Why Strife Is Being Changed

NyassaV

I figured it out. ZoS wants Imbue Weapon to be the cheapest spammable. By nerfing strife they are making Imbue weapon the cheapest magicka spammable. So It's just like when ZoS Destroyed Templar and gave all the fun things to Warden. GG ZoS

I feel kinda stupid it took me this long to figure it out. But too all those people who say it's because mag-blade is over preforming, you are "officially" incorrect now as that is not why Strife is being changed. That is why Path is being nerfed, not strife.

I've actually purchased the expansion so why am I still getting screwed over? C'mon guys

Lucky28

the thought had crossed my mind. outside of wanting to sell summerset the changes to strife don't make much sense.

Kova

It's really strange considering the psijic skill line increased magblade pve dps and imbue will make a reach + will combo even more deadly.

It definitely dents passive healing, but I can't think of any other reason but to sell the expansion.

Rohamad_Ali

What's worse is they got some player base to support it .

Lucky28

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

What's worse is they got some player base to support it .

well they didn't really get them. those people just don't like Nightblades and are happy to see any kind of nerf justified or not. and they'll continue [snip] about stamNB/incap XD

[Edited to remove profanity]

Rohamad_Ali

Lucky28 wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

What's worse is they got some player base to support it .

well they didn't really get them. those people just don't like Nightblades and are happy to see any kind of nerf justified or not. and they'll continue [snip] about incap XD it is pretty pitiful tho.

Yeah probably .

[Edited for quote]

Marabornwingrion

Every time they will release new abilities (from new class or guild skill lines), they will nerf some abilities in base game, just to encourage players to pay for the new abilities.

NyassaV

Astrid_V wrote: »

Every time they will release new abilities (from new class or guild skill lines), they will nerf some abilities in base game, just to encourage players to pay for the new abilities.

Which is sorta ok when it's just changing. But presently they are DESTROYING Strife. Like I have no reason to use it ever anymore.

Marabornwingrion

NyassaV wrote: »

Astrid_V wrote: »

Every time they will release new abilities (from new class or guild skill lines), they will nerf some abilities in base game, just to encourage players to pay for the new abilities.

Which is sorta ok when it's just changing. But presently they are DESTROYING Strife. Like I have no reason to use it ever anymore.

It really hurts me that they remove from classes their uniqueness, just to push players to buying new classes or skill lines.

Removing cheap cost from strife (like they already did in the past) is similar situation to changes that they've made in templars, when warden class was going to launch.

Checkmath

And i thought strife saw an increase to its costs, because it allowed mageblades much better sustain and therefore higher dps. If a class can sustain a light attack rotation with blue max stat food it surely will get higher dps than a class, which runs witchmothers potent brew or which has to include heavy attacks for sustaining.
So actually the nerf is because magblades have higher dps possibilities than other classes.

NyassaV

Checkmath wrote: »

And i thought strife saw an increase to its costs, because it allowed mageblades much better sustain and therefore higher dps. If a class can sustain a light attack rotation with blue max stat food it surely will get higher dps than a class, which runs witchmothers potent brew or which has to include heavy attacks for sustaining.
So actually the nerf is because magblades have higher dps possibilities than other classes.

No... You can still sustain with strife. It is very gullible of you to think that is why.

The Nerf is so everyone will buy summerset and use the newer spammable which is cheaper AND nets more DPS than using strife. Your reasoning is flawed. I'm personally very torn between the strife change and the new spammable. It's a love/hate relationship for me but I know many are not happy at all

Qbiken

Checkmath wrote: »

And i thought strife saw an increase to its costs, because it allowed mageblades much better sustain and therefore higher dps. If a class can sustain a light attack rotation with blue max stat food it surely will get higher dps than a class, which runs witchmothers potent brew or which has to include heavy attacks for sustaining.
So actually the nerf is because magblades have higher dps possibilities than other classes.

That is the reason. Magblade has been a no-brainer easymode since 3 patches. Simply because it´s so easy to sustain. Cheap spammable in combination with siphoning strikes (which is a great sustain tool btw) offers opportunities for great DPS, since you don´t have to put any effort into sustain on your build (in comparison to all other magicka classes).

