[Class Rep] Warden Feedback Thread

ESO_Nightingale

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

It would be nice to have an OPTION to toggle certain skills/buffs -- especially on the Warden because Wardens have such an exhausting buff rotation. For example, Lotus Flower and Living Vines are perfect candidates for skills that a player might consider toggling, if they so choose. The decision to toggle comes at a cost, as a skill would need to be double barred (see: Sorcerer pets) to remain active at all times, but on certain builds, especially heavy rotation builds like Wardens often have, it would be nice to have the OPTION to make that sacrifice.

"Toggling" a skill could be as simple as pressing the "lock" button on a skill that qualifies as one that could be toggled (the same way we "lock" items that we don't want to sell or deconstruct).

warden doesn't need more "slotted" skills. PLEASE NO.

It's an "option," meaning you don't have to change anything about your current build if you don't want to.

My bad. I don't think they'd do this though. It would be more realistic to see a duration increase. But an option like that would be nice. Skill's just not worth it on magden too. Could use a buff.

Ysbriel

First thing first, the lack of ICE damaging skills onther than impaling shards and morphs and Sleet storm ultimate, specially with the dps removal of artic blast.

Second is how the DPS skills are designed for the Magicka Warden use-

Deep fissue has good damage but i have to wait 3 seconds for it to pop, in that time both in PvP and

PvE the damage potential is loss, where a Class like sorcerer has a similarly damaging skill that gives you an option to cast it instantly

Cliff Racer is simply to slow and to be something that people refer as the spammable, its basically too slow to serve that purpose and not strong enough, this in comparison with other class skills that are spammable


Fetcher infection has a morph that requires a recast for benefit and one morph that only spreads out when the effects end? no AoE or enemy near initial target potential in any of those skills.

Going back to impaling shards, the winters revenge morph is both underwhelming and has a very small area of effect and one of both should be worked on to insure more damage.

The other ice damage as i mentioned comes from an ultimate skill many have complained about it but ultimates are meant to be a strong attack. the problem lies in having to wait for just that moment to say oh yeah now the damage will finally kick in
and that is why people notice more the sleet storm than anything else the warden does unless they were unfortunately hit by the shalk which has a 3 second window to roll out of the way.


Basically so far while using my Magden on PvP it relies more on Staff damaging skills that on the Class skills itself, nothing i've faced with any other class, My first magden is mow a tank, ZOZ you are more than welcome to check my in game stats and see how many times i re rolled my warden from stam to mag to stam to finally Tank. i do not feel happy at all with the Wardens magicka performance or the removal of the ice dps from artic blast please bring back even at the cost of healing, you have clases that have a Healing or damaging morph option.

I understand the Warden might represent the Tundra in mix of ice/animals/green balance
but its not well represented in terms of performance due to design and lack of options in comparison with other Classes when it comes to the Magicka damage side of things. No problem with the support skills it provides its just the damaging skills.

Nerouyn

Ysbriel wrote: »

Second is how the DPS skills are designed for the Magicka Warden use-

Deep fissue has good damage but i have to wait 3 seconds for it to pop, in that time both in PvP and

PvE the damage potential is loss, where a Class like sorcerer has a similarly damaging skill that gives you an option to cast it instantly

Personally I don't have any problems with Warden damage output. I dish out a tonne.

And I can't speak to PvP but Deep Fissure is great in PvE. You can fire it off while still approaching mobs to effectively hit them instantly. Immediately fire again. Execute a few other abilities while it charges up. Etc. etc.

It's a different style of play to other classes but I love it.

All by itself it also does considerable damage. If I'm overwhelmed sometimes I just alternate between firing it and blocking while it charges etc. etc.

Ysbriel wrote: »

Cliff Racer is simply to slow and to be something that people refer as the spammable, its basically too slow to serve that purpose and not strong enough, this in comparison with other class skills that are spammable

I just find spamming too tedious to engage in so rarely slotting. Has been effective when I have though.

ESO_Nightingale

Nerouyn wrote: »

Ysbriel wrote: »

Second is how the DPS skills are designed for the Magicka Warden use-

Deep fissue has good damage but i have to wait 3 seconds for it to pop, in that time both in PvP and

PvE the damage potential is loss, where a Class like sorcerer has a similarly damaging skill that gives you an option to cast it instantly

Personally I don't have any problems with Warden damage output. I dish out a tonne.

And I can't speak to PvP but Deep Fissure is great in PvE. You can fire it off while still approaching mobs to effectively hit them instantly. Immediately fire again. Execute a few other abilities while it charges up. Etc. etc.

It's a different style of play to other classes but I love it.

All by itself it also does considerable damage. If I'm overwhelmed sometimes I just alternate between firing it and blocking while it charges etc. etc.

Ysbriel wrote: »

Cliff Racer is simply to slow and to be something that people refer as the spammable, its basically too slow to serve that purpose and not strong enough, this in comparison with other class skills that are spammable

I just find spamming too tedious to engage in so rarely slotting. Has been effective when I have though.

It does parse the lowest of any class while having the least group viability, so I'm glad that you're happy with it!

However I (and many others) are upset about the state of warden. Its not what it was at launch anymore and we just have such a lack off everything including sense of uniqueness. I've said before we lack quantity and quality of skills with most of our only 4 skills (once 3!) being raw damage and very generic and Scorch being the only one that isn't. Our skills worked much better together before with the scorch, bird, force shock combo being insane burst. Not anymore. We need help.

Starlight_Knight

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Nerouyn wrote: »

Ysbriel wrote: »

Second is how the DPS skills are designed for the Magicka Warden use-

Deep fissue has good damage but i have to wait 3 seconds for it to pop, in that time both in PvP and

PvE the damage potential is loss, where a Class like sorcerer has a similarly damaging skill that gives you an option to cast it instantly

Personally I don't have any problems with Warden damage output. I dish out a tonne.

And I can't speak to PvP but Deep Fissure is great in PvE. You can fire it off while still approaching mobs to effectively hit them instantly. Immediately fire again. Execute a few other abilities while it charges up. Etc. etc.

It's a different style of play to other classes but I love it.

All by itself it also does considerable damage. If I'm overwhelmed sometimes I just alternate between firing it and blocking while it charges etc. etc.

Ysbriel wrote: »

Cliff Racer is simply to slow and to be something that people refer as the spammable, its basically too slow to serve that purpose and not strong enough, this in comparison with other class skills that are spammable

I just find spamming too tedious to engage in so rarely slotting. Has been effective when I have though.

It does parse the lowest of any class while having the least group viability, so I'm glad that you're happy with it!

