Why are we nerfing templars to make other classes better at healing

xaraan

I miss using my templars.

The only thing in the game nerfed more than Templars since launch, has been tanks. My Templar Tank isn't a happy camper these days.

Epicasballs

I fell like templar healer got a buff overall this patch.

Sure BoL received a nerf. But by making Healing Ritual instant cast is a huge buff to the class overall imo. HR is a 360 degree that hits up 6 people for about the same as BoL for less than twice the cost of BoL. Seems good to me. I rarely if ever use BoL in PvE and if I must use it I usually have to cast it several times to bring 3-4 targets back to full. The new HR sounds better in those situations to me.

Imryll

Mureel wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Templars have been getting the $#i^ end of the Aedric spear for years. Nerf after nerf after nerf. Even our few "buffs" have come with nerfy strings attached. The class is second worst in DPS, has no mobility, the worst CC options, broken skills, garbage passives, and the ONE thing we used to have - healing - has being siphoned away bit by bit (Major Mending nerf, BoL nerf, comically stupid Healing Ritual cost). No other class is so utterly crapped on, and for what? What possible justification is there? Do they hate us for our easy AOE class spammable that heals us? When it hits, maybe! Everything is broken and ZOS continually kicks the can down the road for bug fixes and class balance. They need to get priorities straight and fix this broken class.

Warden would like a word about the worst CC option thing.

While I don't disagree that Templar needs some love, I don't agree personally that any class should excel in any one field, which in this case is Healing with Templars. Not saying that I agree with the nerf to BoL, there's always better alternatives than nerfs, just that I would like for ZOS to balance the classes fairly that they can all fulfill whichever role they desire with equal parts effectiveness and uniqueness.

THEN FOR LOVE OF F DON'T GIVE US A WHOLE TREE DEDICATED TO HEALS! Why should Templars NOT excel at healing, given that we have 1/3 our skills dedicated to it!?

As long as any class is GIMPED for DPS by having 1/3 their skills literally heals - I don't want to hear about how no class should excel at healing!

Curse words!

I've begun to think that classes need an additional tree if ZOS wants to truly implement any class, any role. That way you could have a tree for healing, a tree for tanking, and a tree for damage dealing, without utility skills coming out of one role's allotment, cf. warden's animal companion line. Betty Netch and Falcon's Swiftness are good skills, but having them both in the damage dealing line means there's not much room for skills that actually cause hurt.

Silver_Strider

ezio45 wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Templars have been getting the $#i^ end of the Aedric spear for years. Nerf after nerf after nerf. Even our few "buffs" have come with nerfy strings attached. The class is second worst in DPS, has no mobility, the worst CC options, broken skills, garbage passives, and the ONE thing we used to have - healing - has being siphoned away bit by bit (Major Mending nerf, BoL nerf, comically stupid Healing Ritual cost). No other class is so utterly crapped on, and for what? What possible justification is there? Do they hate us for our easy AOE class spammable that heals us? When it hits, maybe! Everything is broken and ZOS continually kicks the can down the road for bug fixes and class balance. They need to get priorities straight and fix this broken class.

Warden would like a word about the worst CC option thing.

While I don't disagree that Templar needs some love, I don't agree personally that any class should excel in any one field, which in this case is Healing with Templars. Not saying that I agree with the nerf to BoL, there's always better alternatives than nerfs, just that I would like for ZOS to balance the classes fairly that they can all fulfill whichever role they desire with equal parts effectiveness and uniqueness.

THEN FOR LOVE OF F DON'T GIVE US A WHOLE TREE DEDICATED TO HEALS! Why should Templars NOT excel at healing, given that we have 1/3 our skills dedicated to it!?

As long as any class is GIMPED for DPS by having 1/3 their skills literally heals - I don't want to hear about how no class should excel at healing!

Curse words!

Considering that Warden has 6 skills that Heal vs the Templars 5, wouldn't it make more sense that a Warden be a better healer than a Templar? I mean, the entirety of Warden's Healing Skill Line is completely dedicated to healing as well but its still only 2nd place to Templar, while also having NO CC option and being the weakest DPS in the game. Warden's entire existence destroys any argument a Templar can possibly have when it comes to justifying themselves as the best healers.

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Templars have been getting the $#i^ end of the Aedric spear for years. Nerf after nerf after nerf. Even our few "buffs" have come with nerfy strings attached. The class is second worst in DPS, has no mobility, the worst CC options, broken skills, garbage passives, and the ONE thing we used to have - healing - has being siphoned away bit by bit (Major Mending nerf, BoL nerf, comically stupid Healing Ritual cost). No other class is so utterly crapped on, and for what? What possible justification is there? Do they hate us for our easy AOE class spammable that heals us? When it hits, maybe! Everything is broken and ZOS continually kicks the can down the road for bug fixes and class balance. They need to get priorities straight and fix this broken class.

