Fake tanks

Azuramoonstar

i'm not gonna have this issue, as I plan to tank in ESO. I did pretty well in ff14, and i always had tanky characters in my TES games.

starkerealm

jabrone77 wrote: »

StamWhipCultist wrote: »

jabrone77 wrote: »

Ran vet Darkshade 2 for daily. See the tank is 752 cp and has s&b on. Think "Alright, this is going to work."
First pack of mobs...running wild. Aggro all over the map. Burn them down and think "eh, first pull..no big deal."
Get to first boss..the one who rotates spraying fire. Tank only focus is the boss...mobs running wild. After first boss is down, type in chat..."Tank, you need a taunt or this isn't going to work."....no reply.
Next pack of mobs...yep...Running wild. Healer goes down..tank goes down...tank says in chat..."poor healing, thanks alot"...I reply "Healer was dead from aggro...your job to keep it.."...no reply from tank.
Next boss, the 3 Dino looking things you need to kill at the same time. Explained this before fight. Tank response is "I KNOW!" OK...
You guessed it....running wild. All separate. Tank running in a circle around one, and only one, boss.
Think of how horrible the Netch boss is going to be with this tank.
Type in chat "It's too early for this, I'm out"

If you're going to tank a vet dungeon, it's very simple. Be a tank, take aggro and do the job you signed up for.
Complaining about fake healers or DD isn't for this topic, start your own thread. Anyone here defending fake tanking is a fake tank trying to defend $h!t behavior. You want a DD as a tank, stop queuing for a pug and start your own group...do any role you want. If you're using group finder, be who you say you are. Stop being sh!ty.

About bosses - u can aggro them and that is fine. But if you really think someone may keep aggro on 15 mobs you pretty much never played a tank.

Not hard to use chains. Was a dk after all. Inner fire is available to all...so is silver leash, or whatever it's called.
Bigger issue is that his focus was on one thing at a time. Made no attempt to pull anything off anyone else, especially the healer, who he blamed for his death.
Yes, mobs will roam. Tanks job is to round them up as best as possible. This didn't happen here. Wasn't even attempted.

And yes, I have tanked. Needed undaunted on my sorc this day, however. This is exactly why I made a tank. To better understand the role. I also have a healer.

Translation, @StamWhipCultist is correct, you've "pretty much never played a tank," with a side of, you've never tanked Darkshade 2. Tanking DS2 is very different from most dungeons in the game. Even a credible, competent, tank can go in there and get wrecked because they didn't understand how the mechanics would actually play out.

starkerealm

StamWhipCultist wrote: »

Fake tanks are no news at all.
But when you get fake DD x2 in a vRoM, you know something has hit the fan

Day before yesterday, I got a CP1k+ "DPS" in queue, hard casting frags, and spamming their Twilight Matriarch. I have no words.

Sailor_Palutena

My concern with such situations makes me do all normal I dungeons first, then try the normal II. I haven't done any Veteran yet and I won't do until I have experienced their normal II versions. I track them all on a paper.

Take also in consideration i'm a templar cp215 with a full epic set of Seducer + Magnus + Willpower with correct attribute and cp distribution. Plus maxed skills where they should be. (Thanks to many guides out there).

What I noticed: I am all the time overhealing with no worry about mana (it renews faster than I can spend). My issue is just a case of confidence. My first Vet I want to be perfect or the sense of failure will pursue me for life.

ONTOPIC: I have seen a few fake tanks in my runs. Picture my despair when the boss comes TO ME! No point in surviving indefnitely when nobody else can taunt or dmg it.

LeagueTroll

jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »

The best is when the tank is a pvp guy that will spam one aility all the time, doing zero damage and taunting none. Then, at the first wipe, he will try to kick some DD, complaining in case it does not pass.

Just let them die and leave.

Toxic cancer.

