Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »@GrumpyDuckling
i didnt say it needs to change because people dont use quick recovery or blessed cp trees. i said, that people less use those two, since they offer small effects for too many points, while you need to sacrifice defense or damage for it. meanwhile befoul scales very high with defile and only sacrificing some sustain with all the proc sets around is no sacrifice at all.
and now pls elaborate which class really have acces to which of the mending or vitality buffs and compare again.
Please see the first post of the thread, in which I say, "most solo builds can realistically utilize ~8 of these healing buffs/strengthening tactics, if not more," and see the list.
sry but here i just disagree with you.
templars have minor mending
dks have major mending and minor vitality
wardens have major mending
sorcs....nothing
nightblades have minor vitaility and major mending tied to an ultimate
(i am sure, that i forgot something)
there is major mending tied to a resto heavy attack.
now say again how the healing buffs are comon and everyone has access to all those buffs.
but major defile is tied to a lot of skills.
Not sure what you're disagreeing about. Here are 8 realistic healing buffs/strengthening tactics for any build, regardless of class.
Health Recovery
Blessed (champion point node)
Quick Recovery (champion point node)
Elfborn (champion point node) and/or Precise Strikes (champion point node)
Healing can crit (defile does not)
Healing scales with max attribute (defile does not)
Healing scales with spell/weapon damage (defile does not)
Powered Trait (no defiling trait counter)
This is just bare minimum for any build. Most builds are easily capable of more.
Edit: Oh, and if you want to talk about how major defile is tied to a lot of skills, then you also have to consider that healing is available from a lot of skills, and those different healing skills allow you to stack heals on yourself (unlike defile skills, because you can't stack a major debuff on itself from multiple skills).
If you really want to include health regen and that "healing scales with attributes and damage + can crit" thingy you should at least be honest enough to acknowledge that defile is always a X% healing nerf. If my healing should heal for 3k or 4.5k buffed your defile will always take away X%, no matter if critted or not. Therefore it kinda scales with the attributes and stats of your opponent. Your benefit is bigger if their heals are bigger.
And "you can stack multiple sources of healing" also means investing multiple slots, CGDs and resources into it, while a defile affects them all simultaniously. As most of your means to boost healing have high opportunity costs (ritual stone, powered weapons) while e.g. a reverb, incap or snipe have very little opportunity costs in comparison. Same goes for CP, if you even play with them. Healing boosts are in the blue and red tree and scale badly, you give something important up for that. While is the best scaling star and also in the green tree.
ok lets do some math then with the typical healbot class, alright?
if i make any mistakes in my calculation, pls say so.
a typical pvp healbot is in heavy armor, has around 30% crit, 37k magicka and around 2.5k spelldamage on his backbar. this results in a base breath of life of around 10k. with minor and major sorcer he reaches around 3.1k spelldamage and a breath of life tooltip of around 11.2k. now lets take an unbuffed breath of life of 10k as baseline.
a heavy armor magplar has access to the following increasing healing done bonus: 8% from minor mending plus from the cp tree blessed. from passives he gets additional 12% at max when low health. lets assume he has 27 points in blesses, resulting in 7% more healing done. ok now the math: 10k*(1+0.08+0.07)=11500 healing (we leave the 12% out, since it only counts when practically dead). now lets half that, since battlespirit is there: 5750 healing.
ok now we get to the healing received part, where defile comes in too. lets assume our templar has 27 points (7%) into qick recovery and is defiled with basic major defile: 5750*(1+0.07-0.3)=4428 healing, which is already less than the base.
with major and minor defile its 5750*(1+0.07-0.3-0.15)=3565
now the enemy has also a lots in befoul, lets say 100 points (was 55% more defile, right?)
5750*(1+0.07-.465-0.2325)=2142 healing with a breath of life, when the base skill heals for 5k in pvp?
ok now the hardcorecase: templar is fully buffed with around 3.1k spelldamage, with the 12% healing from the pretty much dead passive and does a crit against fully defiled:
11.2k/2=5.6k (after battlespirit)
5600*(1+0.08+0.12+0.07)=7112
7112*1.6=11379 with the crit healing
11379*(1+0.07-0.465-0.2325)=4239....still less than the original tooltip unbuffed in pvp, and this is the healbot class. such a heal has probably around a 30% chance, otherwise its around 2.3k maybe.
so back why defile and befoul is problematic: there are too many sources of defile and its too easy to apply defile (constantly). befoul does more than it should. the counters to defile like healing done and received, so basically major/ minor mending and vitality are not accessible for most of the classes (healer class has only minor mending) and with a decent amount of cps spent into blessed or quick recovery you get not enough to counter.
Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »I've read that part and yet you're completely ignoring that it horribly overshoots. Yes, healbots were/ are an issue. Yes, it was intended to also counter permablockhealcasting troll tanks. All fine and good. Those who build to troll got a counter, nice. But in the process it wrecks everyone who does not invest a substantial part of his build into healing - all with little effort or investment on it's own.
You say you acknowledge that it's percentage based but yet you're still posting stuff like "heals scale with attritbutes and stats", implying that defile does not and is therefore at an disadvantage. But it is not, it's the other way around. Like a proc set, you can invest into health, defense, survivability and still it does the same damage, or in this case, the same % of debuffing. What stops me from putting on several proc sets with everything into health and still annoy the hearthland of Tamriel? Nothing, just like with durok's + Proc X + Proc Y and a huge amount of health. Don't know, be it Sload's and Skoria, or Caluurion and Zaans. Some would call that cheese.
There is so little investment for such a big benefit. If befoul would be in the blue tree, you'd have to make a decision. Higher damage, higher healing or higher debuffing. But it isn't. If major defile wasn't on bread and butter skills like reverb, incap and snipe, which are all nice on their own, but instead on some "subpar" skills that are not tied to instant CCs or on an seemingly overload high damage spammable ult with a buff and a CC or on a high damage skill with one of the longest ranges, you'd have to make a decision. But it isn't. If it wasn't on an AoE no cooldown 5 piece set, it would look different. See, nobody mentions cyrodiils crest. 1v1 it also grants potantially 100% uptime, but it isn't some freaking AoE that procs on taking damage, CyCr isn't a free "I debuff the crap out of y'all without doing anything myself" set.
You can negate so much investment of your opponent in his build without invest much on your own. 1 debuff via 1 skill or set and you can tune down each an every avaible heal your opponent has. If he chooses to slot 6 HoTs, so be it. He gives something up for that. You on the other hand don't, since it get's thrown around like candy. Another point where we disagree.
Tl;dr: add real opportunity costs to such a strong debuff or simply tune it down. But what you call a balanced state isn't achieveable for non-zergers - ironically where defile doesn't really matter anyways.
GrumpyDuckling wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »I've read that part and yet you're completely ignoring that it horribly overshoots. Yes, healbots were/ are an issue. Yes, it was intended to also counter permablockhealcasting troll tanks. All fine and good. Those who build to troll got a counter, nice. But in the process it wrecks everyone who does not invest a substantial part of his build into healing - all with little effort or investment on it's own.
You say you acknowledge that it's percentage based but yet you're still posting stuff like "heals scale with attritbutes and stats", implying that defile does not and is therefore at an disadvantage. But it is not, it's the other way around. Like a proc set, you can invest into health, defense, survivability and still it does the same damage, or in this case, the same % of debuffing. What stops me from putting on several proc sets with everything into health and still annoy the hearthland of Tamriel? Nothing, just like with durok's + Proc X + Proc Y and a huge amount of health. Don't know, be it Sload's and Skoria, or Caluurion and Zaans. Some would call that cheese.
There is so little investment for such a big benefit. If befoul would be in the blue tree, you'd have to make a decision. Higher damage, higher healing or higher debuffing. But it isn't. If major defile wasn't on bread and butter skills like reverb, incap and snipe, which are all nice on their own, but instead on some "subpar" skills that are not tied to instant CCs or on an seemingly overload high damage spammable ult with a buff and a CC or on a high damage skill with one of the longest ranges, you'd have to make a decision. But it isn't. If it wasn't on an AoE no cooldown 5 piece set, it would look different. See, nobody mentions cyrodiils crest. 1v1 it also grants potantially 100% uptime, but it isn't some freaking AoE that procs on taking damage, CyCr isn't a free "I debuff the crap out of y'all without doing anything myself" set.
You can negate so much investment of your opponent in his build without invest much on your own. 1 debuff via 1 skill or set and you can tune down each an every avaible heal your opponent has. If he chooses to slot 6 HoTs, so be it. He gives something up for that. You on the other hand don't, since it get's thrown around like candy. Another point where we disagree.
Tl;dr: add real opportunity costs to such a strong debuff or simply tune it down. But what you call a balanced state isn't achieveable for non-zergers - ironically where defile doesn't really matter anyways.
