield Abilities" can mean a lot of different things. Hopefully the changes are not too bad because my squishy sorc needs his damage shields. Also says changes to light and medium passives so we shall see I guess.

LOL try playing a medium armour stam build in hulkings and bonepirate where a mistake actually means death. So many magicka players (mag sorcs particularly) have had their incompetence and mistakes disguised by 20k shields for about 4 years now.

i think stams had there incompetence covered up by high resist, rolldodge and enough stam to cc break and block for 4 yrs looooool how bout you play in light on a mag toon without shields and then come talk to me about survivability cuz stams going pretty god damn good

Really? Do you think resistance means anything when bleeds are becoming so prevalent which go through resistance. Also unmitigateable cc's like rune cage/fossilise can stop you mid dodge-roll, subjecting the player to enough bursts to kill them.

And heavy armour stamina builds have to rely on higher health recovery, but guess what, defile significantly reduces health recovery and we've been in a defile meta for about 6 months now which I've said before.

ooh gee the stam got caught rolldodging i hope he has enough to break free instead of just sitting there getting hit. I hope his 40k stam will be enough

seriously if and stam is getting stun from cc's they suck. theres no excuse to not be able to break free from even fossilizes if stam is your main stat

thats as laughable as a mag complaining about using to much mag and not being able to spam a shield / heal

and guess what, defile meta is dead, stop complaining about it and again, there is heavy if they can tank out long enough to heal there doing something wrong

Erm, no I'm saying that your argument that roll is an amazing form of defence is nullified when you have CC's that go through dodge roll, leaving medium stamina character vulnerable in these situations. Stamina suffers more skills that they can't interact with than magicka.

Shieldbreaker might be your only argument for uninteractable sets/abilites but even then, which players with any dignity run shield breaker?

[1] Absorb magic doesn't reflect a projectile. In its current state it absorbs nearly every magic skill in the game, including soul assault, templar ray and even most elemental/magic proc sets including illambris, grothdarr, bahraha's curse, etc. and any light attack/heavy from any staff It basically shuts down any magic user. The best part is that absorb magic also heals you %HP in addition to negating damage from almost any magic/elemental skill/item set/passive in the game! Who cares if fury and curse are not absorbed when every other skill is and it heals your opponent? Anyone defending this skill in its form on live obviously has no clue how it works or has never been a magic user facing it. The alternative is that they are one of those "unkillable tanks" spamming it. Also don't forget their are other magic classes in the game other than sorc. You can really have a good laugh spamming absorb magic vs. a mag NB.

[2] "30K PotL wtf" really? Is that the best you can do?

[3] "One of the worse open world classes," yet still far superior to magplar, mag warden, superior to a mag NB if you have absorb magic slotted and don't mind wailing like an idiot to uncloak them (but if you have ritual of retribution this isn't hard, trust me I know because I do have 4 templars after all), and also superior to sorc if you wear SnB and, again, simply do exactly what I said in my previous post. I'm not talking air, I've done exactly what I've posted. How else do you think I know this?

Hold up, did you just say stamplar is a superior open world class to mag sorc?

You have to be joking right? Have you even played a stamplar before?

Yeah, I have one that runs either 52K stam OR uses an infinite sustain build (still possible for stam chars, trust me on that one). Also have a hybrid one that is even arguably stronger. Then a mag templar focused on achieving high heals (no proc set), and another mag templar that focuses on stacking defensive sets to "test" ZOS changes (all proc sets). In either case I always have the advantage over mag chars on both the stam and hybrid ones just by slotting abosrb magic, using light and DB. I literally do exactly what I described and 99.9% of mag users can do nothing about that. That combination guaranteed to wipe shields off unless they have another shield on like barrier or whitestrakes/combat physician, but using that would cut into their sustain and damage so many sorcs do not use it (though it is possible to make it work, you gonna have to sacrifice for that. I got a light armor whitestrakes I use sometimes as well on my mag chars. It's only really good if you are stacking healing and have decent damage).

