PvP on this game is stupid
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Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »So you're opinionated based off the fact you have zero clue what you're doing and you call attention to that fact and reject any advise given to you.
What do you want?
So far I haven't heard much advice... at least none of any note.
Just some random chest thumping and vague boasts about how awesomely skilled they supposedly are.
You were using a high Magicka Regen build and mist form and noted your lack of sustain.
I suppose read the tooltips, learn game mechanics; understand the game functions. Because defensive healers are frequent in Cyrodiil, pirate Skeleton, wizards riposte, and transmutation are a common set people are running around with.
Post your build and CP spread, it would be easier to help you.
That was just one of dozens of builds I tried. But yes, I did attempt a mist form build with very high magicka regen hoping it could successfully escape from a dangerous situation. As I have already explained to you you - the high regen was intended to get magicka back inbetween mist form casts so as to use it quickly again. I'm well aware you do not gain magicka during mist form... so I did not need to read took tips to understand that.
I have also tried those sets you mentioned - and no - they will not keep a healer alive.
They work fine for successful healers, your lack of successful PvP attempts are indicative that you are the problem.
You make it very difficult to aid you when you blame everything else.
NO they don't.
As another poster noted - you can effectively counter heals on this game. Wearing pirate skeleton is not going to change that.
Edited by Jeremy on April 21, 2018 11:38PM0 -
Thogard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »So you're opinionated based off the fact you have zero clue what you're doing and you call attention to that fact and reject any advise given to you.
What do you want?
So far I haven't heard much advice... at least none of any note.
Just some random chest thumping and vague boasts about how awesomely skilled they supposedly are.
You were using a high Magicka Regen build and mist form and noted your lack of sustain.
I suppose read the tooltips, learn game mechanics; understand the game functions. Because defensive healers are frequent in Cyrodiil, pirate Skeleton, wizards riposte, and transmutation are a common set people are running around with.
Post your build and CP spread, it would be easier to help you.
That was just one of dozens of builds I tried. But yes, I did attempt a mist form build with very high magicka regen hoping it could successfully escape from a dangerous situation. As I have already explained to you you - the high regen was intended to get magicka back inbetween mist form casts so as to use it quickly again. I'm well aware you do not gain magicka during mist form... so I did not need to read took tips to understand that.
I have also tried those sets you mentioned - and no - they will not keep a healer alive.
They work fine for successful healers, your lack of successful PvP attempts are indicative that you are the problem.
You make it very difficult to aid you when you blame everything else.
NO they don't.
As another poster noted - you can effectively counter heals on this game.
But you can also counter the counter to healing.
Defile should be a debuff that you track closely. Block / avoid dmg while it’s up, and when you purify it / when it ends that’s when you should focus on healing back up.PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo
Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »So you're opinionated based off the fact you have zero clue what you're doing and you call attention to that fact and reject any advise given to you.
What do you want?
So far I haven't heard much advice... at least none of any note.
Just some random chest thumping and vague boasts about how awesomely skilled they supposedly are.
You were using a high Magicka Regen build and mist form and noted your lack of sustain.
I suppose read the tooltips, learn game mechanics; understand the game functions. Because defensive healers are frequent in Cyrodiil, pirate Skeleton, wizards riposte, and transmutation are a common set people are running around with.
Post your build and CP spread, it would be easier to help you.
That was just one of dozens of builds I tried. But yes, I did attempt a mist form build with very high magicka regen hoping it could successfully escape from a dangerous situation. As I have already explained to you you - the high regen was intended to get magicka back inbetween mist form casts so as to use it quickly again. I'm well aware you do not gain magicka during mist form... so I did not need to read took tips to understand that.
I have also tried those sets you mentioned - and no - they will not keep a healer alive.
They work fine for successful healers, your lack of successful PvP attempts are indicative that you are the problem.
You make it very difficult to aid you when you blame everything else.
NO they don't.
As another poster noted - you can effectively counter heals on this game.
But you can also counter the counter to healing.
Defile should be a debuff that you track closely. Block / avoid dmg while it’s up, and when you purify it / when it ends that’s when you should focus on healing back up.
Maybe against a single skilled opponent I could see these tactics working. But against multiple ones - I just don't see it.0 -
Thogard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »So you're opinionated based off the fact you have zero clue what you're doing and you call attention to that fact and reject any advise given to you.
What do you want?
So far I haven't heard much advice... at least none of any note.
Just some random chest thumping and vague boasts about how awesomely skilled they supposedly are.
You were using a high Magicka Regen build and mist form and noted your lack of sustain.
I suppose read the tooltips, learn game mechanics; understand the game functions. Because defensive healers are frequent in Cyrodiil, pirate Skeleton, wizards riposte, and transmutation are a common set people are running around with.
Post your build and CP spread, it would be easier to help you.
That was just one of dozens of builds I tried. But yes, I did attempt a mist form build with very high magicka regen hoping it could successfully escape from a dangerous situation. As I have already explained to you you - the high regen was intended to get magicka back inbetween mist form casts so as to use it quickly again. I'm well aware you do not gain magicka during mist form... so I did not need to read took tips to understand that.
I have also tried those sets you mentioned - and no - they will not keep a healer alive.
They work fine for successful healers, your lack of successful PvP attempts are indicative that you are the problem.
You make it very difficult to aid you when you blame everything else.
NO they don't.
As another poster noted - you can effectively counter heals on this game.
But you can also counter the counter to healing.
