The 1-GCD Sorc Gank Builds are Extremely Overperforming

Thogard

OGLezard wrote: »

What's glitchy about frags on the over load bar? I don't get it lol if you are doing the blob build you need blast not frags and you have to hard cast it lol

I think the build is hilarious

youre right its been so long since i played my sorc that i forgotsies.

OGLezard

Thogard wrote: »

OGLezard wrote: »

What's glitchy about frags on the over load bar? I don't get it lol if you are doing the blob build you need blast not frags and you have to hard cast it lol

I think the build is hilarious

youre right its been so long since i played my sorc that i forgotsies.

Blast has an arc and over load light attack travels in a straight line. So if you cast blast first then light attack, they hit at the same time

There are a couple worse combos out there tbh, but this one is for sure annoying and I can proudly say that some days I enjoy doing it for the lulz

Jimmy_The_Fixer

brandonv516 wrote: »

I LOVE fighting Magsorcs using Overload when I'm on my Magplar. Total Dark and Defensive Posture are very nice to have!

Total dark is strong, but it's actually weaker against overload than it is against non-overloading sorcs. Since a non-overloading sorc is weaving light attacks with their abilities, so it'll hit them twice per GCD instead of once.

IZZEFlameLash

Thogard wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

EXCUSE ME, it takes more than 1 second of GCD if you use execute.

On the receiving end not the giving end. Kind of like how my DBoS + Dizzy + reverse slice all hits inside of one GCD

Yeah, you are right. ZOS codemagic at work. Man, I am kinda glad that this playstyle is back and not at the same time.

Minalan

The problem with overload:

Elegance set: +20% overload damage
Bound weapons slotted: +11% overload damage
Empower: +40% overload damage
Rune cage: makes the above overload shot hit unavoidable.

I’ve also heard somewhere that overload double dips into the physical damage CP, but I haven’t verified that. If so, that makes it even more hilarious.

I’m not saying nerf overload, but it should NOT benefit from light attack buffs.

Problem solved.

Emma_Overload

Nobody I'm trying to kill lets me stand there and hard cast anything. Just trying to hit any competent stamina build with an overload is laughably difficult.

Thogard

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Nobody I'm trying to kill lets me stand there and hard cast anything. Just trying to hit any competent stamina build with an overload is laughably difficult.

cool so you wouldn't be affected if this was adjusted.

but no seriously this is a bigger problem in small scale where the sorc is being a sneakyboi in the backline. maybe even using crouch, who knows.

Solariken

Thogard wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Nobody I'm trying to kill lets me stand there and hard cast anything. Just trying to hit any competent stamina build with an overload is laughably difficult.

cool so you wouldn't be affected if this was adjusted.

but no seriously this is a bigger problem in small scale where the sorc is being a sneakyboi in the backline. maybe even using crouch, who knows.

Lol sneakybois indeed - these dudes in BG's streak away and invis pot whenever someone looks at them. They're like the ghosts from Mario.

Waylander

It's a gank build. Get caught, take the L, survive the burst and you get the W.

I think it overperforms for a gank, but its not wiping groups solo or 1vXing. Same could be said for a wrecking blow into onslaught, however they can't do it from a distance, or even a decent snipe > ambush > incap/onslaught.

I do like to see non-nb ganks for a change.

As a competent player with a sufficient amount of health, its annoying to be effectively 100-0 in 1 gcd, but fool me once etc. I am sure you went back and toweled said sorc up.

In small group, they can turn the odds pretty quick, but they are a one trick pony with totally dodge-able offense.

NBrookus

It's not new, it's just trendy. It's been possible since One Tamriel. It's fun as a niche build, but squishy AF. And yes, I've one-shot myself from picking the wrong target or timing.

Ganks happen. Why is everyone up in arms because sorcs can do it? When I ran an mDK gank build, all the salt about cheating? Ganks are not just for nightblades.

@kromegas It's not an open world kind of build. Ditch all the recovery for more damage.