Warden would like a word about the worst CC option thing.

While I don't disagree that Templar needs some love, I don't agree personally that any class should excel in any one field, which in this case is Healing with Templars. Not saying that I agree with the nerf to BoL, there's always better alternatives than nerfs, just that I would like for ZOS to balance the classes fairly that they can all fulfill whichever role they desire with equal parts effectiveness and uniqueness.

Quoted litteraly from the Elder scrolls online website itself (class info section):

"Templar is a very interesting class because of his ability to heal. With a uniqueness in the variety of healing abilities and auras. There is no other class in Elder Scrolls Online who can restore allies’ health as fast as a Templar does it. The Templars healing spells also allow players to create different builds, with elements of restoration magic. This gives players the option of creating a mix of a healer and damage dealer. You can also play as a true healer with light armour and focus on supporting your friends in battle. "

https://elderscrollsonline.info/templar

it litteraly could not be clearer

Outdated article is outdated. The site doesn't even have Warden Listed as a class or anything really post Homestead.

ezio45 wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Templars have been getting the $#i^ end of the Aedric spear for years. Nerf after nerf after nerf. Even our few "buffs" have come with nerfy strings attached. The class is second worst in DPS, has no mobility, the worst CC options, broken skills, garbage passives, and the ONE thing we used to have - healing - has being siphoned away bit by bit (Major Mending nerf, BoL nerf, comically stupid Healing Ritual cost). No other class is so utterly crapped on, and for what? What possible justification is there? Do they hate us for our easy AOE class spammable that heals us? When it hits, maybe! Everything is broken and ZOS continually kicks the can down the road for bug fixes and class balance. They need to get priorities straight and fix this broken class.

Warden would like a word about the worst CC option thing.

While I don't disagree that Templar needs some love, I don't agree personally that any class should excel in any one field, which in this case is Healing with Templars. Not saying that I agree with the nerf to BoL, there's always better alternatives than nerfs, just that I would like for ZOS to balance the classes fairly that they can all fulfill whichever role they desire with equal parts effectiveness and uniqueness.

Quoted litteraly from the Elder scrolls online website itself (class info section):

"Templar is a very interesting class because of his ability to heal. With a uniqueness in the variety of healing abilities and auras. There is no other class in Elder Scrolls Online who can restore allies’ health as fast as a Templar does it. The Templars healing spells also allow players to create different builds, with elements of restoration magic. This gives players the option of creating a mix of a healer and damage dealer. You can also play as a true healer with light armour and focus on supporting your friends in battle. "

https://elderscrollsonline.info/templar

it litteraly could not be clearer

Except now everyone is all GFY, 3 dps.

For the easy stuff maybe but I would love to see the train wreck if there werent any templar healers for dlc dungeons, trials and cyro for even a week

Cleared vBRF on a NB Healer.
Cleared vMoL on a Warden Healer.

I think the game would be fine

A few issues with this. The warden might have more healing skills but a LARGE majority of those are under preforming before there ever viable. Far as Im concerned warden healers are a buff b**** like they are trying to make templars into

second while Ill agree that magden does have similar dps to a magplar, for the dps like stamden has alot higher dps where both stam and magplars are suffering the dps loss

for warden cc's : permafrost..... Templars win worst cc's

For vbrf you dont need a healer, for vmol what was the other healer? cuz i guarantee It was a templar and very self sustaining. ive run vet trials with warden healers, once the templar healer goes down the group just wipes on any hard content and this is across the board with different warden healers

Like Templar doesn't have underperforming skills (*cough*Healing Ritual*cough*) so I'm not sure what exactly your point is in making this statement. On the point of DPS, Stamden might pull more DPS but Stamplar has PotL, making it more desirable overall than Stamden and while Summerset changes may affect this, those changes also put all stamina build, save NB, on the chopping block as far as endgame is concerned. PvP is impossible to balance so I won't comment on that but I still feel like Stamplar isn't terrible there either.

Secondly, you are comparing an Ultimate to a stun and a knockback that a Templar can use freely. There is no comparison here, like at all. Permafrost is great for PvP admittedly but again, it's still an Ultimate and thus not freely available at all times.

The fact you don't need a healer in vBRF just further proves my point that a Templar healer isn't needed for vet DLC dungeons, which was the point of that statement. Also, double Warden vMoL. Only Templar we had was our off Tank, mainly for PotL but also because my trial guild only cares about consistent clears, regardless of the team composition for the most part.

