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Fake tanks
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susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I see no reason not to queue as tank on Normal dungeons on DPS setup. I solo them under fast enough anyways. Can't wait 20+ min for a random normal dungeon when I finish it solo before that time. I have backup tank setups if I get DLC dungeons any chance. I can wait for people on quests but can't wait on sub-50 DPS light attacking their way through.1 -
Cadbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭stitchesofdooom wrote: »MooseKnuckles88 wrote: »I pug up about +90% of the time when I run dungeons and out of that I would say I'm experiencing 1 out 3 that include fake tanks queued in. Some even admit to being a fake tank at the start or mid run. I usually don't care until the entire group starts to expect me to lead the charge the whole way. I only have 16.5k health, but I can only take a beating so much and at that point it gets annoying. How often do you experience the fake tanks in your queues?
it's fake healers that bug me. I had a real eletist steam who expected me, a stamblade, to heal myself.
We should have the option to report fake role queuers on kick. There should be a consequesnce.
This has been suggested before. As I recall, most of the suggestions for punishment were things like a 12 hour ban to a 3 day ban for repeat offenders.Azuramoonstar wrote: »Azuramoonstar wrote: »jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »I am amazed by the fact that the Lead Designer (was it the Designer, yes?) introduced himself like last week, and after more tha na year in the game he (none in ZOS apparently) still did not come up with the idea of adding the option, i nthe gorup finder, to have an all DD run. A simple checkbox that groups 4 people that do not care about roles.
If you ever watch them play, it's nothing like how experienced players play. It's like watching one of those adverts where they make it 'look' epic. They use heavy attacks etc all the time.
It's no wonder that they haven't thought of this because its so far out of their reality. 4 DPS in a group dungeon? that'll never work...
See if you can find the footage of the time that they went into live PVP. It was a sight to behold.
That's been my experience as well. Fake tanks are usually god awful players who just make the run more difficult. They certainly aren't elite damage-dealing tanks we should just all be grateful to for gracing us with their presence because they make the dungeon so much faster and easier.
That being said though: I don't see the harm in giving players an option to join a queue that doesn't recognize roles. Some players enjoy running around like headless chickens while things chase them. I don't know why - but they do.
do preform parties for that stuff, random que shouldn't be about doing w/e. Back in my day pugs were not bad, since WoW all ppl think are pug are bad. Which seems to let people think they can do w/e. People are less inclined to kick ppl for not playing their role.
I would agree that self-made parties are the ideal way to go. But still, if adding such a feature would reduce the amount of fake tanks in the queue pools for the rest of us it's hard for me to think of a good reason not to add it. So it may would help the situation.
again ff14 has classes/jobs with set roles and still have the same issue. All you can do is kick players out. If people are not doing their role kick. No matter what Zos does, no one can force people to play well. Only way to do it is if the community banded together and kick ppl out who don't do their roles.
I played Final Fantasy 14 for several years and don't ever remember this being a problem on that game.
From what I recall the problem in FFXIV wasn't so much fake tanks as general noobiness. People complained all the time about how newer players were ruining the game by not studying their role or learning dungeon mechanics before they queued. This was a hot topic even after they introduced the Mentor system and Hall of Novices."If a person is truly desirous of something, perhaps being set on fire does not seem so bad."0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭stitchesofdooom wrote: »MooseKnuckles88 wrote: »I pug up about +90% of the time when I run dungeons and out of that I would say I'm experiencing 1 out 3 that include fake tanks queued in. Some even admit to being a fake tank at the start or mid run. I usually don't care until the entire group starts to expect me to lead the charge the whole way. I only have 16.5k health, but I can only take a beating so much and at that point it gets annoying. How often do you experience the fake tanks in your queues?
it's fake healers that bug me. I had a real eletist steam who expected me, a stamblade, to heal myself.
We should have the option to report fake role queuers on kick. There should be a consequesnce.
This has been suggested before. As I recall, most of the suggestions for punishment were things like a 12 hour ban to a 3 day ban for repeat offenders.Azuramoonstar wrote: »Azuramoonstar wrote: »jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »I am amazed by the fact that the Lead Designer (was it the Designer, yes?) introduced himself like last week, and after more tha na year in the game he (none in ZOS apparently) still did not come up with the idea of adding the option, i nthe gorup finder, to have an all DD run. A simple checkbox that groups 4 people that do not care about roles.
If you ever watch them play, it's nothing like how experienced players play. It's like watching one of those adverts where they make it 'look' epic. They use heavy attacks etc all the time.
It's no wonder that they haven't thought of this because its so far out of their reality. 4 DPS in a group dungeon? that'll never work...
See if you can find the footage of the time that they went into live PVP. It was a sight to behold.
That's been my experience as well. Fake tanks are usually god awful players who just make the run more difficult. They certainly aren't elite damage-dealing tanks we should just all be grateful to for gracing us with their presence because they make the dungeon so much faster and easier.