DHale

I only wished my sorc put out half as much damage as my nightblade.... oopsss wrong thread. My bad.

Brutusmax1mus

Wait, the empower will applies to overload?

Thogard

Waylander wrote: »

It's a gank build. Get caught, take the L, survive the burst and you get the W.

I think it overperforms for a gank, but its not wiping groups solo or 1vXing. Same could be said for a wrecking blow into onslaught, however they can't do it from a distance, or even a decent snipe > ambush > incap/onslaught.

I do like to see non-nb ganks for a change.

As a competent player with a sufficient amount of health, its annoying to be effectively 100-0 in 1 gcd, but fool me once etc. I am sure you went back and toweled said sorc up.

In small group, they can turn the odds pretty quick, but they are a one trick pony with totally dodge-able offense.

well that's the thing - this is infinitely spammable, whereas the other "gank" setups aren't.

Also pairs really really well with defensive rune or mines. One of my buddies was running it and one shotting everyone and im pretty sure he was using reactive, frags, and overload rather than crystal blast. not 100% though i'll have to ask.

Feanor

It’s not that every Sorc worth a grain of salt called that pre Summerset. ZOS apparently is fine with it - they promote playstyles with less and less counterplay the last few patches. Them new players gotta feel powerful too you know.

wheem_ESO

I ate an Overload Light Attack for > 10k damage the other day in a Domination Battleground (ergo, no sigil). Very balance. Much wow.

GrigorijMalahevich

Nerf overload damage, nobody cares.

Beardimus

@Thogard sorry to burst your bubble but you aren't 'out in front of anything' players have been doing this for an age. He'll Blobsky even made a build about which people tried to copy and just died alot. Nothing new here.

If you don't want it to be common, don't start a thread about it with sensational subject line as potatoes are sheep.

DrFail

Look up Blobski's shocket launcher build he even explains the whole thing I saw his build when he first posted it it's on his channel.

Jsmalls

You should have joined the hundreds of magSorcs laughing on PTS when they changed the empower to work with light attacks @ 40%. Zip, zip, dead. We brought this concern up in the sorcerer balance forums along with RC over performing. We were literally laughing saying is this what they want us doing? They changed the imbue weapons portion, but left the real killer 40% empower alive and strong.

Can't blame magSorcs at this point. We're just using our low cost single target burst Ultimate that we've asked so long for

Thogard

Jsmalls wrote: »

You should have joined the hundreds of magSorcs laughing on PTS when they changed the empower to work with light attacks @ 40%. Zip, zip, dead. We brought this concern up in the sorcerer balance forums along with RC over performing. We were literally laughing saying is this what they want us doing? They changed the imbue weapons portion, but left the real killer 40% empower alive and strong.

Can't blame magSorcs at this point. We're just using our low cost single target burst Ultimate that we've asked so long for

Even when not in overload and not using empower, sorc light attacks got a lot stronger due to the scaling changes with max resources... and sorcs tends to have really high Mag pools.

Edit: which I’m ok with. Sorcs needed it imo. They were in a bad place before. It’s the overload spam that is overturned.

greenmachine

So we all agree sorcs need a nerf big time because of their all out dominance in PvP, but how can we make it so the nerf hits PvE sorcs even harder? Maybe all dungeon and raid bosses could reflect 100% of sorc damage back to the caster? Boom! PvP balance achieved!

OGLezard

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Nobody I'm trying to kill lets me stand there and hard cast anything. Just trying to hit any competent stamina build with an overload is laughably difficult.

That's why it's a gank build and you use stealth to get bonus damage, invis pots to reset.

LittlePinkDot

Thogard wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Poor console players with their gamepads.. with their much heightened situational awareness due to the lack of an addon to tell them when projectiles are coming.. with their sharpened reflexes honed from having to listen for the subtle audio que of a snipe being launched from max range, or a crystal frag being hardcasted from stealth... Someone get those peasants a miat's.

/s

Miats was disabled a while ago man... but even if it wasn’t console wouldn’t need it, they just need a mouse so they can look behind them without wasting 5 seconds.

