PTS Update 19 - Feedback Thread for Combat Changes

ZOS_GinaBruno

This is the official feedback thread for the global combat changes. We’re specifically looking for feedback on the duration reduction to snares and defiles, and the increased movement speed on pets. After you have a chance to try out different combat scenarios, let us know what you think of the current balance and changes.

JohnOfMarkarth

is there an active effort fer making wardens ... so underwhelmin?
It is indeed very saddenin.
is this the 'buy to lose' policy?

With regards, a Reachman.

Valkysas154

Solar Barrage (morph): Removed the cast time from this ability, and decreased the damage done by approximately 40%.


Remove that 40% nerf - its only procs the dmg every 2sec and its a 6sec skill !
why Blockade procs every 1 sec and lasts 8sec

This is just a flat out nerf and still becomes useless vs blockade which is the only none templar skill i use only since solar sucks so much ! and still looks like it's going to suck

Doctordarkspawn

Rune Focus:

This ability and its morphs now apply Major Ward, Major Resolve, and all morph effects to you directly for 15 seconds.
Standing within the area of effect now increases the Major Ward and Major Resolve effects by 50%.
Increased the cost of this ability and Restoring Focus to 2700 Magicka from 1890.
Channeled Focus (morph): Increased the cost of this ability to 1891 Magicka from 1080.

Nobody wants this.

I dont want this. As a templar tank who this seems made to benefit I dont like this, because quite frankly it's more of a nerf then anything. Yeah, It gives me more armor, but if I wanted more armor there's alot of ways to get it without nerfing my sustain consideribly as a magicka tank.

The normal ability was enough, it was a low cost armor ability that required you to sit still, you didn't need more encouragement to stay in an area. And even then, this is useless for most tanks because even then, most raids nowadays have anti-armor abilities. So why bother? Nobody runs armor, just mitigation. Just damage reduction, which is far superior, so who is this change even for?

Remove this change, it's not constructive to any tank I'm aware of. I'm downloading the PTS to test to see if I can live with it, but my first reaction is, it isn't worth it, and I dont see why this change was made.

Aliyavana

Sload’s Semblance:
Removed the first damage over time tick.
The damage over time effect now begins dealing damage 1 second after it has been applied.
Decreased the total damage by approximately 15% due to the removed tick.
Fixed an issue where the damage over time from this item set was removing invisibility.
Fixed an issue where the damage over time could proc itself.

---

Sloads main issue was that it stacked effortless unmitigatable damage from multiple players thus making it a death sentence to players.

Make it so it can't stack but another sloads procing on you will refresh the duration of sload

Also make sloads only proc on direct damage as the set is way to rewarding for how much little effort is needed for the big payout

casparian

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Nobody wants this.

Every templar in PVP wants this and has been asking for it (or something similar) for a very long time. Don't forget that the game is supposed to contain more activities and playstyles than your own.

I agree that templar PVE tanks still need some love though.

Neoauspex

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Rune Focus:

This ability and its morphs now apply Major Ward, Major Resolve, and all morph effects to you directly for 15 seconds.
Standing within the area of effect now increases the Major Ward and Major Resolve effects by 50%.
Increased the cost of this ability and Restoring Focus to 2700 Magicka from 1890.
Channeled Focus (morph): Increased the cost of this ability to 1891 Magicka from 1080.

Nobody wants this.

I dont want this. As a templar tank who this seems made to benefit I dont like this, because quite frankly it's more of a nerf then anything. Yeah, It gives me more armor, but if I wanted more armor there's alot of ways to get it without nerfing my sustain consideribly as a magicka tank.

The normal ability was enough, it was a low cost armor ability that required you to sit still, you didn't need more encouragement to stay in an area. And even then, this is useless for most tanks because even then, most raids nowadays have anti-armor abilities. So why bother? Nobody runs armor, just mitigation. Just damage reduction, which is far superior, so who is this change even for?

Remove this change, it's not constructive to any tank I'm aware of. I'm downloading the PTS to test to see if I can live with it, but my first reaction is, it isn't worth it, and I dont see why this change was made.

I want this.

Bashev

5: When you deal Critical Damage with a melee Light Attack, you gain a stack of Blood Scent for 8 seconds. When you gain 5 stacks, you become Frenzied for 5 seconds, increasing your melee Light Attack damage by 50% and attack speed by 50%. This effect can occur every 18 seconds.

What does Attack speed? Decrease the cooldown between light attacks? Makes the animation faster?