That being said though: I don't see the harm in giving players an option to join a queue that doesn't recognize roles. Some players enjoy running around like headless chickens while things chase them. I don't know why - but they do.
do preform parties for that stuff, random que shouldn't be about doing w/e. Back in my day pugs were not bad, since WoW all ppl think are pug are bad. Which seems to let people think they can do w/e. People are less inclined to kick ppl for not playing their role.
I would agree that self-made parties are the ideal way to go. But still, if adding such a feature would reduce the amount of fake tanks in the queue pools for the rest of us it's hard for me to think of a good reason not to add it. So it may would help the situation.
again ff14 has classes/jobs with set roles and still have the same issue. All you can do is kick players out. If people are not doing their role kick. No matter what Zos does, no one can force people to play well. Only way to do it is if the community banded together and kick ppl out who don't do their roles.
I played Final Fantasy 14 for several years and don't ever remember this being a problem on that game.
From what I recall the problem in FFXIV wasn't so much fake tanks as general noobiness. People complained all the time about how newer players were ruining the game by not studying their role or learning dungeon mechanics before they queued. This was a hot topic even after they introduced the Mentor system and Hall of Novices.
Not surprising considering nearly every pug group on that game expected their members to be able to deal with massive pulls where the slightest lag spike or mistake would mean instant wipe.
I've never played a game with such an absurd community before. It even beats out ESO - which is pretty bad when it comes to kicking other players over trivial reasons. But Final Fantasy 14 takes the cake. That was the most obnoxious group of players I've ever encountered on any video game.Edited by Jeremy on September 4, 2018 10:32AM1 -
Cadbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭stitchesofdooom wrote: »MooseKnuckles88 wrote: »I pug up about +90% of the time when I run dungeons and out of that I would say I'm experiencing 1 out 3 that include fake tanks queued in. Some even admit to being a fake tank at the start or mid run. I usually don't care until the entire group starts to expect me to lead the charge the whole way. I only have 16.5k health, but I can only take a beating so much and at that point it gets annoying. How often do you experience the fake tanks in your queues?
it's fake healers that bug me. I had a real eletist steam who expected me, a stamblade, to heal myself.
We should have the option to report fake role queuers on kick. There should be a consequesnce.
This has been suggested before. As I recall, most of the suggestions for punishment were things like a 12 hour ban to a 3 day ban for repeat offenders.Azuramoonstar wrote: »Azuramoonstar wrote: »jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »I am amazed by the fact that the Lead Designer (was it the Designer, yes?) introduced himself like last week, and after more tha na year in the game he (none in ZOS apparently) still did not come up with the idea of adding the option, i nthe gorup finder, to have an all DD run. A simple checkbox that groups 4 people that do not care about roles.
If you ever watch them play, it's nothing like how experienced players play. It's like watching one of those adverts where they make it 'look' epic. They use heavy attacks etc all the time.
It's no wonder that they haven't thought of this because its so far out of their reality. 4 DPS in a group dungeon? that'll never work...
See if you can find the footage of the time that they went into live PVP. It was a sight to behold.
That's been my experience as well. Fake tanks are usually god awful players who just make the run more difficult. They certainly aren't elite damage-dealing tanks we should just all be grateful to for gracing us with their presence because they make the dungeon so much faster and easier.
That being said though: I don't see the harm in giving players an option to join a queue that doesn't recognize roles. Some players enjoy running around like headless chickens while things chase them. I don't know why - but they do.
do preform parties for that stuff, random que shouldn't be about doing w/e. Back in my day pugs were not bad, since WoW all ppl think are pug are bad. Which seems to let people think they can do w/e. People are less inclined to kick ppl for not playing their role.
I would agree that self-made parties are the ideal way to go. But still, if adding such a feature would reduce the amount of fake tanks in the queue pools for the rest of us it's hard for me to think of a good reason not to add it. So it may would help the situation.
again ff14 has classes/jobs with set roles and still have the same issue. All you can do is kick players out. If people are not doing their role kick. No matter what Zos does, no one can force people to play well. Only way to do it is if the community banded together and kick ppl out who don't do their roles.
I played Final Fantasy 14 for several years and don't ever remember this being a problem on that game.
From what I recall the problem in FFXIV wasn't so much fake tanks as general noobiness. People complained all the time about how newer players were ruining the game by not studying their role or learning dungeon mechanics before they queued. This was a hot topic even after they introduced the Mentor system and Hall of Novices.
Not surprising considering nearly every pug group on that game expected their members to be able to deal with massive pulls where the slightest lag spike or mistake would mean instant wipe.
I've never played a game with such an absurd community before. It even beats out ESO - which is pretty bad when it comes to kicking other players over trivial reasons. But Final Fantasy 14 takes the cake. That was the most obnoxious group of players I've ever encountered on any video game.
I remember very early on running a dungeon (Sastasha normal) and someone asked the tank if they watched a certain streamer's dungeon video guides for Sastasha. Again, this was for the normal version. The player seemed pretty upset when the tank said he didn't watch any videos before queueing. This pretty much summed up what was to come in the future.