Defile should be a debuff that you track closely. Block / avoid dmg while it’s up, and when you purify it / when it ends that’s when you should focus on healing back up.
Maybe against a single skilled opponent I could see these tactics working. But against multiple ones - I just don't see it.
Have you not fought any builds like that? They’re hard to miss in cyrodil.
Go fight @Nihilos @raknarok @Kartalin @severok @zehebo @blainerevan @imperator talos or any of the other guys that run unkillable builds.
You keep saying these things but I hope you understand that you’re getting the reaction you’re getting because we see examples to the contrary all the timeEdited by Thogard on April 21, 2018 11:49PMPC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo
Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp1 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »You can absolutely run a healing/ support build and be unkillable against a set amount of players depending on their skill. Mag warden and magplar will get the job done for that, magplar is a bit easier for it though.
Sorry but no you can't.
You must have been fighting some horrible players.
Because all it takes is one skilled offensive player (let alone multiple ones) and he or she will be able to cut through your heals like a hot knife through butter.
Strategies that only work against terrible players do not count.
The average good player isn't xv1ing anyone.
But honestly from your replies you're either trolling, not willing to listen to others (aka narrow minded) and you're using this thread to vent rather than to actually get informed.
I listened and read your post. I just disagree with you - which isn't "trolling".
You're just incorrect. I know from personal experience that you aren't going to heal yourself through multiple opponents attacking you on this game. At least not against players who are worth a damn. And anyone who tries that strategy against skilled players is going to find that out the hard way.
And I did not create this thread with the purpose of being informed or to listen to others - and especially not others who are claiming you can heal through multiple opponents attacking you in PvP on this game, which is very bad advice.
I made this thread to voice my opinion as to this game's very lacking PvP experience.
Your experience isn't the truth.
Either way you can most certainly heal through multiple people and kill them while you're at it. Against good players obviously it changes, but the good player's typically aren't zergers. Even though you can stall if you're on a stamwarden if if they're good.
How long have you actually been pvping, that's the real question?
I've been PvPing off and on since 2014 as I said (since you think that matters). But I've invested the last week into some serious experimentation to see if any defensive strategies actually can succeed. So far that's a no.
I don't know what players you have been fighting to where you were able to successfully heal through multiple opponents attacking you at once - but all i can say is they were awful players and you should not judge PvP on that basis.
The game is still in a defensive (hold block and heal until more allies show up ) meta ,so I don't get why you think turtling isn't viable because it is. If you have been playing just a little you would have seen all the complaints about the tank meta. I mean to the point zos eventually threw out nerfs but they still overperform such as earthgore.
And it also seems that you're under the impression that the average player is just destroying everyone. When realistically the average player needs someone else to help kill an actual good player. Hence why you can heal, dodge, kite and play tag with the average player.
Of course you're going to get smacked if multiple GOOD player's are on you, that's in any pvp game.
This post doesn't make any sense as a response - because it was commenting on a post referring to "healing" as an effective way to defend one's self form multiple opponents. It's not.
I was not referring to a build that was focused on blocking.
The more you post it becomes more evident that you most likely don't know what you're doing, since you don't really have an argument and contradict yourself.
You complained that you can't stay alive against multiple people basically, I said you can (others as well ) then you said you can't unless they're bad. So that implies that you think you should do this against good player's. You have no argument or discussion to be had unless it fits your narrative.
No - what I said in that post was you were not going to heal yourself through multiple opponents attacking you. That just isn't going to happen - at least not against skilled players who do not suck.
I'm going to ignore your attempts to insult me as they aren't relevant to this discussion.
It is totally possible, but it requires a lot of skill and practice. You have to be adept at switching out the various defensive mechanics and timing them precisely to optimize resource management. Example would be blocking / mistform while defiled (alternating them), using resto ult to regain resources, Tap blocking CCs, dodgerolling once every 6s, keeping HoTs up, using burst heals after resto heavies, etc
This is true, but I definitely want to emphasize the skill and practice and experience this takes. The ability to do that isn't something a new player in PVP is going to pick up right away. Getting good, really good, at PVP takes a lot of practice.
I once had the perfect build, the old pre-Morrowind Blazeplar. Those blazing shield Templars were killing loads of people and everyone was complaining about how OP they were. So I made me a Blazeplar and...sucked. I sucked, because I was a newbie with the build, didn't know how to use it effectively, and because PVP builds are only as good as the person using them.
It takes practice to get good at PVP, no matter your build. So that advice above is great, but dont think it doesnt take a lot of practice.2 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »So you're opinionated based off the fact you have zero clue what you're doing and you call attention to that fact and reject any advise given to you.
What do you want?
So far I haven't heard much advice... at least none of any note.
Just some random chest thumping and vague boasts about how awesomely skilled they supposedly are.
You were using a high Magicka Regen build and mist form and noted your lack of sustain.
I suppose read the tooltips, learn game mechanics; understand the game functions. Because defensive healers are frequent in Cyrodiil, pirate Skeleton, wizards riposte, and transmutation are a common set people are running around with.
Post your build and CP spread, it would be easier to help you.
That was just one of dozens of builds I tried. But yes, I did attempt a mist form build with very high magicka regen hoping it could successfully escape from a dangerous situation. As I have already explained to you you - the high regen was intended to get magicka back inbetween mist form casts so as to use it quickly again. I'm well aware you do not gain magicka during mist form... so I did not need to read took tips to understand that.
I have also tried those sets you mentioned - and no - they will not keep a healer alive.
