Maintenance for the week of January 5:
· [COMPLETE] NA megaservers for maintenance – January 7, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EST (15:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] EU megaservers for maintenance – January 7, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EST (15:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] NA megaservers for maintenance – January 7, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EST (15:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] EU megaservers for maintenance – January 7, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EST (15:00 UTC)
Please stop trying to be World of Warcraft
-
the_other_Alice✭✭✭Hell you can play both, only one of them or none and be happy...
Why are you all are so bothered about what originated when and which one is "better" as far as any subjective view can go?
In fact instead of screaming "Copycat!" or "I like my game better!" be glad if they actually learn and benefit from the experiences and faults the other one brings along...that would be a real win for every ESO and WoW player.""I meant," said Ipslore bitterly, "what is there in this world that truly makes living worthwhile?"
Death thought about it. CATS, he said eventually. CATS ARE NICE. "
(Terry Pratchett)“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?”
( Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass)
"I don't think..."
"Then you shouldn't talk", said the Hatter.”
(Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland)- Gildenleitung Not like the Otters -1 -
ATomiX96✭✭✭✭✭
✭
not anymore. as in BFA everythng is locked behind tedious reputation grind. even 'new' allied races (at least HM Taureans and Nightborn) require reputations from OLD expansion. it is rediculous. in the past i could roll BE or goblin or pandaren withough any rep grind.Azuramoonstar wrote: »Also WoW is and has always been "real life" friendly.
LOL highmountain tauren and nightborn take like 2 weeks to get if you play 30 minutes a day ... much grind. Its not really a classic grind, the problem is you are kinda timegated to level up those reps to max which is definitly a problem, especially when the expansion is even outdated. And for highmountain especially you can even farm it infinitly since nethalions lair 3rd boss gives you rep upon killing him fyi.
Also no one forces you to grind 24/7 in BfA to get the new allied races within the first week ... if you just do daylies which take like 15 minutes a day you'll get there eventually. You can play the game casually and still have fun.Edited by ATomiX96 on September 6, 2018 9:50AM1 -
JamieAubrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭As someone who's never played WoW I could have read the article 1000 times and still wouldn't none the wiser, I know that WoW has a Lich King ?, so are the LIch's in ESO named after those guys ?
I odnt even no where I'm going with this
*RUNS OUT THE ROOM*3 -
Ydrisselle✭✭✭✭✭Azuramoonstar wrote: »Sailor_Palutena wrote: »More like WoW copying Disney. I can't stand Elsa Proudmoore. Oops Jaina.
Jaina is all Frozen Queen now.
i noticed that she was a healing priest last i knew and friend to thrall. where she get the ice magic? did she get the power from the lich king?
She was always a mage from Warcraft 3 to this day. If you think she was a priest you clearly didn't even read the quest texts and watched the in-game videos, or simply mistook her with somebody else (although I have no idea who). She was a friend of Thrall, but since then the Horde destroyed her city and killed everyone except her, so right now she wants vengeance. And this story happened 4 years ago.0 -
the question is why did they do it in the first place? you know what a NEW player has to do to start HM Tauren? just 2 weeks, really? without level boost donation )s)he will spend at least one month getting to LegionLOL highmountain tauren and nightborn take like 2 weeks to get if you play 30 minutes a day ... much grind.
to even start gaining rep with hm tribe. Blizz never implemented it before when they added news races to the game. so something has happened and they needed this time gating.
and of course no one forces me to play BFA that is why i mentioned in my other post that i did unsub/uninstall1 -
i cant even remmeber any major figure in wow to be priest besides Velen.Ydrisselle wrote: »Azuramoonstar wrote: »Sailor_Palutena wrote: »More like WoW copying Disney. I can't stand Elsa Proudmoore. Oops Jaina.
Jaina is all Frozen Queen now.
i noticed that she was a healing priest last i knew and friend to thrall. where she get the ice magic? did she get the power from the lich king?
She was always a mage from Warcraft 3 to this day. If you think she was a priest you clearly didn't even read the quest texts and watched the in-game videos, or simply mistook her with somebody else (although I have no idea who). She was a friend of Thrall, but since then the Horde destroyed her city and killed everyone except her, so right now she wants vengeance. And this story happened 4 years ago.
0 -
Slack✭✭✭✭✭Ominous Bot-Trains in Battlegrounds, Eso stealing from Wow. And not to forget the Moon Hunter - Black Rock reference.
This guy reveals the real conspiraciesPC EU
Betty Breeze - Magwarden
Hunts S'hitblades - Stamplar
Aschavi - Magplar0 -
Ydrisselle✭✭✭✭✭
i cant even remmeber any major figure in wow to be priest besides Velen.Ydrisselle wrote: »Azuramoonstar wrote: »Sailor_Palutena wrote: »More like WoW copying Disney. I can't stand Elsa Proudmoore. Oops Jaina.
Jaina is all Frozen Queen now.
i noticed that she was a healing priest last i knew and friend to thrall. where she get the ice magic? did she get the power from the lich king?
She was always a mage from Warcraft 3 to this day. If you think she was a priest you clearly didn't even read the quest texts and watched the in-game videos, or simply mistook her with somebody else (although I have no idea who). She was a friend of Thrall, but since then the Horde destroyed her city and killed everyone except her, so right now she wants vengeance. And this story happened 4 years ago.
Tyrande Whisperwind, Anduin Wrynn, Moira Bronzebeard/Thaurissan just without any thinking...0 -
antoniotf5✭✭✭If they were trying to be WoW they wouldn't add mounts exclusively to the store and they would let us farm them.
Try again buddy.2 -
Nicko_Lps✭✭✭✭✭Azuramoonstar wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »ESO can barely stand against the WoW giant. ESO lacks quality of life and has a broken soul. Fun fact - blizzard is currently eyeing up the market of ESO and is developing a direct competitor.
I currently play ESO because it is at least functional and fun on a playable level and the content is obviously a lot different then WoW. However once all caught up on DLCs and other content my playtime will be very little in this game, mostly to stay on top of released content.
ZOS doesn't have the dedicated development power it seems. Or their management has no clue how manage resources. I can't fathom why the game is in the state it is after four years of post release development. FF14 was shamed to death until it was reborn.
I really don't like getting into Game A is better than Game B discussions because these things are personal and subjective. So, let me get personal...
In my case, going into early 2014, I was coming off of WoW Panda and had planned to pre-order Draenor. I was a long time continuous subscriber to WoW, having been introduced to it by my gaming friends. ESO was not on my radar, at all, despite being an Elder Scrolls fan. I knew it was being developed, at some level, but paid absolutely no attention to anything related to the game. No screen shots. No interviews. No trailers or videos. I was unaware that the game was even in beta until late February, when someone gave me a "bring a friend" beta weekend key and told me to try it.
I created an account on February 27 for the upcoming weekend beta, played during the weekend, and pre-ordered the Imperial Edition on March 4. It was a bumpy start, but I am still playing that account and World of Warcraft is long forgotten.
The reality is that World of Warcraft never stood a chance, with me. A couple hours of playing the broken beta of ESO completely eclipsed YEARS of playing World of Warcraft.
So, yeah, tell me how great WoW is compared to ESO.
No everybody can play WoW mate, its very competitive and entirely non noob friendly. Unlike ESO.
Mained in legion a mistweaver monk, 16key rotation + 3 key dps combo for mana recovery. 7.2.5 top monks EU, came to eso and healing here is: healing springs/shards-balls/BoL/Combat prayer. No, not for me.
In WoW pve there are good and bad dpsing/healing/tanking classes. But you need to have all of them. Youre not just taking the OP magblades with you and beat the 13 mechanics? cloudrest +3 endgame PvE.
In WoW pvp there are good and bad classes, there are comps that work good with a bad class along with them and most likely if you find what youre comfortable playing with any class can top pvp ranks. (Ranks in WoW is not alliance war ranks.)
Personally ive quit WoW for ESO simply because its a full time job. Its not a game, im too old for that 24/7 grinding + i have a job + real life. Eso atm is chill mode, i wish i could play WoW but i cant have 2 full time jobs
i played WoW on and off it pretty much is new player friendly, always has been which it is why the member count hit 12mil. A fluke in the industry, WoW isn't all that competitive and around when i was playing it was all about who had the bigger boots in pvp.
Also WoW is and has always been "real life" friendly.
If you farm pets and mounts while you stay in orgrimmar AH yes its RL friendly.
Other than that, i assume you never played wow in a competitive level. If you did, paste me your warcraftlogs page and ill tell you how competitive you where.
Have a nice day.I played WoW for a long time. I started over there in Alpha testing. I literally had a dwarven mage before they were taken out of game and then subsequently brought back. (I was salty after their removal and only played Horde for a long while after).
I enjoyed World of Warcraft. I played it for a very long time. In fact, I played it right through ESO's beta (which I was fortunate enough to play) and up until after the first 30 days of ESO's release.
I am often boggled by the ESO=WoW comparison. They are not the same. Not even close.
ESO has never tried to *be* World of Warcraft any more than literally ANY fantasy MMO has tried to *be* WoW.
World of Warcraft is/was the RPGMMO to which all other MMOs have been held up to for a long time. Most games I've played since have someone popping into their chats to say how much "just like WoW this game is". Here's a secret truth for all y'all: Most games of this nature share a lot of the same things: battlegrounds; similar classes; similar environs; character tropes; etc. So by their very nature <insert MMO here> is going to be "just like Wow" or "trying too hard to be just like ESO" or "lolz, didn't I see this mechanic in Rift?"
I feel like those holding up a game to another game and saying "look at what you did here!" would be much better served by explaining and expressing what it is about *this* game that needs looking at and tweaking rather than just shouting "Look! It's exactly like <insert other MMO here>!" and waving one's arms about pretending that isn't exactly what you expected in the first place.
So, in ESO after-beta with 100x bugs + lags + exploits made you successfully forget wow?
You where the fishing and mount farming in old raids + LFR hero in WoW?
I was a WoW hater, ESO afterbeta made me a wow fanatic.
Also,dont wanna be rude to you or anybody else that loves ESO as much as i do but ESO cant be WoW and will never be.
If ZoS could make ESO like WoW they would, untill then lets fix the 6 months old combat bug of 1 hour + in cyrodiil or the sticky sprint.
Easy steps..One by One.
funny story. early versions of ESO were actualy closer to WoW. they changed it to be more like ES games, practically remade the game from scratch. so no, ZoS woudln't make ESO more like WoW if they could, when they did the exact opposite already. WoW on the other hand, HAS been borrowing from ZoS, what with how they implemented scaling and all as well as loosely warfronts.
If you think Blizzard is borrowing up things from Bethesda i better not answer you at all.
Scaling is not a ZoS invention, ive had games in game gear and game boy that had scaling on. Now if you think that ZoS created it, its fine by me.
ESO's early versions had nothing to do with WoW, ZoS created ESO for ex-skyrim players who only did light attacks, that is the exactly oposite of whats going on in WoW. ESO will always be a noob friendly game therefore a million miles away from becoming WoW.0 -
JitchDaddy✭✭✭It is no secret that the company that calls itself Blizzard Entertainment has been busy bees all summer, and will continue to be busy bees for awhile.
For example, all of this is or was scheduled to happen in the summer months:
Overwatch League Playoffs and Grand Finals (which is wrapping up this weekend)
Battle for Azeroth Launch (on August 14)
Several new Heroes and Hero Reworks in Heroes of the Storm (ongoing)
Hearthstone Expansion (on August 7)
Starcraft 2 8th Anniversary (ongoing)
Heroes Global Championship Eastern and Western Clashes (in mid-August)
New Overwatch Hero (released a few days ago)
And there are likely several other major Blizzard events that I missed.
It's no secret that ZeniMax is going to suffer temporary losses in player numbers as several players try out Blizzard games. But in almost every case, players find something that annoys them and they come right back to the game they enjoyed (in this case, ESO). And I will tell you right now, the amount of bugs Blizzard games are suffering from is staggering, which only will hurt Blizzard in the long run.
ALL THAT BEING SAID, I happened to check ESO news today and discovered that ZeniMax (either accidentally or intentionally) is now trying to copy World of Warcraft.
For example, the Meet the Character - Commander Varian article had several major red flags, from the Order of the Silver Dawn (an obvious attempt to parody the Order of the Silver Hand), to Varian (which is fittingly also the name of the former High King in World of Warcraft) to Moon Hunter Keep, which is a loose reference to Black Rook Keep in World of Warcraft.
****************************
Look, Elder Scrolls Online is NOT going to be the next World of Warcraft...Blizzard has too many resources (in terms of manpower and money) at their disposal. So, instead of copying things from World of Warcraft in an attempt to try and gain more popularity, focus on building the Elder Scrolls brand I've come to love. The Elder Scrolls universe is unique, and that uniqueness plus this community is what always keeps me playing in Tamriel, either through Skyrim or ESO.
Rant done.
The structure of the game is entirely different than WoW. If anything, they went out of their way NOT to be like WoW.2 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
More since it looks like WOW is copying stuff from ESO. They got individual loot now, no more need / greed.Titansteele wrote: »I miss the "lol" button
And it makes sense game copying features they see work in other games.
lmao personal loot is in wow since forever, but now they forced personal loot in raids to make it fair for everyone. eso fanboy trying to throw shade upon the superior mmorpg. LUL
its been there for like.. 2 expansions? AFTER ESO came out. is WoW a superior game? eh. subjective and entirely up to personal preference.
also.. WoW has been extremely alt unfriendly since legion. its even more so right now. artifact grinds (weapons in legion, heart of azerite in BfA) make champion points look like the most casual thing EVER.Edited by Linaleah on September 6, 2018 5:08PMdirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***0 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Azuramoonstar wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »ESO can barely stand against the WoW giant. ESO lacks quality of life and has a broken soul. Fun fact - blizzard is currently eyeing up the market of ESO and is developing a direct competitor.
I currently play ESO because it is at least functional and fun on a playable level and the content is obviously a lot different then WoW. However once all caught up on DLCs and other content my playtime will be very little in this game, mostly to stay on top of released content.
ZOS doesn't have the dedicated development power it seems. Or their management has no clue how manage resources. I can't fathom why the game is in the state it is after four years of post release development. FF14 was shamed to death until it was reborn.
I really don't like getting into Game A is better than Game B discussions because these things are personal and subjective. So, let me get personal...
In my case, going into early 2014, I was coming off of WoW Panda and had planned to pre-order Draenor. I was a long time continuous subscriber to WoW, having been introduced to it by my gaming friends. ESO was not on my radar, at all, despite being an Elder Scrolls fan. I knew it was being developed, at some level, but paid absolutely no attention to anything related to the game. No screen shots. No interviews. No trailers or videos. I was unaware that the game was even in beta until late February, when someone gave me a "bring a friend" beta weekend key and told me to try it.
I created an account on February 27 for the upcoming weekend beta, played during the weekend, and pre-ordered the Imperial Edition on March 4. It was a bumpy start, but I am still playing that account and World of Warcraft is long forgotten.
The reality is that World of Warcraft never stood a chance, with me. A couple hours of playing the broken beta of ESO completely eclipsed YEARS of playing World of Warcraft.
So, yeah, tell me how great WoW is compared to ESO.
No everybody can play WoW mate, its very competitive and entirely non noob friendly. Unlike ESO.
Mained in legion a mistweaver monk, 16key rotation + 3 key dps combo for mana recovery. 7.2.5 top monks EU, came to eso and healing here is: healing springs/shards-balls/BoL/Combat prayer. No, not for me.
In WoW pve there are good and bad dpsing/healing/tanking classes. But you need to have all of them. Youre not just taking the OP magblades with you and beat the 13 mechanics? cloudrest +3 endgame PvE.
In WoW pvp there are good and bad classes, there are comps that work good with a bad class along with them and most likely if you find what youre comfortable playing with any class can top pvp ranks. (Ranks in WoW is not alliance war ranks.)
Personally ive quit WoW for ESO simply because its a full time job. Its not a game, im too old for that 24/7 grinding + i have a job + real life. Eso atm is chill mode, i wish i could play WoW but i cant have 2 full time jobs
i played WoW on and off it pretty much is new player friendly, always has been which it is why the member count hit 12mil. A fluke in the industry, WoW isn't all that competitive and around when i was playing it was all about who had the bigger boots in pvp.
Also WoW is and has always been "real life" friendly.
If you farm pets and mounts while you stay in orgrimmar AH yes its RL friendly.
Other than that, i assume you never played wow in a competitive level. If you did, paste me your warcraftlogs page and ill tell you how competitive you where.
Have a nice day.I played WoW for a long time. I started over there in Alpha testing. I literally had a dwarven mage before they were taken out of game and then subsequently brought back. (I was salty after their removal and only played Horde for a long while after).
I enjoyed World of Warcraft. I played it for a very long time. In fact, I played it right through ESO's beta (which I was fortunate enough to play) and up until after the first 30 days of ESO's release.
I am often boggled by the ESO=WoW comparison. They are not the same. Not even close.
ESO has never tried to *be* World of Warcraft any more than literally ANY fantasy MMO has tried to *be* WoW.
World of Warcraft is/was the RPGMMO to which all other MMOs have been held up to for a long time. Most games I've played since have someone popping into their chats to say how much "just like WoW this game is". Here's a secret truth for all y'all: Most games of this nature share a lot of the same things: battlegrounds; similar classes; similar environs; character tropes; etc. So by their very nature <insert MMO here> is going to be "just like Wow" or "trying too hard to be just like ESO" or "lolz, didn't I see this mechanic in Rift?"
I feel like those holding up a game to another game and saying "look at what you did here!" would be much better served by explaining and expressing what it is about *this* game that needs looking at and tweaking rather than just shouting "Look! It's exactly like <insert other MMO here>!" and waving one's arms about pretending that isn't exactly what you expected in the first place.
So, in ESO after-beta with 100x bugs + lags + exploits made you successfully forget wow?
You where the fishing and mount farming in old raids + LFR hero in WoW?
I was a WoW hater, ESO afterbeta made me a wow fanatic.
Also,dont wanna be rude to you or anybody else that loves ESO as much as i do but ESO cant be WoW and will never be.
If ZoS could make ESO like WoW they would, untill then lets fix the 6 months old combat bug of 1 hour + in cyrodiil or the sticky sprint.