Syiccal

the change to rune focus is more than welcome..it will not effect sustain as you will not need to cast it as often..so yes it cost more but last almost twice as long

NBrookus

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Rune Focus:

This ability and its morphs now apply Major Ward, Major Resolve, and all morph effects to you directly for 15 seconds.
Standing within the area of effect now increases the Major Ward and Major Resolve effects by 50%.
Increased the cost of this ability and Restoring Focus to 2700 Magicka from 1890.
Channeled Focus (morph): Increased the cost of this ability to 1891 Magicka from 1080.

Nobody wants this.

I dont want this.

I want this. As a PVE tank you can still stay in the same place if you want; doing so in PVP and in many of the newer dungeons that require movement make it a pain to keep up.

Doctordarkspawn

NBrookus wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Rune Focus:

This ability and its morphs now apply Major Ward, Major Resolve, and all morph effects to you directly for 15 seconds.
Standing within the area of effect now increases the Major Ward and Major Resolve effects by 50%.
Increased the cost of this ability and Restoring Focus to 2700 Magicka from 1890.
Channeled Focus (morph): Increased the cost of this ability to 1891 Magicka from 1080.

Nobody wants this.

I dont want this.

I want this. As a PVE tank you can still stay in the same place if you want; doing so in PVP and in many of the newer dungeons that require movement make it a pain to keep up.

That's a PVP problem.

At the very least, keep the cost the same, remove the buff while standing in the circle. If you must screw us for the sake of PVP just call it a straight update and dont mess with it from there. Because that way everyone benefits, there was no real reason to increase the damn cost. Even with the new ability if you want the extra armor you stay put, the cost increase is what I'm adversed to because there's just no reason for it.

TLDR: Either do the following:

- Reduce cost back to live, remove the amplification of armor, keep all other changes.

- Keep cost increase, but remove the armor amp. Instead, have standing in the focus increase the additional buffs (The Magicka Regen, the Protection, the Healing Taken) by 50%.

Both of these would stay true to what the change is trying to do, adress PVP concerns, and have minimal impact on PVE, or give them something for the low cost armor ability they lost.

edit: Just gonna edit this.

Tested it. Is it that bad? No. Would I have prefered either of the above suggestions? Yes.

Feedback stands.

Apherius

MEND WOUND

Wow, now mend wound is even worse, it's wasn't even useful.

• Mend Wounds: Weapon swapping to an ability bar that does not have this ability or its morphs slotted will now toggle the ability off.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/411614/discussion-about-mend-wounds-and-morphs
They probably did not read this thread, mend wound was Underperforming and you nerfed it ! Why would anyone want to lost 2 bar slot for this ? ( like twillight tormentor )

Durham

Night Blades are still over performing .... being able to mitigate dot damage in stealth has to go .. After the next patch with the speed in the game now ....Stealth Pots are almost useless... .. On my Knight Blade I run 16 to 19K magicka and that allows me to mitigate crazy amounts of damage that otherwise I could not do on my other stam classes.....With high weapon damage I can heal just fine ... This class is over-performing some adjustments need to be made...

Currently I play all stam based toons by far the easiest to play successfully is the Stam Nightblade ... After this next patch with shorter defiles ... Less player ability to knock them out of stealth ... With the speed pots and swift trait stealth speed is crazy good and detection pots are already next to useless ... By far this is the best class to play in open world imo... Currently nightblades are everywhere along with sorcs.... I would like to see the other stam classes be brought up ...

Remember this is a class with insane burst with a defile ... That can reset a fight at its own choosing (Vigor/Cloak,Cloak) is much better than Vigor with multiple dots ticking on you plus being visible for other forms of damage...

Tommy_The_Gun

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/424230/pts-patch-notes-v4-1-0/p1
Assassination

Death Stroke
Incapacitating Strike (morph): This ability now only stuns your enemy if your current health percentage is lower than the target’s.

Wait a second. So NB will have to have a less % of health than their target just to stun them ? Ok so this ULT (yes keep in mind that this is an Ultimate ability) that is mostly used as a fight opener will no longer stun the target unless a NB has like 99% health vs 100% health target. So NB will have to like hurt themselves before ambushing someone or what ?

That is rather weird... Keep in mind that this "Ultimate" can be dodged or blocked. So I will have to use it as a defensive mechanics ? When someone is chasing me and I have 40% health left ? Or use it mid-combat perhaps ?