TheNightflame

next update shouldnt be a dlc, make it a QoL update called templarstead where the class is returned to its former (balanced) glory

FlamingBeard

Crescent Sweep should change to physical or magic damage depending on if your Stamina or Magicka is higher, respectively.

And the dot afterward should not pulse around the Templar who used it, the dot of Crescent Sweep should be applied directly to all enemies hit, just like Dawnbreaker.

Please, give us at least this one thing so that Templars have slightly better damage if our support role is being homogenized? @ZOS_Wrobel

Or if you could forward this to the balance devs... @ZOS_GinaBruno

I've got at least one of every class but Templar is what I love... I'm about ready to give up on the game becoming fun again.

Stibbons

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Templars have been getting the $#i^ end of the Aedric spear for years. Nerf after nerf after nerf. Even our few "buffs" have come with nerfy strings attached. The class is second worst in DPS, has no mobility, the worst CC options, broken skills, garbage passives, and the ONE thing we used to have - healing - has being siphoned away bit by bit (Major Mending nerf, BoL nerf, comically stupid Healing Ritual cost). No other class is so utterly crapped on, and for what? What possible justification is there? Do they hate us for our easy AOE class spammable that heals us? When it hits, maybe! Everything is broken and ZOS continually kicks the can down the road for bug fixes and class balance. They need to get priorities straight and fix this broken class.

I agree 100%. Don´t forget the -10% on crit heal in this patch. We will just be heal totem that cast one comically expensive heal. No mobility, slow turret low damage skills, poor cc and a crappy house protection.

exeeter702

Templar nerfs have had nothing to do with zos attempting to being non templar healers up to par. They were either collateral nerfs surrounding shifts in game balance philosophy ie sustain changes in morrowind resulting in nerfs to repentence and changes to shards / orbs, or they were nerfs directly aimed at outperforming abilities ie not having to actually *** aim one of the strongest burst heals in the game, which had a strong secondary heal and could heal through los and above or below the floor level of the recipient. The list goes on. No one likes nerfs, but it has nothing to do with bringing non templar healers up ffs...

Also, get the damn notion that templar should be the definitive healer out of your heads. An mmo with 15 unqiue class builds of which only 1 of those 15 is a viable healer is terrible.

Mureel wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Templars have been getting the $#i^ end of the Aedric spear for years. Nerf after nerf after nerf. Even our few "buffs" have come with nerfy strings attached. The class is second worst in DPS, has no mobility, the worst CC options, broken skills, garbage passives, and the ONE thing we used to have - healing - has being siphoned away bit by bit (Major Mending nerf, BoL nerf, comically stupid Healing Ritual cost). No other class is so utterly crapped on, and for what? What possible justification is there? Do they hate us for our easy AOE class spammable that heals us? When it hits, maybe! Everything is broken and ZOS continually kicks the can down the road for bug fixes and class balance. They need to get priorities straight and fix this broken class.

Warden would like a word about the worst CC option thing.

While I don't disagree that Templar needs some love, I don't agree personally that any class should excel in any one field, which in this case is Healing with Templars. Not saying that I agree with the nerf to BoL, there's always better alternatives than nerfs, just that I would like for ZOS to balance the classes fairly that they can all fulfill whichever role they desire with equal parts effectiveness and uniqueness.

THEN FOR LOVE OF F DON'T GIVE US A WHOLE TREE DEDICATED TO HEALS! Why should Templars NOT excel at healing, given that we have 1/3 our skills dedicated to it!?

As long as any class is GIMPED for DPS by having 1/3 their skills literally heals - I don't want to hear about how no class should excel at healing!

Curse words!

And this right here should be aptly ignored. Restoring light is no more dedicated at healing than a NBs siphoner skill line since almost forever. Restoring light also contains a critical tamplar tanking utility in it as well, or are templars not allowed to be tanks?.

Zos wants this mmo to have 5 healers, 5 tanks and 10 dps, that is the simple truth, but you have to be incredibly naive to think every templar nerf is a direct result of trying to making other healers more attractive options. Raw powerful burst heals should have limited range, bol 180 cone very strong small secondary heal, offering 180 cone very strong costs health over time provides minor mending. Whereas powerful burst heals that reach 360 degrees generally have added variables, matriarch pet micro, obsidian shard tied to enemy target damage etc. Thr sustain nerfs sucked for everyone. Templar healers were unable to wrap their head around the bigger sweeping picture in morrowind and instead cried foul because repentence got gutted.

The more often this game sees more class veriety in all 3 roles without them being looked at as "snowflake builds" the better off this game will be.

JPcrazysquirrel3

Nobody wants healers in dungeons anymore because they are crap now and a liability. Everyone would rather have a faster complete by having a third DPS than a healer that can't even provide quality heals anymore.

