So...if the Altmer are an ancient culture who strive for perfection...

HiLyfe808

would be nice if they updated and redid the original racial styles. Some of them are dated and could use a little sprucing up.

MLGProPlayer

OrdoHermetica wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

All base game armour styles looked like potato sacks. The DLC stuff is much better for every race.

Redguard and Orc come to mind as very elegant racial styles.

Meanwhile a small child’s attempt at clothier work makes up most of the Altmer’s light and medium armor

<snip>

There is less visible stitching, but they still look like potato sacks.

As an aside, you know who had the absolute best-looking starter gear? Bretons. Seriously - look at this outfit I threw together in a couple minutes using only starter Breton gear. Does this not look like a proper battle mage to you? Bretons really got lucky with their armor design, gotta say...

I still use level 1 light Breton shoes for my outfit (rest is all DLC motifs). No other shoe motif even comes close to looking that fresh. All the other styles look like sabatons or clown shoes (or they don't dye properly).

JJBoomer

I too think it's a disgrace that the altmer perfection has been hindered in this game. Patchy, ugly clothing? Crumbling capital cities? Pure shame. Give the Altmer back their proper standing!

Iccotak

psychotrip wrote: »

TheUndeadAmulet wrote: »

It makes sense because, you know, they are in a war rn. I don't perfect tailoring is on their priority list, more actually being able to equip every soldier properly.

But I thought the Altmer put their best into everything? It seems the "lesser races" have no problem making decent clothes. So whats the Altmers' excuse?



The Altmer are primitive beasts masquerading as superior beings. It's all just been propaganda and transcription errors! Open your eyes and see the truth!

This was an update they made to redguard & orcs gear after feedback, the changes need to made for the rest of the races.
Nord armor looks awful

max_only

Iccotak wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

TheUndeadAmulet wrote: »

It makes sense because, you know, they are in a war rn. I don't perfect tailoring is on their priority list, more actually being able to equip every soldier properly.

But I thought the Altmer put their best into everything? It seems the "lesser races" have no problem making decent clothes. So whats the Altmers' excuse?



The Altmer are primitive beasts masquerading as superior beings. It's all just been propaganda and transcription errors! Open your eyes and see the truth!

This was an update they made to redguard & orcs gear after feedback, the changes need to made for the rest of the races.
Nord armor looks awful

I just don’t get why Nord armor has short sleeves with armpit hair, I mean fur, peeking out.

Mettaricana

Thats the difference between altmer and crownstore altmer...

Iccotak

max_only wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

TheUndeadAmulet wrote: »

It makes sense because, you know, they are in a war rn. I don't perfect tailoring is on their priority list, more actually being able to equip every soldier properly.

But I thought the Altmer put their best into everything? It seems the "lesser races" have no problem making decent clothes. So whats the Altmers' excuse?



The Altmer are primitive beasts masquerading as superior beings. It's all just been propaganda and transcription errors! Open your eyes and see the truth!

This was an update they made to redguard & orcs gear after feedback, the changes need to made for the rest of the races.
Nord armor looks awful

I just don’t get why Nord armor has short sleeves with armpit hair, I mean fur, peeking out.

I just mean look at the heavy armor. the textures and exaggerated horns look bad, also the boots are the worst of the vanilla armor sets

TheShadowScout

psychotrip wrote: »

So...if the Altmer are an ancient culture who strive for perfection...

...why are they not all that perfect?
Well, there is an easy answer to that...

Darkhorse1975

Perhaps since "High" Elves live so long, maybe the "perfection" in their clothing style is trying to keep each article of clothing still wearable for as long as possible? Thus the ugly stitching. If this were the case, under garments would be utterly ghastly! Transmuting to Reinforced trait and applying an armor glyph would be advisable.

Kelces

Some may ask "what the ... is he talking about? But I think, it relates to the myth about Atlantis that has been adapted to the Altmer race in this story.

There is a lore book found in Summerset, that speaks about the so-called "blessed isles" which reminds me of an Irish legend that based this term on the survivors of that lost empire travelling to Ireland/UK (blessed isles) from a lost continent in the west. According to that, I imagine the lack of good looking armor might symbolize the lost technology, knowledge and status, described about the Altmer as was told about the Antlanteans. The Thalmor might therefore represent the last decendants of the old hierarchy, who in their arrogance despise every other culture.

