Bleeds, Befoul or Sload?

ak_pvp

Bleeds

I'd say for me it's bleeds, defile, Sload in that orders. Based on my build and preferred game mode.

Took a 7.6k in 4 ticks master bleed. Stacked with heavy weapons and twin blade/blunt.

Anastian

Sloads

rikimm16_ESO wrote: »

Anastian wrote: »

Tried it out. It's downright bonkers because you can consistently reapply it and it effectively reduces self-heals by half.

Hmmm... what?
How does Sloads effectively reduce self-heals by half?

Consider a stamina character that primarily uses Vigor. Apply a dot that is extremely easy to maintain (10% to proc on any damage, so it procs on other dots as well etc) and that cannot be mitigated. Your vigor effectiveness is, at the end of the day, halved just by one set, which makes it difficult to counterplay (in a 1v1 scenario)

Edziu

Sloads

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Biased poll, as there is ALOT more in eso that is Far greater threat and Far more dangerous then the 3 you have mentioned here.

Actually those are the most dangerous.. Oblivion damage goes through all mitigation, bleeds ignore resistance, and defile + befoul cp makes your healing non existent. Idk what other "greater threat" you have in mind but those 3 are the most cancerous offensive things in eso pvp.

all ultimates, is another one, fall damage, the list is very long.
just claiming that 3 things are the greatest and none other exist is just not true.
oblivion damage cant be stoped but if you cast purge on the sloads set D.O.T. it will remove that D.O.T.

here we going again, again and again
just cast purge to remove sload...but before your purge will remove 5 other dots before it will catch to remove sload

BigBadVolk

Bleeds

Overall bleeds are mostly work alone with a sustain or other defensive set, duroks and defiles too sloads alone is "fine" but when you combine all three, well thats terminal cancer over 9000

xeNNNNN

I really wish you added an all of the above vote option.

Simply because they all are overpowered and frustrating but for different reasons.

Duroks enables too much healing negation allowing for players to be carried by healing debuffs rather than actually using their skills appropriately.

Sloads its broken because it melts EVERYONE and as lexy says how it interacts with other mechanics (let alone the fact it can stack).

Bleeds are broken because they only have one form of mitigation and thats through CP but there are multiple bleed sources which are sometimes impossible too stop. Which is why battlegrounds is full of stamsorc bleed builds that ruin the matches and experience. Apart from running with a templar with purge or some other form of cleanse you will not have fun unless you're the one running the bleeds.

In hindsight bleeds are a lot like sloads in that regard but you can mitigate the damage of bleeds to an extent. Where as sloads has no form of mitigation whatsoever. I find that duroks is likely the worst offender overall but in tandem....consider what happens if you run both sloads, duroks and bleeds together...(Yeah I know you already did that for a video at least the first two). This was more for everyone else.

All 3 need to be dealt with to be honest.

JPcrazysquirrel3

Defile

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Biased poll, as there is ALOT more in eso that is Far greater threat and Far more dangerous then the 3 you have mentioned here.

This poll is a f****** joke.

Feanor

All of them, if you ask me. But it doesn’t really matter. Cheese is the name of the game.

Peekachu99

Argonian, heavy Armor and minor mending/ vitality and you’ve pretty much negated Defile completely—even moreso in CP campaigns. Add major mending, plus healing sets and major vitality to the mix and you’ve negated PVP healing debuffs in general.

Problem is, people don’t like that they have to build for counter play and can’t just glass cannon nuke someone into the ground. Work on your build before blaming one set/ move. That’s a crutch and deflection for your inability to play and theorycraft.

Edit: I do not use or intend to use this set. Speaking from experience, it is ridiculously easy to counter via self healing or—even funnier—pulling mobs into the fight since Sload’s does not smart target.

CrazYDunm3r

Defile

It has been talked about a lot, this post is just to trigger people I guess. Anyway: for me defile, then bleeds, then sload is the order, from worse to a bit better.

Feanor

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Argonian, heavy Armor and minor mending/ vitality and you’ve pretty much negated Defile completely—even moreso in CP campaigns. Add major mending, plus healing sets and major vitality to the mix and you’ve negated PVP healing debuffs in general.

Problem is, people don’t like that they have to build for counter play and can’t just glass cannon nuke someone into the ground. Work on your build before blaming one set/ move. That’s a crutch and deflection for your inability to play and theorycrafting.

The combination of Argonian with certain heavy Armour sets (or anything really) is quite the cheese as well. Of course you can negate defiles and debuffs completely. Not everyone likes to play a tanky character that needs to crutch on other cheese to get his kills though. Fighting cheese with cheese is possible but only further demonstrates the issues.

