Can we have a morph of Soul Assault that ignores damage shields?

Lord-Otto

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Because there is no snare I just use LoS to break it

Edit: wait, you have cloak, yet complain because you don't use the best counter provided to you? Smh

Sa negates cloak.

Only for two seconds out of four. NBs, again, get a free pass, like Sload's.

Strider__Roshin

Lord-Otto wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Because there is no snare I just use LoS to break it

Edit: wait, you have cloak, yet complain because you don't use the best counter provided to you? Smh

Sa negates cloak.

Only for two seconds out of four. NBs, again, get a free pass, like Sload's.

Damage Shields immediately stop the incoming damage of Soul Assault from touching your health. Don't talk to me about free passes.

Waffennacht

Daus wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Because there is no snare I just use LoS to break it

Edit: wait, you have cloak, yet complain because you don't use the best counter provided to you? Smh

Sa negates cloak.

Only for two seconds out of four. NBs, again, get a free pass, like Sload's.

Damage Shields immediately stop the incoming damage of Soul Assault from touching your health. Don't talk to me about free passes.

At the expense of like 3k per tick

Sun7dance

This ultimate alone isn't the problem.
But you never have only one damage skill on you.
So if you get SA, you must completly concentrate your defence against this skill and that means permablock!
In the Meantime you are just a victim for other players.

This ultimate should cost arround 250!

Strider__Roshin

Waffennacht wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Because there is no snare I just use LoS to break it

Edit: wait, you have cloak, yet complain because you don't use the best counter provided to you? Smh

Sa negates cloak.

Only for two seconds out of four. NBs, again, get a free pass, like Sload's.

Damage Shields immediately stop the incoming damage of Soul Assault from touching your health. Don't talk to me about free passes.

At the expense of like 3k per tick

Yup, and since your magicka regen doesn't completely shut up like when you're healing + blocking it's not even a strain on your resources whereas if you're Stam you're as good as dead if you survive the Ult since you no longer have any stamina left to continue fighting.

Waffennacht

Daus wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Because there is no snare I just use LoS to break it

Edit: wait, you have cloak, yet complain because you don't use the best counter provided to you? Smh

Sa negates cloak.

Only for two seconds out of four. NBs, again, get a free pass, like Sload's.

Damage Shields immediately stop the incoming damage of Soul Assault from touching your health. Don't talk to me about free passes.

At the expense of like 3k per tick

Yup, and since your magicka regen doesn't completely shut up like when you're healing + blocking it's not even a strain on your resources whereas if you're Stam you're as good as dead if you survive the Ult since you no longer have any stamina left to continue fighting.

I do think ZoS made a mistake upping the number of ticks - which is why it's so punishing to block. That would be a good change imo.

Edit: unless using harness, it's definitely a drain on any offensive orientated mag build tho

Strider__Roshin

Waffennacht wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Because there is no snare I just use LoS to break it

Edit: wait, you have cloak, yet complain because you don't use the best counter provided to you? Smh

Sa negates cloak.

Only for two seconds out of four. NBs, again, get a free pass, like Sload's.

Damage Shields immediately stop the incoming damage of Soul Assault from touching your health. Don't talk to me about free passes.

At the expense of like 3k per tick

Yup, and since your magicka regen doesn't completely shut up like when you're healing + blocking it's not even a strain on your resources whereas if you're Stam you're as good as dead if you survive the Ult since you no longer have any stamina left to continue fighting.

I do think ZoS made a mistake upping the number of ticks - which is why it's so punishing to block. That would be a good change imo.

Edit: unless using harness, it's definitely a drain on any offensive orientated mag build tho

I think making making it interruptible would be the best route.

Aedaryl

Daus wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Because there is no snare I just use LoS to break it

Edit: wait, you have cloak, yet complain because you don't use the best counter provided to you? Smh

Sa negates cloak.

Only for two seconds out of four. NBs, again, get a free pass, like Sload's.

Damage Shields immediately stop the incoming damage of Soul Assault from touching your health. Don't talk to me about free passes.

