Smallscale Campaign

Dont_do_drugs

Just some thoughts I recently had following the sloads- and sieges discussions, I just wonder, why ZOS keeps killing any tactical aspect of PVP with such changes !trying! fullfill smaller groups and smallscalers needs as well.

For me tactical aspects are important, even in group battles of more than 12 men groups, I like long fights, also long mass fights (if the performance was good), I also know how to survive alone, but I am quite critical about crying smallscalers, which complain, when they get nuked from "zergs", since Cyrodiil always has been promoted as mass-pvp, same time I have highest respect for some smallscale-groups which are able to kill way bigger groups.

After all the time I am playing eso, I am wondering why ZOS never made a campaign with completely other rules/restrictions, this means:

* lower population cap
* groups capped at 8 or 12 people (i know, there is still a chance, more groups just run together)
* lower siege caps
* maybe if other people also have ideas to keep "zerging" out of the campaign...other stuff
* higher ap ticks

There will never be a way to fullfill the needs of every playstyle in cyrodiil, no set adjusting, no adjusting of sieges will ever help the situation if you dont support splitting up the playstyles into their own campaigns. No smallscaler gets zerged by a 24-man group and has to cry then, no need for sloads, no need for siege-dmg-increase.

Gprime31

How about you get 0 ap for groups above 12 players, I miss small scale.

Feanor

To me it’s about all the stuff that makes running solo even harder. I accept that as a player who doesn’t group up and thus doesn’t have reliable support things are and should be harder. But to make it even harder and harder every patch with the addition of poison, powerful proc sets, the overturned siege, and Xv1 mechanics like snares and oblivion damage - that’s what I don’t get.

Dont_do_drugs

Feanor wrote: »

To me it’s about all the stuff that makes running solo even harder. I accept that as a player who doesn’t group up and thus doesn’t have reliable support things are and should be harder. But to make it even harder and harder every patch with the addition of poison, powerful proc sets, the overturned siege, and Xv1 mechanics like snares and oblivion damage - that’s what I don’t get.

actually i think, a lot of stuff which zos implemented, which makes smallscalers concern, has been implemented to support smallscalers to get along with bigger groups but after all is getting "misused" by the bigger groups as well. just think of vicious death set in the beginning, its been a zergkiller and made as this, but not only solists used it, but also bombgroups then. also increased siege damage looks to me as if zos intended to give solists and small amounts of people something to work against zergs. and this cancerous changes wont ever stop, as long as those playstyles wont get splitted up.

Turelus

Cyrodiil was build to be massive sandbox style siege wars, not an even balanced battleground.

Trying to make it anything else goes against the point of what it was made for. There is always room for small scale and skirmish warfare in that but you have to have some expectation of how play differs.

ZOS has been making changes to Cyrodiil to try and make fighting over resources more of a small scale activity and the keeps for the bigger groups which if they can get right will make for a much more interesting PvP experience than just capping players.

If you're playing as a small group part of the skill and winning in PvP is the ability to engage and disengage a larger group without wiping. Also there isn't really a loss (if you don't care about objectives) if your group does get run over by a zerg.
Respawn, take a bio-break and go out again.

Dont_do_drugs

If you're playing as a small group part of the skill and winning in PvP is the ability to engage and disengage a larger group without wiping. Also there isn't really a loss (if you don't care about objectives) if your group does get run over by a zerg.
Respawn, take a bio-break and go out again.

Thats what you say, how it should be, but after all all those changes make a lot of people lose fun in cyrodiil, also i know of some befriended players quitting on eso because of the last patch and the upcoming. so just saying "its not a real loss losing against a zerg" - seemingly some people find it demotivating, that zos screws up attempts to balance group players and smallscalers.

Feanor

@Turelus

You’d have a point if the game could handle the large scale battles. It doesn’t since 1.6 and we all know that.

Turelus

Feanor wrote: »

Turelus

You’d have a point if the game could handle the large scale battles. It doesn’t since 1.6 and we all know that.

Right, but is gutting Cyrodiil down to a 12v12v12 really the right solution to that? The caps have been lowered so much as it is vs the levels of beta and launch.

I agree lag is an issue (and one hopefully we'll see some reductions in eventually) but I personally don't want to see what Cyrodiil is mean to be turned into Battle Grounds Plus.

Feanor

Turelus wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Turelus

You’d have a point if the game could handle the large scale battles. It doesn’t since 1.6 and we all know that.

Right, but is gutting Cyrodiil down to a 12v12v12 really the right solution to that? The caps have been lowered so much as it is vs the levels of beta and launch.

I agree lag is an issue (and one hopefully we'll see some reductions in eventually) but I personally don't want to see what Cyrodiil is mean to be turned into Battle Grounds Plus.

