So...if the Altmer are an ancient culture who strive for perfection...

psychotrip · August 2018

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

TheUndeadAmulet wrote: »

It makes sense because, you know, they are in a war rn. I don't perfect tailoring is on their priority list, more actually being able to equip every soldier properly.

But I thought the Altmer put their best into everything? It seems the "lesser races" have no problem making decent clothes. So whats the Altmers' excuse?

The Altmer are primitive beasts masquerading as superior beings. It's all just been propaganda and transcription errors! Open your eyes and see the truth!

The Redguards have firearms and cannons. They have stone/sand mages and healers. The Redguards make the best ships. The Nedes knew enough to connect/control the constellations. Then there was of course Shalidor. The only reason humans are 'inferior' is thanks to some *** named Trinimac aka Malacath aka Old Orkey who robbed humanity of long life. Elves are just abusive slavers, that's what makes them 'superior'. Oh yeah, and Redguard armor has style, just look at that. =D I'm fond of the other few Redguard styles as well. Admittedly some of the new Altmer styles with the bird wings aren't too bad.

And here its laid bare. This is why I think Zenimax dropped the ball on the Altmer. So many other races and cultures are allowed to be magical and creative and advanced in their own way, but the most intelligent race on Tamriel has to be "grounded".

At the end of the day, Altmer seem to fade into the background while others surpass them with less effort.

Kuramas9tails · August 2018

Are some of you guys seriously comparing a low material style to a more higher quality style?

There's a reason no one runs around in a Jute style outfit from the base race motifs.

psychotrip · August 2018

Kuramas9tails wrote: »

Are some of you guys seriously comparing a low material style to a more higher quality style?

There's a reason no one runs around in a Jute style outfit from the base race motifs.

Even if you compare the lowest quality styles from different races, only one has gigantic clumsy stitches all over it and only one is made by a race that's supposed to be obsessed with perfection and live in the most ancient society in the known world

Grayfax · August 2018

If you want to see some top notch equipment, start a new Altmer and plan to go Heavy Armor and run through the new Summerset starting area. Pick up EVERYTHING. You can get all pieces but the legs in some super-shiny Level 1-2 gear that screams "Altmer Perfection". It's not going to last, and it is not crafted, but there is definitely some "that looks cool" in these low level items that you "find in your dreamstate because you already had them on your person".

crjs1 · August 2018

I am a bit Altmer obsessed, only race i have played since Morrowind and Oblivion back in the day... so I do think ESO could have done a better job and not retro conned so much lore.

BUT I can’t agree that in ESO they are boring or not unique. Taking base game low level gear aside, Summerset is beautiful and the architecture is on another level of complexity compared to other races or locations. Yes I would of loved somthing a bit more alien with greater use of glass and some more variety etc and was very skeptical before release, actually playing in a summerset has made me love it. It is in no way boring, the organic motifs on the buildings, Windows , even the greenhouses and shrines show an advanced and hugely skilled culture. The use of vertical space is excellent - Alinor is just stunning. It fits in perfectly with the Altmer’s focus on tradition and striving for perfection - it’s so refined! I personally think it is miles ahead of what we got in Morrowind last year - Vivec city is just ugly.

Also things like the College of Sapiarchs, the politics and hierarchical social structure is great and unique. Not to mention the Psijic Order which obviously while open to other races has its roots and vast majority of members from the Altmer.

I just can’t see how the Altmer can be described as not unique. Thier portrayal is certainly not perfect in game but it is clear they are the magical ancient civilisation they claim to be.

psychotrip · August 2018

crjs1 wrote: »

I am a bit Altmer obsessed, only race i have played since Morrowind and Oblivion back in the day... so I do think ESO could have done a better job and not retro conned so much lore.

BUT I can’t agree that in ESO they are boring or not unique. Taking base game low level gear aside, Summerset is beautiful and the architecture is on another level of complexity compared to other races or locations. Yes I would of loved somthing a bit more alien with greater use of glass and some more variety etc and was very skeptical before release, actually playing in a summerset has made me love it. It is in no way boring, the organic motifs on the buildings, Windows , even the greenhouses and shrines show an advanced and hugely skilled culture. The use of vertical space is excellent - Alinor is just stunning. It fits in perfectly with the Altmer’s focus on tradition and striving for perfection - it’s so refined! I personally think it is miles ahead of what we got in Morrowind last year - Vivec city is just ugly.