If they are sorc and putting me on defensive, I got invis post to use point blank in their face and then light + DB -> roll (always better to roll after DB, doing this ensure you cant be hit by most skills they have and you can do it essentially at the same time DB+light damage applies...) -> executioner spam. TIP: you can also use DB when falling (for sorc or NB attempting to run off edge). Also do not bother going on the defense. In the words of my brother, who also uses a stamplar, "don't think, just jab" although in this case it's executioner and/or gap closer if they are using a non-meta build and start streaking. Since most mag builds also are vamp because they have terrible sustain, DB + light wrecks them and if it doesn't, I spam executioner, have damage health pot and oblivion glyph + bleed on other bars and trust me no one recovers from that. Stam NB the only one that can escape if they roll after, cloak and run away. Yet people say stamplar is "bad"...The sustain sucks on that build for sure, but who cares when you can win nearly every time your ult is up? Doing this with another person guarantees you can 2vX. Bonus points if you are teamed up with a magplar (I team up with my bro and )

The ultimate result is that NBs "get revenge" when I'm not on my stam char by jumping my mag chars, although that usually does not work out too well for them either unless I took a stretch or they got me running from zerg...

John_Falstaff

Yes, it's a strange feeling. On one hand, it would seem that it can't possibly be worse. On another, each patch everything screams inside "no-no-no, don't touch that, I know how you do things, you will make everything worse again". I want to hope that by 'broad changes' to sustain mean sustain would be improved, but a bit of experience tells it's either "nobody can sustain light rotation anymore, hurray, we made heavy attacks useful again", or a tiny insignificant (and likely randomly proc'd and unreliable, like we got with DKs) bump that would be advertised as fix to everything, and excuse not to ever actually fix things. "Why, you already had a fix recently, what else do you need?" I'm very much afraid of being thrown a token adjustment that won't do anything except dooming me to sit in line for much-needed change forever again.

But hey. Fingers crossed. Miracles must happen sometimes.

Malamar1229

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

And just like that, the last 3 people playing magsorc will leave.

Yup,

The sad thing is damage shields already have plenty of counterplay, more counterplay then any other defensive mechanic and scales worse then any other mechanic as number of attackers increase (I know you know this)

Their basis for these changes puzzles me

.

The basis I believe now is this,
Any MMO out there, the most popular and appealing class is the stealthy assassin type. Therefor it makes sense to appeal to your largest audience. You know now I also main a stamblade, and I can tell you without a seconds thought how much easier it is to play- sustain, innate damage, and especially mobility. I can run two dmg sets on my stamblade with 1500 stam regen and still do fine open world. You think a magsorc with two dmg sets will even touch 1500 magregen with resorting to atronach and witchmother? You think a magsorc can "do fine" with 1500 magregen?

It's no secret to the industry... make your popular class easy and strong.

Malamar1229

Gorilla wrote: »

ItsNebula wrote: »

jediodyn_ESO wrote: »

Shields are broken and imbalanced mechanically. Stacking, no Crit, same survival pool as damage modifier and most of the healing tree with crazy efficiency: They needed a fix.

Don’t QQ till you at least see the new system.

Or people like you can just L2P?

hmmm....I have seen Sorcs 1vX groups of good to great players. Many many many times.

No doubt we can all tailor our builds to double dots, shield breakers, fear + dots, etc etc, but that seems fairly limiting.

This is a blatant lie. There are no more 1vX magsorcs on PC

Feanor

damtotb16_ESO wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Oh no! Now you might actually have to put a heal on your bar like everyone else!

I'm looking forward to see how they intend on improving everyone's sustain. I'm curious to see what kind of changes they're doing to light and medium armor as well.

It's not about healing, it's about avoiding damage.

Magicka characters can only block or dodge 2x before hitting 0 stamina, and with no stamina regen, it's a while before they can do either again. They also don't have evasion for passive damage mitigation.

Shields are the only thing that lets magicka characters survive in endgame content.

Maybe the noobish sorcerers like those who spam endless fury in bg and think they are great, I play magica dk in light armor with no shields and I don't have objection to my survivability. Your statement does not stand

The difference is you have a class burst heal that isn’t a double barred pet.

brandonv516

Counterplay opportunities to me sounds like synergy abilities that might activate to completely negate an active shield.

Lyss1991

This makes me nervous tbh. I main a magsorc, But I dont pvp like that. Im concerned what theyre gonna do to shields and how its gonna effect end game content.

Joy_Division

Can't people wait until they at least see the patch notes before criticizing the changes that they have no idea about?

Sun7dance

Valrien wrote: »

weedgenius wrote: »

"broad changes" "balance sustain" I'm scared...