Is the nerf motivated? Yes.
Is the nerf too harsh? Perhaps. Magblade is still sustainable with strife on the PTS. It´s not the end for magicka nigthblade.

Narvuntien

NyassaV wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

And i thought strife saw an increase to its costs, because it allowed mageblades much better sustain and therefore higher dps. If a class can sustain a light attack rotation with blue max stat food it surely will get higher dps than a class, which runs witchmothers potent brew or which has to include heavy attacks for sustaining.
So actually the nerf is because magblades have higher dps possibilities than other classes.

No... You can still sustain with strife. It is very gullible of you to think that is why.

The Nerf is so everyone will buy summerset and use the newer spammable which is cheaper AND nets more DPS than using strife. Your reasoning is flawed. I'm personally very torn between the strife change and the new spammable. It's a love/hate relationship for me but I know many are not happy at all

And it is very paranoid for you to think it is all about selling an expansion.

If the newer spammable does more dps annd even with the higher cost strife is still sustainable then what is the problem?

The new spammable would still do more dps whether or not you nerfed Strife and the nerf of strife apparently didn't change anything since you can still sustain.

Not to mention strife is only available to one of five classes... do you only play nightblade?... People that don't play nightblade would want to by the expansion for the new skill regardless of the strife nerf.

Nightblades had both the highest dps and the best sustain.. that's basically the definition of OP... you only get to have one of those two things.

Checkmath

Hehe funny how people agree and disagree on the same statement like this ^^

ascan7

Checkmath wrote: »

So actually the nerf is because magblades have higher dps possibilities than other classes.

They still have it using Force Pulse or Imbue Weapon, so i guess the nerf wasn't very successfull

Checkmath

ascan7 wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

So actually the nerf is because magblades have higher dps possibilities than other classes.

They still have it using Force Pulse or Imbue Weapon, so i guess the nerf wasn't very successfull

The possibilities mostly come from good sustain with siphoning strikes, nice recovery passives and low cost spammable like strife. If your skills cost less, you dont have to mind sustain and go full damage with bufffood and rotation. I am talking about this possibility, there fore a cost increase to strife will make an impact.

Roger_kun

Qbiken wrote: »

That is the reason. Magblade has been a no-brainer easymode since 3 patches. Simply because it´s so easy to sustain. Cheap spammable in combination with siphoning strikes (which is a great sustain tool btw) offers opportunities for great DPS, since you don´t have to put any effort into sustain on your build (in comparison to all other magicka classes).

Is the nerf motivated? Yes.
Is the nerf too harsh? Perhaps. Magblade is still sustainable with strife on the PTS. It´s not the end for magicka nigthblade.

Lolwut?

Magblades has good DPS? Oh, yeah, sorcs vilely giggle when they hear about it. Sorc inflicts more damage with heavy attacks than NB with light!

The main force of the NB is a good sustain, if the NB lose it, the class will be unviable.

Why no one nerf sorsc with his top DPS in magicka, but everyone is paying attention to other classes? Let's nerf NB, let's nerf DK, templar... Nobody wants nerf sorc!

NyassaV

Narvuntien wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

And i thought strife saw an increase to its costs, because it allowed mageblades much better sustain and therefore higher dps. If a class can sustain a light attack rotation with blue max stat food it surely will get higher dps than a class, which runs witchmothers potent brew or which has to include heavy attacks for sustaining.
So actually the nerf is because magblades have higher dps possibilities than other classes.

No... You can still sustain with strife. It is very gullible of you to think that is why.

The Nerf is so everyone will buy summerset and use the newer spammable which is cheaper AND nets more DPS than using strife. Your reasoning is flawed. I'm personally very torn between the strife change and the new spammable. It's a love/hate relationship for me but I know many are not happy at all

And it is very paranoid for you to think it is all about selling an expansion.

If the newer spammable does more dps annd even with the higher cost strife is still sustainable then what is the problem?

The new spammable would still do more dps whether or not you nerfed Strife and the nerf of strife apparently didn't change anything since you can still sustain.

Not to mention strife is only available to one of five classes... do you only play nightblade?... People that don't play nightblade would want to by the expansion for the new skill regardless of the strife nerf.

Nightblades had both the highest dps and the best sustain.. that's basically the definition of OP... you only get to have one of those two things.