However I (and many others) are upset about the state of warden. Its not what it was at launch anymore and we just have such a lack off everything including sense of uniqueness. I've said before we lack quantity and quality of skills with most of our only 4 skills (once 3!) being raw damage and very generic and Scorch being the only one that isn't. Our skills worked much better together before with the scorch, bird, force shock combo being insane burst. Not anymore. We need help.

I agree with this. The change to the force pulse combo was so random and uncalled for, Didn't they do it on the last week of PTS as well so nobody could argue it ?
it was like one of those small things they thought would feel better as they couldn't see the delay for burst potential being useful.
Having that combo made up for the fact we have no execute.
BRING BACK THE DELAYED BIRDS!

Nerouyn

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

It does parse the lowest of any class while having the least group viability, so I'm glad that you're happy with it!

With their damage output, yes. Just that though.

Group content in this game doesn't interest me.

a) My preference is to play healer but as I've detailed previously in this thread, the reasons I enjoy that don't apply to ESO.

b) The sets tend to be total rubbish.

x% of shooting a daedra out of your butt to bite your opponent, with a 20 second cooldown? Smeg off!

One of the game's biggest appeal's is that abilities don't have cooldowns. Creating a crap tonne of "uber" gear rewards with random procs and cooldowns was an odd choice.

c) Wearing said gear means I sacrifice control of my character's appearance.

Granted, the new outfit system potentially addresses that. But at $15 per outfit slot per character, it may as well not exist for me. Even with crown store / gold trading and them occasionally going on sale (like now) for half price, that's still a bit pricey.

I have a LOT of inventory / bank upgrades to go. There's motifs and furniture plans.

And I'm not even sure presently which of my characters I'll main. I wouldn't waste outfit slots on alts. There shouldn't be classes in this game but if it had to have them, warden was the only one that interested me. So I stopped playing my sorc and delayed playing my wardens - apart from getting one some skyshards and mage books - while I got the awful horse feeding grind done. And then started on traits. Approaching readiness but then there's these upcoming major racial passive changes.

So bottom line, group content hasn't much appeal. I just do dungeons during the end of year event.

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

However I (and many others) are upset about the state of warden.

I'm upset about the state of warden. Very. Scroll back a page or two.

Our heals are largely vastly inferior to resto staff heals or those of other classes for this game's PvE. Just for the sake of argument I actually slotted them all yesterday for a Vvardenfell world boss. It didn't not go well. Switched to resto staff. No problems.

Nature's Grasp was even worse than I'd remembered. A lot of the time there were other people or pets between me and the person who needed healing so many were wasted and there were lots of unnecessary deaths.

I'm madly in love their appearance but their functionality ain't great for healers.

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Its not what it was at launch anymore and we just have such a lack off everything including sense of uniqueness.

With the possible exception of Templars, all of the classes have all experienced major changes.

And you can't be serious about lack of uniqueness.

Visually they're obviously unique. And gorgeous.

Their style of play is totally different to other classes. This is something people actually complain about.

No execute ability. I love that. Not everyone does.

We have an ultimate which is always at work rather than what is effectively an uber ability on a cooldown. I don't love ultimates. I play this game because it doesn't use cooldowns. The warden bear is great! And even the heal ultimate isn't too bad because compared to many ultimate's its cost is quite low. So it's less unavailable. Same goes for the bear ultimate special attack.

While I personally despise that we have an entire useless line for tanking, no other class has tanking and heals covered like warden does.

And yes it is useless. The game punishes you - gold cost and time - to respec. Damage, healing and tanking each require different stats and CP to be optimal. Damage and healing at least both rely on magicka so I can cover those. But tanking is out and those skills are useless to me.

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

I've said before we lack quantity and quality of skills with most of our only 4 skills (once 3!) being raw damage and very generic and Scorch being the only one that isn't. Our skills worked much better together before with the scorch, bird, force shock combo being insane burst. Not anymore. We need help.

I'm totally with you on the dire lack of magicka damage abilities. It's my biggest beef. With a whole line for tanking and a whole line for healing and 2 out of the 5 damage line abilities being buffs, it's really awful.

Though I find the damage abilities we have are perfectly functional if used properly, which requires a different approach to other classes.

I solo'ed the Nchuleftingth public dungeon yesterday - including the group event - first time ever inside, in not terribly great gear. All purple light armor and jewellery with yellow enchants - Julianos, Imperial Wrath, Torug's Pact. Yellow weapons but without enchants. No points in any passive skills except for the light armour magicka cost reduction and crit ones.

Then I decided to try on some purple heavy armor - which I've never used before - and do the other public dungeon. No enchants and no HA passives. Bit slower but easier. Especially the group event.

MinarasLaure

I don't know much about stamden as I only play magden, but for what I see in pvp, and what I hear from pve, doesn't seem like they need buffs, which is probably why it'll be very hard to buff magden.
Under a pvp pov stamden is perfectly fine or maybe a bit op, while magdens need an execute, but that skill must be appealing only to magdens, so a magicka morph of a class skill maybe?
I was thinking of fetcher infection, raise the cost, leave the dmg over time the way it is (low) but make it trigger a x points of dmg explosion while the enemy is under x% of health

ESO_Nightingale

Nerouyn wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

It does parse the lowest of any class while having the least group viability, so I'm glad that you're happy with it!

With their damage output, yes. Just that though.

Group content in this game doesn't interest me.

a) My preference is to play healer but as I've detailed previously in this thread, the reasons I enjoy that don't apply to ESO.

b) The sets tend to be total rubbish.

x% of shooting a daedra out of your butt to bite your opponent, with a 20 second cooldown? Smeg off!

One of the game's biggest appeal's is that abilities don't have cooldowns. Creating a crap tonne of "uber" gear rewards with random procs and cooldowns was an odd choice.

c) Wearing said gear means I sacrifice control of my character's appearance.

Granted, the new outfit system potentially addresses that. But at $15 per outfit slot per character, it may as well not exist for me. Even with crown store / gold trading and them occasionally going on sale (like now) for half price, that's still a bit pricey.

I have a LOT of inventory / bank upgrades to go. There's motifs and furniture plans.

And I'm not even sure presently which of my characters I'll main. I wouldn't waste outfit slots on alts. There shouldn't be classes in this game but if it had to have them, warden was the only one that interested me. So I stopped playing my sorc and delayed playing my wardens - apart from getting one some skyshards and mage books - while I got the awful horse feeding grind done. And then started on traits. Approaching readiness but then there's these upcoming major racial passive changes.

So bottom line, group content hasn't much appeal. I just do dungeons during the end of year event.

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

However I (and many others) are upset about the state of warden.

I'm upset about the state of warden. Very. Scroll back a page or two.

Our heals are largely vastly inferior to resto staff heals or those of other classes for this game's PvE. Just for the sake of argument I actually slotted them all yesterday for a Vvardenfell world boss. It didn't not go well. Switched to resto staff. No problems.