Nolic1

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Templars have been getting the $#i^ end of the Aedric spear for years. Nerf after nerf after nerf. Even our few "buffs" have come with nerfy strings attached. The class is second worst in DPS, has no mobility, the worst CC options, broken skills, garbage passives, and the ONE thing we used to have - healing - has being siphoned away bit by bit (Major Mending nerf, BoL nerf, comically stupid Healing Ritual cost). No other class is so utterly crapped on, and for what? What possible justification is there? Do they hate us for our easy AOE class spammable that heals us? When it hits, maybe! Everything is broken and ZOS continually kicks the can down the road for bug fixes and class balance. They need to get priorities straight and fix this broken class.

Warden would like a word about the worst CC option thing.

While I don't disagree that Templar needs some love, I don't agree personally that any class should excel in any one field, which in this case is Healing with Templars. Not saying that I agree with the nerf to BoL, there's always better alternatives than nerfs, just that I would like for ZOS to balance the classes fairly that they can all fulfill whichever role they desire with equal parts effectiveness and uniqueness.

Quoted litteraly from the Elder scrolls online website itself (class info section):

"Templar is a very interesting class because of his ability to heal. With a uniqueness in the variety of healing abilities and auras. There is no other class in Elder Scrolls Online who can restore allies’ health as fast as a Templar does it. The Templars healing spells also allow players to create different builds, with elements of restoration magic. This gives players the option of creating a mix of a healer and damage dealer. You can also play as a true healer with light armour and focus on supporting your friends in battle. "

https://elderscrollsonline.info/templar

it litteraly could not be clearer

That is not an offcial web site that is created by community members.

Razorback174

JPcrazysquirrel3 wrote: »

Nobody wants healers in dungeons anymore because they are crap now and a liability. Everyone would rather have a faster complete by having a third DPS than a healer that can't even provide quality heals anymore.

This is becoming a true problem in all this shiny new content. When all your content is a pure DPS check with "either avoid or get one-shot" damage mechanics, playing a healer becomes redundant. Their damage is crap, and the heals are worthless (no matter how good) when the only damage that can't be out-healed by a DPS or Tank's self-healing is flatout insta-kills. You're better off with 1 tank and 3 DPS.

Sad state of affairs.

Gnortranermara

Razorback174 wrote: »

This is becoming a true problem in all this shiny new content. When all your content is a pure DPS check with "either avoid or get one-shot" damage mechanics, playing a healer becomes redundant. Their damage is crap, and the heals are worthless (no matter how good) when the only damage that can't be out-healed by a DPS or Tank's self-healing is flatout insta-kills. You're better off with 1 tank and 3 DPS.

Sad state of affairs.

Absolutely correct. This is why I play DPS Templar with an off-heal slotted for emergencies.

Silver_Strider

We need more mechanics like the heal check in vMoL 1st boss or even just the last boss of FG2 (albeit a little more healer intensive than that).

JPcrazysquirrel3

Razorback174 wrote: »

JPcrazysquirrel3 wrote: »

Nobody wants healers in dungeons anymore because they are crap now and a liability. Everyone would rather have a faster complete by having a third DPS than a healer that can't even provide quality heals anymore.

This is becoming a true problem in all this shiny new content. When all your content is a pure DPS check with "either avoid or get one-shot" damage mechanics, playing a healer becomes redundant. Their damage is crap, and the heals are worthless (no matter how good) when the only damage that can't be out-healed by a DPS or Tank's self-healing is flatout insta-kills. You're better off with 1 tank and 3 DPS.

Sad state of affairs.

Exactly.

I have a DK tank, a Warden tank, and a Templar healer. I've typically been more preferential to the tanks. More and more these days, I find myself playing the Warden tank because the sustain is slightly better and with this lack of healers in dungeon groups, I can throw some heals out when able, if needed. But the tank shouldn't have to also act as the healer, and it also further burns through resources. So I've pretty much said f*** it when it comes to doing dungeons anymore.

Occasionally, I'll help a group of guildies out, but other than that, ZOS needs to fix their s*** before I start regularly doing daily dungeons again.

Kalante

The days of the insta full health with one hand swipe ((BOL SPAM)) are counted. The one that really needs help is the stam templar, now that's a trash class. Only the biggest masochists would dare play that. It's basically a dodo bird with bad mobiliy, bad survival, and mediocre damage . Also i like how this thread is just about players talking about their mag templars but none of them bring out the glaring issues stam templar has. It's all just mag templar players crying about their "version" of the class getting nerfed but not the entire class as a whole.

btw healers shouldn't be doing damage so what is this that all of you also want to have the BEST heals in the game out of any class and also do good dps? If you wanna do dps then drop your healing set up and spect for dps you can't have both.