Were you not around for last year's Warden introduction... yes this is partially about selling the expansion. If Balance was the main goal the cost would not be as much as force pulse, but slightly lower yet higher than it is now. Part of why it is the highest DPs is because it takes half a brain to DPS with unlike a DK rotation for example

NyassaV

Qbiken wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

And i thought strife saw an increase to its costs, because it allowed mageblades much better sustain and therefore higher dps. If a class can sustain a light attack rotation with blue max stat food it surely will get higher dps than a class, which runs witchmothers potent brew or which has to include heavy attacks for sustaining.
So actually the nerf is because magblades have higher dps possibilities than other classes.

That is the reason. Magblade has been a no-brainer easymode since 3 patches. Simply because it´s so easy to sustain. Cheap spammable in combination with siphoning strikes (which is a great sustain tool btw) offers opportunities for great DPS, since you don´t have to put any effort into sustain on your build (in comparison to all other magicka classes).

Is the nerf motivated? Yes.
Is the nerf too harsh? Perhaps. Magblade is still sustainable with strife on the PTS. It´s not the end for magicka nigthblade.

Magblade is not easymode and has never been easy mode due to the complex mechanics and 'rotation' it has... Easy mode would be stam DK

Qbiken

Roger_kun wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

That is the reason. Magblade has been a no-brainer easymode since 3 patches. Simply because it´s so easy to sustain. Cheap spammable in combination with siphoning strikes (which is a great sustain tool btw) offers opportunities for great DPS, since you don´t have to put any effort into sustain on your build (in comparison to all other magicka classes).

Is the nerf motivated? Yes.
Is the nerf too harsh? Perhaps. Magblade is still sustainable with strife on the PTS. It´s not the end for magicka nigthblade.

Lolwut?

Magblades has good DPS? Oh, yeah, sorcs vilely giggle when they hear about it. Sorc inflicts more damage with heavy attacks than NB with light!

The main force of the NB is a good sustain, if the NB lose it, the class will be unviable.

Why no one nerf sorsc with his top DPS in magicka, but everyone is paying attention to other classes? Let's nerf NB, let's nerf DK, templar... Nobody wants nerf sorc!

The main reason mag-sorcs are used in raids is because they have liquid lightning. Tanks use it to have higher uptime on stuff like Alkosh, which improves the groups DPS. A sorc will also provide a higher uptime on off-balance to the group, which once again provides more overall damage for the group.

But magsorc is not #1 spot for magicka DPS.

Qbiken

NyassaV wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

And i thought strife saw an increase to its costs, because it allowed mageblades much better sustain and therefore higher dps. If a class can sustain a light attack rotation with blue max stat food it surely will get higher dps than a class, which runs witchmothers potent brew or which has to include heavy attacks for sustaining.
So actually the nerf is because magblades have higher dps possibilities than other classes.

That is the reason. Magblade has been a no-brainer easymode since 3 patches. Simply because it´s so easy to sustain. Cheap spammable in combination with siphoning strikes (which is a great sustain tool btw) offers opportunities for great DPS, since you don´t have to put any effort into sustain on your build (in comparison to all other magicka classes).

Is the nerf motivated? Yes.
Is the nerf too harsh? Perhaps. Magblade is still sustainable with strife on the PTS. It´s not the end for magicka nigthblade.

Magblade is not easymode and has never been easy mode due to the complex mechanics and 'rotation' it has... Easy mode would be stam DK

A rotation that took like a 4-5 days of casual playing magblade to learn is not complex if you ask me.

But stamDK is more easy mode, that I agree with.

Lucky28

Narvuntien wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

And i thought strife saw an increase to its costs, because it allowed mageblades much better sustain and therefore higher dps. If a class can sustain a light attack rotation with blue max stat food it surely will get higher dps than a class, which runs witchmothers potent brew or which has to include heavy attacks for sustaining.
So actually the nerf is because magblades have higher dps possibilities than other classes.

No... You can still sustain with strife. It is very gullible of you to think that is why.

The Nerf is so everyone will buy summerset and use the newer spammable which is cheaper AND nets more DPS than using strife. Your reasoning is flawed. I'm personally very torn between the strife change and the new spammable. It's a love/hate relationship for me but I know many are not happy at all

And it is very paranoid for you to think it is all about selling an expansion.

