The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Should there be sets that resist oblivion damage?
-
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SilverIce58 wrote: »They could rework the Oblivion's Foe crafted set! Here's the current god-awful 5pc bonus:
"(5 items) Increases the damage of your Soul Trap abilities by 100%"
Change to this:
(5 items) Increases the damage of your Soul Trap abilities by 100%. Reduces Oblivion damage taken by 20% and all Oblivion damage inflicted upon you is also inflicted upon your attacker.
This would still be a fairly weak set overall but would provide some alternative counterplay and keep the Oblivion meta somewhat in check.
That's a good idea and I have come up with a way to get around the "can't be resisted" problem. I propose a new set and here is what it is:
Daedric Mirror Set
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
(4 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(5 items) All Oblivion damage dealt to you is also dealt to your attacker.
This would be perfect as you would not be mitigating, avoiding, or lessening the Oblivion damage you are taking. However, the Oblivion damage you are dealt is ALSO dealt to your attacker which resolves the entire issue. Neither party is mitigating anything.
@Knowledge and what happens when both you and your opponent are wearing this set? It keeps getting bounced back and forth til someone dies.
You detonate in a single massive blast that deals 300k Salt damage to everyone in Cyrodiil and the Imperial City.2 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »Oblivion damage has long been a controversial aspect of ESO.
Nope.
Oblivion damage was designed as a specific counter to builds that focus heavily on mitigation. It has a very narrow application, and underperforms in the vast majority of situations.
As Oblivion damage counters shield stacking, and some players like to run with almost no health, and lots of shields, they are easily neutralized by a build that focuses on dealing oblivion damage.
Instead of looking at their build, realizing, "wait a second, maybe I should actually have some health instead of one metric **** ton of shields, they've come to the boards to cry.
Do not believe their tantrums @Knowledge.
Technically you are right but it was really that Zos wanted un-resistible damage in the game.
It was not until a couple years ago they started really doing something with it and created the shield breaker set top deal with shields.
In the past year they have move than double downed on that adding more sets and putting un-resistible damage into the most challenging PvE content in the game with the vHoF and vCR.
It is plain to see that Zos really wants this type of damage in the game. Knowledge should easily see that.
2 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Malacthulhu wrote: »Oblivion damage should have a cost on the user, debuffing their own resistances to deal unresistable damage.
"the imp, unaware of its own odor, paused to catch its breath..and promptly died"
and that is it does reduced damage than other types of damage. Debuffing their damage is not logical. Reducing the damage compared other types of damage is logical.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »Oblivion damage has long been a controversial aspect of ESO.
Nope.
Oblivion damage was designed as a specific counter to builds that focus heavily on mitigation. It has a very narrow application, and underperforms in the vast majority of situations.
As Oblivion damage counters shield stacking, and some players like to run with almost no health, and lots of shields, they are easily neutralized by a build that focuses on dealing oblivion damage.
Instead of looking at their build, realizing, "wait a second, maybe I should actually have some health instead of one metric **** ton of shields, they've come to the boards to cry.
Do not believe their tantrums @Knowledge.
Technically you are right but it was really that Zos wanted un-resistible damage in the game.
It was not until a couple years ago they started really doing something with it and created the shield breaker set top deal with shields.
In the past year they have move than double downed on that adding more sets and putting un-resistible damage into the most challenging PvE content in the game with the vHoF and vCR.
It is plain to see that Zos really wants this type of damage in the game. Knowledge should easily see that.
To be fair, I suspect part of the reason that Sloads and Knight Slayer have popped up is because we've gotten way too good at damage mitigation.
I mean, we've all encountered those unkillable DKs, that just stand there and soak up incoming fire. Hell, I've got a heavy armor Sorc that can soak a terrifying amount of incoming damage in PvP. So, this stuff does need to be there.
There might be better ways to handle Oblivion. And, to be fair, Sloads may be slightly overperforming at present. If it scaled it's damage based on enemy resistances and shields, it might be a little less horrific against squishies. But, yeah, beyond that, this is a bit of counterplay that needs to exist.1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Oblivion damage has long been a controversial aspect of ESO.