Wraithlyn

Kalante wrote: »

The days of the insta full health with one hand swipe ((BOL SPAM)) are counted. The one that really needs help is the stam templar, now that's a trash class. Only the biggest masochists would dare play that. It's basically a dodo bird with bad mobiliy, bad survival, and mediocre damage . Also i like how this thread is just about players talking about their mag templars but none of them bring out the glaring issues stam templar has. It's all just mag templar players crying about their "version" of the class getting nerfed but not the entire class as a whole.

btw healers shouldn't be doing damage so what is this that all of you also want to have the BEST heals in the game out of any class and also do good dps? If you wanna do dps then drop your healing set up and spect for dps you can't have both.

You are probably talking about PvP, but I think that one of the biggest issues stamina templar suffers affects both PvE and PvP

I agree with you that stamina Templar needs some love, but I think that they need to have their absolutely terrible sustain addressed before they do any damage buffs. Stamina Templar is the only class spec that has the worst sustain that you are basically forced to run a sustain set or rely on heavy attacks (which will be doing less damage next patch). The other classes don't have that, except stamina sorc as dark deal doesn't fit into a PvE rotation.

Now, I'd love to see stamina Templar buffed to have better sustain, but what is the point if ZoS will just not listen to the class feedback (Or pull what they did with the current PTS and forget class balance) and even then, not enough people play Stamina Templar to actually get any changes (And those that do make comments, they get ignored by ZoS, anyway from the feedback issue I said earlier).

I'll still play stamina Templar in Summerset as I enjoy the class more than the others, but there is a reason that most Templar players, regardless of stamina or magicka, no longer expect ZoS to change anything for the better.

cazlonb16_ESO

exeeter702 wrote: »

Also, get the damn notion that templar should be the definitive healer out of your heads. An mmo with 15 unqiue class builds of which only 1 of those 15 is a viable healer is terrible.

Sure, as soon as ZOS make some honest attempts to address the class' deficiencies in basically all other areas. So at the current rate of progress about next millenium.

Bam_Bam

aeowulf wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Templars have been getting the $#i^ end of the Aedric spear for years. Nerf after nerf after nerf. Even our few "buffs" have come with nerfy strings attached. The class is second worst in DPS, has no mobility, the worst CC options, broken skills, garbage passives, and the ONE thing we used to have - healing - has being siphoned away bit by bit (Major Mending nerf, BoL nerf, comically stupid Healing Ritual cost). No other class is so utterly crapped on, and for what? What possible justification is there? Do they hate us for our easy AOE class spammable that heals us? When it hits, maybe! Everything is broken and ZOS continually kicks the can down the road for bug fixes and class balance. They need to get priorities straight and fix this broken class.

Warden would like a word about the worst CC option thing.

While I don't disagree that Templar needs some love, I don't agree personally that any class should excel in any one field, which in this case is Healing with Templars. Not saying that I agree with the nerf to BoL, there's always better alternatives than nerfs, just that I would like for ZOS to balance the classes fairly that they can all fulfill whichever role they desire with equal parts effectiveness and uniqueness.

Exactly this. No class should dominate in any role. This is not a game with 15 seperate distinct classes, we have 5, with 3 role trees. Templar dominate healing just as DK dominate tanking. All classes need to be reasonably balanced in all roles. Nerfs are upsetting and sometimes too heavy handed. Right now all I (commonly) see in vet finder are DK/warden tanks, and templar/warden healers This is not balanced. It's just easier to bring down 1 overperforming class than bring up 3

I just wish they would get on and split out the skill trees into distict DPS, tank and healer trees for each class. I think until then balance in each role will be tough.

OR they remove the current class concept and let folks pick and choose different skill trees. Your class is defined by the three you choose.

OR spell crafting, in a way everyone has complete flexibility

Sorry, I disagree. I mean Nightblades SHOULD be the best at sneaking and being slippery. Sorcs should make the best wizards and ummm, sorcerers. Templars best healers and Dragonknights the best tanks.

I'm not saying other classes shouldn't be able to play such roles but the "base" classes should always be the best at what they do. Just my opinion. Opinions are like bumholes - everyone has one

Silver_Strider

Bam_Bam wrote: »

aeowulf wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Templars have been getting the $#i^ end of the Aedric spear for years. Nerf after nerf after nerf. Even our few "buffs" have come with nerfy strings attached. The class is second worst in DPS, has no mobility, the worst CC options, broken skills, garbage passives, and the ONE thing we used to have - healing - has being siphoned away bit by bit (Major Mending nerf, BoL nerf, comically stupid Healing Ritual cost). No other class is so utterly crapped on, and for what? What possible justification is there? Do they hate us for our easy AOE class spammable that heals us? When it hits, maybe! Everything is broken and ZOS continually kicks the can down the road for bug fixes and class balance. They need to get priorities straight and fix this broken class.