They work fine for successful healers, your lack of successful PvP attempts are indicative that you are the problem.
You make it very difficult to aid you when you blame everything else.
NO they don't.
As another poster noted - you can effectively counter heals on this game.
But you can also counter the counter to healing.
Defile should be a debuff that you track closely. Block / avoid dmg while it’s up, and when you purify it / when it ends that’s when you should focus on healing back up.
Maybe against a single skilled opponent I could see these tactics working. But against multiple ones - I just don't see it.
Have you not fought any builds like that? They’re hard to miss in cyrodil.
It's often hard to tell what builds people are as they go splat so fast they don't get a chance to do much.
But I have never seen a healer who was effective at staying alive against multiple opponents. I don't believe it's possible - as healing is too easy to counter on this game.Edited by Jeremy on April 21, 2018 11:48PM0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »You can absolutely run a healing/ support build and be unkillable against a set amount of players depending on their skill. Mag warden and magplar will get the job done for that, magplar is a bit easier for it though.
Sorry but no you can't.
You must have been fighting some horrible players.
Because all it takes is one skilled offensive player (let alone multiple ones) and he or she will be able to cut through your heals like a hot knife through butter.
Strategies that only work against terrible players do not count.
The average good player isn't xv1ing anyone.
But honestly from your replies you're either trolling, not willing to listen to others (aka narrow minded) and you're using this thread to vent rather than to actually get informed.
I listened and read your post. I just disagree with you - which isn't "trolling".
You're just incorrect. I know from personal experience that you aren't going to heal yourself through multiple opponents attacking you on this game. At least not against players who are worth a damn. And anyone who tries that strategy against skilled players is going to find that out the hard way.
And I did not create this thread with the purpose of being informed or to listen to others - and especially not others who are claiming you can heal through multiple opponents attacking you in PvP on this game, which is very bad advice.
I made this thread to voice my opinion as to this game's very lacking PvP experience.
Your experience isn't the truth.
Either way you can most certainly heal through multiple people and kill them while you're at it. Against good players obviously it changes, but the good player's typically aren't zergers. Even though you can stall if you're on a stamwarden if if they're good.
How long have you actually been pvping, that's the real question?
I've been PvPing off and on since 2014 as I said (since you think that matters). But I've invested the last week into some serious experimentation to see if any defensive strategies actually can succeed. So far that's a no.
I don't know what players you have been fighting to where you were able to successfully heal through multiple opponents attacking you at once - but all i can say is they were awful players and you should not judge PvP on that basis.
The game is still in a defensive (hold block and heal until more allies show up ) meta ,so I don't get why you think turtling isn't viable because it is. If you have been playing just a little you would have seen all the complaints about the tank meta. I mean to the point zos eventually threw out nerfs but they still overperform such as earthgore.
And it also seems that you're under the impression that the average player is just destroying everyone. When realistically the average player needs someone else to help kill an actual good player. Hence why you can heal, dodge, kite and play tag with the average player.
Of course you're going to get smacked if multiple GOOD player's are on you, that's in any pvp game.
This post doesn't make any sense as a response - because it was commenting on a post referring to "healing" as an effective way to defend one's self form multiple opponents. It's not.
I was not referring to a build that was focused on blocking.
The more you post it becomes more evident that you most likely don't know what you're doing, since you don't really have an argument and contradict yourself.
You complained that you can't stay alive against multiple people basically, I said you can (others as well ) then you said you can't unless they're bad. So that implies that you think you should do this against good player's. You have no argument or discussion to be had unless it fits your narrative.
No - what I said in that post was you were not going to heal yourself through multiple opponents attacking you. That just isn't going to happen - at least not against skilled players who do not suck.
I'm going to ignore your attempts to insult me as they aren't relevant to this discussion.
It is totally possible, but it requires a lot of skill and practice. You have to be adept at switching out the various defensive mechanics and timing them precisely to optimize resource management. Example would be blocking / mistform while defiled (alternating them), using resto ult to regain resources, Tap blocking CCs, dodgerolling once every 6s, keeping HoTs up, using burst heals after resto heavies, etc
This is true, but I definitely want to emphasize the skill and practice and experience this takes. The ability to do that isn't something a new player in PVP is going to pick up right away. Getting good, really good, at PVP takes a lot of practice.
I once had the perfect build, the old pre-Morrowind Blazeplar. Those blazing shield Templars were killing loads of people and everyone was complaining about how OP they were. So I made me a Blazeplar and...sucked. I sucked, because I was a newbie with the build, didn't know how to use it effectively, and because PVP builds are only as good as the person using them.
It takes practice to get good at PVP, no matter your build. So that advice above is great, but dont think it doesnt take a lot of practice.
Yes, but those blazing shield templars relied on block as their primary defnese (least the ones I fought did). They did not try to heal through the damage being done to them - as that would have ended in disaster.
I've fought quite a few of those - but I haven't seen them lately.Edited by Jeremy on April 21, 2018 11:49PM0 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Let me make a wild guess here. Jeremy, are you aware that you can heal while blocking?2 -
alephthiago✭✭✭✭✭There isnt a special build, i would say actually "ignore builds" you need to come up with something that is comfortable to you.