Easy steps..One by One.
funny story. early versions of ESO were actualy closer to WoW. they changed it to be more like ES games, practically remade the game from scratch. so no, ZoS woudln't make ESO more like WoW if they could, when they did the exact opposite already. WoW on the other hand, HAS been borrowing from ZoS, what with how they implemented scaling and all as well as loosely warfronts.
If you think Blizzard is borrowing up things from Bethesda i better not answer you at all.
Scaling is not a ZoS invention, ive had games in game gear and game boy that had scaling on. Now if you think that ZoS created it, its fine by me.
ESO's early versions had nothing to do with WoW, ZoS created ESO for ex-skyrim players who only did light attacks, that is the exactly oposite of whats going on in WoW. ESO will always be a noob friendly game therefore a million miles away from becoming WoW.
you haven't seen early versions of ESO have you.... https://www.polygon.com/features/2016/10/14/13285014/elder-scrolls-online-one-tamriel-skyrim-mmo for reference. they actualy had to completely revamp their original alpha. but first iteration of ESO WAS more like WoW, before they changed it to be more like Skyrim, etc, becasue that is what players wanted.
in any case. while scaling is not a new thing, this is what blizzard does and have ALWAYS done. they look at what other games do, not just Bethesda either. they see what works and what doesn't. they see which implementations are more popular. and then they put their own spin and spit and shine on it and add it to WoW. they have been doing it for as long as they existed as a gaming company - and if you deny it, you are being willfully blind. so yeah.. I'm reasonably certain that revival one tamriel revamp brought to ESO had something to do with WoW scaling as it works right now.
P.S. I've noticed you mentioning something about WoW being more hardcore, more abilities or something. i don't know where you last played but other then adding more and more tedious grinds, they have been pruning the HECK out of abilities. I think MoP might have been peak of how many buttons you would use per character. in Vanilla and BC most extra buttons were just spell ranks becasue mana conservation and overhealing. I believe it was Wrath that did away with spell ranks. another ironic thing here is one of the MAIN reasons why WoW was and is as successful as it is it becasue they give you variety of things you could get in other games... but more casual friendly. (other then end game grinds - but I guess it goes with their "easy to learn/ difficult to master" philosophy). and its not just WoW either. Healrthstone is a less complicated Magic the gathering. Overwatch is basicaly team fortress with more colorful character and more accessible mechanics, at least for some of those characters. WoW is primarily Everquest with a bunch of odds and ends thrown in, then made more casual friendly. I will say one thing WoW does unequivocally better then ESO. explains how to play it. ESO can be confusing as heck to a new player. WoW takes all the thought out of how to spec, or get abilities as you level. ESO pretty much throws you into a deep end and tells you to swim.Edited by Linaleah on September 6, 2018 5:40PMdirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***2 -
wenchmore420b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Why not compare ESO to Dark Age of Camelot? Matt Fior came from there.
Or Guild Wars? I heard they are very similar?
Lmao! I never played either but aren't ALL MMO's similar in lots of ways?
Didn't all "Fantasy Games" Borrow from Gygax, Moorecock, Tolkien, etc?
But as far as ESO vs WoW, Imo,
Eso has better graphics.
Eso has a better storyline/lore.
Eso has a better PvP experience. (Yes, I know the Cyrodiil issues, but those aside).
ESO has better combat. (Imo)
I watched some of my fam play WoW from Alpha. I was already a TES fan then. (Yes TES pre-dates WoW, but not the Warcraft Franchise, which started the same year as TES:1, 1994).
After 6 years of watching them play WoW for hours at a time, they talked me into playing. This was just after "Cataclysm".
I played till the "Kung Fu Panda" expansion. Had enough and went back to Tamriel.
I have to agree with others that ZoS tried to not be like WoW and I'm SO glad they did.
Had they made ESO like WoW I wouldn't have 8.5k hours played and still love it. I wouldn't have made it through beta.
Just my 2 drakes...
Huzzah!Drakon Koryn~Oryndill, Rogue~Mage,- CP ~Doesn't matter any more
NA / PC Beta Member since Nov 2013
GM~Conclave-of-Shadows, EP Social Guild, ~Proud member of: The Wandering Merchants, Phoenix Rising, Imperial Trade Union & Celestials of Nirn
Sister Guilds with: Coroner's Report, Children of Skyrim, Sunshine Daydream, Tamriel Fisheries, Knights Arcanum and more
"Not All Who Wander are Lost"
#MOREHOUSINGSLOTS“When the people that can make the company more successful are sales and marketing people, they end up running the companies. The product people get driven out of the decision making forums, and the companies forget what it means to make great products.”
_Steve Jobs (The Lost Interview)3 -
Nicko_Lps✭✭✭✭✭Azuramoonstar wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »ESO can barely stand against the WoW giant. ESO lacks quality of life and has a broken soul. Fun fact - blizzard is currently eyeing up the market of ESO and is developing a direct competitor.
I currently play ESO because it is at least functional and fun on a playable level and the content is obviously a lot different then WoW. However once all caught up on DLCs and other content my playtime will be very little in this game, mostly to stay on top of released content.
ZOS doesn't have the dedicated development power it seems. Or their management has no clue how manage resources. I can't fathom why the game is in the state it is after four years of post release development. FF14 was shamed to death until it was reborn.
I really don't like getting into Game A is better than Game B discussions because these things are personal and subjective. So, let me get personal...
In my case, going into early 2014, I was coming off of WoW Panda and had planned to pre-order Draenor. I was a long time continuous subscriber to WoW, having been introduced to it by my gaming friends. ESO was not on my radar, at all, despite being an Elder Scrolls fan. I knew it was being developed, at some level, but paid absolutely no attention to anything related to the game. No screen shots. No interviews. No trailers or videos. I was unaware that the game was even in beta until late February, when someone gave me a "bring a friend" beta weekend key and told me to try it.
I created an account on February 27 for the upcoming weekend beta, played during the weekend, and pre-ordered the Imperial Edition on March 4. It was a bumpy start, but I am still playing that account and World of Warcraft is long forgotten.
The reality is that World of Warcraft never stood a chance, with me. A couple hours of playing the broken beta of ESO completely eclipsed YEARS of playing World of Warcraft.
So, yeah, tell me how great WoW is compared to ESO.
No everybody can play WoW mate, its very competitive and entirely non noob friendly. Unlike ESO.
Mained in legion a mistweaver monk, 16key rotation + 3 key dps combo for mana recovery. 7.2.5 top monks EU, came to eso and healing here is: healing springs/shards-balls/BoL/Combat prayer. No, not for me.
In WoW pve there are good and bad dpsing/healing/tanking classes. But you need to have all of them. Youre not just taking the OP magblades with you and beat the 13 mechanics? cloudrest +3 endgame PvE.
In WoW pvp there are good and bad classes, there are comps that work good with a bad class along with them and most likely if you find what youre comfortable playing with any class can top pvp ranks. (Ranks in WoW is not alliance war ranks.)
Personally ive quit WoW for ESO simply because its a full time job. Its not a game, im too old for that 24/7 grinding + i have a job + real life. Eso atm is chill mode, i wish i could play WoW but i cant have 2 full time jobs
i played WoW on and off it pretty much is new player friendly, always has been which it is why the member count hit 12mil. A fluke in the industry, WoW isn't all that competitive and around when i was playing it was all about who had the bigger boots in pvp.
Also WoW is and has always been "real life" friendly.
If you farm pets and mounts while you stay in orgrimmar AH yes its RL friendly.
Other than that, i assume you never played wow in a competitive level. If you did, paste me your warcraftlogs page and ill tell you how competitive you where.
Have a nice day.I played WoW for a long time. I started over there in Alpha testing. I literally had a dwarven mage before they were taken out of game and then subsequently brought back. (I was salty after their removal and only played Horde for a long while after).
I enjoyed World of Warcraft. I played it for a very long time. In fact, I played it right through ESO's beta (which I was fortunate enough to play) and up until after the first 30 days of ESO's release.
I am often boggled by the ESO=WoW comparison. They are not the same. Not even close.
ESO has never tried to *be* World of Warcraft any more than literally ANY fantasy MMO has tried to *be* WoW.
World of Warcraft is/was the RPGMMO to which all other MMOs have been held up to for a long time. Most games I've played since have someone popping into their chats to say how much "just like WoW this game is". Here's a secret truth for all y'all: Most games of this nature share a lot of the same things: battlegrounds; similar classes; similar environs; character tropes; etc. So by their very nature <insert MMO here> is going to be "just like Wow" or "trying too hard to be just like ESO" or "lolz, didn't I see this mechanic in Rift?"
I feel like those holding up a game to another game and saying "look at what you did here!" would be much better served by explaining and expressing what it is about *this* game that needs looking at and tweaking rather than just shouting "Look! It's exactly like <insert other MMO here>!" and waving one's arms about pretending that isn't exactly what you expected in the first place.
So, in ESO after-beta with 100x bugs + lags + exploits made you successfully forget wow?
You where the fishing and mount farming in old raids + LFR hero in WoW?
I was a WoW hater, ESO afterbeta made me a wow fanatic.
Also,dont wanna be rude to you or anybody else that loves ESO as much as i do but ESO cant be WoW and will never be.
If ZoS could make ESO like WoW they would, untill then lets fix the 6 months old combat bug of 1 hour + in cyrodiil or the sticky sprint.
Easy steps..One by One.
funny story. early versions of ESO were actualy closer to WoW. they changed it to be more like ES games, practically remade the game from scratch. so no, ZoS woudln't make ESO more like WoW if they could, when they did the exact opposite already. WoW on the other hand, HAS been borrowing from ZoS, what with how they implemented scaling and all as well as loosely warfronts.
If you think Blizzard is borrowing up things from Bethesda i better not answer you at all.
Scaling is not a ZoS invention, ive had games in game gear and game boy that had scaling on. Now if you think that ZoS created it, its fine by me.
ESO's early versions had nothing to do with WoW, ZoS created ESO for ex-skyrim players who only did light attacks, that is the exactly oposite of whats going on in WoW. ESO will always be a noob friendly game therefore a million miles away from becoming WoW.
you haven't seen early versions of ESO have you.... https://www.polygon.com/features/2016/10/14/13285014/elder-scrolls-online-one-tamriel-skyrim-mmo for reference. they actualy had to completely revamp their original alpha. but first iteration of ESO WAS more like WoW, before they changed it to be more like Skyrim, etc, becasue that is what players wanted.
in any case. while scaling is not a new thing, this is what blizzard does and have ALWAYS done. they look at what other games do, not just Bethesda either. they see what works and what doesn't. they see which implementations are more popular. and then they put their own spin and spit and shine on it and add it to WoW. they have been doing it for as long as they existed as a gaming company - and if you deny it, you are being willfully blind. so yeah.. I'm reasonably certain that revival one tamriel revamp brought to ESO had something to do with WoW scaling as it works right now.
P.S. I've noticed you mentioning something about WoW being more hardcore, more abilities or something. i don't know where you last played but other then adding more and more tedious grinds, they have been pruning the HECK out of abilities. I think MoP might have been peak of how many buttons you would use per character. in Vanilla and BC most extra buttons were just spell ranks becasue mana conservation and overhealing. I believe it was Wrath that did away with spell ranks. another ironic thing here is one of the MAIN reasons why WoW was and is as successful as it is it becasue they give you variety of things you could get in other games... but more casual friendly. (other then end game grinds - but I guess it goes with their "easy to learn/ difficult to master" philosophy). and its not just WoW either. Healrthstone is a less complicated Magic the gathering. Overwatch is basicaly team fortress with more colorful character and more accessible mechanics, at least for some of those characters. WoW is primarily Everquest with a bunch of odds and ends thrown in, then made more casual friendly. I will say one thing WoW does unequivocally better then ESO. explains how to play it. ESO can be confusing as heck to a new player. WoW takes all the thought out of how to spec, or get abilities as you level. ESO pretty much throws you into a deep end and tells you to swim.
I dont know how you came to the conclusion that i havent seen early ESO versions, i was playing ESO since beta.
I stoped some months after it came live, played abit in IC then quitted it until a year ago that i started burning my circuits in ESO. ESO was never like WoW, and honestly dont want it to be like WoW. I rather play WoW than a cheap clone of it.
Agree that Blizzard has been cutting down all abilities in game but as ive said: My mistweaver healing rotation was like 16 keys + 3 keys to dps mana recovery.Mistweavers are melee range healers when fistweaving during progress and low ilvls, i had to fly back to rangeDPS stack spot and AoE heal them+ Heals on WoW are not Auto, you have to target and know when looking your UI WHERE exactly that dps is to go close to it and heal it, at least as a mistweaver. That was a mistweaver fighting for rankings+mythic raiding spot, what does a templar do in the hardest raid of ESO? Does he press more from like 5-6 buttons?
My WoD DK rotation was like 10keys in frost and 12 keys about in Unholy. You can sure play in WoW a BM huntard with like 3 keys? But thats not the representative of the games skill required.
My windwalker rotation was far more than 13 keys, pretty complicated and the most punishing spec in game. Pressing the same key as windwalker you loose 60% damage from your master + 16% from hit combo that you need 8 GDC's to stack up again, but as much as i loved it a good healer with 95%-99% rankings is always most wanted from a good dps.
Also WoW is at least 10x more hardcore than ESO, the reason that i abandoned it ofc. But not when somebody is being a typical LFR hero ofc..When you raid mythic. Did you ever raid in mythic diff in wow? You have any cutting edge? Did you reach to a point that you will compete inside warcraftlogs with the whole european crowd playing wow? Yes wow is 10x more hardcore than ESO and at least 10x harder to master your class in it. Magblades are by far the hardest dps and spec/role ingame,i really dont think they have a slight chance to compare with a windwalker or a dumbed down feral druid(since legion) or even worst from a shadow priest.
Im not gonna tell you much, just check mechanics mannoroth - archimonde - kiljaeden - blackhand bosses in MYTHIC difficulty and compare the amount of mechanics with the hardest content you face in ESO that you claimed its harder. Do i have to add that you have 1 ressurection and you get a second after 2.5 min? Not dying again and again while your resplar spends a soulgem..
Im saying this again. I dont want ESO to become WoW. I left WoW because im too old to grind and too old to wipe 120 times on sisters of the moon with the 3rd best realm guild. ESO is freedom, i want it to stay as it is.Edited by Nicko_Lps on September 6, 2018 6:16PM0 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Azuramoonstar wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »ESO can barely stand against the WoW giant. ESO lacks quality of life and has a broken soul. Fun fact - blizzard is currently eyeing up the market of ESO and is developing a direct competitor.
I currently play ESO because it is at least functional and fun on a playable level and the content is obviously a lot different then WoW. However once all caught up on DLCs and other content my playtime will be very little in this game, mostly to stay on top of released content.
ZOS doesn't have the dedicated development power it seems. Or their management has no clue how manage resources. I can't fathom why the game is in the state it is after four years of post release development. FF14 was shamed to death until it was reborn.
I really don't like getting into Game A is better than Game B discussions because these things are personal and subjective. So, let me get personal...
In my case, going into early 2014, I was coming off of WoW Panda and had planned to pre-order Draenor. I was a long time continuous subscriber to WoW, having been introduced to it by my gaming friends. ESO was not on my radar, at all, despite being an Elder Scrolls fan. I knew it was being developed, at some level, but paid absolutely no attention to anything related to the game. No screen shots. No interviews. No trailers or videos. I was unaware that the game was even in beta until late February, when someone gave me a "bring a friend" beta weekend key and told me to try it.
I created an account on February 27 for the upcoming weekend beta, played during the weekend, and pre-ordered the Imperial Edition on March 4. It was a bumpy start, but I am still playing that account and World of Warcraft is long forgotten.
The reality is that World of Warcraft never stood a chance, with me. A couple hours of playing the broken beta of ESO completely eclipsed YEARS of playing World of Warcraft.
So, yeah, tell me how great WoW is compared to ESO.
No everybody can play WoW mate, its very competitive and entirely non noob friendly. Unlike ESO.
Mained in legion a mistweaver monk, 16key rotation + 3 key dps combo for mana recovery. 7.2.5 top monks EU, came to eso and healing here is: healing springs/shards-balls/BoL/Combat prayer. No, not for me.
In WoW pve there are good and bad dpsing/healing/tanking classes. But you need to have all of them. Youre not just taking the OP magblades with you and beat the 13 mechanics? cloudrest +3 endgame PvE.
In WoW pvp there are good and bad classes, there are comps that work good with a bad class along with them and most likely if you find what youre comfortable playing with any class can top pvp ranks. (Ranks in WoW is not alliance war ranks.)
Personally ive quit WoW for ESO simply because its a full time job. Its not a game, im too old for that 24/7 grinding + i have a job + real life. Eso atm is chill mode, i wish i could play WoW but i cant have 2 full time jobs
i played WoW on and off it pretty much is new player friendly, always has been which it is why the member count hit 12mil. A fluke in the industry, WoW isn't all that competitive and around when i was playing it was all about who had the bigger boots in pvp.
Also WoW is and has always been "real life" friendly.
If you farm pets and mounts while you stay in orgrimmar AH yes its RL friendly.
Other than that, i assume you never played wow in a competitive level. If you did, paste me your warcraftlogs page and ill tell you how competitive you where.
Have a nice day.I played WoW for a long time. I started over there in Alpha testing. I literally had a dwarven mage before they were taken out of game and then subsequently brought back. (I was salty after their removal and only played Horde for a long while after).
I enjoyed World of Warcraft. I played it for a very long time. In fact, I played it right through ESO's beta (which I was fortunate enough to play) and up until after the first 30 days of ESO's release.
I am often boggled by the ESO=WoW comparison. They are not the same. Not even close.
ESO has never tried to *be* World of Warcraft any more than literally ANY fantasy MMO has tried to *be* WoW.
World of Warcraft is/was the RPGMMO to which all other MMOs have been held up to for a long time. Most games I've played since have someone popping into their chats to say how much "just like WoW this game is". Here's a secret truth for all y'all: Most games of this nature share a lot of the same things: battlegrounds; similar classes; similar environs; character tropes; etc. So by their very nature <insert MMO here> is going to be "just like Wow" or "trying too hard to be just like ESO" or "lolz, didn't I see this mechanic in Rift?"
I feel like those holding up a game to another game and saying "look at what you did here!" would be much better served by explaining and expressing what it is about *this* game that needs looking at and tweaking rather than just shouting "Look! It's exactly like <insert other MMO here>!" and waving one's arms about pretending that isn't exactly what you expected in the first place.
