werewolves in summerset

DuskMarine

@ZOS_GinaBruno so is werewolf just to the point it has no use anymore in the eyes of zos?? there hasnt been any decent buffs since it became practically worthless after the now needing to have it slotted to gain the stamina recovery nerf. yall have run this transformation into the ground to the point why would anyone run it when the obvious better choice is vampire for major protection comparible to health on top of stamina and magicka recovery and this is just standing. are yall just gonna keep killing werewolf or are yall finally thinking of a rework to this. im kindve tired of my favorite transformation through all the other elder scrolls being turned into a worthless pile of garbage.

Osubaker33

WW really needs to be fixed. There are so many people who love WW but don't use it because its in such a horrible place right now. Its niche in pvp and solo play, and completely useless in dungeons and trials. Common fix this!

Rohamad_Ali

@Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno Please give WW some much needed love . We want them to feel powerful .

OGLezard

Be careful......ww might get nerfed now.....

DuskMarine

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

@Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno Please give WW some much needed love . We want them to feel powerful .

id settle for worthwhile compared to vampire.

Anethum

DuskMarine wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno so is werewolf just to the point it has no use anymore in the eyes of zos?? there hasnt been any decent buffs since it became practically worthless after the now needing to have it slotted to gain the stamina recovery nerf. yall have run this transformation into the ground to the point why would anyone run it when the obvious better choice is vampire for major protection comparible to health on top of stamina and magicka recovery and this is just standing. are yall just gonna keep killing werewolf or are yall finally thinking of a rework to this. im kindve tired of my favorite transformation through all the other elder scrolls being turned into a worthless pile of garbage.

i want to make for ww few things:
1. healing scaled with stamina. But, remove additional resists...berserk should not be tanky. Pure damage, and adequate healing. Nowadays, ww is not viable without healers around. No real werewolf pack possible. They have no real synergies to fight effective together or solo. Stupid for both cases. And in addition ... anything to counter snares and roots.
2. (cosmetic)female variation of form for female characters. I mean not breast etc, but another skeleton anatomy. More subtle shoulders, chest, hands, wider hips, more elegant head. Not functional, but its some love to werewolf in game in general.
3. (animation fix) dodge which look like dodge not stupid jump back, forward, left or right. It absolutly not recogniseable in fight. Hybrid of wolf and human should be able to dodge on his back

Chaos2088

All vampire and werewolf changes are going to be most prob is its own themed DLC...coming to a crown store near you....:)

TrinityBreaker

Make all the passives you get in wolf form halved in human form? Like the 10k extra you get would 5k in human form. The 18% wep damage would be 9% (this sounds OP asf and probably not a good idea). For cosmetic reasons we could get a beastly look while in human form. Thoughts?

RoyJade

TrinityBreaker wrote: »

Make all the passives you get in wolf form halved in human form? Like the 10k extra you get would 5k in human form. The 18% wep damage would be 9% (this sounds OP asf and probably not a good idea). For cosmetic reasons we could get a beastly look while in human form. Thoughts?

No. No one would play ww for the ww form/gameplay. Same as before when ww was giving the 15% stam regen freely.
It would just be a free buff for stam, and a free survivability for mag.

Qbiken

diplomatt wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno so is werewolf just to the point it has no use anymore in the eyes of zos?? there hasnt been any decent buffs since it became practically worthless after the now needing to have it slotted to gain the stamina recovery nerf. yall have run this transformation into the ground to the point why would anyone run it when the obvious better choice is vampire for major protection comparible to health on top of stamina and magicka recovery and this is just standing. are yall just gonna keep killing werewolf or are yall finally thinking of a rework to this. im kindve tired of my favorite transformation through all the other elder scrolls being turned into a worthless pile of garbage.

i want to make for ww few things:
1. healing scaled with stamina. But, remove additional resists...berserk should not be tanky. Pure damage, and adequate healing. Nowadays, ww is not viable without healers around. No real werewolf pack possible. They have no real synergies to fight effective together or solo. Stupid for both cases. And in addition ... anything to counter snares and roots.
2. (cosmetic)female variation of form for female characters. I mean not breast etc, but another skeleton anatomy. More subtle shoulders, chest, hands, wider hips, more elegant head. Not functional, but its some love to werewolf in game in general.
3. (animation fix) dodge which look like dodge not stupid jump back, forward, left or right. It absolutly not recogniseable in fight. Hybrid of wolf and human should be able to dodge on his back

#1
No offense but these are absolutely horrible suggestion. The heal is immensely powerful if you build correctly for it. Even on a non-pelinial werewolf it heals for around 5-6k. On a good pelinial build you´ll have 10k+ heals. And you will still have really good damage.