At the expense of like 3k per tick

Yup, and since your magicka regen doesn't completely shut up like when you're healing + blocking it's not even a strain on your resources whereas if you're Stam you're as good as dead if you survive the Ult since you no longer have any stamina left to continue fighting.

I do think ZoS made a mistake upping the number of ticks - which is why it's so punishing to block. That would be a good change imo.

Edit: unless using harness, it's definitely a drain on any offensive orientated mag build tho

I think making making it interruptible would be the best route.

Making it interruptible would kill the ultimate.

Soul assault got nerfed already, and it's no longer a "death sentance", all the thread you make clearly proove you need to l2p.

Vapirko

Try cloaking out of soul assault after 2 seconds. Oh right your code of honor forbids you from using your classes defensive mechanism. Remind me to stop using volatile armor and wings on my Stam DK and then come here to complain that I die too much.

IlCanis_LupuslI

Well I got snipes stacked to 80% health (I was expecting him so I slotted mark+ blocked) and) then soul assaulted and easily survived, put a piercing mark on that sob and hunted him down...
Moral of this: people in Pvp using medium are either gankers, extremely brave or extremely stupid...
@ZOS_GinaBruno I really hope this changes, atm wearing medium is pretty much suicidal..

Feanor

A SA nerf thread after it lost the 70% snare? Sweet Lord. The only ones that use Soul Assault are magNBs that try to Xv1 - and that’s in noCP... I hardly see anyone running it otherwise.

StamWhipCultist

Way too many sorcerers would be triggered by this, so I guess no.

Ankael07

exeeter702 wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

That way one morph is a free kill against stamina and the other is a free kill against magicka?

@Daus what is your vigor tooltip?

Not enough to counter soul assault and stillhave stamina afterwards since you have to block it.

Well theres your problem. Youre expecting to counter a damage oriented ulti with a single HoT skill

Galarthor

Stamina NB, the strongest class in pvp. whining again. This gets so tiresome.

If you can manage to perma dodge you can also afford to block for 2 sec.
That way you can easily survive a soul assault. Seriously, only noobs, people that are already low on HP and/or are attacked by multiple people die to soul assault.

End of story.

Beardimus

Scrubs struggle with Sorcs
Scrubs struggle with Soul assault

..

IlCanis_LupuslI

Vs sorcs infused+oblivion on my offhand comes in handy
Vs soul assault in mortal Form I use cloak in ww Form is just use 1 Hircines rage(block casted to proc the vengeance passive) and I'm usually fine, rarely I have to use it 2x in a row

Gnozo

Can we make soul assault deal oblivion damage and reduce cost to 50?

Also giving 50 ult on the initial cast pls.

I dont have problem with soul assault on every class. Also stamnb. If you dont have cp in block cost reduction then you should do it. And as previously mentioned cloak it after 2 sec

Lexxypwns

Got hit with 4 Soul Assaults at a resource during a 1vX last night, no LoS, just used my defensive ulti and killed 2 of them the the other few after. On a 2h/Snb Stamden... Later in the night I got SA-Meteor-Rune cage and simply popped undo. It’s not an I win, it’s a counter to underprepared players

Try slotting a defensive ultimate and using that to counter soul assault.

Strider__Roshin

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Got hit with 4 Soul Assaults at a resource during a 1vX last night, no LoS, just used my defensive ulti and killed 2 of them the the other few after. On a stamina build...

Try slotting a defensive ultimate and using that to counter soul assault.

Which ult? Yeah if I have it available that would be great, I've survived it in the past by casting undo 2-3 seconds in. That's the luck of the draw though, and I typically play no-CP.

Lexxypwns

Daus wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Got hit with 4 Soul Assaults at a resource during a 1vX last night, no LoS, just used my defensive ulti and killed 2 of them the the other few after. On a stamina build...

Try slotting a defensive ultimate and using that to counter soul assault.

Which ult? Yeah if I have it available that would be great, I've survived it in the past by casting undo 2-3 seconds in. That's the luck of the draw though, and I typically play no-CP.