So, in ESO after-beta with 100x bugs + lags + exploits made you successfully forget wow?
You where the fishing and mount farming in old raids + LFR hero in WoW?
I was a WoW hater, ESO afterbeta made me a wow fanatic.
Also,dont wanna be rude to you or anybody else that loves ESO as much as i do but ESO cant be WoW and will never be.
If ZoS could make ESO like WoW they would, untill then lets fix the 6 months old combat bug of 1 hour + in cyrodiil or the sticky sprint.
Easy steps..One by One.
funny story. early versions of ESO were actualy closer to WoW. they changed it to be more like ES games, practically remade the game from scratch. so no, ZoS woudln't make ESO more like WoW if they could, when they did the exact opposite already. WoW on the other hand, HAS been borrowing from ZoS, what with how they implemented scaling and all as well as loosely warfronts.
If you think Blizzard is borrowing up things from Bethesda i better not answer you at all.
Scaling is not a ZoS invention, ive had games in game gear and game boy that had scaling on. Now if you think that ZoS created it, its fine by me.
ESO's early versions had nothing to do with WoW, ZoS created ESO for ex-skyrim players who only did light attacks, that is the exactly oposite of whats going on in WoW. ESO will always be a noob friendly game therefore a million miles away from becoming WoW.
you haven't seen early versions of ESO have you.... https://www.polygon.com/features/2016/10/14/13285014/elder-scrolls-online-one-tamriel-skyrim-mmo for reference. they actualy had to completely revamp their original alpha. but first iteration of ESO WAS more like WoW, before they changed it to be more like Skyrim, etc, becasue that is what players wanted.
in any case. while scaling is not a new thing, this is what blizzard does and have ALWAYS done. they look at what other games do, not just Bethesda either. they see what works and what doesn't. they see which implementations are more popular. and then they put their own spin and spit and shine on it and add it to WoW. they have been doing it for as long as they existed as a gaming company - and if you deny it, you are being willfully blind. so yeah.. I'm reasonably certain that revival one tamriel revamp brought to ESO had something to do with WoW scaling as it works right now.
P.S. I've noticed you mentioning something about WoW being more hardcore, more abilities or something. i don't know where you last played but other then adding more and more tedious grinds, they have been pruning the HECK out of abilities. I think MoP might have been peak of how many buttons you would use per character. in Vanilla and BC most extra buttons were just spell ranks becasue mana conservation and overhealing. I believe it was Wrath that did away with spell ranks. another ironic thing here is one of the MAIN reasons why WoW was and is as successful as it is it becasue they give you variety of things you could get in other games... but more casual friendly. (other then end game grinds - but I guess it goes with their "easy to learn/ difficult to master" philosophy). and its not just WoW either. Healrthstone is a less complicated Magic the gathering. Overwatch is basicaly team fortress with more colorful character and more accessible mechanics, at least for some of those characters. WoW is primarily Everquest with a bunch of odds and ends thrown in, then made more casual friendly. I will say one thing WoW does unequivocally better then ESO. explains how to play it. ESO can be confusing as heck to a new player. WoW takes all the thought out of how to spec, or get abilities as you level. ESO pretty much throws you into a deep end and tells you to swim.
I dont know how you came to the conclusion that i havent seen early ESO versions, i was playing ESO since beta.
I stoped some months after it came live, played abit in IC then quitted it until a year ago that i started burning my circuits in ESO. ESO was never like WoW, and honestly dont want it to be like WoW. I rather play WoW than a cheap clone of it.
Agree that Blizzard has been cutting down all abilities in game but as ive said: My mistweaver healing rotation was like 16 keys + 3 keys to dps mana recovery. That was a mistweaver fighting for rankings+mythic raiding spot, what does a templar do in the hardest raid of ESO? Does he press more from like 5-6 buttons?
My WoD DK rotation was like 10keys in frost and 12 keys about in Unholy. You can sure play in WoW a BM huntard with like 3 keys? But thats not the representative of the games skill required.
My windwalker rotation was far more than 13 keys, pretty complicated and the most punishing spec in game. Pressing the same key as windwalker you loose 60% damage from your master + 16% from hit combo that you need 8 GDC's to stack up again, but as much as i loved it a good healer with 95%-99% rankings is always most wanted from a good dps.
Also WoW is at least 10x more hardcore than ESO, the reason that i abandoned it ofc. But not when somebody is being a typical LFR hero ofc..When you raid mythic. Did you ever raid in mythic diff in wow? You have any cutting edge? When you reach to a point that you will compete inside warcraftlogs with the whole european crowd playing wow? Yes wow is 10x more hardcore than ESO and at least 10x harder to master your class in it. Magblades are by far the hardest dps and spec/role ingame,i really dont think they have a slight chance to compare with a windwalker or a dumbed down feral druid(since legion) or even worst from a shadow priest.
Im not gonna tell you much, just check mannoroth archimonde kiljaeden blackhand bosses in MYTHIC difficulty and compare the amount of mechanics with the hardest content you face in ESO that you claimed its harder.
Im saying this again. I dont want ESO to become WoW. I left WoW because im too old to grind and too old to wipe 120 times on the 5th boss with the 3rd best realm guild. ESO is freedom, i want it to stay as it is.
read the article. please. by the time ESO made it to Beta it was already changed to be more like Skyrim. that is NOT however what it started out as. READ. THE. ARTICLE. it even has screenshots.
moreover. if your rotation as a healer in ESO is only 4 buttons, you are being as what you so derisively called "LFR hero"
last but not least. WoW has hardcore parts, but WoW as a whole is NOT hardcore and has NEVER been hardcore. that's their whole shtick.
dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***2 -
SirAxen✭✭✭✭✭
ESO does a lot more than just graphics over WoW, my friend. In the end though, it is all subjective. Overall though, the Elder Scrolls lore and immersive nature of it's world pushes it beyond any sort of gameplay limitations.1 -
Nicko_Lps✭✭✭✭✭Azuramoonstar wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »ESO can barely stand against the WoW giant. ESO lacks quality of life and has a broken soul. Fun fact - blizzard is currently eyeing up the market of ESO and is developing a direct competitor.
I currently play ESO because it is at least functional and fun on a playable level and the content is obviously a lot different then WoW. However once all caught up on DLCs and other content my playtime will be very little in this game, mostly to stay on top of released content.
ZOS doesn't have the dedicated development power it seems. Or their management has no clue how manage resources. I can't fathom why the game is in the state it is after four years of post release development. FF14 was shamed to death until it was reborn.
I really don't like getting into Game A is better than Game B discussions because these things are personal and subjective. So, let me get personal...
In my case, going into early 2014, I was coming off of WoW Panda and had planned to pre-order Draenor. I was a long time continuous subscriber to WoW, having been introduced to it by my gaming friends. ESO was not on my radar, at all, despite being an Elder Scrolls fan. I knew it was being developed, at some level, but paid absolutely no attention to anything related to the game. No screen shots. No interviews. No trailers or videos. I was unaware that the game was even in beta until late February, when someone gave me a "bring a friend" beta weekend key and told me to try it.
I created an account on February 27 for the upcoming weekend beta, played during the weekend, and pre-ordered the Imperial Edition on March 4. It was a bumpy start, but I am still playing that account and World of Warcraft is long forgotten.
The reality is that World of Warcraft never stood a chance, with me. A couple hours of playing the broken beta of ESO completely eclipsed YEARS of playing World of Warcraft.
So, yeah, tell me how great WoW is compared to ESO.
No everybody can play WoW mate, its very competitive and entirely non noob friendly. Unlike ESO.
Mained in legion a mistweaver monk, 16key rotation + 3 key dps combo for mana recovery. 7.2.5 top monks EU, came to eso and healing here is: healing springs/shards-balls/BoL/Combat prayer. No, not for me.
In WoW pve there are good and bad dpsing/healing/tanking classes. But you need to have all of them. Youre not just taking the OP magblades with you and beat the 13 mechanics? cloudrest +3 endgame PvE.
In WoW pvp there are good and bad classes, there are comps that work good with a bad class along with them and most likely if you find what youre comfortable playing with any class can top pvp ranks. (Ranks in WoW is not alliance war ranks.)
Personally ive quit WoW for ESO simply because its a full time job. Its not a game, im too old for that 24/7 grinding + i have a job + real life. Eso atm is chill mode, i wish i could play WoW but i cant have 2 full time jobs
i played WoW on and off it pretty much is new player friendly, always has been which it is why the member count hit 12mil. A fluke in the industry, WoW isn't all that competitive and around when i was playing it was all about who had the bigger boots in pvp.
Also WoW is and has always been "real life" friendly.
If you farm pets and mounts while you stay in orgrimmar AH yes its RL friendly.
Other than that, i assume you never played wow in a competitive level. If you did, paste me your warcraftlogs page and ill tell you how competitive you where.
Have a nice day.I played WoW for a long time. I started over there in Alpha testing. I literally had a dwarven mage before they were taken out of game and then subsequently brought back. (I was salty after their removal and only played Horde for a long while after).
I enjoyed World of Warcraft. I played it for a very long time. In fact, I played it right through ESO's beta (which I was fortunate enough to play) and up until after the first 30 days of ESO's release.
I am often boggled by the ESO=WoW comparison. They are not the same. Not even close.
ESO has never tried to *be* World of Warcraft any more than literally ANY fantasy MMO has tried to *be* WoW.
World of Warcraft is/was the RPGMMO to which all other MMOs have been held up to for a long time. Most games I've played since have someone popping into their chats to say how much "just like WoW this game is". Here's a secret truth for all y'all: Most games of this nature share a lot of the same things: battlegrounds; similar classes; similar environs; character tropes; etc. So by their very nature <insert MMO here> is going to be "just like Wow" or "trying too hard to be just like ESO" or "lolz, didn't I see this mechanic in Rift?"
I feel like those holding up a game to another game and saying "look at what you did here!" would be much better served by explaining and expressing what it is about *this* game that needs looking at and tweaking rather than just shouting "Look! It's exactly like <insert other MMO here>!" and waving one's arms about pretending that isn't exactly what you expected in the first place.
So, in ESO after-beta with 100x bugs + lags + exploits made you successfully forget wow?
You where the fishing and mount farming in old raids + LFR hero in WoW?
I was a WoW hater, ESO afterbeta made me a wow fanatic.
Also,dont wanna be rude to you or anybody else that loves ESO as much as i do but ESO cant be WoW and will never be.
If ZoS could make ESO like WoW they would, untill then lets fix the 6 months old combat bug of 1 hour + in cyrodiil or the sticky sprint.
Easy steps..One by One.
funny story. early versions of ESO were actualy closer to WoW. they changed it to be more like ES games, practically remade the game from scratch. so no, ZoS woudln't make ESO more like WoW if they could, when they did the exact opposite already. WoW on the other hand, HAS been borrowing from ZoS, what with how they implemented scaling and all as well as loosely warfronts.
If you think Blizzard is borrowing up things from Bethesda i better not answer you at all.
Scaling is not a ZoS invention, ive had games in game gear and game boy that had scaling on. Now if you think that ZoS created it, its fine by me.
ESO's early versions had nothing to do with WoW, ZoS created ESO for ex-skyrim players who only did light attacks, that is the exactly oposite of whats going on in WoW. ESO will always be a noob friendly game therefore a million miles away from becoming WoW.
you haven't seen early versions of ESO have you.... https://www.polygon.com/features/2016/10/14/13285014/elder-scrolls-online-one-tamriel-skyrim-mmo for reference. they actualy had to completely revamp their original alpha. but first iteration of ESO WAS more like WoW, before they changed it to be more like Skyrim, etc, becasue that is what players wanted.
in any case. while scaling is not a new thing, this is what blizzard does and have ALWAYS done. they look at what other games do, not just Bethesda either. they see what works and what doesn't. they see which implementations are more popular. and then they put their own spin and spit and shine on it and add it to WoW. they have been doing it for as long as they existed as a gaming company - and if you deny it, you are being willfully blind. so yeah.. I'm reasonably certain that revival one tamriel revamp brought to ESO had something to do with WoW scaling as it works right now.
P.S. I've noticed you mentioning something about WoW being more hardcore, more abilities or something. i don't know where you last played but other then adding more and more tedious grinds, they have been pruning the HECK out of abilities. I think MoP might have been peak of how many buttons you would use per character. in Vanilla and BC most extra buttons were just spell ranks becasue mana conservation and overhealing. I believe it was Wrath that did away with spell ranks. another ironic thing here is one of the MAIN reasons why WoW was and is as successful as it is it becasue they give you variety of things you could get in other games... but more casual friendly. (other then end game grinds - but I guess it goes with their "easy to learn/ difficult to master" philosophy). and its not just WoW either. Healrthstone is a less complicated Magic the gathering. Overwatch is basicaly team fortress with more colorful character and more accessible mechanics, at least for some of those characters. WoW is primarily Everquest with a bunch of odds and ends thrown in, then made more casual friendly. I will say one thing WoW does unequivocally better then ESO. explains how to play it. ESO can be confusing as heck to a new player. WoW takes all the thought out of how to spec, or get abilities as you level. ESO pretty much throws you into a deep end and tells you to swim.
I dont know how you came to the conclusion that i havent seen early ESO versions, i was playing ESO since beta.
I stoped some months after it came live, played abit in IC then quitted it until a year ago that i started burning my circuits in ESO. ESO was never like WoW, and honestly dont want it to be like WoW. I rather play WoW than a cheap clone of it.
Agree that Blizzard has been cutting down all abilities in game but as ive said: My mistweaver healing rotation was like 16 keys + 3 keys to dps mana recovery. That was a mistweaver fighting for rankings+mythic raiding spot, what does a templar do in the hardest raid of ESO? Does he press more from like 5-6 buttons?
My WoD DK rotation was like 10keys in frost and 12 keys about in Unholy. You can sure play in WoW a BM huntard with like 3 keys? But thats not the representative of the games skill required.
My windwalker rotation was far more than 13 keys, pretty complicated and the most punishing spec in game. Pressing the same key as windwalker you loose 60% damage from your master + 16% from hit combo that you need 8 GDC's to stack up again, but as much as i loved it a good healer with 95%-99% rankings is always most wanted from a good dps.
Also WoW is at least 10x more hardcore than ESO, the reason that i abandoned it ofc. But not when somebody is being a typical LFR hero ofc..When you raid mythic. Did you ever raid in mythic diff in wow? You have any cutting edge? When you reach to a point that you will compete inside warcraftlogs with the whole european crowd playing wow? Yes wow is 10x more hardcore than ESO and at least 10x harder to master your class in it. Magblades are by far the hardest dps and spec/role ingame,i really dont think they have a slight chance to compare with a windwalker or a dumbed down feral druid(since legion) or even worst from a shadow priest.
Im not gonna tell you much, just check mannoroth archimonde kiljaeden blackhand bosses in MYTHIC difficulty and compare the amount of mechanics with the hardest content you face in ESO that you claimed its harder.
Im saying this again. I dont want ESO to become WoW. I left WoW because im too old to grind and too old to wipe 120 times on the 5th boss with the 3rd best realm guild. ESO is freedom, i want it to stay as it is.
read the article. please. by the time ESO made it to Beta it was already changed to be more like Skyrim. that is NOT however what it started out as. READ. THE. ARTICLE. it even has screenshots.
moreover. if your rotation as a healer in ESO is only 4 buttons, you are being as what you so derisively called "LFR hero"
last but not least. WoW has hardcore parts, but WoW as a whole is NOT hardcore and has NEVER been hardcore. that's their whole shtick.
Healing springs?
BoL-mutagen?
Balls?
Combat prayer?
Eledrain?
Blockade?
ritual?
Rune?
If you add the 20 sec ritual eledrain rune, i can always add more to my wow rotation like racial and the 2 major CD's my class had.
Teach me the rest please?
But i wont tell you what i was doing as a monk, you can go check youself at warcraft logs Rondakunfu@stormscale pre 7.2.5 there you can see how much healing i do, healing i take. Damage i do damage i take, and what skill causes my damage done and damage taken.
My mythic logs depends or the healing cooldowns the healing officer had made up(according to his desire to rank himself) Check my heroic rankings at that version.
When we talk about how demanding a game is, we dont talk when someone is doing pet battles around kalimdor in WoW or for a guy that does fishing in reapers march. We tend to usually talk about end-game stuff right?
Now check WoW end-game PVE diff. In the bosses ive asked you to, quick look? wowhead then check ESO endgame mechanics.
Then take the 10 best PVP players of ESO and put them at a ranked arena of not much 1700 rating and cry out with the results.
These 3300 R1 gladiators are something i never speak of, lets focus of the 1700 tier.
PvP in wow is even more demanding, you dont have to drain your opponents stamina to kill him or burst him in a single CC, you have to chew up all his defensive CD's land a CC on his healer or both healer and healing/shielding co-dps and land a kill.
While ESO META pvp is like 6 wardens 2 dks 1 stamblade 1 magsorc and 1 magplar running around towers stacking on vigors and focusing 3-4 dawnbreakers in 1 random 500 cp dude thats chasing them around the tower like a mad dog.0 -
OneForSorrow✭✭✭✭I play both games and both have their perks.
WoW is clean, streamlined and has a focus on endgame.
ESO is more focused on player freedom and immersion.
Each makes a perfect palate cleanser for the other.
Lately most of my time is in ESO, I barely play WoW. The new expansion is good but to me it just feels like more Legion. I need to take a vacation from it.PC NA. Various alts, trying to find a main, I have no idea what I'm doing.2 -
SilverWF✭✭✭✭✭
✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »1. Blizzard games are some of the most polished on the market
ZOS is definitely not copying WoW as far as polish, ZOS finds some way to make the game worse every patch...
ESO has these events and it's done so poorly it drives more long time customers away than it attracts. The forums constantly have posts by returning players just utterly disappointed.
Virtually every other mmo i have played (about 40 of them) has made vast improvements by the 2 year mark, zos is 4+ years in and *** show keeps getting worse. Summerset patch broke console for a month and the lag and server performance this weekend is *** pathetic.
Server performance was excellent this weekend. Queues were too long but performance was almost perfect.
You are clearly arguing emotion instead of fact, and you are deluded if you think these forums represent the player base.
PC EU server is pretty bad and every EU player know that.- PC EU. Ebonheart Pact. CP 1k+
- YouTube: All ESO disguises (2014)
- EU players are humans too! We want our maintenances in the least pop time (at deep night) and not lasted for several hours!
