Undo and Battle Roar

Ultimate_Overlord

How come undo is too strong combined with battle roar? Undo still returns the same amount of resources it would for any other class, and battle roar would still return the same amout of resources per ult point. Yes, sure, its a lot of resources gained in a short period of time, but there is no mathematical reason as to why undo on a dk would be stronger than any other class. Its like saying tripots+argonian is stronger than argonian+any other pot.

Alpheu5

Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »

How come undo is too strong combined with battle roar? Undo still returns the same amount of resources it would for any other class, and battle roar would still return the same amout of resources per ult point. Yes, sure, its a lot of resources gained in a short period of time, but there is no mathematical reason as to why undo on a dk would be stronger than any other class. Its like saying tripots+argonian is stronger than argonian+any other pot.

Undo would restore a flat 6486 resources in addition to whatever was undone. That by itself would make Undo stronger on a DK than any other class. And tripots on an Argonian are definitely stronger than any other potion on an Argonian on the fact that the passive restores more resources on top of the tripot than something like an invis+speed pot.

I think a better comparison would have been "It's like saying tripots are stronger on an Argonian than any other race".

Merlin13KAGL

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

I can't believe that people think this is fine. This ultimate is completely useless for all Dk builds if it doesn't proc Battle Roar.

Maybe you're confused as to the purpose behind this Ult?

You're using it for one of two reason, possibly both combined.

1. Repositioning. You're deciding, at the moment of cast if it's worth more to be where you were than where you are.
2. Resources (ironic, isn't it, since that's what you're effectively complaining about.) You're deciding in that instance if you'll be better in terms of resources.
   *Presumably, someone using this for option 2 would be timing it to go back to more resources, not less.

If the resources difference you had 4 seconds ago are worth less than what you would gain by Battle Roar, then don't use the ult. (Better yet, use your other ult.)

For this to be effective on any class, it will have to be timed and chosen situationally. A non-DK can mess up and burn the ult (no ult left now), be positioned in a worse spot, and have fewer resources than had the left it alone.

It has the same requirements, effects, and decisions to be made on DK as it does on any other class.

If you're really thinking it's useless, it's because you're not seeing the full potential (and the purpose) behind the ult.

It will do exactly the thing on a DK as it will on a Sorc, NB, Templar, or Warden.

(Actually) Working. As. Intended.

Ragnaroek93

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

I can't believe that people think this is fine. This ultimate is completely useless for all Dk builds if it doesn't proc Battle Roar.

Maybe you're confused as to the purpose behind this Ult?

You're using it for one of two reason, possibly both combined.

1. Repositioning. You're deciding, at the moment of cast if it's worth more to be where you were than where you are.
2. Resources (ironic, isn't it, since that's what you're effectively complaining about.) You're deciding in that instance if you'll be better in terms of resources.
   *Presumably, someone using this for option 2 would be timing it to go back to more resources, not less.

If the resources difference you had 4 seconds ago are worth less than what you would gain by Battle Roar, then don't use the ult. (Better yet, use your other ult.)

For this to be effective on any class, it will have to be timed and chosen situationally. A non-DK can mess up and burn the ult (no ult left now), be positioned in a worse spot, and have fewer resources than had the left it alone.

It has the same requirements, effects, and decisions to be made on DK as it does on any other class.

If you're really thinking it's useless, it's because you're not seeing the full potential (and the purpose) behind the ult.

It will do exactly the thing on a DK as it will on a Sorc, NB, Templar, or Warden.

(Actually) Working. As. Intended.

Maybe you are using it for repositioning AND resources? There is no reason why an ultimate should not a passive from Dk. It doesn't prevent procing any passive from another class so why should this the case with Dk?


Please fix this and allow Dks to roleplay as Tracer as well! @ZOS_GinaBruno

dsalter

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

I can't believe that people think this is fine. This ultimate is completely useless for all Dk builds if it doesn't proc Battle Roar.

Maybe you're confused as to the purpose behind this Ult?

You're using it for one of two reason, possibly both combined.

1. Repositioning. You're deciding, at the moment of cast if it's worth more to be where you were than where you are.
2. Resources (ironic, isn't it, since that's what you're effectively complaining about.) You're deciding in that instance if you'll be better in terms of resources.
   *Presumably, someone using this for option 2 would be timing it to go back to more resources, not less.

If the resources difference you had 4 seconds ago are worth less than what you would gain by Battle Roar, then don't use the ult. (Better yet, use your other ult.)

For this to be effective on any class, it will have to be timed and chosen situationally. A non-DK can mess up and burn the ult (no ult left now), be positioned in a worse spot, and have fewer resources than had the left it alone.

It has the same requirements, effects, and decisions to be made on DK as it does on any other class.

If you're really thinking it's useless, it's because you're not seeing the full potential (and the purpose) behind the ult.

It will do exactly the thing on a DK as it will on a Sorc, NB, Templar, or Warden.

(Actually) Working. As. Intended.

Maybe you are using it for repositioning AND resources? There is no reason why an ultimate should not a passive from Dk. It doesn't prevent procing any passive from another class so why should this the case with Dk?


Please fix this and allow Dks to roleplay as Tracer as well! @ZOS_GinaBruno

but tracers rewind even LOWERS your health if you had almost no health and rewind to a point before you got healed.
and as far as i know nothing "procs" on undo, cost reduction applies cause its a general cost thing but everything else even procs when healed abilities do not proc.
mountain is the only other thing that specifically works with undo but it rewinds and undoes the proc because the proc happened just before undo applies.
if hearts gains applied after rewind then the never dying DK's would be back in full swing...