Nope.
Oblivion damage was designed as a specific counter to builds that focus heavily on mitigation. It has a very narrow application, and underperforms in the vast majority of situations.
As Oblivion damage counters shield stacking, and some players like to run with almost no health, and lots of shields, they are easily neutralized by a build that focuses on dealing oblivion damage.
Instead of looking at their build, realizing, "wait a second, maybe I should actually have some health instead of one metric **** ton of shields, they've come to the boards to cry.
Do not believe their tantrums @Knowledge.
Technically you are right but it was really that Zos wanted un-resistible damage in the game.
It was not until a couple years ago they started really doing something with it and created the shield breaker set top deal with shields.
In the past year they have move than double downed on that adding more sets and putting un-resistible damage into the most challenging PvE content in the game with the vHoF and vCR.
It is plain to see that Zos really wants this type of damage in the game. Knowledge should easily see that.
To be fair, I suspect part of the reason that Sloads and Knight Slayer have popped up is because we've gotten way too good at damage mitigation.
I mean, we've all encountered those unkillable DKs, that just stand there and soak up incoming fire. Hell, I've got a heavy armor Sorc that can soak a terrifying amount of incoming damage in PvP. So, this stuff does need to be there.
There might be better ways to handle Oblivion. And, to be fair, Sloads may be slightly overperforming at present. If it scaled it's damage based on enemy resistances and shields, it might be a little less horrific against squishies. But, yeah, beyond that, this is a bit of counterplay that needs to exist.
I am not suggesting sloads should not have it's damage reduced slightly. However, this thread concerns the idea of creating resistance to oblivion damage so your comments are more appropriate for a thread on Sloads itself.0 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »I really wish I spent absolutely all of my time PvPing when this game launched, and totally avoided PvE. There was legitimate balance back then. Complaints weren’t that large and only related to random outstanding things that were a bit too strong or what not. Everyone had so much fun and the population so much higher.
Nowadays? What a mess ESO PvP has become.
Yeah, because getting batswarm's ultimate cost down to ~6, and then completely locking Daggerfall out of Cyrodiil by becoming an unkillable vampire god was, 'legitimate balance."
@starkerealm I’m on console so that was never a thing for us. Balance was amazing for a very long time. Summerset is possibly the worst I have ever seen PvP. There’s class balance issues everywhere, sets that are gross and remind us of why Viper was nerfed, and game performance is so poor.
Also I hear from pretty much every PC player I talk to that despite there being some broken mechanics, PvP was a ton of fun back then. There was tons of build diversity, the alliance war was huge and had meaning with large fights in multiple places and tons of small scale skirmishes, and overall it was more fun. Definitely not perfect, but very enjoyable.
If you disagree that’s fine. Nothing to argue here. As a console player though PvP is so bad atm. Battlegrounds has issues but at least it’s still fun. If you run solo the PvP experience in this game is becoming abysmal outside of BGs.Edited by Vaoh on June 16, 2018 11:14AM0 -
Abysswarrior45✭✭✭✭Enough of this adding sets to counter ***. How about they delete oblivion damage from the game, adjust counters to shield stacking like being able to crit shields, and leave it there. Armor should not do work for you.0
-
Aesthier✭✭✭✭✭
Its health damage. To invest in high health is the way to mitigate it. I get hit with this damage too and it hurts, but I don't expect to have a counter for everything in the game.
Well, when you have no ability to counter something or counter play does not exist then you are not really playing a "game".
But there is counter play for this. The issue is some people are having a hard time deciding which thing they want to counter the rock the scissor or the paper.
Coming up with one build that counters "everything" all at once is no better than a build that cannot be countered at all which oblivion damage is not.
@Knowledge
On a side note, I find it intriguing that most of your Discussion Topics scream "Poll Worthy" to me yet you never make them polls instead you design the topic header in a very "either this or that" manner but do not elect to use the poll function.
Why?Edited by Aesthier on June 16, 2018 12:07PM0 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Oblivion damage has long been a controversial aspect of ESO.
Nope.