People saying werewolf is weak in PvP need to L2P, sorry but that is 100% true. Removing the resistance is also a really bad suggestion. It´s one of the main reasons WW´s are somewhat decent. Werewolfs are good in 1v1, but don´t try to 1vX with them. And going with a werewolf + support is really strong. ( @Aznox can confirm that).

Your suggestions are bad, but I agree with werewolfs lacking synergies. Werewolfs need two thing, and two things only:
1. Bugfixes
2. More synergies for group-play.

Anything else that people say is weak about werewolf (at least for PvP) is 100% L2P issues.

Chrlynsch

Qbiken wrote: »

diplomatt wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno so is werewolf just to the point it has no use anymore in the eyes of zos?? there hasnt been any decent buffs since it became practically worthless after the now needing to have it slotted to gain the stamina recovery nerf. yall have run this transformation into the ground to the point why would anyone run it when the obvious better choice is vampire for major protection comparible to health on top of stamina and magicka recovery and this is just standing. are yall just gonna keep killing werewolf or are yall finally thinking of a rework to this. im kindve tired of my favorite transformation through all the other elder scrolls being turned into a worthless pile of garbage.

i want to make for ww few things:
1. healing scaled with stamina. But, remove additional resists...berserk should not be tanky. Pure damage, and adequate healing. Nowadays, ww is not viable without healers around. No real werewolf pack possible. They have no real synergies to fight effective together or solo. Stupid for both cases. And in addition ... anything to counter snares and roots.
2. (cosmetic)female variation of form for female characters. I mean not breast etc, but another skeleton anatomy. More subtle shoulders, chest, hands, wider hips, more elegant head. Not functional, but its some love to werewolf in game in general.
3. (animation fix) dodge which look like dodge not stupid jump back, forward, left or right. It absolutly not recogniseable in fight. Hybrid of wolf and human should be able to dodge on his back

#1
No offense but these are absolutely horrible suggestion. The heal is immensely powerful if you build correctly for it. Even on a non-pelinial werewolf it heals for around 5-6k. On a good pelinial build you´ll have 10k+ heals. And you will still have really good damage.

People saying werewolf is weak in PvP need to L2P, sorry but that is 100% true. Removing the resistance is also a really bad suggestion. It´s one of the main reasons WW´s are somewhat decent. Werewolfs are good in 1v1, but don´t try to 1vX with them. And going with a werewolf + support is really strong. ( @Aznox can confirm that).

Your suggestions are bad, but I agree with werewolfs lacking synergies. Werewolfs need two thing, and two things only:
1. Bugfixes
2. More synergies for group-play.

Anything else that people say is weak about werewolf (at least for PvP) is 100% L2P issues.

Good points @Qbiken

Here is my wishlist, it is a long one, would like to see 13 & 3 done the most and soonest.

1. Savage Strength increases weapon damage by 20%
2. Hircine Rage: heals and now increases spell damage and weapon damage by 8% for nearby allies for 20 sec
3. Change bloodrage to Perpetual Hunt: Whenever you use a werewolf ability add 3/5 seconds to your werewolf transformation. This will allow for long term pack play.
4. Ferocious roar: provides snare immunity / minor heroism to self and nearby allies for 9 seconds. No longer fears.
5. Rousing roar now also grants major sorcery as well as major brutality.
6. Devour restores time/resources per second much like new PO skill meditate catch is it requires corpse.
7. Hircine's Fortitude heals for half as much but as large aoe. Increases regen of all affected by 8% for 20 seconds.
8. Allow stealth for werewolves. Audio for abilities plays differently. Growling, snarling. (Think what it would sound like to be surrounded by a stealthed pack in PVP. As werewolves will have to use abilities to stay in longterm form)
9. Make heavy attack target better, or into a proper aoe.
10. Make claws of _____ a proper aoe like cleave.
11. Roar: fears enemies in place. (Nothing worse the fearing enemies out of the range of your and allies abilities)
12. Different forms of lycanthropy with different perks
12a. Werewolf: Increased speed and stamina (as is)
12b. Werebear: Blocking passive like shield/ice staff/ taunt on howl.
12c. Werelion: Increased range of werewolf howls and roars by 7m.
12d. Wereboar: knocks down and damages enemies when sprinting. (Think minotaur set)
12e. Werevulture: Adds knockback to howl ofs. Roars now creates a cyclone and pulls in nearby targets damaging with ground based dot for 10 seconds.
12f. Werecroc: increased claws of damage, 360 heavy attack tail swing action
12e. Wereshark: ...
13. Bugfixes: Unchained Passive, Dodge roll passive from medium armor, direwolves respawning after pack leader death, able to activate all synergizes.
14. Can generate ultimate in form and take it back into human form.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Twohothardware

I'd like to see the Werewolf stamina recovery buff active all the time without the need to slot it with additional bonuses of like speed and damage reduction or something and then give werewolf a penalty even when in human form of increased damage from Poison like Vampire is fire.