Also things like the College of Sapiarchs, the politics and hierarchical social structure is great and unique. Not to mention the Psijic Order which obviously while open to other races has its roots and vast majority of members from the Altmer.

I just can’t see how the Altmer can be described as not unique. Thier portrayal is certainly not perfect in game but it is clear they are the magical ancient civilisation they claim to be.

Well to answer your last point first: because it's literally just medieval europe. I mean, it's specifically based on Somerset, England, with its medieval cathedrals mixed with greco-roman stuff. The Altmer aesthetic, whether you like it or not, isn't unique in any way. It's pretty much bog standard fantasy stuff, and even Zenimax admits it by calling it "familiar".

Their social structure is pretty basic as well. It's not totally boring but nothing beyond the scope of regular fantasy either. It's exactly what I'd expect from a typical high elf archetype.

Vivec may be ugly to you (which is a subjective point I can't argue with) but it's objectively more advanced. These are town-sized buildings we're talking about. For people to even survive in there, you'd need a state of the art ventilation system.

You'll also notice all the water fountains inside the cantons. That water comes from the canals, gets cleaned in the underworks, then is pumped upward to the top of these town-sized buildings before pouring back down as clean drinking water from the fountains.

The Mournhold sewers use a modern-ish piping system to clean and circulate water through the city. Honestly when you just take a step back you begin to notice how unremarkable a lot of Summerset is. Sure, big cathedrals are pretty awesome in a vacuum, but compared to modern irrigation and engineering it's really not that impressive.

crjs1 · August 2018

Vivec city and cities on Sunnerset are different and advanced in different ways. I don’t see it as a case of one being more advanced than the other. Though in my opinion Alinor - asthetically - and design wise is ahead of Vivec. They have developed in different directions with different focus.

To build complex gothic styles cities utilising vertical space is really advanced engineering. Particularly when compared to cities across Tamriel. There is nothing to indicate the Altmer couldn’t build irrigation and water systems like the Dumner, indeed the Summerset cities show that they are more than capable of complex building and design. The Altmer appear to have no need for irrigation like Vivec city. (Vivec city does also have a resident god!) Just because it’s not there doesn’t mean they don’t have the capability to build it if they wanted to.

WhiteCoatSyndrome · August 2018

Violynne wrote: »

Except for this:

Because daaaaaaaaUUUUUUUUUUUUmmm that light armor is rocking it.

Currently on my Altmer

Sadly the chest is horribly deformed on female characters.

But I do blame the devs for that rather than the Altmer.

zaria · August 2018

TheShadowScout wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

So...if the Altmer are an ancient culture who strive for perfection...

...why are they not all that perfect?
Well, there is an easy answer to that...

You also explain why they are named High elves

Just don't get so high you wake up on the international space station, yes it would be fun but also a bit hard to talk yourself out of.

Jhalin · August 2018

psychotrip wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

TheUndeadAmulet wrote: »

It makes sense because, you know, they are in a war rn. I don't perfect tailoring is on their priority list, more actually being able to equip every soldier properly.

But I thought the Altmer put their best into everything? It seems the "lesser races" have no problem making decent clothes. So whats the Altmers' excuse?

The Altmer are primitive beasts masquerading as superior beings. It's all just been propaganda and transcription errors! Open your eyes and see the truth!

The Redguards have firearms and cannons. They have stone/sand mages and healers. The Redguards make the best ships. The Nedes knew enough to connect/control the constellations. Then there was of course Shalidor. The only reason humans are 'inferior' is thanks to some *** named Trinimac aka Malacath aka Old Orkey who robbed humanity of long life. Elves are just abusive slavers, that's what makes them 'superior'. Oh yeah, and Redguard armor has style, just look at that. =D I'm fond of the other few Redguard styles as well. Admittedly some of the new Altmer styles with the bird wings aren't too bad.

And here its laid bare. This is why I think Zenimax dropped the ball on the Altmer. So many other races and cultures are allowed to be magical and creative and advanced in your own way, but the most intelligent race on Tamriel has to be "grounded".

At the end of the day, Altmer seem to fade into the background while others surpass them with less effort.

tbh nothing about Altmer has ever implied they’re the most intelligent race. They certainly believe themselves to be (with all the haughty ill-founded narcissism to go along with it), but no game has ever given any evidence to that being a reality.