Your problems are lack of skill, lack of experience, lack of combat flow reading and tactical positioning, you are free to "rate" the game as you please, just wanted to let you know what is the actual problem hereWalks-in-Shadowss AD Magblade
*** kitty AD Stamblade
Paarthurnax's Will AD Magicka DK
agnar cracked skull EP Magicka DK (veteran dragonstar arena bot)
Klogi Mugdul AD Stamina DK
Savre Selranni AD Magicka Sorc (being polished)
Avenar Lolhealing AD Magicka Templar (being polished)4 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »You can absolutely run a healing/ support build and be unkillable against a set amount of players depending on their skill. Mag warden and magplar will get the job done for that, magplar is a bit easier for it though.
Sorry but no you can't.
You must have been fighting some horrible players.
Because all it takes is one skilled offensive player (let alone multiple ones) and he or she will be able to cut through your heals like a hot knife through butter.
Strategies that only work against terrible players do not count.
The average good player isn't xv1ing anyone.
But honestly from your replies you're either trolling, not willing to listen to others (aka narrow minded) and you're using this thread to vent rather than to actually get informed.
I listened and read your post. I just disagree with you - which isn't "trolling".
You're just incorrect. I know from personal experience that you aren't going to heal yourself through multiple opponents attacking you on this game. At least not against players who are worth a damn. And anyone who tries that strategy against skilled players is going to find that out the hard way.
And I did not create this thread with the purpose of being informed or to listen to others - and especially not others who are claiming you can heal through multiple opponents attacking you in PvP on this game, which is very bad advice.
I made this thread to voice my opinion as to this game's very lacking PvP experience.
Your experience isn't the truth.
Either way you can most certainly heal through multiple people and kill them while you're at it. Against good players obviously it changes, but the good player's typically aren't zergers. Even though you can stall if you're on a stamwarden if if they're good.
How long have you actually been pvping, that's the real question?
I've been PvPing off and on since 2014 as I said (since you think that matters). But I've invested the last week into some serious experimentation to see if any defensive strategies actually can succeed. So far that's a no.
I don't know what players you have been fighting to where you were able to successfully heal through multiple opponents attacking you at once - but all i can say is they were awful players and you should not judge PvP on that basis.
The game is still in a defensive (hold block and heal until more allies show up ) meta ,so I don't get why you think turtling isn't viable because it is. If you have been playing just a little you would have seen all the complaints about the tank meta. I mean to the point zos eventually threw out nerfs but they still overperform such as earthgore.
And it also seems that you're under the impression that the average player is just destroying everyone. When realistically the average player needs someone else to help kill an actual good player. Hence why you can heal, dodge, kite and play tag with the average player.
Of course you're going to get smacked if multiple GOOD player's are on you, that's in any pvp game.
This post doesn't make any sense as a response - because it was commenting on a post referring to "healing" as an effective way to defend one's self form multiple opponents. It's not.
I was not referring to a build that was focused on blocking.
The more you post it becomes more evident that you most likely don't know what you're doing, since you don't really have an argument and contradict yourself.
You complained that you can't stay alive against multiple people basically, I said you can (others as well ) then you said you can't unless they're bad. So that implies that you think you should do this against good player's. You have no argument or discussion to be had unless it fits your narrative.
No - what I said in that post was you were not going to heal yourself through multiple opponents attacking you. That just isn't going to happen - at least not against skilled players who do not suck.
I'm going to ignore your attempts to insult me as they aren't relevant to this discussion.
It is totally possible, but it requires a lot of skill and practice. You have to be adept at switching out the various defensive mechanics and timing them precisely to optimize resource management. Example would be blocking / mistform while defiled (alternating them), using resto ult to regain resources, Tap blocking CCs, dodgerolling once every 6s, keeping HoTs up, using burst heals after resto heavies, etc
This is true, but I definitely want to emphasize the skill and practice and experience this takes. The ability to do that isn't something a new player in PVP is going to pick up right away. Getting good, really good, at PVP takes a lot of practice.
I once had the perfect build, the old pre-Morrowind Blazeplar. Those blazing shield Templars were killing loads of people and everyone was complaining about how OP they were. So I made me a Blazeplar and...sucked. I sucked, because I was a newbie with the build, didn't know how to use it effectively, and because PVP builds are only as good as the person using them.
It takes practice to get good at PVP, no matter your build. So that advice above is great, but dont think it doesnt take a lot of practice.
Yes, but those blazing shield templars relied on block as their primary defnese (least the ones I fought did). They did not try to heal through the damage being done to them - as that would have ended in disaster.
I've fought quite a few of those - but I haven't seen them lately.
You missed my point. My point wasnt that you should try a Blazeplar. My point was that an OP build alone isn't going to make someone a good player or able to survive. Getting good at PVP takes practice.1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »You can absolutely run a healing/ support build and be unkillable against a set amount of players depending on their skill. Mag warden and magplar will get the job done for that, magplar is a bit easier for it though.
Sorry but no you can't.
You must have been fighting some horrible players.
Because all it takes is one skilled offensive player (let alone multiple ones) and he or she will be able to cut through your heals like a hot knife through butter.
Strategies that only work against terrible players do not count.
The average good player isn't xv1ing anyone.
But honestly from your replies you're either trolling, not willing to listen to others (aka narrow minded) and you're using this thread to vent rather than to actually get informed.
I listened and read your post. I just disagree with you - which isn't "trolling".
You're just incorrect. I know from personal experience that you aren't going to heal yourself through multiple opponents attacking you on this game. At least not against players who are worth a damn. And anyone who tries that strategy against skilled players is going to find that out the hard way.
And I did not create this thread with the purpose of being informed or to listen to others - and especially not others who are claiming you can heal through multiple opponents attacking you in PvP on this game, which is very bad advice.