There is no developer comment under this changes on PTS so I have basically no clue what was the idea behind this...

btw. It was known long before PTS patch notes that there will be some changes to Incapacitating Strike as it was suggested in the Nightblade Class Representatives thread. But the suggestion that they gave was basically the skill have no stun and weaker dmg when used at 70 ultimate points - but significantly stronger & with stun when you use it at 500 ultimate points etc.

Syiccal

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Rune Focus:

This ability and its morphs now apply Major Ward, Major Resolve, and all morph effects to you directly for 15 seconds.
Standing within the area of effect now increases the Major Ward and Major Resolve effects by 50%.
Increased the cost of this ability and Restoring Focus to 2700 Magicka from 1890.
Channeled Focus (morph): Increased the cost of this ability to 1891 Magicka from 1080.

Nobody wants this.

I dont want this.

I want this. As a PVE tank you can still stay in the same place if you want; doing so in PVP and in many of the newer dungeons that require movement make it a pain to keep up.

That's a PVP problem.

At the very least, keep the cost the same, remove the buff while standing in the circle. If you must screw us for the sake of PVP just call it a straight update and dont mess with it from there. Because that way everyone benefits, there was no real reason to increase the damn cost. Even with the new ability if you want the extra armor you stay put, the cost increase is what I'm adversed to because there's just no reason for it.

TLDR: Either do the following:

- Reduce cost back to live, remove the amplification of armor, keep all other changes.

- Keep cost increase, but remove the armor amp. Instead, have standing in the focus increase the additional buffs (The Magicka Regen, the Protection, the Healing Taken) by 50%.

Both of these would stay true to what the change is trying to do, adress PVP concerns, and have minimal impact on PVE, or give them something for the low cost armor ability they lost.

it's not a cost increase..the duration is almost twice as long meaning you don't need to recast as often therefore the cost is the same if not slightly cheaper

Doctordarkspawn

Syiccal wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Rune Focus:

This ability and its morphs now apply Major Ward, Major Resolve, and all morph effects to you directly for 15 seconds.
Standing within the area of effect now increases the Major Ward and Major Resolve effects by 50%.
Increased the cost of this ability and Restoring Focus to 2700 Magicka from 1890.
Channeled Focus (morph): Increased the cost of this ability to 1891 Magicka from 1080.

Nobody wants this.

I dont want this.

I want this. As a PVE tank you can still stay in the same place if you want; doing so in PVP and in many of the newer dungeons that require movement make it a pain to keep up.

That's a PVP problem.

At the very least, keep the cost the same, remove the buff while standing in the circle. If you must screw us for the sake of PVP just call it a straight update and dont mess with it from there. Because that way everyone benefits, there was no real reason to increase the damn cost. Even with the new ability if you want the extra armor you stay put, the cost increase is what I'm adversed to because there's just no reason for it.

TLDR: Either do the following:

- Reduce cost back to live, remove the amplification of armor, keep all other changes.

- Keep cost increase, but remove the armor amp. Instead, have standing in the focus increase the additional buffs (The Magicka Regen, the Protection, the Healing Taken) by 50%.

Both of these would stay true to what the change is trying to do, adress PVP concerns, and have minimal impact on PVE, or give them something for the low cost armor ability they lost.

it's not a cost increase..the duration is almost twice as long meaning you don't need to recast as often therefore the cost is the same if not slightly cheaper

It's a cost increase.

The base ability costs more. I dont care if casting it twice while on the run would have equaled the same thing, it still costs more. The cost is upfront.

ak_pvp

DK: Wings oh wings, once the signature OP ability of the DK, how far hath though fallen

2s is honestly slacking a little for snare removal. If 2.5s for mobile shuffle builds with unchained to make it cheap is on the lnot enough ,it will no way near be enough for a DK, who can't really stop being snared and has low mobility. As for old "but heavy used shuffle." comments: Heavy used shuffle when sustain and speed was better and unchained made it free, whereas wings is 4k for a single cast.

What it should be to be unique:

4s snare/root/falldmg immunity. Then a small buff like minor protection or evasion or expedition depending on the morph. Unique, not OP, semi mobile, but not too long.

Completely remove the reflect, it is too weak OW/BGs, since it goes down too fast literally 1s with 2 people weaving an ability, it also attracts too many complaints in a 1v1. It has wayy too many exceptions already, some of which are nonsensical, like bird or gloom wraith/ballista, valkyn can't be reflected, but it can be cloaked and status effects ignore it.

@ZOS_Wrobel Stitch the wings back together please, they don't hold up at all compared to cloak or shade, and are not even as good as shields in defense.