Peekachu99

Feanor wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Argonian, heavy Armor and minor mending/ vitality and you’ve pretty much negated Defile completely—even moreso in CP campaigns. Add major mending, plus healing sets and major vitality to the mix and you’ve negated PVP healing debuffs in general.

Problem is, people don’t like that they have to build for counter play and can’t just glass cannon nuke someone into the ground. Work on your build before blaming one set/ move. That’s a crutch and deflection for your inability to play and theorycrafting.

The combination of Argonian with certain heavy Armour sets (or anything really) is quite the cheese as well. Of course you can negate defiles and debuffs completely. Not everyone likes to play a tanky character that needs to crutch on other cheese to get his kills though. Fighting cheese with cheese is possible but only further demonstrates the issues.

What you call cheese is just effective use of stats, smart counterplay and min-maxing. There’s nothing cheese about using game mechanics to their intended advantage lol.

“Man goes to a race then complains that no one is walking to the finish line like he is. Cheaters! CHEEEEESE!”

/s

BigBadVolk

Bleeds

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Argonian, heavy Armor and minor mending/ vitality and you’ve pretty much negated Defile completely—even moreso in CP campaigns. Add major mending, plus healing sets and major vitality to the mix and you’ve negated PVP healing debuffs in general.

Problem is, people don’t like that they have to build for counter play and can’t just glass cannon nuke someone into the ground. Work on your build before blaming one set/ move. That’s a crutch and deflection for your inability to play and theorycrafting.

The combination of Argonian with certain heavy Armour sets (or anything really) is quite the cheese as well. Of course you can negate defiles and debuffs completely. Not everyone likes to play a tanky character that needs to crutch on other cheese to get his kills though. Fighting cheese with cheese is possible but only further demonstrates the issues.

What you call cheese is just effective use of stats, smart counterplay and min-maxing. There’s nothing cheese about using game mechanics to their intended advantage lol.

“Man goes to a race then complains that no one is walking to the finish line like he is. Cheaters! CHEEEEESE!”

/s

Feanor means here thats why people in pvp stack to groups target one people, and use such sets and mechanics like sloads + bleeds + defile
so its like trying to cure cancer with cancer

Lexxypwns

Defile

Daus wrote: »

Deep_01 wrote: »

Cost poisons.

Honestly this is probably worse than every item listed in the poll.

I’d rather fight with cost poisons on me than major defile. I’m confident under which circumstances I perform better.

@Anastian you’re telling me that “countering” half the healing from vigor alone is stronger than reducing 45% of all healing done? No sir.

@Peekachu99 actually, major vitality+Argonian in heavy is not enough to return your healing to pre-defile levels, you’ll still have something like a 46% healing modifier in Cyrodiil because defile is 45% reduced healing AFTER bonuses. My mageblade build with Heavy+Argonian+25% healing done/received(CP, set bonuses, Siphoning passives) has a defiled cloak heal of ~5k on a 9k tooltip. With 0 modifiers it’s a 11.5k heal, as you can see defile is stronger than you claim, if I drank a vitality pot and had a crit heal I’d negate most of the defile, but Major vitality either has really low uptime or huge opportunity cost because you sacrificed jewelry glyphs for potion cooldown. That’s still not counting I could never get back to my 13.5k+ crit heal before defile

Duiventeler

Defile

Eso Propaganda @ Sloads

Skoomah

How about methods for mitigation: Over Healing, Shield Stacking, Cloak Spam, Perma-Blocking?

People forget how powerful top end pvp'ers have become. They run around with their Immortal Builds so people had to come up with counters.

Get some perspective and quit your whining.

Lexxypwns

Defile

Skoomah wrote: »

How about methods for mitigation: Over Healing, Shield Stacking, Cloak Spam, Perma-Blocking?

People forget how powerful top end pvp'ers have become. They run around with their Immortal Builds so people had to come up with counters.

Get some perspective and quit your whining.

It’s not whining at all. In fact, best i can tell this is an emotionally neutral poll and you’re attaching the whining stigma to it when really it’s just an open discussion about 3 offensive threats(that’s why mitigation isn’t mentioned).

In general I think there’s a majority agreement that these specific things can be made to overperform. Taken alone none of them are so ridiculous that they must go, but when you min/max around the performance of one, or a combination of these things it allows you to apply a level of pressure that drastically exceeds reasonable expectations of survivability needs. That is to say, of course a 60k health tank build is able to tank until his group arrives, but a damage oriented player not using these can’t quite compete with an equally skilled damage oriented player using these. Especially should you stack multiple of them, or if you’ve got problematic interactions with sload(block heavy, shield stack, dodge roll reliant), or if you’re running a Heaing based build...