- Animation canceR - is true PvP cancer! When you can't see which actions your opponent do - you can't react properly on them!
0 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Azuramoonstar wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »ESO can barely stand against the WoW giant. ESO lacks quality of life and has a broken soul. Fun fact - blizzard is currently eyeing up the market of ESO and is developing a direct competitor.
I currently play ESO because it is at least functional and fun on a playable level and the content is obviously a lot different then WoW. However once all caught up on DLCs and other content my playtime will be very little in this game, mostly to stay on top of released content.
ZOS doesn't have the dedicated development power it seems. Or their management has no clue how manage resources. I can't fathom why the game is in the state it is after four years of post release development. FF14 was shamed to death until it was reborn.
I really don't like getting into Game A is better than Game B discussions because these things are personal and subjective. So, let me get personal...
In my case, going into early 2014, I was coming off of WoW Panda and had planned to pre-order Draenor. I was a long time continuous subscriber to WoW, having been introduced to it by my gaming friends. ESO was not on my radar, at all, despite being an Elder Scrolls fan. I knew it was being developed, at some level, but paid absolutely no attention to anything related to the game. No screen shots. No interviews. No trailers or videos. I was unaware that the game was even in beta until late February, when someone gave me a "bring a friend" beta weekend key and told me to try it.
I created an account on February 27 for the upcoming weekend beta, played during the weekend, and pre-ordered the Imperial Edition on March 4. It was a bumpy start, but I am still playing that account and World of Warcraft is long forgotten.
The reality is that World of Warcraft never stood a chance, with me. A couple hours of playing the broken beta of ESO completely eclipsed YEARS of playing World of Warcraft.
So, yeah, tell me how great WoW is compared to ESO.
No everybody can play WoW mate, its very competitive and entirely non noob friendly. Unlike ESO.
Mained in legion a mistweaver monk, 16key rotation + 3 key dps combo for mana recovery. 7.2.5 top monks EU, came to eso and healing here is: healing springs/shards-balls/BoL/Combat prayer. No, not for me.
In WoW pve there are good and bad dpsing/healing/tanking classes. But you need to have all of them. Youre not just taking the OP magblades with you and beat the 13 mechanics? cloudrest +3 endgame PvE.
In WoW pvp there are good and bad classes, there are comps that work good with a bad class along with them and most likely if you find what youre comfortable playing with any class can top pvp ranks. (Ranks in WoW is not alliance war ranks.)
Personally ive quit WoW for ESO simply because its a full time job. Its not a game, im too old for that 24/7 grinding + i have a job + real life. Eso atm is chill mode, i wish i could play WoW but i cant have 2 full time jobs
i played WoW on and off it pretty much is new player friendly, always has been which it is why the member count hit 12mil. A fluke in the industry, WoW isn't all that competitive and around when i was playing it was all about who had the bigger boots in pvp.
Also WoW is and has always been "real life" friendly.
If you farm pets and mounts while you stay in orgrimmar AH yes its RL friendly.
Other than that, i assume you never played wow in a competitive level. If you did, paste me your warcraftlogs page and ill tell you how competitive you where.
Have a nice day.I played WoW for a long time. I started over there in Alpha testing. I literally had a dwarven mage before they were taken out of game and then subsequently brought back. (I was salty after their removal and only played Horde for a long while after).
I enjoyed World of Warcraft. I played it for a very long time. In fact, I played it right through ESO's beta (which I was fortunate enough to play) and up until after the first 30 days of ESO's release.
I am often boggled by the ESO=WoW comparison. They are not the same. Not even close.
ESO has never tried to *be* World of Warcraft any more than literally ANY fantasy MMO has tried to *be* WoW.
World of Warcraft is/was the RPGMMO to which all other MMOs have been held up to for a long time. Most games I've played since have someone popping into their chats to say how much "just like WoW this game is". Here's a secret truth for all y'all: Most games of this nature share a lot of the same things: battlegrounds; similar classes; similar environs; character tropes; etc. So by their very nature <insert MMO here> is going to be "just like Wow" or "trying too hard to be just like ESO" or "lolz, didn't I see this mechanic in Rift?"
I feel like those holding up a game to another game and saying "look at what you did here!" would be much better served by explaining and expressing what it is about *this* game that needs looking at and tweaking rather than just shouting "Look! It's exactly like <insert other MMO here>!" and waving one's arms about pretending that isn't exactly what you expected in the first place.
So, in ESO after-beta with 100x bugs + lags + exploits made you successfully forget wow?
You where the fishing and mount farming in old raids + LFR hero in WoW?
I was a WoW hater, ESO afterbeta made me a wow fanatic.
Also,dont wanna be rude to you or anybody else that loves ESO as much as i do but ESO cant be WoW and will never be.
If ZoS could make ESO like WoW they would, untill then lets fix the 6 months old combat bug of 1 hour + in cyrodiil or the sticky sprint.
Easy steps..One by One.
funny story. early versions of ESO were actualy closer to WoW. they changed it to be more like ES games, practically remade the game from scratch. so no, ZoS woudln't make ESO more like WoW if they could, when they did the exact opposite already. WoW on the other hand, HAS been borrowing from ZoS, what with how they implemented scaling and all as well as loosely warfronts.
If you think Blizzard is borrowing up things from Bethesda i better not answer you at all.
Scaling is not a ZoS invention, ive had games in game gear and game boy that had scaling on. Now if you think that ZoS created it, its fine by me.
ESO's early versions had nothing to do with WoW, ZoS created ESO for ex-skyrim players who only did light attacks, that is the exactly oposite of whats going on in WoW. ESO will always be a noob friendly game therefore a million miles away from becoming WoW.
you haven't seen early versions of ESO have you.... https://www.polygon.com/features/2016/10/14/13285014/elder-scrolls-online-one-tamriel-skyrim-mmo for reference. they actualy had to completely revamp their original alpha. but first iteration of ESO WAS more like WoW, before they changed it to be more like Skyrim, etc, becasue that is what players wanted.
in any case. while scaling is not a new thing, this is what blizzard does and have ALWAYS done. they look at what other games do, not just Bethesda either. they see what works and what doesn't. they see which implementations are more popular. and then they put their own spin and spit and shine on it and add it to WoW. they have been doing it for as long as they existed as a gaming company - and if you deny it, you are being willfully blind. so yeah.. I'm reasonably certain that revival one tamriel revamp brought to ESO had something to do with WoW scaling as it works right now.
P.S. I've noticed you mentioning something about WoW being more hardcore, more abilities or something. i don't know where you last played but other then adding more and more tedious grinds, they have been pruning the HECK out of abilities. I think MoP might have been peak of how many buttons you would use per character. in Vanilla and BC most extra buttons were just spell ranks becasue mana conservation and overhealing. I believe it was Wrath that did away with spell ranks. another ironic thing here is one of the MAIN reasons why WoW was and is as successful as it is it becasue they give you variety of things you could get in other games... but more casual friendly. (other then end game grinds - but I guess it goes with their "easy to learn/ difficult to master" philosophy). and its not just WoW either. Healrthstone is a less complicated Magic the gathering. Overwatch is basicaly team fortress with more colorful character and more accessible mechanics, at least for some of those characters. WoW is primarily Everquest with a bunch of odds and ends thrown in, then made more casual friendly. I will say one thing WoW does unequivocally better then ESO. explains how to play it. ESO can be confusing as heck to a new player. WoW takes all the thought out of how to spec, or get abilities as you level. ESO pretty much throws you into a deep end and tells you to swim.
I dont know how you came to the conclusion that i havent seen early ESO versions, i was playing ESO since beta.
I stoped some months after it came live, played abit in IC then quitted it until a year ago that i started burning my circuits in ESO. ESO was never like WoW, and honestly dont want it to be like WoW. I rather play WoW than a cheap clone of it.
Agree that Blizzard has been cutting down all abilities in game but as ive said: My mistweaver healing rotation was like 16 keys + 3 keys to dps mana recovery. That was a mistweaver fighting for rankings+mythic raiding spot, what does a templar do in the hardest raid of ESO? Does he press more from like 5-6 buttons?
My WoD DK rotation was like 10keys in frost and 12 keys about in Unholy. You can sure play in WoW a BM huntard with like 3 keys? But thats not the representative of the games skill required.
My windwalker rotation was far more than 13 keys, pretty complicated and the most punishing spec in game. Pressing the same key as windwalker you loose 60% damage from your master + 16% from hit combo that you need 8 GDC's to stack up again, but as much as i loved it a good healer with 95%-99% rankings is always most wanted from a good dps.
Also WoW is at least 10x more hardcore than ESO, the reason that i abandoned it ofc. But not when somebody is being a typical LFR hero ofc..When you raid mythic. Did you ever raid in mythic diff in wow? You have any cutting edge? When you reach to a point that you will compete inside warcraftlogs with the whole european crowd playing wow? Yes wow is 10x more hardcore than ESO and at least 10x harder to master your class in it. Magblades are by far the hardest dps and spec/role ingame,i really dont think they have a slight chance to compare with a windwalker or a dumbed down feral druid(since legion) or even worst from a shadow priest.
Im not gonna tell you much, just check mannoroth archimonde kiljaeden blackhand bosses in MYTHIC difficulty and compare the amount of mechanics with the hardest content you face in ESO that you claimed its harder.
Im saying this again. I dont want ESO to become WoW. I left WoW because im too old to grind and too old to wipe 120 times on the 5th boss with the 3rd best realm guild. ESO is freedom, i want it to stay as it is.
read the article. please. by the time ESO made it to Beta it was already changed to be more like Skyrim. that is NOT however what it started out as. READ. THE. ARTICLE. it even has screenshots.
moreover. if your rotation as a healer in ESO is only 4 buttons, you are being as what you so derisively called "LFR hero"
last but not least. WoW has hardcore parts, but WoW as a whole is NOT hardcore and has NEVER been hardcore. that's their whole shtick.
Healing springs?
BoL-mutagen?
Balls?
Combat prayer?
Eledrain?
Blockade?
ritual?
Rune?
If you add the 20 sec ritual eledrain rune, i can always add more to my wow rotation like racial and the 2 major CD's my class had.
Teach me the rest please?
But i wont tell you what i was doing as a monk, you can go check youself at warcraft logs Rondakunfu@stormscale pre 7.2.5 there you can see how much healing i do, healing i take. Damage i do damage i take, and what skill causes my damage done and damage taken.
My mythic logs depends or the healing cooldowns the healing officer had made up(according to his desire to rank himself) Check my heroic rankings at that version.
When we talk about how demanding a game is, we dont talk when someone is doing pet battles around kalimdor in WoW or for a guy that does fishing in reapers march. We tend to usually talk about end-game stuff right?
Now check WoW end-game PVE diff. In the bosses ive asked you to, quick look? wowhead then check ESO endgame mechanics.
Then take the 10 best PVP players of ESO and put them at a ranked arena of not much 1700 rating and cry out with the results.
These 3300 R1 gladiators are something i never speak of, lets focus of the 1700 tier.
PvP in wow is even more demanding, you dont have to drain your opponents stamina to kill him or burst him in a single CC, you have to chew up all his defensive CD's land a CC on his healer or both healer and healing/shielding co-dps and land a kill.
While ESO META pvp is like 6 wardens 2 dks 1 stamblade 1 magsorc and 1 magplar running around towers stacking on vigors and focusing 3-4 dawnbreakers in 1 random 500 cp dude thats chasing them around the tower like a mad dog.
1. stuff you listed is already twice as many skills that you originaly mentioned, but there's also depending on situation interupts involved and absolutely making sure that gear buffs like spc/olorime stay up. and you know... ulties. but most importantly, while positioning in WoW is important.. I can cast a heal by selecting/mousovering a specific player and as long as I'm in range, they will get healed. in ESo - positioning and aiming is core part of the gameplay. and healing is not all there is either. unless I'm missing something but i don't think I am.. after years and years and YEARS of certain kind of gameplay.. not only tank threat in WoW was nerfed, but it appears that all the AoE taunts are gone. now I wonder WHY is that.
regardless. end game pve is like 5% of the game. the rest of WoW is deliberately designed to be super casual friendly. always was. this is why lfr exists.
ESO is also in many ways casual friendly, with how forgiving overworld is. but its far far FAR more involved when it comes to builds.
same btw applies to competitive pvp. its a small percentage of the game. most people in WoW OR ESO do not play at high end competitive level. that is BY DESIGN. ZoS is no dummies anymore then blizzard is. they know their competitive players need an occasional bone, but they also know their bread and butter are casuals. its literally how blizzard has made every damn game they have released in probably the last 2 decades - so much more successful. its how they took MMO genre mainstream. by appealing - to CASUALS. to put it in perspective... very few people play basketball on professional level and on professional level its a demanding, challenging game. doesn't change the fact that anyone can pick up a ball and enjoy the heck out of shooting hoops with their friends in a park or backyard. this accessibility is huge part of the appeal
so yeah, when we talk about how demanding the game is - we talk about ALL of the game, not 5% of it.
and all of that arguing aside. ESO hasn't tried to be WoW since that first Alpha iteration. it has served ZoS pretty well, since in general people who just want re-skinned WoW, end up going back to actual WoW soon enough. becasue ESO is NOT WoW, people are more likely to stay becasue it IS something different rather then more of the same. of course.. I do wish that ZoS didn't try to be so different that they are different solely for the sake of being different but.. eh, nothing is ever perfect.Edited by Linaleah on September 6, 2018 8:11PMdirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***2 -
Nicko_Lps✭✭✭✭✭Azuramoonstar wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »ESO can barely stand against the WoW giant. ESO lacks quality of life and has a broken soul. Fun fact - blizzard is currently eyeing up the market of ESO and is developing a direct competitor.
I currently play ESO because it is at least functional and fun on a playable level and the content is obviously a lot different then WoW. However once all caught up on DLCs and other content my playtime will be very little in this game, mostly to stay on top of released content.
ZOS doesn't have the dedicated development power it seems. Or their management has no clue how manage resources. I can't fathom why the game is in the state it is after four years of post release development. FF14 was shamed to death until it was reborn.
I really don't like getting into Game A is better than Game B discussions because these things are personal and subjective. So, let me get personal...
In my case, going into early 2014, I was coming off of WoW Panda and had planned to pre-order Draenor. I was a long time continuous subscriber to WoW, having been introduced to it by my gaming friends. ESO was not on my radar, at all, despite being an Elder Scrolls fan. I knew it was being developed, at some level, but paid absolutely no attention to anything related to the game. No screen shots. No interviews. No trailers or videos. I was unaware that the game was even in beta until late February, when someone gave me a "bring a friend" beta weekend key and told me to try it.
I created an account on February 27 for the upcoming weekend beta, played during the weekend, and pre-ordered the Imperial Edition on March 4. It was a bumpy start, but I am still playing that account and World of Warcraft is long forgotten.
The reality is that World of Warcraft never stood a chance, with me. A couple hours of playing the broken beta of ESO completely eclipsed YEARS of playing World of Warcraft.
So, yeah, tell me how great WoW is compared to ESO.
No everybody can play WoW mate, its very competitive and entirely non noob friendly. Unlike ESO.
Mained in legion a mistweaver monk, 16key rotation + 3 key dps combo for mana recovery. 7.2.5 top monks EU, came to eso and healing here is: healing springs/shards-balls/BoL/Combat prayer. No, not for me.
In WoW pve there are good and bad dpsing/healing/tanking classes. But you need to have all of them. Youre not just taking the OP magblades with you and beat the 13 mechanics? cloudrest +3 endgame PvE.
In WoW pvp there are good and bad classes, there are comps that work good with a bad class along with them and most likely if you find what youre comfortable playing with any class can top pvp ranks. (Ranks in WoW is not alliance war ranks.)
Personally ive quit WoW for ESO simply because its a full time job. Its not a game, im too old for that 24/7 grinding + i have a job + real life. Eso atm is chill mode, i wish i could play WoW but i cant have 2 full time jobs
i played WoW on and off it pretty much is new player friendly, always has been which it is why the member count hit 12mil. A fluke in the industry, WoW isn't all that competitive and around when i was playing it was all about who had the bigger boots in pvp.
Also WoW is and has always been "real life" friendly.
If you farm pets and mounts while you stay in orgrimmar AH yes its RL friendly.
Other than that, i assume you never played wow in a competitive level. If you did, paste me your warcraftlogs page and ill tell you how competitive you where.
Have a nice day.I played WoW for a long time. I started over there in Alpha testing. I literally had a dwarven mage before they were taken out of game and then subsequently brought back. (I was salty after their removal and only played Horde for a long while after).
I enjoyed World of Warcraft. I played it for a very long time. In fact, I played it right through ESO's beta (which I was fortunate enough to play) and up until after the first 30 days of ESO's release.
I am often boggled by the ESO=WoW comparison. They are not the same. Not even close.
ESO has never tried to *be* World of Warcraft any more than literally ANY fantasy MMO has tried to *be* WoW.
World of Warcraft is/was the RPGMMO to which all other MMOs have been held up to for a long time. Most games I've played since have someone popping into their chats to say how much "just like WoW this game is". Here's a secret truth for all y'all: Most games of this nature share a lot of the same things: battlegrounds; similar classes; similar environs; character tropes; etc. So by their very nature <insert MMO here> is going to be "just like Wow" or "trying too hard to be just like ESO" or "lolz, didn't I see this mechanic in Rift?"
I feel like those holding up a game to another game and saying "look at what you did here!" would be much better served by explaining and expressing what it is about *this* game that needs looking at and tweaking rather than just shouting "Look! It's exactly like <insert other MMO here>!" and waving one's arms about pretending that isn't exactly what you expected in the first place.
So, in ESO after-beta with 100x bugs + lags + exploits made you successfully forget wow?
You where the fishing and mount farming in old raids + LFR hero in WoW?
I was a WoW hater, ESO afterbeta made me a wow fanatic.
Also,dont wanna be rude to you or anybody else that loves ESO as much as i do but ESO cant be WoW and will never be.
If ZoS could make ESO like WoW they would, untill then lets fix the 6 months old combat bug of 1 hour + in cyrodiil or the sticky sprint.
Easy steps..One by One.
funny story. early versions of ESO were actualy closer to WoW. they changed it to be more like ES games, practically remade the game from scratch. so no, ZoS woudln't make ESO more like WoW if they could, when they did the exact opposite already. WoW on the other hand, HAS been borrowing from ZoS, what with how they implemented scaling and all as well as loosely warfronts.