Nature's Grasp was even worse than I'd remembered. A lot of the time there were other people or pets between me and the person who needed healing so many were wasted and there were lots of unnecessary deaths.

I'm madly in love their appearance but their functionality ain't great for healers.

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Its not what it was at launch anymore and we just have such a lack off everything including sense of uniqueness.

With the possible exception of Templars, all of the classes have all experienced major changes.

And you can't be serious about lack of uniqueness.

Visually they're obviously unique. And gorgeous.

Their style of play is totally different to other classes. This is something people actually complain about.

No execute ability. I love that. Not everyone does.

We have an ultimate which is always at work rather than what is effectively an uber ability on a cooldown. I don't love ultimates. I play this game because it doesn't use cooldowns. The warden bear is great! And even the heal ultimate isn't too bad because compared to many ultimate's its cost is quite low. So it's less unavailable. Same goes for the bear ultimate special attack.

While I personally despise that we have an entire useless line for tanking, no other class has tanking and heals covered like warden does.

And yes it is useless. The game punishes you - gold cost and time - to respec. Damage, healing and tanking each require different stats and CP to be optimal. Damage and healing at least both rely on magicka so I can cover those. But tanking is out and those skills are useless to me.

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

I've said before we lack quantity and quality of skills with most of our only 4 skills (once 3!) being raw damage and very generic and Scorch being the only one that isn't. Our skills worked much better together before with the scorch, bird, force shock combo being insane burst. Not anymore. We need help.

I'm totally with you on the dire lack of magicka damage abilities. It's my biggest beef. With a whole line for tanking and a whole line for healing and 2 out of the 5 damage line abilities being buffs, it's really awful.

Though I find the damage abilities we have are perfectly functional if used properly, which requires a different approach to other classes.

I solo'ed the Nchuleftingth public dungeon yesterday - including the group event - first time ever inside, in not terribly great gear. All purple light armor and jewellery with yellow enchants - Julianos, Imperial Wrath, Torug's Pact. Yellow weapons but without enchants. No points in any passive skills except for the light armour magicka cost reduction and crit ones.

Then I decided to try on some purple heavy armor - which I've never used before - and do the other public dungeon. No enchants and no HA passives. Bit slower but easier. Especially the group event.

we are very visually unique, sure but we are punished for what we bring especially in pve. in pvp a stamden can do our job better even though it's down to preference of what we like to look at. but you can argue that stamden looks the same as us just with a sword instead of a staff. our burst is so much worse than other classes in pvp not because it hits bad numbers but because it's just so easy to see coming. our skills are mostly raw damage! we absolutely need more help. we are punished with a lack of skills because of ZOS'S "UGHUGHUH DPS/HEAL/TANK line" idea which they broke by rightfully (i might add) giving us winter's revenge as a good dps skill rather than:

Winter's Revenge – Skewer enemies with icy shards in a 6-meter radius, dealing Frost Damage in an area within 28 meters to 6 targets every second over 12 seconds and reducing Movement Speed by 30% for 3 seconds. Damage done is based on your Max Health. Lower Magicka cost.

^ this.... thing?

my warden ideas are based around giving magden more dps skills to work with, group viability in pve and a bit of passive help in winter's embrace.

ESO_Nightingale

MinarasLaure wrote: »

I don't know much about stamden as I only play magden, but for what I see in pvp, and what I hear from pve, doesn't seem like they need buffs, which is probably why it'll be very hard to buff magden.
Under a pvp pov stamden is perfectly fine or maybe a bit op, while magdens need an execute, but that skill must be appealing only to magdens, so a magicka morph of a class skill maybe?
I was thinking of fetcher infection, raise the cost, leave the dmg over time the way it is (low) but make it trigger a x points of dmg explosion while the enemy is under x% of health

Magden is far from overpowered. "poison injection swarm" is universally accepted as a "good idea"

MinarasLaure

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MinarasLaure wrote: »

I don't know much about stamden as I only play magden, but for what I see in pvp, and what I hear from pve, doesn't seem like they need buffs, which is probably why it'll be very hard to buff magden.
Under a pvp pov stamden is perfectly fine or maybe a bit op, while magdens need an execute, but that skill must be appealing only to magdens, so a magicka morph of a class skill maybe?
I was thinking of fetcher infection, raise the cost, leave the dmg over time the way it is (low) but make it trigger a x points of dmg explosion while the enemy is under x% of health

Magden is far from overpowered. "poison injection swarm" is universally accepted as a "good idea"

Correct, but at the same time it'll be really hard to buff magden without breaking stamden.

ESO_Nightingale

MinarasLaure wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MinarasLaure wrote: »

I don't know much about stamden as I only play magden, but for what I see in pvp, and what I hear from pve, doesn't seem like they need buffs, which is probably why it'll be very hard to buff magden.
Under a pvp pov stamden is perfectly fine or maybe a bit op, while magdens need an execute, but that skill must be appealing only to magdens, so a magicka morph of a class skill maybe?
I was thinking of fetcher infection, raise the cost, leave the dmg over time the way it is (low) but make it trigger a x points of dmg explosion while the enemy is under x% of health

Magden is far from overpowered. "poison injection swarm" is universally accepted as a "good idea"

Correct, but at the same time it'll be really hard to buff magden without breaking stamden.

well, not really. you just have to make winters embrace skills for magden and also change magden-only morphs. we have plenty of ideas to make SOLELY magden better.

Klingenlied

Hmm, to me, if it is too hard to tinker with aktive skills and one fears do invalidate other builds, we should at least get the passives boosted. I mean the lack of damage for mag warden compared to the other classes mag setups is reality. And it stays reality with .. say "neutral" sets. I think adding some new frost specific sets might push mag warden in the right direction, but only until something new and stronger comes for the other classes once again. Thus, we need to get more in line with the other classes base strengths. Of course, the more thought out the solutions - the better, the community seems to have done a real good job here. But, please, do hurry up somewhat. Mag warden has been in a sorry state for a rather long time now. It should not take much longer for some changes.

Ysbriel

MinarasLaure wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MinarasLaure wrote: »

I don't know much about stamden as I only play magden, but for what I see in pvp, and what I hear from pve, doesn't seem like they need buffs, which is probably why it'll be very hard to buff magden.
Under a pvp pov stamden is perfectly fine or maybe a bit op, while magdens need an execute, but that skill must be appealing only to magdens, so a magicka morph of a class skill maybe?
I was thinking of fetcher infection, raise the cost, leave the dmg over time the way it is (low) but make it trigger a x points of dmg explosion while the enemy is under x% of health

Magden is far from overpowered. "poison injection swarm" is universally accepted as a "good idea"

Correct, but at the same time it'll be really hard to buff magden without breaking stamden.