That being said, I lucked out and found out about the growing English community on the JP servers so I started playing on them. It was a night-and-day difference in comparison to the US/EU servers. I never looked back once I moved"If a person is truly desirous of something, perhaps being set on fire does not seem so bad."0 -
Azuramoonstar✭✭✭✭stitchesofdooom wrote: »MooseKnuckles88 wrote: »I pug up about +90% of the time when I run dungeons and out of that I would say I'm experiencing 1 out 3 that include fake tanks queued in. Some even admit to being a fake tank at the start or mid run. I usually don't care until the entire group starts to expect me to lead the charge the whole way. I only have 16.5k health, but I can only take a beating so much and at that point it gets annoying. How often do you experience the fake tanks in your queues?
it's fake healers that bug me. I had a real eletist steam who expected me, a stamblade, to heal myself.
We should have the option to report fake role queuers on kick. There should be a consequesnce.
This has been suggested before. As I recall, most of the suggestions for punishment were things like a 12 hour ban to a 3 day ban for repeat offenders.Azuramoonstar wrote: »Azuramoonstar wrote: »jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »I am amazed by the fact that the Lead Designer (was it the Designer, yes?) introduced himself like last week, and after more tha na year in the game he (none in ZOS apparently) still did not come up with the idea of adding the option, i nthe gorup finder, to have an all DD run. A simple checkbox that groups 4 people that do not care about roles.
If you ever watch them play, it's nothing like how experienced players play. It's like watching one of those adverts where they make it 'look' epic. They use heavy attacks etc all the time.
It's no wonder that they haven't thought of this because its so far out of their reality. 4 DPS in a group dungeon? that'll never work...
See if you can find the footage of the time that they went into live PVP. It was a sight to behold.
That's been my experience as well. Fake tanks are usually god awful players who just make the run more difficult. They certainly aren't elite damage-dealing tanks we should just all be grateful to for gracing us with their presence because they make the dungeon so much faster and easier.
That being said though: I don't see the harm in giving players an option to join a queue that doesn't recognize roles. Some players enjoy running around like headless chickens while things chase them. I don't know why - but they do.
do preform parties for that stuff, random que shouldn't be about doing w/e. Back in my day pugs were not bad, since WoW all ppl think are pug are bad. Which seems to let people think they can do w/e. People are less inclined to kick ppl for not playing their role.
I would agree that self-made parties are the ideal way to go. But still, if adding such a feature would reduce the amount of fake tanks in the queue pools for the rest of us it's hard for me to think of a good reason not to add it. So it may would help the situation.
again ff14 has classes/jobs with set roles and still have the same issue. All you can do is kick players out. If people are not doing their role kick. No matter what Zos does, no one can force people to play well. Only way to do it is if the community banded together and kick ppl out who don't do their roles.
I played Final Fantasy 14 for several years and don't ever remember this being a problem on that game.
From what I recall the problem in FFXIV wasn't so much fake tanks as general noobiness. People complained all the time about how newer players were ruining the game by not studying their role or learning dungeon mechanics before they queued. This was a hot topic even after they introduced the Mentor system and Hall of Novices.
Not surprising considering nearly every pug group on that game expected their members to be able to deal with massive pulls where the slightest lag spike or mistake would mean instant wipe.
I've never played a game with such an absurd community before. It even beats out ESO - which is pretty bad when it comes to kicking other players over trivial reasons. But Final Fantasy 14 takes the cake. That was the most obnoxious group of players I've ever encountered on any video game.
I remember very early on running a dungeon (Sastasha normal) and someone asked the tank if they watched a certain streamer's dungeon video guides for Sastasha. Again, this was for the normal version. The player seemed pretty upset when the tank said he didn't watch any videos before queueing. This pretty much summed up what was to come in the future.
That being said, I lucked out and found out about the growing English community on the JP servers so I started playing on them. It was a night-and-day difference in comparison to the US/EU servers. I never looked back once I moved
Ya tonberry was the best server, your expeience happen to me daily. I mained tank after SE *** up my main class (monk), and almost any time i tanked i was "doing it wrong" no matter what guide i followed. I would ask for tios only tip i got was "google it" i was more used to the ff11 community. People actually helped you out, no relying on google or youtube.
Game even added a novice network that was taken over as a zone chat. And the novice trials and not even suggested. Even though you got good gear and a gresst exp ring.Long time mmo player: 2004-[current year]
Long time Elder scrolls player: Xbox launch morrowind.
Follower of the dawn and dusk, keeper of the moon and star.1 -
Azuramoonstar✭✭✭✭Azuramoonstar wrote: »Azuramoonstar wrote: »jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »I am amazed by the fact that the Lead Designer (was it the Designer, yes?) introduced himself like last week, and after more tha na year in the game he (none in ZOS apparently) still did not come up with the idea of adding the option, i nthe gorup finder, to have an all DD run. A simple checkbox that groups 4 people that do not care about roles.
