Low Pop Bonus? Vivec PC NA

frozywozy

PenguinInACan wrote: »

The "bleakers situation" is a pretty bad example of AD's "late night" guild presence. There were probably two 8-12 man guild groups and a bunch of solos that stayed at bleakers.

No. 75% of the AD faction was at Bleakers. That is around 50 to 60 players. I was there are 4:00am EST getting my third Grand Overlord and I saw very clearly what happened.

I was in one of the groups that was there when the farming was getting started and we left after seeing EP and DC start ignoring each other and pushing south. leaving 16-24 people (when we left) up north fighting however many EP/DC stayed.

Yep, Dracarys sees that all the time whenever we go Faregyl, Roebeck or Ash. Entire AD guilds avoid us to push Arrius.

Anazasi

Vilestride wrote: »

Enlighten us zyk. How would not playing for EP suddenly lead to 'good fights' by your definition?

When there are only maybe 3 competitive guilds in the game statements like "top guilds mostly fight PUGs" only warrant the response "no sh#t"

And I am absolutely certain that having drac create their little gravity wells in AD territory, helps to even out the scores.

Rin_Senya

PenguinInACan wrote: »

First, you don't stay in pugs, pugs stay in you, no matter how hard you try shake them in a keep defense.

if this is an issue in your group then you can look at things specifically to combat it as a group and leading style. For example maybe your health is too low and/or not enough healers. Maybe your leaders positioning could be improved. Perhaps you need more control of your enemies.

PenguinInACan wrote: »

Second, "easily counter-able" is debatable IMO for time stop unless you have optimal group comp support.

Without the right group comp, in a keep where you don't want the flags to flip (so no upstairs runs for 20 minutes), fighting 10 (in your example) vs 30, after you set down siege on a breach and they inevitably breach anyway because they have basically unlimited respawns/camps with that many people, in the current meta of siege stacking, against 50% pugs and 50% ungrouped decent PvP-ers, what's the play?

Time stop is just another CC, sure its a bit laggy to break free from but so are many CC's in the game. It doesn't increase the amount you can be CC'd from. I don't see too much of a problem with it.
Not optimal group composition is a problem to solve on your side. It's exactly the problem that @frozywozy was referring to and that's the answer to your question. Get the right group comp, get people to play right classes or invite people that actually interested in group game play and want to play them (including training them up if required).

Overall if you are having problems with your group in a specific scenario you should be working with your group members to look to overcome those issue. Watch other groups, question, improve. Going to a doctor for a pill to remove the problem isn't as effective as preventing the problem from occurring at its cause.

Slowbromance

I'm just gonna say I play AD PC NA Vivec knowing daily when I log in that it will be a challenge. I've been playing a year now, and I'm still learning plenty and testing different play styles.

I'd say the biggest challenge for AD is rallying. The leaders we do have do it well, but it's burning them out. I've been trying to pick up and lead more in my own guild due to this and see what it's like for them in the driver seat.

A lot of group/guild leads on AD get scrutinized for their plays when things start to go sour on the map. Especially in zone. While facts are facts, morale suffers greatly on AD faction as well as respect. I think we lost one of our prime demoralizers from zone recently though, so that will help our newcomers' experiences. lol

Agrippa_Invisus

Slowbromance wrote: »

I think we lost one of our prime demoralizers from zone recently though, so that will help our newcomers' experiences. lol

I hope, at the very least, it's a marginal improvement.

zyk

Vilestride wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

Who is this AD you speak of? AD isn't a sentient entity of any kind. It's not a collective. AD is the name of a team. AD can't make itself more or less appealing because it doesn't have that capability. No faction does. AD doesn't have an owner that can hire a new general manager who can hire a new coach and sign better players.

I have noted many times that the ultimate problem is that EP is the most attractive destination for competitive-minded players -- and even casuals who can't stand losing. Again, we basically agree here.

AD isn't unattractive because of a fault inherent to the faction. It's just the way the game evolved socially based on countless factors like who became friends, who became enemies, who quit and who stayed.

Yes, it is a collective, it's exactly that. AD IS its major guilds, its active and prominent players, its loud voices (on the forums and in game). AD is you, the OP, Iskra, Fantasia, Omni, DiG, Ruin, DomK so on so forth. As is the same for the other factions.

It is a collective in the loosest sense of the word, perhaps, in the same sense we are both part of the human collective. But in a practical sense, no, AD is not truly a collective. There is no authority whatsoever outside of individual guilds and groups.

I certainly doubt the VAST majority of players who have played AD would accept Iskra as any kind of leader, nor myself for that matter. AD is just the name of a team.

Though I err on the side of loyalty and commitment, if AD was in the position that EP has been over the course of the past year or so, I would switch teams without doubt. I would not find it gratifying in any way.

Really, AD, DC and EP mean as much at this point in ESO as teams Red and Blue in Team Fortress 2. There is no AD nation, even if there are loyal players willing to endure hardship that others were not.

