It's Time To Make Vamparism More Punishing

Aliyavana

a lot of players are against hiding vamparism because they consider it a drawback but would probably qq if they were forced to slot a vampire ability, a REAL drawback, in order to get the benefits of regen. "Embrace vampirism" is the argument. So the anti hide vampirism crowd should really embrace it and be forced to slot a vampire ability as one of the draw backs of vampirism just like the old days. At this point the majority of people only consider vampirism as a stat increase and many don't care about the cosmetics and the drawback isn't bad enough and so take advantage of the stat increase vampirism without even touching the full power of vamprism. atleast with this change people will not feel forced to take advantage and ruin their appearance they spent a considerable amount of time tweaking before ruining it with a skin that leaves your fur, skin, and tatoos bleached. Really eso has one of the worst incarnations of vampirism appearance wise.

Lore reasons (illusion magic, blending in with mortals, ingame explanations) and gameplay mechanics (Skins that hide vamparism already...) doesnt matter apparently and yet We can already hide our heavy armor by looking like we have light armor, or wear a wedding dress on a tank. I can make my axes look like daggers and still inflict bleeds on my opponents. I can hide my zaans and pretty soon i can even change my gear to look like monster sets which make a bigger difference in gameplay but yet hide vamparism is a huge no to them yet probably use the outfit system to hide their real gear. I think this change would help purge a huge number of players that treat vampirism like a stat increase with little drawback and less people will feel forced to ruin their characters appearance with it.

Aesthier

I say just make the change appearance token from the crown store actually override the graphical effects of vampirism.

ZoS makes money and those who want to change it can.

Nuff said.

Aliyavana

Aesthier wrote: »

I say just make the change appearance token from the crown store actually override the graphical effects of vampirism.

ZoS makes money and those who want to change it can.

Nuff said.

id pay 5k crowns for a hide vampirism skin or a normal skin with vampire eyes like harkon or serena is fine as well.

jlmurra2

Maybe the stat bonus should be reduced or removed in the daytime, and increased at night.

Aliyavana

jlmurra2 wrote: »

Maybe the stat bonus should be reduced or removed in the daytime, and increased at night.

lore has it so that this strain of vampirism doesn't have drawbacks of having negative aspects in the sunlight

DeadlyRecluse

As long as half of cyrodiil is slamming dawnbreakers down, I consider the extra damage from that to be sufficient in terms of vampire drawbacks.

Aliyavana

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

As long as half of cyrodiil is slamming dawnbreakers down, I consider the extra damage from that to be sufficient in terms of vampire drawbacks.

sounds like that is sufficient punishment enough to add a hide vampirism skin then, seeing as they already risk a lot in cyrodil. From a pvp perspective some classes lack mobility and rely on mist form for getting away and those classes are mandatory to look ugly for mist form.

MLGProPlayer

Agreed. Vampirism has no meaningful gameplay drawbacks at the moment.

You get 10% resource regen in exchange for a little bit of extra fire damage (negated almost completely by CP passives) and slightly reduced health regen (the most useless stat in the game, you wouldn't notice its absence if it was at 0).

Rawkan

Agree. There's not enough of a punishment.

starkerealm

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Agreed. Vampirism has no meaningful gameplay drawbacks at the moment.

You get 10% resource regen in exchange for a little bit of extra fire damage (negated almost completely by CP passives) and slightly reduced health regen (the most useless stat in the game, you wouldn't notice its absence if it was at 0).

*Dawnbreaker of Smiting.*

*Scampers off.*

Sheezabeast

I think its high time that Vampirism was on even ground with being a Werewolf, in terms of how you HAVE to be in WW form to level the skill line. It's not fair, never has been.

I also think that if you're going to be a reanimated corpse of your own free will that maybe you should LOOK like one, for pete's sake!

Don't confuse this with nerfing Vampirism, I do not want to do that. I want to level the playing field for both.

Marginis

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Agreed. Vampirism has no meaningful gameplay drawbacks at the moment.

You get 10% resource regen in exchange for a little bit of extra fire damage (negated almost completely by CP passives) and slightly reduced health regen (the most useless stat in the game, you wouldn't notice its absence if it was at 0).

Tis a matter of opinion. Those are significant drawbacks for me, for just 10% resource recovery (which is as insignificant to me as you say health recovery is to you). I think that in terms of balance according to the numbers, vampirism strikes a good one between positives and negatives, or at least is not overpowered, considering all the hard counters. Anything beyond that ventures more into "this is how it affects me" territory.

Tasear

It's an reward for high level. Doing it at lower levels is painful.

MLGProPlayer

Marginis wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Agreed. Vampirism has no meaningful gameplay drawbacks at the moment.

You get 10% resource regen in exchange for a little bit of extra fire damage (negated almost completely by CP passives) and slightly reduced health regen (the most useless stat in the game, you wouldn't notice its absence if it was at 0).

Tis a matter of opinion. Those are significant drawbacks for me, for just 10% resource recovery (which is as insignificant to me as you say health recovery is to you). I think that in terms of balance according to the numbers, vampirism strikes a good one between positives and negatives, or at least is not overpowered, considering all the hard counters. Anything beyond that ventures more into "this is how it affects me" territory.

