PvP on this game is stupid

Jeremy

Schallen wrote: »

I'm pretty bad at PVP myself, but I've seen myself getting better and better from practice. You can't just slap on gold gear and expect to kill everyone. More importantly, you have to pick your battles. If you jump into a 4 v 1 you're going to have a bad time.

And what if 4 people jump you?

Instant death every time you get outnumbered on content where you are likely to frequently get outnumbered doesn't sound like much fun.

And lo and behold, it turns out it isn't.

This game needs better defensive and escape options. That would help it's pvp. This going splat all the time just isn't enjoyable.

Jeremy

Waffennacht wrote: »

Resistance is the worst method of damage mitigation in PvP.

It's very expensive (opportunity cost) and isn't very reliable (i.e. opponents' penetration)

Best mitigation:

Block with SnB
Dodge Roll

These two are close to each other. Dodge roll would be the best if it wasn't for undodgeable attacks. Block via SnB will reduce almost everything to 20% or less of its damage.

Then you have Shields which scale poorly to players, being very effective against a lone combatant

Then heals - i.e. BoL with a crit can be worth 10k and resistance - defile can destroy heals and resistance can be potentially mitigated.

If you're running a bunch of resistance and impen, I bet you're not sustaining well at all.

On that we can agree. Resistance is basically worthless. That was my point.

And as you say - healing is far too easy to counter as well. It is basically worthless also if you are under attack and is really only effective as support.

Block might could be effective. As I said - that's my next experiment. Though it's kind of stupid if that's the only way to actually employ an effective defense on this game. But so far I can personally attest that resistance, healing, and mist form are all useless endeavors as a means to defend yourself on this game.

CatchMeTrolling

Sounds like a lack of experience really, because I can be in medium armor and be annoying to kill outnumbered against the average player without dying in seconds.

You can absolutely run a healing/ support build and be unkillable against a set amount of players depending on their skill. Mag warden and magplar will get the job done for that, magplar is a bit easier for it though.

If you're trying to go the face tank/turtling route put on sets like wizards, your choice of heavy and earthgore and stall fights doing the absolute bare minimum.

The game is pretty decent in terms of damage and healing because while I can build to hit like a truck I can also build my self up to be a complete nuisance.

I'd agree numbers is a big thing in cyrodiil but I completely disagree that the game catered to offensive playstyles. Especially since we're still in the tank/defile meta.

Jeremy

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

You can absolutely run a healing/ support build and be unkillable against a set amount of players depending on their skill. Mag warden and magplar will get the job done for that, magplar is a bit easier for it though.

Sorry but no you can't.

You must have been fighting some horrible players.

Because all it takes is one skilled offensive player (let alone multiple ones) and he or she will be able to cut through your heals like a hot knife through butter.

Strategies that only work against terrible players do not count.

Biro123

Hmm.. OP has experimented with PvP for a week and thinks he knows better than those who have been playing for years....

Not worth the time trying to explain/help. He obviously already knows it all...

In the meantime, decent players will keep surviving, and keep having drawn-out fights with decent opponents, and continue to burst down those who don't want to learn.

VaranisArano

Jeremy wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I started having fun in PVP when I joined up with a PVP guild that ran organized raid. They knew what they were doing and so I survived much longer when I played with them, felt like I could contribute more and more effectively, and managed to learn a lot about PVP in the process.

I'm still not all that great in a 1v1 fight because I played a group healer for a long time, but I've really enjoyed the PVP experience - which I never wouldve believed when I started ESO straight out of single-player Skyrim.

If its worth it to you, stick it out, maybe find a good PVP guild and practice. PVP has a steep learning curve. But if you know its not worth the time and effort for you, thats totally fine for you. I tried PVP and eventually learned to like it but I dont expect the same to be true of everyone. So people experience it, learn how to do it, and still dont like it much (same for PVE too.)

Usually in PvP on games I create a defensive or mobile healer who specializes on assisting allies and avoiding death if I'm engaged. That seems impossible on this game because offensive strategies dominate.

That's my issue.

Ive got a group healer that I play with my group and I, well let me be completely honest here, I zerg-surf with when I'm not with my raid. She's a MagDK with a resto staff, so pretty tanky and good at group healing, but not as healing oriented as a templar.