I don't know much about lore, but I always found such similarities fascinating.

psychotrip

Darkhorse1975 wrote: »

Perhaps since "High" Elves live so long, maybe the "perfection" in their clothing style is trying to keep each article of clothing still wearable for as long as possible? Thus the ugly stitching. If this were the case, under garments would be utterly ghastly! Transmuting to Reinforced trait and applying an armor glyph would be advisable.

Except high elves don’t live any longer than other elves. Yet another way Zenimax decided to normalize them.

Kelces wrote: »

Some may ask "what the ... is he talking about? But I think, it relates to the myth about Atlantis that has been adapted to the Altmer race in this story.

There is a lore book found in Summerset, that speaks about the so-called "blessed isles" which reminds me of an Irish legend that based this term on the survivors of that lost empire travelling to Ireland/UK (blessed isles) from a lost continent in the west. According to that, I imagine the lack of good looking armor might symbolize the lost technology, knowledge and status, described about the Altmer as was told about the Antlanteans. The Thalmor might therefore represent the last decendants of the old hierarchy, who in their arrogance despise every other culture.

I don't know much about lore, but I always found such similarities fascinating.

Good theory, but if true then it’s yet another example of Zenimax diminishing any shred of uniqueness or advancement from the Altmer in favor of making them more “mundane”. Meanwhile, many of the other races feel lightyears ahead of them.

The Altmer are the most pathetic race in the elder scrolls. I honestly can’t think of anything they have made or done that others haven’t done better.

I think they’re also by far the most generic race in the game. Even bretons feel like they have a stronger flavor and identity than these people. There’s nothing to distiguish altmer from any other “high elf” in any other series outside the name

VaranisArano

psychotrip wrote: »

Good theory, but if true then it’s yet another example of Zenimax diminishing any shred of uniqueness or advancement from the Altmer in favor of making them more “mundane”. Meanwhile, many of the other races feel lightyears ahead of them.

The Altmer are the most pathetic race in the elder scrolls. I honestly can’t think of anything they have made or done that others haven’t done better.

I think they’re also by far the most generic race in the game. Even bretons feel like they have a stronger flavor and identity than these people. There’s nothing to distiguish altmer from any other “high elf” in any other series outside the name

Really? The Altmer feel quite distinct to me, within the bounds of only seeing them in 1 zone and a Chapter compared to, say, the Dunmer (TES III Morrowind, Tribunal DLC, Dragonborn DLC, 2 zones, and a Chapter).

Yeah, they're the "magically-gifted" race of elves. Okay, that's pretty generic.

They're also rabidly isolationist, obsessed with their own purity and genealogy, racial supremacists who made a pretty good go of it as of Skyrim, who use magic more in their daily everyday lives than we've seen any other race, absolutely hidebound with tradition and ceremony, and who are grudgingly working with other races for a war most of them don't want for a Queen a fair amount don't care for.

Now, true enough, its not the unique and fantastic culture we expected from the lore prior to the retcons, but these aren't your Tolkien elves.

Mind you, I also think the Bretons are basically fantasy-medieval French merchant half-elves in this game, so I wasn't as impressed.

zaria

TheShadowScout wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

So...if the Altmer are an ancient culture who strive for perfection...

...why are they not all that perfect?
Well, there is an easy answer to that...

Where is that from, curious Khajiit want to know.

psychotrip

VaranisArano wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

Good theory, but if true then it’s yet another example of Zenimax diminishing any shred of uniqueness or advancement from the Altmer in favor of making them more “mundane”. Meanwhile, many of the other races feel lightyears ahead of them.

The Altmer are the most pathetic race in the elder scrolls. I honestly can’t think of anything they have made or done that others haven’t done better.

I think they’re also by far the most generic race in the game. Even bretons feel like they have a stronger flavor and identity than these people. There’s nothing to distiguish altmer from any other “high elf” in any other series outside the name

Really? The Altmer feel quite distinct to me, within the bounds of only seeing them in 1 zone and a Chapter compared to, say, the Dunmer (TES III Morrowind, Tribunal DLC, Dragonborn DLC, 2 zones, and a Chapter).

