PVP has never been more unbalanced, more broken

Feanor

datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »

Weesacs wrote: »

Magicka sorcs since the last update definately need looked at. I extensively play BGs and recently its just been full of sorcs doing the following:

- Magicka sorcs running Zaans waiting for proc with light attacks then streak + dawnbreaker burst.
- Magicka sorcs pet builds - you cannot get close to them due to targetting the pets and when you do they just hide behind their pets again, use their pet heals or streak.
- Magicka sorcs doing 20+ kills in death match when everyone else is struggling to get 10+ due to their execute.
- Magicka sorcs streak away into the distance when the going get tough.
- Magicka sorcs having great shields and doing insane damage.
- High ranking PvPers changing to Magicka sorcs as they seem to be the current PvP meta.

I'm not usually one for complaining on the forums but they definitely need looked at as they are currently too strong in this update.

PS there also seems to be a distinct lack of stamina players in BGs as well ... the recent update to two-handers appears to be contributing to the problems as well.

Every time I think to myself "magsorcs aren't that bad, I beat them all the time" I go on my magsorc alt and play 2 BGs and get 50 kills (no exaggeration) and then I remember why people main them. EZ mode.

It’s not the class fault that the scoring system in Deathmatch isn’t really well implemented. If you tie scoring to damage done the picture would change very quickly.

schwarzman1

Lol

Wycks

I guess you weren't around when mag dk vamps could 1v50 (not exaggerating). So worse..no, not great though.

Joy_Division

Gprime31 wrote: »

WRONG!!!!! Remember when proc sets could Crit??

Yep. The game was still better balanced then, not to mention CC break actually worked sometimes.

Waffennacht

Joy_Division wrote: »

Gprime31 wrote: »

WRONG!!!!! Remember when proc sets could Crit??

Yep. The game was still better balanced then, not to mention CC break actually worked sometimes.

Nah, that was some broken BS. There is no comparing what... 25k (after BS) with a hard CC, 1 GCD, burst.

No set proc combinations can provide 50K tooltip single GCD burst now

Feanor

Waffennacht wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Gprime31 wrote: »

WRONG!!!!! Remember when proc sets could Crit??

Yep. The game was still better balanced then, not to mention CC break actually worked sometimes.

Nah, that was some broken BS. There is no comparing what... 25k (after BS) with a hard CC, 1 GCD, burst.

No set proc combinations can provide 50K tooltip single GCD burst now

The Viper and Camo Hunter era wasn’t much fun, I agree.

Ranger209

Weesacs wrote: »

Magicka sorcs since the last update definately need looked at. I extensively play BGs and recently its just been full of sorcs doing the following:

- Magicka sorcs running Zaans waiting for proc with light attacks then streak + dawnbreaker burst.
- Magicka sorcs pet builds - you cannot get close to them due to targetting the pets and when you do they just hide behind their pets again, use their pet heals or streak.
- Magicka sorcs doing 20+ kills in death match when everyone else is struggling to get 10+ due to their execute.
- Magicka sorcs streak away into the distance when the going get tough.
- Magicka sorcs having great shields and doing insane damage.
- High ranking PvPers changing to Magicka sorcs as they seem to be the current PvP meta.

I'm not usually one for complaining on the forums but they definitely need looked at as they are currently too strong in this update.

PS there also seems to be a distinct lack of stamina players in BGs as well ... the recent update to two-handers appears to be contributing to the problems as well.

Wasn't it last update or the one before that it was all stamblades? Maybe battlegrounds need to be looked at.

ChunkyCat

By this time next year, after the next update chapter whatever you call it comes out, people will be complaining about something from that update.

Then there will be people saying “it’s not as bad as it used to be. Remember Sloads?!”

What a time to be alive.

Hutch679

If you're not running a spin to win stam sorc or a proc set mag sorc, do you really even play pvp? By far the most obnoxious class at the moment.

Ender1310

I thought last patch was pretty balanced. Maybe ranges magica needed a bit of a buff.
I'm not sure what they were thinking adding un dodgable cc upping bleed damage and adding unmitigated damage. At first glance it looks like an attempt to balance the ranged cc. In retrospect it hurt heavy armor tank types with nowhere to go the most I think.
I'm just not sure what they were thinking.

ezeepeezee

Ender1310 wrote: »

I thought last patch was pretty balanced. Maybe ranges magica needed a bit of a buff.
I'm not sure what they were thinking adding un dodgable cc upping bleed damage and adding unmitigated damage. At first glance it looks like an attempt to balance the ranged cc. In retrospect it hurt heavy armor tank types with nowhere to go the most I think.
I'm just not sure what they were thinking.

they weren't

Ender1310

I'll agree to all who say that the impression you get in pvp is 1 cc after another and a broken cc immunity mechanic. It feels like old wow where you literally mashed your cc as a horde and killed pple in a few seconds.