We’re talking an extra campaign, maybe even with a smaller map. Not turning the main campaigns into something different.

Personally, I’d not need a dedicated small scale campaign. It would be sufficient if ZOS didn’t try to make it harder as it already is. Get rid of poisons, tune down snares, disable damage proc sets, scrap oblivion damage, tone down siege, fix CC and immunity.

dtsharples

We need something in addition to Cyrodiil, not within it.
There is a tonne of unused space on the map, around the edges of Cyrodiil that could be utilised to provide some smaller-scale PVP.

My suggestion would be something along the lines of larger scale battlegrounds.
Each faction can have a maximum of 20 players, with any pre-made groups joining being capped at 4 people.
The map would only need to be about the size of the ring of the 6 inner keeps.
This way people can choose to either act alone, as a small group, or as one large force.

Obviously there would need to be more than 5 campaigns, to cater for whatever demand their might be.
Or possibly just make it similar to how you currently join the Random Group Finder / Battlegrounds.

Beardimus

TO be honest the reason why I roll Sotha or Shor is for small scale.

I'm unsure the Pop needs to be split further - i.e. another PVP area. But I am open to anything that keeps small scale quality. And theres nothing worse than the ZERG of alliance switching cheats descend on a a quality Sotha or Shor campaign and ruin it.

I'm just unsure what can be done.

Beardimus

Of course the irony being. half this forum is declaring the death of PVP and no one is left....

Yet we are saying there are TOO MANY players haha

Awesome

Thraben

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

Just some thoughts I recently had following the sloads- and sieges discussions, I just wonder, why ZOS keeps killing any tactical aspect of PVP with such changes !trying! fullfill smaller groups and smallscalers needs as well.

For me tactical aspects are important, even in group battles of more than 12 men groups, I like long fights, also long mass fights (if the performance was good), I also know how to survive alone, but I am quite critical about crying smallscalers, which complain, when they get nuked from "zergs", since Cyrodiil always has been promoted as mass-pvp, same time I have highest respect for some smallscale-groups which are able to kill way bigger groups.

After all the time I am playing eso, I am wondering why ZOS never made a campaign with completely other rules/restrictions, this means:

* lower population cap
* groups capped at 8 or 12 people (i know, there is still a chance, more groups just run together)
* lower siege caps
* maybe if other people also have ideas to keep "zerging" out of the campaign...other stuff
* higher ap ticks

There will never be a way to fullfill the needs of every playstyle in cyrodiil, no set adjusting, no adjusting of sieges will ever help the situation if you dont support splitting up the playstyles into their own campaigns. No smallscaler gets zerged by a 24-man group and has to cry then, no need for sloads, no need for siege-dmg-increase.

Firstly, I would join a campaign where the group size is capped at 8. IF there were enough other players there, which I doubt. Because:
1) There are not enough people willing to lead a group ot there.
2) Only VERY elite groups would be able to take a keep; everyone else would just defend which makes it even more diffcult to attack one.
3) Without enough organized 8person groups, the solo players will leave the server, because there are no fights to join, and because even IF you left your keep alone, you would be instantly ganked by 8 bored Stamblades.
4) Then people will start leaving the server, and the 8-persons groups will also leave because there aren´t enough enemies to fight.

By the way most of the ever-crying "small scalers" wouldn´t join the campaign either, because most are self- glorifying gankers who want to farm bad players and aren´t looking for really challenging fights.

Dont_do_drugs

Feanor wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Turelus

You’d have a point if the game could handle the large scale battles. It doesn’t since 1.6 and we all know that.

Right, but is gutting Cyrodiil down to a 12v12v12 really the right solution to that? The caps have been lowered so much as it is vs the levels of beta and launch.

I agree lag is an issue (and one hopefully we'll see some reductions in eventually) but I personally don't want to see what Cyrodiil is mean to be turned into Battle Grounds Plus.

It would be sufficient if ZOS didn’t try to make it harder as it already is. Get rid of poisons, tune down snares, disable damage proc sets, scrap oblivion damage, tone down siege, fix CC and immunity.

this wont ever happen, u know that. even if some stuff gets nerfed again, in some months they gonna smash another gamebreaker into cyrodiil.

VaranisArano

I've gone to PC/NA Shor with an organized group of 12 players and we still smashed up the map and got called a zerg.

There's a reason my guild raids stay in laggy Vivec and its because if there's not equal competition, its no fun for us or the smaller groups we fight on campaigns like Shor.

A lot of the population issues would be fixed if ZOS could fix Cyrodiil's performance issues. Large scale combat would work the way its supposed to, and with a larger overall population, we could have more 7 day campaigns where small scale thrives.