Console is ridiculously less situationally aware due to the significantly increased time it takes them to pan the camara and that’s why I don’t watch their streams - it makes me so nervous because they can’t check their blind spots without losing their target lol.

So yes it will hurt console more because console players won’t see it coming as easily.

Yeahhh that's quite a few misconceptions I imagine are formed from inexperience. Have you played on console? Used a controller perhaps?

I personally have several custom gamepads, and anyone who is serious enough to stream should probably invest in one aswell. You can adjust your stick dead zones, acceleration rate, actual sensitivity, etc. Watch some of "React Faster"s clips and youll see that my camera pans at
more or less the same rate as many popular PC streamers. Situational awareness isn't based exclusively on your visual ability, it comes also from learning the audio ques and animations associated with every ability/proc/effect in the game. PC players are complacent when it comes to this, as up until this patch they had live combat information spoon fed to them in large, impossible to miss ques from their respective add-ons. Even ques such as "break free" "dodge now" etc are not available on console and due to the much more significant lag, it can be difficult to even know that you've been ccd in certain situations were there is not a visual or audio affect for you to associate with a cc. Quick reaction time and ability to distinguish different affects and audio ques, aswell as in depth game knowledge separate the good players from the bad on console.

But as for the sorc gank build, I hope to see them on console. 9/10 times anyone using overload is more or less clueless.

Who would be a good console streamer for me to watch? I’d love watch one without getting claustrophobic

Can you explain this clausterphobia on console?
Are you thinking they all play in 1st person?
I dont get it. I can play with the camera view out as far as it can go and I can see 360 degrees around me, I do not need turn around.

Another question off topic, I noticed you said you use dizzying swing plus reverse slice. Why reverse slice and not executioner?
My stamwarden doesnt have an execute, so why use reverse slice?

Minalan

Jsmalls wrote: »

You should have joined the hundreds of magSorcs laughing on PTS when they changed the empower to work with light attacks @ 40%. Zip, zip, dead. We brought this concern up in the sorcerer balance forums along with RC over performing. We were literally laughing saying is this what they want us doing? They changed the imbue weapons portion, but left the real killer 40% empower alive and strong.

Can't blame magSorcs at this point. We're just using our low cost single target burst Ultimate that we've asked so long for

ZOS was warned. Repeatedly. I admit to have used overload on a few occasions when some genius attacks me out of stealth when I’m on my overload bar trying to meditate or something.

The hate tells have been really juicy.

If ZOS cared they would stop light attack bonuses from affecting O/L LA

montiferus

Liam12548 wrote: »

Yeahhh that's quite a few misconceptions I imagine are formed from inexperience. Have you played on console? Used a controller perhaps?

I personally have several custom gamepads, and anyone who is serious enough to stream should probably invest in one aswell. You can adjust your stick dead zones, acceleration rate, actual sensitivity, etc. Watch some of "React Faster"s clips and youll see that my camera pans at
more or less the same rate as many popular PC streamers. Situational awareness isn't based exclusively on your visual ability, it comes also from learning the audio ques and animations associated with every ability/proc/effect in the game. PC players are complacent when it comes to this, as up until this patch they had live combat information spoon fed to them in large, impossible to miss ques from their respective add-ons. Even ques such as "break free" "dodge now" etc are not available on console and due to the much more significant lag, it can be difficult to even know that you've been ccd in certain situations were there is not a visual or audio affect for you to associate with a cc. Quick reaction time and ability to distinguish different affects and audio ques, aswell as in depth game knowledge separate the good players from the bad on console.

But as for the sorc gank build, I hope to see them on console. 9/10 times anyone using overload is more or less clueless.

Very well said. It gets really old hearing the perceived superiority PC players have over console.

Thogard

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Poor console players with their gamepads.. with their much heightened situational awareness due to the lack of an addon to tell them when projectiles are coming.. with their sharpened reflexes honed from having to listen for the subtle audio que of a snipe being launched from max range, or a crystal frag being hardcasted from stealth... Someone get those peasants a miat's.

