Fake PUG Roles

Thrain

e1team wrote: »

Thing is fakes think its totally ok and if something goes wrong, its never their fault. Yesterday I was pugging (as a sorc healer), think it was nSpindleclutch II, and we got two DDs below 50, me at cp300 and a cp780 fake tank. Before we even reached first boss, he rushed ahead, out of heal range, pulled all the trash and, sure enough, got insta gibbed. Then he's like "we don't have a healer or what?" "No" I say "we don't have a tank". Then him: "Who needs tank on normal?"... gee...

Cp 780 and dies in spindledutch 2?



If someone join a dungeon as fake tank then he should be able to solo this dungeon otherwhise he shouldnt even try it instead blaming it on the healer

visionality

I see the problem, but how is ZOS supposed to discern between reported fake tanks and simply bad tanks that are reported too? Or healers at that regard? Beside the fakers, there is a lot of players that are simply abysmally bad in their role. And on top, there is groups falling apart because some ppl dont know the mechanics or decide to ignore it. If everybody reports everybody they think should not be allowed to queue as tank or healer or dd because they are not up to their role, ZOS would have to ban 60% of all players from dungeons.

Itzmichi

Yeah great idea, sow hate among the players instead of being a role model and show them how to do better. This toxicity is killing the game, just saying.

Soon nobody will be able to complete dungeons as people vote everything out of the group, making the lfg tool useless and then we will be back to group forming via chat. Way to go:)

Thrain

Itsmichi wrote: »

Yeah great idea, sow hate among the players instead of being a role model and show them how to do better. This toxicity is killing the game, just saying.

Soon nobody will be able to complete dungeons as people vote everything out of the group, making the lfg tool useless and then we will be back to group forming via chat. Way to go:)

If you are farming a set and you were like 30 times before in this dungeon and every run takes 20-30min would you really keep beeing a role model?

e1team

Obviously we need an automated solution to this and not "reporting them to ZOS". It's ridiculous. Most likely class and stats check before entering dungeon. Someone already suggested that the class helper (or whatever it is called) could be used for that purpose. I'm ok with all the fake thing if fakes can carry the group through. In yesterdays example, our fake tank just melted everything granted I was spamming heals on him. But it was quick and easy.

mikemacon

“But...but...but...fake dee pee esses! Therefore fake tanks are cool, yo!”

Anyone who queues as a tank and (1) doesn’t have a taunt slotted and (2) if they happen by some miracle to grab aggro then proceed to run around with their arms flailing in the air like demented muppets, dragging the boss out of AOEs and killing group DPS, is a fake tank.

Someone however who is still learning the role and is honestly trying is not.

...see the difference?

Thrain

e1team wrote: »

Obviously we need an automated solution to this and not "reporting them to ZOS". It's ridiculous. Most likely class and stats check before entering dungeon. Someone already suggested that the class helper (or whatever it is called) could be used for that purpose. I'm ok with all the fake thing if fakes can carry the group through. In yesterdays example, our fake tank just melted everything granted I was spamming heals on him. But it was quick and easy.

then whats about a real tank with like 20k health but he tanks with his dmg shields?

mikemacon

blistb16_ESO wrote: »

Even with my healer I queue as a tank, else it takes forever to get a group, and most of the time it's with a fake tank anyways.
So I prefer to put plague doctor, a frost staff, inner, and do it myself.
Obviously I would not do this with the hardest dungeon.

The fact that you have an ice staff and therefore at least a passable taunt makes you a vastly better tank than the PVP Nightblade fake tank who is über impressed with his skeleton parse DPS and doesn’t think he should have to wait in the DD queue with the unwashed masses, runs two handed front bar bow back bar and no taunt.

pdblake

Could it just be down to ignorance?

My main character is a magicka sorceror. I use light armour, destruction staff, have a couple of crafted sets geared towards magicka regen and boost, use Deadric Summoning and Storm Calling.

I have no idea what role I would be in a group or even what my DPS is (or how to find out), which is why I play solo most of the time (being only level 38 has something to do with that too).

Thrain

pdblake wrote: »

Could it just be down to ignorance?

My main character is a magicka sorceror. I use light armour, destruction staff, have a couple of crafted sets geared towards magicka regen and boost, use Deadric Summoning and Storm Calling.