Warden would like a word about the worst CC option thing.

While I don't disagree that Templar needs some love, I don't agree personally that any class should excel in any one field, which in this case is Healing with Templars. Not saying that I agree with the nerf to BoL, there's always better alternatives than nerfs, just that I would like for ZOS to balance the classes fairly that they can all fulfill whichever role they desire with equal parts effectiveness and uniqueness.

Exactly this. No class should dominate in any role. This is not a game with 15 seperate distinct classes, we have 5, with 3 role trees. Templar dominate healing just as DK dominate tanking. All classes need to be reasonably balanced in all roles. Nerfs are upsetting and sometimes too heavy handed. Right now all I (commonly) see in vet finder are DK/warden tanks, and templar/warden healers This is not balanced. It's just easier to bring down 1 overperforming class than bring up 3

I just wish they would get on and split out the skill trees into distict DPS, tank and healer trees for each class. I think until then balance in each role will be tough.

OR they remove the current class concept and let folks pick and choose different skill trees. Your class is defined by the three you choose.

OR spell crafting, in a way everyone has complete flexibility

Sorry, I disagree. I mean Nightblades SHOULD be the best at sneaking and being slippery. Sorcs should make the best wizards and ummm, sorcerers. Templars best healers and Dragonknights the best tanks.

I'm not saying other classes shouldn't be able to play such roles but the "base" classes should always be the best at what they do. Just my opinion. Opinions are like bumholes - everyone has one

Where does Warden exist in this whole philosophy?

Sru

Mureel wrote: »

THEN FOR LOVE OF F DON'T GIVE US A WHOLE TREE DEDICATED TO HEALS! Why should Templars NOT excel at healing, given that we have 1/3 our skills dedicated to it!?

As long as any class is GIMPED for DPS by having 1/3 their skills literally heals - I don't want to hear about how no class should excel at healing!

Curse words!

^^ this.

Really can't understand this idea that everyone can be good at everything ... smacks of the snowflake attitude to the world.

I like learning one role, being really good at it and having a place in teams. By having everyone as a healer, good end-game teams really don't need them. We just did both Scalecaller and Fang's Lair Vet with no healer - not needed and faster without. Indeed, there is not not a single DLC or non-DLC dungeon that _needs_ a healer even in vet hard mode. They need DPS and need Tanks but healers ... naw.

How can a game be so badly designed as to negate the need for a major role?

Templars have a full skill line dedicated to being EOS's best healer - make this a good thing rather than apologise for it and hand out healer-treats to all other classes.

Minno

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Bam_Bam wrote: »

aeowulf wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Templars have been getting the $#i^ end of the Aedric spear for years. Nerf after nerf after nerf. Even our few "buffs" have come with nerfy strings attached. The class is second worst in DPS, has no mobility, the worst CC options, broken skills, garbage passives, and the ONE thing we used to have - healing - has being siphoned away bit by bit (Major Mending nerf, BoL nerf, comically stupid Healing Ritual cost). No other class is so utterly crapped on, and for what? What possible justification is there? Do they hate us for our easy AOE class spammable that heals us? When it hits, maybe! Everything is broken and ZOS continually kicks the can down the road for bug fixes and class balance. They need to get priorities straight and fix this broken class.

Warden would like a word about the worst CC option thing.

While I don't disagree that Templar needs some love, I don't agree personally that any class should excel in any one field, which in this case is Healing with Templars. Not saying that I agree with the nerf to BoL, there's always better alternatives than nerfs, just that I would like for ZOS to balance the classes fairly that they can all fulfill whichever role they desire with equal parts effectiveness and uniqueness.

Exactly this. No class should dominate in any role. This is not a game with 15 seperate distinct classes, we have 5, with 3 role trees. Templar dominate healing just as DK dominate tanking. All classes need to be reasonably balanced in all roles. Nerfs are upsetting and sometimes too heavy handed. Right now all I (commonly) see in vet finder are DK/warden tanks, and templar/warden healers This is not balanced. It's just easier to bring down 1 overperforming class than bring up 3

I just wish they would get on and split out the skill trees into distict DPS, tank and healer trees for each class. I think until then balance in each role will be tough.

OR they remove the current class concept and let folks pick and choose different skill trees. Your class is defined by the three you choose.