Since we are talking about magicka based morphs it wouldn’t affect the Stamden. I honestly don’t think that the Stamdem is beyond any class anyways, people just figured out how to be effective with it and it went from being the so called "jack of all trades" to "Nerf it ZOS!" , but back to the Magden on PvP what is the difference from Stam? some Damage Skills cost Magicka and that's it. On PvE its just about the same as well.

SkysOutThizeOut

@MinarasLaure stamden is not overpowered. Solo it is arguably the worst stam class. In group... it’s arguably one of the best. This is because all of its damage is so predicatable and telegraphed, a skilled player can dodge or mitigate most of the damage. Syhae did a really good write up on why it’s one of the worst solo.

alexj4596b14_ESO

So I am new to Warden but I feel like i need to put my 2 cents into this. I use to main NB Ice staff tank. I love that I don't have 5 CDs to worry about. I am running mag Warden Ice/lighting staff.

In my early experience In PVP I am incredibly tanky, while I built for straight damage. I enjoy this very aspect of Warden. I have pretty poor reaction time due to some issues. I love that this class allows for that reaction time compared to the other classes. I'd really prefer this not change otherwise I will end up being a tank in PvP which does not sound fun. Onto the skills!

Artic Wind: It's ok for a stun otherwise useless. The healing is junk compared to other skills in game, it's morphs are just as trash. I would prefer this be turned into a single target spamable or a passive damage similar to voltile armor.

Gripping Shards: this need a secondary effect that only effects NPCs as a actual group CC for PvE. The radial area of effect should be increased by a few meters. 2-3 should be sufficient.

Deep Fissure & Morphs: This skill is great but I has a few issues. The first one is unless you can see the bugs go off in a mass group it's hard to see if they have actually gone off. Another visual cue would be helpful. The second thing that if a NPC or Player is not sitting within Z access of the move they aren't hit by it. Example terrain is not flat or very close to flat the bugs mis. Floating NPS can't be hot by this move. Z hit detection need to be increased by like half a meter or so. I also wouldn't mind if they gave made the other version of the skill be able to be similar to Scorc Telaport but in this case casting once starts the timer and the second time increased cost but cause it to activate instantly. A second set would cause an been more increased cost. A slight Damage decrease would be acceptable in this case.

Enchanted Forest & Morphs: this ult does not always fire if the animation is unable to go off. Which sucks in a pinch. Especially considering how cheep it is.

Falcon Swiftness & Morphs: make both buffs last equal amount even if you reduce the overall time of the of the buff. Just kinda weird to me.

Frozen Gate & Morphs: I do not understand the point of this skill for PvP or PvE. It's just useless. It's the person who made daedric mine for scroc was just like "lets make Telaporting mines and makem stun!" I don't really know what to put here instead. Just something else. How about a spamable something for damage?

Nerouyn

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

we are very visually unique, sure but we are punished for what we bring especially in pve. in pvp a stamden can do our job better even though it's down to preference of what we like to look at. but you can argue that stamden looks the same as us just with a sword instead of a staff. our burst is so much worse than other classes in pvp not because it hits bad numbers but because it's just so easy to see coming. our skills are mostly raw damage! we absolutely need more help. we are punished with a lack of skills because of ZOS'S "UGHUGHUH DPS/HEAL/TANK line" idea which they broke by rightfully (i might add) giving us winter's revenge as a good dps skill rather than:

Winter's Revenge – Skewer enemies with icy shards in a 6-meter radius, dealing Frost Damage in an area within 28 meters to 6 targets every second over 12 seconds and reducing Movement Speed by 30% for 3 seconds. Damage done is based on your Max Health. Lower Magicka cost.

^ this.... thing?

my warden ideas are based around giving magden more dps skills to work with, group viability in pve and a bit of passive help in winter's embrace.

You keep saying PvE sucks and you want better for PvE but in terms of concrete examples you only speak of PvP.

In PvE mag wardens are functionally magnificent - see my previous example about soloing a virgin public dungeon in crappy light armor and without many passives - albeit boring as hell courtesy of their pitifully low number of damage abilities and the similarly pitiful low number of non class magic damage abilities.

They need to be played differently from other classes but if you play them right they are gods in PvE.

Deep Fissure + Elemental Blockade + Winter's Revenge is very effective. Even without any associated passives. Which is what I'm running at the moment because I'm playing one of my wardens with not many skill points collected and a lot of those in crafting because that's what I'm working on atm.

Daedric Tomb + Lightning Splash + Volatile Familiar Pulse is the equivalent on my sorc and they're comparably effective. The difference is that my sorc h

I am honest-to-Azura seriously considering throwing in the towel on wardens (even though I have 9!) so added up the number of class abilities with some damage (on at least one morph) recently.

Dragonknight - 12
Nightblade - 9
Sorcerer - 11
Templar - 11
Warden - 6

Warden's 6 is effectively 4 though. Like with DK one of the damage abilities - Crystallized Slab - is a ranged attack reflect. Not every mob has ranged attacks and even if they do, they might target other players or your bear rather than you. Frozen Gate is something you could reliably use for damage but when I'm in light armour I typically don't want to teleport mobs right on top of me. Impractical / suicidal.

Nerouyn

alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »

Frozen Gate & Morphs: I do not understand the point of this skill for PvP or PvE. It's just useless. It's the person who made daedric mine for scroc was just like "lets make Telaporting mines and makem stun!" I don't really know what to put here instead. Just something else. How about a spamable something for damage?

Never use them myself but I understand their purpose.

You said you used to play a Nightblade and you PvP so you must be familiar with the Shadow Image, jump off a keep wall, do lots of damage, then teleport back up to the keep wall trick.

The ally teleport morph for Frozen Gate potentially allows a warden to let any player do that, admittedly with the added risk of an enemy player reaching the gate and teleporting up to you instead. So it would have to be used strategically and carefully.

More generally it's the warden alternative to a "pull" like DK's Fiery Grip. So good for tanks or just melee'ers pulling ranged mobs or fleeing players into range.

Ysbriel

alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »

So I am new to Warden but I feel like i need to put my 2 cents into this. I use to main NB Ice staff tank. I love that I don't have 5 CDs to worry about. I am running mag Warden Ice/lighting staff.

In my early experience In PVP I am incredibly tanky, while I built for straight damage. I enjoy this very aspect of Warden. I have pretty poor reaction time due to some issues. I love that this class allows for that reaction time compared to the other classes. I'd really prefer this not change otherwise I will end up being a tank in PvP which does not sound fun. Onto the skills!

Artic Wind: It's ok for a stun otherwise useless. The healing is junk compared to other skills in game, it's morphs are just as trash. I would prefer this be turned into a single target spamable or a passive damage similar to voltile armor.