If you think Blizzard is borrowing up things from Bethesda i better not answer you at all.
Scaling is not a ZoS invention, ive had games in game gear and game boy that had scaling on. Now if you think that ZoS created it, its fine by me.
ESO's early versions had nothing to do with WoW, ZoS created ESO for ex-skyrim players who only did light attacks, that is the exactly oposite of whats going on in WoW. ESO will always be a noob friendly game therefore a million miles away from becoming WoW.
you haven't seen early versions of ESO have you.... https://www.polygon.com/features/2016/10/14/13285014/elder-scrolls-online-one-tamriel-skyrim-mmo for reference. they actualy had to completely revamp their original alpha. but first iteration of ESO WAS more like WoW, before they changed it to be more like Skyrim, etc, becasue that is what players wanted.
in any case. while scaling is not a new thing, this is what blizzard does and have ALWAYS done. they look at what other games do, not just Bethesda either. they see what works and what doesn't. they see which implementations are more popular. and then they put their own spin and spit and shine on it and add it to WoW. they have been doing it for as long as they existed as a gaming company - and if you deny it, you are being willfully blind. so yeah.. I'm reasonably certain that revival one tamriel revamp brought to ESO had something to do with WoW scaling as it works right now.
P.S. I've noticed you mentioning something about WoW being more hardcore, more abilities or something. i don't know where you last played but other then adding more and more tedious grinds, they have been pruning the HECK out of abilities. I think MoP might have been peak of how many buttons you would use per character. in Vanilla and BC most extra buttons were just spell ranks becasue mana conservation and overhealing. I believe it was Wrath that did away with spell ranks. another ironic thing here is one of the MAIN reasons why WoW was and is as successful as it is it becasue they give you variety of things you could get in other games... but more casual friendly. (other then end game grinds - but I guess it goes with their "easy to learn/ difficult to master" philosophy). and its not just WoW either. Healrthstone is a less complicated Magic the gathering. Overwatch is basicaly team fortress with more colorful character and more accessible mechanics, at least for some of those characters. WoW is primarily Everquest with a bunch of odds and ends thrown in, then made more casual friendly. I will say one thing WoW does unequivocally better then ESO. explains how to play it. ESO can be confusing as heck to a new player. WoW takes all the thought out of how to spec, or get abilities as you level. ESO pretty much throws you into a deep end and tells you to swim.
I dont know how you came to the conclusion that i havent seen early ESO versions, i was playing ESO since beta.
I stoped some months after it came live, played abit in IC then quitted it until a year ago that i started burning my circuits in ESO. ESO was never like WoW, and honestly dont want it to be like WoW. I rather play WoW than a cheap clone of it.
Agree that Blizzard has been cutting down all abilities in game but as ive said: My mistweaver healing rotation was like 16 keys + 3 keys to dps mana recovery. That was a mistweaver fighting for rankings+mythic raiding spot, what does a templar do in the hardest raid of ESO? Does he press more from like 5-6 buttons?
My WoD DK rotation was like 10keys in frost and 12 keys about in Unholy. You can sure play in WoW a BM huntard with like 3 keys? But thats not the representative of the games skill required.
My windwalker rotation was far more than 13 keys, pretty complicated and the most punishing spec in game. Pressing the same key as windwalker you loose 60% damage from your master + 16% from hit combo that you need 8 GDC's to stack up again, but as much as i loved it a good healer with 95%-99% rankings is always most wanted from a good dps.
Also WoW is at least 10x more hardcore than ESO, the reason that i abandoned it ofc. But not when somebody is being a typical LFR hero ofc..When you raid mythic. Did you ever raid in mythic diff in wow? You have any cutting edge? When you reach to a point that you will compete inside warcraftlogs with the whole european crowd playing wow? Yes wow is 10x more hardcore than ESO and at least 10x harder to master your class in it. Magblades are by far the hardest dps and spec/role ingame,i really dont think they have a slight chance to compare with a windwalker or a dumbed down feral druid(since legion) or even worst from a shadow priest.
Im not gonna tell you much, just check mannoroth archimonde kiljaeden blackhand bosses in MYTHIC difficulty and compare the amount of mechanics with the hardest content you face in ESO that you claimed its harder.
Im saying this again. I dont want ESO to become WoW. I left WoW because im too old to grind and too old to wipe 120 times on the 5th boss with the 3rd best realm guild. ESO is freedom, i want it to stay as it is.
read the article. please. by the time ESO made it to Beta it was already changed to be more like Skyrim. that is NOT however what it started out as. READ. THE. ARTICLE. it even has screenshots.
moreover. if your rotation as a healer in ESO is only 4 buttons, you are being as what you so derisively called "LFR hero"
last but not least. WoW has hardcore parts, but WoW as a whole is NOT hardcore and has NEVER been hardcore. that's their whole shtick.
Healing springs?
BoL-mutagen?
Balls?
Combat prayer?
Eledrain?
Blockade?
ritual?
Rune?
If you add the 20 sec ritual eledrain rune, i can always add more to my wow rotation like racial and the 2 major CD's my class had.
Teach me the rest please?
But i wont tell you what i was doing as a monk, you can go check youself at warcraft logs Rondakunfu@stormscale pre 7.2.5 there you can see how much healing i do, healing i take. Damage i do damage i take, and what skill causes my damage done and damage taken.
My mythic logs depends or the healing cooldowns the healing officer had made up(according to his desire to rank himself) Check my heroic rankings at that version.
When we talk about how demanding a game is, we dont talk when someone is doing pet battles around kalimdor in WoW or for a guy that does fishing in reapers march. We tend to usually talk about end-game stuff right?
Now check WoW end-game PVE diff. In the bosses ive asked you to, quick look? wowhead then check ESO endgame mechanics.
Then take the 10 best PVP players of ESO and put them at a ranked arena of not much 1700 rating and cry out with the results.
These 3300 R1 gladiators are something i never speak of, lets focus of the 1700 tier.
PvP in wow is even more demanding, you dont have to drain your opponents stamina to kill him or burst him in a single CC, you have to chew up all his defensive CD's land a CC on his healer or both healer and healing/shielding co-dps and land a kill.
While ESO META pvp is like 6 wardens 2 dks 1 stamblade 1 magsorc and 1 magplar running around towers stacking on vigors and focusing 3-4 dawnbreakers in 1 random 500 cp dude thats chasing them around the tower like a mad dog.
1. stuff you listed is already twice as many skills that you originaly mentioned, but there's also depending on situation interupts involved and absolutely making sure that gear buffs like spc/olorime stay up. and you know... ulties. but most importantly, while positioning in WoW is important.. I can cast a heal by selecting/mousovering a specific player and as long as I'm in range, they will get healed. in ESo - positioning and aiming is core part of the gameplay. and healing is not all there is either. unless I'm missing something but i don't think I am.. after years and years and YEARS of certain kind of gameplay.. not only tank thread was nerfed, but it appears that all the AoE taunts are gone. now I wonder WHY is that.
regardless. end game pve is like 5% of the game. the rest of WoW is deliberately designed to be super casual friendly. always was. this is why lfr exists.
ESO is also in many ways casual friendly, with how forgiving overworld is. but its far far FAR more involved when it comes to builds.
same btw applies to competitive pvp. its a small percentage of the game. most people in WoW OR ESO do not play at high end competitive level. that is BY DESIGN. ZoS is no dummies anymore then blizzard is. they know their competitive players need an occasional bone, but they also know their bread and butter are casuals. its literally how blizzard has made every damn game they have released in probably the last 2 decades - so much more successful. its how they took MMO genre mainstream. by appealing - to CASUALS. to put it in perspective... very few people play basketball on professional level and on professional level its a demanding, challenging game. doesn't change the fact that anyone can pick up a ball and enjoy the heck out of shooting hoops with their friends in a park or backyard. this accessibility is huge part of the appeal
so yeah, when we talk about how demanding the game is - we talk about ALL of the game, not 5% of it.
and all of that arguing aside. ESO hasn't tried to be WoW since that first Alpha iteration. it has served ZoS pretty well, since in general people who just want re-skinned WoW, end up going back to actual WoW soon enough. becasue ESO is NOT WoW, people are more likely to stay becasue it IS something different rather then more of the same. of course.. I do wish that ZoS didn't try to be so different that they are different solely for the sake of being different but.. eh, nothing is ever perfect.
I said 5, added 3 more that already told you its 20sec buffs/debuffs.
If i add those stuff in wow i efficiently reach around 20+ keys, dont even remember you can check my logs for further information im too bored to do so.
MouseOver is what a pala shaman or druid would do, priests and monks demand to be next to their protect-heal targets to efficiently AoE heal them. NOT auto heals to whoever needs it the most. by switching targets. by keeping target and by having focus target and target of target.
Healing in eso is a joke.
Tanking in eso is an even bigger joke.
So as you and the post said, ESO is transformed to an EX-skyrim wanna be MMO player just to make things easy. What ive said all along.
So you think the 5% of ESO players manages to do end game content ? Really ?
Where did that statistic came from, because if youre right ESO is like 60% more hard to play than wow since 8% of total wow population mange to get their cutting edge/gladiator (google is your friend)
Eso was,is and will remain an MMO introduction for fresh players(ex skyrim LA players) in MMO community.0 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Azuramoonstar wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »ESO can barely stand against the WoW giant. ESO lacks quality of life and has a broken soul. Fun fact - blizzard is currently eyeing up the market of ESO and is developing a direct competitor.
I currently play ESO because it is at least functional and fun on a playable level and the content is obviously a lot different then WoW. However once all caught up on DLCs and other content my playtime will be very little in this game, mostly to stay on top of released content.
ZOS doesn't have the dedicated development power it seems. Or their management has no clue how manage resources. I can't fathom why the game is in the state it is after four years of post release development. FF14 was shamed to death until it was reborn.
I really don't like getting into Game A is better than Game B discussions because these things are personal and subjective. So, let me get personal...
In my case, going into early 2014, I was coming off of WoW Panda and had planned to pre-order Draenor. I was a long time continuous subscriber to WoW, having been introduced to it by my gaming friends. ESO was not on my radar, at all, despite being an Elder Scrolls fan. I knew it was being developed, at some level, but paid absolutely no attention to anything related to the game. No screen shots. No interviews. No trailers or videos. I was unaware that the game was even in beta until late February, when someone gave me a "bring a friend" beta weekend key and told me to try it.
I created an account on February 27 for the upcoming weekend beta, played during the weekend, and pre-ordered the Imperial Edition on March 4. It was a bumpy start, but I am still playing that account and World of Warcraft is long forgotten.
The reality is that World of Warcraft never stood a chance, with me. A couple hours of playing the broken beta of ESO completely eclipsed YEARS of playing World of Warcraft.
So, yeah, tell me how great WoW is compared to ESO.
No everybody can play WoW mate, its very competitive and entirely non noob friendly. Unlike ESO.
Mained in legion a mistweaver monk, 16key rotation + 3 key dps combo for mana recovery. 7.2.5 top monks EU, came to eso and healing here is: healing springs/shards-balls/BoL/Combat prayer. No, not for me.
In WoW pve there are good and bad dpsing/healing/tanking classes. But you need to have all of them. Youre not just taking the OP magblades with you and beat the 13 mechanics? cloudrest +3 endgame PvE.
In WoW pvp there are good and bad classes, there are comps that work good with a bad class along with them and most likely if you find what youre comfortable playing with any class can top pvp ranks. (Ranks in WoW is not alliance war ranks.)
Personally ive quit WoW for ESO simply because its a full time job. Its not a game, im too old for that 24/7 grinding + i have a job + real life. Eso atm is chill mode, i wish i could play WoW but i cant have 2 full time jobs
i played WoW on and off it pretty much is new player friendly, always has been which it is why the member count hit 12mil. A fluke in the industry, WoW isn't all that competitive and around when i was playing it was all about who had the bigger boots in pvp.
Also WoW is and has always been "real life" friendly.
If you farm pets and mounts while you stay in orgrimmar AH yes its RL friendly.
Other than that, i assume you never played wow in a competitive level. If you did, paste me your warcraftlogs page and ill tell you how competitive you where.
Have a nice day.I played WoW for a long time. I started over there in Alpha testing. I literally had a dwarven mage before they were taken out of game and then subsequently brought back. (I was salty after their removal and only played Horde for a long while after).
I enjoyed World of Warcraft. I played it for a very long time. In fact, I played it right through ESO's beta (which I was fortunate enough to play) and up until after the first 30 days of ESO's release.
I am often boggled by the ESO=WoW comparison. They are not the same. Not even close.
ESO has never tried to *be* World of Warcraft any more than literally ANY fantasy MMO has tried to *be* WoW.
World of Warcraft is/was the RPGMMO to which all other MMOs have been held up to for a long time. Most games I've played since have someone popping into their chats to say how much "just like WoW this game is". Here's a secret truth for all y'all: Most games of this nature share a lot of the same things: battlegrounds; similar classes; similar environs; character tropes; etc. So by their very nature <insert MMO here> is going to be "just like Wow" or "trying too hard to be just like ESO" or "lolz, didn't I see this mechanic in Rift?"
I feel like those holding up a game to another game and saying "look at what you did here!" would be much better served by explaining and expressing what it is about *this* game that needs looking at and tweaking rather than just shouting "Look! It's exactly like <insert other MMO here>!" and waving one's arms about pretending that isn't exactly what you expected in the first place.
So, in ESO after-beta with 100x bugs + lags + exploits made you successfully forget wow?
You where the fishing and mount farming in old raids + LFR hero in WoW?
I was a WoW hater, ESO afterbeta made me a wow fanatic.
Also,dont wanna be rude to you or anybody else that loves ESO as much as i do but ESO cant be WoW and will never be.
If ZoS could make ESO like WoW they would, untill then lets fix the 6 months old combat bug of 1 hour + in cyrodiil or the sticky sprint.
Easy steps..One by One.
funny story. early versions of ESO were actualy closer to WoW. they changed it to be more like ES games, practically remade the game from scratch. so no, ZoS woudln't make ESO more like WoW if they could, when they did the exact opposite already. WoW on the other hand, HAS been borrowing from ZoS, what with how they implemented scaling and all as well as loosely warfronts.
If you think Blizzard is borrowing up things from Bethesda i better not answer you at all.
Scaling is not a ZoS invention, ive had games in game gear and game boy that had scaling on. Now if you think that ZoS created it, its fine by me.
ESO's early versions had nothing to do with WoW, ZoS created ESO for ex-skyrim players who only did light attacks, that is the exactly oposite of whats going on in WoW. ESO will always be a noob friendly game therefore a million miles away from becoming WoW.
you haven't seen early versions of ESO have you.... https://www.polygon.com/features/2016/10/14/13285014/elder-scrolls-online-one-tamriel-skyrim-mmo for reference. they actualy had to completely revamp their original alpha. but first iteration of ESO WAS more like WoW, before they changed it to be more like Skyrim, etc, becasue that is what players wanted.
in any case. while scaling is not a new thing, this is what blizzard does and have ALWAYS done. they look at what other games do, not just Bethesda either. they see what works and what doesn't. they see which implementations are more popular. and then they put their own spin and spit and shine on it and add it to WoW. they have been doing it for as long as they existed as a gaming company - and if you deny it, you are being willfully blind. so yeah.. I'm reasonably certain that revival one tamriel revamp brought to ESO had something to do with WoW scaling as it works right now.
P.S. I've noticed you mentioning something about WoW being more hardcore, more abilities or something. i don't know where you last played but other then adding more and more tedious grinds, they have been pruning the HECK out of abilities. I think MoP might have been peak of how many buttons you would use per character. in Vanilla and BC most extra buttons were just spell ranks becasue mana conservation and overhealing. I believe it was Wrath that did away with spell ranks. another ironic thing here is one of the MAIN reasons why WoW was and is as successful as it is it becasue they give you variety of things you could get in other games... but more casual friendly. (other then end game grinds - but I guess it goes with their "easy to learn/ difficult to master" philosophy). and its not just WoW either. Healrthstone is a less complicated Magic the gathering. Overwatch is basicaly team fortress with more colorful character and more accessible mechanics, at least for some of those characters. WoW is primarily Everquest with a bunch of odds and ends thrown in, then made more casual friendly. I will say one thing WoW does unequivocally better then ESO. explains how to play it. ESO can be confusing as heck to a new player. WoW takes all the thought out of how to spec, or get abilities as you level. ESO pretty much throws you into a deep end and tells you to swim.
I dont know how you came to the conclusion that i havent seen early ESO versions, i was playing ESO since beta.
I stoped some months after it came live, played abit in IC then quitted it until a year ago that i started burning my circuits in ESO. ESO was never like WoW, and honestly dont want it to be like WoW. I rather play WoW than a cheap clone of it.
Agree that Blizzard has been cutting down all abilities in game but as ive said: My mistweaver healing rotation was like 16 keys + 3 keys to dps mana recovery. That was a mistweaver fighting for rankings+mythic raiding spot, what does a templar do in the hardest raid of ESO? Does he press more from like 5-6 buttons?
My WoD DK rotation was like 10keys in frost and 12 keys about in Unholy. You can sure play in WoW a BM huntard with like 3 keys? But thats not the representative of the games skill required.
My windwalker rotation was far more than 13 keys, pretty complicated and the most punishing spec in game. Pressing the same key as windwalker you loose 60% damage from your master + 16% from hit combo that you need 8 GDC's to stack up again, but as much as i loved it a good healer with 95%-99% rankings is always most wanted from a good dps.
Also WoW is at least 10x more hardcore than ESO, the reason that i abandoned it ofc. But not when somebody is being a typical LFR hero ofc..When you raid mythic. Did you ever raid in mythic diff in wow? You have any cutting edge? When you reach to a point that you will compete inside warcraftlogs with the whole european crowd playing wow? Yes wow is 10x more hardcore than ESO and at least 10x harder to master your class in it. Magblades are by far the hardest dps and spec/role ingame,i really dont think they have a slight chance to compare with a windwalker or a dumbed down feral druid(since legion) or even worst from a shadow priest.
Im not gonna tell you much, just check mannoroth archimonde kiljaeden blackhand bosses in MYTHIC difficulty and compare the amount of mechanics with the hardest content you face in ESO that you claimed its harder.