VaranisArano · August 2018

Jhalin wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

TheUndeadAmulet wrote: »

It makes sense because, you know, they are in a war rn. I don't perfect tailoring is on their priority list, more actually being able to equip every soldier properly.

But I thought the Altmer put their best into everything? It seems the "lesser races" have no problem making decent clothes. So whats the Altmers' excuse?

The Altmer are primitive beasts masquerading as superior beings. It's all just been propaganda and transcription errors! Open your eyes and see the truth!

The Redguards have firearms and cannons. They have stone/sand mages and healers. The Redguards make the best ships. The Nedes knew enough to connect/control the constellations. Then there was of course Shalidor. The only reason humans are 'inferior' is thanks to some *** named Trinimac aka Malacath aka Old Orkey who robbed humanity of long life. Elves are just abusive slavers, that's what makes them 'superior'. Oh yeah, and Redguard armor has style, just look at that. =D I'm fond of the other few Redguard styles as well. Admittedly some of the new Altmer styles with the bird wings aren't too bad.

And here its laid bare. This is why I think Zenimax dropped the ball on the Altmer. So many other races and cultures are allowed to be magical and creative and advanced in your own way, but the most intelligent race on Tamriel has to be "grounded".

At the end of the day, Altmer seem to fade into the background while others surpass them with less effort.

tbh nothing about Altmer has ever implied they’re the most intelligent race. They certainly believe themselves to be (with all the haughty ill-founded narcissism to go along with it), but no game has ever given any evidence to that being a reality.

Well, technically...

In Morrowind and Oblivion, the Altmer did get racial bonuses to Intelligence. Mostly because Intelligence was the stat that determined magical aptitude, but hey, its something.

(So did the Bretons and female Argonians, and somewhat awkwardly, Dremora NPCs have a better starting Intelligence stat than anyone else.)

So YMMV on whatever that proves, if anything. I just thought it was interesting.

psychotrip · August 2018

Jhalin wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

TheUndeadAmulet wrote: »

It makes sense because, you know, they are in a war rn. I don't perfect tailoring is on their priority list, more actually being able to equip every soldier properly.

But I thought the Altmer put their best into everything? It seems the "lesser races" have no problem making decent clothes. So whats the Altmers' excuse?

The Altmer are primitive beasts masquerading as superior beings. It's all just been propaganda and transcription errors! Open your eyes and see the truth!

The Redguards have firearms and cannons. They have stone/sand mages and healers. The Redguards make the best ships. The Nedes knew enough to connect/control the constellations. Then there was of course Shalidor. The only reason humans are 'inferior' is thanks to some *** named Trinimac aka Malacath aka Old Orkey who robbed humanity of long life. Elves are just abusive slavers, that's what makes them 'superior'. Oh yeah, and Redguard armor has style, just look at that. =D I'm fond of the other few Redguard styles as well. Admittedly some of the new Altmer styles with the bird wings aren't too bad.

And here its laid bare. This is why I think Zenimax dropped the ball on the Altmer. So many other races and cultures are allowed to be magical and creative and advanced in your own way, but the most intelligent race on Tamriel has to be "grounded".

At the end of the day, Altmer seem to fade into the background while others surpass them with less effort.

tbh nothing about Altmer has ever implied they’re the most intelligent race. They certainly believe themselves to be (with all the haughty ill-founded narcissism to go along with it), but no game has ever given any evidence to that being a reality.

Dude, what are you talking about?

Their intelligence and magical aptitude is...literally...their one thing. In every game they have the highest intelligence stat, and the highest bonuses to magic skills. That’s their whole point from a mechanical standpoint, and (formerly) a major part of them from a lore standpoint.

If we’ve really forgotten that, then Summerset really did diminish the Altmer.

EvilCroc · August 2018

You just do not understand. These stitches are perfectly ugly.

Asardes · August 2018

They outsourced the clothing production to some sweat shops in Akavir

Faulgor · August 2018

Psychotrip still fighting the good fight, I see.

It's a real shame what happened to the Altmer, after ZOS did a splendid job with the Orsimer and improving Oblivion's Imperials in the Gold Coast. Not sure if I should be looking forward to Murkmire, but we'll see.

psychotrip · January 2019

Faulgor wrote: »

Psychotrip still fighting the good fight, I see.

It's a real shame what happened to the Altmer, after ZOS did a splendid job with the Orsimer and improving Oblivion's Imperials in the Gold Coast. Not sure if I should be looking forward to Murkmire, but we'll see.