99.9% of endgame players are vampires. That wouldn't be the case if they had actual drawbacks. You're gimping yourself for endgame if you aren't a vampire.

Vercingetorix

Considering that we get our strain of Vampirism in ESO directly from the source (the first vampire), we are supposed to be stronger and more resilient than those with lesser strains of Vampirism. Appearance is a non-factor for many when there are an abundance of skins available to completely cover it up. The fire weakness is the primary drawback and it is significant enough that careless players can be killed by it. I see no issue with Vampirism in ESO as it is now. Werewolves on the other hand... they need some attention as there's hardly a reason for being one.

itscompton

I totally disagree with the assessment there are not enough drawbacks to being a Vampire. Try actually playing as one in PvP. The extra damage from fire is huge in Cyrodiil and I cured Vamparism on my main because I was sick of seeing eye of the storm fire damage on my recap for 25K plus. And fighting a MDK was a sure fire death sentence. My survivability skyrocketed after I cured myself. The regen isn't missed at all, what I do miss is the sneak speed.

MLGProPlayer

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Considering that we get our strain of Vampirism in ESO directly from the source (the first vampire), we are supposed to be stronger and more resilient than those with lesser strains of Vampirism. Appearance is a non-factor for many when there are an abundance of skins available to completely cover it up. The fire weakness is the primary drawback and it is significant enough that careless players can be killed by it. I see no issue with Vampirism in ESO as it is now. Werewolves on the other hand... they need some attention as there's hardly a reason for being one.

There is an issue with anything that becoems mandatory. Vampirism is effectively mandatory for endgame PvE because it has no drawbcaks there.

Why did ZOS nerf Mechanical Acuity? Because it was BiS for every build. Well, vampirism is currently BiS for every PvE build.

MLGProPlayer

itscompton wrote: »

I totally disagree with the assessment there are not enough drawbacks to being a Vampire. Try actually playing as one in PvP. The extra damage from fire is huge in Cyrodiil and I cured Vamparism on my main because I was sick of seeing eye of the storm fire damage on my recap for 25K plus. And fighting a MDK was a sure fire death sentence. My survivability skyrocketed after I cured myself. The regen isn't missed at all, what I do miss is the sneak speed.

That might be the case in PvP, but certainly not in PvE where vampirism is considered BiS. Fire damage in PvE is insignificant and predictable and CP passives negate almost all the extra damage.

starkerealm

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

I totally disagree with the assessment there are not enough drawbacks to being a Vampire. Try actually playing as one in PvP. The extra damage from fire is huge in Cyrodiil and I cured Vamparism on my main because I was sick of seeing eye of the storm fire damage on my recap for 25K plus. And fighting a MDK was a sure fire death sentence. My survivability skyrocketed after I cured myself. The regen isn't missed at all, what I do miss is the sneak speed.

That might be the case in PvP, but certainly not in PvE where vampirism is considered BiS. Fire damage in PvE is insignificant and predictable and CP passives negate almost all the extra damage.

Yeah, you do have a point here.

I think some of this comes down to the problem that ZOS vastly overestimates the value of health recovery. So that trading health for stam/magicka recovery is supposed to be a reasonable tradeoff, when we're actually giving up something we don't care about for things we really do.

itscompton

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

I totally disagree with the assessment there are not enough drawbacks to being a Vampire. Try actually playing as one in PvP. The extra damage from fire is huge in Cyrodiil and I cured Vamparism on my main because I was sick of seeing eye of the storm fire damage on my recap for 25K plus. And fighting a MDK was a sure fire death sentence. My survivability skyrocketed after I cured myself. The regen isn't missed at all, what I do miss is the sneak speed.

That might be the case in PvP, but certainly not in PvE where vampirism is considered BiS. Fire damage in PvE is insignificant and predictable and CP passives negate almost all the extra damage.

CP passives certainly do not negate the extra damage. All other things such as race and armor being equal the Vampire will still be taking 25% more damage from fire than the non-vamp. Since CP damage reduction applies to both vamp and non-vamp it's totally valid to say when you have 21K health and a fire damage mechanic hits you for 25K instead of 20K you died because you were a Vamp.

MLGProPlayer

itscompton wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

I totally disagree with the assessment there are not enough drawbacks to being a Vampire. Try actually playing as one in PvP. The extra damage from fire is huge in Cyrodiil and I cured Vamparism on my main because I was sick of seeing eye of the storm fire damage on my recap for 25K plus. And fighting a MDK was a sure fire death sentence. My survivability skyrocketed after I cured myself. The regen isn't missed at all, what I do miss is the sneak speed.

That might be the case in PvP, but certainly not in PvE where vampirism is considered BiS. Fire damage in PvE is insignificant and predictable and CP passives negate almost all the extra damage.

CP passives certainly do not negate the extra damage. All other things such as race and armor being equal the Vampire will still be taking 25% more damage from fire than the non-vamp. Since CP damage reduction applies to both vamp and non-vamp it's totally valid to say when you have 21K health and a fire damage mechanic hits you for 25K instead of 20K you died because you were a Vamp.