If the newer spammable does more dps annd even with the higher cost strife is still sustainable then what is the problem?

The new spammable would still do more dps whether or not you nerfed Strife and the nerf of strife apparently didn't change anything since you can still sustain.

Not to mention strife is only available to one of five classes... do you only play nightblade?... People that don't play nightblade would want to by the expansion for the new skill regardless of the strife nerf.

Nightblades had both the highest dps and the best sustain.. that's basically the definition of OP... you only get to have one of those two things.

if this where a couple years ago you'd probably be right. However, the population as it is now is pitiful compared to what it was even at One Tamriel this game is not doing too well and i don't know how well the expansions are selling.

i bought summerset because it did look somewhat interesting and i haven't bought anything since thieves guild and i'm regretting the decisions now. if they did nerf strife to sell an expansion that is beyond scummy.

DuskMarine

NyassaV wrote: »

I figured it out. ZoS wants Imbue Weapon to be the cheapest spammable. By nerfing strife they are making Imbue weapon the cheapest magicka spammable. So It's just like when ZoS Destroyed Templar and gave all the fun things to Warden. GG ZoS

I feel kinda stupid it took me this long to figure it out. But too all those people who say it's because mag-blade is over preforming, you are "officially" incorrect now as that is not why Strife is being changed. That is why Path is being nerfed, not strife.

I've actually purchased the expansion so why am I still getting screwed over? C'mon guys

imbue weapons only really good with a magdk(cause flamelash is trash now) but as far as any other build i have absolutely no use for anything in the pssijic skill line outside of meditate and thats only for certain boss fights in trials.

Temeraire507

NyassaV wrote: »

I figured it out. ZoS wants Imbue Weapon to be the cheapest spammable. By nerfing strife they are making Imbue weapon the cheapest magicka spammable. So It's just like when ZoS Destroyed Templar and gave all the fun things to Warden. GG ZoS

I feel kinda stupid it took me this long to figure it out. But too all those people who say it's because mag-blade is over preforming, you are "officially" incorrect now as that is not why Strife is being changed. That is why Path is being nerfed, not strife.

I've actually purchased the expansion so why am I still getting screwed over? C'mon guys

Yeah lets get a new chapter for a class that is trash in PvE and somewhat good in PvP. I don't think that they 'destroyed templar' to sell warden. Warden is still only useful for funbuilds, a bit PvP action (No I don't think that they are really overperforming and surely they are not overpowered), tanks that are still not viable to replace DKs in any competitive content and healers that are nice but still worse than templars. Nice trade, isn't it?

The new psijic skill does not seem to be overperforming to me. It is nice for magicka DKs tho

Additionally I would advice you to improve your style/spelling in order to show others what you want to say. If anything is preforming people usually think that it is forming something (e.g. a group) before doing something else. The word you want to use in most of the threads I've seen from you is performing.

Edit: removed a useless statement

NyassaV

Strife now does less damage and drains your magic like hell

Dymence

NyassaV wrote: »

Strife now does less damage and drains your magic like hell

You'd have to do more parses than that to get an accurate representation of the differences in DPS.

Elemental weapons literally has the same damage as funnel, give or take 100-200 dmg on total max hits (on provided parses: 16154 avg 22220 max hit elemental weapons / 16041 avg 22076 max hit funnel).

So it comes down to a choice. Do you want to provide group support through offhealing? Or do you go with a slightly cheaper but full damage oriented spammable for that 100~ extra damage per hit? Sustain is obviously a non-issue anyways, as magblades can sustain any spammable regardless of cost.

But it is very clear that you can't just say the elemental weapons spec does 2k more dps compared to the funnel spec. 100 extra damage on a spammable is not going to make a dent in your overall sustained DPS. Every other perceived difference between the elemental weapons parse and funnel parse is due to mistakes in rotation and variations in crit rates. And on these specific parses, the funnel parse has 1 less Zaan proc. That's already 800 dps less on that parse due to RNG.

Temeraire507

NyassaV wrote: »

Strife now does less damage and drains your magic like hell

That is underlining your statement and I appreciate that you post this to help the discussion (instead of talking out of no prove like many people do).