If you ever watch them play, it's nothing like how experienced players play. It's like watching one of those adverts where they make it 'look' epic. They use heavy attacks etc all the time.
It's no wonder that they haven't thought of this because its so far out of their reality. 4 DPS in a group dungeon? that'll never work...
See if you can find the footage of the time that they went into live PVP. It was a sight to behold.
That's been my experience as well. Fake tanks are usually god awful players who just make the run more difficult. They certainly aren't elite damage-dealing tanks we should just all be grateful to for gracing us with their presence because they make the dungeon so much faster and easier.
That being said though: I don't see the harm in giving players an option to join a queue that doesn't recognize roles. Some players enjoy running around like headless chickens while things chase them. I don't know why - but they do.
do preform parties for that stuff, random que shouldn't be about doing w/e. Back in my day pugs were not bad, since WoW all ppl think are pug are bad. Which seems to let people think they can do w/e. People are less inclined to kick ppl for not playing their role.
I would agree that self-made parties are the ideal way to go. But still, if adding such a feature would reduce the amount of fake tanks in the queue pools for the rest of us it's hard for me to think of a good reason not to add it. So it may would help the situation.
again ff14 has classes/jobs with set roles and still have the same issue. All you can do is kick players out. If people are not doing their role kick. No matter what Zos does, no one can force people to play well. Only way to do it is if the community banded together and kick ppl out who don't do their roles.
I played Final Fantasy 14 for several years and don't ever remember this being a problem on that game. There was always a tank in my runs who would proceed to pull the entire or at least half the dungeon (which got old I can tell you). But its been awhile since I played that game. So maybe it's a problem now.
In any case: you're not understanding my point I don't think. I"m not suggesting fake tanks shouldn't be kicked (they should). But there is a significant amount of players with this mindset that it's ok for them queue up as tanks or healers with their DPS characters for dungeons they don't feel "need" tanks and healers. So allowing these players an option to queue up for an alternate set up that doesn't recognize specific roles might be a win win.
They get their DPS-loaded groups and the rest of us get our traditional groups. There would be no excuses for them to lie about their roles then. So I don't really see a downside.
I know your problem, and yes ff14 does have the same problem i just quit a few months ago over a recent change, and the game is only 6 years old. Nothing zos can do to fix players, they can't make players play a certain way. If people don't wanna do something they won't no amount of pubishment will force it.
Only fix is everyone in the community needs to agree that the behavior is bad and kick ppl out of parties. That it.
Se added a ton of punishments for leaving a dungeon midway but it still never stopped people from leaving.Long time mmo player: 2004-[current year]
Long time Elder scrolls player: Xbox launch morrowind.
Follower of the dawn and dusk, keeper of the moon and star.0 -
jaschacasadiob16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Azuramoonstar wrote: »again ff14 has classes/jobs with set roles and still have the same issue. All you can do is kick players out. If people are not doing their role kick. No matter what Zos does, no one can force people to play well. Only way to do it is if the community banded together and kick ppl out who don't do their roles.
You ZOS could implement a proper black list. You will no longer get grouped with anyone in tha tlist. If fake tanks, healers and jrks overall start to get blackliste,d htey will end up not playing through the gorup finder at all.
Of course, they wouldn't even be able to get grouped once they start playing their real role. Good punishment, I'd say.
Not that hard to implement, technically. Hello @ZOS_RobGarrett"Yesterday while searching a barrel in vVoM I found a lemon. Best drop of the whole run."
Protect the weak. Heal the sick.
Treasure the gifts of friendship. Seek joy and inspiration in the mysteries of love.
Honor the Earth, its creatures, and the spirits. Use Nature's gifts wisely. Respect her power. Fear her fury.0 -
Tabbycat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭So does this mean I can be a magden clothie ice/resto staff tank/healer? With my bear holding all the aggro, of course.Founder and Co-GM of The Psijic Order Guild (NA)
0.016%0 -
haelene✭✭✭✭✭
✭The biggest problem I have with fake tanks is that they seem to be oblivious to the fact that someone will have to take aggro. The bosses don't just stop attacking because you're selfish, and DPS/Healers did not sign up to do that job, period. If you're taking aggro, then fine. If not, then don't be a ***. Simple.3 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭IDK if you mean people who Q as the wrong Role or people who are New to Tanking...
But
For me, I started the game off healing all the way up to Max CP and really only just started branching off and focusing on DPS and Tanking. Sometimes people see your level and expect you to know exactly what you're doing at all times but some are more or less experienced with certain roles and classes.
If you're doing normals you should have some patience because those are there for new players to learn the mechanics.
If you're doing vet then you should expect someone who knows what they're doing but again, don't complain if you're Q-ing in randomly. Even normal players have a first go at Vet and can't be expected to perform better than they are capable without first getting better gear and monster helms from Vet dungeons.
Everyone has to start somewhere and I think whiney posts like this scare people off tanking and away altogether.