Gripping Shards: this need a secondary effect that only effects NPCs as a actual group CC for PvE. The radial area of effect should be increased by a few meters. 2-3 should be sufficient.

Deep Fissure & Morphs: This skill is great but I has a few issues. The first one is unless you can see the bugs go off in a mass group it's hard to see if they have actually gone off. Another visual cue would be helpful. The second thing that if a NPC or Player is not sitting within Z access of the move they aren't hit by it. Example terrain is not flat or very close to flat the bugs mis. Floating NPS can't be hot by this move. Z hit detection need to be increased by like half a meter or so. I also wouldn't mind if they gave made the other version of the skill be able to be similar to Scorc Telaport but in this case casting once starts the timer and the second time increased cost but cause it to activate instantly. A second set would cause an been more increased cost. A slight Damage decrease would be acceptable in this case.

Enchanted Forest & Morphs: this ult does not always fire if the animation is unable to go off. Which sucks in a pinch. Especially considering how cheep it is.

Falcon Swiftness & Morphs: make both buffs last equal amount even if you reduce the overall time of the of the buff. Just kinda weird to me.

Frozen Gate & Morphs: I do not understand the point of this skill for PvP or PvE. It's just useless. It's the person who made daedric mine for scroc was just like "lets make Telaporting mines and makem stun!" I don't really know what to put here instead. Just something else. How about a spamable something for damage?

I Tank with my Stam Warden on PvP once in a while and it is fun, when it comes to the Frozen Gate & Morph, yes its complete trash and I replaced that with Silver Leash from the fighters guild. For Healing I slot both Vigor and Polar Wind to use whichever of the two I have the most resource available at the moment to spam a heal since artic blast has been nerfed.
The volatile armor effect would be nice if they added that to the Ice fortress, since one morph gives you minor protection the other one just expands further, slowing down enemies. For frozen gate they should make it taunt all monsters that walk over it besides pulling one target, and since the bosses don't get pulled it should either taunted if not pulled or do damage instead if not pulled, its basically another visually pleasant warden skill that doesn't work in a satisfactory way.

Ysbriel

Nerouyn wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

we are very visually unique, sure but we are punished for what we bring especially in pve. in pvp a stamden can do our job better even though it's down to preference of what we like to look at. but you can argue that stamden looks the same as us just with a sword instead of a staff. our burst is so much worse than other classes in pvp not because it hits bad numbers but because it's just so easy to see coming. our skills are mostly raw damage! we absolutely need more help. we are punished with a lack of skills because of ZOS'S "UGHUGHUH DPS/HEAL/TANK line" idea which they broke by rightfully (i might add) giving us winter's revenge as a good dps skill rather than:

Winter's Revenge – Skewer enemies with icy shards in a 6-meter radius, dealing Frost Damage in an area within 28 meters to 6 targets every second over 12 seconds and reducing Movement Speed by 30% for 3 seconds. Damage done is based on your Max Health. Lower Magicka cost.

^ this.... thing?

my warden ideas are based around giving magden more dps skills to work with, group viability in pve and a bit of passive help in winter's embrace.

You keep saying PvE sucks and you want better for PvE but in terms of concrete examples you only speak of PvP.

In PvE mag wardens are functionally magnificent - see my previous example about soloing a virgin public dungeon in crappy light armor and without many passives - albeit boring as hell courtesy of their pitifully low number of damage abilities and the similarly pitiful low number of non class magic damage abilities.

They need to be played differently from other classes but if you play them right they are gods in PvE.

Deep Fissure + Elemental Blockade + Winter's Revenge is very effective. Even without any associated passives. Which is what I'm running at the moment because I'm playing one of my wardens with not many skill points collected and a lot of those in crafting because that's what I'm working on atm.

Daedric Tomb + Lightning Splash + Volatile Familiar Pulse is the equivalent on my sorc and they're comparably effective. The difference is that my sorc h

I am honest-to-Azura seriously considering throwing in the towel on wardens (even though I have 9!) so added up the number of class abilities with some damage (on at least one morph) recently.

Dragonknight - 12
Nightblade - 9
Sorcerer - 11
Templar - 11
Warden - 6

Warden's 6 is effectively 4 though. Like with DK one of the damage abilities - Crystallized Slab - is a ranged attack reflect. Not every mob has ranged attacks and even if they do, they might target other players or your bear rather than you. Frozen Gate is something you could reliably use for damage but when I'm in light armour I typically don't want to teleport mobs right on top of me. Impractical / suicidal.

Off course he mentions frost staff on PvP because if you are on a Pug with a Frost staff unless you know how to keep yourself from HA on it you will get kicked out and that is if you are using winterborn set to do that extra damage, that basically the winterborn/iceheart are needed to make ice viable in this game. there is two ways to get the most out of a magden, stack crazy amounts of magcika or run winterborn, which renders most of the sets useless for the magden.

ESO_Nightingale

Nerouyn wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

we are very visually unique, sure but we are punished for what we bring especially in pve. in pvp a stamden can do our job better even though it's down to preference of what we like to look at. but you can argue that stamden looks the same as us just with a sword instead of a staff. our burst is so much worse than other classes in pvp not because it hits bad numbers but because it's just so easy to see coming. our skills are mostly raw damage! we absolutely need more help. we are punished with a lack of skills because of ZOS'S "UGHUGHUH DPS/HEAL/TANK line" idea which they broke by rightfully (i might add) giving us winter's revenge as a good dps skill rather than:

Winter's Revenge – Skewer enemies with icy shards in a 6-meter radius, dealing Frost Damage in an area within 28 meters to 6 targets every second over 12 seconds and reducing Movement Speed by 30% for 3 seconds. Damage done is based on your Max Health. Lower Magicka cost.

^ this.... thing?

my warden ideas are based around giving magden more dps skills to work with, group viability in pve and a bit of passive help in winter's embrace.

You keep saying PvE sucks and you want better for PvE but in terms of concrete examples you only speak of PvP.

In PvE mag wardens are functionally magnificent - see my previous example about soloing a virgin public dungeon in crappy light armor and without many passives - albeit boring as hell courtesy of their pitifully low number of damage abilities and the similarly pitiful low number of non class magic damage abilities.

They need to be played differently from other classes but if you play them right they are gods in PvE.

Deep Fissure + Elemental Blockade + Winter's Revenge is very effective. Even without any associated passives. Which is what I'm running at the moment because I'm playing one of my wardens with not many skill points collected and a lot of those in crafting because that's what I'm working on atm.

Daedric Tomb + Lightning Splash + Volatile Familiar Pulse is the equivalent on my sorc and they're comparably effective. The difference is that my sorc h

I am honest-to-Azura seriously considering throwing in the towel on wardens (even though I have 9!) so added up the number of class abilities with some damage (on at least one morph) recently.