Those are funny. They are not even close to good in pvp.

jabrone77 wrote: »

Ran vet Darkshade 2 for daily. See the tank is 752 cp and has s&b on. Think "Alright, this is going to work."
First pack of mobs...running wild. Aggro all over the map. Burn them down and think "eh, first pull..no big deal."
Get to first boss..the one who rotates spraying fire. Tank only focus is the boss...mobs running wild. After first boss is down, type in chat..."Tank, you need a taunt or this isn't going to work."....no reply.
Next pack of mobs...yep...Running wild. Healer goes down..tank goes down...tank says in chat..."poor healing, thanks alot"...I reply "Healer was dead from aggro...your job to keep it.."...no reply from tank.
Next boss, the 3 Dino looking things you need to kill at the same time. Explained this before fight. Tank response is "I KNOW!" OK...
You guessed it....running wild. All separate. Tank running in a circle around one, and only one, boss.
Think of how horrible the Netch boss is going to be with this tank.
Type in chat "It's too early for this, I'm out" Re-queue after my deserter timer, get a real tank, finish the dungeon with zero deaths and zero aggro issues. Much eaiser.

If you're going to tank a vet dungeon, it's very simple. Be a tank, take aggro and do the job you signed up for.
Complaining about fake healers or DD isn't for this topic, start your own thread. Anyone here defending fake tanking is a fake tank trying to defend $h!t behavior. You want a DD as a tank, stop queuing for a pug and start your own group...do any role you want. If you're using group finder, be who you say you are. Stop being sh!ty.

I intentionally do this time to time, in 2-2 vote kick did no go situation. It’s works to some ppl. All i need is one fake dd to realize i have 0 intention to suck up with their trash tier dps.

LeagueTroll

starkerealm wrote: »

StamWhipCultist wrote: »

Fake tanks are no news at all.
But when you get fake DD x2 in a vRoM, you know something has hit the fan

Day before yesterday, I got a CP1k+ "DPS" in queue, hard casting frags, and spamming their Twilight Matriarch. I have no words.

What a gem.

Jameliel

Jinchuu wrote: »

^If you're so awesome and everyone else is just a bunch of whiny noobs then why not just solo the dungeon since you're obviously the best player ever?

You lack reading comprehension, and or are a noob. "Random daily normal dungeon". Let me know how to run those solo and get the daily xp bonus oh enlightened genius. No one said they are the best, but your own mind created that image. There are certainly tons of ignorant whiney noobs.

Glurin

Jameliel wrote: »

Jinchuu wrote: »

^If you're so awesome and everyone else is just a bunch of whiny noobs then why not just solo the dungeon since you're obviously the best player ever?

You lack reading comprehension, and or are a noob. "Random daily normal dungeon". Let me know how to run those solo and get the daily xp bonus oh enlightened genius. No one said they are the best, but your own mind created that image. There are certainly tons of ignorant whiney noobs.

Queues as a fake tank for a RANDOM NORMAL dungeon PUG, then complains when he's grouped with people who aren't super awesome meta DPS elitists and could really use a tank to help them out.

ATomiX96

starkerealm wrote: »

StamWhipCultist wrote: »

Fake tanks are no news at all.
But when you get fake DD x2 in a vRoM, you know something has hit the fan

Day before yesterday, I got a CP1k+ "DPS" in queue, hard casting frags, and spamming their Twilight Matriarch. I have no words.

probably bought that account, alot of veterans drop off the game rn and sell their accounts so I wouldnt be surprised it was one of those cases.

starkerealm

ATomiX96 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

StamWhipCultist wrote: »

Fake tanks are no news at all.
But when you get fake DD x2 in a vRoM, you know something has hit the fan

Day before yesterday, I got a CP1k+ "DPS" in queue, hard casting frags, and spamming their Twilight Matriarch. I have no words.

probably bought that account, alot of veterans drop off the game rn and sell their accounts so I wouldnt be surprised it was one of those cases.

Sadly, an old friend of mine did that a couple months ago. Still, I'd hate to throw the accusation around solely because of stupid.

DaveMoeDee

Lasinagol wrote: »

I see less fake tanks then I do fake dps...it isn't hard to tank in light or medium armor on Normal...if you know what you are doing. The one role que limit hasn't helped...made it more difficult to recognise is all.

As a tank that only does vet dungeons, fake DPS are a serious problem.