This is ZOS we're talking about. They don't know any kind of change BUT broad changes.

Their whole method of balancing is "change everything, wait 3 months, and change everything again"

Yes, we already have the Templar execute back and now we get back the resource management before Morrorwind.
The circle of ZOS!

antihero727

Joy_Division wrote: »

Can't people wait until they at least see the patch notes before criticizing the changes that they have no idea about?

With ZOS’s history with these things can you blame us? History has been even if the changes are ok we will still end up with major bugs from them fiddling. It’s not paranoia it’s historical logic. I might push the line but being a mag sorc main since beta this hits close to home too many time lately.

antihero727

Sun7dance wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

weedgenius wrote: »

"broad changes" "balance sustain" I'm scared...

This is ZOS we're talking about. They don't know any kind of change BUT broad changes.

Their whole method of balancing is "change everything, wait 3 months, and change everything again"

Yes, we already have the Templar execute back and now we get back the resource management before Morrorwind.
The circle of ZOS!

Resource management might not be as much of an issue if we didn’t have a resource drain bug since Summerset.

TheYKcid

damtotb16_ESO wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Oh no! Now you might actually have to put a heal on your bar like everyone else!

I'm looking forward to see how they intend on improving everyone's sustain. I'm curious to see what kind of changes they're doing to light and medium armor as well.

It's not about healing, it's about avoiding damage.

Magicka characters can only block or dodge 2x before hitting 0 stamina, and with no stamina regen, it's a while before they can do either again. They also don't have evasion for passive damage mitigation.

Shields are the only thing that lets magicka characters survive in endgame content.

Maybe the noobish sorcerers like those who spam endless fury in bg and think they are great, I play magica dk in light armor with no shields and I don't have objection to my survivability. Your statement does not stand

Light armor magDK is one of the classes I am actively PvPing with this patch, so I'm well aware of what the class can and cannot do.

And unlike your magicka DK, sorcs do not have the benefit of a class spammable, nor any mechanic to restore stamina while block is up, and thus cannot effectively use S&B as a means of survival. What does that leave? You guessed it—shields.

If you can formulate a viable non-shield Sorc build, with combat footage as proof of concept, we'd very much like to see that. Not even sarcastically—most sorcs would LOVE for an alternative playstyle to be viable.

@damtotb16_ESO

Solariken wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Wild guess: Shields will only absorb damage partially, letting some through. Some shields used to work that way at release IIRC. And it ties in with the ZOS statement about shields making heals useless.

This would be my preferred solution with maybe increasing standard duration to 8 seconds.

Shields already melt in less than 2 seconds even against a single opponent. Against a good opponent who knows how and when to pressure, they'll be down withing a single GCD, even. Light attack + spammable + one tick of a DoT. Gone in as much time as it takes to cast. Against even higher pressure, or multiple foes, shields simply won't keep up even when spammed back-to-back.

It's why many sorcs invest into lots of stam sustain, despite the opportunity cost in damage and/or max mag—weaving a roll after shielding preserves it for just a second longer, which buys you much-needed breathing room. The shield by itself just doesn't last long enough in a tight scenario.

Adding 2s to shield duration would be a non-factor cos they're gone long before that anyway, and your suggestion would result in nerfing an already average mechanic without compensating anything practical in return.

@Solariken

Lylith

Starlock wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Starlock wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Starlock wrote: »

The sky is falling, the sky is falling! We can’t actually see the sky right now.... but.... it’s falling! Because I said so!

Aw you poor naive person...you still have faith in ZOS

Aw, you poor presumptuous person... believing that not giving a crap about the meta or min maxing equates to beign naive.

Yes because not wanting your class to be turned into a pile of steaming crap is giving a crap about the meta and min maxing lol

That has never happened in the history of this game and there is little cause to suspect it will. Never have any changes been made that render a class unplayable, or a ‘steaming pile of crap’ ... unless one’s perspective revolves around meta and min maxing or being a competitive power gamer. That’s the only crowd that operates at the level where the changes are really noticeable. For the rest of us? Business as usual. Balance changes impact non-competitive, non meta chasing players very little, and this will be no different. The developers are not going to gut a class to the point is a ‘steaming pile of crap’ to this majority of the playerbase.

did you play stam nb the first couple years of the game?

it pretty much defined 'steaming pile of crap.'