I made this thread to voice my opinion as to this game's very lacking PvP experience.
Your experience isn't the truth.
Either way you can most certainly heal through multiple people and kill them while you're at it. Against good players obviously it changes, but the good player's typically aren't zergers. Even though you can stall if you're on a stamwarden if if they're good.
How long have you actually been pvping, that's the real question?
I've been PvPing off and on since 2014 as I said (since you think that matters). But I've invested the last week into some serious experimentation to see if any defensive strategies actually can succeed. So far that's a no.
I don't know what players you have been fighting to where you were able to successfully heal through multiple opponents attacking you at once - but all i can say is they were awful players and you should not judge PvP on that basis.
The game is still in a defensive (hold block and heal until more allies show up ) meta ,so I don't get why you think turtling isn't viable because it is. If you have been playing just a little you would have seen all the complaints about the tank meta. I mean to the point zos eventually threw out nerfs but they still overperform such as earthgore.
And it also seems that you're under the impression that the average player is just destroying everyone. When realistically the average player needs someone else to help kill an actual good player. Hence why you can heal, dodge, kite and play tag with the average player.
Of course you're going to get smacked if multiple GOOD player's are on you, that's in any pvp game.
This post doesn't make any sense as a response - because it was commenting on a post referring to "healing" as an effective way to defend one's self form multiple opponents. It's not.
I was not referring to a build that was focused on blocking.
The more you post it becomes more evident that you most likely don't know what you're doing, since you don't really have an argument and contradict yourself.
You complained that you can't stay alive against multiple people basically, I said you can (others as well ) then you said you can't unless they're bad. So that implies that you think you should do this against good player's. You have no argument or discussion to be had unless it fits your narrative.
No - what I said in that post was you were not going to heal yourself through multiple opponents attacking you. That just isn't going to happen - at least not against skilled players who do not suck.
I'm going to ignore your attempts to insult me as they aren't relevant to this discussion.
It is totally possible, but it requires a lot of skill and practice. You have to be adept at switching out the various defensive mechanics and timing them precisely to optimize resource management. Example would be blocking / mistform while defiled (alternating them), using resto ult to regain resources, Tap blocking CCs, dodgerolling once every 6s, keeping HoTs up, using burst heals after resto heavies, etc
This is true, but I definitely want to emphasize the skill and practice and experience this takes. The ability to do that isn't something a new player in PVP is going to pick up right away. Getting good, really good, at PVP takes a lot of practice.
I once had the perfect build, the old pre-Morrowind Blazeplar. Those blazing shield Templars were killing loads of people and everyone was complaining about how OP they were. So I made me a Blazeplar and...sucked. I sucked, because I was a newbie with the build, didn't know how to use it effectively, and because PVP builds are only as good as the person using them.
It takes practice to get good at PVP, no matter your build. So that advice above is great, but dont think it doesnt take a lot of practice.
Yes, but those blazing shield templars relied on block as their primary defnese (least the ones I fought did). They did not try to heal through the damage being done to them - as that would have ended in disaster.
I've fought quite a few of those - but I haven't seen them lately.
You missed my point. My point wasnt that you should try a Blazeplar. My point was that an OP build alone isn't going to make someone a good player or able to survive. Getting good at PVP takes practice.
I'm sure it does - as any build requires practice. But you can still get a good idea as to whether it has potential or not. And I just don't see any way for a build that relies on healing as its primary defense to survive multiple opponents. It's just too easy to counter.
Edited by Jeremy on April 22, 2018 12:00AM0 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
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But that is the thing. No single defensive mechanic will allow you to 1vX. It's about utilizing them all and knowing when you have to dodge, block, heal, LoS, stun or mist form. You can't just say "healing will be my primary defense".3 -
Thogard✭✭✭✭✭
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But that is the thing. No single defensive mechanic will allow you to 1vX. It's about utilizing them all and knowing when you have to dodge, block, heal, LoS, stun or mist form. You can't just say "healing will be my primary defense".
well putPC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo
Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
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But that is the thing. No single defensive mechanic will allow you to 1vX. It's about utilizing them all and knowing when you have to dodge, block, heal, LoS, stun or mist form. You can't just say "healing will be my primary defense".
Healers are primarily built to heal - which is they are called healers.
So they aren't going to be able to sustain enough blocks to fend off multiple opponents like that. That's what I am saying.
Edited by Jeremy on April 22, 2018 12:04AM1 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
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But that is the thing. No single defensive mechanic will allow you to 1vX. It's about utilizing them all and knowing when you have to dodge, block, heal, LoS, stun or mist form. You can't just say "healing will be my primary defense".
This ^ and knowing how and when to utilize all those defensive tactics and executing them effectively takes practice.0 -
Thogard✭✭✭✭✭
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But that is the thing. No single defensive mechanic will allow you to 1vX. It's about utilizing them all and knowing when you have to dodge, block, heal, LoS, stun or mist form. You can't just say "healing will be my primary defense".
Healers are primarily built to heal - which is they are called healers.
So they aren't going to be able to sustain enough blocks to fend off multiple opponents like that. That's what I am saying.
And what we're saying is that you have no clue what you're talking about.
Most end-game PvP healers can permablock, or come close to it.
*the best ones don't build that way, but most end-game pvp healers do.
EDIT: you clearly came here to complain, not to learn.
You want to stay bad and you don't want to improve.