I have no idea what role I would be in a group or even what my DPS is (or how to find out), which is why I play solo most of the time (being only level 38 has something to do with that too).

ask in your guild (or in zone chat if you dont have one) if someone got a dummy at his home and if you could use it

you can beat the crap out of this dummy and after the fight he shows you in chat whats your dps is

But tbh with lvl38 you shouldnt do that
when you become lvl 160+ so you got your gear on max lvl then you can try it and if you dont want to taunt, dont heal and got more than 10k dps then youre dd^^

e1team

At least I, have found out there is a big difference between a fake tank/healer/DD and an ignorant one. Fake ones are self assured, selfish, smug, sometimes toxic. They rush ahead, complain and ragequit most of the times. Now (I'm sorry for what follows but...) russian players, for the most part, at least those who speak little to no english, are perfect examples of ignorant players: they try at all costs to finish the dungeon, try different tactics and they have no idea what they are supposed to do. Problem is there's often no one to guide them. I would but I don't have Cyrillic on my keyboard (yes I too am russian).

pdblake

Thrain wrote: »

pdblake wrote: »

Could it just be down to ignorance?

ask in your guild (or in zone chat if you dont have one) if someone got a dummy at his home and if you could use it

you can beat the crap out of this dummy and after the fight he shows you in chat whats your dps is

But tbh with lvl38 you shouldnt do that
when you become lvl 160+ so you got your gear on max lvl then you can try it and if you dont want to taunt, dont heal and got more than 10k dps then youre dd^^

Thanks for that. Not in a guild as yet, but seems I've got a way to go anyway.

raj72616a

pdblake wrote: »

Could it just be down to ignorance?

My main character is a magicka sorceror. I use light armour, destruction staff, have a couple of crafted sets geared towards magicka regen and boost, use Deadric Summoning and Storm Calling.

I have no idea what role I would be in a group or even what my DPS is (or how to find out), which is why I play solo most of the time (being only level 38 has something to do with that too).

at lv38 without CP you can't be an effective dps.
you can either queue as dps and let the fake tanks carry you, or you can gear up with heavy armor, frost staff and sword and shield, use food and enchants to push your health up to abt 25~30k, and queue as tank for normal dungeon. you don't need high stats to tank normal dungeon well.

Itzmichi

Thrain wrote: »

Itsmichi wrote: »

Yeah great idea, sow hate among the players instead of being a role model and show them how to do better. This toxicity is killing the game, just saying.

Soon nobody will be able to complete dungeons as people vote everything out of the group, making the lfg tool useless and then we will be back to group forming via chat. Way to go:)

If you are farming a set and you were like 30 times before in this dungeon and every run takes 20-30min would you really keep beeing a role model?

I do as I always have the option to leave if I don't feel like investing time in the game. And even if there is 1/4 of the Group a Fake X Role, normally a good players as pretty much everybody here thinks he/she is should be able to easily compensate at least that's possible if not 4/4 is garbage and they just trying to get rid of their anger by voting someone;)

Androconium

Lamiai wrote: »

Astrid_V wrote: »

How about running these dungeons with your friends and guildies, instead of banning random people for such a stupid reason

Does it really needed to be said that not everyone joins guilds, has friends playing or just doesn't want to guild up?

No, it doesn't.

But many guilds organise this sort of activity and this is the easiest way to avoid the issues raised here.

If like me, you choose to play dungeons on an ad-hoc, solo basis, then you need to accept that you have no choice in who you end up playing with. You can then choose to cope, have a hissy-fit, or not play.

But this endless, 'why can't random players be more like what I want them to be' crap gets boring after a while....

Lamiai

Astrid_V wrote: »

Lamiai wrote: »

Astrid_V wrote: »

How about running these dungeons with your friends and guildies, instead of banning random people for such a stupid reason

Does it really needed to be said that not everyone joins guilds, has friends playing or just doesn't want to guild up?

Then don't complain that you get grouped with trash.

Didn't complain once, just literally asking does this piece of information needed to be stated yet again, maybe ZoS should prevent players from messing around in group finder so players don't have to complain about it? Did you think of that? No, just what appeases yourself. Others play the game differently than your play style and thinking bud, I know thats hard to understand...........................................................

Stibbons

I have tanked as healer many times last week. Tanks just could not tank at all or did not even have aggro combos. Just stupid and they did not even have DPS. So as healer you must tank, heal and make good DPS because of dumasses.

Hetaira

Androconium wrote: »

ghwaite wrote: »

What requires training for a healer? ESO is one of the easiest games ever to be a healer in in mu opinion. Not getting killed by bosses trials I guess, but even then all characters should know the mechanics not just healers.

How would I know? i give up when toxic dungeon nazis start kicking other players that don't meet the selection criteria.