Elsterchen

Always look on the bright side:
- doors function perfectly
- the risk of beeing send to the sky and fall down again is minimal
- no more mosquitos or deer in cyro taking your attention (or induce lag)
- you actually can enter cyrodiil (... until next midyear meyham clutters portlines again)

davey1107

My least favorite period was “wrecking blowgate”. It wasn’t technically the worst ability to fight back, but having all the DKs spinning around in circles with wham wham WHAM got old.

Thogard

davey1107 wrote: »

My least favorite period was “wrecking blowgate”. It wasn’t technically the worst ability to fight back, but having all the DKs spinning around in circles with wham wham WHAM got old.

That was right after mag DKs with perma bats IIRC.

grannas211

Hutch679 wrote: »

If you're not running a spin to win stam sorc or a proc set mag sorc, do you really even play pvp? By far the most obnoxious class at the moment.

Yeah you play on a StamNB

IZZEFlameLash

Elsterchen wrote: »

Always look on the bright side:
- doors function perfectly
- the risk of beeing send to the sky and fall down again is minimal
- no more mosquitos or deer in cyro taking your attention (or induce lag)
- you actually can enter cyrodiil (... until next midyear meyham clutters portlines again)

If this is the bright side the game has. The game is in such a sorry state. Lol

Elsterchen

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

Always look on the bright side:
- doors function perfectly
- the risk of beeing send to the sky and fall down again is minimal
- no more mosquitos or deer in cyro taking your attention (or induce lag)
- you actually can enter cyrodiil (... until next midyear meyham clutters portlines again)

If this is the bright side the game has. The game is in such a sorry state. Lol

I knew I should have added...

White wabbit

Too many troll groups

MakoFore

the game needs an MO and a mission statement to improve not only its PR but to give a baseline of what the game is shooting for . such as:

1. skill should take priorotiy over gear in terms of power and damage. i.e a set should not be so strong - it carries a player.
2. invidivual players should have opporunity to surive in 1vX situations or escape , if played well.
3. each major CC, snare- channel- -proc set MUST have a counter. each set that is strong- must have a real COST. EG - molag kena- one of the sets you guys actually designed well. its balanced.
4. CC;s and SNARES, IMMOBILIZATIONS- MUST not stack- esp when one has immunity
5. each class must have inherent strengths- AND weaknesses- that gear can only subside- but not remove. (now we re seeing DK;s with better speed than stam sorcs, more healing like a templar- and oh theyre still DK's. gear must not be so strong that it removes inherent clas defining characteristings
6. teamwork and co-ordination should be able to outplay raw damage output and nubmers- ie. skills > zergs
7. all classes should have equal potential to perform as a DPS and get kills . IE - mag sorcs should not dominate the leaderboards on account of a player spamming fury - one button a whole game.
8. gear must not be so strong that it removes inherent clas defining characteristings
9. the PTS should be a dynamic testing ground for these changes- so that rather than whacking with a wood every month- you are putting every day (to use the terrible golfing analagy you yourself used in desrcribing your appraoch. and yeah - still no closer to the hole. just overshooting it by a mile every time. )
10. there should be diversity in classes, builds, and playstyles in pvp AND pve. each with inherent strenghts AND weaknesses.


just a short list- barely the tip of the iceberg- but ZOS has never even come close to addressing this game in terms of what it should to be. and what it could be- nor what it WANTS it to be. unless you have a goal for what balance means- how can you understand what it looks like. to quote Alcast- "wrobel has no clue man, no idea".

dont be shutting this down for unproductive comments zos- this is about as productive as you guys have been in terms of addressing balance- ever. the fact you guys stick your heads in the sand when it comes to this is a joke. put your 4 combat balance designers in there against 4 noobs with sloads- and you ll understand what we endure every day.

IMHO - ZOS should have their own MO PINNED to the top of the forums and to their designers heads so they get it in their heads what theyre doing everyday.

MakoFore

i do take back what i said. there was the viper days..that was hell. but tbh- that was 2 years ago- this feels worse- you expect a child to *** its pants- but seeing an adult shite itself while farting in public? thats what zos is doing to its game right now.

Hammy01

TequilaFire wrote: »

If you will notice he compensated for lack of LOS by jumping to avoid ground attacks and make himself a harder target by keeping his momentum up.
Probably why jumping while in combat should cost stamina.

Xbox EU is fullll of bunny hoppers.. it is very annoying .

Would be funny if they calculated item weight and the heavier you were the less you could jump.. in other words if you want to bunny hop all over the place then you would need to play naked!! I mean your character would need to be naked .

Yamakaziing

I mean I can tell you what’s going on here. They are scamming you. I’ve told many people... as soon as they took away my disorienting spear I knew they were only making this game for profit and for their default invincible raids. It’s all about exploiting broken/op sets. There are plenty of great build out there that should be very effective but do nothing because certain people don’t want to lose to it. It’s very sad is right. How they’ve changed an amazing game into this chaotic mess. Fire balistas useless because raids didn’t want to die to them anymore. it’s pathetic. All the changes they have made is doing nothing but helping these blobs each hold their own campaign. Vivec is basically the same blobs and zergs taking turns. EP owns Vivec right now and will for a while I bet. A desperate attempt to remove certain player influencers destroys the game

Swimguy

changing the scoring in the game isnt gonna change weather the class is op or not..... I can go 40/2 with 1 million damage does that mean the class is balanced because i did the work myself?

if you are wondering i wasnt on magsorc but what im getting at is the principle behind it.