DaveMoeDee

StamWhipCultist wrote: »

jabrone77 wrote: »

Ran vet Darkshade 2 for daily. See the tank is 752 cp and has s&b on. Think "Alright, this is going to work."
First pack of mobs...running wild. Aggro all over the map. Burn them down and think "eh, first pull..no big deal."
Get to first boss..the one who rotates spraying fire. Tank only focus is the boss...mobs running wild. After first boss is down, type in chat..."Tank, you need a taunt or this isn't going to work."....no reply.
Next pack of mobs...yep...Running wild. Healer goes down..tank goes down...tank says in chat..."poor healing, thanks alot"...I reply "Healer was dead from aggro...your job to keep it.."...no reply from tank.
Next boss, the 3 Dino looking things you need to kill at the same time. Explained this before fight. Tank response is "I KNOW!" OK...
You guessed it....running wild. All separate. Tank running in a circle around one, and only one, boss.
Think of how horrible the Netch boss is going to be with this tank.
Type in chat "It's too early for this, I'm out"

If you're going to tank a vet dungeon, it's very simple. Be a tank, take aggro and do the job you signed up for.
Complaining about fake healers or DD isn't for this topic, start your own thread. Anyone here defending fake tanking is a fake tank trying to defend $h!t behavior. You want a DD as a tank, stop queuing for a pug and start your own group...do any role you want. If you're using group finder, be who you say you are. Stop being sh!ty.

About bosses - u can aggro them and that is fine. But if you really think someone may keep aggro on 15 mobs you pretty much never played a tank.

Tanks can at least try to stack mobs and root them. I may not be able to control all mobs, but I'll chain and talons like crazy. If I see other party members running from mobs, I'll tell them to run mobs by me so I can root them.

Keeping boss aggro and surviving is so easy in base game dungeons. Tanks should be looking at the entire party and trying to see how they can help the other party members survive. If you aren't doing that, you aren't a very good tank. A tank that can't do anything other than hold aggro on bosses with 752 cp is pretty bad at tanking.

Jeremy

VaranisArano wrote: »

Probably about 50% of the time I queue for a normal dungeon on my healer.

Its annoying, because I have several tank characters and if I wanted to deal with boss aggro I would have queued up on one of them.

Seriously, all I ask is that you slot a taunt and hold boss aggro.

Fake tanks make playing as a healer miserable. There is no doubt about that. I even retired my healer awhile back because it had turned into such an issue. I told myself what is even the point of playing a healer if I"m just going to end up tanking everything anyway. I might as well just play my character who is actually designed to tank if that's going to be the case.

Luckily I haven't ran into near as many fake tanks lately as I used to now that I've started playing my healer again. But that might be simply because I stick to mostly veteran dungeons. The problem sounds like it's still in full swing on normal content.

Jeremy

Jameliel wrote: »

The worst are the noob whiners who run spindleclutch, fungal grotto and other easy dungeons, then complain when they don't realize it's easier and faster to just burn through it with 3~4 dps. The whole dungeon finder setup is stupid. Some of us are capped and just running a random daily to level up a new toon. Why should we be forced to sit in que for 10 mins to infinity? OMG THE TANK ISNT TAUNTING IM TAKING SOME DAMAGE OMG OMG I CANT STAND IN PLACE OR ROLL AROUND LIKE AN IDIOT TAKING 10 MINUTES TO KILL A MOB

No one is forcing you to sit in a queue.

If you want to run a dungeon with 4 DPS you can always form your own group and go do it that way. But just because someone is in a hurry and doesn't want to wait in line (like the rest of the DPS are) that doesn't mean it's justified for them to lie about the role they are going to fill in a dungeon group.

Jeremy

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Lasinagol wrote: »

I see less fake tanks then I do fake dps...it isn't hard to tank in light or medium armor on Normal...if you know what you are doing. The one role que limit hasn't helped...made it more difficult to recognise is all.

As a tank that only does vet dungeons, fake DPS are a serious problem.

They can be. I did come across a healer who was pretending to be a DPS the other day in a vet WGT (not sure why a healer would masquerade as a DPS considering they have longer wait times... but he/she did for some reason).

But fake DPS are less of a problem because they are way easier to replace. Not many people are willing to wait around for a tank replacement which often results in a complete waste of time.

jaschacasadiob16_ESO

I am amazed by the fact that the Lead Designer (was it the Designer, yes?) introduced himself like last week, and after more tha na year in the game he (none in ZOS apparently) still did not come up with the idea of adding the option, i nthe gorup finder, to have an all DD run. A simple checkbox that groups 4 people that do not care about roles.