That's on you.Edited by Thogard on April 22, 2018 12:06AMPC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo
Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp7 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »
But that is the thing. No single defensive mechanic will allow you to 1vX. It's about utilizing them all and knowing when you have to dodge, block, heal, LoS, stun or mist form. You can't just say "healing will be my primary defense".
This ^ and knowing how and when to utilize all those defensive tactics and executing them effectively takes practice.
This sounds good in theory - but when a healer is getting pounded by multiple opponents spamming stuns and massive burst damage is just don't work that way.
The only way a healer could effectively stay alive is if mist form was an effective means of escape. And I don't believe it is. This idea that healers are going to be able to combine multiple defensive tactics to stay alive just isn't realistic.Edited by Jeremy on April 22, 2018 12:07AM0 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
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But that is the thing. No single defensive mechanic will allow you to 1vX. It's about utilizing them all and knowing when you have to dodge, block, heal, LoS, stun or mist form. You can't just say "healing will be my primary defense".
Healers are primarily built to heal - which is they are called healers.
So they aren't going to be able to sustain enough blocks to fend off multiple opponents like that. That's what I am saying.
Welcome to PvP, where every other healer actually runs a sword and shield on their backbar to defend themselves if they are getting focused. Stacking you bar with just healing is not in any way related to PvP healing.0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
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But that is the thing. No single defensive mechanic will allow you to 1vX. It's about utilizing them all and knowing when you have to dodge, block, heal, LoS, stun or mist form. You can't just say "healing will be my primary defense".
Healers are primarily built to heal - which is they are called healers.
So they aren't going to be able to sustain enough blocks to fend off multiple opponents like that. That's what I am saying.
And what we're saying is that you have no clue what you're talking about.
Most end-game PvP healers can permablock, or come close to it.
*the best ones don't build that way, but most end-game pvp healers do.
EDIT: you clearly came here to complain, not to learn.
You want to stay bad and you don't want to improve.
That's on you.
If you are able to perma block then you are of course built to perma block.
I never said healers couldn't build their characters to where they can block effectively - but it would require a block build to do so.
So you're just proving my point for me - that even healers have to build their characters to block to stay alive.
But that is the thing. No single defensive mechanic will allow you to 1vX. It's about utilizing them all and knowing when you have to dodge, block, heal, LoS, stun or mist form. You can't just say "healing will be my primary defense".
Healers are primarily built to heal - which is they are called healers.
So they aren't going to be able to sustain enough blocks to fend off multiple opponents like that. That's what I am saying.
Welcome to PvP, where every other healer actually runs a sword and shield on their backbar to defend themselves if they are getting focused. Stacking you bar with just healing is not in any way related to PvP healing.
And that is what I believe is stupid.
There should be other ways to effectively defend yourself other than having to create a block build. But I've come to the same conclusion they have - there really isn't - so I don't really blame every other healer for doing it. You really have if you don't want to go splat all the time.Edited by Jeremy on April 22, 2018 12:16AM0 -
LittlePinkDot✭✭✭✭✭I hate to be so blunt, but after experimenting in Cyrodil over the last week I'm left with no other conclusion.
Max resist + Impentrable = dead
Healing is useless if you are being attacked - as they will just stun you = dead - or simply hack you with massive damage until you run out of magicka = dead
The only skill on this game that seems to make me not = dead is mist form, of which costs too much to sustain. So all they have to do is chase you until you run out of magicka and then you = dead.
In short: this game's PvP is nothing more than a numbers game with people being burst to death and no way to counter it. At least not that I have found...unless there is some "special build" out there that actually allows you to live in an actual fight. And even then it's rather stupid - as anyone with max resist and plenty of impenetrable should not be able to die in a matter of seconds (if that).
When I have more fun fighting the PvE mobs in Cyrodil than I do actual other players then there's a problem with the quality of this game's PvP.
So I'm sorry to say I gave this game very low marks on PvP. It looked fun at first - with a massive area with plenty of objectives. But the actual core combat is just too lame for me to ever have any kind of fun in it. I suppose I may try some kind of block strategy next... where maybe I can sit there and just hold block when I"m attacked and live. But that really doesn't sound like much fun...
As a fairly new player myself I can tell you I like stamina characters better. I can dodgeroll and block. Magicka characters run out of stamina if they block and roll dodge anymore than 2 times.3 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LittlePinkDot wrote: »I hate to be so blunt, but after experimenting in Cyrodil over the last week I'm left with no other conclusion.
Max resist + Impentrable = dead
Healing is useless if you are being attacked - as they will just stun you = dead - or simply hack you with massive damage until you run out of magicka = dead
The only skill on this game that seems to make me not = dead is mist form, of which costs too much to sustain. So all they have to do is chase you until you run out of magicka and then you = dead.
In short: this game's PvP is nothing more than a numbers game with people being burst to death and no way to counter it. At least not that I have found...unless there is some "special build" out there that actually allows you to live in an actual fight. And even then it's rather stupid - as anyone with max resist and plenty of impenetrable should not be able to die in a matter of seconds (if that).
When I have more fun fighting the PvE mobs in Cyrodil than I do actual other players then there's a problem with the quality of this game's PvP.
So I'm sorry to say I gave this game very low marks on PvP. It looked fun at first - with a massive area with plenty of objectives. But the actual core combat is just too lame for me to ever have any kind of fun in it. I suppose I may try some kind of block strategy next... where maybe I can sit there and just hold block when I"m attacked and live. But that really doesn't sound like much fun...