I believe when ESO first came out this was the case with Werewolf suffering from increased poison damage wasn't it?

IlCanis_LupuslI

Osubaker33 wrote: »

WW really needs to be fixed. There are so many people who love WW but don't use it because its in such a horrible place right now. Its niche in pvp and solo play, and completely useless in dungeons and trials. Common fix this!

Osubaker33 wrote: »

WW really needs to be fixed. There are so many people who love WW but don't use it because its in such a horrible place right now. Its niche in pvp and solo play, and completely useless in dungeons and trials. Common fix this!

@Osubaker33 correction the people who love it, use it anyway and have to build around all the cons the ww brings. They play it I only because they love it and have gotten use to the fact that what other people do, werewolves have to work 3x harder for

DuskMarine

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

Osubaker33 wrote: »

WW really needs to be fixed. There are so many people who love WW but don't use it because its in such a horrible place right now. Its niche in pvp and solo play, and completely useless in dungeons and trials. Common fix this!

Osubaker33 wrote: »

WW really needs to be fixed. There are so many people who love WW but don't use it because its in such a horrible place right now. Its niche in pvp and solo play, and completely useless in dungeons and trials. Common fix this!

@Osubaker33 correction the people who love it, use it anyway and have to build around all the cons the ww brings. They play it I only because they love it and have gotten use to the fact that what other people do, werewolves have to work 3x harder for

actually it feels like comparibly to vampires werewolves have to work about 20 times harder because we dont have access to what vampires do. vampires just standing gain stam and magicka recovery as well as based on health major protection just standing. werewolves have to have the form slotted or active to gain anything whatsoever. werwolves should have standing buffs as well with nothing equipped such as 5-10% more damage give or take 5% would be more balanced cause thats not to bad, extra resistances like maybe 1k or 2k something like that along with 10-15% stamina recovery. that would make more sense for a werewolf while also staying in the neighborhood of balance due to the issue that vamps have their standing skills as well.

Ladislao

Osubaker33 wrote: »

actually it feels like comparibly to vampires werewolves have to work about 20 times harder because we dont have access to what vampires do. vampires just standing gain stam and magicka recovery as well as based on health major protection just standing. werewolves have to have the form slotted or active to gain anything whatsoever. werwolves should have standing buffs as well with nothing equipped such as 5-10% more damage give or take 5% would be more balanced cause thats not to bad, extra resistances like maybe 1k or 2k something like that along with 10-15% stamina recovery. that would make more sense for a werewolf while also staying in the neighborhood of balance due to the issue that vamps have their standing skills as well.

Most likely you forgot that vampires in return for these benefits are vulnerable to fire and FG skills all the time. While werewolves need only set the skill on the panel to receive the buff.

In fact, these comparisons are quite untenable. Vampirism and lycanthropy are optional skill lines that you can take in return for some flaws. If you think that they do not suit you for some reason, then you just pass them. Nothing more.

DuskMarine

Ladislao wrote: »

Osubaker33 wrote: »

actually it feels like comparibly to vampires werewolves have to work about 20 times harder because we dont have access to what vampires do. vampires just standing gain stam and magicka recovery as well as based on health major protection just standing. werewolves have to have the form slotted or active to gain anything whatsoever. werwolves should have standing buffs as well with nothing equipped such as 5-10% more damage give or take 5% would be more balanced cause thats not to bad, extra resistances like maybe 1k or 2k something like that along with 10-15% stamina recovery. that would make more sense for a werewolf while also staying in the neighborhood of balance due to the issue that vamps have their standing skills as well.

Most likely you forgot that vampires in return for these benefits are vulnerable to fire and FG skills all the time. While werewolves need only set the skill on the panel to receive the buff.