Jeremy

jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »

I am amazed by the fact that the Lead Designer (was it the Designer, yes?) introduced himself like last week, and after more tha na year in the game he (none in ZOS apparently) still did not come up with the idea of adding the option, i nthe gorup finder, to have an all DD run. A simple checkbox that groups 4 people that do not care about roles.

Sounds reasonable to me.

Radiance

IDK if you mean people who Q as the wrong Role or people who are New to Tanking...

But

For me, I started the game off healing all the way up to Max CP and really only just started branching off and focusing on DPS and Tanking. Sometimes people see your level and expect you to know exactly what you're doing at all times but some are more or less experienced with certain roles and classes.

If you're doing normals you should have some patience because those are there for new players to learn the mechanics.
If you're doing vet then you should expect someone who knows what they're doing but again, don't complain if you're Q-ing in randomly. Even normal players have a first go at Vet and can't be expected to perform better than they are capable without first getting better gear and monster helms from Vet dungeons.

Everyone has to start somewhere and I think whiney posts like this scare people off tanking and away altogether.
Life-long Vets need to learn to stop bullying and either only play with people you know who will move at your speed or be willing to teach new players or at the very least tolerate them and wait for them to improve, unless you want the game to die.

Don't be so anti-social this is an MMO.

Frawr

jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »

I am amazed by the fact that the Lead Designer (was it the Designer, yes?) introduced himself like last week, and after more tha na year in the game he (none in ZOS apparently) still did not come up with the idea of adding the option, i nthe gorup finder, to have an all DD run. A simple checkbox that groups 4 people that do not care about roles.

If you ever watch them play, it's nothing like how experienced players play. It's like watching one of those adverts where they make it 'look' epic. They use heavy attacks etc all the time.

It's no wonder that they haven't thought of this because its so far out of their reality. 4 DPS in a group dungeon? that'll never work...

See if you can find the footage of the time that they went into live PVP. It was a sight to behold.

Jeremy

Frawr wrote: »

jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »

I am amazed by the fact that the Lead Designer (was it the Designer, yes?) introduced himself like last week, and after more tha na year in the game he (none in ZOS apparently) still did not come up with the idea of adding the option, i nthe gorup finder, to have an all DD run. A simple checkbox that groups 4 people that do not care about roles.

If you ever watch them play, it's nothing like how experienced players play. It's like watching one of those adverts where they make it 'look' epic. They use heavy attacks etc all the time.

It's no wonder that they haven't thought of this because its so far out of their reality. 4 DPS in a group dungeon? that'll never work...

See if you can find the footage of the time that they went into live PVP. It was a sight to behold.

That's been my experience as well. Fake tanks are usually god awful players who just make the run more difficult. They certainly aren't elite damage-dealing tanks we should just all be grateful to for gracing us with their presence because they make the dungeon so much faster and easier.

That being said though: I don't see the harm in giving players an option to join a queue that doesn't recognize roles. Some players enjoy running around like headless chickens while things chase them. I don't know why - but they do.

Azuramoonstar

Jeremy wrote: »

Frawr wrote: »

jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »

I am amazed by the fact that the Lead Designer (was it the Designer, yes?) introduced himself like last week, and after more tha na year in the game he (none in ZOS apparently) still did not come up with the idea of adding the option, i nthe gorup finder, to have an all DD run. A simple checkbox that groups 4 people that do not care about roles.

If you ever watch them play, it's nothing like how experienced players play. It's like watching one of those adverts where they make it 'look' epic. They use heavy attacks etc all the time.

It's no wonder that they haven't thought of this because its so far out of their reality. 4 DPS in a group dungeon? that'll never work...

See if you can find the footage of the time that they went into live PVP. It was a sight to behold.

That's been my experience as well. Fake tanks are usually god awful players who just make the run more difficult. They certainly aren't elite damage-dealing tanks we should just all be grateful to for gracing us with their presence because they make the dungeon so much faster and easier.

That being said though: I don't see the harm in giving players an option to join a queue that doesn't recognize roles. Some players enjoy running around like headless chickens while things chase them. I don't know why - but they do.

do preform parties for that stuff, random que shouldn't be about doing w/e. Back in my day pugs were not bad, since WoW all ppl think are pug are bad. Which seems to let people think they can do w/e. People are less inclined to kick ppl for not playing their role.