Dragonknight - 12
Nightblade - 9
Sorcerer - 11
Templar - 11
Warden - 6

Warden's 6 is effectively 4 though. Like with DK one of the damage abilities - Crystallized Slab - is a ranged attack reflect. Not every mob has ranged attacks and even if they do, they might target other players or your bear rather than you. Frozen Gate is something you could reliably use for damage but when I'm in light armour I typically don't want to teleport mobs right on top of me. Impractical / suicidal.

They aren't as good as other classes in PvE. They don't offer much in the terms of group viability. toughness can be brought by all wardens and other classes make better use of master architect. They also hit the lowest of all mag classes in PvE. Our rotation is noted as not being very easy as well. There is very little reason to bring one apart from "i like it".

Crystallised Slab is *** useless. people try to argue that it has infinite range but that really doesn't matter. Because It doesn't hit hard whatsoever (less than half of a spammable) and the other morph provides major heroism. Frozen Gate is a tank skill for pulling enemies towards you like silver leash. But it doesn't need 2 morphs for it. A burst trap rework idea for Frozen Retreat that keeps the synergy is something we are working on.

I'll list our finalised frost specific idea changes that benefit PvE (please note that numbers here are placeholders and may be too low/high):

Crystallized Swords:

Embrace Atmora's Power giving you and nearby allies minor courage for 15 seconds. While active, Applying chilled on an enemy summons an ice sword around you. This can occur once every 3 seconds. You can have up to 3 swords at a time.

At any time after 1 sword is summoned, you can fire the swords to bombard an enemy. The first sword deals 230 frost damage. The second sword deals 330 frost damage. The final sword deals 410 frost damage and up to +150% more damage to targets below 50% health

this is a rework for a delayed burst/proc skill that deals frost damage. it also provides another execute to help us (if poison injection swarm doesn't work out) and it also provides minor courage for the group which is a really helpful skill to use. while relying on chilled like DK relies on burning/poisoned. Magden will be the only one to make real use out of this skill.

Glacial Presence rework idea:

---Rank I

Increase chance of applying Chilled to enemies with Winter's Embrace abilities by 100%.

Your critical damage against Chilled enemies is increased by 5%

---Rank II

Increase chance of applying Chilled to enemies with Winter's Embrace abilities by 200%

Your critical damage against Chilled enemies is increased by 10%

This was a passive buff idea to make chilled actually useful for the DD. and to make chilled really something buffed by the ICE class. also see above idea for a skill that relies on Warden's chilled proc. Wardens spoken to about this liked passive idea more than anything else we suggested as it fit with a "frost should be the dagger of the elemental magic" mentality.

Arctic Wind + Morphs were meant to recieve a PvE focused buff idea but this was ruined when the morph was destroyed in Murkmire. we may be able to salvage it with the Arctic Wind Master Plan.

We also intend Expansive Frost Cloak to gain a frost damage benefit of some sort. but we don't know how just yet. we've talked about a Flames Of Oblivion-like rework and about it inheriting old blast's AoE but mag scaling. But we just don't know yet.

alexj4596b14_ESO

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Nerouyn wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

we are very visually unique, sure but we are punished for what we bring especially in pve. in pvp a stamden can do our job better even though it's down to preference of what we like to look at. but you can argue that stamden looks the same as us just with a sword instead of a staff. our burst is so much worse than other classes in pvp not because it hits bad numbers but because it's just so easy to see coming. our skills are mostly raw damage! we absolutely need more help. we are punished with a lack of skills because of ZOS'S "UGHUGHUH DPS/HEAL/TANK line" idea which they broke by rightfully (i might add) giving us winter's revenge as a good dps skill rather than:

Winter's Revenge – Skewer enemies with icy shards in a 6-meter radius, dealing Frost Damage in an area within 28 meters to 6 targets every second over 12 seconds and reducing Movement Speed by 30% for 3 seconds. Damage done is based on your Max Health. Lower Magicka cost.

^ this.... thing?

my warden ideas are based around giving magden more dps skills to work with, group viability in pve and a bit of passive help in winter's embrace.

You keep saying PvE sucks and you want better for PvE but in terms of concrete examples you only speak of PvP.

In PvE mag wardens are functionally magnificent - see my previous example about soloing a virgin public dungeon in crappy light armor and without many passives - albeit boring as hell courtesy of their pitifully low number of damage abilities and the similarly pitiful low number of non class magic damage abilities.

They need to be played differently from other classes but if you play them right they are gods in PvE.

Deep Fissure + Elemental Blockade + Winter's Revenge is very effective. Even without any associated passives. Which is what I'm running at the moment because I'm playing one of my wardens with not many skill points collected and a lot of those in crafting because that's what I'm working on atm.

Daedric Tomb + Lightning Splash + Volatile Familiar Pulse is the equivalent on my sorc and they're comparably effective. The difference is that my sorc h

I am honest-to-Azura seriously considering throwing in the towel on wardens (even though I have 9!) so added up the number of class abilities with some damage (on at least one morph) recently.

Dragonknight - 12
Nightblade - 9
Sorcerer - 11
Templar - 11
Warden - 6

Warden's 6 is effectively 4 though. Like with DK one of the damage abilities - Crystallized Slab - is a ranged attack reflect. Not every mob has ranged attacks and even if they do, they might target other players or your bear rather than you. Frozen Gate is something you could reliably use for damage but when I'm in light armour I typically don't want to teleport mobs right on top of me. Impractical / suicidal.

They aren't as good as other classes in PvE. They don't offer much in the terms of group viability. toughness can be brought by all wardens and other classes make better use of master architect. They also hit the lowest of all mag classes in PvE. Our rotation is noted as not being very easy as well. There is very little reason to bring one apart from "i like it".

Crystallised Slab is *** useless. people try to argue that it has infinite range but that really doesn't matter. Because It doesn't hit hard whatsoever (less than half of a spammable) and the other morph provides major heroism. Frozen Gate is a tank skill for pulling enemies towards you like silver leash. But it doesn't need 2 morphs for it. A burst trap rework idea for Frozen Retreat that keeps the synergy is something we are working on.

I'll list our finalised frost specific idea changes that benefit PvE (please note that numbers here are placeholders and may be too low/high):

Crystallized Swords:

Embrace Atmora's Power giving you and nearby allies minor courage for 15 seconds. While active, Applying chilled on an enemy summons an ice sword around you. This can occur once every 3 seconds. You can have up to 3 swords at a time.

At any time after 1 sword is summoned, you can fire the swords to bombard an enemy. The first sword deals 230 frost damage. The second sword deals 330 frost damage. The final sword deals 410 frost damage and up to +150% more damage to targets below 50% health

this is a rework for a delayed burst/proc skill that deals frost damage. it also provides another execute to help us (if poison injection swarm doesn't work out) and it also provides minor courage for the group which is a really helpful skill to use. while relying on chilled like DK relies on burning/poisoned. Magden will be the only one to make real use out of this skill.