I'm generally the last person to kick, and I was with three friends the other day farm FL motifs. They had to initiate the kick like 5 times before I accept and several wipes on the bear before I did. This was a max level magsorc running without any shields, but was happy enough to cast caltrops on every pull up to and including bear. Their reason was that it 'slowed wolves' after tank called them out with a wtf? It didn't stop them from dying almost constantly by the wolves and aoe. I can heal stupid, but I generally choose not to. If my purify, blood altar, and mutagen isn't enough then you aren't even trying to avoid dmg.

JohnOfMarkarth

3 days game ban over this?
Seriously how very butthurt are you over this issue to ask for unthinkable punishment for rather mild in game offense. It might appear as a gross misconduct for you, fake-tagging, But it really is not. Its no botting or selling stuff for real life money. Such a ban is just a butthurt-ness screaming.
Temporarely banning a specific char from queuing as a specific role they aint fit for is more ... viable but imagine if some dps got butthurt over someone else's text in group chat and just decided to get them banned from their role in a dungeon over... personal pain. This is just too subjective to be acted upon and is so open to AbUsE that it would pretty muc bevome ' i dont like you, be gone' tool.

And gods:
"Community needs to cultivate zero-tolerance behavior against fake-role players ... Start vote-kick and leave after fail. Any role of mine. Any dungeon, even fungal 1 normal."

Simple answer. No. Dont press your agenda onto others. If someone is fine with it, their business not ours.
I understand the frustration. But. As someone whom for normal dungeons has been queued with fakers and faked normals (as healer, with a quick heal ability to keep the rest alive rest dps) myself... i know that its useful on normals. Be a *** all you want. Dont demand others to be. When they know they can do a normal fast with 3 or 4 self sufficient dps why not do it. Yes, its frustrating in vet. But your attitude is as undesired as is theirs.

And on the learning part? If a dps on normal that barely does *** gets always kicked, they never learn anything. And dont jus tell them to 'look up a build'. If they are so low and new, they will only get confused on those sites. Just try to help them a bit if you have the patience. Does not take much, just a question here and there and answer here and there and their dps can go from 5k to 10k and someone can work on that further in the next dungeon.
Helper over kicker. This community will quickly become too toxic and elitist for beginners if this attitude continues. Or did people forget... they were noobs themselves once?

zaria

visionality wrote: »

I see the problem, but how is ZOS supposed to discern between reported fake tanks and simply bad tanks that are reported too? Or healers at that regard? Beside the fakers, there is a lot of players that are simply abysmally bad in their role. And on top, there is groups falling apart because some ppl dont know the mechanics or decide to ignore it. If everybody reports everybody they think should not be allowed to queue as tank or healer or dd because they are not up to their role, ZOS would have to ban 60% of all players from dungeons.

This, lots of innocent noobs would be reported, still remember the group who managed to fail the dps check in nBC2
or the guy who tanked with one sword and nothing in left hand, he was level 40.
Not knowing how to play is not an reason to report.

jaschacasadiob16_ESO

e1team wrote: »

Thing is fakes think its totally ok and if something goes wrong, its never their fault. Yesterday I was pugging (as a sorc healer), think it was nSpindleclutch II, and we got two DDs below 50, me at cp300 and a cp780 fake tank. Before we even reached first boss, he rushed ahead, out of heal range, pulled all the trash and, sure enough, got insta gibbed. Then he's like "we don't have a healer or what?" "No" I say "we don't have a tank". Then him: "Who needs tank on normal?"... gee...

Slot drink from chalice and use it. Let them run ahead and die miserably. Write "gj champ" in chat. Leave.

Nox_Noir

I queue as "fake healer" all the time. Wanna know why?
Because if I queue as DD it usually takes like an hour or so for the damn queue. So i'll rather improvise than sit there and do nothing. I slot vigor or some equivalent heal ability and am able to perform the minimum requirement for the "fake role" i queued as, if it is even necessary. Or similarly as "fake tank" if that's easier on that pericular char. Just slot a taunt and maybe even sword n board front bar if available and good to go.
Afterall, we're talking about NORMAL dungeons here aren't we? Do you really need a dedicated healer to beat that?

Agenericname

smacky wrote: »

It used t be occasionally that you would queue for a a random normal dungeon, and get a Fake Tank or Healer (ie: DPS queuing as a role they cannot perform).

In the last week I have encountered no less than 12 Fake Tanks - Typically Pet Scors queud as Tanks (No Ice Staff) and at least 20 Healers who were not healers.