In the early days when I did a lot of zerg-surfing, I got tanky. I mean, Plague Doctor and 40k health because that let me survive better. Healing non-organized players (the zerg) takes a lot of alertness and awareness of how the battle is going. I died a lot while I was learning when to jump off the walls, when we were gonna get overrun anyway, and when we were,winning so I could press forward. Generally, I still died in a 1v1 fight, because PVP healing is more about healing proactively instead of sheer burst.

From that experience, I learned how to move on the battlefield, how to heal and not overextend, and got to the point that I'm now in light armor again, 28k health and doing even better than I was in my newbie Plague Doctor. But when I was new, I really needed that health cushion, in order to live long enough to understand the battle, what tactics worked and what tactics didn't.

If you want to be a defensive or mobile healer, I really recommend looking for a PVP group or guild. I started to learn to heal disorganized players. Healing organized groups is much, much more fun and easier since you are supporting and healing your group and they are helping to defend you. Organized groups always need good healers and IMO its more rewarding than healing the zerg.

This reinforces my complaint. Any skilled offensive player is going to be able to eat someone for breakfast if they attempt to play defensive and keep themselves alive through heals unless they have an organized team to depend on. Because there really is no effective defensive strategy that I have found or seen that involves healing or defense. Both are just too easy to counter by a well-executed offense.

Maybe before they nerfed immovable I might could have came up with something using an ice staff to block with combined with Desert Rose and Syrabane. That was something I was considering. But I really just don't see that working either as they would likely just stun and burst dead..

I'm going to be completely honest here. Cyrodiil is designed for groups of 2 to 24 people. Says so right in the tooltip. Of course PVP is better with an organized team! Same thing in battlegrounds. Its designed for 4v4v4 team play. The more organized, the better.

Cyrodiil, moreover, was originally designed for groups of 8 to 24 players and is built around large-scale battles and objective captures. If you are looking for a game designed for defensive solo play in PVP, ESO is not it. ESO's PVP was designed from the beginning for organized groups and that really hasn't changed that much.

There's a reason I enjoyed my healer so much more in an organized group. Its because I was playing my healer the way the game was designed for.

If you want to continue to play solo, I seriously suggest you practice dueling. With dueling, you'll learn how to heal proactively, burst the enemy, and recognize/counter enemy combos. Just healing yourself is not going to keep you alive unless the goal is to survive long enough for some other player to come along and save you. You've got to have your own CCs and burst damage and be able to keep the pressure on while you fight while never letting your health dip into execute range and avoiding/countering the enemy's burst skills. Its not easy, not remotely. Dueling is probably the best way to learn those skills if you aren't enjoying Cyrodiil.

Jeremy

Biro123 wrote: »

Hmm.. OP has experimented with PvP for a week and thinks he knows better than those who have been playing for years....

Not worth the time trying to explain/help. He obviously already knows it all...

In the meantime, decent players will keep surviving, and keep having drawn-out fights with decent opponents, and continue to burst down those who don't want to learn.

I don't know it all - but I know enough to know you aren't going to be healing yourself through multiple opponents....lol

Jeremy

VaranisArano wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I started having fun in PVP when I joined up with a PVP guild that ran organized raid. They knew what they were doing and so I survived much longer when I played with them, felt like I could contribute more and more effectively, and managed to learn a lot about PVP in the process.

I'm still not all that great in a 1v1 fight because I played a group healer for a long time, but I've really enjoyed the PVP experience - which I never wouldve believed when I started ESO straight out of single-player Skyrim.

If its worth it to you, stick it out, maybe find a good PVP guild and practice. PVP has a steep learning curve. But if you know its not worth the time and effort for you, thats totally fine for you. I tried PVP and eventually learned to like it but I dont expect the same to be true of everyone. So people experience it, learn how to do it, and still dont like it much (same for PVE too.)

Usually in PvP on games I create a defensive or mobile healer who specializes on assisting allies and avoiding death if I'm engaged. That seems impossible on this game because offensive strategies dominate.

That's my issue.

Ive got a group healer that I play with my group and I, well let me be completely honest here, I zerg-surf with when I'm not with my raid. She's a MagDK with a resto staff, so pretty tanky and good at group healing, but not as healing oriented as a templar.