Life-long Vets need to learn to stop bullying and either only play with people you know who will move at your speed or be willing to teach new players or at the very least tolerate them and wait for them to improve, unless you want the game to die.
Don't be so anti-social this is an MMO.
When we talk about fake tanks, we generally mean people who queue as a tank and refuse to slot a taunt or hold boss aggro even when asked to.
I've run with new tanks. I've run with a few new tanks who didn't have a taunt slotted. When the group asked those new tanks to slot a taunt and explained how to do it, the new player did, because they actually want to be a decent tank.
I've run with a lot of fake tanks. I've asked a lot of fake tanks to please slot a taunt and actually hold boss aggro. I have yet to see one of them listen and slot a taunt when asked.
I can have a lot of patience with new players. They are, at the very least, trying to fulfill their role. I have very little patience with people who queue as tank fully intending to play the role of DPS and who refuse to actually tank when it becomes clear that the group would benefit from a tank. A new tank is trying and learning - that's fine by me. A fake tank expects me to do their job when I get boss aggro - as a healer that's annoying AF to me.1 -
Jinchuu✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »
I can have a lot of patience with new players. They are, at the very least, trying to fulfill their role. I have very little patience with people who queue as tank fully intending to play the role of DPS and who refuse to actually tank when it becomes clear that the group would benefit from a tank. A new tank is trying and learning - that's fine by me. A fake tank expects me to do their job when I get boss aggro - as a healer that's annoying AF to me.
It's even more awesome when you get a fake tank and bad dps so you end up having to do everything as the healer, such a blast!Unless you are willing to be a mindless sycophant and/or coddle others due to their insecurities prepare to be harrased by the Orwellian enforcers on these forums. You should also try to refrain from using any words more complex than those used by a small child due to the fact that said enforcers have made it clear that their vocabulary pool is aenemic.4 -
jaschacasadiob16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
Correct, but the tank is probably the only one able to survive the boss ranged attack.Don't forget the final boss in tempest island... that boss doesn't hold taunt.
Why would yo uever need it? Well, imagine someone was killed and he is now far from the fight. To get him back up the tank moves there, survives the ranged attack so that the whole gorup can safely move and revive the dead party member, without anyone else getting one shotted."Yesterday while searching a barrel in vVoM I found a lemon. Best drop of the whole run."
Protect the weak. Heal the sick.
Treasure the gifts of friendship. Seek joy and inspiration in the mysteries of love.
Honor the Earth, its creatures, and the spirits. Use Nature's gifts wisely. Respect her power. Fear her fury.1 -
pierrenuiz✭✭✭If you dont like fake tank , be a tank ,
my StamSorc DD 780+ can switch to a very good Tank build (addon)
so I do all the vet dungeons (non DLC but I think they could be done ... I've never try them with this tank)
I begin dungeon as a DD and i do Hm final boss in tank mode (I always say it to the other players at the beggening )
with that you can always find a group for pledges , and every thing will be ok in the dungeon
0 -
HeroOfNone✭✭✭✭✭
✭I dual roll dps & tank, most can with the change of a set, it's not too difficult. So I'd give folks a second when they come into a dungeon and see if they are all setup. Some even will DPS trash mobs and go tank setup on the first boss. Be sure to say hello, ask questions, and if they are unresponsive, drop group or kick them from group. Communication is more important than roles.
Health wise I'd say most tanks should be 25k+ (at least) and preferably in the 30k range for general content, 35-40k for vet DLC stuff.
For DPS, unless you know what you're going into or have done enough dungeons to trust dungeon finder not to stick you in a DLC Dungeon, I think more of you should be going 18k-20k. That should be done assuming the tank is not going to be wearing ebon. Sorry DPS, it's on you to make sure you have the health to get through a pug. Keep copies of your sets using different glyphs if you still want to min/max your build a bit.
Now there are some dungeons you can 3 dps 1 healer through, but typically you have a guild for that. Trying to pug DPS rush ends in disaster a lot of the times.Edited by HeroOfNone on September 4, 2018 1:55PM2 -
Azuramoonstar✭✭✭✭jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »Azuramoonstar wrote: »again ff14 has classes/jobs with set roles and still have the same issue. All you can do is kick players out. If people are not doing their role kick. No matter what Zos does, no one can force people to play well. Only way to do it is if the community banded together and kick ppl out who don't do their roles.
You ZOS could implement a proper black list. You will no longer get grouped with anyone in tha tlist. If fake tanks, healers and jrks overall start to get blackliste,d htey will end up not playing through the gorup finder at all.
Of course, they wouldn't even be able to get grouped once they start playing their real role. Good punishment, I'd say.
Not that hard to implement, technically. Hello @ZOS_RobGarrett
ff14 does it, still has the same problems. No amount of punishments zos can add will fix this, it is a player made issues and players have tools to fox it. Vote kick people who don't play their roles.
