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A plea to Loremaster
znrk
✭✭✭
Hello
A few words from me about the excellent lore provided by ESO and one problem associated with it.
First, TL,DR: quest-locking lorebooks (including eidetic memory) is a bad thing and forces me to focus on being extremely careful when progressing the quest rather than enjoying the quest.
Second, the full explanation. TES lore is excellent on many levels and it was TES lore that made me start playing ESO in the first place. And I must say that you, ZoS, did a hell of a good job with lore. I love it all. I love every single piece of old decaying journal or scrappy note I find; I love how you sometimes make me connect the dots between various parts of the world.
However, here's the rub: because of locking the lorebooks behind the quests, either in a form of a quest-locked location, or in a form of silently adding the lore pieces to inventory without notifying me about that, you force me to be extremely careful about lorebooks when I go questing. Otherwise the books might become inaccessible for me. Please do not do that. Please utilize some well-known and already-in-place mechanisms to prevent players losing lorebook access. Don't close the quest locations, or if you have to - drop the lorebooks at the entrance visible only for those who completed associated quests. If you add a lore piece to my inventory, please notify me about that - do not do that silently. Do not make me check my inventory after every quest dialogue just because you might add something into it. On top of that, place the lorebooks at the "turn the quest in" position and again make it visible only for those who completed associated quests. That way I could naturally progress through the quests and enjoy them without worrying about possibly missing the books.
You are well aware of the problem because that's what happened in Morrowind: a lot of lorebooks were quest-locked/location-locked and for the next few months after releasing it, you were fixing the inaccessible lore pieces by adding post-quest locations. I remember well, and we can see that in the patchnotes. But the problem returned with new force in Summerset.
I can't read "Divine Prosecution Notification" that glows right into my face on three streetlamps in three cities in Summerset because when I reached Alinor for the first time, I was so excited to do stuff for Divine Prosecution when I saw daily quest indicators that I immediately jumped on the possibility. Now I can't interact with that poster.
I was so excited about the unfolding events in my first Summerset quest that I missed "Invitation to the Kinlady's Conference" you silently added to my inventory. Now it’s gone for me until you provide post-quest location.
While enjoying Karnwasten, I stumbled upon a fellow that I could persuade. Of course I persuaded him, why wouldn't I? That option is there to be used, not avoided, correct? But as a result, "Night Runner Captain's Journal" is not accessible for me anymore, because apparently if we persuade the dude, we can't find and read that journal. Again, there is no alternative location for it.
I know there is plenty of other lore in Summerset with the same problems. Some have been reported here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/424367/summerset-eidetic-books-that-need-to-be-fixed.
This lore quest-locking has been a problem for us for a long time and it really should be avoided. The simplest solution is to provide post-quest locations. Examples of other lorebooks affected by the lack of post-quest locations are "Rhanbiq's Notes" available only during the very last quest from Thieves Guild DLC or "Nahirah's Journal" available only through "The Search for Shiri" quest in Alik'r - I even submitted a bug report about the latter: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/397309/eidetic-memory-bug-nahirahs-journal-inaccessible-for-part-of-the-players
There is excellent forum thread about problems with lorebooks, cheers to every person over there helping others: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/270549/eidetic-memory-bugs-comments-help
To sum it up: please, don't quest-lock the lorebooks, provide alternative ways to obtain them, the easiest would be - I guess - to provide post-quest locations.
Thank you for providing excellent storytelling over the years!
A few words from me about the excellent lore provided by ESO and one problem associated with it.
First, TL,DR: quest-locking lorebooks (including eidetic memory) is a bad thing and forces me to focus on being extremely careful when progressing the quest rather than enjoying the quest.
Second, the full explanation. TES lore is excellent on many levels and it was TES lore that made me start playing ESO in the first place. And I must say that you, ZoS, did a hell of a good job with lore. I love it all. I love every single piece of old decaying journal or scrappy note I find; I love how you sometimes make me connect the dots between various parts of the world.
However, here's the rub: because of locking the lorebooks behind the quests, either in a form of a quest-locked location, or in a form of silently adding the lore pieces to inventory without notifying me about that, you force me to be extremely careful about lorebooks when I go questing. Otherwise the books might become inaccessible for me. Please do not do that. Please utilize some well-known and already-in-place mechanisms to prevent players losing lorebook access. Don't close the quest locations, or if you have to - drop the lorebooks at the entrance visible only for those who completed associated quests. If you add a lore piece to my inventory, please notify me about that - do not do that silently. Do not make me check my inventory after every quest dialogue just because you might add something into it. On top of that, place the lorebooks at the "turn the quest in" position and again make it visible only for those who completed associated quests. That way I could naturally progress through the quests and enjoy them without worrying about possibly missing the books.
You are well aware of the problem because that's what happened in Morrowind: a lot of lorebooks were quest-locked/location-locked and for the next few months after releasing it, you were fixing the inaccessible lore pieces by adding post-quest locations. I remember well, and we can see that in the patchnotes. But the problem returned with new force in Summerset.
I can't read "Divine Prosecution Notification" that glows right into my face on three streetlamps in three cities in Summerset because when I reached Alinor for the first time, I was so excited to do stuff for Divine Prosecution when I saw daily quest indicators that I immediately jumped on the possibility. Now I can't interact with that poster.
I was so excited about the unfolding events in my first Summerset quest that I missed "Invitation to the Kinlady's Conference" you silently added to my inventory. Now it’s gone for me until you provide post-quest location.
While enjoying Karnwasten, I stumbled upon a fellow that I could persuade. Of course I persuaded him, why wouldn't I? That option is there to be used, not avoided, correct? But as a result, "Night Runner Captain's Journal" is not accessible for me anymore, because apparently if we persuade the dude, we can't find and read that journal. Again, there is no alternative location for it.
I know there is plenty of other lore in Summerset with the same problems. Some have been reported here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/424367/summerset-eidetic-books-that-need-to-be-fixed.
This lore quest-locking has been a problem for us for a long time and it really should be avoided. The simplest solution is to provide post-quest locations. Examples of other lorebooks affected by the lack of post-quest locations are "Rhanbiq's Notes" available only during the very last quest from Thieves Guild DLC or "Nahirah's Journal" available only through "The Search for Shiri" quest in Alik'r - I even submitted a bug report about the latter: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/397309/eidetic-memory-bug-nahirahs-journal-inaccessible-for-part-of-the-players
There is excellent forum thread about problems with lorebooks, cheers to every person over there helping others: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/270549/eidetic-memory-bugs-comments-help
To sum it up: please, don't quest-lock the lorebooks, provide alternative ways to obtain them, the easiest would be - I guess - to provide post-quest locations.
Thank you for providing excellent storytelling over the years!
PC/EU
3
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starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭First, TL,DR: quest-locking lorebooks (including eidetic memory) is a bad thing and forces me to focus on being extremely careful when progressing the quest rather than enjoying the quest.
Most Editic Memory entries can be found after the completion of a quest somewhere in the immediate vicinity. So if you do miss a piece of text, you can find it later, elsewhere. That said, there are a few pages and books that do not repeat. In these cases, it's best to report that issue on discovery, as ZOS has been fairly good about fixing them.0