Im saying this again. I dont want ESO to become WoW. I left WoW because im too old to grind and too old to wipe 120 times on the 5th boss with the 3rd best realm guild. ESO is freedom, i want it to stay as it is.
read the article. please. by the time ESO made it to Beta it was already changed to be more like Skyrim. that is NOT however what it started out as. READ. THE. ARTICLE. it even has screenshots.
moreover. if your rotation as a healer in ESO is only 4 buttons, you are being as what you so derisively called "LFR hero"
last but not least. WoW has hardcore parts, but WoW as a whole is NOT hardcore and has NEVER been hardcore. that's their whole shtick.
Healing springs?
BoL-mutagen?
Balls?
Combat prayer?
Eledrain?
Blockade?
ritual?
Rune?
If you add the 20 sec ritual eledrain rune, i can always add more to my wow rotation like racial and the 2 major CD's my class had.
Teach me the rest please?
But i wont tell you what i was doing as a monk, you can go check youself at warcraft logs Rondakunfu@stormscale pre 7.2.5 there you can see how much healing i do, healing i take. Damage i do damage i take, and what skill causes my damage done and damage taken.
My mythic logs depends or the healing cooldowns the healing officer had made up(according to his desire to rank himself) Check my heroic rankings at that version.
When we talk about how demanding a game is, we dont talk when someone is doing pet battles around kalimdor in WoW or for a guy that does fishing in reapers march. We tend to usually talk about end-game stuff right?
Now check WoW end-game PVE diff. In the bosses ive asked you to, quick look? wowhead then check ESO endgame mechanics.
Then take the 10 best PVP players of ESO and put them at a ranked arena of not much 1700 rating and cry out with the results.
These 3300 R1 gladiators are something i never speak of, lets focus of the 1700 tier.
PvP in wow is even more demanding, you dont have to drain your opponents stamina to kill him or burst him in a single CC, you have to chew up all his defensive CD's land a CC on his healer or both healer and healing/shielding co-dps and land a kill.
While ESO META pvp is like 6 wardens 2 dks 1 stamblade 1 magsorc and 1 magplar running around towers stacking on vigors and focusing 3-4 dawnbreakers in 1 random 500 cp dude thats chasing them around the tower like a mad dog.
1. stuff you listed is already twice as many skills that you originaly mentioned, but there's also depending on situation interupts involved and absolutely making sure that gear buffs like spc/olorime stay up. and you know... ulties. but most importantly, while positioning in WoW is important.. I can cast a heal by selecting/mousovering a specific player and as long as I'm in range, they will get healed. in ESo - positioning and aiming is core part of the gameplay. and healing is not all there is either. unless I'm missing something but i don't think I am.. after years and years and YEARS of certain kind of gameplay.. not only tank thread was nerfed, but it appears that all the AoE taunts are gone. now I wonder WHY is that.
regardless. end game pve is like 5% of the game. the rest of WoW is deliberately designed to be super casual friendly. always was. this is why lfr exists.
ESO is also in many ways casual friendly, with how forgiving overworld is. but its far far FAR more involved when it comes to builds.
same btw applies to competitive pvp. its a small percentage of the game. most people in WoW OR ESO do not play at high end competitive level. that is BY DESIGN. ZoS is no dummies anymore then blizzard is. they know their competitive players need an occasional bone, but they also know their bread and butter are casuals. its literally how blizzard has made every damn game they have released in probably the last 2 decades - so much more successful. its how they took MMO genre mainstream. by appealing - to CASUALS. to put it in perspective... very few people play basketball on professional level and on professional level its a demanding, challenging game. doesn't change the fact that anyone can pick up a ball and enjoy the heck out of shooting hoops with their friends in a park or backyard. this accessibility is huge part of the appeal
so yeah, when we talk about how demanding the game is - we talk about ALL of the game, not 5% of it.
and all of that arguing aside. ESO hasn't tried to be WoW since that first Alpha iteration. it has served ZoS pretty well, since in general people who just want re-skinned WoW, end up going back to actual WoW soon enough. becasue ESO is NOT WoW, people are more likely to stay becasue it IS something different rather then more of the same. of course.. I do wish that ZoS didn't try to be so different that they are different solely for the sake of being different but.. eh, nothing is ever perfect.
I said 5, added 3 more that already told you its 20sec buffs/debuffs.
If i add those stuff in wow i efficiently reach around 20+ keys, dont even remember you can check my logs for further information im too bored to do so.
MouseOver is what a pala shaman or druid would do, priests and monks demand to be next to their protect-heal targets to efficiently AoE heal them. NOT auto heals to whoever needs it the most. by switching targets. by keeping target and by having focus target and target of target.
Healing in eso is a joke.
Tanking in eso is an even bigger joke.
So as you and the post said, ESO is transformed to an EX-skyrim wanna be MMO player just to make things easy. What ive said all along.
So you think the 5% of ESO players manages to do end game content ? Really ?
Where did that statistic came from, because if youre right ESO is like 60% more hard to play than wow since 8% of total wow population mange to get their cutting edge/gladiator (google is your friend)
Eso was,is and will remain an MMO introduction for fresh players(ex skyrim LA players) in MMO community.
sigh. 5% is the number Blizzard themselves stated when they were talking about adding lfr and WHY they did that.
moreover. I love how you keep trying to claim that WoW is not a casual friendly introductory MMO when Blizzard themselves stated they designed it to be very simply and easy to get into. I mean.. when was the last time you started the character in WoW? it all but chews your food for you, and that's on PURPOSE. ESO could actualy learn from that, becasue even with level up adviser, understanding how to spec and play your character in ESO outside of light attacking random mobs requires actual studying. I love ESO to pieces, but dear god it can be counter-intuitive, EVEN if you come from Skyrim.
as post above says VERY correctly. WoW is incredibly streamlined. ESO is all about flexibility, especially if you are not locking yourself into META in order to do vet HM stuff.
BOTH are very casual friendly. you can perfectly happily play either of the games without EVER touching end game, becasue it is NOT a requirement to enjoy either of the games, and there is plenty of content being added constantly in both games. for CASUALS. its one of the few ways that WoW and ESO ARE similar. claiming that WoW is primarily a hardcore game is just... hilarious.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***2 -
Nicko_Lps✭✭✭✭✭Azuramoonstar wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »ESO can barely stand against the WoW giant. ESO lacks quality of life and has a broken soul. Fun fact - blizzard is currently eyeing up the market of ESO and is developing a direct competitor.
I currently play ESO because it is at least functional and fun on a playable level and the content is obviously a lot different then WoW. However once all caught up on DLCs and other content my playtime will be very little in this game, mostly to stay on top of released content.
ZOS doesn't have the dedicated development power it seems. Or their management has no clue how manage resources. I can't fathom why the game is in the state it is after four years of post release development. FF14 was shamed to death until it was reborn.
I really don't like getting into Game A is better than Game B discussions because these things are personal and subjective. So, let me get personal...
In my case, going into early 2014, I was coming off of WoW Panda and had planned to pre-order Draenor. I was a long time continuous subscriber to WoW, having been introduced to it by my gaming friends. ESO was not on my radar, at all, despite being an Elder Scrolls fan. I knew it was being developed, at some level, but paid absolutely no attention to anything related to the game. No screen shots. No interviews. No trailers or videos. I was unaware that the game was even in beta until late February, when someone gave me a "bring a friend" beta weekend key and told me to try it.
I created an account on February 27 for the upcoming weekend beta, played during the weekend, and pre-ordered the Imperial Edition on March 4. It was a bumpy start, but I am still playing that account and World of Warcraft is long forgotten.
The reality is that World of Warcraft never stood a chance, with me. A couple hours of playing the broken beta of ESO completely eclipsed YEARS of playing World of Warcraft.
So, yeah, tell me how great WoW is compared to ESO.
No everybody can play WoW mate, its very competitive and entirely non noob friendly. Unlike ESO.
Mained in legion a mistweaver monk, 16key rotation + 3 key dps combo for mana recovery. 7.2.5 top monks EU, came to eso and healing here is: healing springs/shards-balls/BoL/Combat prayer. No, not for me.
In WoW pve there are good and bad dpsing/healing/tanking classes. But you need to have all of them. Youre not just taking the OP magblades with you and beat the 13 mechanics? cloudrest +3 endgame PvE.
In WoW pvp there are good and bad classes, there are comps that work good with a bad class along with them and most likely if you find what youre comfortable playing with any class can top pvp ranks. (Ranks in WoW is not alliance war ranks.)
Personally ive quit WoW for ESO simply because its a full time job. Its not a game, im too old for that 24/7 grinding + i have a job + real life. Eso atm is chill mode, i wish i could play WoW but i cant have 2 full time jobs
i played WoW on and off it pretty much is new player friendly, always has been which it is why the member count hit 12mil. A fluke in the industry, WoW isn't all that competitive and around when i was playing it was all about who had the bigger boots in pvp.
Also WoW is and has always been "real life" friendly.
If you farm pets and mounts while you stay in orgrimmar AH yes its RL friendly.
Other than that, i assume you never played wow in a competitive level. If you did, paste me your warcraftlogs page and ill tell you how competitive you where.
Have a nice day.I played WoW for a long time. I started over there in Alpha testing. I literally had a dwarven mage before they were taken out of game and then subsequently brought back. (I was salty after their removal and only played Horde for a long while after).
I enjoyed World of Warcraft. I played it for a very long time. In fact, I played it right through ESO's beta (which I was fortunate enough to play) and up until after the first 30 days of ESO's release.
I am often boggled by the ESO=WoW comparison. They are not the same. Not even close.
ESO has never tried to *be* World of Warcraft any more than literally ANY fantasy MMO has tried to *be* WoW.
World of Warcraft is/was the RPGMMO to which all other MMOs have been held up to for a long time. Most games I've played since have someone popping into their chats to say how much "just like WoW this game is". Here's a secret truth for all y'all: Most games of this nature share a lot of the same things: battlegrounds; similar classes; similar environs; character tropes; etc. So by their very nature <insert MMO here> is going to be "just like Wow" or "trying too hard to be just like ESO" or "lolz, didn't I see this mechanic in Rift?"
I feel like those holding up a game to another game and saying "look at what you did here!" would be much better served by explaining and expressing what it is about *this* game that needs looking at and tweaking rather than just shouting "Look! It's exactly like <insert other MMO here>!" and waving one's arms about pretending that isn't exactly what you expected in the first place.
So, in ESO after-beta with 100x bugs + lags + exploits made you successfully forget wow?
You where the fishing and mount farming in old raids + LFR hero in WoW?
I was a WoW hater, ESO afterbeta made me a wow fanatic.
Also,dont wanna be rude to you or anybody else that loves ESO as much as i do but ESO cant be WoW and will never be.
If ZoS could make ESO like WoW they would, untill then lets fix the 6 months old combat bug of 1 hour + in cyrodiil or the sticky sprint.
Easy steps..One by One.
funny story. early versions of ESO were actualy closer to WoW. they changed it to be more like ES games, practically remade the game from scratch. so no, ZoS woudln't make ESO more like WoW if they could, when they did the exact opposite already. WoW on the other hand, HAS been borrowing from ZoS, what with how they implemented scaling and all as well as loosely warfronts.
If you think Blizzard is borrowing up things from Bethesda i better not answer you at all.
Scaling is not a ZoS invention, ive had games in game gear and game boy that had scaling on. Now if you think that ZoS created it, its fine by me.
ESO's early versions had nothing to do with WoW, ZoS created ESO for ex-skyrim players who only did light attacks, that is the exactly oposite of whats going on in WoW. ESO will always be a noob friendly game therefore a million miles away from becoming WoW.
you haven't seen early versions of ESO have you.... https://www.polygon.com/features/2016/10/14/13285014/elder-scrolls-online-one-tamriel-skyrim-mmo for reference. they actualy had to completely revamp their original alpha. but first iteration of ESO WAS more like WoW, before they changed it to be more like Skyrim, etc, becasue that is what players wanted.
in any case. while scaling is not a new thing, this is what blizzard does and have ALWAYS done. they look at what other games do, not just Bethesda either. they see what works and what doesn't. they see which implementations are more popular. and then they put their own spin and spit and shine on it and add it to WoW. they have been doing it for as long as they existed as a gaming company - and if you deny it, you are being willfully blind. so yeah.. I'm reasonably certain that revival one tamriel revamp brought to ESO had something to do with WoW scaling as it works right now.
P.S. I've noticed you mentioning something about WoW being more hardcore, more abilities or something. i don't know where you last played but other then adding more and more tedious grinds, they have been pruning the HECK out of abilities. I think MoP might have been peak of how many buttons you would use per character. in Vanilla and BC most extra buttons were just spell ranks becasue mana conservation and overhealing. I believe it was Wrath that did away with spell ranks. another ironic thing here is one of the MAIN reasons why WoW was and is as successful as it is it becasue they give you variety of things you could get in other games... but more casual friendly. (other then end game grinds - but I guess it goes with their "easy to learn/ difficult to master" philosophy). and its not just WoW either. Healrthstone is a less complicated Magic the gathering. Overwatch is basicaly team fortress with more colorful character and more accessible mechanics, at least for some of those characters. WoW is primarily Everquest with a bunch of odds and ends thrown in, then made more casual friendly. I will say one thing WoW does unequivocally better then ESO. explains how to play it. ESO can be confusing as heck to a new player. WoW takes all the thought out of how to spec, or get abilities as you level. ESO pretty much throws you into a deep end and tells you to swim.
I dont know how you came to the conclusion that i havent seen early ESO versions, i was playing ESO since beta.
I stoped some months after it came live, played abit in IC then quitted it until a year ago that i started burning my circuits in ESO. ESO was never like WoW, and honestly dont want it to be like WoW. I rather play WoW than a cheap clone of it.
Agree that Blizzard has been cutting down all abilities in game but as ive said: My mistweaver healing rotation was like 16 keys + 3 keys to dps mana recovery. That was a mistweaver fighting for rankings+mythic raiding spot, what does a templar do in the hardest raid of ESO? Does he press more from like 5-6 buttons?
My WoD DK rotation was like 10keys in frost and 12 keys about in Unholy. You can sure play in WoW a BM huntard with like 3 keys? But thats not the representative of the games skill required.
My windwalker rotation was far more than 13 keys, pretty complicated and the most punishing spec in game. Pressing the same key as windwalker you loose 60% damage from your master + 16% from hit combo that you need 8 GDC's to stack up again, but as much as i loved it a good healer with 95%-99% rankings is always most wanted from a good dps.
Also WoW is at least 10x more hardcore than ESO, the reason that i abandoned it ofc. But not when somebody is being a typical LFR hero ofc..When you raid mythic. Did you ever raid in mythic diff in wow? You have any cutting edge? When you reach to a point that you will compete inside warcraftlogs with the whole european crowd playing wow? Yes wow is 10x more hardcore than ESO and at least 10x harder to master your class in it. Magblades are by far the hardest dps and spec/role ingame,i really dont think they have a slight chance to compare with a windwalker or a dumbed down feral druid(since legion) or even worst from a shadow priest.
Im not gonna tell you much, just check mannoroth archimonde kiljaeden blackhand bosses in MYTHIC difficulty and compare the amount of mechanics with the hardest content you face in ESO that you claimed its harder.
Im saying this again. I dont want ESO to become WoW. I left WoW because im too old to grind and too old to wipe 120 times on the 5th boss with the 3rd best realm guild. ESO is freedom, i want it to stay as it is.
read the article. please. by the time ESO made it to Beta it was already changed to be more like Skyrim. that is NOT however what it started out as. READ. THE. ARTICLE. it even has screenshots.
moreover. if your rotation as a healer in ESO is only 4 buttons, you are being as what you so derisively called "LFR hero"
last but not least. WoW has hardcore parts, but WoW as a whole is NOT hardcore and has NEVER been hardcore. that's their whole shtick.
Healing springs?
BoL-mutagen?
Balls?
Combat prayer?
Eledrain?
Blockade?
ritual?
Rune?
If you add the 20 sec ritual eledrain rune, i can always add more to my wow rotation like racial and the 2 major CD's my class had.
Teach me the rest please?
But i wont tell you what i was doing as a monk, you can go check youself at warcraft logs Rondakunfu@stormscale pre 7.2.5 there you can see how much healing i do, healing i take. Damage i do damage i take, and what skill causes my damage done and damage taken.
My mythic logs depends or the healing cooldowns the healing officer had made up(according to his desire to rank himself) Check my heroic rankings at that version.
When we talk about how demanding a game is, we dont talk when someone is doing pet battles around kalimdor in WoW or for a guy that does fishing in reapers march. We tend to usually talk about end-game stuff right?
Now check WoW end-game PVE diff. In the bosses ive asked you to, quick look? wowhead then check ESO endgame mechanics.
Then take the 10 best PVP players of ESO and put them at a ranked arena of not much 1700 rating and cry out with the results.
These 3300 R1 gladiators are something i never speak of, lets focus of the 1700 tier.
PvP in wow is even more demanding, you dont have to drain your opponents stamina to kill him or burst him in a single CC, you have to chew up all his defensive CD's land a CC on his healer or both healer and healing/shielding co-dps and land a kill.
While ESO META pvp is like 6 wardens 2 dks 1 stamblade 1 magsorc and 1 magplar running around towers stacking on vigors and focusing 3-4 dawnbreakers in 1 random 500 cp dude thats chasing them around the tower like a mad dog.
1. stuff you listed is already twice as many skills that you originaly mentioned, but there's also depending on situation interupts involved and absolutely making sure that gear buffs like spc/olorime stay up. and you know... ulties. but most importantly, while positioning in WoW is important.. I can cast a heal by selecting/mousovering a specific player and as long as I'm in range, they will get healed. in ESo - positioning and aiming is core part of the gameplay. and healing is not all there is either. unless I'm missing something but i don't think I am.. after years and years and YEARS of certain kind of gameplay.. not only tank thread was nerfed, but it appears that all the AoE taunts are gone. now I wonder WHY is that.
regardless. end game pve is like 5% of the game. the rest of WoW is deliberately designed to be super casual friendly. always was. this is why lfr exists.