As a fairly new player myself I can tell you I like stamina characters better. I can dodgeroll and block. Magicka characters run out of stamina if they block and roll dodge anymore than 2 times.
I'm starting to lean that way myself - since it seems like block and doge roll are really the only effective ways to defend yourself in PvP on this game.
I'm going to try using that Desert rose and Syrabane sets see if that helps. If not - I may just go stamina also.0 -
Unfadingsilence✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rohamad_Ali wrote: »I think PvP is awesome here . The only thing that ruins my fun is lag . Everything else is very enjoyable .
I think it's safe to say the two of us have very different ideas about what is "awesome" and what is not.
What is "awesome" pvp then? I also find ESO pvp very fun, especially solo, small, med, or zerg play
1vX extremely fun and Xv1 if I'm looking to zerg down low number players and take keeps and make that AP, I am working on my second 5 star PVP rank and definitely not getting bored at all and once it's done ill be working on my 3rd0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Unfadingsilence wrote: »Rohamad_Ali wrote: »I think PvP is awesome here . The only thing that ruins my fun is lag . Everything else is very enjoyable .
I think it's safe to say the two of us have very different ideas about what is "awesome" and what is not.
What is "awesome" pvp then? I also find ESO pvp very fun, especially solo, small, med, or zerg play
1vX extremely fun and Xv1 if I'm looking to zerg down low number players and take keeps and make that AP, I am working on my second 5 star PVP rank and definitely not getting bored at all and once it's done ill be working on my 3rd
Awesome PvP is PvP that is fun - and I just don't find PvP on ESO very entertaining.
As I explained in my OP - it's just a numbers game with a lot of high-offense builds running around murdering everyone in seconds who isn't holding their block button. Even when I'm on the winning side it isn't fun - as it's just splat.... splat.... splat. There is very little actual combat or back and forth.
0 -
Unfadingsilence✭✭✭✭✭
✭Unfadingsilence wrote: »Rohamad_Ali wrote: »I think PvP is awesome here . The only thing that ruins my fun is lag . Everything else is very enjoyable .
I think it's safe to say the two of us have very different ideas about what is "awesome" and what is not.
What is "awesome" pvp then? I also find ESO pvp very fun, especially solo, small, med, or zerg play
1vX extremely fun and Xv1 if I'm looking to zerg down low number players and take keeps and make that AP, I am working on my second 5 star PVP rank and definitely not getting bored at all and once it's done ill be working on my 3rd
Awesome PvP is PvP that is fun - and I just don't find PvP on ESO very entertaining.
As I explained in my OP - it's just a numbers game with a lot of high-offense builds running around murdering everyone in seconds who isn't holding their block button. Even when I'm on the winning side it isn't fun - as it's just splat.... splat.... splat. There is very little actual combat or back and forth.
I understand but at the same time if I'm trying to 1vX I'm definitely nowhere near any zergs because then it just becomes 30+v1 and it's no fun and being away from those kinda fights especially solo or small group 1-5 people then those are extremely fun in this game, especially when you get a good 1v5+0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Unfadingsilence wrote: »Unfadingsilence wrote: »Rohamad_Ali wrote: »I think PvP is awesome here . The only thing that ruins my fun is lag . Everything else is very enjoyable .
I think it's safe to say the two of us have very different ideas about what is "awesome" and what is not.
What is "awesome" pvp then? I also find ESO pvp very fun, especially solo, small, med, or zerg play
1vX extremely fun and Xv1 if I'm looking to zerg down low number players and take keeps and make that AP, I am working on my second 5 star PVP rank and definitely not getting bored at all and once it's done ill be working on my 3rd
Awesome PvP is PvP that is fun - and I just don't find PvP on ESO very entertaining.
As I explained in my OP - it's just a numbers game with a lot of high-offense builds running around murdering everyone in seconds who isn't holding their block button. Even when I'm on the winning side it isn't fun - as it's just splat.... splat.... splat. There is very little actual combat or back and forth.
I understand but at the same time if I'm trying to 1vX I'm definitely nowhere near any zergs because then it just becomes 30+v1 and it's no fun and being away from those kinda fights especially solo or small group 1-5 people then those are extremely fun in this game, especially when you get a good 1v5+
I suppose. Though I find my criticisms relate to small scale PvP as well. So I'm not sure it makes all that much difference.
The damage on this game is just way out of control. People simply die before they have a chance to have any fun. But that's just my opinion. I'm glad you're having fun. ^^Edited by Jeremy on April 22, 2018 1:18AM0 -
LittlePinkDot✭✭✭✭✭LittlePinkDot wrote: »I hate to be so blunt, but after experimenting in Cyrodil over the last week I'm left with no other conclusion.
Max resist + Impentrable = dead
Healing is useless if you are being attacked - as they will just stun you = dead - or simply hack you with massive damage until you run out of magicka = dead
The only skill on this game that seems to make me not = dead is mist form, of which costs too much to sustain. So all they have to do is chase you until you run out of magicka and then you = dead.
In short: this game's PvP is nothing more than a numbers game with people being burst to death and no way to counter it. At least not that I have found...unless there is some "special build" out there that actually allows you to live in an actual fight. And even then it's rather stupid - as anyone with max resist and plenty of impenetrable should not be able to die in a matter of seconds (if that).
When I have more fun fighting the PvE mobs in Cyrodil than I do actual other players then there's a problem with the quality of this game's PvP.