Some people just don't care enough to vote kick or blacklist. The entire community needs to be on the same page for this to work. Which with how MMO are made today that just don't happen.
ff11 had 90% of the community on the same page with a international black list on various fan sites.
ff14 also suffers from "vote kick abuse" and "leaving mid dungeon" yet they still occur. ff14 on;y lets you kick a person out once every 4 hours. Yet it still happens, And for leaving mid dungeon you have a 30 min lock out of all content regardless (unless it was a full pre-form group) and if you keep doing it you get locked out for 3-4 hours (i forget as i rarely do it)
tons of backlash happen. Adding more punishments doesn't always fix the issue. The community does need to step up also and instead of being "me me me", help those who ask for it, and kick out people who don't play their role.
And not to agree with ppl who claim stuff can be done w/o x role.
i've been playing mmo since 2004, i've sen it all. At times the community needs to step up and act like one. calling for Zos to fix a player issues isn't going tp fix the player issue.Long time mmo player: 2004-[current year]
Long time Elder scrolls player: Xbox launch morrowind.
Follower of the dawn and dusk, keeper of the moon and star.1 -
jaschacasadiob16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Azuramoonstar wrote: »ff14 does it, still has the same problems. No amount of punishments zos can add will fix this, it is a player made issues and players have tools to fox it. Vote kick people who don't play their roles.
Some people just don't care enough to vote kick or blacklist. The entire community needs to be on the same page for this to work. Which with how MMO are made today that just don't happen.
ff11 had 90% of the community on the same page with a international black list on various fan sites.
ff14 also suffers from "vote kick abuse" and "leaving mid dungeon" yet they still occur. ff14 on;y lets you kick a person out once every 4 hours. Yet it still happens, And for leaving mid dungeon you have a 30 min lock out of all content regardless (unless it was a full pre-form group) and if you keep doing it you get locked out for 3-4 hours (i forget as i rarely do it)
tons of backlash happen. Adding more punishments doesn't always fix the issue. The community does need to step up also and instead of being "me me me", help those who ask for it, and kick out people who don't play their role.
And not to agree with ppl who claim stuff can be done w/o x role.
i've been playing mmo since 2004, i've sen it all. At times the community needs to step up and act like one. calling for Zos to fix a player issues isn't going tp fix the player issue.
I have no experience nor love for FF, so I don't know hte details of how and how successfully it was tackled there. If you had a personal blacklist, at least you would be able to decide who to be grouped with.
If you are fine with fake tanks/healers and scrubs, you will list annoying people who complaing about you tanking with a bow and 14K health.
If you want proper roles and, anyway, avoid playing with questionable people, you would have the chance to slowly populate your own list and make sure you never play with them again.
Technically is nothing but a key:value structure, with key being an ID and value a list of IDs who blacklisted it. The group find tool picks an ID in the waiting line. Then the second and adds it to the list, if the the second ID does not appear in the list associated to the first ID. This does not really impact the performance of the algorithm."Yesterday while searching a barrel in vVoM I found a lemon. Best drop of the whole run."
Protect the weak. Heal the sick.
Treasure the gifts of friendship. Seek joy and inspiration in the mysteries of love.
Honor the Earth, its creatures, and the spirits. Use Nature's gifts wisely. Respect her power. Fear her fury.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭pierrenuiz wrote: »addon _ AlphaGear is perfect if you want to switch SKILLS and STUFF
Approximately 60% of the player base isn’t able to use alpha gear. This forum section and this thread cover all six servers of the three platforms.
Not that I’ve found fake tanks to be that big of an issue. I cannot say I’ve found someone who queued as a tank and didn’t use a taunt on the bosses.0 -
Jayman1000✭✭✭✭✭
✭MooseKnuckles88 wrote: »I pug up about +90% of the time when I run dungeons and out of that I would say I'm experiencing 1 out 3 that include fake tanks queued in. Some even admit to being a fake tank at the start or mid run. I usually don't care until the entire group starts to expect me to lead the charge the whole way. I only have 16.5k health, but I can only take a beating so much and at that point it gets annoying. How often do you experience the fake tanks in your queues?
I have decided I want to use the queue as tank as much as possible going forward. It's great knowing you can always get in immediately 0 -
Azuramoonstar✭✭✭✭jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »Azuramoonstar wrote: »ff14 does it, still has the same problems. No amount of punishments zos can add will fix this, it is a player made issues and players have tools to fox it. Vote kick people who don't play their roles.
Some people just don't care enough to vote kick or blacklist. The entire community needs to be on the same page for this to work. Which with how MMO are made today that just don't happen.
ff11 had 90% of the community on the same page with a international black list on various fan sites.
ff14 also suffers from "vote kick abuse" and "leaving mid dungeon" yet they still occur. ff14 on;y lets you kick a person out once every 4 hours. Yet it still happens, And for leaving mid dungeon you have a 30 min lock out of all content regardless (unless it was a full pre-form group) and if you keep doing it you get locked out for 3-4 hours (i forget as i rarely do it)
tons of backlash happen. Adding more punishments doesn't always fix the issue. The community does need to step up also and instead of being "me me me", help those who ask for it, and kick out people who don't play their role.