Yeah, they're the "magically-gifted" race of elves. Okay, that's pretty generic.

They're also rabidly isolationist, obsessed with their own purity and genealogy, racial supremacists who made a pretty good go of it as of Skyrim, who use magic more in their daily everyday lives than we've seen any other race, absolutely hidebound with tradition and ceremony, and who are grudgingly working with other races for a war most of them don't want for a Queen a fair amount don't care for.

Now, true enough, its not the unique and fantastic culture we expected from the lore prior to the retcons, but these aren't your Tolkien elves.

Mind you, I also think the Bretons are basically fantasy-medieval French merchant half-elves in this game, so I wasn't as impressed.

Yeah...Pretty much every high elf race in most modern fantasy IPs are the way you just described. You kind of just described my entire point. Except the Altmer feel far less magical and competent compared to other races than high elves in other works of fiction. That's the only real difference I can think of.

The Elder Scrolls has dark elves with modern-ish engineering and irrigation capabilities (Vivec, Old Mournhold), cities they can grow out of magic, cloning, and a living god with a magitech city full of robots. Nedes and Nords had colossal ruins with mechanized components, requiring an understanding of engineering far beyond their "real world" counterparts. I could go on with this.

And yet the Altmer have to be grounded and mundane according to Zenimax / Bethesda. Unless it's an aldmer hand-me-down, it's probably less impressive than anything we've seen on the rest of Tamriel.

And when criticized for it we're told, point blank, that despite everything we've seen before this point, that the world is "mundane", the people need to be grounded, and that if magic stopped existing most people wouldn't notice.

They don't use realism as a tool for relatability, or a means of immersion or consistent storytelling. They don't use the unreliable narrator to inject mystery and ambiguity into the world. They use these tropes as crutches, to absolve them of any criticism or complaint. After watching this tactic used again and again for years, it's just getting silly at this point.

Edit: Wait also, can you list any examples of them using magic in their everyday lives more than any other race? I haven't played through all of Summerset so I might have missed some stuff. The Altmer, on the whole, felt pretty un-magical to me, especially on Auridon.

TheShadowScout

zaria wrote: »

TheShadowScout wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

So...if the Altmer are an ancient culture who strive for perfection...

...why are they not all that perfect?
Well, there is an easy answer to that...

Where is that from, curious Khajiit want to know.

"World of Wolfram", a german comedy miniseries... (on Youtube, available with optional english subtitles for those who want to watch for a laugh: https://www.youtube.com/c/worldofwolfram )

DanteYoda

Even the criminal organizations have better gear

zaria

TheShadowScout wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

TheShadowScout wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

So...if the Altmer are an ancient culture who strive for perfection...

...why are they not all that perfect?
Well, there is an easy answer to that...

Where is that from, curious Khajiit want to know.

"World of Wolfram", a german comedy miniseries... (on Youtube, available with optional english subtitles for those who want to watch for a laugh: https://www.youtube.com/c/worldofwolfram )

Thank you,

VaranisArano

psychotrip wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

Good theory, but if true then it’s yet another example of Zenimax diminishing any shred of uniqueness or advancement from the Altmer in favor of making them more “mundane”. Meanwhile, many of the other races feel lightyears ahead of them.

The Altmer are the most pathetic race in the elder scrolls. I honestly can’t think of anything they have made or done that others haven’t done better.

I think they’re also by far the most generic race in the game. Even bretons feel like they have a stronger flavor and identity than these people. There’s nothing to distiguish altmer from any other “high elf” in any other series outside the name

Really? The Altmer feel quite distinct to me, within the bounds of only seeing them in 1 zone and a Chapter compared to, say, the Dunmer (TES III Morrowind, Tribunal DLC, Dragonborn DLC, 2 zones, and a Chapter).

Yeah, they're the "magically-gifted" race of elves. Okay, that's pretty generic.

They're also rabidly isolationist, obsessed with their own purity and genealogy, racial supremacists who made a pretty good go of it as of Skyrim, who use magic more in their daily everyday lives than we've seen any other race, absolutely hidebound with tradition and ceremony, and who are grudgingly working with other races for a war most of them don't want for a Queen a fair amount don't care for.

