So...if the Altmer are an ancient culture who strive for perfection...

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  • HiLyfe808
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    would be nice if they updated and redid the original racial styles. Some of them are dated and could use a little sprucing up.
  • MLGProPlayer
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    As an aside, you know who had the absolute best-looking starter gear? Bretons. Seriously - look at this outfit I threw together in a couple minutes using only starter Breton gear. Does this not look like a proper battle mage to you? Bretons really got lucky with their armor design, gotta say...

    40145524_10155472881946035_8052731253826256896_o.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=f62918888b5d5b1914da3daeb405644e&oe=5C04D305

    I still use level 1 light Breton shoes for my outfit (rest is all DLC motifs). No other shoe motif even comes close to looking that fresh. All the other styles look like sabatons or clown shoes (or they don't dye properly).
    Edited by MLGProPlayer on August 27, 2018 11:35PM
  • JJBoomer
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    I too think it's a disgrace that the altmer perfection has been hindered in this game. Patchy, ugly clothing? Crumbling capital cities? Pure shame. Give the Altmer back their proper standing!
  • Iccotak
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    psychotrip wrote: »

    But I thought the Altmer put their best into everything? It seems the "lesser races" have no problem making decent clothes. So whats the Altmers' excuse?

    6r0a3q.png

    The Altmer are primitive beasts masquerading as superior beings. It's all just been propaganda and transcription errors! Open your eyes and see the truth!

    This was an update they made to redguard & orcs gear after feedback, the changes need to made for the rest of the races.
    Nord armor looks awful
  • max_only
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    Iccotak wrote: »

    This was an update they made to redguard & orcs gear after feedback, the changes need to made for the rest of the races.
    Nord armor looks awful

    I just don’t get why Nord armor has short sleeves with armpit hair, I mean fur, peeking out.
    #FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
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  • Mettaricana
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    Thats the difference between altmer and crownstore altmer...
  • Iccotak
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    max_only wrote: »

    I just don’t get why Nord armor has short sleeves with armpit hair, I mean fur, peeking out.

    I just mean look at the heavy armor. the textures and exaggerated horns look bad, also the boots are the worst of the vanilla armor sets
  • TheShadowScout
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    psychotrip wrote: »
    So...if the Altmer are an ancient culture who strive for perfection...
    ...why are they not all that perfect?
    Well, there is an easy answer to that...
    ieLtFSi.gif
    :p;):D
  • Darkhorse1975
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    Perhaps since "High" Elves live so long, maybe the "perfection" in their clothing style is trying to keep each article of clothing still wearable for as long as possible? Thus the ugly stitching. If this were the case, under garments would be utterly ghastly! Transmuting to Reinforced trait and applying an armor glyph would be advisable.
    Edited by Darkhorse1975 on August 28, 2018 5:40AM
    Master Craftsman!
  • Kelces
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    Some may ask "what the ... is he talking about? But I think, it relates to the myth about Atlantis that has been adapted to the Altmer race in this story.

    There is a lore book found in Summerset, that speaks about the so-called "blessed isles" which reminds me of an Irish legend that based this term on the survivors of that lost empire travelling to Ireland/UK (blessed isles) from a lost continent in the west. According to that, I imagine the lack of good looking armor might symbolize the lost technology, knowledge and status, described about the Altmer as was told about the Antlanteans. The Thalmor might therefore represent the last decendants of the old hierarchy, who in their arrogance despise every other culture.

    I don't know much about lore, but I always found such similarities fascinating.
    You reveal yourself best in how you play.

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  • psychotrip
    psychotrip
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    Perhaps since "High" Elves live so long, maybe the "perfection" in their clothing style is trying to keep each article of clothing still wearable for as long as possible? Thus the ugly stitching. If this were the case, under garments would be utterly ghastly! Transmuting to Reinforced trait and applying an armor glyph would be advisable.

    Except high elves don’t live any longer than other elves. Yet another way Zenimax decided to normalize them.
    Kelces wrote: »
    Some may ask "what the ... is he talking about? But I think, it relates to the myth about Atlantis that has been adapted to the Altmer race in this story.