And not to agree with ppl who claim stuff can be done w/o x role.
i've been playing mmo since 2004, i've sen it all. At times the community needs to step up and act like one. calling for Zos to fix a player issues isn't going tp fix the player issue.
I have no experience nor love for FF, so I don't know hte details of how and how successfully it was tackled there. If you had a personal blacklist, at least you would be able to decide who to be grouped with.
If you are fine with fake tanks/healers and scrubs, you will list annoying people who complaing about you tanking with a bow and 14K health.
If you want proper roles and, anyway, avoid playing with questionable people, you would have the chance to slowly populate your own list and make sure you never play with them again.
Technically is nothing but a key:value structure, with key being an ID and value a list of IDs who blacklisted it. The group find tool picks an ID in the waiting line. Then the second and adds it to the list, if the the second ID does not appear in the list associated to the first ID. This does not really impact the performance of the algorithm.
i played more mmo then just ff14, it is just ff14 is my most recent. It has the black list you speak of (and eso has a blacklist on console you block the player in full on psn and assuming on xbox live) and the problem still exist.
I am not fine with subpar gaming. I consider myself fairly hardcore as i try to build character with good stats, I don't follow metas personally as i found them (in my experience with ff11) pretty bad only using 20% power the class can do.
when you blacklist a person in ff14, you remove all contact. You couldn't join groups they lead, or run into them in df (duty finder) there was a chance you run into them with preformed groups, but again you can leave or warn the group leader.
ff14 has the same issues though, if you want control over your group, make them. Vote kick people who don't play their roles.
Asking for more punishments from Zos doesn't fix it, and only screw over players who don't cause issues. I saw it with ff14, with the duty block if you leave mid dungeon. Id leave a dungeon over difference of opinion, or being harassed. Yet i get punished because the community wanted SE to fix a player made problem.
I miss the old mmo days where communities were real communities. You outcast trolls and promoted good play. Now a days ppl are too focused on "my time" and consider everyone beneath themselves.
MMo were built on the back of table top rpg, yet we no longer treat them as such. ff11 had a great community when i plated (no longer does) we didn't run to SE every time a community issue popped up we came together as a community on various fan site to promote good play, and spread stuff via word of mouth. Saying "no you can do not or we will kick you" ff11 still had their trolls but they were few and far between.
Like i said i'm coming from a generation of playing mmo where pick up groups were not bad, people were more then willing to give tips and help each other, It was never parser this, google that "stop wasting my time". no fake tank bs arguments.
no offence but this concept of fake tanks, and Zos needing to fix it comes off as petty. What is wrong with forming your own groups? what is wrong with vote kicking players who meet your standards of play, and just dropping it? Why does everything need to have some big punishment as if Zos is mommy with a switch?
I'm just here to play and enjoy a game set in my fav universe. I've personally wanted an MMO Elder scrolls game since morrowind in 2003. I rather not see players get punished for every little thing because people "don't want to waste time" forming bonds, making networks and build their own groups with like minded players.
Long time mmo player: 2004-[current year]
Long time Elder scrolls player: Xbox launch morrowind.
Follower of the dawn and dusk, keeper of the moon and star.0 -
GawdSB✭✭✭✭✭There honestly needs to be something that punishes or prevents people from doing this.
I don't queue up for dps to spam shields and kite the boss while the fake tank does subpar dps and wastes my time.3 -
Jayman1000✭✭✭✭✭
✭There honestly needs to be something that punishes or prevents people from doing this.
I don't queue up for dps to spam shields and kite the boss while the fake tank does subpar dps and wastes my time.
The problem is the "how". There is yet to be defined a proper working method to effectively punish the culprits. They way eso is designed with it's flexible roles im as far convinced that no punitive measures can solve this in any satisfactory way.
The only real solution I see at this point is to offer more choices for queuing up, so that like minded individuals can be matched together. Until that happens this fake tank business will continue unresolved.0 -
rfennell_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MooseKnuckles88 wrote: »I pug up about +90% of the time when I run dungeons and out of that I would say I'm experiencing 1 out 3 that include fake tanks queued in. Some even admit to being a fake tank at the start or mid run. I usually don't care until the entire group starts to expect me to lead the charge the whole way. I only have 16.5k health, but I can only take a beating so much and at that point it gets annoying. How often do you experience the fake tanks in your queues?
it's about half the time from my experience... and that's normal mode.
It's a lot less in veteran, I usually see prepared tanks (maybe not experienced, but they are geared for tanking)1 -
Azuramoonstar✭✭✭✭Jayman1000 wrote: »There honestly needs to be something that punishes or prevents people from doing this.
I don't queue up for dps to spam shields and kite the boss while the fake tank does subpar dps and wastes my time.