Now, true enough, its not the unique and fantastic culture we expected from the lore prior to the retcons, but these aren't your Tolkien elves.

Mind you, I also think the Bretons are basically fantasy-medieval French merchant half-elves in this game, so I wasn't as impressed.

Yeah...Pretty much every high elf race in most modern fantasy IPs are the way you just described. You kind of just described my entire point. Except the Altmer feel far less magical and competent compared to other races than high elves in other works of fiction. That's the only real difference I can think of.

The Elder Scrolls has dark elves with modern-ish engineering and irrigation capabilities (Vivec, Old Mournhold), cities they can grow out of magic, cloning, and a living god with a magitech city full of robots. Nedes and Nords had colossal ruins with mechanized components, requiring an understanding of engineering far beyond their "real world" counterparts. I could go on with this.

And yet the Altmer have to be grounded and mundane according to Zenimax / Bethesda. Unless it's an aldmer hand-me-down, it's probably less impressive than anything we've seen on the rest of Tamriel.

And when criticized for it we're told, point blank, that despite everything we've seen before this point, that the world is "mundane", the people need to be grounded, and that if magic stopped existing most people wouldn't notice.

They don't use realism as a tool for relatability, or a means of immersion or consistent storytelling. They don't use the unreliable narrator to inject mystery and ambiguity into the world. They use these tropes as crutches, to absolve them of any criticism or complaint. After watching this tactic used again and again for years, it's just getting silly at this point.

Edit: Wait also, can you list any examples of them using magic in their everyday lives more than any other race? I haven't played through all of Summerset so I might have missed some stuff. The Altmer, on the whole, felt pretty un-magical to me, especially on Auridon.

So, Auridon is pretty darned unmagical. Thanks ZOS.

But on Summerset, theres a merchant using a flame atronach as a pack mule, there's the criminal justice investigation that uses magic to figure out who did it, there's craftable levitating furniture, there's the House of Revelries quest where magic

can be used to change one's gender.

There's probably a few more I'm overlooking here since those are just what comes to mind first. Now, obviously I'd love it if ZOS had chosen to do more, MORE examples and I think they should have. But ZOS seems to have decided that subtle is better.

psychotrip

VaranisArano wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

Good theory, but if true then it’s yet another example of Zenimax diminishing any shred of uniqueness or advancement from the Altmer in favor of making them more “mundane”. Meanwhile, many of the other races feel lightyears ahead of them.

The Altmer are the most pathetic race in the elder scrolls. I honestly can’t think of anything they have made or done that others haven’t done better.

I think they’re also by far the most generic race in the game. Even bretons feel like they have a stronger flavor and identity than these people. There’s nothing to distiguish altmer from any other “high elf” in any other series outside the name

Really? The Altmer feel quite distinct to me, within the bounds of only seeing them in 1 zone and a Chapter compared to, say, the Dunmer (TES III Morrowind, Tribunal DLC, Dragonborn DLC, 2 zones, and a Chapter).

Yeah, they're the "magically-gifted" race of elves. Okay, that's pretty generic.

They're also rabidly isolationist, obsessed with their own purity and genealogy, racial supremacists who made a pretty good go of it as of Skyrim, who use magic more in their daily everyday lives than we've seen any other race, absolutely hidebound with tradition and ceremony, and who are grudgingly working with other races for a war most of them don't want for a Queen a fair amount don't care for.

Now, true enough, its not the unique and fantastic culture we expected from the lore prior to the retcons, but these aren't your Tolkien elves.

Mind you, I also think the Bretons are basically fantasy-medieval French merchant half-elves in this game, so I wasn't as impressed.

Yeah...Pretty much every high elf race in most modern fantasy IPs are the way you just described. You kind of just described my entire point. Except the Altmer feel far less magical and competent compared to other races than high elves in other works of fiction. That's the only real difference I can think of.

The Elder Scrolls has dark elves with modern-ish engineering and irrigation capabilities (Vivec, Old Mournhold), cities they can grow out of magic, cloning, and a living god with a magitech city full of robots. Nedes and Nords had colossal ruins with mechanized components, requiring an understanding of engineering far beyond their "real world" counterparts. I could go on with this.