ESO is also in many ways casual friendly, with how forgiving overworld is. but its far far FAR more involved when it comes to builds.
same btw applies to competitive pvp. its a small percentage of the game. most people in WoW OR ESO do not play at high end competitive level. that is BY DESIGN. ZoS is no dummies anymore then blizzard is. they know their competitive players need an occasional bone, but they also know their bread and butter are casuals. its literally how blizzard has made every damn game they have released in probably the last 2 decades - so much more successful. its how they took MMO genre mainstream. by appealing - to CASUALS. to put it in perspective... very few people play basketball on professional level and on professional level its a demanding, challenging game. doesn't change the fact that anyone can pick up a ball and enjoy the heck out of shooting hoops with their friends in a park or backyard. this accessibility is huge part of the appeal
so yeah, when we talk about how demanding the game is - we talk about ALL of the game, not 5% of it.
and all of that arguing aside. ESO hasn't tried to be WoW since that first Alpha iteration. it has served ZoS pretty well, since in general people who just want re-skinned WoW, end up going back to actual WoW soon enough. becasue ESO is NOT WoW, people are more likely to stay becasue it IS something different rather then more of the same. of course.. I do wish that ZoS didn't try to be so different that they are different solely for the sake of being different but.. eh, nothing is ever perfect.
I said 5, added 3 more that already told you its 20sec buffs/debuffs.
If i add those stuff in wow i efficiently reach around 20+ keys, dont even remember you can check my logs for further information im too bored to do so.
MouseOver is what a pala shaman or druid would do, priests and monks demand to be next to their protect-heal targets to efficiently AoE heal them. NOT auto heals to whoever needs it the most. by switching targets. by keeping target and by having focus target and target of target.
Healing in eso is a joke.
Tanking in eso is an even bigger joke.
So as you and the post said, ESO is transformed to an EX-skyrim wanna be MMO player just to make things easy. What ive said all along.
So you think the 5% of ESO players manages to do end game content ? Really ?
Where did that statistic came from, because if youre right ESO is like 60% more hard to play than wow since 8% of total wow population mange to get their cutting edge/gladiator (google is your friend)
Eso was,is and will remain an MMO introduction for fresh players(ex skyrim LA players) in MMO community.
sigh. 5% is the number Blizzard themselves stated when they were talking about adding lfr and WHY they did that.
moreover. I love how you keep trying to claim that WoW is not a casual friendly introductory MMO when Blizzard themselves stated they designed it to be very simply and easy to get into. I mean.. when was the last time you started the character in WoW? it all but chews your food for you, and that's on PURPOSE. ESO could actualy learn from that, becasue even with level up adviser, understanding how to spec and play your character in ESO outside of light attacking random mobs requires actual studying. I love ESO to pieces, but dear god it can be counter-intuitive, EVEN if you come from Skyrim.
as post above says VERY correctly. WoW is incredibly streamlined. ESO is all about flexibility, especially if you are not locking yourself into META in order to do vet HM stuff.
BOTH are very casual friendly. you can perfectly happily play either of the games without EVER touching end game, becasue it is NOT a requirement to enjoy either of the games, and there is plenty of content being added constantly in both games. for CASUALS. its one of the few ways that WoW and ESO ARE similar. claiming that WoW is primarily a hardcore game is just... hilarious.
I have to log in since the Tomb of sargeras raid, i was mythic raiding and force quit because i had no such time to spend anymore.
Nobody said WoW is not casual friendly, if it was not would not have had 14.6m sales during legion. Not all wanna be or can be top tier players. Actually wow has so much things to do that can be MORE noob friendly from ESO. But WoW endgame PVP and PVE was, is and will remain at least 10x harder than what you get here because ESO was, IS and will forever remain the MMO bridge for EX-skyrim LA spammers that became force pulse spammers, reach spammers, whip spammers, sup attack spammers bla bla bla bla Game dps is based on spamables and AoE dots..
0 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Azuramoonstar wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »ESO can barely stand against the WoW giant. ESO lacks quality of life and has a broken soul. Fun fact - blizzard is currently eyeing up the market of ESO and is developing a direct competitor.
I currently play ESO because it is at least functional and fun on a playable level and the content is obviously a lot different then WoW. However once all caught up on DLCs and other content my playtime will be very little in this game, mostly to stay on top of released content.
ZOS doesn't have the dedicated development power it seems. Or their management has no clue how manage resources. I can't fathom why the game is in the state it is after four years of post release development. FF14 was shamed to death until it was reborn.
I really don't like getting into Game A is better than Game B discussions because these things are personal and subjective. So, let me get personal...
In my case, going into early 2014, I was coming off of WoW Panda and had planned to pre-order Draenor. I was a long time continuous subscriber to WoW, having been introduced to it by my gaming friends. ESO was not on my radar, at all, despite being an Elder Scrolls fan. I knew it was being developed, at some level, but paid absolutely no attention to anything related to the game. No screen shots. No interviews. No trailers or videos. I was unaware that the game was even in beta until late February, when someone gave me a "bring a friend" beta weekend key and told me to try it.
I created an account on February 27 for the upcoming weekend beta, played during the weekend, and pre-ordered the Imperial Edition on March 4. It was a bumpy start, but I am still playing that account and World of Warcraft is long forgotten.
The reality is that World of Warcraft never stood a chance, with me. A couple hours of playing the broken beta of ESO completely eclipsed YEARS of playing World of Warcraft.
So, yeah, tell me how great WoW is compared to ESO.
No everybody can play WoW mate, its very competitive and entirely non noob friendly. Unlike ESO.
Mained in legion a mistweaver monk, 16key rotation + 3 key dps combo for mana recovery. 7.2.5 top monks EU, came to eso and healing here is: healing springs/shards-balls/BoL/Combat prayer. No, not for me.
In WoW pve there are good and bad dpsing/healing/tanking classes. But you need to have all of them. Youre not just taking the OP magblades with you and beat the 13 mechanics? cloudrest +3 endgame PvE.
In WoW pvp there are good and bad classes, there are comps that work good with a bad class along with them and most likely if you find what youre comfortable playing with any class can top pvp ranks. (Ranks in WoW is not alliance war ranks.)
Personally ive quit WoW for ESO simply because its a full time job. Its not a game, im too old for that 24/7 grinding + i have a job + real life. Eso atm is chill mode, i wish i could play WoW but i cant have 2 full time jobs
i played WoW on and off it pretty much is new player friendly, always has been which it is why the member count hit 12mil. A fluke in the industry, WoW isn't all that competitive and around when i was playing it was all about who had the bigger boots in pvp.
Also WoW is and has always been "real life" friendly.
If you farm pets and mounts while you stay in orgrimmar AH yes its RL friendly.
Other than that, i assume you never played wow in a competitive level. If you did, paste me your warcraftlogs page and ill tell you how competitive you where.
Have a nice day.I played WoW for a long time. I started over there in Alpha testing. I literally had a dwarven mage before they were taken out of game and then subsequently brought back. (I was salty after their removal and only played Horde for a long while after).
I enjoyed World of Warcraft. I played it for a very long time. In fact, I played it right through ESO's beta (which I was fortunate enough to play) and up until after the first 30 days of ESO's release.
I am often boggled by the ESO=WoW comparison. They are not the same. Not even close.
ESO has never tried to *be* World of Warcraft any more than literally ANY fantasy MMO has tried to *be* WoW.
World of Warcraft is/was the RPGMMO to which all other MMOs have been held up to for a long time. Most games I've played since have someone popping into their chats to say how much "just like WoW this game is". Here's a secret truth for all y'all: Most games of this nature share a lot of the same things: battlegrounds; similar classes; similar environs; character tropes; etc. So by their very nature <insert MMO here> is going to be "just like Wow" or "trying too hard to be just like ESO" or "lolz, didn't I see this mechanic in Rift?"
I feel like those holding up a game to another game and saying "look at what you did here!" would be much better served by explaining and expressing what it is about *this* game that needs looking at and tweaking rather than just shouting "Look! It's exactly like <insert other MMO here>!" and waving one's arms about pretending that isn't exactly what you expected in the first place.
So, in ESO after-beta with 100x bugs + lags + exploits made you successfully forget wow?
You where the fishing and mount farming in old raids + LFR hero in WoW?
I was a WoW hater, ESO afterbeta made me a wow fanatic.
Also,dont wanna be rude to you or anybody else that loves ESO as much as i do but ESO cant be WoW and will never be.
If ZoS could make ESO like WoW they would, untill then lets fix the 6 months old combat bug of 1 hour + in cyrodiil or the sticky sprint.
Easy steps..One by One.
funny story. early versions of ESO were actualy closer to WoW. they changed it to be more like ES games, practically remade the game from scratch. so no, ZoS woudln't make ESO more like WoW if they could, when they did the exact opposite already. WoW on the other hand, HAS been borrowing from ZoS, what with how they implemented scaling and all as well as loosely warfronts.
If you think Blizzard is borrowing up things from Bethesda i better not answer you at all.
Scaling is not a ZoS invention, ive had games in game gear and game boy that had scaling on. Now if you think that ZoS created it, its fine by me.
ESO's early versions had nothing to do with WoW, ZoS created ESO for ex-skyrim players who only did light attacks, that is the exactly oposite of whats going on in WoW. ESO will always be a noob friendly game therefore a million miles away from becoming WoW.
you haven't seen early versions of ESO have you.... https://www.polygon.com/features/2016/10/14/13285014/elder-scrolls-online-one-tamriel-skyrim-mmo for reference. they actualy had to completely revamp their original alpha. but first iteration of ESO WAS more like WoW, before they changed it to be more like Skyrim, etc, becasue that is what players wanted.
in any case. while scaling is not a new thing, this is what blizzard does and have ALWAYS done. they look at what other games do, not just Bethesda either. they see what works and what doesn't. they see which implementations are more popular. and then they put their own spin and spit and shine on it and add it to WoW. they have been doing it for as long as they existed as a gaming company - and if you deny it, you are being willfully blind. so yeah.. I'm reasonably certain that revival one tamriel revamp brought to ESO had something to do with WoW scaling as it works right now.
P.S. I've noticed you mentioning something about WoW being more hardcore, more abilities or something. i don't know where you last played but other then adding more and more tedious grinds, they have been pruning the HECK out of abilities. I think MoP might have been peak of how many buttons you would use per character. in Vanilla and BC most extra buttons were just spell ranks becasue mana conservation and overhealing. I believe it was Wrath that did away with spell ranks. another ironic thing here is one of the MAIN reasons why WoW was and is as successful as it is it becasue they give you variety of things you could get in other games... but more casual friendly. (other then end game grinds - but I guess it goes with their "easy to learn/ difficult to master" philosophy). and its not just WoW either. Healrthstone is a less complicated Magic the gathering. Overwatch is basicaly team fortress with more colorful character and more accessible mechanics, at least for some of those characters. WoW is primarily Everquest with a bunch of odds and ends thrown in, then made more casual friendly. I will say one thing WoW does unequivocally better then ESO. explains how to play it. ESO can be confusing as heck to a new player. WoW takes all the thought out of how to spec, or get abilities as you level. ESO pretty much throws you into a deep end and tells you to swim.
I dont know how you came to the conclusion that i havent seen early ESO versions, i was playing ESO since beta.
I stoped some months after it came live, played abit in IC then quitted it until a year ago that i started burning my circuits in ESO. ESO was never like WoW, and honestly dont want it to be like WoW. I rather play WoW than a cheap clone of it.
Agree that Blizzard has been cutting down all abilities in game but as ive said: My mistweaver healing rotation was like 16 keys + 3 keys to dps mana recovery. That was a mistweaver fighting for rankings+mythic raiding spot, what does a templar do in the hardest raid of ESO? Does he press more from like 5-6 buttons?
My WoD DK rotation was like 10keys in frost and 12 keys about in Unholy. You can sure play in WoW a BM huntard with like 3 keys? But thats not the representative of the games skill required.
My windwalker rotation was far more than 13 keys, pretty complicated and the most punishing spec in game. Pressing the same key as windwalker you loose 60% damage from your master + 16% from hit combo that you need 8 GDC's to stack up again, but as much as i loved it a good healer with 95%-99% rankings is always most wanted from a good dps.
Also WoW is at least 10x more hardcore than ESO, the reason that i abandoned it ofc. But not when somebody is being a typical LFR hero ofc..When you raid mythic. Did you ever raid in mythic diff in wow? You have any cutting edge? When you reach to a point that you will compete inside warcraftlogs with the whole european crowd playing wow? Yes wow is 10x more hardcore than ESO and at least 10x harder to master your class in it. Magblades are by far the hardest dps and spec/role ingame,i really dont think they have a slight chance to compare with a windwalker or a dumbed down feral druid(since legion) or even worst from a shadow priest.
Im not gonna tell you much, just check mannoroth archimonde kiljaeden blackhand bosses in MYTHIC difficulty and compare the amount of mechanics with the hardest content you face in ESO that you claimed its harder.
Im saying this again. I dont want ESO to become WoW. I left WoW because im too old to grind and too old to wipe 120 times on the 5th boss with the 3rd best realm guild. ESO is freedom, i want it to stay as it is.
read the article. please. by the time ESO made it to Beta it was already changed to be more like Skyrim. that is NOT however what it started out as. READ. THE. ARTICLE. it even has screenshots.
moreover. if your rotation as a healer in ESO is only 4 buttons, you are being as what you so derisively called "LFR hero"
last but not least. WoW has hardcore parts, but WoW as a whole is NOT hardcore and has NEVER been hardcore. that's their whole shtick.
Healing springs?
BoL-mutagen?
Balls?
Combat prayer?
Eledrain?
Blockade?
ritual?
Rune?
If you add the 20 sec ritual eledrain rune, i can always add more to my wow rotation like racial and the 2 major CD's my class had.
Teach me the rest please?
But i wont tell you what i was doing as a monk, you can go check youself at warcraft logs Rondakunfu@stormscale pre 7.2.5 there you can see how much healing i do, healing i take. Damage i do damage i take, and what skill causes my damage done and damage taken.
My mythic logs depends or the healing cooldowns the healing officer had made up(according to his desire to rank himself) Check my heroic rankings at that version.
When we talk about how demanding a game is, we dont talk when someone is doing pet battles around kalimdor in WoW or for a guy that does fishing in reapers march. We tend to usually talk about end-game stuff right?
Now check WoW end-game PVE diff. In the bosses ive asked you to, quick look? wowhead then check ESO endgame mechanics.
Then take the 10 best PVP players of ESO and put them at a ranked arena of not much 1700 rating and cry out with the results.
These 3300 R1 gladiators are something i never speak of, lets focus of the 1700 tier.
PvP in wow is even more demanding, you dont have to drain your opponents stamina to kill him or burst him in a single CC, you have to chew up all his defensive CD's land a CC on his healer or both healer and healing/shielding co-dps and land a kill.
While ESO META pvp is like 6 wardens 2 dks 1 stamblade 1 magsorc and 1 magplar running around towers stacking on vigors and focusing 3-4 dawnbreakers in 1 random 500 cp dude thats chasing them around the tower like a mad dog.
1. stuff you listed is already twice as many skills that you originaly mentioned, but there's also depending on situation interupts involved and absolutely making sure that gear buffs like spc/olorime stay up. and you know... ulties. but most importantly, while positioning in WoW is important.. I can cast a heal by selecting/mousovering a specific player and as long as I'm in range, they will get healed. in ESo - positioning and aiming is core part of the gameplay. and healing is not all there is either. unless I'm missing something but i don't think I am.. after years and years and YEARS of certain kind of gameplay.. not only tank thread was nerfed, but it appears that all the AoE taunts are gone. now I wonder WHY is that.
regardless. end game pve is like 5% of the game. the rest of WoW is deliberately designed to be super casual friendly. always was. this is why lfr exists.
ESO is also in many ways casual friendly, with how forgiving overworld is. but its far far FAR more involved when it comes to builds.
same btw applies to competitive pvp. its a small percentage of the game. most people in WoW OR ESO do not play at high end competitive level. that is BY DESIGN. ZoS is no dummies anymore then blizzard is. they know their competitive players need an occasional bone, but they also know their bread and butter are casuals. its literally how blizzard has made every damn game they have released in probably the last 2 decades - so much more successful. its how they took MMO genre mainstream. by appealing - to CASUALS. to put it in perspective... very few people play basketball on professional level and on professional level its a demanding, challenging game. doesn't change the fact that anyone can pick up a ball and enjoy the heck out of shooting hoops with their friends in a park or backyard. this accessibility is huge part of the appeal
so yeah, when we talk about how demanding the game is - we talk about ALL of the game, not 5% of it.
and all of that arguing aside. ESO hasn't tried to be WoW since that first Alpha iteration. it has served ZoS pretty well, since in general people who just want re-skinned WoW, end up going back to actual WoW soon enough. becasue ESO is NOT WoW, people are more likely to stay becasue it IS something different rather then more of the same. of course.. I do wish that ZoS didn't try to be so different that they are different solely for the sake of being different but.. eh, nothing is ever perfect.
I said 5, added 3 more that already told you its 20sec buffs/debuffs.
If i add those stuff in wow i efficiently reach around 20+ keys, dont even remember you can check my logs for further information im too bored to do so.
MouseOver is what a pala shaman or druid would do, priests and monks demand to be next to their protect-heal targets to efficiently AoE heal them. NOT auto heals to whoever needs it the most. by switching targets. by keeping target and by having focus target and target of target.
Healing in eso is a joke.
Tanking in eso is an even bigger joke.
So as you and the post said, ESO is transformed to an EX-skyrim wanna be MMO player just to make things easy. What ive said all along.
So you think the 5% of ESO players manages to do end game content ? Really ?
Where did that statistic came from, because if youre right ESO is like 60% more hard to play than wow since 8% of total wow population mange to get their cutting edge/gladiator (google is your friend)
Eso was,is and will remain an MMO introduction for fresh players(ex skyrim LA players) in MMO community.
sigh. 5% is the number Blizzard themselves stated when they were talking about adding lfr and WHY they did that.
moreover. I love how you keep trying to claim that WoW is not a casual friendly introductory MMO when Blizzard themselves stated they designed it to be very simply and easy to get into. I mean.. when was the last time you started the character in WoW? it all but chews your food for you, and that's on PURPOSE. ESO could actualy learn from that, becasue even with level up adviser, understanding how to spec and play your character in ESO outside of light attacking random mobs requires actual studying. I love ESO to pieces, but dear god it can be counter-intuitive, EVEN if you come from Skyrim.
as post above says VERY correctly. WoW is incredibly streamlined. ESO is all about flexibility, especially if you are not locking yourself into META in order to do vet HM stuff.