Xsorus

A. Defile on Reverb Bash should be longer duration then Defile on Lethal Arrow, One is a situational stun utility ability the other is a bloody spammable.

B. This change forces you to use a Defile based set unless you're running bow, you simply will not have the stamina to keep applying it over and over again since again..Reverb Bash isn't a Spammable.

_Ahala_

Magden mains continue to be neglected... Are there changes coming in a future pts incremental or should we just give up hope?

Durham

Xsorus wrote: »

A. Defile on Reverb Bash should be longer duration then Defile on Lethal Arrow, One is a situational stun utility ability the other is a bloody spammable.

B. This change forces you to use a Defile based set unless you're running bow, you simply will not have the stamina to keep applying it over and over again since again..Reverb Bash isn't a Spammable.

True!

casparian

Xsorus wrote: »

A. Defile on Reverb Bash should be longer duration then Defile on Lethal Arrow, One is a situational stun utility ability the other is a bloody spammable.

B. This change forces you to use a Defile based set unless you're running bow, you simply will not have the stamina to keep applying it over and over again since again..Reverb Bash isn't a Spammable.

B is absolutely a good thing. Defile should be a specialized utility, not something every stam build can expect to keep up 100%.

Left4Daud

Please consider leaving the snare untouched on the Manifestation of Terror morph of the Nightblade Shadow ability, Aspect of Terror.

This morph is the only reliable skill in my toolkit as a Nightblade tank to properly handle Thurvokun's double Shalk heavy attack in Veteran Fang Lair hard mode. Fear is already an unreliable CC in PVE but this ability has a niche in that the snare allows my Nightblade tank to get through this fight by crippling the Shalk's mobility for a significant amount of time. By reducing the snare on this morph to 2 seconds, from 4 seconds I might not be able to comfortably handle this mechanic.

I think the snare could stay as 4 seconds on this morph. Concerning PVP, the Nightblades traps are a visual symbol on the ground, you should maybe be punished for triggering them.

I understand the effort to bring all snares in line, but please consider the out-of-the-box, non-meta builds you may be effecting with these balance changes. Bringing a Nightblade tank into vFL hard mode farming runs is already a challenge to justify, this will probably keep me out of that content which truly saddens me.

I mean I'm up for a challenge and adapting but I'm just voicing my opinion here.

Tagging @Tasear since you get the non-meta thing and are good at noting / passing issues along.

Xsorus

casparian wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

A. Defile on Reverb Bash should be longer duration then Defile on Lethal Arrow, One is a situational stun utility ability the other is a bloody spammable.

B. This change forces you to use a Defile based set unless you're running bow, you simply will not have the stamina to keep applying it over and over again since again..Reverb Bash isn't a Spammable.

B is absolutely a good thing. Defile should be a specialized utility, not something every stam build can expect to keep up 100%.

Again.

If you're using Snipe, you keep Defile up 100%
If you're using Dark Flare, you keep defile up 100%
If you're using Crest, you're keeping up 90% of the time
Duroks 100% of the time

Are you going to be spamming Reverb Bash who's only real utility over Shield Charge..is Defile? Nope..You're not..So they've made the one Utility ability in the game that actually has the soul purpose of applying that utility shittier then every other ability that applies in the game.

Xsorus

Also let me say, and you can quote me on this...100% next patch they'll be nerfing Healing because of Complaints.

It's going to take one month of people dealing with Nightblades or Stamina Sorcs for example or Templars with access the current Defile Changes before people start demanding healing be nerfed.

usmcjdking

WW changes look really good on paper. The howl cost reduction is really nice and the buff to Feeding Frenzy is really nice as well.

The only thing I don't care for is devour. I actually liked how it worked before - I just didn't like what it did. Revert it to a 4 sec cast time and make it give a giant buff (major berserk) for X amount of time.

Doctordarkspawn

Xsorus wrote: »

Also let me say, and you can quote me on this...100% next patch they'll be nerfing Healing because of Complaints.

It's going to take one month of people dealing with Nightblades or Stamina Sorcs for example or Templars with access the current Defile Changes before people start demanding healing be nerfed.

That'll kill the game.

Drdeath20

Wow templars actually got a buff!

Radiant destruction might actually be worth the price of a channel execute.

The ward change is so-so but better than nothing.