    There is a lore book found in Summerset, that speaks about the so-called "blessed isles" which reminds me of an Irish legend that based this term on the survivors of that lost empire travelling to Ireland/UK (blessed isles) from a lost continent in the west. According to that, I imagine the lack of good looking armor might symbolize the lost technology, knowledge and status, described about the Altmer as was told about the Antlanteans. The Thalmor might therefore represent the last decendants of the old hierarchy, who in their arrogance despise every other culture.

    I don't know much about lore, but I always found such similarities fascinating.

    Good theory, but if true then it’s yet another example of Zenimax diminishing any shred of uniqueness or advancement from the Altmer in favor of making them more “mundane”. Meanwhile, many of the other races feel lightyears ahead of them.

    The Altmer are the most pathetic race in the elder scrolls. I honestly can’t think of anything they have made or done that others haven’t done better.

    I think they’re also by far the most generic race in the game. Even bretons feel like they have a stronger flavor and identity than these people. There’s nothing to distiguish altmer from any other “high elf” in any other series outside the name
    Edited by psychotrip on August 28, 2018 1:14PM
    No one is saying there aren't multiple interpretations of the lore, and we're not arguing that ESO did it "wrong".

    We're arguing that they decided to go for the most boring, mundane, seen-before interpretation possible. Like they almost always do, unless they can ride on the coat-tails of past games.
  • VaranisArano
    VaranisArano
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    psychotrip wrote: »
    Good theory, but if true then it’s yet another example of Zenimax diminishing any shred of uniqueness or advancement from the Altmer in favor of making them more “mundane”. Meanwhile, many of the other races feel lightyears ahead of them.

    The Altmer are the most pathetic race in the elder scrolls. I honestly can’t think of anything they have made or done that others haven’t done better.

    I think they’re also by far the most generic race in the game. Even bretons feel like they have a stronger flavor and identity than these people. There’s nothing to distiguish altmer from any other “high elf” in any other series outside the name

    Really? The Altmer feel quite distinct to me, within the bounds of only seeing them in 1 zone and a Chapter compared to, say, the Dunmer (TES III Morrowind, Tribunal DLC, Dragonborn DLC, 2 zones, and a Chapter).

    Yeah, they're the "magically-gifted" race of elves. Okay, that's pretty generic.

    They're also rabidly isolationist, obsessed with their own purity and genealogy, racial supremacists who made a pretty good go of it as of Skyrim, who use magic more in their daily everyday lives than we've seen any other race, absolutely hidebound with tradition and ceremony, and who are grudgingly working with other races for a war most of them don't want for a Queen a fair amount don't care for.

    Now, true enough, its not the unique and fantastic culture we expected from the lore prior to the retcons, but these aren't your Tolkien elves.

    Mind you, I also think the Bretons are basically fantasy-medieval French merchant half-elves in this game, so I wasn't as impressed.
  • zaria
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    ...why are they not all that perfect?
    Well, there is an easy answer to that...
    ieLtFSi.gif
    :p;):D
    Where is that from, curious Khajiit want to know.
    Grinding just make you go in circles.
    Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.
  • psychotrip
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    Really? The Altmer feel quite distinct to me, within the bounds of only seeing them in 1 zone and a Chapter compared to, say, the Dunmer (TES III Morrowind, Tribunal DLC, Dragonborn DLC, 2 zones, and a Chapter).

    Yeah, they're the "magically-gifted" race of elves. Okay, that's pretty generic.

    They're also rabidly isolationist, obsessed with their own purity and genealogy, racial supremacists who made a pretty good go of it as of Skyrim, who use magic more in their daily everyday lives than we've seen any other race, absolutely hidebound with tradition and ceremony, and who are grudgingly working with other races for a war most of them don't want for a Queen a fair amount don't care for.

    Now, true enough, its not the unique and fantastic culture we expected from the lore prior to the retcons, but these aren't your Tolkien elves.

    Mind you, I also think the Bretons are basically fantasy-medieval French merchant half-elves in this game, so I wasn't as impressed.

    Yeah...Pretty much every high elf race in most modern fantasy IPs are the way you just described. You kind of just described my entire point. Except the Altmer feel far less magical and competent compared to other races than high elves in other works of fiction. That's the only real difference I can think of.

    The Elder Scrolls has dark elves with modern-ish engineering and irrigation capabilities (Vivec, Old Mournhold), cities they can grow out of magic, cloning, and a living god with a magitech city full of robots. Nedes and Nords had colossal ruins with mechanized components, requiring an understanding of engineering far beyond their "real world" counterparts. I could go on with this.