And yet the Altmer have to be grounded and mundane according to Zenimax / Bethesda. Unless it's an aldmer hand-me-down, it's probably less impressive than anything we've seen on the rest of Tamriel.

And when criticized for it we're told, point blank, that despite everything we've seen before this point, that the world is "mundane", the people need to be grounded, and that if magic stopped existing most people wouldn't notice.

They don't use realism as a tool for relatability, or a means of immersion or consistent storytelling. They don't use the unreliable narrator to inject mystery and ambiguity into the world. They use these tropes as crutches, to absolve them of any criticism or complaint. After watching this tactic used again and again for years, it's just getting silly at this point.

Edit: Wait also, can you list any examples of them using magic in their everyday lives more than any other race? I haven't played through all of Summerset so I might have missed some stuff. The Altmer, on the whole, felt pretty un-magical to me, especially on Auridon.

So, Auridon is pretty darned unmagical. Thanks ZOS.

But on Summerset, theres a merchant using a flame atronach as a pack mule, there's the criminal justice investigation that uses magic to figure out who did it, there's craftable levitating furniture, there's the House of Revelries quest where magic

can be used to change one's gender.

There's probably a few more I'm overlooking here since those are just what comes to mind first. Now, obviously I'd love it if ZOS had chosen to do more, MORE examples and I think they should have. But ZOS seems to have decided that subtle is better.

Yup. That stuff is awesome. Of course I wish there was more, or that it was more consistent, or that Summerset felt as "advanced" as some other parts of Tamriel, but I do appreciate the things you listed.

I would note that Zenimax is contradicting itself with that flame atronach. On Auridon, an entire questline revolves around how summoning daedra (they even explicitly mention atronachs) is a death sentence for the Altmer.




So yeah I guess that's another retcon. Still, I hated that questline so I guess it's a good retcon. Still, it just makes me feel like Zenimax doesn't know what they want to do with the Altmer.

Kelces

psychotrip wrote: »

Darkhorse1975 wrote: »

Perhaps since "High" Elves live so long, maybe the "perfection" in their clothing style is trying to keep each article of clothing still wearable for as long as possible? Thus the ugly stitching. If this were the case, under garments would be utterly ghastly! Transmuting to Reinforced trait and applying an armor glyph would be advisable.

Except high elves don’t live any longer than other elves. Yet another way Zenimax decided to normalize them.

Kelces wrote: »

Some may ask "what the ... is he talking about? But I think, it relates to the myth about Atlantis that has been adapted to the Altmer race in this story.

There is a lore book found in Summerset, that speaks about the so-called "blessed isles" which reminds me of an Irish legend that based this term on the survivors of that lost empire travelling to Ireland/UK (blessed isles) from a lost continent in the west. According to that, I imagine the lack of good looking armor might symbolize the lost technology, knowledge and status, described about the Altmer as was told about the Antlanteans. The Thalmor might therefore represent the last decendants of the old hierarchy, who in their arrogance despise every other culture.

I don't know much about lore, but I always found such similarities fascinating.

Good theory, but if true then it’s yet another example of Zenimax diminishing any shred of uniqueness or advancement from the Altmer in favor of making them more “mundane”. Meanwhile, many of the other races feel lightyears ahead of them.

The Altmer are the most pathetic race in the elder scrolls. I honestly can’t think of anything they have made or done that others haven’t done better.

I think they’re also by far the most generic race in the game. Even bretons feel like they have a stronger flavor and identity than these people. There’s nothing to distiguish altmer from any other “high elf” in any other series outside the name

It is also said, that the Atlanteans had lost their sense for aesthetics and creativity relative to their technological advancement until they blew themselves up, while other people they opposed stood strictly with their psychic practices (magic) and preserved those arts including nice tailoring etc. In a way like the saying "the devil is not a maker..." completely void of imagination.

But maybe you are right and ZoS just did a bad job...

MartiniDaniels

Maybe altmer armor as well as many other were created by those students who work for ZOS for free?

I may understand why basic armor is low detailed, but why Ebony style is such a waste, especially in comparison to magnificent Glass style...

zaria

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Maybe altmer armor as well as many other were created by those students who work for ZOS for free?