Despite the 40% damage nerf to solar barrage this might actually make my bar now that its insta casted. That AOE damage was really only for test dummy parses anyways. Solar barrage with either sweeps or ele weapons...sounds good to me.

jbjondeaueb17_ESO

Syiccal wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Rune Focus:

This ability and its morphs now apply Major Ward, Major Resolve, and all morph effects to you directly for 15 seconds.
Standing within the area of effect now increases the Major Ward and Major Resolve effects by 50%.
Increased the cost of this ability and Restoring Focus to 2700 Magicka from 1890.
Channeled Focus (morph): Increased the cost of this ability to 1891 Magicka from 1080.

Nobody wants this.

I dont want this.

I want this. As a PVE tank you can still stay in the same place if you want; doing so in PVP and in many of the newer dungeons that require movement make it a pain to keep up.

That's a PVP problem.

At the very least, keep the cost the same, remove the buff while standing in the circle. If you must screw us for the sake of PVP just call it a straight update and dont mess with it from there. Because that way everyone benefits, there was no real reason to increase the damn cost. Even with the new ability if you want the extra armor you stay put, the cost increase is what I'm adversed to because there's just no reason for it.

TLDR: Either do the following:

- Reduce cost back to live, remove the amplification of armor, keep all other changes.

- Keep cost increase, but remove the armor amp. Instead, have standing in the focus increase the additional buffs (The Magicka Regen, the Protection, the Healing Taken) by 50%.

Both of these would stay true to what the change is trying to do, adress PVP concerns, and have minimal impact on PVE, or give them something for the low cost armor ability they lost.

it's not a cost increase..the duration is almost twice as long meaning you don't need to recast as often therefore the cost is the same if not slightly cheaper

It's a cost increase for PvE, you only needed to go back inside the rune to refresh your buffs if you were smart enough to use it correctly, it's almost neutral for PvP since for a 100% increase duration you have a 80% cost increase.

jbjondeaueb17_ESO

Xsorus wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

A. Defile on Reverb Bash should be longer duration then Defile on Lethal Arrow, One is a situational stun utility ability the other is a bloody spammable.

B. This change forces you to use a Defile based set unless you're running bow, you simply will not have the stamina to keep applying it over and over again since again..Reverb Bash isn't a Spammable.

B is absolutely a good thing. Defile should be a specialized utility, not something every stam build can expect to keep up 100%.

Again.

If you're using Snipe, you keep Defile up 100%
If you're using Dark Flare, you keep defile up 100%
If you're using Crest, you're keeping up 90% of the time
Duroks 100% of the time

Are you going to be spamming Reverb Bash who's only real utility over Shield Charge..is Defile? Nope..You're not..So they've made the one Utility ability in the game that actually has the soul purpose of applying that utility shittier then every other ability that applies in the game.

If you manage to keep a 100% defile on a player with Dark Flare you're excessively lucky or the player is exceptionally bad.

templesus

So are we all just gonna sit here and pretend like 2h didn’t just get nerfed for the second patch in a row? It is already the slowest, clunkiest, and downright worst weapon for weaving, and now you’re telling me the range just got nerfed so it’ll hit even less?

Here’s what I do to counter a stam build with 2h charging up a heavy next patch: take a step backwards

Here’s what I do to counter a magicka build with lightning staff charging up a heavy next patch: ????

Combat “balance” yet each patch it seems more and more like ZOS is trying to phase stamina out of the game completely and move everyone to magicka and hybrid builds.

Tasear

Left4Daud wrote: »

Please consider leaving the snare untouched on the Manifestation of Terror morph of the Nightblade Shadow ability, Aspect of Terror.

This morph is the only reliable skill in my toolkit as a Nightblade tank to properly handle Thurvokun's double Shalk heavy attack in Veteran Fang Lair hard mode. Fear is already an unreliable CC in PVE but this ability has a niche in that the snare allows my Nightblade tank to get through this fight by crippling the Shalk's mobility for a significant amount of time. By reducing the snare on this morph to 2 seconds, from 4 seconds I might not be able to comfortably handle this mechanic.

I think the snare could stay as 4 seconds on this morph. Concerning PVP, the Nightblades traps are a visual symbol on the ground, you should maybe be punished for triggering them.

I understand the effort to bring all snares in line, but please consider the out-of-the-box, non-meta builds you may be effecting with these balance changes. Bringing a Nightblade tank into vFL hard mode farming runs is already a challenge to justify, this will probably keep me out of that content which truly saddens me.

I mean I'm up for a challenge and adapting but I'm just voicing my opinion here.

Tagging @Tasear since you get the non-meta thing and are good at noting / passing issues along.

I will pass concerns along. Though some questions have you tried Have you tried timestop, volcanic rune, turn undead. Just some considerations.