Amdar_Godkiller

Xsorus wrote: »

Remember when you could run Twin Sister set and apply a massive bleed just by blocking that had unlimited range, no cooldown?

Now you can do it with twin sister, swarm mother and sload. LOL

Swimguy

MakoFore wrote: »

the game needs an MO and a mission statement to improve not only its PR but to give a baseline of what the game is shooting for . such as:

1. skill should take priorotiy over gear in terms of power and damage. i.e a set should not be so strong - it carries a player.
2. invidivual players should have opporunity to surive in 1vX situations or escape , if played well.
3. each major CC, snare- channel- -proc set MUST have a counter. each set that is strong- must have a real COST. EG - molag kena- one of the sets you guys actually designed well. its balanced.
4. CC;s and SNARES, IMMOBILIZATIONS- MUST not stack- esp when one has immunity
5. each class must have inherent strengths- AND weaknesses- that gear can only subside- but not remove. (now we re seeing DK;s with better speed than stam sorcs, more healing like a templar- and oh theyre still DK's. gear must not be so strong that it removes inherent clas defining characteristings
6. teamwork and co-ordination should be able to outplay raw damage output and nubmers- ie. skills > zergs
7. all classes should have equal potential to perform as a DPS and get kills . IE - mag sorcs should not dominate the leaderboards on account of a player spamming fury - one button a whole game.
8. gear must not be so strong that it removes inherent clas defining characteristings
9. the PTS should be a dynamic testing ground for these changes- so that rather than whacking with a wood every month- you are putting every day (to use the terrible golfing analagy you yourself used in desrcribing your appraoch. and yeah - still no closer to the hole. just overshooting it by a mile every time. )
10. there should be diversity in classes, builds, and playstyles in pvp AND pve. each with inherent strenghts AND weaknesses.


just a short list- barely the tip of the iceberg- but ZOS has never even come close to addressing this game in terms of what it should to be. and what it could be- nor what it WANTS it to be. unless you have a goal for what balance means- how can you understand what it looks like. to quote Alcast- "wrobel has no clue man, no idea".

dont be shutting this down for unproductive comments zos- this is about as productive as you guys have been in terms of addressing balance- ever. the fact you guys stick your heads in the sand when it comes to this is a joke. put your 4 combat balance designers in there against 4 noobs with sloads- and you ll understand what we endure every day.

IMHO - ZOS should have their own MO PINNED to the top of the forums and to their designers heads so they get it in their heads what theyre doing everyday.

yeah honestly i agree 100%. except you forgot long time bugs like the bg resource drain bug.

DeadlyRecluse

"PVP has never been more unbalanced, more broken"

Remember when guilds would intentionally crash the server by casting healing springs at the gates?
Remember when meteor on the stairs of a keep (or any equivalent incline) could instakill you via fall damage?
Remember when it was possible to have almost 100% uptime on batswarm?
Remember nonsensical ground oils?
Remember when 2-3x stamina procs instadropped anyone under 30k HP?
Remember taking obscene amounts of damage from glitched camo hunter or rearming trap?

There are issues in the game. Performance is not ideal. Some skills, classes, and sets, are overtuned. Scattershot is a bad joke.

But it's faaaar from the most unbalanced or broken the game has ever been.

GreenSoup2HoT

Always fun to come back to the forums to see nothing changes when it comes to patch updates. People need to wake up. Zenimax is milking this game until it dies. Ive moved on. The game has been going downhill after Imperial City.

The-Baconator

Joy_Division wrote: »

Gprime31 wrote: »

WRONG!!!!! Remember when proc sets could Crit??

Yep. The game was still better balanced then, not to mention CC break actually worked sometimes.

Because an unavoidable +25k burst that can come from stealth on a non gank build to instakill you is more balanced than a set that gives out a unreasistable <1k a sec dot... Agree with the CC comment though.

As for the topic in general, I get complaints about balance but for everyone to say it's worse than it's ever been is ludicrous. Ignoring things that were beyond busted leading up to console launch, there was bugged camo hunter one shotting players with caltrops, dawnbreaker literally oneshotting every vampire that wasn't blocking, sorcs that could run BoL and literally kite +10 pedestrian players with 100% reliability if they weren't terrible themselves, bugged malubeth, busted vitality + mending + (fixed)malu stacking + sets like Reactive + heavy being insanely strong innately -> The REAL tank meta, the aprocalpse, ubiquitous one-shot ganks, original + the next three iterations of destro ult, etc

I'm not saying PvP is anywhere close to perfectly balanced by any means but it's hard to argue that any of the above is representative of a more balanced environment than we have now.

ATomiX96

Qbiken wrote: »

You sure about that?
Love this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UN3IdgssMwo

back in the days when the game was actually fun and not only populated by zerglings spamming light attacks and meteors

sypher, kingrichard and other bigger streamers left the game for a reason