I used Shield Disciple, but literally every defensive ult works.

Why wouldn’t you just use soul siphon on Stamblade, it’s low key the best heal ult in the game and passively increases your healing for slotting it. Can probably just Surprise Attack weave spam someone to death during their soul assault tbh.

idk

Vapirko wrote: »

Try cloaking out of soul assault after 2 seconds. Oh right your code of honor forbids you from using your classes defensive mechanism. Remind me to stop using volatile armor and wings on my Stam DK and then come here to complain that I die too much.

This deserves a lol.

Strider__Roshin

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Got hit with 4 Soul Assaults at a resource during a 1vX last night, no LoS, just used my defensive ulti and killed 2 of them the the other few after. On a stamina build...

Try slotting a defensive ultimate and using that to counter soul assault.

Which ult? Yeah if I have it available that would be great, I've survived it in the past by casting undo 2-3 seconds in. That's the luck of the draw though, and I typically play no-CP.

I used Shield Disciple, but literally every defensive ult works.

Why wouldn’t you just use soul siphon on Stamblade, it’s low key the best heal ult in the game and passively increases your healing for slotting it. Can probably just Surprise Attack weave spam someone to death during their soul assault tbh.

It all depends on the situation. If I have my spectral bow and/or Incap available I'll definitely try to kill them first. As to why Undo over Siphon; it depends on the situation. I backbar Undo (Temporal Guard) for the passive minor maim. That ult in conjunction with a defending bow, Mirage, and being a Nord helps with my survivability.

If I'm playing with anyone I'll typically slot Siphon, because as you know that heal is just too good.

Kelces

Gnozo wrote: »

Can we make soul assault deal oblivion damage and reduce cost to 50?

Also giving 50 ult on the initial cast pls.

I dont have problem with soul assault on every class. Also stamnb. If you dont have cp in block cost reduction then you should do it. And as previously mentioned cloak it after 2 sec

Same here, I'm really surprised although I can understand the initial response, it's just a matter of experience.

The most funny part about this is, that I don't even have many problems without CP. Even when I play on stamina characters, self healing and block seems to suffice.

exeeter702

Ankael07 wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

That way one morph is a free kill against stamina and the other is a free kill against magicka?

@Daus what is your vigor tooltip?

Not enough to counter soul assault and stillhave stamina afterwards since you have to block it.

Well theres your problem. Youre expecting to counter a damage oriented ulti with a single HoT skill

First of all its not my problem. I was merely responding to someone randomly asking what the OPs vigor tool tip was, insinuating that vigor in any capacity alleviates the damage from soul assault which doesnt matter because if you dont block soul assault, you are dead as a medium armor. And if you block it without a resource contingency plan you SOL anyways. And if you could break the link than the value of a heal like vigor is irrelevant to the point. You need to direct your comment to the individual who was placing stock in vigor as some kind of attempt at a counter argument.

Lexxypwns

@Daus you should really reconsider your stance on cloak, the extra healing from crit heals is insane and being able to force some projectiles to miss is also insane.

You’re not a coward for brawling and using cloak as a means to quickly reset a fight. That’ll allow you to run a damage set in place of a defensive one and improve your healing even more. This will allow you to truly capitalize on your Heavy Armor passives and also make your offense obviously more effective.

Strider__Roshin

Lexxypwns wrote: »

@Daus you should really reconsider your stance on cloak, the extra healing from crit heals is insane and being able to force some projectiles to miss is also insane.

You’re not a coward for brawling and using cloak as a means to quickly reset a fight. That’ll allow you to run a damage set in place of a defensive one and improve your healing even more. This will allow you to truly capitalize on your Heavy Armor passives and also make your offense obviously more effective.