"You say you acknowledge that it's percentage based but yet you're still posting stuff like 'heals scale with attritbutes and stats', implying that defile does not and is therefore at an disadvantage."
I didn't imply it, I said it (see first post of the thread). Defiling does not scale with attributes and stats, but healing does.
Attribute and stat scaling are one of the many benefits that factor into healing. There are many factors that go into buffing and strengthening healing. To counterbalance all the healing factors, defiling is accessible and scales higher.
GrumpyDuckling wrote: »I know there are some of you who will vehemently disagree with a stance to keep Major Defile and Befoul in its current state, but please take the time to consider the following reason for why Major Defile and Befoul should remain the same, at least for now:
The defiling quartet of Major Defile, Minor Defile, Befoul, and Siphoner has to compete against ~17 ways to buff and/or strengthen healing. Most solo builds can realistically utilize ~8 of these healing buffs/strengthening tactics, if not more:
Major Mending
Minor Mending
Major Vitality
Minor Vitality
Healing Done
Healing Received
Healing Taken
Health Recovery
Blessed (champion point node)
Quick Recovery (champion point node)
Elfborn (champion point node)
Precise Strikes (champion point node)
Healing can crit (defile does not)
Healing scales with max attribute (defile does not)
Healing scales with spell/weapon damage (defile does not)
Ritual Stone (no defiling mundus stone counter)
Powered Trait (no defiling trait counter)
Yes, Major Defile and Minor Defile offer higher percentages and are often easier to access than Major Mending and Minor Mending, and yes the scaling on Befoul is high, but it stands to reason that these decisions were made to create counterbalance that combats the multitude of benefits that factor into healing.
When you consider all of the above, I think it's logical to conclude that ZOS has done a solid job with the current state of defiling in ESO. I hope it remains roughly the same, at least for now.
Edit on 6/13/18 -- Added Major Vitality, Minor Vitality, Blessed, and Quick Recovery to the list.
Joy_Division wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »I know there are some of you who will vehemently disagree with a stance to keep Major Defile and Befoul in its current state, but please take the time to consider the following reason for why Major Defile and Befoul should remain the same, at least for now:
The defiling quartet of Major Defile, Minor Defile, Befoul, and Siphoner has to compete against ~17 ways to buff and/or strengthen healing. Most solo builds can realistically utilize ~8 of these healing buffs/strengthening tactics, if not more:
Major Mending
Minor Mending
Major Vitality
Minor Vitality
Healing Done
Healing Received
Healing Taken
Health Recovery
Blessed (champion point node)
Quick Recovery (champion point node)
Elfborn (champion point node)
Precise Strikes (champion point node)
Healing can crit (defile does not)
Healing scales with max attribute (defile does not)
Healing scales with spell/weapon damage (defile does not)
Ritual Stone (no defiling mundus stone counter)
Powered Trait (no defiling trait counter)
Yes, Major Defile and Minor Defile offer higher percentages and are often easier to access than Major Mending and Minor Mending, and yes the scaling on Befoul is high, but it stands to reason that these decisions were made to create counterbalance that combats the multitude of benefits that factor into healing.
When you consider all of the above, I think it's logical to conclude that ZOS has done a solid job with the current state of defiling in ESO. I hope it remains roughly the same, at least for now.
Edit on 6/13/18 -- Added Major Vitality, Minor Vitality, Blessed, and Quick Recovery to the list.
This is all on paper. There is zero chance in a competitive PvP fight on a competitive PvP build that actually wants to kill people is going to have all those healing multipliers.
Meanwhile anyone can slap on a disease enchant or better yet just put on a durok's bane set (easier still with jewelry transmorg) and put 100% uptime with a ridiculously scaling befoul from CP which requires zero sacrifice from offensive CPs. Or worse yet, any NB without any gear from an overloaded cheap ultimate that also stuns me and amps their damage.
Point: it is too easy trivial to delete an opponent's healing without much sacrifice. You may deem this necessary because you hate "heal =bots" but defile destroys people who aren't healbots, which results in the very thing you don't want to see: more block builds that invest so much into damage because if they don;t they're dead.
Moreover, it absoultely makes me want to throw my computer out the window that my magplars healing has been absolutely gutted without defile/befoul, all my good defense skills have been taken away, leaving me with little choice but to rely on block and reactive healing and there is stiil this vendetta out there by people who hate "healbots." How exactly am I supposed to defend myself without healing? That's all my class does! And as far as that list goes, you can add 20 more things to it but in actually Cyordiil (or worse, Batttelgrounds where my stats are crap and I don't have the healing amps that were stolen from my class because of the champion system, this is what my "healbot" is relegated as the only means to defend itself:
and
And still ZOS keeps nerfing Breath of Life. Can I have back blinding Flashes please?