After all this time, I've realized there's no point fighting. I'm aware I'm mostly just screaming into the void.

And yes, I'm necroing this thread yet again to encourage ZOS to fix the Altmer clothing. No one can tell me this fits their culture or theme in any way.

Jacarranda · October 2019

as an altmer player this bothers me too. all other base race motifs are much better looking. its odd

psychotrip · October 2019

Jacarranda wrote: »

as an altmer player this bothers me too. all other base race motifs are much better looking. its odd

Watch Zenimax close this thread for being "outdated" even though the exact problem still exists to this day. It still baffles me too. What was their rationale for this?

I swear sometimes I just think Zenimax hates the Altmer, or at the very least they just dont know what to do with them or how to fit them into their more "grounded" interpretation of tamriel. The infamous "cant build buildings out of poetry" comment, these awful stitches, the whole "magic isnt important to tamriel" excuse. Its like they'll take any opportunity to make the Altmer less interesting and I dont get why.

TelvanniWizard · October 2019

@psychotrip you are so right! Remember all the discussion when Alinor architecture was released? God, it's like they just don't want to make an effort with the altmer.

Benzux · October 2019

Jesus, I remember reading this thread back when it wasn't necroe'd.

Pretty much all of the base game racial styles are pretty crap, I've come to accept that already. Of course, I would like it if ZoS came back to the older styles and perhaps updated them (at least the highest level variants) to fit much better with the newer styles we have gotten over the years. However, it doesn't seem like that is anything they're going to be doing any time soon, what with the performance updates and such they're doing.

Though I do like that we have gotten "updated" versions in the forms of new, different motifs that fit the various races and look better than their standard counterparts (Alliance styles, Mazzatun/Elder Argonian, the Dunmer house styles, Anequina/Pellitine etc.).

VaranisArano · October 2019

psychotrip wrote: »

Jacarranda wrote: »

as an altmer player this bothers me too. all other base race motifs are much better looking. its odd

Watch Zenimax close this thread for being "outdated" even though the exact problem still exists to this day. It still baffles me too. What was their rationale for this?

I swear sometimes I just think Zenimax hates the Altmer, or at the very least they

I mean, it was the victim of thread necromancy from January, and before that, from August 2018.

One thing that's not outdated is ZOS' reluctance to revisit old assets. They are notoriously reluctant to change graphics after release after several fiascos with people saying "but we liked the old versions better!"

So, um, nothing's changed since this thread started, except that Summerset has gotten even older and there's zero incentive for ZOS to spend time, effort, and money making it better.

If you want to keep tilting at windmills, you do you.

Araneae6537 · October 2019

Summerset is beautiful and I do like the architecture of Alinor, but I do agree that I would have liked to see the magic and perfection taken further, more like Lothlorien even, but perhaps this was in part limited to what the game engine/server can support? More glass and translucent elements could be beautiful but costly to render I’d imagine.

As for how the Altmer are portrayed, I definitely see some of the points brought up in this thread and do feel that both they and the Nord are made cartoony in some ways. The Altmer should have their perfection and magical brilliance, but still one may question at what cost, especially on isolated Summerset you might expect many to be caught up in perfecting things beyond which any value is added, at least to the eyes of any outsider.

Overall, I do still find Summerset one of the most beautiful zones and do enjoy many of the characters and stories I have come across there.

Kagukan · October 2019

We can wrap road kill around us and make it perfect.

TheShadowScout · October 2019

ErinM31 wrote: »

Summerset is beautiful and...

...comes with a couple new altmer-ish crafting styles (Sapiarch and Psijic) that may make many a altmer player more happy then the basic racial looks. Just sayin.

Shawn_PT · October 2019

Just because the Altmer strive for perfection, doesn't mean they actually succeed at reaching it

Araneae6537 · October 2019

I do love Summerset but I also see the point of those who had hoped the land of the Altmer would feel even more different and magical. And I don’t know if the dev statements about realism, etc. we’re taken out of context, but that explanation does seem rather preposterous given all else that exists in game, how widespread magic is, and all the crazy glowing mounts and other creatures I see everywhere!

psychotrip · October 2019

ErinM31 wrote: »

TheShadowScout wrote: »

ErinM31 wrote: »

Summerset is beautiful and...