The problem is the "how". There is yet to be defined a proper working method to effectively punish the culprits. They way eso is designed with it's flexible roles im as far convinced that no punitive measures can solve this in any satisfactory way.
The only real solution I see at this point is to offer more choices for queuing up, so that like minded individuals can be matched together. Until that happens this fake tank business will continue unresolved.
ff14 has a duty finder and party finder setting/tabs. Duty finder is like group finder when you solo queue group dungeons. While party finder lets you set up a party advertisement for specific content and party make up.
this is still an issue in ff14.
Only solutions are: 1) make your own group. 2) vote kick people who don't do their roles.
I played over 30 mmo from 2004 till now and the fake tank concept only started after WoW added the lfg option and ff14 with its df system.
the second you let something automate the searching for you, you are susceptible to getting matched with players who may not agree with you. Adding too much flagging and filters just bogs down the automation as it checks every flag to see if it got clicked or not. (aka it slows it down).
If you have/require certain standards of play make your own groups. If you rather use group finder and run into player issues. Leave or vote kick.
I've seen every mmo try to fix this issue and nothing works. Until a game forces players to hit certain buttons this problem will exist.Long time mmo player: 2004-[current year]
Long time Elder scrolls player: Xbox launch morrowind.
Follower of the dawn and dusk, keeper of the moon and star.0 -
Azuramoonstar✭✭✭✭There honestly needs to be something that punishes or prevents people from doing this.
I don't queue up for dps to spam shields and kite the boss while the fake tank does subpar dps and wastes my time.
why? too many punishments end up punishing the legit players and not the bad ones. And all punishments can be abused.Long time mmo player: 2004-[current year]
Long time Elder scrolls player: Xbox launch morrowind.
Follower of the dawn and dusk, keeper of the moon and star.0 -
PaddyVu✭✭✭✭fgulerneb18_ESO1 wrote: »Do not keep them in party. As healer even in normal dungeon im kicking them out. If voted NO 2 times im leaving from party. Dont give them chance to do this.
Even in vet dungeons i got fake tanks they are ........... ........... ........... .............. ............... ............. .............
I'm fake tank every single vet dungeon (i'm very very good at solo dungeon),but actually when i fake tank,i will ask them first,tank or dps,if they not saying i will go dps,if they said tank i will tank,it only take 1s to switch from dps to tank and vice versa thank to dressing room0 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The worst are the noob whiners who run spindleclutch, fungal grotto and other easy dungeons, then complain when they don't realize it's easier and faster to just burn through it with 3~4 dps. The whole dungeon finder setup is stupid. Some of us are capped and just running a random daily to level up a new toon. Why should we be forced to sit in que for 10 mins to infinity? OMG THE TANK ISNT TAUNTING IM TAKING SOME DAMAGE OMG OMG I CANT STAND IN PLACE OR ROLL AROUND LIKE AN IDIOT TAKING 10 MINUTES TO KILL A MOB
I’m sorry, just did just say random daily. So you could quite easily get dlc. Your typing in caps to try and excuse your toxic behaviour.
Your attitude is part of the problem. You may be capped but if your pugging and choosing randoms, you can’t guarantee the other players are capped, that they don’t want an actual tank (your making the choice for them) and you can’t guarantee that you don’t screw over the whole group by getting dlc.
But so long as you don’t have to wait 10 mins that’s ok isn’t it?
To you my attitude may seem part of the problem, but to me you are part of the problem. How exactly is the group "screwed over" by having someone who is actually capped with full CP, doing massive damage and finishing the dungeon faster? Blame z0$ and stop blaming those of us who have put more time and effort into the game. We all get screwed by z0$ because they are too lazy and or incompetent to redesign and add more options to the group-finder. You shouldn't have to group with a tank who doesn't taunt if you don't desire it. Likewise others shouldn't have to listen to noobs complain like idiots or be kicked from dungeons due to noob ignorance. Stop spamming light attacks and maybe you won't taunt the boss so much.
I should wait for a lengthy period of time or perhaps not get a group at all, just for a normal random daily? Most of them barely take 10 or 15 minutes to complete. Its ludicrous that anyone need wait the same length or longer for a dungeon we already ran dozens if not hundreds of times. Not like the loot is even worth anything below 160cp. I find most noobs in this game incredibly dimwitted. Play your roll and stop whining like little girls. If you're running vet, or a more difficult dlc dungeon, then sure, a fake tank should drop out. Whining about most of the dungeons is downright petty. Try MapleStory or Mincraft instead.
Slot a taunt. It is not hard. And is barely even a 5% dps loss. You will lose much more damage from boss running around after a silly dd that drags it across the map. There are 10000 dds exactly like you that are in queue. Want to queue as tank? slot a taunt. You are not entitled to skip queue because you are max CP. You are not entitled to skip queue because you are farming the dungeon. You are welcome to queue as tank for normal, but slot a taunt.
If it is too "complicated" for you, you are welcome toTry MapleStory or Mincraft instead.1
This discussion has been closed.