Feanor wrote: »

Zodiac_ wrote: »

This thread is one of the ultimate proofs why mag sorcs users are considered the master-cry babies of this game....

Nothing has been announced yet and the crying is non stop....

Cant wait till Monday

It’s called experience with previous nerfs. Just look at the Rune Cage fiasco where I predicted on the PTS that the class will be worse after the inevitable nerfs. And I was right.

and it's not like that's the first (or second, or third, or fourth, or fifth, or...) nerf to the class.

we've seen this *** before and the ignorance, in this thread, regarding what sorcs can and can't do is most enlightening.

Feanor

Joy_Division wrote: »

Can't people wait until they at least see the patch notes before criticizing the changes that they have no idea about?

Joy, are you still giving Mr. Wrobel the benefit of the doubt after all these years when it comes to changes on class core mechanics?

Emma_Overload

Malamar1229 wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

And just like that, the last 3 people playing magsorc will leave.

Yup,

The sad thing is damage shields already have plenty of counterplay, more counterplay then any other defensive mechanic and scales worse then any other mechanic as number of attackers increase (I know you know this)

Their basis for these changes puzzles me

.

The basis I believe now is this,
Any MMO out there, the most popular and appealing class is the stealthy assassin type. Therefor it makes sense to appeal to your largest audience. You know now I also main a stamblade, and I can tell you without a seconds thought how much easier it is to play- sustain, innate damage, and especially mobility. I can run two dmg sets on my stamblade with 1500 stam regen and still do fine open world. You think a magsorc with two dmg sets will even touch 1500 magregen with resorting to atronach and witchmother? You think a magsorc can "do fine" with 1500 magregen?

It's no secret to the industry... make your popular class easy and strong.

I went wandering around Imperial City yesterday, and for an ENTIRE HOUR, all I saw on all three factions were Nightblades. All the guys I fought were Nightblades, and all the fellow DC who were flipping flags were nightblades, around a dozen players total. Even an old friend who used to main a Sorc on AD attacked me with his brand new Magblade... what is the world coming to?

Merlin13KAGL

Starlock wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Starlock wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Starlock wrote: »

The sky is falling, the sky is falling! We can’t actually see the sky right now.... but.... it’s falling! Because I said so!

Aw you poor naive person...you still have faith in ZOS

Aw, you poor presumptuous person... believing that not giving a crap about the meta or min maxing equates to beign naive.

Yes because not wanting your class to be turned into a pile of steaming crap is giving a crap about the meta and min maxing lol

That has never happened in the history of this game and there is little cause to suspect it will. Never have any changes been made that render a class unplayable, or a ‘steaming pile of crap’ ... unless one’s perspective revolves around meta and min maxing or being a competitive power gamer. That’s the only crowd that operates at the level where the changes are really noticeable. For the rest of us? Business as usual. Balance changes impact non-competitive, non meta chasing players very little, and this will be no different. The developers are not going to gut a class to the point is a ‘steaming pile of crap’ to this majority of the playerbase.

The way you embrace mediocrity is truly noteworthy.

Plenty of times in the history of this game, certainly classes have been effectively 'removed from play' for one or more patches. You don't have to be top 1% to feel the effects.

Just because you don't pursue the content affected, and certainly not to a competitive level, does not change the truth of the matter. There are clear advantages and imbalances present in almost every major update. The only thing that changes is the direction of the shift.

Guppet wrote: »

Could be as simple as you can now crit against shields. No pve impact at all.

Which favors high crit builds (which generally favors stam) and does nothing to help low crit builds.

That's hardly a consistent counterplay opportunity.

Nyladreas wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

weedgenius wrote: »

"broad changes" "balance sustain" I'm scared...

This is ZOS we're talking about. They don't know any kind of change BUT broad changes.

Their whole method of balancing is "change everything, wait 3 months, and change everything again"

Is anyone here even aware that there are new designers working on the game now? People need to stop freaking out.

I can't wait to see what they changed.

I'm kind of expecting shields to become crittable. That would even the odds a bit.

Are you aware those designers are unlikely to make the decisions regarding final outcome of balance issues? The ones that do are the same ones that have been for considerable time.

Guppet wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

@Feanor

Wrong. I pvp on Vivec. Always have.