Glacial Presence rework idea:

---Rank I

Increase chance of applying Chilled to enemies with Winter's Embrace abilities by 100%.

Your critical damage against Chilled enemies is increased by 5%

---Rank II

Increase chance of applying Chilled to enemies with Winter's Embrace abilities by 200%

Your critical damage against Chilled enemies is increased by 10%

This was a passive buff idea to make chilled actually useful for the DD. and to make chilled really something buffed by the ICE class. also see above idea for a skill that relies on Warden's chilled proc. Wardens spoken to about this liked passive idea more than anything else we suggested as it fit with a "frost should be the dagger of the elemental magic" mentality.

Arctic Wind + Morphs were meant to recieve a PvE focused buff idea but this was ruined when the morph was destroyed in Murkmire. we may be able to salvage it with the Arctic Wind Master Plan.

We also intend Expansive Frost Cloak to gain a frost damage benefit of some sort. but we don't know how just yet. we've talked about a Flames Of Oblivion-like rework and about it inheriting old blast's AoE but mag scaling. But we just don't know yet.

I really like all these changes, the sword idea really cool. My only complaint is that the beetles need their z access raised by half meter to meter. If you are fighting on uneven ground it's not very effective and can be avoidable quite easy.

MLGProPlayer

MinarasLaure wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MinarasLaure wrote: »

I don't know much about stamden as I only play magden, but for what I see in pvp, and what I hear from pve, doesn't seem like they need buffs, which is probably why it'll be very hard to buff magden.
Under a pvp pov stamden is perfectly fine or maybe a bit op, while magdens need an execute, but that skill must be appealing only to magdens, so a magicka morph of a class skill maybe?
I was thinking of fetcher infection, raise the cost, leave the dmg over time the way it is (low) but make it trigger a x points of dmg explosion while the enemy is under x% of health

Magden is far from overpowered. "poison injection swarm" is universally accepted as a "good idea"

Correct, but at the same time it'll be really hard to buff magden without breaking stamden.

That's why we have morphs.

LeHarrt91

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

MinarasLaure wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MinarasLaure wrote: »

I don't know much about stamden as I only play magden, but for what I see in pvp, and what I hear from pve, doesn't seem like they need buffs, which is probably why it'll be very hard to buff magden.
Under a pvp pov stamden is perfectly fine or maybe a bit op, while magdens need an execute, but that skill must be appealing only to magdens, so a magicka morph of a class skill maybe?
I was thinking of fetcher infection, raise the cost, leave the dmg over time the way it is (low) but make it trigger a x points of dmg explosion while the enemy is under x% of health

Magden is far from overpowered. "poison injection swarm" is universally accepted as a "good idea"

Correct, but at the same time it'll be really hard to buff magden without breaking stamden.

That's why we have morphs.

And certain skills that a Stamden doesnt use.... Winters Revenge and Swarm.

Nerouyn

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

They aren't as good as other classes in PvE.

I'll say it again.

In PvE they're not worse than other classes in terms of damage.

Admittedly I've mostly just been playing just sorc other than warden recently, but warden is if anything slightly better / easier. And my sorc has points in his passives. My warden doesn't other than for a few of the light armor ones.

They are just worse than other classes in terms of lack of DPS options.

ESO_Nightingale

Nerouyn wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

They aren't as good as other classes in PvE.

I'll say it again.

In PvE they're not worse than other classes in terms of damage.

Admittedly I've mostly just been playing just sorc other than warden recently, but warden is if anything slightly better / easier. And my sorc has points in his passives. My warden doesn't other than for a few of the light armor ones.

They are just worse than other classes in terms of lack of DPS options.

Tell that to other people

ESO_Nightingale

alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Nerouyn wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

we are very visually unique, sure but we are punished for what we bring especially in pve. in pvp a stamden can do our job better even though it's down to preference of what we like to look at. but you can argue that stamden looks the same as us just with a sword instead of a staff. our burst is so much worse than other classes in pvp not because it hits bad numbers but because it's just so easy to see coming. our skills are mostly raw damage! we absolutely need more help. we are punished with a lack of skills because of ZOS'S "UGHUGHUH DPS/HEAL/TANK line" idea which they broke by rightfully (i might add) giving us winter's revenge as a good dps skill rather than:

Winter's Revenge – Skewer enemies with icy shards in a 6-meter radius, dealing Frost Damage in an area within 28 meters to 6 targets every second over 12 seconds and reducing Movement Speed by 30% for 3 seconds. Damage done is based on your Max Health. Lower Magicka cost.

^ this.... thing?

my warden ideas are based around giving magden more dps skills to work with, group viability in pve and a bit of passive help in winter's embrace.

You keep saying PvE sucks and you want better for PvE but in terms of concrete examples you only speak of PvP.

In PvE mag wardens are functionally magnificent - see my previous example about soloing a virgin public dungeon in crappy light armor and without many passives - albeit boring as hell courtesy of their pitifully low number of damage abilities and the similarly pitiful low number of non class magic damage abilities.

They need to be played differently from other classes but if you play them right they are gods in PvE.

Deep Fissure + Elemental Blockade + Winter's Revenge is very effective. Even without any associated passives. Which is what I'm running at the moment because I'm playing one of my wardens with not many skill points collected and a lot of those in crafting because that's what I'm working on atm.

Daedric Tomb + Lightning Splash + Volatile Familiar Pulse is the equivalent on my sorc and they're comparably effective. The difference is that my sorc h

I am honest-to-Azura seriously considering throwing in the towel on wardens (even though I have 9!) so added up the number of class abilities with some damage (on at least one morph) recently.

Dragonknight - 12
Nightblade - 9
Sorcerer - 11
Templar - 11
Warden - 6

Warden's 6 is effectively 4 though. Like with DK one of the damage abilities - Crystallized Slab - is a ranged attack reflect. Not every mob has ranged attacks and even if they do, they might target other players or your bear rather than you. Frozen Gate is something you could reliably use for damage but when I'm in light armour I typically don't want to teleport mobs right on top of me. Impractical / suicidal.

They aren't as good as other classes in PvE. They don't offer much in the terms of group viability. toughness can be brought by all wardens and other classes make better use of master architect. They also hit the lowest of all mag classes in PvE. Our rotation is noted as not being very easy as well. There is very little reason to bring one apart from "i like it".

Crystallised Slab is *** useless. people try to argue that it has infinite range but that really doesn't matter. Because It doesn't hit hard whatsoever (less than half of a spammable) and the other morph provides major heroism. Frozen Gate is a tank skill for pulling enemies towards you like silver leash. But it doesn't need 2 morphs for it. A burst trap rework idea for Frozen Retreat that keeps the synergy is something we are working on.