In the early days when I did a lot of zerg-surfing, I got tanky. I mean, Plague Doctor and 40k health because that let me survive better. Healing non-organized players (the zerg) takes a lot of alertness and awareness of how the battle is going. I died a lot while I was learning when to jump off the walls, when we were gonna get overrun anyway, and when we were,winning so I could press forward. Generally, I still died in a 1v1 fight, because PVP healing is more about healing proactively instead of sheer burst.

From that experience, I learned how to move on the battlefield, how to heal and not overextend, and got to the point that I'm now in light armor again, 28k health and doing even better than I was in my newbie Plague Doctor. But when I was new, I really needed that health cushion, in order to live long enough to understand the battle, what tactics worked and what tactics didn't.

If you want to be a defensive or mobile healer, I really recommend looking for a PVP group or guild. I started to learn to heal disorganized players. Healing organized groups is much, much more fun and easier since you are supporting and healing your group and they are helping to defend you. Organized groups always need good healers and IMO its more rewarding than healing the zerg.

This reinforces my complaint. Any skilled offensive player is going to be able to eat someone for breakfast if they attempt to play defensive and keep themselves alive through heals unless they have an organized team to depend on. Because there really is no effective defensive strategy that I have found or seen that involves healing or defense. Both are just too easy to counter by a well-executed offense.

Maybe before they nerfed immovable I might could have came up with something using an ice staff to block with combined with Desert Rose and Syrabane. That was something I was considering. But I really just don't see that working either as they would likely just stun and burst dead..

I'm going to be completely honest here. Cyrodiil is designed for groups of 2 to 24 people. Says so right in the tooltip. Of course PVP is better with an organized team! Same thing in battlegrounds. Its designed for 4v4v4 team play. The more organized, the better.

Cyrodiil, moreover, was originally designed for groups of 8 to 24 players and is built around large-scale battles and objective captures. If you are looking for a game designed for defensive solo play in PVP, ESO is not it. ESO's PVP was designed from the beginning for organized groups and that really hasn't changed that much.

There's a reason I enjoyed my healer so much more in an organized group. Its because I was playing my healer the way the game was designed for.

If you want to continue to play solo, I seriously suggest you practice dueling. With dueling, you'll learn how to heal proactively, burst the enemy, and recognize/counter enemy combos. Just healing yourself is not going to keep you alive unless the goal is to survive long enough for some other player to come along and save you. You've got to have your own CCs and burst damage and be able to keep the pressure on while you fight while never letting your health dip into execute range and avoiding/countering the enemy's burst skills. Its not easy, not remotely. Dueling is probably the best way to learn those skills if you aren't enjoying Cyrodiil.

Dueling or playing solo isn't going to have any effect on what I am talking about.

My complaint in regards to PVP on this game is how defensive tactics simply don't work. They are too easy to counter, and that makes Cyrodil less enjoyable - at least from my perspective.

Biro123

Jeremy wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Hmm.. OP has experimented with PvP for a week and thinks he knows better than those who have been playing for years....

Not worth the time trying to explain/help. He obviously already knows it all...

In the meantime, decent players will keep surviving, and keep having drawn-out fights with decent opponents, and continue to burst down those who don't want to learn.

I don't know it all - but I know enough to know you aren't going to be healing yourself through multiple opponents....lol

And I know enough to know that combining heals, blocking, dodging, debuffs, defensive buffs, cc, mobility and positioning can let you survive multiple opponents. Lol.
Took me much much longer than a week to figure that out though. Lol.

Like I say, you are convinced you are correct with your limited knowledge and refuse to listen to thaw who are much more experienced and regularly do achieve what you say is impossible. Lol.

There are plenty of 1vX videos on you tube showing that what you say is impossible absolutely is not. Lol.

Jeremy

Biro123 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Hmm.. OP has experimented with PvP for a week and thinks he knows better than those who have been playing for years....

Not worth the time trying to explain/help. He obviously already knows it all...

In the meantime, decent players will keep surviving, and keep having drawn-out fights with decent opponents, and continue to burst down those who don't want to learn.

I don't know it all - but I know enough to know you aren't going to be healing yourself through multiple opponents....lol

And I know enough to know that combining heals, blocking, dodging, debuffs, defensive buffs, cc, mobility and positioning can let you survive multiple opponents. Lol.
Took me much much longer than a week to figure that out though. Lol.