Cloak doesn't crit heal anymore bud, and I've tried using cloak, and I just find it boring. I'd rather use my shield stacking sorc honestly. I can see how it could be situationally useful though such as instances like Soul Assault, but then I'd be giving up mirage which reinforces my play style more effectively than Cloak does. Truthfully medium armor may be in a better spot tomorrow with the Rune Cage and Mage's Fury changes

Xvorg

Daus wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

That way one morph is a free kill against stamina and the other is a free kill against magicka?

@Daus what is your vigor tooltip?

Not enough to counter potential 100k tooltips.

Obviously but that paired with rally should be enough in most cases. Block cost is roughly 16k without any blocking passives. That is definitely high but if you are playing on the ragged edge of being out of stam you are asking to be popped. I survived a templar's soul assault with a zaan proc on my stamplar so it is possible.

You can literally purge the zaan.

But 16k is out of stam?

I usually find that people defending the obviously intentionally OP skills used by bad players to secure ez kills are in fact bad players.

I've got to stand there and block for 4s while mitigating 70-100k tooltip while hoping my heals somehow work.

It's 8 ticks over 4s. Ignoring any dots on you which will make it cost up to double.

Then you add in the lost regen ticks which is 2 ticks worth which is usually 4-6k stamina lost.

Then you add in the heals costs, which is vigor which is expensive and a rally hoping you have rally and that it'll actually heal you noticeably.

So in the minimum end it's 16k + 4k + 4k (vigor) = 24k

In the maximum end its 32k (a block cost every 0.25s) + 6k (e.g. 3k regen) + 4k vigor + 3.5k rally.. ...

But still 1 cheap ultimate which is ranged and always hits will at the very least drain 20k stamina from someone.

In addition have a 70-100k tooltip which even in blocked in pvp is stil 17.5k- 25k dmg without armour/ cp.

This is all without including any dot dmg already on you or dmg of likelihood of the group behind the soul assault user because people who use this skill are never solo/ small scalers.

Yeah it's very balanced.

And after all this, experienced and skilled players, on all specs, typically don't die to soul assault.

I main a templar, which means I've used this a lot because my ultimate options are terrible. I've soul assaulted many many people. If it was half as deadly and good as you and others say it was, I would not have spent the past 2 years badgering ZOS to give Templars a legit ultimate.

You can come onto these forums and list out 100 reasons why this ultimate is in your estimation OP and that's fine. But being the user and the target of this ultimate time and again, I know it's not near the death sentence you're making it out to be, so if you're struggling against it, that tells me you're either biased or ought to get better at defending against it.

Defending this Ult is just as bad as defending Shield Breaker. No set nor ability should be a free win against particular specs.

Any set or skill that kills some, is a weak point against others. Do you think Shield Breaker is useful against a mDK? Do you think SA is usefull against a healbot or a streak sorc?

Skills and sets are there to be used by anyone who wants to use them in the way they want to use them. Asking for some form of "ethics" in a war game, that "forbids" people about using the tools the very same game provides, is just like forbidding people use a ball to play basketball because it bounces too much...

IAVITNI

CyrusArya wrote: »

Two things:

1.) The parallel to shields is healing, not dodge roll. If soul assault somehow negated and nullified healing ticks, this post might make sense.

2.) I don’t know any stam player worth their salt that is a “free kill” to soul assault alone in a vacuum. Especially not Nightblades of all classes, that can cloak the channel after 2 seconds lol. The skill is a nuisance when fired in an outnumbered context, in which case 3/4ths of the skills in the game are oppressive. Which even still, in an open world scenario, you can just run out of the skills range or line of sight.

Don’t get me wrong, I hate soul assault. But this post screams l2p. Then I remember you’re the dude that plays a cloakless medium armor stamblade and why most of your balance concerns can be dismissed.

I mean...coming from a magsorc main...why are you bashing on a night blade in MEDIUM that plays without Cloak? If anything that raises his credibility for this particular discussion.