/s

Miats was disabled a while ago man... but even if it wasn’t console wouldn’t need it, they just need a mouse so they can look behind them without wasting 5 seconds.

Console is ridiculously less situationally aware due to the significantly increased time it takes them to pan the camara and that’s why I don’t watch their streams - it makes me so nervous because they can’t check their blind spots without losing their target lol.

So yes it will hurt console more because console players won’t see it coming as easily.

Yeahhh that's quite a few misconceptions I imagine are formed from inexperience. Have you played on console? Used a controller perhaps?

I personally have several custom gamepads, and anyone who is serious enough to stream should probably invest in one aswell. You can adjust your stick dead zones, acceleration rate, actual sensitivity, etc. Watch some of "React Faster"s clips and youll see that my camera pans at
more or less the same rate as many popular PC streamers. Situational awareness isn't based exclusively on your visual ability, it comes also from learning the audio ques and animations associated with every ability/proc/effect in the game. PC players are complacent when it comes to this, as up until this patch they had live combat information spoon fed to them in large, impossible to miss ques from their respective add-ons. Even ques such as "break free" "dodge now" etc are not available on console and due to the much more significant lag, it can be difficult to even know that you've been ccd in certain situations were there is not a visual or audio affect for you to associate with a cc. Quick reaction time and ability to distinguish different affects and audio ques, aswell as in depth game knowledge separate the good players from the bad on console.

But as for the sorc gank build, I hope to see them on console. 9/10 times anyone using overload is more or less clueless.

Who would be a good console streamer for me to watch? I’d love watch one without getting claustrophobic

Can you explain this clausterphobia on console?
Are you thinking they all play in 1st person?
I dont get it. I can play with the camera view out as far as it can go and I can see 360 degrees around me, I do not need turn around.

Another question off topic, I noticed you said you use dizzying swing plus reverse slice. Why reverse slice and not executioner?
My stamwarden doesnt have an execute, so why use reverse slice?

You know when you watch horror movies and the person is looking forward, and while you can’t see a monster, you just know that one is lurking slightly outside of the camera angle and is creeping up about to pounce?

That’s exactly how I feel when watching console streamers. They pan slowly. They can’t do a 360 no scope lol.

I use reverse slice because it’s AOE and I do mostly small scale 4vX or BG stuff. I’m not a great dueler.

OGLezard

montiferus wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Yeahhh that's quite a few misconceptions I imagine are formed from inexperience. Have you played on console? Used a controller perhaps?

I personally have several custom gamepads, and anyone who is serious enough to stream should probably invest in one aswell. You can adjust your stick dead zones, acceleration rate, actual sensitivity, etc. Watch some of "React Faster"s clips and youll see that my camera pans at
more or less the same rate as many popular PC streamers. Situational awareness isn't based exclusively on your visual ability, it comes also from learning the audio ques and animations associated with every ability/proc/effect in the game. PC players are complacent when it comes to this, as up until this patch they had live combat information spoon fed to them in large, impossible to miss ques from their respective add-ons. Even ques such as "break free" "dodge now" etc are not available on console and due to the much more significant lag, it can be difficult to even know that you've been ccd in certain situations were there is not a visual or audio affect for you to associate with a cc. Quick reaction time and ability to distinguish different affects and audio ques, aswell as in depth game knowledge separate the good players from the bad on console.

But as for the sorc gank build, I hope to see them on console. 9/10 times anyone using overload is more or less clueless.

Very well said. It gets really old hearing the perceived superiority PC players have over console.

Truth hurts yo.

P.s.

Master race says hi

Thogard

Edit: I need to stop getting baited into this argument so easily lol

montiferus wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Yeahhh that's quite a few misconceptions I imagine are formed from inexperience. Have you played on console? Used a controller perhaps?