Playing while perma-defile is to the point where it's log out, I'm not dealing with this crap anymore.
GrumpyDuckling wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »I know there are some of you who will vehemently disagree with a stance to keep Major Defile and Befoul in its current state, but please take the time to consider the following reason for why Major Defile and Befoul should remain the same, at least for now:
The defiling quartet of Major Defile, Minor Defile, Befoul, and Siphoner has to compete against ~17 ways to buff and/or strengthen healing. Most solo builds can realistically utilize ~8 of these healing buffs/strengthening tactics, if not more:
Major Mending
Minor Mending
Major Vitality
Minor Vitality
Healing Done
Healing Received
Healing Taken
Health Recovery
Blessed (champion point node)
Quick Recovery (champion point node)
Elfborn (champion point node)
Precise Strikes (champion point node)
Healing can crit (defile does not)
Healing scales with max attribute (defile does not)
Healing scales with spell/weapon damage (defile does not)
Ritual Stone (no defiling mundus stone counter)
Powered Trait (no defiling trait counter)
Yes, Major Defile and Minor Defile offer higher percentages and are often easier to access than Major Mending and Minor Mending, and yes the scaling on Befoul is high, but it stands to reason that these decisions were made to create counterbalance that combats the multitude of benefits that factor into healing.
When you consider all of the above, I think it's logical to conclude that ZOS has done a solid job with the current state of defiling in ESO. I hope it remains roughly the same, at least for now.
Edit on 6/13/18 -- Added Major Vitality, Minor Vitality, Blessed, and Quick Recovery to the list.
This is all on paper. There is zero chance in a competitive PvP fight on a competitive PvP build that actually wants to kill people is going to have all those healing multipliers.
Meanwhile anyone can slap on a disease enchant or better yet just put on a durok's bane set (easier still with jewelry transmorg) and put 100% uptime with a ridiculously scaling befoul from CP which requires zero sacrifice from offensive CPs. Or worse yet, any NB without any gear from an overloaded cheap ultimate that also stuns me and amps their damage.
Point: it is too easy trivial to delete an opponent's healing without much sacrifice. You may deem this necessary because you hate "heal =bots" but defile destroys people who aren't healbots, which results in the very thing you don't want to see: more block builds that invest so much into damage because if they don;t they're dead.
Moreover, it absoultely makes me want to throw my computer out the window that my magplars healing has been absolutely gutted without defile/befoul, all my good defense skills have been taken away, leaving me with little choice but to rely on block and reactive healing and there is stiil this vendetta out there by people who hate "healbots." How exactly am I supposed to defend myself without healing? That's all my class does! And as far as that list goes, you can add 20 more things to it but in actually Cyordiil (or worse, Batttelgrounds where my stats are crap and I don't have the healing amps that were stolen from my class because of the champion system, this is what my "healbot" is relegated as the only means to defend itself:
and
And still ZOS keeps nerfing Breath of Life. Can I have back blinding Flashes please?
Playing while perma-defile is to the point where it's log out, I'm not dealing with this crap anymore.
"This is all on paper. There is zero chance in a competitive PvP fight on a competitive PvP build that actually wants to kill people is going to have all those healing multipliers."
I'm not sure with who or what you're arguing about with the above statement. No one suggested that a competitive PVP build that actually wants to kill people is going to have "all" of the listed healing multipliers. The first post of the thread clearly states that out of the ~17 healing buffs/strengthening tactics, "most solo builds can realistically utilize ~8 of these healing buffs/strengthening tactics, if not more." The entire point of the thread is that there are 17 potential healing buffs/strengthening tactics that 4 potential defiling tactics have to try to keep in check.
On to what you refer to as your point, where you say "it is too easy trivial to delete an opponent's healing without much sacrifice."
The statement about "delet[ing] an opponent's healing without much sacrifice" is both hyperbole and a subjective statement. No, healing is not deleted and sacrifices are certainly made. Some examples of sacrifices that are made include:
1) More points into befoul means less points for sustain, block, roll dodge, and other green nodes.
2) Your example of Durok's Bane means that a player is sacrificing a 5 piece bonus that will only apply when/if attacked by an enemy.
