Preventing Time Stop exploitation

Vaoh

Synapsis123 wrote: »

Does it only apply the heal debuff if the person actually gets stunned or does it apply the heal debuff regardless of whether the person is stunned? The former would be fine.

Only if the player is stunned.

Ley

Seems like a pretty effective Lemming buster. I'm fine with it.

DuskMarine

Jeezye wrote: »

I am somewhat surprised this skill received so litte attention in the forums so far. For those who don't know the skill yet:

Time Stop - Freezes the passage of time at the target location, gradually reducing the Movement Speed of enemies in the area during the cast before finally stunning them in place when the cast completes.
Borrowed Time - Enemies that are stunned have their next heal completely negated for a few seconds.
Time Freeze - Removes the cast time, but it takes longer to stun enemies.

It is a very cool designed ability with striking visual effects, and extremely powerful to crowd control a group of enemies. Especially in PvP I can see much use to control choke points like towers or keeps. Also in PvE, CCing trash pulls can go a long way in certain situations. However, I think the skill will find more application in PvP, especially because of the first morph which will negate player healing.

In fact, I think the skill is loaded with so many unique and powerful effects that it is subject to be abused by nearly any coordinated group/ player, and here's why:

• it provides a long lasting AoE stun to enemies without any downside. Every character can slot this skill once he unlocked the skill line. The only ability in the game that is comparable to such a strong CC mechanic is NBs fear trap morph, which needs a number of conditions to trigger.
• the first morph applies a unique 5k healing reduction, which by itself is extremly strong. On top of that, it also applies to the whole group of effected targets.
• the cast time is really fast, it offers just a tiny period for players to move out of the area and they get hindered by an increasing slow on top of that. Additionally, the caster gets major proctection as passive effect which almost neglects the susceptibility of the cast time.
• it comes at a comparibly low magicka cost of 4,3k magicka which is just slightly higher than single target CCs like Stonfist (DK), Fear (NB), Rune Prison (sorc), and so on. With cost reduction, this skill can easily be spammed on magicka specs.
• it has a 28m range and therefore can be spammed from keep walls, back lines or other safe spots. I think forcing the caster to expose himself by making the skill target the location around him would be better, but for now it has a huge casting range.

Now if this skill only effected one target, I think it would be perfectly in line with the available stuns the game provides at the moment. But given that it effects all enemies in its area and facing the strong effects it provides, I can already see Cyrodiil and BGs littered with glowing bubbles.

Comparing the skill with other skills that provide that strong group utility like Purge and Siege Shield, I think the most evident way to prevent abuse would be to significantly increase the skill cost to at least 7k magicka.

I don't want the skills effect to change, since it is really unique and provide very interesting mechanics, but casting such a strong skill should come at a great expense with thorough timing.

Another option would be to remove the range of the skill so players need to move to the location they want to stop, which makes them more susceptible and exposed to enemy attacks.

Again I think ZOS did a great job with the design of that skill, but such a versatile skill packed with powerful effects should come at a much greater expense than it currently does.

Happy to hear other thoughts to convince me of the opposite

soooooooooooo a move you can roll dodge out of your saying can be abused more than someone who spams immobilizes that you cant really dodge to much............that takes effect immediately..........yea that makes sense

OGLezard

Forward momentum, unstoppable pots, break free, dodge roll, long list of ways to negate the snare and not be stuck in place. Skill seems very situational at best

Micah_Bayer

TheNuminous1 wrote: »

ugh pvp pls stawp. let me have new fun nice stuff without ruining it before you even have a chance to use it.

at worst it chokes a few points for a few seconds and at best its a zerg scatterer.

Ugh pve. Lame people who won't use this stuff anyways.

NyassaV

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Pay the money, win.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/411151/why-strife-is-being-changed#latest

Mystrius_Archaion

Time Stop is a hard stun so it can't be abused/expoited in pvp due to control immunity being triggered by this or the player breaking free.
It's the same as any other stun.

Better to use immobilizes or just snares in pvp, which is where the instant cast morph that takes longer to stun will be more useful in pvp due to the longer duration snare before the stun triggers.
Nobody seems to have thought of that.

Ludof

Jeezye wrote: »

I am somewhat surprised this skill received so litte attention in the forums so far. For those who don't know the skill yet:

Time Stop - Freezes the passage of time at the target location, gradually reducing the Movement Speed of enemies in the area during the cast before finally stunning them in place when the cast completes.
Borrowed Time - Enemies that are stunned have their next heal completely negated for a few seconds.
Time Freeze - Removes the cast time, but it takes longer to stun enemies.