OR spell crafting, in a way everyone has complete flexibility

Sorry, I disagree. I mean Nightblades SHOULD be the best at sneaking and being slippery. Sorcs should make the best wizards and ummm, sorcerers. Templars best healers and Dragonknights the best tanks.

I'm not saying other classes shouldn't be able to play such roles but the "base" classes should always be the best at what they do. Just my opinion. Opinions are like bumholes - everyone has one

Where does Warden exist in this whole philosophy?

Best group buff/debuff class; who else can give major resists/minor health for a long duration to everyone in your group or the ability to grant resources on all green tree healing done? And who else can now grant major penetration to multiple targets, AOE major defile, AOE snare/stuns?

Silver_Strider

Minno wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Bam_Bam wrote: »

aeowulf wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Templars have been getting the $#i^ end of the Aedric spear for years. Nerf after nerf after nerf. Even our few "buffs" have come with nerfy strings attached. The class is second worst in DPS, has no mobility, the worst CC options, broken skills, garbage passives, and the ONE thing we used to have - healing - has being siphoned away bit by bit (Major Mending nerf, BoL nerf, comically stupid Healing Ritual cost). No other class is so utterly crapped on, and for what? What possible justification is there? Do they hate us for our easy AOE class spammable that heals us? When it hits, maybe! Everything is broken and ZOS continually kicks the can down the road for bug fixes and class balance. They need to get priorities straight and fix this broken class.

Warden would like a word about the worst CC option thing.

While I don't disagree that Templar needs some love, I don't agree personally that any class should excel in any one field, which in this case is Healing with Templars. Not saying that I agree with the nerf to BoL, there's always better alternatives than nerfs, just that I would like for ZOS to balance the classes fairly that they can all fulfill whichever role they desire with equal parts effectiveness and uniqueness.

Exactly this. No class should dominate in any role. This is not a game with 15 seperate distinct classes, we have 5, with 3 role trees. Templar dominate healing just as DK dominate tanking. All classes need to be reasonably balanced in all roles. Nerfs are upsetting and sometimes too heavy handed. Right now all I (commonly) see in vet finder are DK/warden tanks, and templar/warden healers This is not balanced. It's just easier to bring down 1 overperforming class than bring up 3

I just wish they would get on and split out the skill trees into distict DPS, tank and healer trees for each class. I think until then balance in each role will be tough.

OR they remove the current class concept and let folks pick and choose different skill trees. Your class is defined by the three you choose.

OR spell crafting, in a way everyone has complete flexibility

Sorry, I disagree. I mean Nightblades SHOULD be the best at sneaking and being slippery. Sorcs should make the best wizards and ummm, sorcerers. Templars best healers and Dragonknights the best tanks.

I'm not saying other classes shouldn't be able to play such roles but the "base" classes should always be the best at what they do. Just my opinion. Opinions are like bumholes - everyone has one

Where does Warden exist in this whole philosophy?

Best group buff/debuff class; who else can give major resists/minor health for a long duration to everyone in your group or the ability to grant resources on all green tree healing done? And who else can now grant major penetration to multiple targets, AOE major defile, AOE snare/stuns?

A niche that is both undervalued and ignored by the community, mostly due to the redundancy of most of the buffs/debuffs (Obvious exemptions such as Major Defile excluded).

Razorback174

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Bam_Bam wrote: »

aeowulf wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Templars have been getting the $#i^ end of the Aedric spear for years. Nerf after nerf after nerf. Even our few "buffs" have come with nerfy strings attached. The class is second worst in DPS, has no mobility, the worst CC options, broken skills, garbage passives, and the ONE thing we used to have - healing - has being siphoned away bit by bit (Major Mending nerf, BoL nerf, comically stupid Healing Ritual cost). No other class is so utterly crapped on, and for what? What possible justification is there? Do they hate us for our easy AOE class spammable that heals us? When it hits, maybe! Everything is broken and ZOS continually kicks the can down the road for bug fixes and class balance. They need to get priorities straight and fix this broken class.

Warden would like a word about the worst CC option thing.

While I don't disagree that Templar needs some love, I don't agree personally that any class should excel in any one field, which in this case is Healing with Templars. Not saying that I agree with the nerf to BoL, there's always better alternatives than nerfs, just that I would like for ZOS to balance the classes fairly that they can all fulfill whichever role they desire with equal parts effectiveness and uniqueness.

Exactly this. No class should dominate in any role. This is not a game with 15 seperate distinct classes, we have 5, with 3 role trees. Templar dominate healing just as DK dominate tanking. All classes need to be reasonably balanced in all roles. Nerfs are upsetting and sometimes too heavy handed. Right now all I (commonly) see in vet finder are DK/warden tanks, and templar/warden healers This is not balanced. It's just easier to bring down 1 overperforming class than bring up 3

I just wish they would get on and split out the skill trees into distict DPS, tank and healer trees for each class. I think until then balance in each role will be tough.