I can't think of a single PvE scenario where you can take unavoidable fire damage of that size though.

Jhalin

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

I totally disagree with the assessment there are not enough drawbacks to being a Vampire. Try actually playing as one in PvP. The extra damage from fire is huge in Cyrodiil and I cured Vamparism on my main because I was sick of seeing eye of the storm fire damage on my recap for 25K plus. And fighting a MDK was a sure fire death sentence. My survivability skyrocketed after I cured myself. The regen isn't missed at all, what I do miss is the sneak speed.

That might be the case in PvP, but certainly not in PvE where vampirism is considered BiS. Fire damage in PvE is insignificant and predictable and CP passives negate almost all the extra damage.

CP passives certainly do not negate the extra damage. All other things such as race and armor being equal the Vampire will still be taking 25% more damage from fire than the non-vamp. Since CP damage reduction applies to both vamp and non-vamp it's totally valid to say when you have 21K health and a fire damage mechanic hits you for 25K instead of 20K you died because you were a Vamp.

I can't think of a single PvE scenario where you can take unavoidable fire damage of that size though.

The burning DoTs and vHoF/vMoL will hit you much, much harder as a vamp. I have to take my healer down to Stage 1 for Twins and Triplets because the fire damage simply amps up too fast on them. Typically the Triplet’s fire AoE that applies it will kill you almost immediately anyway since half the time Purge doesn’t want to work the first time you cast it to cleanse the DoT applied by the flame waves.

red_emu

Vampirism should be changed into an Ultimate Vampire form skill, just like the warewolf.

itscompton

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

I totally disagree with the assessment there are not enough drawbacks to being a Vampire. Try actually playing as one in PvP. The extra damage from fire is huge in Cyrodiil and I cured Vamparism on my main because I was sick of seeing eye of the storm fire damage on my recap for 25K plus. And fighting a MDK was a sure fire death sentence. My survivability skyrocketed after I cured myself. The regen isn't missed at all, what I do miss is the sneak speed.

That might be the case in PvP, but certainly not in PvE where vampirism is considered BiS. Fire damage in PvE is insignificant and predictable and CP passives negate almost all the extra damage.

CP passives certainly do not negate the extra damage. All other things such as race and armor being equal the Vampire will still be taking 25% more damage from fire than the non-vamp. Since CP damage reduction applies to both vamp and non-vamp it's totally valid to say when you have 21K health and a fire damage mechanic hits you for 25K instead of 20K you died because you were a Vamp.

I can't think of a single PvE scenario where you can take unavoidable fire damage of that size though.

Maybe you're just so good all damage is avoidable to you but for us regular people the execute phase in VetHM DLC content seems pretty intense sometimes and we step left when we should have stayed still or gone right.

Gythral

Just bite the neck and stop whining!

Aesthier

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

99.9% of endgame players are vampires. That wouldn't be the case if they had actual drawbacks. You're gimping yourself for endgame if you aren't a vampire.

Your statistic is BS and I am calling it.

Grimhallow

In PvP Vampirism is balanced, and leaning towards being unbalanced against vampires.

I would only slot it if I absolutely needed batswarm or mist (i.e. a magicka DK). Otherwise the extra damage from fire and dawnbreakers is not worth it in the slightest. The sustain you get is pathetic, and undeath only comes into play of you have a ton of health. Nowadays I don't play vampirism at all.

I do agree that vampirism needs a rework- it's pretty underwhelming as is. But I'm not a big supporter of the OP's suggestions.

Marginis

Aesthier wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

99.9% of endgame players are vampires. That wouldn't be the case if they had actual drawbacks. You're gimping yourself for endgame if you aren't a vampire.

Your statistic is BS and I am calling it.

To be fair, a lot of the existing drawbacks are significantly less substantial when you don't take them into PVP, so you will see more vampires for PVE content. But yeah, that statistic is pulled from a place where the sun doesn't shine (for even non-vampires).

SolidusPrime

No thank you. Their drawbacks are already good enough in my opinion.

You mention negating fire damage w/ champion points - you don't think that in itself is a drawback? They aren't "ignoring" the fire vulnerability, they are dumping a bunch of champion points into a node to lessen it. I chose to put the points elsewhere and fire damage messes me up good. And like every other PvE fight has some type of fire in it. People are still flinging around Dawnbreakers like they are going out of style, too.

Joy_Division

If ZOS had done something to give mortals their own advantages / skillline, than being vampire or werewolf might actually be meaningful choices rather than a power-grab.

MLGProPlayer

SolidusPrime wrote: »

No thank you. Their drawbacks are already good enough in my opinion.

You mention negating fire damage w/ champion points - you don't think that in itself is a drawback? They aren't "ignoring" the fire vulnerability, they are dumping a bunch of champion points into a node to lessen it. I chose to put the points elsewhere and fire damage messes me up good. And like every other PvE fight has some type of fire in it. People are still flinging around Dawnbreakers like they are going out of style, too.

You put your CP into that line anyway.