In fact, these comparisons are quite untenable. Vampirism and lycanthropy are optional skill lines that you can take in return for some flaws. If you think that they do not suit you for some reason, then you just pass them. Nothing more.

the extra fire damage and extra damage taken by fg abilties really doesnt stop me in vampire form. but in quite comparison here that you missed the transformation makes you so much weaker than even vampires to these attacks. heres how people do not always use fire elemental damage in pvp and as far as fg abilties go undeath counters that fairly well no problem. now if you transform into a werewolf you are taking 2 huge risks fighters guild abilties knocking the heck out of you as well as you gain a huge huge increase in damage taken by poisons which everyone that is a stamina character(which alot of people are besides sorcs or magblades) uses in every rotation at least 2 or 3 times. lethal arrow does poison damage, poison injection does poison damage, stamina dks their all about poison as well as people roll poison pots to do further damage on top of those abilities. so your comparing vampire that maybe has 2 enemies being sorc bombers(if they roll fire staffs) or the occasional magdk versus werewolf whos enemy is every stamina player in the game ranging on all classes. the comparison on your end makes zero sense. and if your not gonna use the transformation why would you ever need it on your bar. and the real thing about this here thread is with choosing am i gonna be a vamp or a werewolf. the answers gonna be obvious because werewolf has no real viability over vampire. werewolf in pve is 100% worthless but in pvp you can probly hold your own for a short short time but your ultimately going to die without doing much damage. vampire youll skate through after killing hordes and keep going just fine.

Aznox

I agree that Werewolf is mostly fine on live when used optimally, and probably only needs some bugfix and a change to the morphs that are never used.

Summerset will also add a lot of things to explore with Werewolf, and unless they break our light attack damage we should remain viable in PvP.

People who suggest complete redesign or major changes should spend a bit more time to learn current Werewolf strength and potential, we can help if needed.

TrinityBreaker

Aznox wrote: »

I agree that Werewolf is mostly fine on live when used optimally, and probably only needs some bugfix and a change to the morphs that are never used.

Summerset will also add a lot of things to explore with Werewolf, and unless they break our light attack damage we should remain viable in PvP.

People who suggest complete redesign or major changes should spend a bit more time to learn current Werewolf strength and potential, we can help if needed.

Alright, I'll take you up on your offer(not trying to joke in any way, being serious).

RoyJade

Vampire is a passive state, werewolf an active one. Giving some passives buff to WW while in human form would not increase the number of werewolf, only the number of human with additional passives. That's not what WW needs, that's the exact opposite.
All buff and tweak to werewolves should only be active in werewolf form.

NyassaV

Qbiken wrote: »

diplomatt wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno so is werewolf just to the point it has no use anymore in the eyes of zos?? there hasnt been any decent buffs since it became practically worthless after the now needing to have it slotted to gain the stamina recovery nerf. yall have run this transformation into the ground to the point why would anyone run it when the obvious better choice is vampire for major protection comparible to health on top of stamina and magicka recovery and this is just standing. are yall just gonna keep killing werewolf or are yall finally thinking of a rework to this. im kindve tired of my favorite transformation through all the other elder scrolls being turned into a worthless pile of garbage.

i want to make for ww few things:
1. healing scaled with stamina. But, remove additional resists...berserk should not be tanky. Pure damage, and adequate healing. Nowadays, ww is not viable without healers around. No real werewolf pack possible. They have no real synergies to fight effective together or solo. Stupid for both cases. And in addition ... anything to counter snares and roots.
2. (cosmetic)female variation of form for female characters. I mean not breast etc, but another skeleton anatomy. More subtle shoulders, chest, hands, wider hips, more elegant head. Not functional, but its some love to werewolf in game in general.
3. (animation fix) dodge which look like dodge not stupid jump back, forward, left or right. It absolutly not recogniseable in fight. Hybrid of wolf and human should be able to dodge on his back

#1
No offense but these are absolutely horrible suggestion. The heal is immensely powerful if you build correctly for it. Even on a non-pelinial werewolf it heals for around 5-6k. On a good pelinial build you´ll have 10k+ heals. And you will still have really good damage.

People saying werewolf is weak in PvP need to L2P, sorry but that is 100% true. Removing the resistance is also a really bad suggestion. It´s one of the main reasons WW´s are somewhat decent. Werewolfs are good in 1v1, but don´t try to 1vX with them. And going with a werewolf + support is really strong. ( @Aznox can confirm that).

Your suggestions are bad, but I agree with werewolfs lacking synergies. Werewolfs need two thing, and two things only:
1. Bugfixes
2. More synergies for group-play.

Anything else that people say is weak about werewolf (at least for PvP) is 100% L2P issues.

Honestly... Yeah.. WW can get a buff when there are more forms of counter play than just Dongbreaker (Poison damage is a stamina thing so screw that man)

Koolio

Aznox wrote: »

I agree that Werewolf is mostly fine on live when used optimally, and probably only needs some bugfix and a change to the morphs that are never used.