Maybe just maybe if they allow critics on shields, then maybe just maybe shield users start getting impen and crit resistance cp, you know just like everyone else currently has to.

You cant moan about crits, when the very same cp system that makes your shields insane also has ways to counter crits. There is also a stat just for countering it.

If crits hit you super hard, it’s because you are doing something wrong.

Shield users may need to adapt, I know that’s scarey but you’ll manage it.

I was posting about noCP. Sheesh.

Impen gear still exists there also those guys hitting you in no CP have not inflated thier crit damage with CP have they.

No CP doesn’t only impact the shield user, your all a bunch of squishies there.

Everyone has a base crit modifier of at least 1.5, meaning a crit hit will do 50% more damage than non-crit. 7 impen give you 1806 critical resistance (258 per piece), which reduces the critical modifier to 1.23. The critical hit does 23% more damage then.

You have to take into account though that running impen instead of divines or a combination of infused on big pieces and divines on small pieces results in a lower magicka pool, especially if you’re running the Mage Mundus.

This results in a lower shield value. In essence, your survivability isn’t any greater, but you also sacrifice damage by doing so.

In essence: Impen gimps you in noCP.

Shoutout to @paulsimonps for his excellent damage mitigation breakdown (https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-updated-for-summerset/).

The only difference CP makes to that is that you can’t put any CP into crit resist, but, your opponent can’t put CP to increase his crit damage. They counter each other.

So no CP is not specifically worse than CP by allowing crit on shields.

You may get into weather one is multiplicative rather than additive, but he differences will be teeny tiny.

Non CP would not be hit be the change any more than CP would.

And Shattering Blows is the direct counter to Bastion. What's your point?

Joy_Division wrote: »

Can't people wait until they at least see the patch notes before criticizing the changes that they have no idea about?

I think if the things were more transparent and players were involved in the process, vice just informed about the final results, this would be a lot more likely.

I realize that's what the PTS/class rep system was intended to do, but the track record of good changes, listening to actual feedback, and making legit corrections prior to live is not a strong one.

EDIT: Clarification: *Reps have been doing a fantastic job of providing the information to ZoS. It's still up to ZoS to make use of that information in a reasonable manner.

Solariken

@TheYKcid I definitely hear where you're coming from but I 100% believe shields need a soft counter or weakness of some kind. Nothing too harsh, but SOMETHING that isn't just brute-forcing through them.

I've suggested before that a percentage of shock damage could bypass shields. This would make some sense thematically and also help relieve the stalemate created when using Harness vs other magicka users.

Anyway I'm super interested to see what ZOS actually has planned...

paulsimonps

Guppet wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

@Feanor

Wrong. I pvp on Vivec. Always have.

Maybe just maybe if they allow critics on shields, then maybe just maybe shield users start getting impen and crit resistance cp, you know just like everyone else currently has to.

You cant moan about crits, when the very same cp system that makes your shields insane also has ways to counter crits. There is also a stat just for countering it.

If crits hit you super hard, it’s because you are doing something wrong.

Shield users may need to adapt, I know that’s scarey but you’ll manage it.

I was posting about noCP. Sheesh.

Impen gear still exists there also those guys hitting you in no CP have not inflated thier crit damage with CP have they.

No CP doesn’t only impact the shield user, your all a bunch of squishies there.

Everyone has a base crit modifier of at least 1.5, meaning a crit hit will do 50% more damage than non-crit. 7 impen give you 1806 critical resistance (258 per piece), which reduces the critical modifier to 1.23. The critical hit does 23% more damage then.

You have to take into account though that running impen instead of divines or a combination of infused on big pieces and divines on small pieces results in a lower magicka pool, especially if you’re running the Mage Mundus.

This results in a lower shield value. In essence, your survivability isn’t any greater, but you also sacrifice damage by doing so.

In essence: Impen gimps you in noCP.

Shoutout to @paulsimonps for his excellent damage mitigation breakdown (https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-updated-for-summerset/).

The only difference CP makes to that is that you can’t put any CP into crit resist, but, your opponent can’t put CP to increase his crit damage. They counter each other.

So no CP is not specifically worse than CP by allowing crit on shields.

You may get into weather one is multiplicative rather than additive, but he differences will be teeny tiny.

Non CP would not be hit be the change any more than CP would.