You see the point I’m making, no?

Edit: I’ve already mentioned this but I want to reiterate it again. Defile is problematic when stacked with befoul, but when your source it specifically from Durok’s where you’re able to consistently reapply it without using any GCDs it becomes a different thing entirely.

Feanor

@Peekachu99

Actually your analogy would be like this:

A couple of people equipping prosthetics so they are as fast as Usain Bolt in the race...

Skoomah

The options are biased. Its not a complete discussion if you don't even have an option for the crazy mitigation methods. The poll and OP is cleverly trying to get the three listed options nerfed.

Peekachu99

Feanor wrote: »

@Peekachu99

Actually your analogy would be like this:

A couple of people equipping prosthetics so they are as fast as Usain Bolt in the race...

Um, I’m married to an amputee, and you can’t just ‘equip’ a prosthetic lol. I have no idea what you’re trying to say in that analogy. What I said actually made sense in the English language.

NikaTheCat

Feanor wrote: »

@Peekachu99

Actually your analogy would be like this:

A couple of people equipping prosthetics so they are as fast as Usain Bolt in the race...

And Usain Bolt can equip prosthetics too which would make him even faster than before, so everything is in order.

Peekachu99

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Deep_01 wrote: »

Cost poisons.

Honestly this is probably worse than every item listed in the poll.

I’d rather fight with cost poisons on me than major defile. I’m confident under which circumstances I perform better.

@Anastian you’re telling me that “countering” half the healing from vigor alone is stronger than reducing 45% of all healing done? No sir.

@Peekachu99 actually, major vitality+Argonian in heavy is not enough to return your healing to pre-defile levels, you’ll still have something like a 46% healing modifier in Cyrodiil because defile is 45% reduced healing AFTER bonuses. My mageblade build with Heavy+Argonian+25% healing done/received(CP, set bonuses, Siphoning passives) has a defiled cloak heal of ~5k on a 9k tooltip. With 0 modifiers it’s a 11.5k heal, as you can see defile is stronger than you claim, if I drank a vitality pot and had a crit heal I’d negate most of the defile, but Major vitality either has really low uptime or huge opportunity cost because you sacrificed jewelry glyphs for potion cooldown. That’s still not counting I could never get back to my 13.5k+ crit heal before defile

No, in that example the 45% is with both MAJOR and MINOR defile active. If someone has that setup they literally have no damage 1v1 and can be easily avoided, CC’d or burst down in a group. Also, a Vitality pot lasts 13-15s (I’m away from the game and don’t remember), unless you haven’t maxed out your alchemy (then you shouldn’t be PVPING at all tbh). Furthermore, it can be easily cycled and or added with major mending for around 30s of +30% or +60% healing, plus speed or lingering health, too—trust me, it makes you unkillable. I do agree that Defile is a bit too strong, though removing it from the game as some of these people are crying for would be a terrible move.

What I would like to see is a simple consolidation of stats. I have no idea why we have three healing stats all of which affect slightly different aspects of healing. Just give us a “healing” stat and call it a day.

Lexxypwns

Defile

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Deep_01 wrote: »

Cost poisons.

Honestly this is probably worse than every item listed in the poll.

I’d rather fight with cost poisons on me than major defile. I’m confident under which circumstances I perform better.

@Anastian you’re telling me that “countering” half the healing from vigor alone is stronger than reducing 45% of all healing done? No sir.

@Peekachu99 actually, major vitality+Argonian in heavy is not enough to return your healing to pre-defile levels, you’ll still have something like a 46% healing modifier in Cyrodiil because defile is 45% reduced healing AFTER bonuses. My mageblade build with Heavy+Argonian+25% healing done/received(CP, set bonuses, Siphoning passives) has a defiled cloak heal of ~5k on a 9k tooltip. With 0 modifiers it’s a 11.5k heal, as you can see defile is stronger than you claim, if I drank a vitality pot and had a crit heal I’d negate most of the defile, but Major vitality either has really low uptime or huge opportunity cost because you sacrificed jewelry glyphs for potion cooldown. That’s still not counting I could never get back to my 13.5k+ crit heal before defile

No, in that example the 45% is with both MAJOR and MINOR defile active. If someone has that setup they literally have no damage 1v1 and can be easily avoided, CC’d or burst down in a group. Also, a Vitality pot lasts 13-15s (I’m away from the game and don’t remember), unless you haven’t maxed out your alchemy (then you shouldn’t be PVPING at all tbh). Furthermore, it can be easily cycled and or added with major mending for around 30s of +30% or +60% healing, plus speed or lingering health, too—trust me, it makes you unkillable. I do agree that Defile is a bit too strong, though removing it from the game as some of these people are crying for would be a terrible move.