I'll list our finalised frost specific idea changes that benefit PvE (please note that numbers here are placeholders and may be too low/high):

Crystallized Swords:

Embrace Atmora's Power giving you and nearby allies minor courage for 15 seconds. While active, Applying chilled on an enemy summons an ice sword around you. This can occur once every 3 seconds. You can have up to 3 swords at a time.

At any time after 1 sword is summoned, you can fire the swords to bombard an enemy. The first sword deals 230 frost damage. The second sword deals 330 frost damage. The final sword deals 410 frost damage and up to +150% more damage to targets below 50% health

this is a rework for a delayed burst/proc skill that deals frost damage. it also provides another execute to help us (if poison injection swarm doesn't work out) and it also provides minor courage for the group which is a really helpful skill to use. while relying on chilled like DK relies on burning/poisoned. Magden will be the only one to make real use out of this skill.

Glacial Presence rework idea:

---Rank I

Increase chance of applying Chilled to enemies with Winter's Embrace abilities by 100%.

Your critical damage against Chilled enemies is increased by 5%

---Rank II

Increase chance of applying Chilled to enemies with Winter's Embrace abilities by 200%

Your critical damage against Chilled enemies is increased by 10%

This was a passive buff idea to make chilled actually useful for the DD. and to make chilled really something buffed by the ICE class. also see above idea for a skill that relies on Warden's chilled proc. Wardens spoken to about this liked passive idea more than anything else we suggested as it fit with a "frost should be the dagger of the elemental magic" mentality.

Arctic Wind + Morphs were meant to recieve a PvE focused buff idea but this was ruined when the morph was destroyed in Murkmire. we may be able to salvage it with the Arctic Wind Master Plan.

We also intend Expansive Frost Cloak to gain a frost damage benefit of some sort. but we don't know how just yet. we've talked about a Flames Of Oblivion-like rework and about it inheriting old blast's AoE but mag scaling. But we just don't know yet.

I really like all these changes, the sword idea really cool. My only complaint is that the beetles need their z access raised by half meter to meter. If you are fighting on uneven ground it's not very effective and can be avoidable quite easy.

Thanks! Its my version of @Ahala 's idea. So its original in the sense of the bombard mechanics and damage but the original ice sword summoning "crystallized sword" idea is his.

Ysbriel

Nerouyn wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

They aren't as good as other classes in PvE.

I'll say it again.

In PvE they're not worse than other classes in terms of damage.

Admittedly I've mostly just been playing just sorc other than warden recently, but warden is if anything slightly better / easier. And my sorc has points in his passives. My warden doesn't other than for a few of the light armor ones.

They are just worse than other classes in terms of lack of DPS options.

You are saying they are not worst than others in terms if damage but in lack of DPS, mind you that id you don’t like group content as you said, any build with any class can simply do the overland content bu LA,LA cast a Skill bamm mobs gone, i use My Tank on the overland Solo play with no points into any Damage CP my weapon damage is about 1.2k and i can clear out any delve and public dungeon. The Problem With the Magden in particular is when it comes to participating in other PvE content such as Vet Dungeons and Trials, that is what it makes them worst than any other class. I would definitely First pick any of my other characters to join up into Group content, i might run the Magden on BGs online for the survivability. I’ve been running my Warden “Valeska Skovgaard” Since the Class was launched, basically i Went Stam, Mag, Stam, Mag Stam Mag Tank, Stam Tank. At first i thought i was being effective in the early normal dungeons and because i was running on delves, but when i started running with my guild basically The guild leaders by checking the Dps % let me know that even though the i was doing all the rotations right, i was simply not doing sufficient Damage so it was back to the notepad for me, and it all went back into, you NEED either Necropotence/julianos and no ice and mostly Staff skills or Necropotence/Winterborn if you want to make ice viable. Just look at most of the builds done when it comes to Magden in particular, they are all the same and if you have a class that has “raw damage” but with delays, and also lack of DPS plus utility skills that have to be replaced , no reliable HoTs, the biggest goup heal and AoE damage you will find are both Ultimates, then there is in fact something wrong with this class and ZOS should had particularly fixed this class skill issues and common complaints about it instead of trying to put out a New Class. But the problem here is that the Warden was not a class of much fandom around it, unlike the other class that are more abundant and the upcoming Necro that everyone is waiting for.

on END GAME LEVEL not EASY OVERLAND
Frozen gate is trash pull
Artic blast is trash snare and heal for cost
Winters Revenge radius is to small and underwhelming in damage
Scorch take to long to pop.
Racers are slow unless you stack up on speed potions.
The flies are single target and only will spread when effect ends,
no other Significant AoE skills
The shrooms look more like the Warden is Suggesting a heal than actually doing it.

The Class needs help and specially the Mag side of things.

MLGProPlayer

Nerouyn wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

They aren't as good as other classes in PvE.

I'll say it again.

In PvE they're not worse than other classes in terms of damage.

Admittedly I've mostly just been playing just sorc other than warden recently, but warden is if anything slightly better / easier. And my sorc has points in his passives. My warden doesn't other than for a few of the light armor ones.

They are just worse than other classes in terms of lack of DPS options.

Magden is objectively worse than the other classes. They simply can't reach the same DPS numbers. They're closer than they were in the past, but still not there.

MooseKnuckles88

Accept it or not, but magdens are a decent support class if you're good at your rotation. But that's all we'll be, a secondary support dps class. If you want to be the front runner dps, it's not gonna be a magden even though I wouldn't mind just for one update that we had the spot light.

Nerouyn

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Tell that to other people

This ain't a private conversation. We're on the interwebz.

I am telling!

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Magden is objectively worse than the other classes.

Categorically untrue. I've been playing my mag sorc and warden a lot lately. The sorc with a lot more skill points and all passives. My warden with not many, many of those in crafting, and very few passives.

They're comparable and if anything my warden is slightly more kick arse.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

They simply can't reach the same DPS numbers. They're closer than they were in the past, but still not there.

Let me guess - you're talking about one of those number crunching bunnies whacking off on their dummy in the privacy of their home?

If that's what they're or you're into I won't judge. Truly. That's between you all and the dummy.

But dummy whacking is fundamentally artificial. In both PvE and PvP opponents move. You know what wardens are really good at? Hindering movement.

With the amount of chills and immobilizations I dish out, most opponents have little to no freedom of movement. That means I rarely I have to waste time and magicka healing myself, i.e. that's more time and magicka for damage. It also means I can maximise the potential of our heavy hitting Deep Fissure by typically hitting everything with it.

i.e. warden's crowd control elements in actual gameplay translate into more damage. You'll never see that reflected in dummy statistics.