    And yet the Altmer have to be grounded and mundane according to Zenimax / Bethesda. Unless it's an aldmer hand-me-down, it's probably less impressive than anything we've seen on the rest of Tamriel.

    And when criticized for it we're told, point blank, that despite everything we've seen before this point, that the world is "mundane", the people need to be grounded, and that if magic stopped existing most people wouldn't notice.

    They don't use realism as a tool for relatability, or a means of immersion or consistent storytelling. They don't use the unreliable narrator to inject mystery and ambiguity into the world. They use these tropes as crutches, to absolve them of any criticism or complaint. After watching this tactic used again and again for years, it's just getting silly at this point.

    Edit: Wait also, can you list any examples of them using magic in their everyday lives more than any other race? I haven't played through all of Summerset so I might have missed some stuff. The Altmer, on the whole, felt pretty un-magical to me, especially on Auridon.
    Edited by psychotrip on August 28, 2018 2:08PM
    No one is saying there aren't multiple interpretations of the lore, and we're not arguing that ESO did it "wrong".

    We're arguing that they decided to go for the most boring, mundane, seen-before interpretation possible. Like they almost always do, unless they can ride on the coat-tails of past games.
  • TheShadowScout
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    zaria wrote: »
    Where is that from, curious Khajiit want to know.
    "World of Wolfram", a german comedy miniseries... (on Youtube, available with optional english subtitles for those who want to watch for a laugh: https://www.youtube.com/c/worldofwolfram )
  • DanteYoda
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    Even the criminal organizations have better gear :wink:
  • zaria
    zaria
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    "World of Wolfram", a german comedy miniseries... (on Youtube, available with optional english subtitles for those who want to watch for a laugh: https://www.youtube.com/c/worldofwolfram )
    Thank you,
    Grinding just make you go in circles.
    Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.
  • VaranisArano
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    psychotrip wrote: »

    Yeah...Pretty much every high elf race in most modern fantasy IPs are the way you just described. You kind of just described my entire point. Except the Altmer feel far less magical and competent compared to other races than high elves in other works of fiction. That's the only real difference I can think of.

    The Elder Scrolls has dark elves with modern-ish engineering and irrigation capabilities (Vivec, Old Mournhold), cities they can grow out of magic, cloning, and a living god with a magitech city full of robots. Nedes and Nords had colossal ruins with mechanized components, requiring an understanding of engineering far beyond their "real world" counterparts. I could go on with this.

    And yet the Altmer have to be grounded and mundane according to Zenimax / Bethesda. Unless it's an aldmer hand-me-down, it's probably less impressive than anything we've seen on the rest of Tamriel.

    And when criticized for it we're told, point blank, that despite everything we've seen before this point, that the world is "mundane", the people need to be grounded, and that if magic stopped existing most people wouldn't notice.

    They don't use realism as a tool for relatability, or a means of immersion or consistent storytelling. They don't use the unreliable narrator to inject mystery and ambiguity into the world. They use these tropes as crutches, to absolve them of any criticism or complaint. After watching this tactic used again and again for years, it's just getting silly at this point.

    Edit: Wait also, can you list any examples of them using magic in their everyday lives more than any other race? I haven't played through all of Summerset so I might have missed some stuff. The Altmer, on the whole, felt pretty un-magical to me, especially on Auridon.

    So, Auridon is pretty darned unmagical. Thanks ZOS.

    But on Summerset, theres a merchant using a flame atronach as a pack mule, there's the criminal justice investigation that uses magic to figure out who did it, there's craftable levitating furniture, there's the House of Revelries quest where magic
    Spoiler
    can be used to change one's gender.

    There's probably a few more I'm overlooking here since those are just what comes to mind first. Now, obviously I'd love it if ZOS had chosen to do more, MORE examples and I think they should have. But ZOS seems to have decided that subtle is better.
  • psychotrip
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    So, Auridon is pretty darned unmagical. Thanks ZOS.

    But on Summerset, theres a merchant using a flame atronach as a pack mule, there's the criminal justice investigation that uses magic to figure out who did it, there's craftable levitating furniture, there's the House of Revelries quest where magic
    Spoiler
    can be used to change one's gender.

    There's probably a few more I'm overlooking here since those are just what comes to mind first. Now, obviously I'd love it if ZOS had chosen to do more, MORE examples and I think they should have. But ZOS seems to have decided that subtle is better.