Jeremy

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Frawr wrote: »

jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »

I am amazed by the fact that the Lead Designer (was it the Designer, yes?) introduced himself like last week, and after more tha na year in the game he (none in ZOS apparently) still did not come up with the idea of adding the option, i nthe gorup finder, to have an all DD run. A simple checkbox that groups 4 people that do not care about roles.

If you ever watch them play, it's nothing like how experienced players play. It's like watching one of those adverts where they make it 'look' epic. They use heavy attacks etc all the time.

It's no wonder that they haven't thought of this because its so far out of their reality. 4 DPS in a group dungeon? that'll never work...

See if you can find the footage of the time that they went into live PVP. It was a sight to behold.

That's been my experience as well. Fake tanks are usually god awful players who just make the run more difficult. They certainly aren't elite damage-dealing tanks we should just all be grateful to for gracing us with their presence because they make the dungeon so much faster and easier.

That being said though: I don't see the harm in giving players an option to join a queue that doesn't recognize roles. Some players enjoy running around like headless chickens while things chase them. I don't know why - but they do.

do preform parties for that stuff, random que shouldn't be about doing w/e. Back in my day pugs were not bad, since WoW all ppl think are pug are bad. Which seems to let people think they can do w/e. People are less inclined to kick ppl for not playing their role.

I would agree that self-made parties are the ideal way to go. But still, if adding such a feature would reduce the amount of fake tanks in the queue pools for the rest of us it's hard for me to think of a good reason not to add it. So it may would help the situation.

LiquidSchwartz

Tanks and healers aren’t needed for most dungeons, healer only needed for three dungeons at most
Fastest way to do it with no death is one tank 3 dps for most things but as I said tanks aren’t even needed for anything that is less difficult than ICP

jaschacasadiob16_ESO

LiquidSchwartz wrote: »

Tanks and healers aren’t needed for most dungeons, healer only needed for three dungeons at most Fastest way to do it with no death is one tank 3 dps for most things but as I said tanks aren’t even needed for anything that is less difficult than ICP

I still have to see vMoS no death with 1 tank and 3 DDs.
Given that here we are discussing fake tanks, I'd say 1 fake tank and 3 DDs.

jaschacasadiob16_ESO

One funny thing happened to me in the past. I was playing my real tank and accidentally queued up as DD. Got grouped and realized there was another tank i nthe group. I apologized and told them I was leaving. The tank then told me was no big deal since he was DD.

stitchesofdooom

MooseKnuckles88 wrote: »

I pug up about +90% of the time when I run dungeons and out of that I would say I'm experiencing 1 out 3 that include fake tanks queued in. Some even admit to being a fake tank at the start or mid run. I usually don't care until the entire group starts to expect me to lead the charge the whole way. I only have 16.5k health, but I can only take a beating so much and at that point it gets annoying. How often do you experience the fake tanks in your queues?

it's fake healers that bug me. I had a real eletist steam who expected me, a stamblade, to heal myself.

We should have the option to report fake role queuers on kick. There should be a consequesnce.

Azuramoonstar

Jeremy wrote: »

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Frawr wrote: »

jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »

I am amazed by the fact that the Lead Designer (was it the Designer, yes?) introduced himself like last week, and after more tha na year in the game he (none in ZOS apparently) still did not come up with the idea of adding the option, i nthe gorup finder, to have an all DD run. A simple checkbox that groups 4 people that do not care about roles.

If you ever watch them play, it's nothing like how experienced players play. It's like watching one of those adverts where they make it 'look' epic. They use heavy attacks etc all the time.

It's no wonder that they haven't thought of this because its so far out of their reality. 4 DPS in a group dungeon? that'll never work...

See if you can find the footage of the time that they went into live PVP. It was a sight to behold.

That's been my experience as well. Fake tanks are usually god awful players who just make the run more difficult. They certainly aren't elite damage-dealing tanks we should just all be grateful to for gracing us with their presence because they make the dungeon so much faster and easier.

That being said though: I don't see the harm in giving players an option to join a queue that doesn't recognize roles. Some players enjoy running around like headless chickens while things chase them. I don't know why - but they do.

do preform parties for that stuff, random que shouldn't be about doing w/e. Back in my day pugs were not bad, since WoW all ppl think are pug are bad. Which seems to let people think they can do w/e. People are less inclined to kick ppl for not playing their role.