Still got Major and Minor Force in no CP PvP though, and other things can still buff your crit modifier beyond the base 1.5. If Crits can hit damage shields then it won't change that much though I think, still plenty of Mitigation that hits before the shield. Only blocking mitigation and resistance hits after. Might have to have a HoT or two though in addition to the shields... idk, we will see. Mainly just wanted to point out that CP is not the only way to increase crit modifier.

Callum

Emma_Overload wrote: »

I went wandering around Imperial City yesterday, and for an ENTIRE HOUR, all I saw on all three factions were Nightblades. All the guys I fought were Nightblades, and all the fellow DC who were flipping flags were nightblades, around a dozen players total. Even an old friend who used to main a Sorc on AD attacked me with his brand new Magblade... what is the world coming to?

This right here, lol , pretty much describes sewers and imp city alright , nb's hiding in stealth and then attempting to bow gank you or otherwise gank you while fighting mobs , i was just forcing my self to run a *** mag warden build while farming telvar yesterday

crystalized shield , dampen magicka, living trells and ice fortress active 90% of the time, just to not get ganked by some scrubs hiding in stealth 24/7 , i mean NB's need that nerf bat and they need it hard, nb's and sorcs cried so hard about wardens that they got nerfed into oblivion, now you will get a taste

TheYKcid

I'd argue that if said mechanic can already be brute forced-through, why does it need additional counter mechanics? Brute isn't even the right word, because frankly it doesn't take a whole lot to overwhelm shields.

Shock damage wouldn't help btw. Even a Sorc (the archetypal lightning class) only deals it with the execute, and the occasional tickles from Boundless or Streak. Other mag classes deal even less, if any. In this case it's probably Harness that should be reviewed (made better vs. stam, but less of an indefinite turtle tool vs. mag).

Guppet

Callum wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

I went wandering around Imperial City yesterday, and for an ENTIRE HOUR, all I saw on all three factions were Nightblades. All the guys I fought were Nightblades, and all the fellow DC who were flipping flags were nightblades, around a dozen players total. Even an old friend who used to main a Sorc on AD attacked me with his brand new Magblade... what is the world coming to?

This right here, lol , pretty much describes sewers and imp city alright , nb's hiding in stealth and then attempting to bow gank you or otherwise gank you while fighting mobs , i was just forcing my self to run a *** mag warden build while farming telvar yesterday

crystalized shield , dampen magicka, living trells and ice fortress active 90% of the time, just to not get ganked by some scrubs hiding in stealth 24/7 , i mean NB's need that nerf bat and they need it hard, nb's and sorcs cried so hard about wardens that they got nerfed into oblivion, now you will get a taste

That’s not really proof of anything though.

Sewers are a gankers paradise. Now if only there were a class that has an arch type of ganker.

Oh right the most common night blade stereo type is assassin.

So sewers are full of NB’s. It’s not surprising.

It’s also probably the strongest fantasy of all the classes. There’s a reason assassins creed games are so popular.

People know this, so those that are not good gank classes avoid the place.

It’s like a playground. Those that don’t bully, stop going because of the bullies, so eventually you only have bullies left.

RinaldoGandolphi

Malamar1229 wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

And just like that, the last 3 people playing magsorc will leave.

Yup,

The sad thing is damage shields already have plenty of counterplay, more counterplay then any other defensive mechanic and scales worse then any other mechanic as number of attackers increase (I know you know this)

Their basis for these changes puzzles me

.

The basis I believe now is this,
Any MMO out there, the most popular and appealing class is the stealthy assassin type. Therefor it makes sense to appeal to your largest audience. You know now I also main a stamblade, and I can tell you without a seconds thought how much easier it is to play- sustain, innate damage, and especially mobility. I can run two dmg sets on my stamblade with 1500 stam regen and still do fine open world. You think a magsorc with two dmg sets will even touch 1500 magregen with resorting to atronach and witchmother? You think a magsorc can "do fine" with 1500 magregen?

It's no secret to the industry... make your popular class easy and strong.

I 100% agree. Nightblades are the Ninja's of ESO. unmatched mobility, unmatched ability to escape, high front loaded burst, best sustain, and a mechanic that not only makes them invisible, but supress all dot damage to zero...getting 20 ultimate just for drinking a potion...life must be so hard.