Like I say, you are convinced you are correct with your limited knowledge and refuse to listen to thaw who are much more experienced and regularly do achieve what you say is impossible. Lol.

There are plenty of 1vX videos on you tube showing that what you say is impossible absolutely is not. Lol.

I am convinced that if you are jumped by multiple skilled opponents you are going to go splat on this game - and go splat rather quickly. Especially if you are playing a healer.

Yes.

Your claims to the contrary not-with-standing. But if you want to pretend that isn't the case then be my guest - just don't expect me to entertain the nonsense.

And I've been playing PvP off and on since 2014 (if that matters) it's just the last week I have been hitting it hard to see if any defensive strategies actually can work.

Thogard

The thing that makes this game’s PvP so great is that skill is extremely important.

You’re new.
You die really quickly no matter how you build your character or what level you are

That’s a good thing. It means that people who don’t know how to play well are dying regardless of what they wear.

If you like the fact that being good is a huge advantage, then ESO PvP is for you and you should invest the time and dedication it takes to get good at it.

If you want to compete at a high level while being brand new at something, perhaps look into single player games?

Biro123

Jeremy wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Hmm.. OP has experimented with PvP for a week and thinks he knows better than those who have been playing for years....

Not worth the time trying to explain/help. He obviously already knows it all...

In the meantime, decent players will keep surviving, and keep having drawn-out fights with decent opponents, and continue to burst down those who don't want to learn.

I don't know it all - but I know enough to know you aren't going to be healing yourself through multiple opponents....lol

And I know enough to know that combining heals, blocking, dodging, debuffs, defensive buffs, cc, mobility and positioning can let you survive multiple opponents. Lol.
Took me much much longer than a week to figure that out though. Lol.

Like I say, you are convinced you are correct with your limited knowledge and refuse to listen to thaw who are much more experienced and regularly do achieve what you say is impossible. Lol.

There are plenty of 1vX videos on you tube showing that what you say is impossible absolutely is not. Lol.

I am convinced that if you are jumped by multiple skilled opponents you are going to go splat on this game - and go splat rather quickly. Especially if you are playing a healer.

Yes.

Your claims to the contrary not-with-standing. But if you want to pretend that isn't the case then be my guest - just don't expect me to entertain the nonsense.

Are you saying you expect to not go splat when jumped by 4 superior opponents? The game would be kind of stupid if that didn't happen, no?

See now we are getting close to the crux of the matter.

It absolutely is possible to survive vs 4 inferior opponents...

It is not a simply a numbers game, it's a skill game. You just don't want to face that fact. Fell free to carry on not entertaining it.

Jeremy

Biro123 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Hmm.. OP has experimented with PvP for a week and thinks he knows better than those who have been playing for years....

Not worth the time trying to explain/help. He obviously already knows it all...

In the meantime, decent players will keep surviving, and keep having drawn-out fights with decent opponents, and continue to burst down those who don't want to learn.

I don't know it all - but I know enough to know you aren't going to be healing yourself through multiple opponents....lol

And I know enough to know that combining heals, blocking, dodging, debuffs, defensive buffs, cc, mobility and positioning can let you survive multiple opponents. Lol.
Took me much much longer than a week to figure that out though. Lol.

Like I say, you are convinced you are correct with your limited knowledge and refuse to listen to thaw who are much more experienced and regularly do achieve what you say is impossible. Lol.

There are plenty of 1vX videos on you tube showing that what you say is impossible absolutely is not. Lol.

I am convinced that if you are jumped by multiple skilled opponents you are going to go splat on this game - and go splat rather quickly. Especially if you are playing a healer.

Yes.

Your claims to the contrary not-with-standing. But if you want to pretend that isn't the case then be my guest - just don't expect me to entertain the nonsense.

Are you saying you expect to not go splat when jumped by 4 superior opponents? The game would be kind of stupid if that didn't happen, no?

See now we are getting close to the crux of the matter.

It absolutely is possible to survive vs 4 inferior opponents...

It is not a simply a numbers game, it's a skill game. You just don't want to face that fact. Fell free to carry on not entertaining it.

No what I'm saying is you are going to go splat when jumped by four equal opponents.

And I mean splat. You'll be lucky if you last more than a couple of seconds.