OR they remove the current class concept and let folks pick and choose different skill trees. Your class is defined by the three you choose.

OR spell crafting, in a way everyone has complete flexibility

Sorry, I disagree. I mean Nightblades SHOULD be the best at sneaking and being slippery. Sorcs should make the best wizards and ummm, sorcerers. Templars best healers and Dragonknights the best tanks.

I'm not saying other classes shouldn't be able to play such roles but the "base" classes should always be the best at what they do. Just my opinion. Opinions are like bumholes - everyone has one

Where does Warden exist in this whole philosophy?

Best group buff/debuff class; who else can give major resists/minor health for a long duration to everyone in your group or the ability to grant resources on all green tree healing done? And who else can now grant major penetration to multiple targets, AOE major defile, AOE snare/stuns?

A niche that is both undervalued and ignored by the community, mostly due to the redundancy of most of the buffs/debuffs (Obvious exemptions such as Major Defile excluded).

And the worst class for anything else by a country mile, especially in the DPS department. Less so for stam wardens, but there is no class underperforming as badly as mag wardens this patch.

No other class has their only class stun and execute tied to an ultimate. Not to mention you can't even slot both of those at once.

JPcrazysquirrel3

Minno wrote: »

Best group buff/debuff class; who else can give major resists/minor health for a long duration to everyone in your group or the ability to grant resources on all green tree healing done? And who else can now grant major penetration to multiple targets, AOE major defile, AOE snare/stuns?

Please tell me you're just trolling.

Swen_von_Walhallion

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Like Templar doesn't have underperforming skills (*cough*Healing Ritual*cough*) so I'm not sure what exactly your point is in making this statement. On the point of DPS, Stamden might pull more DPS but Stamplar has PotL, making it more desirable overall than Stamden and while Summerset changes may affect this, those changes also put all stamina build, save NB, on the chopping block as far as endgame is concerned. PvP is impossible to balance so I won't comment on that but I still feel like Stamplar isn't terrible there either.

Secondly, you are comparing an Ultimate to a stun and a knockback that a Templar can use freely. There is no comparison here, like at all. Permafrost is great for PvP admittedly but again, it's still an Ultimate and thus not freely available at all times.

The fact you don't need a healer in vBRF just further proves my point that a Templar healer isn't needed for vet DLC dungeons, which was the point of that statement. Also, double Warden vMoL. Only Templar we had was our off Tank, mainly for PotL but also because my trial guild only cares about consistent clears, regardless of the team composition for the most part.

y templars have wonderfull knobback CC, which make sense. As teplar you have 0 mobility and fight enemy at mele range, its rly helpfull kick eneymy half map away. And About wardens CC what about Gripping Shards immobilize is rly great thing for PvE or PvP. And BTW after summmerset sunderflame set will be doing its some as PotL but with higher uptime R.I.P. stamplars

JPcrazysquirrel3

Swen_von_Walhallion wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Like Templar doesn't have underperforming skills (*cough*Healing Ritual*cough*) so I'm not sure what exactly your point is in making this statement. On the point of DPS, Stamden might pull more DPS but Stamplar has PotL, making it more desirable overall than Stamden and while Summerset changes may affect this, those changes also put all stamina build, save NB, on the chopping block as far as endgame is concerned. PvP is impossible to balance so I won't comment on that but I still feel like Stamplar isn't terrible there either.

Secondly, you are comparing an Ultimate to a stun and a knockback that a Templar can use freely. There is no comparison here, like at all. Permafrost is great for PvP admittedly but again, it's still an Ultimate and thus not freely available at all times.

The fact you don't need a healer in vBRF just further proves my point that a Templar healer isn't needed for vet DLC dungeons, which was the point of that statement. Also, double Warden vMoL. Only Templar we had was our off Tank, mainly for PotL but also because my trial guild only cares about consistent clears, regardless of the team composition for the most part.

y templars have wonderfull knobback CC, which make sense. As teplar you have 0 mobility and fight enemy at mele range, its rly helpfull kick eneymy half map away. And About wardens CC what about Gripping Shards immobilize is rly great thing for PvE or PvP. And BTW after summmerset sunderflame set will be doing its some as PotL but with higher uptime R.I.P. stamplars

Wot m8?

Lord_Ninka

Nah, I like build diversity. Only having one single build or even class for an entire role would quickly become boring and feel very much out of line with the whole elder scrolls concept.

eserras7b16_ESO

And after a year, Magplars and Stamplars are still underperforming. It is really frustrating I just want to go at ZoS and shout all over them sometimes.