...comes with a couple new altmer-ish crafting styles (Sapiarch and Psijic) that may make many a altmer player more happy then the basic racial looks. Just sayin.

Is it just me or does it seem that many threads you must argue for or against and not find valid points in different directions? Not to pick on you, @TheShadowScout and I do appreciate positivity and pointing out the good things, especially if I were a player who did not know about these styles.

I love Summerset but I also see the point of those who had hoped the land of the Altmer would feel even more different and magical. And I don’t know if the dev statements about realism, etc. we’re taken out of context, but that explanation does seem rather preposterous given all else that exists in game, how widespread magic is, and all the crazy glowing mounts and other creatures I see everywhere!

Here's the statement in context. Note that when this statement was made we had just gotten back from an extradimensional steampunk city (clockwork city):

"I think Elder Scrolls is, at its heart – and Todd Howard says this all the time – if magic left Tamriel, no one would notice, because it's very mundane at its heart." - Matt Firor

VaranisArano wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

Jacarranda wrote: »

as an altmer player this bothers me too. all other base race motifs are much better looking. its odd

Watch Zenimax close this thread for being "outdated" even though the exact problem still exists to this day. It still baffles me too. What was their rationale for this?

I swear sometimes I just think Zenimax hates the Altmer, or at the very least they

I mean, it was the victim of thread necromancy from January, and before that, from August 2018.

One thing that's not outdated is ZOS' reluctance to revisit old assets. They are notoriously reluctant to change graphics after release after several fiascos with people saying "but we liked the old versions better!"

So, um, nothing's changed since this thread started, except that Summerset has gotten even older and there's zero incentive for ZOS to spend time, effort, and money making it better.

If you want to keep tilting at windmills, you do you.

You'd be surprised how often these old threads of mine get necroed. As long as people keep posting, and I keep getting email notifications, I'll keep popping my head back in a couple times a year to reply. My overarching points have gotten no less relevent or valid.

TheShadowScout · October 2019

ErinM31 wrote: »

Is it just me or does it seem that many threads you must argue for or against and not find valid points in different directions?

I like to review all points that come to my mind. Because I consider it wrong to deny information just because I personally might not care for it... its one of my pet peeves, that "If I do not like it l, you shall not know it" kind of mindset that is the core of every censorship or information control notion.

And thus occasionally end up looking at things from more then one direction. And yes, sometimes that means I consider even points that stand against some argument I myself would and do argue for.

But I think every point I try to make is valid in some way, otherwise I would not make them. Yes, even the "just kidding" ones - life is depressing enough as it is, so every smile or chuckle counts!

psychotrip · October 2019

TheShadowScout wrote: »

ErinM31 wrote: »

Is it just me or does it seem that many threads you must argue for or against and not find valid points in different directions?

I like to review all points that come to my mind. Because I consider it wrong to deny information just because I personally might not care for it... its one of my pet peeves, that "If I do not like it l, you shall not know it" kind of mindset that is the core of every censorship or information control notion.

And thus occasionally end up looking at things from more then one direction. And yes, sometimes that means I consider even points that stand against some argument I myself would and do argue for.

But I think every point I try to make is valid in some way, otherwise I would not make them. Yes, even the "just kidding" ones - life is depressing enough as it is, so every smile or chuckle counts!

Considering I dont play the game anymore, I forgot about these new outfits. Could you post some images? I assume they're free and not in the crown store right?

The point still remains though that the "default" clothing for Altmer is atrocious, even compared to the other races. I still haven't seen any possible explanation for why they added those ugly stitches.

Araneae6537 · October 2019

TheShadowScout wrote: »

ErinM31 wrote: »

Is it just me or does it seem that many threads you must argue for or against and not find valid points in different directions?

I like to review all points that come to my mind. Because I consider it wrong to deny information just because I personally might not care for it... its one of my pet peeves, that "If I do not like it l, you shall not know it" kind of mindset that is the core of every censorship or information control notion.

And thus occasionally end up looking at things from more then one direction. And yes, sometimes that means I consider even points that stand against some argument I myself would and do argue for.

But I think every point I try to make is valid in some way, otherwise I would not make them. Yes, even the "just kidding" ones - life is depressing enough as it is, so every smile or chuckle counts!

I think that is always the best route to take in any discussion!

Sorry, looking back I see my post was far more about another thread than this one (and have edited my post). I certainly agree that much better Altmer styles were introduced with Summerset, in architecture as well as clothing.