Nevertheless this is not showing that the new skill is overperforming. You lost DPS on critluck. As you can see Assassins Will dropped by ~1k and Impale, Zaan and fiery rage dropped as well. Elemental weapon did less damage on its own than Funnel Health or Conceiled weapon did, which justifies a lower cost. Burning gained nothing from the additional proc chance and Minor Vulnerability is provided by others in competitive content. I agree that the (changed) NB skills drain too much magicka, but the new skill seems ok.

starkerealm

NyassaV wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

And i thought strife saw an increase to its costs, because it allowed mageblades much better sustain and therefore higher dps. If a class can sustain a light attack rotation with blue max stat food it surely will get higher dps than a class, which runs witchmothers potent brew or which has to include heavy attacks for sustaining.
So actually the nerf is because magblades have higher dps possibilities than other classes.

That is the reason. Magblade has been a no-brainer easymode since 3 patches. Simply because it´s so easy to sustain. Cheap spammable in combination with siphoning strikes (which is a great sustain tool btw) offers opportunities for great DPS, since you don´t have to put any effort into sustain on your build (in comparison to all other magicka classes).

Is the nerf motivated? Yes.
Is the nerf too harsh? Perhaps. Magblade is still sustainable with strife on the PTS. It´s not the end for magicka nigthblade.

Magblade is not easymode and has never been easy mode due to the complex mechanics and 'rotation' it has... Easy mode would be stam DK

Wait, a rotation? You mean staying chained to the bow proc every six seconds?

I mean, I love the class, but... the bow proc...

Abstraqt

If they're doing that then there's seriously something *** wrong with the people making decisions within zenimax.

Narvuntien

NyassaV wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

And i thought strife saw an increase to its costs, because it allowed mageblades much better sustain and therefore higher dps. If a class can sustain a light attack rotation with blue max stat food it surely will get higher dps than a class, which runs witchmothers potent brew or which has to include heavy attacks for sustaining.
So actually the nerf is because magblades have higher dps possibilities than other classes.

No... You can still sustain with strife. It is very gullible of you to think that is why.

The Nerf is so everyone will buy summerset and use the newer spammable which is cheaper AND nets more DPS than using strife. Your reasoning is flawed. I'm personally very torn between the strife change and the new spammable. It's a love/hate relationship for me but I know many are not happy at all

And it is very paranoid for you to think it is all about selling an expansion.

If the newer spammable does more dps annd even with the higher cost strife is still sustainable then what is the problem?

The new spammable would still do more dps whether or not you nerfed Strife and the nerf of strife apparently didn't change anything since you can still sustain.

Not to mention strife is only available to one of five classes... do you only play nightblade?... People that don't play nightblade would want to by the expansion for the new skill regardless of the strife nerf.

Nightblades had both the highest dps and the best sustain.. that's basically the definition of OP... you only get to have one of those two things.

Were you not around for last year's Warden introduction... yes this is partially about selling the expansion. If Balance was the main goal the cost would not be as much as force pulse, but slightly lower yet higher than it is now. Part of why it is the highest DPs is because it takes half a brain to DPS with unlike a DK rotation for example

Yes I was here. Turned out that:

Warden < Templar Healer.
Warden < Dragonknight tank.
MagWarden < Everything
StamWarden... only good in PVP.

What is your point???

By half a brain you mean having good ping so you can actually light attack between each skill... and having super awkward skill duration and animations so it isn't smooth to use.

Ideally everything should be brain dead on a target dummy and the difficulty should come from the individual boss fight mechanics. The nature of a rotation should be intuitive and easy to use on all classes.

Personally I would of made different changes... specifically I would keep mageblades sustain and reduce their damage... as oppose to removing sustain.

Xvorg

Checkmath wrote: »

And i thought strife saw an increase to its costs, because it allowed mageblades much better sustain and therefore higher dps. If a class can sustain a light attack rotation with blue max stat food it surely will get higher dps than a class, which runs witchmothers potent brew or which has to include heavy attacks for sustaining.
So actually the nerf is because magblades have higher dps possibilities than other classes.

No... Mageblade just replaces strife with force pulse and gets higher numbers. Strife was useful to proc healing sets.