3) Your example of a disease enchant means that the player bases the defile on an RNG percentage, which upon activation last for 4 seconds, and then hits a cooldown period.
4) Your example of the Nightblade ultimate focuses in on a single target ultimate attack. This is where we get subjective because I think this is sacrifice by the player using it. I'd much rather face a dodgeable, and often predictable single target ultimate, than an undodgeable AOE ultimate while an enemy spams a gap closer with an immovable pot active.
I definitely understand that you're frustrated with more than just the defile (as you expressed your temptation to throw a computer out the window when referencing class heal decisions), but the 17 potential healing buffs/strengthening tactics vs. the 4 potential defiling tactics point to healing vs. defiling being in a good place, for now.
Edit: Clarity
Ragnarock41 wrote: »Healbots are overperforming, defile is overperforming.
And everyone in the middle is just screwed basically.
GrumpyDuckling wrote: »
On to what you refer to as your point, where you say "it is too easy trivial to delete an opponent's healing without much sacrifice."
The statement about "delet[ing] an opponent's healing without much sacrifice" is both hyperbole and a subjective statement. No, healing is not deleted and sacrifices are certainly made. Some examples of sacrifices that are made include:
1) More points into befoul means less points for sustain, block, roll dodge, and other green nodes.
2) Your example of Durok's Bane means that a player is sacrificing a 5 piece bonus that will only apply when/if attacked by an enemy.
3) Your example of a disease enchant means that the player bases the defile on an RNG percentage, which upon activation last for 4 seconds, and then hits a cooldown period.
4) Your example of the Nightblade ultimate focuses in on a single target ultimate attack. This is where we get subjective because I think this is sacrifice by the player using it. I'd much rather face a dodgeable, and often predictable single target ultimate, than an undodgeable AOE ultimate while an enemy spams a gap closer with an immovable pot active.
I definitely understand that you're frustrated with more than just the defile (as you expressed your temptation to throw a computer out the window when referencing class heal decisions), but the 17 potential healing buffs/strengthening tactics vs. the 4 potential defiling tactics point to healing vs. defiling being in a good place, for now.
Edit: Clarity
GrumpyDuckling wrote: »
CUZ maybe for 30 points u get triple the amount of Blessing star? MAYBE?
Healing buffs:
Minor Mending: 8%
Major Mending: 25%
Minor Vitality: 8%
Major Vitality: 30%
Rapid Mending: 8%
Quick to Heal: 10%
CP total increase: up to 30%
Healing debuffs:
Minor Defile: 15%
Major Defile: 30%
CP total increase: up to 55%
There is nothing wrong with the current balance of defile in terms of strength. The issue is that classes such as stamblade and stamplar struggle for strong healing buffs, and defile is too accessible. The potential is certainly way higher for healing, but the accessibility is too high for Defile. Major Defile should be strong, but linked to ultimates and not normal abilities. The duration of Duroks Bane should also be decreased.
Now it gets ridiculous....nightblades make a sacrifice with slotting incap....
About everything else you were saying with „there are so many hots and mechanics to make healing better“: if you play like this, you arent competitive anymore. Like the statement of having minor and major mending on your class based on gear and backbar weapon...you arent competitive wearing a heal staff on most of the classes. Minor mending from gear, you are joking right? Healing taken bonus from sets, so sanctuary set or something with a healing taken bonus...again you arent competitive anymore. Powered trait and ritual mundus...not competitive.
Everything is not competitive which „could“ increase healing. There is too much sacrifice compared to slotting duroks bane, incap or putting points into befoul, because with both you are competitive with pretty much zero drawback.
GrumpyDuckling wrote: »Now it gets ridiculous....nightblades make a sacrifice with slotting incap....
About everything else you were saying with „there are so many hots and mechanics to make healing better“: if you play like this, you arent competitive anymore. Like the statement of having minor and major mending on your class based on gear and backbar weapon...you arent competitive wearing a heal staff on most of the classes. Minor mending from gear, you are joking right? Healing taken bonus from sets, so sanctuary set or something with a healing taken bonus...again you arent competitive anymore. Powered trait and ritual mundus...not competitive.
Everything is not competitive which „could“ increase healing. There is too much sacrifice compared to slotting duroks bane, incap or putting points into befoul, because with both you are competitive with pretty much zero drawback.