Oblivion damage was designed as a specific counter to builds that focus heavily on mitigation. It has a very narrow application, and underperforms in the vast majority of situations.
As Oblivion damage counters shield stacking, and some players like to run with almost no health, and lots of shields, they are easily neutralized by a build that focuses on dealing oblivion damage.
Instead of looking at their build, realizing, "wait a second, maybe I should actually have some health instead of one metric **** ton of shields, they've come to the boards to cry.
Do not believe their tantrums @Knowledge.
Technically you are right but it was really that Zos wanted un-resistible damage in the game.
It was not until a couple years ago they started really doing something with it and created the shield breaker set top deal with shields.
In the past year they have move than double downed on that adding more sets and putting un-resistible damage into the most challenging PvE content in the game with the vHoF and vCR.
It is plain to see that Zos really wants this type of damage in the game. Knowledge should easily see that.
To be fair, I suspect part of the reason that Sloads and Knight Slayer have popped up is because we've gotten way too good at damage mitigation.
I mean, we've all encountered those unkillable DKs, that just stand there and soak up incoming fire. Hell, I've got a heavy armor Sorc that can soak a terrifying amount of incoming damage in PvP. So, this stuff does need to be there.
There might be better ways to handle Oblivion. And, to be fair, Sloads may be slightly overperforming at present. If it scaled it's damage based on enemy resistances and shields, it might be a little less horrific against squishies. But, yeah, beyond that, this is a bit of counterplay that needs to exist.
I think Sloads wouldn’t be so broken and terrible for the health of the game if it simply worked differently. It needs to be balanced in a specific way like Knight Slayer’s so that it has use but isn’t outright broken OP.
1. Make it fair - it should not be so detrimental to normal builds but then a joke to high health builds. In other words, Sloads should tick overtime for 15-20% of a player’s health in damage. Strong versus high health/tanky builds, weak vs normal builds. This is exactly why Knight Slayer works this way - it’d be imbalanced otherwise.
2. Make the proc cooldown per target. This makes it significantly less of an “Xv1” set, aka where it’s great for killing a single player but totally garbage vs multiple players. Now it’s fair for everyone. Furthermore it should not stack!
This makes it not so OP vs one player, and weakens less coordinated groups who have multiple players run Sloads. It also means that a high health build won’t get numerous procs on them which would easily melt them away (this would be totally imbalanced). It can also be procced against groups much easier now, so it should not be stackable or else that’d create some gross gameplay.
By doing this all, Sloads becomes a set that essentially functions like Knight Slayer. It’s there, and has uses, but it’s not OP and capable of slaughtering you if you decide to not build with this one set in mind. In other words.... balance.
_______________________________________
Sload’s Semblance (current)
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
(4 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(5 items) Damaging an enemy has a 10% chance to put a Leeching Shadow on them, dealing 853 Oblivion Damage every 1 second for 6 seconds. This effect can occur every 6 seconds.
Sload’s Semblance (new)
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
(4 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(5 items) Dealing damage against Players has a 10% chance to put a Leeching Shadow on them, dealing 3% of their Max Health as Oblivion Damage every 1 second for 6 seconds. This effect can occur every 6 seconds on each target. Only one Leeching Shadow can be active on a target at any time.1 -
Vizikul✭✭✭✭As far as I know oblivion dmg is the counter play to shield stacking magicka characters and now people want a counterplay to the counterplay? So, if they add oblivion resistance, how would one counter a shield stacking player then?Pugging. Pugging all the way to victory.Imperial Dragonknight --- male, stamina, heavy & medium armor, dual wield, one hand and shield, two handed.
Breton Templar --- female, magicka, light armor, restoration staff.
Redguard Warden --- female, stamina, medium armor, bow.
Breton Sorcerer --- male, magicka, light armor, destruction staff.
Imperial Templar --- male, stamina, medium armor, two handed.
Daggerfall Covenant loyalist0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭carebears do love obliviondmg.
the argument of high health countering it is blantantly false/ a strawman. Healing/healthrec counters it.
This is problematic in a sense that combining it with healdebuffs counters it´s counter.Edited by Derra on June 16, 2018 1:18PM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500