I may understand why basic armor is low detailed, but why Ebony style is such a waste, especially in comparison to magnificent Glass style...

It looks like beta stuff, imagine Altmer was the first created, look at the texture of furniture. So low quality it would look bad in Oblivion.
Note that low quality texture is far from the same as cheap / primitive items. Argonian, Bosmer and to some degree Orc and Nord items look primitive or cheap because of culture, textures is decent however. Altmer as an culture should have at least as good quality funiture as Redguards, Breton or Khajiit.

On the other hand quests in the AD zone is better than in EP. This was commented during beta, how EP got worse quests.

psychotrip

zaria wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Maybe altmer armor as well as many other were created by those students who work for ZOS for free?

I may understand why basic armor is low detailed, but why Ebony style is such a waste, especially in comparison to magnificent Glass style...

It looks like beta stuff, imagine Altmer was the first created, look at the texture of furniture. So low quality it would look bad in Oblivion.
Note that low quality texture is far from the same as cheap / primitive items. Argonian, Bosmer and to some degree Orc and Nord items look primitive or cheap because of culture, textures is decent however. Altmer as an culture should have at least as good quality funiture as Redguards, Breton or Khajiit.

On the other hand quests in the AD zone is better than in EP. This was commented during beta, how EP got worse quests.

I feel like we're losing the plot here. It's not like the clothing is low-res or poorly coded. This is more a matter of intentional art style choices. Someone at some point chose to give the altmer clothing these huge clumsy stitches and the higher ups at Zenimax thought it suited their vision for the Altmer and their culture.

The question is why.

Malacthulhu

The altmer are high society and probably use a lot of moon sugar so it makes sense.

psychotrip

Malacthulhu wrote: »

The altmer are high society and probably use a lot of moon sugar so it makes sense.

Doesn't seem to stop the khajiit:

dodgehopper_ESO

psychotrip wrote: »

TheUndeadAmulet wrote: »

It makes sense because, you know, they are in a war rn. I don't perfect tailoring is on their priority list, more actually being able to equip every soldier properly.

But I thought the Altmer put their best into everything? It seems the "lesser races" have no problem making decent clothes. So whats the Altmers' excuse?



The Altmer are primitive beasts masquerading as superior beings. It's all just been propaganda and transcription errors! Open your eyes and see the truth!

The Redguards have firearms and cannons. They have stone/sand mages and healers. The Redguards make the best ships. The Nedes knew enough to connect/control the constellations. Then there was of course Shalidor. The only reason humans are 'inferior' is thanks to some *** named Trinimac aka Malacath aka Old Orkey who robbed humanity of long life. Elves are just abusive slavers, that's what makes them 'superior'. Oh yeah, and Redguard armor has style, just look at that. =D I'm fond of the other few Redguard styles as well. Admittedly some of the new Altmer styles with the bird wings aren't too bad.

mikemacon

Because those are perfect giant ugly stitches.

or something.

qbit

I was playing and several times encountered a quest giver that was like “you want to challenge me to a duel?” It was an altmer saying it to an orc. And it was pretty funny how he said it. And the end of the quest was fitting. Those altmer are full of it...

A bit back someone was on here talking crazy like I do sometimes and challenging people to duels when they disagreed with him. Someone called him out for it. I wanted to link to a video of that guy being like “you want to challenge me to a duel?”

Haha!

Violynne

psychotrip wrote: »

...Why do their clothes have giant, ugly stitches patched onto them?

I'm never ceased to be amazed at how many thoughts I have are expressed by others.

These stitches are precisely why I'll never wear Altmer gear.

Except for this:


Because daaaaaaaaUUUUUUUUUUUUmmm that light armor is rocking it.

Currently on my Altmer

psychotrip

Violynne wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

...Why do their clothes have giant, ugly stitches patched onto them?

I'm never ceased to be amazed at how many thoughts I have are expressed by others.

These stitches are precisely why I'll never wear Altmer gear.

Except for this:


Because daaaaaaaaUUUUUUUUUUUUmmm that light armor is rocking it.

Currently on my Altmer

If only THIS was the Altmer motif, and if Summerset itself had a style consistent with this (or any of the altmer gear from past games). What we got is so lackluster by comparison.