So I'm sorry to say I gave this game very low marks on PvP. It looked fun at first - with a massive area with plenty of objectives. But the actual core combat is just too lame for me to ever have any kind of fun in it. I suppose I may try some kind of block strategy next... where maybe I can sit there and just hold block when I"m attacked and live. But that really doesn't sound like much fun...
As a fairly new player myself I can tell you I like stamina characters better. I can dodgeroll and block. Magicka characters run out of stamina if they block and roll dodge anymore than 2 times.
I'm starting to lean that way myself - since it seems like block and doge roll are really the only effective ways to defend yourself in PvP on this game.
I'm going to try using that Desert rose and Syrabane sets see if that helps. If not - I may just go stamina also.
Well magicka shields like harness magicka or sorcs hardened ward are suppose to work, but you have to remember to recast it before i it expires and theres no visual cue to tell you when its gone. For magicka characters you need like 30+ cp points ointo warlord for break free, and co points into shadow ward and tumbling. I started with sorc, although only pve with her. I feel like I need to be closer to max CP to make a magicka toon work. The cp is just too important IMO for magicka toons.0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LittlePinkDot wrote: »LittlePinkDot wrote: »I hate to be so blunt, but after experimenting in Cyrodil over the last week I'm left with no other conclusion.
Max resist + Impentrable = dead
Healing is useless if you are being attacked - as they will just stun you = dead - or simply hack you with massive damage until you run out of magicka = dead
The only skill on this game that seems to make me not = dead is mist form, of which costs too much to sustain. So all they have to do is chase you until you run out of magicka and then you = dead.
In short: this game's PvP is nothing more than a numbers game with people being burst to death and no way to counter it. At least not that I have found...unless there is some "special build" out there that actually allows you to live in an actual fight. And even then it's rather stupid - as anyone with max resist and plenty of impenetrable should not be able to die in a matter of seconds (if that).
When I have more fun fighting the PvE mobs in Cyrodil than I do actual other players then there's a problem with the quality of this game's PvP.
So I'm sorry to say I gave this game very low marks on PvP. It looked fun at first - with a massive area with plenty of objectives. But the actual core combat is just too lame for me to ever have any kind of fun in it. I suppose I may try some kind of block strategy next... where maybe I can sit there and just hold block when I"m attacked and live. But that really doesn't sound like much fun...
As a fairly new player myself I can tell you I like stamina characters better. I can dodgeroll and block. Magicka characters run out of stamina if they block and roll dodge anymore than 2 times.
I'm starting to lean that way myself - since it seems like block and doge roll are really the only effective ways to defend yourself in PvP on this game.
I'm going to try using that Desert rose and Syrabane sets see if that helps. If not - I may just go stamina also.
Well magicka shields like harness magicka or sorcs hardened ward are suppose to work, but you have to remember to recast it before i it expires and theres no visual cue to tell you when its gone. For magicka characters you need like 30+ cp points ointo warlord for break free, and co points into shadow ward and tumbling. I started with sorc, although only pve with her. I feel like I need to be closer to max CP to make a magicka toon work. The cp is just too important IMO for magicka toons.
Yeah warlord does seem necessary or at least preferred - which is another problem for magicka classes in Cyrodil as that means you essentially have to pay 3k every time you want to PvP unless you want to gimp yourself in PvE.
I was in a rather large PvP group the other night and we were having some success until our entire alliance got bulldozed almost instantly by a sea of yellow lol and I asked the leader how do you stay alive in PvP on this game? (as I had about run out of ideas). He responded in what was probably the most accurate and truthful answer I've heard yet - "you don't". Edited by Jeremy on April 22, 2018 1:35AM0 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You still haven’t posted your class/race or gear. Your CP point disribution may be entirely wrong. How many CP do you have? Are you playing in a CP campaign or no CP?
You’re dying quickly because you don’t understand your class and how to react to what’s coming at you. You don’t need defensive sets to stay alive, you need to understand the list of mitigation skills at your disposal and how and when to use them which can only come from practice. It’s also about being able to recognize about how much damage is going to be coming your way based on how players are fighting and you can assume their skil level. PvP in this game takes months or even years to get reallly good. And only from repeated trial and error. You can put on all the defensive sets in this game and eventually you will still die. I ran into a super tanky DK with three other people, I haven’t seen a tank this tough for some time, not since they nerfed alll the unkillable builds. It took us a full 5-10 minutes of non stop damage rotations to take this person down but we still did in the end. Point being that at best you can run for a while but trying to figure out a build or some trick that will just let you survive isn’t the way to go. If you are actually interested in PvP then learn how to play and don’t pray for some magical set to help you. Tbh if you put on Meridias blessing and troll king you’re still gonna die really fast. But if you’re not gonna let people know what you’re running then go to YouTube and look up some builds or something.Edited by Vapirko on April 22, 2018 1:52AM4 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You still haven’t posted your class/race or gear. Your CP point disruption may be entirely wrong. How many CP do you have? Are you playing in a CP campaign or no CP?
You’re dying quickly because you don’t understand your class and how to react to what’s coming at you...
Then everyone else I have encountered in Cyrodil must not understand their classes or how to react either - as they all died with near or equal speed. ^^
That seems to be something most of the people in Cyrodil have in common - except for the master PvPers who hang out on the forums of course.
And I have already explained - I have no PvP build to post. I have tried out many different builds - none of which I found to my liking. I'm going to try some kind of "block build" next - as that really does seem to be the only way one can effectively defend themselves in PvP on this game.Edited by Jeremy on April 22, 2018 2:03AM1