I would agree that self-made parties are the ideal way to go. But still, if adding such a feature would reduce the amount of fake tanks in the queue pools for the rest of us it's hard for me to think of a good reason not to add it. So it may would help the situation.

again ff14 has classes/jobs with set roles and still have the same issue. All you can do is kick players out. If people are not doing their role kick. No matter what Zos does, no one can force people to play well. Only way to do it is if the community banded together and kick ppl out who don't do their roles.

Azuramoonstar

LiquidSchwartz wrote: »

Tanks and healers aren’t needed for most dungeons, healer only needed for three dungeons at most
Fastest way to do it with no death is one tank 3 dps for most things but as I said tanks aren’t even needed for anything that is less difficult than ICP

not a good thing to spread tbh. Not everyone in the game is max CP, and some people DO want to learn their roles. Only real way to learn a role is to do group play. Only group play in mmo is dungeons. With the "you don't need it" attitude, it impacts the community and the "fake" mindset starts.

Community has some control over how it runs.

my first MMO ff11 had a good community, it never put up with bs attitudes or game play. Back wen mmo didn't do group finder queuing, and you had to make your own pt. So if you was bad word was spread.

Jeremy

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Frawr wrote: »

jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »

I am amazed by the fact that the Lead Designer (was it the Designer, yes?) introduced himself like last week, and after more tha na year in the game he (none in ZOS apparently) still did not come up with the idea of adding the option, i nthe gorup finder, to have an all DD run. A simple checkbox that groups 4 people that do not care about roles.

If you ever watch them play, it's nothing like how experienced players play. It's like watching one of those adverts where they make it 'look' epic. They use heavy attacks etc all the time.

It's no wonder that they haven't thought of this because its so far out of their reality. 4 DPS in a group dungeon? that'll never work...

See if you can find the footage of the time that they went into live PVP. It was a sight to behold.

That's been my experience as well. Fake tanks are usually god awful players who just make the run more difficult. They certainly aren't elite damage-dealing tanks we should just all be grateful to for gracing us with their presence because they make the dungeon so much faster and easier.

That being said though: I don't see the harm in giving players an option to join a queue that doesn't recognize roles. Some players enjoy running around like headless chickens while things chase them. I don't know why - but they do.

do preform parties for that stuff, random que shouldn't be about doing w/e. Back in my day pugs were not bad, since WoW all ppl think are pug are bad. Which seems to let people think they can do w/e. People are less inclined to kick ppl for not playing their role.

I would agree that self-made parties are the ideal way to go. But still, if adding such a feature would reduce the amount of fake tanks in the queue pools for the rest of us it's hard for me to think of a good reason not to add it. So it may would help the situation.

again ff14 has classes/jobs with set roles and still have the same issue. All you can do is kick players out. If people are not doing their role kick. No matter what Zos does, no one can force people to play well. Only way to do it is if the community banded together and kick ppl out who don't do their roles.

I played Final Fantasy 14 for several years and don't ever remember this being a problem on that game. There was always a tank in my runs who would proceed to pull the entire or at least half the dungeon (which got old I can tell you). But its been awhile since I played that game. So maybe it's a problem now.

In any case: you're not understanding my point I don't think. I"m not suggesting fake tanks shouldn't be kicked (they should). But there is a significant amount of players with this mindset that it's ok for them queue up as tanks or healers with their DPS characters for dungeons they don't feel "need" tanks and healers. So allowing these players an option to queue up for an alternate set up that doesn't recognize specific roles might be a win win.

They get their DPS-loaded groups and the rest of us get our traditional groups. There would be no excuses for them to lie about their roles then. So I don't really see a downside.

TheInfernalRage

Silver_Strider wrote: »

I'm done with Fake Tanks. If I see a Tank with dual wield/bow and less than 18k health, I just immediately vote kick cause it's not worth the aggravation anymore.

I don't care that you are new to the game, that is all the more reason to NOT queue up for a vet dungeon that you've never done, even on normal mode, and have 0 understanding of what that role symbol by your name means. Call me an elitist jerk all you want, I'm not the one that is going to encourage your selfish behavior and anyone that defends that type of ignorance is NOT doing them any favors.

That's not elitism really. That's just plain common sense. When as a tank you tell me taunting is not part of your playstyle, that's it you're gone. I may be very understanding when it comes to normal non-DLC dungeons, but there's a limit to that when my freaking AOE's are wasted.