Jeremy

Thogard wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

OP , it's pretty clear you don't want advice or help just to keep saying how much PvP sucks . There is no way to be constructive or evolve a conversation forward with a completely biased and unyielding opinion . The point of this thread is just bash PvP . Most call that trolling at this point .

My opinion isn't unyielding.

I"d be happy to entertain a fair argument to the contrary. It's just thus far I haven't seen one.

Watch a dueling tournament

Most of the really defensive sets are banned because the fights don’t end.

And what are these defensive sets they use?

Thogard

Jeremy wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

OP , it's pretty clear you don't want advice or help just to keep saying how much PvP sucks . There is no way to be constructive or evolve a conversation forward with a completely biased and unyielding opinion . The point of this thread is just bash PvP . Most call that trolling at this point .

My opinion isn't unyielding.

I"d be happy to entertain a fair argument to the contrary. It's just thus far I haven't seen one.

Watch a dueling tournament

Most of the really defensive sets are banned because the fights don’t end.

And what are these defensive sets they use?

Banned defensive sets are earthgore, trollking, blessed meridia

Jeremy

Thogard wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

OP , it's pretty clear you don't want advice or help just to keep saying how much PvP sucks . There is no way to be constructive or evolve a conversation forward with a completely biased and unyielding opinion . The point of this thread is just bash PvP . Most call that trolling at this point .

My opinion isn't unyielding.

I"d be happy to entertain a fair argument to the contrary. It's just thus far I haven't seen one.

Watch a dueling tournament

Most of the really defensive sets are banned because the fights don’t end.

And what are these defensive sets they use?

Banned defensive sets are earthgore, trollking, blessed meridia

The blind on block set? I was going to try that one with my block tests coming up - so I'll give that one a try to see how it works.

That one does look like it might have some real possibilities - because as I've said - it seems like block might be the only way to create an effective defense on this game.

I can now say that resistance and healing are futile efforts.

CatchMeTrolling

Jeremy wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

You can absolutely run a healing/ support build and be unkillable against a set amount of players depending on their skill. Mag warden and magplar will get the job done for that, magplar is a bit easier for it though.

Sorry but no you can't.

You must have been fighting some horrible players.

Because all it takes is one skilled offensive player (let alone multiple ones) and he or she will be able to cut through your heals like a hot knife through butter.

Strategies that only work against terrible players do not count.

The average good player isn't xv1ing anyone.

But honestly from your replies you're either trolling, not willing to listen to others (aka narrow minded) and you're using this thread to vent rather than to actually get informed.

I listened and read your post. I just disagree with you - which isn't "trolling".

You're just incorrect. I know from personal experience that you aren't going to heal yourself through multiple opponents attacking you on this game. At least not against players who are worth a damn. And anyone who tries that strategy against skilled players is going to find that out the hard way.

And I did not create this thread with the purpose of being informed or to listen to others - and especially not others who are claiming you can heal through multiple opponents attacking you in PvP on this game, which is very bad advice.

I made this thread to voice my opinion as to this game's very lacking PvP experience.

Your experience isn't the truth.

Either way you can most certainly heal through multiple people and kill them while you're at it. Against good players obviously it changes, but the good player's typically aren't zergers. Even though you can stall if you're on a stamwarden if if they're good.

How long have you actually been pvping, that's the real question?

I've been PvPing off and on since 2014 as I said (since you think that matters). But I've invested the last week into some serious experimentation to see if any defensive strategies actually can succeed. So far that's a no.

I don't know what players you have been fighting to where you were able to successfully heal through multiple opponents attacking you at once - but all i can say is they were awful players and you should not judge PvP on that basis.

The game is still in a defensive (hold block and heal until more allies show up ) meta ,so I don't get why you think turtling isn't viable because it is. If you have been playing just a little you would have seen all the complaints about the tank meta. I mean to the point zos eventually threw out nerfs but they still overperform such as earthgore.

And it also seems that you're under the impression that the average player is just destroying everyone. When realistically the average player needs someone else to help kill an actual good player. Hence why you can heal, dodge, kite and play tag with the average player.

Of course you're going to get smacked if multiple GOOD player's are on you, that's in any pvp game.

technohic

I think it’s pretty good. I can run into a group of people where I can get a bunch of kills outnumbered but then turn around and get my ass handed to me by another player. It tells me there is room for a lot of skill growth. Of course it probably sucks at the very bottom of that range.