BOTH are very casual friendly. you can perfectly happily play either of the games without EVER touching end game, becasue it is NOT a requirement to enjoy either of the games, and there is plenty of content being added constantly in both games. for CASUALS. its one of the few ways that WoW and ESO ARE similar. claiming that WoW is primarily a hardcore game is just... hilarious.
I have to log in since the Tomb of sargeras raid, i was mythic raiding and force quit because i had no such time to spend anymore.
Nobody said WoW is not casual friendly, if it was not would not have had 14.6m sales during legion. Not all wanna be or can be top tier players. Actually wow has so much things to do that can be MORE noob friendly from ESO. But WoW endgame PVP and PVE was, is and will remain at least 10x harder than what you get here because ESO was, IS and will forever remain the MMO bridge for EX-skyrim LA spammers that became force pulse spammers, reach spammers, whip spammers, sup attack spammers bla bla bla bla Game dps is based on spamables and AoE dots..
aside form the whole misunderstanding how people at ESO endgame actualy play and the amount of practice that goes into perfect weaving alone? hardcore portion of the game matters why exactly, when we are talking about entry level gameplay? I'm not even sure what this argument is about anymore. it doesn't get anymore casual friendly as an entry point into mmo's than WoW. it really does not. for ALL its game modes.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***0 -
Nicko_Lps✭✭✭✭✭Azuramoonstar wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »ESO can barely stand against the WoW giant. ESO lacks quality of life and has a broken soul. Fun fact - blizzard is currently eyeing up the market of ESO and is developing a direct competitor.
I currently play ESO because it is at least functional and fun on a playable level and the content is obviously a lot different then WoW. However once all caught up on DLCs and other content my playtime will be very little in this game, mostly to stay on top of released content.
ZOS doesn't have the dedicated development power it seems. Or their management has no clue how manage resources. I can't fathom why the game is in the state it is after four years of post release development. FF14 was shamed to death until it was reborn.
I really don't like getting into Game A is better than Game B discussions because these things are personal and subjective. So, let me get personal...
In my case, going into early 2014, I was coming off of WoW Panda and had planned to pre-order Draenor. I was a long time continuous subscriber to WoW, having been introduced to it by my gaming friends. ESO was not on my radar, at all, despite being an Elder Scrolls fan. I knew it was being developed, at some level, but paid absolutely no attention to anything related to the game. No screen shots. No interviews. No trailers or videos. I was unaware that the game was even in beta until late February, when someone gave me a "bring a friend" beta weekend key and told me to try it.
I created an account on February 27 for the upcoming weekend beta, played during the weekend, and pre-ordered the Imperial Edition on March 4. It was a bumpy start, but I am still playing that account and World of Warcraft is long forgotten.
The reality is that World of Warcraft never stood a chance, with me. A couple hours of playing the broken beta of ESO completely eclipsed YEARS of playing World of Warcraft.
So, yeah, tell me how great WoW is compared to ESO.
No everybody can play WoW mate, its very competitive and entirely non noob friendly. Unlike ESO.
Mained in legion a mistweaver monk, 16key rotation + 3 key dps combo for mana recovery. 7.2.5 top monks EU, came to eso and healing here is: healing springs/shards-balls/BoL/Combat prayer. No, not for me.
In WoW pve there are good and bad dpsing/healing/tanking classes. But you need to have all of them. Youre not just taking the OP magblades with you and beat the 13 mechanics? cloudrest +3 endgame PvE.
In WoW pvp there are good and bad classes, there are comps that work good with a bad class along with them and most likely if you find what youre comfortable playing with any class can top pvp ranks. (Ranks in WoW is not alliance war ranks.)
Personally ive quit WoW for ESO simply because its a full time job. Its not a game, im too old for that 24/7 grinding + i have a job + real life. Eso atm is chill mode, i wish i could play WoW but i cant have 2 full time jobs
i played WoW on and off it pretty much is new player friendly, always has been which it is why the member count hit 12mil. A fluke in the industry, WoW isn't all that competitive and around when i was playing it was all about who had the bigger boots in pvp.
Also WoW is and has always been "real life" friendly.
If you farm pets and mounts while you stay in orgrimmar AH yes its RL friendly.
Other than that, i assume you never played wow in a competitive level. If you did, paste me your warcraftlogs page and ill tell you how competitive you where.
Have a nice day.I played WoW for a long time. I started over there in Alpha testing. I literally had a dwarven mage before they were taken out of game and then subsequently brought back. (I was salty after their removal and only played Horde for a long while after).
I enjoyed World of Warcraft. I played it for a very long time. In fact, I played it right through ESO's beta (which I was fortunate enough to play) and up until after the first 30 days of ESO's release.
I am often boggled by the ESO=WoW comparison. They are not the same. Not even close.
ESO has never tried to *be* World of Warcraft any more than literally ANY fantasy MMO has tried to *be* WoW.
World of Warcraft is/was the RPGMMO to which all other MMOs have been held up to for a long time. Most games I've played since have someone popping into their chats to say how much "just like WoW this game is". Here's a secret truth for all y'all: Most games of this nature share a lot of the same things: battlegrounds; similar classes; similar environs; character tropes; etc. So by their very nature <insert MMO here> is going to be "just like Wow" or "trying too hard to be just like ESO" or "lolz, didn't I see this mechanic in Rift?"
I feel like those holding up a game to another game and saying "look at what you did here!" would be much better served by explaining and expressing what it is about *this* game that needs looking at and tweaking rather than just shouting "Look! It's exactly like <insert other MMO here>!" and waving one's arms about pretending that isn't exactly what you expected in the first place.
So, in ESO after-beta with 100x bugs + lags + exploits made you successfully forget wow?
You where the fishing and mount farming in old raids + LFR hero in WoW?
I was a WoW hater, ESO afterbeta made me a wow fanatic.
Also,dont wanna be rude to you or anybody else that loves ESO as much as i do but ESO cant be WoW and will never be.
If ZoS could make ESO like WoW they would, untill then lets fix the 6 months old combat bug of 1 hour + in cyrodiil or the sticky sprint.
Easy steps..One by One.
funny story. early versions of ESO were actualy closer to WoW. they changed it to be more like ES games, practically remade the game from scratch. so no, ZoS woudln't make ESO more like WoW if they could, when they did the exact opposite already. WoW on the other hand, HAS been borrowing from ZoS, what with how they implemented scaling and all as well as loosely warfronts.
If you think Blizzard is borrowing up things from Bethesda i better not answer you at all.
Scaling is not a ZoS invention, ive had games in game gear and game boy that had scaling on. Now if you think that ZoS created it, its fine by me.
ESO's early versions had nothing to do with WoW, ZoS created ESO for ex-skyrim players who only did light attacks, that is the exactly oposite of whats going on in WoW. ESO will always be a noob friendly game therefore a million miles away from becoming WoW.
you haven't seen early versions of ESO have you.... https://www.polygon.com/features/2016/10/14/13285014/elder-scrolls-online-one-tamriel-skyrim-mmo for reference. they actualy had to completely revamp their original alpha. but first iteration of ESO WAS more like WoW, before they changed it to be more like Skyrim, etc, becasue that is what players wanted.
in any case. while scaling is not a new thing, this is what blizzard does and have ALWAYS done. they look at what other games do, not just Bethesda either. they see what works and what doesn't. they see which implementations are more popular. and then they put their own spin and spit and shine on it and add it to WoW. they have been doing it for as long as they existed as a gaming company - and if you deny it, you are being willfully blind. so yeah.. I'm reasonably certain that revival one tamriel revamp brought to ESO had something to do with WoW scaling as it works right now.
P.S. I've noticed you mentioning something about WoW being more hardcore, more abilities or something. i don't know where you last played but other then adding more and more tedious grinds, they have been pruning the HECK out of abilities. I think MoP might have been peak of how many buttons you would use per character. in Vanilla and BC most extra buttons were just spell ranks becasue mana conservation and overhealing. I believe it was Wrath that did away with spell ranks. another ironic thing here is one of the MAIN reasons why WoW was and is as successful as it is it becasue they give you variety of things you could get in other games... but more casual friendly. (other then end game grinds - but I guess it goes with their "easy to learn/ difficult to master" philosophy). and its not just WoW either. Healrthstone is a less complicated Magic the gathering. Overwatch is basicaly team fortress with more colorful character and more accessible mechanics, at least for some of those characters. WoW is primarily Everquest with a bunch of odds and ends thrown in, then made more casual friendly. I will say one thing WoW does unequivocally better then ESO. explains how to play it. ESO can be confusing as heck to a new player. WoW takes all the thought out of how to spec, or get abilities as you level. ESO pretty much throws you into a deep end and tells you to swim.
I dont know how you came to the conclusion that i havent seen early ESO versions, i was playing ESO since beta.
I stoped some months after it came live, played abit in IC then quitted it until a year ago that i started burning my circuits in ESO. ESO was never like WoW, and honestly dont want it to be like WoW. I rather play WoW than a cheap clone of it.
Agree that Blizzard has been cutting down all abilities in game but as ive said: My mistweaver healing rotation was like 16 keys + 3 keys to dps mana recovery. That was a mistweaver fighting for rankings+mythic raiding spot, what does a templar do in the hardest raid of ESO? Does he press more from like 5-6 buttons?
My WoD DK rotation was like 10keys in frost and 12 keys about in Unholy. You can sure play in WoW a BM huntard with like 3 keys? But thats not the representative of the games skill required.
My windwalker rotation was far more than 13 keys, pretty complicated and the most punishing spec in game. Pressing the same key as windwalker you loose 60% damage from your master + 16% from hit combo that you need 8 GDC's to stack up again, but as much as i loved it a good healer with 95%-99% rankings is always most wanted from a good dps.
Also WoW is at least 10x more hardcore than ESO, the reason that i abandoned it ofc. But not when somebody is being a typical LFR hero ofc..When you raid mythic. Did you ever raid in mythic diff in wow? You have any cutting edge? When you reach to a point that you will compete inside warcraftlogs with the whole european crowd playing wow? Yes wow is 10x more hardcore than ESO and at least 10x harder to master your class in it. Magblades are by far the hardest dps and spec/role ingame,i really dont think they have a slight chance to compare with a windwalker or a dumbed down feral druid(since legion) or even worst from a shadow priest.
Im not gonna tell you much, just check mannoroth archimonde kiljaeden blackhand bosses in MYTHIC difficulty and compare the amount of mechanics with the hardest content you face in ESO that you claimed its harder.
Im saying this again. I dont want ESO to become WoW. I left WoW because im too old to grind and too old to wipe 120 times on the 5th boss with the 3rd best realm guild. ESO is freedom, i want it to stay as it is.
read the article. please. by the time ESO made it to Beta it was already changed to be more like Skyrim. that is NOT however what it started out as. READ. THE. ARTICLE. it even has screenshots.
moreover. if your rotation as a healer in ESO is only 4 buttons, you are being as what you so derisively called "LFR hero"
last but not least. WoW has hardcore parts, but WoW as a whole is NOT hardcore and has NEVER been hardcore. that's their whole shtick.
Healing springs?
BoL-mutagen?
Balls?
Combat prayer?
Eledrain?
Blockade?
ritual?
Rune?
If you add the 20 sec ritual eledrain rune, i can always add more to my wow rotation like racial and the 2 major CD's my class had.
Teach me the rest please?
But i wont tell you what i was doing as a monk, you can go check youself at warcraft logs Rondakunfu@stormscale pre 7.2.5 there you can see how much healing i do, healing i take. Damage i do damage i take, and what skill causes my damage done and damage taken.
My mythic logs depends or the healing cooldowns the healing officer had made up(according to his desire to rank himself) Check my heroic rankings at that version.
When we talk about how demanding a game is, we dont talk when someone is doing pet battles around kalimdor in WoW or for a guy that does fishing in reapers march. We tend to usually talk about end-game stuff right?
Now check WoW end-game PVE diff. In the bosses ive asked you to, quick look? wowhead then check ESO endgame mechanics.
Then take the 10 best PVP players of ESO and put them at a ranked arena of not much 1700 rating and cry out with the results.
These 3300 R1 gladiators are something i never speak of, lets focus of the 1700 tier.
PvP in wow is even more demanding, you dont have to drain your opponents stamina to kill him or burst him in a single CC, you have to chew up all his defensive CD's land a CC on his healer or both healer and healing/shielding co-dps and land a kill.
While ESO META pvp is like 6 wardens 2 dks 1 stamblade 1 magsorc and 1 magplar running around towers stacking on vigors and focusing 3-4 dawnbreakers in 1 random 500 cp dude thats chasing them around the tower like a mad dog.
1. stuff you listed is already twice as many skills that you originaly mentioned, but there's also depending on situation interupts involved and absolutely making sure that gear buffs like spc/olorime stay up. and you know... ulties. but most importantly, while positioning in WoW is important.. I can cast a heal by selecting/mousovering a specific player and as long as I'm in range, they will get healed. in ESo - positioning and aiming is core part of the gameplay. and healing is not all there is either. unless I'm missing something but i don't think I am.. after years and years and YEARS of certain kind of gameplay.. not only tank thread was nerfed, but it appears that all the AoE taunts are gone. now I wonder WHY is that.
regardless. end game pve is like 5% of the game. the rest of WoW is deliberately designed to be super casual friendly. always was. this is why lfr exists.
ESO is also in many ways casual friendly, with how forgiving overworld is. but its far far FAR more involved when it comes to builds.
same btw applies to competitive pvp. its a small percentage of the game. most people in WoW OR ESO do not play at high end competitive level. that is BY DESIGN. ZoS is no dummies anymore then blizzard is. they know their competitive players need an occasional bone, but they also know their bread and butter are casuals. its literally how blizzard has made every damn game they have released in probably the last 2 decades - so much more successful. its how they took MMO genre mainstream. by appealing - to CASUALS. to put it in perspective... very few people play basketball on professional level and on professional level its a demanding, challenging game. doesn't change the fact that anyone can pick up a ball and enjoy the heck out of shooting hoops with their friends in a park or backyard. this accessibility is huge part of the appeal
so yeah, when we talk about how demanding the game is - we talk about ALL of the game, not 5% of it.
and all of that arguing aside. ESO hasn't tried to be WoW since that first Alpha iteration. it has served ZoS pretty well, since in general people who just want re-skinned WoW, end up going back to actual WoW soon enough. becasue ESO is NOT WoW, people are more likely to stay becasue it IS something different rather then more of the same. of course.. I do wish that ZoS didn't try to be so different that they are different solely for the sake of being different but.. eh, nothing is ever perfect.
I said 5, added 3 more that already told you its 20sec buffs/debuffs.
If i add those stuff in wow i efficiently reach around 20+ keys, dont even remember you can check my logs for further information im too bored to do so.
MouseOver is what a pala shaman or druid would do, priests and monks demand to be next to their protect-heal targets to efficiently AoE heal them. NOT auto heals to whoever needs it the most. by switching targets. by keeping target and by having focus target and target of target.
Healing in eso is a joke.
Tanking in eso is an even bigger joke.
So as you and the post said, ESO is transformed to an EX-skyrim wanna be MMO player just to make things easy. What ive said all along.
So you think the 5% of ESO players manages to do end game content ? Really ?
Where did that statistic came from, because if youre right ESO is like 60% more hard to play than wow since 8% of total wow population mange to get their cutting edge/gladiator (google is your friend)
Eso was,is and will remain an MMO introduction for fresh players(ex skyrim LA players) in MMO community.
sigh. 5% is the number Blizzard themselves stated when they were talking about adding lfr and WHY they did that.
moreover. I love how you keep trying to claim that WoW is not a casual friendly introductory MMO when Blizzard themselves stated they designed it to be very simply and easy to get into. I mean.. when was the last time you started the character in WoW? it all but chews your food for you, and that's on PURPOSE. ESO could actualy learn from that, becasue even with level up adviser, understanding how to spec and play your character in ESO outside of light attacking random mobs requires actual studying. I love ESO to pieces, but dear god it can be counter-intuitive, EVEN if you come from Skyrim.
as post above says VERY correctly. WoW is incredibly streamlined. ESO is all about flexibility, especially if you are not locking yourself into META in order to do vet HM stuff.
BOTH are very casual friendly. you can perfectly happily play either of the games without EVER touching end game, becasue it is NOT a requirement to enjoy either of the games, and there is plenty of content being added constantly in both games. for CASUALS. its one of the few ways that WoW and ESO ARE similar. claiming that WoW is primarily a hardcore game is just... hilarious.
I have to log in since the Tomb of sargeras raid, i was mythic raiding and force quit because i had no such time to spend anymore.
Nobody said WoW is not casual friendly, if it was not would not have had 14.6m sales during legion. Not all wanna be or can be top tier players. Actually wow has so much things to do that can be MORE noob friendly from ESO. But WoW endgame PVP and PVE was, is and will remain at least 10x harder than what you get here because ESO was, IS and will forever remain the MMO bridge for EX-skyrim LA spammers that became force pulse spammers, reach spammers, whip spammers, sup attack spammers bla bla bla bla Game dps is based on spamables and AoE dots..
aside form the whole misunderstanding how people at ESO endgame actualy play and the amount of practice that goes into perfect weaving alone? hardcore portion of the game matters why exactly, when we are talking about entry level gameplay? I'm not even sure what this argument is about anymore. it doesn't get anymore casual friendly as an entry point into mmo's than WoW. it really does not. for ALL its game modes.
Im not a good player, got used to weaving in less than 2 weeks while i was used to always hold right click on wow to move cam OR blockcast everything during the first ESO live days.
Thats what is considered pro in ESO nowadays? click skill click skill?
To go further than that, 90% of times i successfully block cancel my skills too(if lagHammer dont go hard on me). Not needed in PvE ofcourse but i do.
There is 0 misunderstanding from my side in ESO end game PVE, but i think there is 100% ignorance from your side on WoW endgame pve since you have no idea what mythic is. Mythic kicked in when pandaland ended, Siege of Orgrimmar. That seems to be our argument. I will also add at this point that i would 100% be doing end game PVE if my FPS in that lagfest game would not drop below 15 during raiding. I know, my pc is not that good but in wow it worked well lol0 -
Cuthceol✭✭✭LOL, I wish they would try copying WoW,
bugs might get fixed in less than 6 months-2 years,
updates not released with bugs reported on PTS,
re-introduce bugs they previously fixed,
provide features with barely working functionality with a promise of more depth to come that never does
Hell of a lot they could learn from other games but continue to make the same mistakes as others before them, resulting in ESO being average at best instead of amazing.
3