Vilestride wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

What responsibility do we have as players to correct the current imbalance? We have total responsibility because we can reasonably presume ZOS will not provide a solution. If we don't fix it, then who will?

No, players, by definition, have 0 responsibility here because we have no duty to, nor control over other players. The only party here that does have responsibility is ZoS. Is it reasonable to presume they will provide a solution? No, you're right, we can derive this from past action (or lack of). Is it reasonable to have expected them to? yes, because it's part of the service we pay for. The distinction is subtle but it's there.

We all have a responsibility to do what we can to further our individual and mutual goals. If there are players truly concerned about competitive parity, then the onus is on them to do something about it because no one else will.

Unfortunately, there are too many players content with the status quo -- such as the EP small groups that farm AD randoms at resources pretty much every play session, regardless of what is happening elsewhere on the map. You probably know who they are. When I play, I don't mind that myself because I actually enjoy the challenge of fighting these groups. I don't bring the issue up here for my own benefit. If I cared only about myself, I could just go elsewhere on the map if it bothered me. But I recognize it is toxic to the health of the game.

Though the problem can be observed in the ranks of Drac as you have noted, it is an even greater issue at a small and medium group level. I've seen so many players start with AD, L2P and then switch sides to either the EP or DC small/medium scale scenes. While there may be map parity during prime time, there isn't necessarily combat parity at small scale levels.

IxSTALKERxI

I've been leadin a group of 3-7 ish from around 1-2am EST starting this week. About 50% venatus and then the rest friends of friends to fill the numbers. Nothing too serious though. Mainly just for fun with mag dk's. A few AD follow us around of course. Fights have been decent, havn't needed to reroll from the Mag DK's yet, hopefully it stays that way haha.

I wouldn't wanna be an inexperienced AD player playing this patch though, that's for sure... This meta is pretty bad lol.

Elong

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

I've been leadin a group of 3-7 ish from around 1-2am EST starting this week. About 50% venatus and then the rest friends of friends to fill the numbers. Nothing too serious though. Mainly just for fun with mag dk's. A few AD follow us around of course. Fights have been decent, havn't needed to reroll from the Mag DK's yet, hopefully it stays that way haha.

I wouldn't wanna be an inexperienced AD player playing this patch though, that's for sure... This meta is pretty bad lol.

Have loved running into your groups, well love is the wrong word, that multiple Standard lockdown hurts! XD

Ghostbane

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Slowbromance wrote: »

I think we lost one of our prime demoralizers from zone recently though, so that will help our newcomers' experiences. lol

I hope, at the very least, it's a marginal improvement.

Comment of the year.

jaime1982

frozywozy wrote: »

What AD and DC needs is to git gud and stop relying on numbers to overcome their opponents, sad truth.

This is hilarious.

ks888

As someone who has played on all 3 alliances for extended periods of time here's my take.

Having too many competing egos can screw with map play. Doesn't matter what side you're on. If you fight a group that consistently kicks your butt, makes changes, adapt. A lot of blame and accusations of cheating get thrown around when a group loses.

Throughout the years, the top groups have one thing in common: they work hella hard on their builds and comps and when they lose, they step back for a second, reset, make some changes and try again. In addition, they have solid leadership.

If players, especially leaders, are unwilling to learn from fights they lose, they will never improve. AD isn't the only side that has this problem - all 3 factions have some ego issues. If you're ripping your own faction a new one in zone every 5 minutes, or are just generally a debbie downer, no one will respect you or want to work with you to get things done. If you want to rally your pugs to improve, train them, encourage them and show them you are a competent group to follow and you can get a lot done.

Soul_Demon

GlorphNoldorin wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

What AD and DC needs is to git gud and stop relying on numbers to overcome their opponents, sad truth.

You and your mentality is at the root of the problem. EP stacks guilds (VV PM Kush) in prime time and runs around as a faction stack.

I know you might wish this to be the case, but it simply isn't true and the opposite is actively sought out by EP guilds. Each one will play the map for points, that much is true- but don't confuse that with actively running in tandem with one another.

Mazbt

Slowbromance wrote: »

I'm just gonna say I play AD PC NA Vivec knowing daily when I log in that it will be a challenge. I've been playing a year now, and I'm still learning plenty and testing different play styles.

I'd say the biggest challenge for AD is rallying. The leaders we do have do it well, but it's burning them out. I've been trying to pick up and lead more in my own guild due to this and see what it's like for them in the driver seat.

A lot of group/guild leads on AD get scrutinized for their plays when things start to go sour on the map. Especially in zone. While facts are facts, morale suffers greatly on AD faction as well as respect. I think we lost one of our prime demoralizers from zone recently though, so that will help our newcomers' experiences. lol

Those demoralizers you're talking about are a REAL problem. I can think of three off the top of my head that are consistent. They aren't group players, they aren't even good. And yes one has disappeared thankfully.

solo pugging late night early morning (EST) is a hit and miss to me. Primetime group play is lots of fun on AD and as long as 2 or 3 of Fantasia, DK, Omni, TD are online in their full groups AD can keep the hordes at bay for the most part and keep the map kinda even.