    Yup. That stuff is awesome. Of course I wish there was more, or that it was more consistent, or that Summerset felt as "advanced" as some other parts of Tamriel, but I do appreciate the things you listed.

    I would note that Zenimax is contradicting itself with that flame atronach. On Auridon, an entire questline revolves around how summoning daedra (they even explicitly mention atronachs) is a death sentence for the Altmer.

    a02S9uy.png
    EHYIZQ0.png

    So yeah I guess that's another retcon. Still, I hated that questline so I guess it's a good retcon. Still, it just makes me feel like Zenimax doesn't know what they want to do with the Altmer.
    Edited by psychotrip on August 28, 2018 4:05PM
    No one is saying there aren't multiple interpretations of the lore, and we're not arguing that ESO did it "wrong".

    We're arguing that they decided to go for the most boring, mundane, seen-before interpretation possible. Like they almost always do, unless they can ride on the coat-tails of past games.
  • Kelces
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    psychotrip wrote: »

    Except high elves don’t live any longer than other elves. Yet another way Zenimax decided to normalize them.

    Good theory, but if true then it’s yet another example of Zenimax diminishing any shred of uniqueness or advancement from the Altmer in favor of making them more “mundane”. Meanwhile, many of the other races feel lightyears ahead of them.

    The Altmer are the most pathetic race in the elder scrolls. I honestly can’t think of anything they have made or done that others haven’t done better.

    I think they’re also by far the most generic race in the game. Even bretons feel like they have a stronger flavor and identity than these people. There’s nothing to distiguish altmer from any other “high elf” in any other series outside the name

    It is also said, that the Atlanteans had lost their sense for aesthetics and creativity relative to their technological advancement until they blew themselves up, while other people they opposed stood strictly with their psychic practices (magic) and preserved those arts including nice tailoring etc. In a way like the saying "the devil is not a maker..." completely void of imagination.

    But maybe you are right and ZoS just did a bad job... :grin:
    Edited by Kelces on August 28, 2018 5:56PM
    You reveal yourself best in how you play.

    Kelces - Argonian Templar
    Farel Donvu - Dark Elf Sorcerer
    Navam Llervu - Dark Elf Dragonknight
    Aniseth - Wood Elf Warden
    Therediel - Wood Elf Templar
    Nilonwy - Wood Elf Nightblade
    Jurupari - Argonian Warden
    Kú-Chulainn - Argonian Sorcerer
    PC - EU
    For the Pact!
  • MartiniDaniels
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    Maybe altmer armor as well as many other were created by those students who work for ZOS for free?

    I may understand why basic armor is low detailed, but why Ebony style is such a waste, especially in comparison to magnificent Glass style...
  • zaria
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    Maybe altmer armor as well as many other were created by those students who work for ZOS for free?

    I may understand why basic armor is low detailed, but why Ebony style is such a waste, especially in comparison to magnificent Glass style...
    It looks like beta stuff, imagine Altmer was the first created, look at the texture of furniture. So low quality it would look bad in Oblivion.
    Note that low quality texture is far from the same as cheap / primitive items. Argonian, Bosmer and to some degree Orc and Nord items look primitive or cheap because of culture, textures is decent however. Altmer as an culture should have at least as good quality funiture as Redguards, Breton or Khajiit.

    On the other hand quests in the AD zone is better than in EP. This was commented during beta, how EP got worse quests.
    Grinding just make you go in circles.
    Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.
  • psychotrip
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    zaria wrote: »
    It looks like beta stuff, imagine Altmer was the first created, look at the texture of furniture. So low quality it would look bad in Oblivion.
    Note that low quality texture is far from the same as cheap / primitive items. Argonian, Bosmer and to some degree Orc and Nord items look primitive or cheap because of culture, textures is decent however. Altmer as an culture should have at least as good quality funiture as Redguards, Breton or Khajiit.

    On the other hand quests in the AD zone is better than in EP. This was commented during beta, how EP got worse quests.

    I feel like we're losing the plot here. It's not like the clothing is low-res or poorly coded. This is more a matter of intentional art style choices. Someone at some point chose to give the altmer clothing these huge clumsy stitches and the higher ups at Zenimax thought it suited their vision for the Altmer and their culture.