Its a real shame it has come to this. I don't even know where you go from here You either play Nightblade, or GTFO it seems.

purple-magicb16_ESO

Daus wrote: »

Oh no! Now you might actually have to put a heal on your bar like everyone else!

I'm looking forward to see how they intend on improving everyone's sustain. I'm curious to see what kind of changes they're doing to light and medium armor as well.

Healing and damage mitigation are two very different things. You need damage mitigation in order to dps a target, otherwise you're just a healing duck sitting in the middle of a lake.

antihero727

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

And just like that, the last 3 people playing magsorc will leave.

Yup,

The sad thing is damage shields already have plenty of counterplay, more counterplay then any other defensive mechanic and scales worse then any other mechanic as number of attackers increase (I know you know this)

Their basis for these changes puzzles me

.

The basis I believe now is this,
Any MMO out there, the most popular and appealing class is the stealthy assassin type. Therefor it makes sense to appeal to your largest audience. You know now I also main a stamblade, and I can tell you without a seconds thought how much easier it is to play- sustain, innate damage, and especially mobility. I can run two dmg sets on my stamblade with 1500 stam regen and still do fine open world. You think a magsorc with two dmg sets will even touch 1500 magregen with resorting to atronach and witchmother? You think a magsorc can "do fine" with 1500 magregen?

It's no secret to the industry... make your popular class easy and strong.

I 100% agree. Nightblades are the Ninja's of ESO. unmatched mobility, unmatched ability to escape, high front loaded burst, best sustain, and a mechanic that not only makes them invisible, but supress all dot damage to zero...getting 20 ultimate just for drinking a potion...life must be so hard.

Its a real shame it has come to this. I don't even know where you go from here You either play Nightblade, or GTFO it seems.

What we are seeing is nb reparations for the first 6 months after launch. The sorcs are the ones footing most of the bill for it though. Magplars paid first but were ran dry and someone had to pick up the slack, mag sorc. It all makes more sense now right?

Odovacar

coop500 wrote: »

I hope it won't be a bunch more nerfs... I've seen enough nerfs over the last few patches

IKR! I get changes here and there but 2018 has been a tough year for many classes and sets. Let it ride for a quarter or so, ugh!

Guppet

“Stop the Nerfs”

“Content is too easy”

Maybe they have to do one to fix the other.

Banana

Lets hope Gilliam came up with something and not the usual bunch.

Septimus_Magna

Guppet wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Could be as simple as you can now crit against shields. No pve impact at all.

I wonder how they will balance that, you can amp up crit dmg pretty significantly and shields have zero mitigation.
Even if shields would have resistance similar to the caster they would melt quick.

Maybe give shields max resistance but allow crits or something?
Or increase shield size based on the caster's spell crit.

That would actually be a massive buff to shields. Max resistance is 50% damage resistance.

So you’d half the incoming damage with potential to crit for 1.26% after impen!

That’s the opposite of what they want to do.

Maybe they allow your actual resistance to impact the damage your shield absorbs. I’m sure we would see some funky heavy Armor shield builds then. Blazing shield woukd be back. Now I like that lol.

Shield value needs to be adjusted if shields get high resist ofc.

If you just give a shield the casters resist it gets 13k resist of which roughly 8k will be penetrated so you leave 5k resist which mitigates 7.6% dmg. At base crit modifier you increase dmg 150% with a crit rating of roughly 40% so the dmg is increased by 20%. So at base crit dmg modifier and crit rating shields would get 12.4% weaker.

I think there has to be a spell crit value in there somewhere to make it more balanced.
Curious to see what ZOS comes up with.

Derra

Zodiac_ wrote: »

And although you have valid points i cant agree with you because i dont feel its right to complain about an upcoming change that will affect sorcs when there are two other magicka classes that not not only will be equally affected but are in a very poor place at the present state of the game

Thats why i find it really 'strange' to see mag sorcs complaining already for the changes and especially now that we dont even know what these changes will be

What classes would those be @Zodiac_ and what gameactivity are you speaking of? Warden and templar sure have a hard time soloing - but i´d put both above sorc currently when thinking of grouping.

And no other magica class will be affected in the same way sorcs are - because none has the same dependency on shields. Literally all other magica classes work without shields to some extend. Sorc becomes simply noncompetetive.

the complaining is simply fueled by almost 4.5 years of past experiences of what counterplay and balancing means to zos.
Picture a big hammer.