Yes, I expressed earlier that I would rather face a telegraphed, predictable, dodgeable, blockable, single target Nightblade ultimate rather than a large, undodgeable, multi-target Eye of the Storm ultimate that allows the player to cast skills and gap close during its duration. You call my opinion and personal preference (which I prefaced by saying it was a subjective stance) "ridiculous," but how does that aid discussion?
I knew when I posted this thread that there would be passionate resistance to my defense of defiling, but vague, general statements such as "you arent competitive wearing a heal staff on most of the classes" and hyperbolic statements such as "Everything is not competitive which 'could' increase healing" don't offer much incentive to consider opposing viewpoints.
Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »Now it gets ridiculous....nightblades make a sacrifice with slotting incap....
About everything else you were saying with „there are so many hots and mechanics to make healing better“: if you play like this, you arent competitive anymore. Like the statement of having minor and major mending on your class based on gear and backbar weapon...you arent competitive wearing a heal staff on most of the classes. Minor mending from gear, you are joking right? Healing taken bonus from sets, so sanctuary set or something with a healing taken bonus...again you arent competitive anymore. Powered trait and ritual mundus...not competitive.
Everything is not competitive which „could“ increase healing. There is too much sacrifice compared to slotting duroks bane, incap or putting points into befoul, because with both you are competitive with pretty much zero drawback.
Yes, I expressed earlier that I would rather face a telegraphed, predictable, dodgeable, blockable, single target Nightblade ultimate rather than a large, undodgeable, multi-target Eye of the Storm ultimate that allows the player to cast skills and gap close during its duration. You call my opinion and personal preference (which I prefaced by saying it was a subjective stance) "ridiculous," but how does that aid discussion?
I knew when I posted this thread that there would be passionate resistance to my defense of defiling, but vague, general statements such as "you arent competitive wearing a heal staff on most of the classes" and hyperbolic statements such as "Everything is not competitive which 'could' increase healing" don't offer much incentive to consider opposing viewpoints.
You do understand that in a topic about defile people will argue about skills that have a defile on it rather than about skills that have perks of their own but not defile? Bringing in things that have not the slightest to do with the topic at hand doesn't aid the discussion too. You put up a smoke screen to veil that Incap is by no means a sacrifice.
I can't remember when I last died to EotS outside of group vs group play. 1v1 I die to incap, much rather to what it brings with it, but never did I get defeated by the destro ult. And to play down the power of incap, largely due to it's de-/buffs/CC rather than the damage, is quite a stretch.
And isn't it a vague, general statement to say "you guys have powered resto staffs as options to balance out defile"? Please show me an up to date solo stam build with a resto staff.
GrumpyDuckling wrote: »Your example of the Nightblade ultimate focuses in on a single target ultimate attack. This is where we get subjective because I think this is sacrifice by the player using it. I'd much rather face a dodgeable, and often predictable single target ultimate, than an undodgeable AOE ultimate while an enemy spams a gap closer with an immovable pot active.
Joy_Division wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »Your example of the Nightblade ultimate focuses in on a single target ultimate attack. This is where we get subjective because I think this is sacrifice by the player using it. I'd much rather face a dodgeable, and often predictable single target ultimate, than an undodgeable AOE ultimate while an enemy spams a gap closer with an immovable pot active.
Oh, that's rich. Please continue telling all of us how Nightblades are making a "sacrifice" to slot and use Incap
With regard to PVE, no thank you! Major and Minor should 100% stack!Ihatenightblades wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »
Healing in pvp is already cut in half. Befoul adds the possibility of 65% heal debuff if used right. So technically abilities like vigor are cut by 115% since your numbers are already cut in half gor healing..
Max heal debuff you should have on a player is 35% minor and major SHOULD NOT STACK.
@GrumpyDuckling
Templars for example only have breath of life to keep them alive.
GrumpyDuckling wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »Your example of the Nightblade ultimate focuses in on a single target ultimate attack. This is where we get subjective because I think this is sacrifice by the player using it. I'd much rather face a dodgeable, and often predictable single target ultimate, than an undodgeable AOE ultimate while an enemy spams a gap closer with an immovable pot active.
Oh, that's rich. Please continue telling all of us how Nightblades are making a "sacrifice" to slot and use Incap
To gain stun, defile, and increased damage against a single opponent by using an often telegraphed, dodgeable, and blockable ultimate, the player is sacrificing a team aiding ultimate, or a multi-target ultimate, or an ultimate that has less counters. It's all about choices.
The same applies in reverse. If a player wants a team aiding, multi-target, less counter-able ultimate, then they sacrifice benefits applied by an ultimate like Death Stroke.