Feanor

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

I can't believe that people think this is fine. This ultimate is completely useless for all Dk builds if it doesn't proc Battle Roar.

How would you make it work without being OP for DK? Genuinely interested.

yodased

Uhh if that happened then you would be able to always have full ultimate.

So lets just nake it easy for maths.

100 cost ultimate. 25 ultimate on cast.

So. What you do is make sure you have more than 175 ultimate when you cast.

At that point you have gone back in time 4 seconds, used 100 ultimate and have 100 ultimate.

The point?

Can store 500 ultimate. So thats 4 hoos back x 4 seconds, still leaving you with full resources and 100 ultimate, 16 seconds before.

If you are say taking a flag at a keep, having a mag dklike me be able to push the flags 5x before rezzing at a camp and doing it again?

Noq, everyone figures that out and you have nothing but teamd of dks time travelling and messing your day completely up.

Ivan04

@yodased Undo doesn't recover ultimate points, after you use it your ultimate count is at zero. Also this thread is about ultimate giving back resources, such as stamina or magicka, not about what you described.

templesus

If they make it work for battle roar, then they have to make it work for witchman. IMAGINE a stam dk running WW Hide BS Witchman next patch. No sustain would be needed whatsoever. Rather then sit and cry at your desk about it not proccing why don’t any ONE of you propose an actual solution that won’t break the game.

Ivan04

I actually haven't tested Witchman, but something tells me that Witchman would work with it, unlike Battle Roar. I guess I'll test it on live soon enough.

pieratsos

Alpheu5 wrote: »

Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »

How come undo is too strong combined with battle roar? Undo still returns the same amount of resources it would for any other class, and battle roar would still return the same amout of resources per ult point. Yes, sure, its a lot of resources gained in a short period of time, but there is no mathematical reason as to why undo on a dk would be stronger than any other class. Its like saying tripots+argonian is stronger than argonian+any other pot.

Undo would restore a flat 6486 resources in addition to whatever was undone. That by itself would make Undo stronger on a DK than any other class. And tripots on an Argonian are definitely stronger than any other potion on an Argonian on the fact that the passive restores more resources on top of the tripot than something like an invis+speed pot.

I think a better comparison would have been "It's like saying tripots are stronger on an Argonian than any other race".

So every ult in the game is stronger on DK because they also return resources? Wtf

templesus

Ivan04 wrote: »

I actually haven't tested Witchman, but something tells me that Witchman would work with it, unlike Battle Roar. I guess I'll test it on live soon enough.

It doesn't. Same as battle roar your resources are the same as they were 4 seconds previous.

Skullstachio

A smarter thing to do with the battle roar passive for DK's is to add a small delay to it similar to the wardens scorch ability (which has a small delay before damaging foes.).

One such example is that Battle roar could apply its effect after a 4 second delay or something upon using an ultimate, which could do something balanced as I see it like this: Adding a small delay to battle roar would leave a small gap of vulnerability at the expense of restoring resources which could solve the Undo dilemma but would bring up a slightly minor problem in the long run regarding the use of Ultimates with a DK, but hey, solve one problem and another will always rise to take its place.

kengur22

If the Undo has nothing described as passives don't work on this ability, Battle Roar should work on it.

TheMystid

Alpha-Lupi wrote: »

A smarter thing to do with the battle roar passive for DK's is to add a small delay to it similar to the wardens scorch ability (which has a small delay before damaging foes.).

One such example is that Battle roar could apply its effect after a 4 second delay or something upon using an ultimate, which could do something balanced as I see it like this: Adding a small delay to battle roar would leave a small gap of vulnerability at the expense of restoring resources which could solve the Undo dilemma but would bring up a slightly minor problem in the long run regarding the use of Ultimates with a DK, but hey, solve one problem and another will always rise to take its place.

Let me get this straight: you would nerf the already overnerfed DK's staple passive due to the existance of an ultimate accessible to any other class?

Are you looking for a job? Because ZOS would definetly hire you..

Emma_Overload

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

I can't believe that people think this is fine. This ultimate is completely useless for all Dk builds if it doesn't proc Battle Roar.

Dks are considered the peasants of tamriel apparently. They never get to enjoy anything, because having literally anything synergize with Dk passives would be gamebreaking. Thats why we have a heal on cinderstorm and cauterize that also doesn't synergize with any passives. Thanks wrobel.

Hysterical nonsense. Compare the synergy DKs get from Silks of the Sun to what Sorcs get from Netch's Touch. Silks will amplify all your fire damage, whereas Netch barely does anything, even though shock damage is supposed to be our signature... We don't even have a shock spammable!

lucky_Sage

to me the whole skill line just kind of sucks there is basically 1 useful skill in whole line but really all guild skill line are kinda weak except for like 1 to 2 abilities

TheMystid

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

I can't believe that people think this is fine. This ultimate is completely useless for all Dk builds if it doesn't proc Battle Roar.

Dks are considered the peasants of tamriel apparently. They never get to enjoy anything, because having literally anything synergize with Dk passives would be gamebreaking. Thats why we have a heal on cinderstorm and cauterize that also doesn't synergize with any passives. Thanks wrobel.

Hysterical nonsense. Compare the synergy DKs get from Silks of the Sun to what Sorcs get from Netch's Touch. Silks will amplify all your fire damage, whereas Netch barely does anything, even though shock damage is supposed to be our signature... We don't even have a shock spammable!

This is a bit too much. Sun is amazing for magDk, sure, but what about stamDK? C'mon, even a set specifically made for them like Draugr Hulk led to a nerf..