Since I spend up tp 40 minutes queuing for a dungeon, to then get Scalecaller Peak with a fake tank and/or healer means it simply cannot be done, especially on Vet.
Can we have some kind of reporting system, where if someobody is a repeat offender, they are warned, then perhaps sanctioned in some way.

Possible Options:
1. Disable the role they are "abusing"
2 .Temporary ban from the game 3 days or so.

DPS is something that is imossible to monitor, but it is also the easiest class to replace almost instantly, where we have to wait for tanks and healers.

In pre-fromed groups, prevent the ability to report (as it would be discussed before entering the dungeon)

This is something which affects other players gameplay, and if we leave the dungeon, we have 15 minute penalty to queue again.

The problem is with any type of report system is its potential for abuse. At some point it simply becomes mob rule, especially with a sanction of any type attached. I highly doubt we will ever see that.

Salvas_Aren

smacky wrote: »

It used t be occasionally that you would queue for a a random normal dungeon, and get a Fake Tank or Healer (ie: DPS queuing as a role they cannot perform).

Can we have some kind of reporting system, where if someobody is a repeat offender, they are warned, then perhaps sanctioned in some way.

This is something which affects other players gameplay, and if we leave the dungeon, we have 15 minute penalty to queue again.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

its simple put them on ignore then u won't group with them

AlnilamE

Androconium wrote: »

Cope. Not everyone's perfect, like you.

I have started many times to train a healer character, but how to get experience in a dungeon without being called "fake"....
... especially when one of the DPS takes over the healer function.

Should I try a tank and see how long that lasts instead?
Nope. But I bail as soon as there is a kick vote. That leaves two roles to fill then.

This is a game; and you clowns are playing it way too seriously.

I think most people are satisfied if their healer heals and their tank taunts. At least for normal dungeons. So if you are earnestly trying to be a healer and you are wielding a resto staff (or are a Templar or a sorc using the matriarch heal) you should have no issues. Same with a tank with sword and board that is trying to taunt the proper adds.

But if you are trying to "train as a healer" on a stamblade wearing VO and Hundings who doesn't have Vigor, you might encounter some resistance...

ATomiX96 wrote: »

Well i mean they could restrict certain classes to perform certain roles, oh wait #PlayAsYouWant.
Therefore they cant really restrict anyone from queueing as anything.
And of course people are gonna abuse it. Best you can do is report people and hope that Zos does something against them, which they wont unless they are bot-farmers and gold-sellers as well at the same time.

Please tell me which class in the game cannot heal or tank given the proper gear?

AlnilamE

gamergirldk wrote: »

I would start they make cap so low lev cant enter a dlc dungons.. I am tired of getting stuck With low lev that took a random and got in a dlc. They just die when trash is looking at them.
Especially the 2 New dungons..

There is a cap.

FearlessOne_2014

This is why I don't PUG. PUGing in this game is especially cancerous to the mental health. Fake tanks and healers at every turn trying to beat the dungeon queue times as dps.

Better to not be bothered at all. But I do see have rare, Dungeon guilds have become in this game. So yeah good luck!

LordSarevok

So... I have a tank. A real one. Want to know what my number one problem in PUG dungeons is? Ineffective dps. I also have some decent dps characters. nothing to write home about but I pull about 37K on my mag sorc and about 35K on my stam DK (Dps is my second choice, I prefer to tank) If I go in any normal dungeon you bet your ass I'm taking my Sorc with inner fire on back bar. I know the mechanics, layout, when to interrupt, etc. In most, if not all cases I pull more dps than both other "dps" in the group and probably tank better than most. So you would vote to kick me?

AlnilamE

raj72616a wrote: »

pdblake wrote: »

Could it just be down to ignorance?

My main character is a magicka sorceror. I use light armour, destruction staff, have a couple of crafted sets geared towards magicka regen and boost, use Deadric Summoning and Storm Calling.

I have no idea what role I would be in a group or even what my DPS is (or how to find out), which is why I play solo most of the time (being only level 38 has something to do with that too).

at lv38 without CP you can't be an effective dps.
you can either queue as dps and let the fake tanks carry you, or you can gear up with heavy armor, frost staff and sword and shield, use food and enchants to push your health up to abt 25~30k, and queue as tank for normal dungeon. you don't need high stats to tank normal dungeon well.

You would be surprised at how well a level 38 can do with the battle scaling in dungeons. Your DPS actually goes down by the time you hit 50.