What I would like to see is a simple consolidation of stats. I have no idea why we have three healing stats all of which affect slightly different aspects of healing. Just give us a “healing” stat and call it a day.

When stacking befoul you get 45% tooltip on Major Defile sir. Which invalidates literally all your arguements.

Edit: just wanted to add, I’m running 40k magika and 3000 spell damage on my Durok’s Mageblade build from Dragon Bones, which is tons of damage.

Feanor

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Peekachu99

Actually your analogy would be like this:

A couple of people equipping prosthetics so they are as fast as Usain Bolt in the race...

Um, I’m married to an amputee, and you can’t just ‘equip’ a prosthetic lol. I have no idea what you’re trying to say in that analogy. What I said actually made sense in the English language.

Nvm. As we won’t agree on the topic anyway I’ll just slink back into the shadows.

DeadlyRecluse

Sloads

Bleeds and defile counter one type of defense each (armor mit and healing, respectively)

Oblivion counters a laundry list of defenses. I actually really like the interplay between bleeds and armor/defile and healing, though some specific sources and buffs (befoul CP star) need adjustment.

JPcrazysquirrel3

Defile

They already nerfed bleed at one point.

Defile isn't used to by everyone in PvP because it doesn't necessarily need to be constantly applied and it just doesn't fit with some builds, but it is useful in its current state. Maybe in BGs, it's overused, but that is a different mode of PvP. Stop calling for nerfs to things that only affect one little slice of gameplay. If it gets nerfed for BGs, then it gets nerfed for mainstream PvP, and if it gets nerfed in PvP, then PvE can kiss it goodbye as well.

Sloads is a counter to Sorc shields and NB cloaks, and contrary to popular belief, there are actually ways to avoid and mitigate it. Not everyone will be running Sloads because it doesn't fit with every build, it doesn't give you resistance or anything else necessary in PvP and just makes you more of a glass cannon. So you can get the notion that "everyone in Cyrodiil will be running Sloads" out of your head.

JPcrazysquirrel3

Defile

JPcrazysquirrel3 wrote: »

They already nerfed bleed at one point.

Defile isn't used to by everyone in PvP because it doesn't necessarily need to be constantly applied and it just doesn't fit with some builds, but it is useful in its current state. Maybe in BGs, it's overused, but that is a different mode of PvP. Stop calling for nerfs to things that only affect one little slice of gameplay. If it gets nerfed for BGs, then it gets nerfed for mainstream PvP, and if it gets nerfed in PvP, then PvE can kiss it goodbye as well.

Sloads is a counter to Sorc shields and NB cloaks, and contrary to popular belief, there are actually ways to avoid and mitigate it. Not everyone will be running Sloads because it doesn't fit with every build, it doesn't give you resistance or anything else necessary in PvP and just makes you more of a glass cannon. So you can get the notion that "everyone in Cyrodiil will be running Sloads" out of your head.

I only chose Defile because the other two are unneeded, but perhaps a slight nerf to defile wouldn't hurt. This whole poll is severely biased and set up to cleverly attempt to get all three of these things nerfed. However, I'd sooner have ZOS nerf poisons like the stat draining ones, as someone else mentioned.

JPcrazysquirrel3

Defile

In other news, OP:

This poll is bad and you should feel bad.

Gilvoth

Edziu wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Biased poll, as there is ALOT more in eso that is Far greater threat and Far more dangerous then the 3 you have mentioned here.

Actually those are the most dangerous.. Oblivion damage goes through all mitigation, bleeds ignore resistance, and defile + befoul cp makes your healing non existent. Idk what other "greater threat" you have in mind but those 3 are the most cancerous offensive things in eso pvp.

all ultimates, is another one, fall damage, the list is very long.
just claiming that 3 things are the greatest and none other exist is just not true.
oblivion damage cant be stoped but if you cast purge on the sloads set D.O.T. it will remove that D.O.T.

here we going again, again and again
just cast purge to remove sload...but before your purge will remove 5 other dots before it will catch to remove sload

if you are fighting a group of four in battle grounds and they are all wearing sloads, well, then Yeah its not gona purge because they are all procing on your because your fighting a group of them.

Ragnarock41

Defile

why not both?

Datthaw

Lexxypwns wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Biased poll, as there is ALOT more in eso that is Far greater threat and Far more dangerous then the 3 you have mentioned here.

Name 3 individual things more dangerous than this list, I’ll wait

Soul assault, cloak, and sorcs


Q('.'Q)