Summerset will also add a lot of things to explore with Werewolf, and unless they break our light attack damage we should remain viable in PvP.

People who suggest complete redesign or major changes should spend a bit more time to learn current Werewolf strength and potential, we can help if needed.

This is a very true statement. I really feel as if they only real changes needed are Devour synergy cleanup and I would love snare immunity potions. I don’t even want snare immunity in form on skills.If they do It should be a trade off. If anything add to the other morph of Roar. 30% more damage or 2-3 snare immunity would be a good trade off IMO

Also a light and heavy attacks reliability. So many times I swing and should hit my target but it doesn’t.

Tasear

How do feel about werewolves in group play?

NyassaV

Tasear wrote: »

How do feel about werewolves in group play?

AAWWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Osubaker33

so no fix to the 20% less light attack damage again this week????

RoyJade

Nope, no fix this week (I've tested in case of sneaky fix). No acknowledgment either...

starkerealm

I'll throw this one out here... can we please just change the ultimate into a toggle?

Aznox

TrinityBreaker wrote: »

Aznox wrote: »

I agree that Werewolf is mostly fine on live when used optimally, and probably only needs some bugfix and a change to the morphs that are never used.

Summerset will also add a lot of things to explore with Werewolf, and unless they break our light attack damage we should remain viable in PvP.

People who suggest complete redesign or major changes should spend a bit more time to learn current Werewolf strength and potential, we can help if needed.

Alright, I'll take you up on your offer(not trying to joke in any way, being serious).

I'm on mobile right now but start with :
- 5h/1m/1l shacklebreaker with full tristat enchants
- troll king (solo) or mighty chudan (with a healer)
- a good weapon damage set like automaton
- werewolf ult on dual wield nirn/infused-WDglyph
- learn to land heavy attacks on off-balance targets for stamina sustain.
- only use the howl for burst only or on squishy targets.
- speed/lingering pots are your friends

DuskMarine

starkerealm wrote: »

I'll throw this one out here... can we please just change the ultimate into a toggle?

this i could agree with but while in human form gain 5-10% more damage 1-2k more resistance with the stamina recovery. but and heres where people will be enticed to actually play werewolf form. with the point that it being in pve cant hold up dps at all making it worthless in trials make it like sorcs overload in strength for a time say 20 secs post passives. it would make it actually worth while in pve and once again make it worth while in pvp because while in werewolf form youll gain much needed strength and survivability like in skyrim and morrowind. and battle spirit alone could bring it in line with everything else quite easily. it just needs more damage and survivability on top of passives thatll actually make it worthwhile being one even in human form over a vampire. and to keep it balanced keep the damage the werewolf form can dish out hooked to how much ultimate youve obtainned and make the cap somewhere around like warhorn or something like that? the more ultimate you have the more damage the form does. it really would be quite cool at that point.

KwarcPL

DuskMarine wrote: »

there hasnt been any decent buffs since it became practically worthless after the now needing to have it slotted to gain the stamina recovery nerf.

For me as a tank they were worthless from the begining. Without aggro they have no use in PvE...

dsalter

OGLezard wrote: »

Be careful......ww might get nerfed now.....

it kinda already did with the LA changes.

problem with werewolf is they are clunky as hell and easy to shut down. like. really easy.
as someone who has a WW who does small amounts of random vet and occasional PvP solo i suffer from being able to be locked down, kited and burst down more often than i can i can even stay engaged with a 1v1 or 1v2, tho magsorcs are tasty if they dont slot streak.

my main complaints with WW is how slow we are, how feeding actually CC's you and how expensive all the abilities+break free+dodge are.
solve these main issues and maybe more people will pick them up.

IlCanis_LupuslI

@dsalter How do you get "shut down really easily??" At least on my we I have 28. 5k HP, 49k Stam, 41k resistanc and 4.5k wd (Continious attack). My pelinals aptitude makes my heals strong af. Trust me you don't get shut down easily with those stats when you know what it doing. and the reason why ability costs are the highest in game, it's because the light attacks plus bleed do a lot of damage. Slow? Ever tried pushing down the joystick and sprinting? You'll be a lot faster when you do that... I can easily sustain my stamina in Werewolf Form with only 1.5k stamina.. My advice, heavy attack a lot more then you should have a lot less issues. To reduce the cost of breaking free or dodge rolls, invest at least 40 cp under warlord and tumbling. To make this short in all respects for your person, these mostly are L2P Issues that can be solved by asking a experienced werewolf player.