I personally have several custom gamepads, and anyone who is serious enough to stream should probably invest in one aswell. You can adjust your stick dead zones, acceleration rate, actual sensitivity, etc. Watch some of "React Faster"s clips and youll see that my camera pans at
more or less the same rate as many popular PC streamers. Situational awareness isn't based exclusively on your visual ability, it comes also from learning the audio ques and animations associated with every ability/proc/effect in the game. PC players are complacent when it comes to this, as up until this patch they had live combat information spoon fed to them in large, impossible to miss ques from their respective add-ons. Even ques such as "break free" "dodge now" etc are not available on console and due to the much more significant lag, it can be difficult to even know that you've been ccd in certain situations were there is not a visual or audio affect for you to associate with a cc. Quick reaction time and ability to distinguish different affects and audio ques, aswell as in depth game knowledge separate the good players from the bad on console.

But as for the sorc gank build, I hope to see them on console. 9/10 times anyone using overload is more or less clueless.

Very well said. It gets really old hearing the perceived superiority PC players have over console.

Eh... the console player started it, What with your “superior reflexes” and how all PC players are bad because of crunching on the Miat’s addon.

Console pans more slowly. That’s just how it is. Walking through your target to break a dizzy swing is a viable strat on console. It doesn’t work on PC.

You guys act like we don’t have gamepad users on PC. We do, and I group with more than a few of them. They’re my friends and @raknorok is even in my guild. I’m not saying they’re bad because they’re not... if they were, I wouldn’t group with them. I’m just saying that it is physically impossible for them to pan as fast as on Mouse and still have aiming accuracy.

I didn’t even say that in OP. All I said in OP is that they have to block first before roll dodging because of the controller layout. AFAIK that’s 100% true. Plz let me know if it isn’t.

maryriv

Thogard wrote: »

EDIT/DISCLAIMER: this is not a nerf sorc thread. 95% of sorcs don’t use overload as their main source of damage. 100% of good sorcs don’t. This is about a particular build that utilizes overload + hardcast frags. If you don’t hardcast your frags, don’t get defensive... and if you do get defensive because you do hardcast your frags... don’t tell me to learn to play... I mean, you’re the one hard casting frags ...

Anyway, Thank god not many people have caught on yet.

I figured I'd get out in front of this one and make a "nerf" or a "qq" thread first.

Anyway, the combo is a glitchy c-frag done on the overload bar in such a way that the overload light attack and the cfrag hit around the same time. put an execute on first and voila.

my 27k HP heavy armor stam DK in full impen got dropped in less than a second.

Old normal - overload builds were squishy because to stack max mag meant weak light attacks, and to stack light attack dmg meant weak shields.

New normal - Why not both?

EDIT: do i need to "git good"? yeah. Could i have roll dodged it? yeah. Could i have one shot the sorc right back by reflecting it? yeah.. and it's hilarious when a the mag sorc i play with who started this whole craze whines about that happening to him because he EXPLODES.

but just because I still have to git good doesn't mean we can ignore the poor console players with their gamepads. They're so helpless with those gamepads. They have to block first just to rolldodge... thats not very easy for them they'll get blown up with no rebuttal.... let's end this tragedy before it begins.

TL: DR: nerf sorc. (but really just overload light attacks)

So you are complaining about some crazy niche build... brilliant LOL.

Dovahmiim

Lmao people have been doing this for years, even Blobs version "shocket launcher" was just an attempt at imitating an Overload sorc he saw dueling at a Legend tourny. I think last patch for example it was in a good/balanced spot, you had to invest absolutely everything in to min/maxing that overload if you wanted to score a gank on anyone competent.

But this patch brought the following changes: Bound Armaments (+11% LA dmg), Rune Prison overperforming (not only with Overload, but even more so with Meteor combo), Empower now being 40% instead of 20%, and Heavy Weapons CP boosting overload damage. The overload playstyle last patch was extremely high risk high reward, but now this patch it is definitely way too easy. If ZoS does intend to nerf this spec to perform roughly how it did last patch, care needs to be taken not to render one of the only remaining "niche" playstyles in the game useless.