Mechanically, Soul Assault is worse than Shield Breaker. It negates mediums primary defence mechanism in the same way SB negates shields. Healing is costly for both; SB requires targets to spam Healing Ward/Resto ultimate/Roll Dodge and Soul Assault forces a Rally proc+Vigor+Block and usually a pot that drains majority of stamina IF the target survives. The counter to SB is to run away and...oh wait...you can't run away from Soul Assault unless you are hugging a tree. The ONLY reason Soul Assault isn't as hated as SB is that it's an ultimate that forces a cooldown between use and requires a sacrifice that a good player knows is not worth.

*Edit--I think SB is incredibly broken and needs to be removed. Just drawing a parallel between 2 broken and oppressive mechanics.

Galarthor

IAVITNI wrote: »

I mean...coming from a magsorc main...why are you bashing on a night blade in MEDIUM that plays without Cloak? If anything that raises his credibility for this particular discussion.

Mechanically, Soul Assault is worse than Shield Breaker. It negates mediums primary defence mechanism in the same way SB negates shields. Healing is costly for both; SB requires targets to spam Healing Ward/Resto ultimate/Roll Dodge and Soul Assault forces a Rally proc+Vigor+Block and usually a pot that drains majority of stamina IF the target survives. The counter to SB is to run away and...oh wait...you can't run away from Soul Assault unless you are hugging a tree. The ONLY reason Soul Assault isn't as hated as SB is that it's an ultimate that forces a cooldown between use and requires a sacrifice that a good player knows is not worth.

*Edit--I think SB is incredibly broken and needs to be removed. Just drawing a parallel between 2 broken and oppressive mechanics.

1) No it does not. The skill being broke due to its spamability and lack of counters for certain classes is one thing. Bombarding the forums with nerf threads b/c you are refusing to use core class abilities while demonstrating a lack of understanding for basic game mechanics does not really raise your credibility.

That's like DKs running around naked calling for survivability buffs while their "dressed" class mates are face tanking 20 people in Cyro.


2) This comparison is inadequate.
One is an ulti that can easily be LOS'ed and out healed when being blocked. And especially NBs don't have to suffer the entire duration. So it effectively needs only 2 to 3.5 sec counterplay.
The other is a set that complete circumvents the defenses of the class and is proc'ed by light attacks that can be weaved in between your regular attacks which force your opponent to use their shields. It cannot be outhealed by the sorc. And it can be constantly spammed (unlike the ulti). And good luck outrunning a stambuild with a magbuild....

IAVITNI

Galarthor wrote: »

1) No it does not. The skill being broke due to its spamability and lack of counters for certain classes is one thing. Bombarding the forums with nerf threads b/c you are refusing to use core class abilities while demonstrating a lack of understanding for basic game mechanics does not really raise your credibility.

That's like DKs running around naked calling for survivability buffs while their "dressed" class mates are face tanking 20 people in Cyro.


2) This comparison is inadequate.
One is an ulti that can easily be LOS'ed and out healed when being blocked. And especially NBs don't have to suffer the entire duration. So it effectively needs only 2 to 3.5 sec counterplay.
The other is a set that complete circumvents the defenses of the class and is proc'ed by light attacks that can be weaved in between your regular attacks which force your opponent to use their shields. It cannot be outhealed by the sorc. And it can be constantly spammed (unlike the ulti). And good luck outrunning a stambuild with a magbuild....

1) I know of top tier players that that don't run Cloak on night blade. It is perfectly viable. The ones I know run heavy so medium is impressive for me. I'm just saying that stating a night blade doesn't run Cloak does not equate to them being bad. The class can be played without it. I don't know anything about the OP tbh.

2) I wasn't posting as a sorc v nb. Soul Assault is pretty much death on a medium stamplar. If you don't die, you are either in execute or you have no resources to continue the fight. Medium struggles a lot because of this. LoS is not a valid counter to anything. It is a valid alternative but should not be the primary counter. Blocking is far to detrimental to a medium user to be considered an effective counter. Against an equally skilled opponent, you're SoL once they Soul Assault, because you will gradually run out of stamina. By the third Soul Assault, you're pretty much dead with no counter play because the skill ticks so much, not because you got outplayed but because you couldn't kill your opponent before the third Soul Assault.