It is a very cool designed ability with striking visual effects, and extremely powerful to crowd control a group of enemies. Especially in PvP I can see much use to control choke points like towers or keeps. Also in PvE, CCing trash pulls can go a long way in certain situations. However, I think the skill will find more application in PvP, especially because of the first morph which will negate player healing.

In fact, I think the skill is loaded with so many unique and powerful effects that it is subject to be abused by nearly any coordinated group/ player, and here's why:

• it provides a long lasting AoE stun to enemies without any downside. Every character can slot this skill once he unlocked the skill line. The only ability in the game that is comparable to such a strong CC mechanic is NBs fear trap morph, which needs a number of conditions to trigger.
• the first morph applies a unique 5k healing reduction, which by itself is extremly strong. On top of that, it also applies to the whole group of effected targets.
• the cast time is really fast, it offers just a tiny period for players to move out of the area and they get hindered by an increasing slow on top of that. Additionally, the caster gets major proctection as passive effect which almost neglects the susceptibility of the cast time.
• it comes at a comparibly low magicka cost of 4,3k magicka which is just slightly higher than single target CCs like Stonfist (DK), Fear (NB), Rune Prison (sorc), and so on. With cost reduction, this skill can easily be spammed on magicka specs.
• it has a 28m range and therefore can be spammed from keep walls, back lines or other safe spots. I think forcing the caster to expose himself by making the skill target the location around him would be better, but for now it has a huge casting range.

Now if this skill only effected one target, I think it would be perfectly in line with the available stuns the game provides at the moment. But given that it effects all enemies in its area and facing the strong effects it provides, I can already see Cyrodiil and BGs littered with glowing bubbles.

Comparing the skill with other skills that provide that strong group utility like Purge and Siege Shield, I think the most evident way to prevent abuse would be to significantly increase the skill cost to at least 7k magicka.

I don't want the skills effect to change, since it is really unique and provide very interesting mechanics, but casting such a strong skill should come at a great expense with thorough timing.

Another option would be to remove the range of the skill so players need to move to the location they want to stop, which makes them more susceptible and exposed to enemy attacks.

Again I think ZOS did a great job with the design of that skill, but such a versatile skill packed with powerful effects should come at a much greater expense than it currently does.

Happy to hear other thoughts to convince me of the opposite

I agree.

I think they should put these 2 dowsides:
-Cost should be increased to be in line with purge;
-The caster should be exposed to cast it (around himself).

At least just few high regen raid specs could run it with few downsides.

Juhasow

Increasing the cost will just cripple small scale players and benefit zergs like always so I dont think it is good idea. Also tbh if people would spam that it this would meean they dont know what to do since that ability is created for tactical use and lining it up with other abilities to create deadly combos not for brainless spam.

TheValar85

good i hope they leav this way, this skill actualy helps alot against ball groups in cyrodiil.

Enslaved

Pretty much a heal negate that can be spammed by anyone who payed for summerset. Skill is broken and will ruin PvP.

Would be better if what OP suggested was true - for skill to have no range but be placed around the caster. This would be logical as well, since psijic mages should be able to bend time and space around them, a.k.a. they should be the center of each time change they perform.

This skill combined with earthgore makes negates obsolete.

Qbiken

Joy_Division wrote: »

I can leave and the skill does nothing.

Add 200 + ping and low FPS (in large scale battles) and you´re not moving out anytime soon.....

Silver_Strider

Qbiken wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

I can leave and the skill does nothing.

Add 200 + ping and low FPS (in large scale battles) and you´re not moving out anytime soon.....

That's true of practically every ability though; hardly a justification for whether a skill overperforms or not. I mean, I could use Volcanic Rune and get a similar effect in that setting yet you don't exactly see people being popcorned in PvP very often nowadays. The snare on the skill is largely irrelevant considering practically everyone is running some form of removal for that (FM, Shuffle, Mist, etc.) only the stun will matter but considering the cast time (which has been increased slightly) it's fundamentally no different to Volcanic or Fear Runes as a ranged CC option and neither of those skills is exactly commonplace in PvP.

Time Stop and Morphs will be niche in PvP at best. It might see a lot of play early on just because its a new skill but after the novelty wears off, less and less people will run it in PvP, leaving it a mostly PvE skill.

DisgracefulMind

Personally, I'm terribly excited for this skill, it's going to be incredibly nice on my magplar in small scale >.>