    The question is why.
    Edited by psychotrip on August 29, 2018 1:53AM
    No one is saying there aren't multiple interpretations of the lore, and we're not arguing that ESO did it "wrong".

    We're arguing that they decided to go for the most boring, mundane, seen-before interpretation possible. Like they almost always do, unless they can ride on the coat-tails of past games.
  • Malacthulhu
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    The altmer are high society and probably use a lot of moon sugar so it makes sense.
    Xbox One Na
  • psychotrip
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    The altmer are high society and probably use a lot of moon sugar so it makes sense.

    Doesn't seem to stop the khajiit:

    Khajiit-Fell-Female-46-Superior-Close-Front.png
    No one is saying there aren't multiple interpretations of the lore, and we're not arguing that ESO did it "wrong".

    We're arguing that they decided to go for the most boring, mundane, seen-before interpretation possible. Like they almost always do, unless they can ride on the coat-tails of past games.
  • dodgehopper_ESO
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    psychotrip wrote: »

    But I thought the Altmer put their best into everything? It seems the "lesser races" have no problem making decent clothes. So whats the Altmers' excuse?

    6r0a3q.png

    The Altmer are primitive beasts masquerading as superior beings. It's all just been propaganda and transcription errors! Open your eyes and see the truth!

    The Redguards have firearms and cannons. They have stone/sand mages and healers. The Redguards make the best ships. The Nedes knew enough to connect/control the constellations. Then there was of course Shalidor. The only reason humans are 'inferior' is thanks to some *** named Trinimac aka Malacath aka Old Orkey who robbed humanity of long life. Elves are just abusive slavers, that's what makes them 'superior'. Oh yeah, and Redguard armor has style, just look at that. =D I'm fond of the other few Redguard styles as well. Admittedly some of the new Altmer styles with the bird wings aren't too bad.
    Edited by dodgehopper_ESO on August 30, 2018 1:49PM
    US/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
    US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
    US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
    US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
    US/EP - Yngmar - Vet Nord Dragon Knight | US/EP - Reloth Ur Fyr - Vet Dunmer Sorcerer
    US/DC - Muiredeach - Vet Breton Sorcerer | US/DC - Nachtrabe - Vet Orc Nightblade
    EU/DC - Dragol gro-Unglak - Vet Orc Dragon Knight | EU/DC - Targan al-Barkan - Vet Redguard Templar
    EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
    <And plenty more>
  • mikemacon
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    Because those are perfect giant ugly stitches.

    or something.
  • qbit
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    I was playing and several times encountered a quest giver that was like “you want to challenge me to a duel?” It was an altmer saying it to an orc. And it was pretty funny how he said it. And the end of the quest was fitting. Those altmer are full of it...

    A bit back someone was on here talking crazy like I do sometimes and challenging people to duels when they disagreed with him. Someone called him out for it. I wanted to link to a video of that guy being like “you want to challenge me to a duel?”

    Haha!
  • Violynne
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    psychotrip wrote: »
    ...Why do their clothes have giant, ugly stitches patched onto them?
    I'm never ceased to be amazed at how many thoughts I have are expressed by others.

    These stitches are precisely why I'll never wear Altmer gear.

    Except for this:
    ae4a282f0c8fcc3dd2.jpg?_ga=1.156763251.974453110.1457596235

    Because daaaaaaaaUUUUUUUUUUUUmmm that light armor is rocking it.

    Currently on my Altmer
    :smile:

    Edited by Violynne on August 30, 2018 4:27PM
  • psychotrip
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    Violynne wrote: »
    I'm never ceased to be amazed at how many thoughts I have are expressed by others.

    These stitches are precisely why I'll never wear Altmer gear.

    Except for this:
    ae4a282f0c8fcc3dd2.jpg?_ga=1.156763251.974453110.1457596235

    Because daaaaaaaaUUUUUUUUUUUUmmm that light armor is rocking it.

    Currently on my Altmer
    :smile:

    If only THIS was the Altmer motif, and if Summerset itself had a style consistent with this (or any of the altmer gear from past games). What we got is so lackluster by comparison.
    No one is saying there aren't multiple interpretations of the lore, and we're not arguing that ESO did it "wrong".

    We're arguing that they decided to go for the most boring, mundane, seen-before interpretation possible. Like they almost always do, unless they can ride on the coat-tails of past games.
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