Thogard

Jeremy wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

OP , it's pretty clear you don't want advice or help just to keep saying how much PvP sucks . There is no way to be constructive or evolve a conversation forward with a completely biased and unyielding opinion . The point of this thread is just bash PvP . Most call that trolling at this point .

My opinion isn't unyielding.

I"d be happy to entertain a fair argument to the contrary. It's just thus far I haven't seen one.

Watch a dueling tournament

Most of the really defensive sets are banned because the fights don’t end.

And what are these defensive sets they use?

Banned defensive sets are earthgore, trollking, blessed meridia

Oh the blind on block set. I was going to try that one with my block tests coming up - so I'll give that one a try to see how it works.

That one does look like it might have possibility - because as I've said so far - it seems like block might be the only way to create an effective defense on this game.

Strategic blocking and strategic roll dodging are good defenses for newer players. Alternate between those and defensive ults (IE heavy attack when your resto ult is going to regain stamina / Magicka)

More advanced players will focus on kiting / prekiting and LoSing.

Best defense of all is killing your opponent

Jeremy

Thogard wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

OP , it's pretty clear you don't want advice or help just to keep saying how much PvP sucks . There is no way to be constructive or evolve a conversation forward with a completely biased and unyielding opinion . The point of this thread is just bash PvP . Most call that trolling at this point .

My opinion isn't unyielding.

I"d be happy to entertain a fair argument to the contrary. It's just thus far I haven't seen one.

Watch a dueling tournament

Most of the really defensive sets are banned because the fights don’t end.

And what are these defensive sets they use?

Banned defensive sets are earthgore, trollking, blessed meridia

Oh the blind on block set. I was going to try that one with my block tests coming up - so I'll give that one a try to see how it works.

That one does look like it might have possibility - because as I've said so far - it seems like block might be the only way to create an effective defense on this game.

Strategic blocking and strategic roll dodging are good defenses for newer players. Alternate between those and defensive ults (IE heavy attack when your resto ult is going to regain stamina / Magicka)

More advanced players will focus on kiting / prekiting and LoSing.

Best defense of all is killing your opponent

That is essentially the conclusion I have come to as well - which is what I don't like about PvP on this game.

Though as I said - I haven't thoroughly experimented with block builds yet. So there might be something there that can actually work. But thus far - it seems to me the best defense on this game is a good offense.

Jeremy

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

So you're opinionated based off the fact you have zero clue what you're doing and you call attention to that fact and reject any advise given to you.

What do you want?

So far I haven't heard much advice... at least none of any note.

Just some random chest thumping and vague boasts about how awesomely skilled they supposedly are.

Feel free to post your class and build and allow players to critique it for positive change . They will need to know details to be able to help you .

I did not write this thread for others to critique my build. That would be pointless - as I have been experimenting with dozens of different builds. I have no "PvP build" at the moment - because thus far none of them have been suitably effective at defense.

Jeremy

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

You can absolutely run a healing/ support build and be unkillable against a set amount of players depending on their skill. Mag warden and magplar will get the job done for that, magplar is a bit easier for it though.

Sorry but no you can't.

You must have been fighting some horrible players.

Because all it takes is one skilled offensive player (let alone multiple ones) and he or she will be able to cut through your heals like a hot knife through butter.

Strategies that only work against terrible players do not count.

The average good player isn't xv1ing anyone.

But honestly from your replies you're either trolling, not willing to listen to others (aka narrow minded) and you're using this thread to vent rather than to actually get informed.

I listened and read your post. I just disagree with you - which isn't "trolling".

You're just incorrect. I know from personal experience that you aren't going to heal yourself through multiple opponents attacking you on this game. At least not against players who are worth a damn. And anyone who tries that strategy against skilled players is going to find that out the hard way.

And I did not create this thread with the purpose of being informed or to listen to others - and especially not others who are claiming you can heal through multiple opponents attacking you in PvP on this game, which is very bad advice.

I made this thread to voice my opinion as to this game's very lacking PvP experience.

Your experience isn't the truth.

Either way you can most certainly heal through multiple people and kill them while you're at it. Against good players obviously it changes, but the good player's typically aren't zergers. Even though you can stall if you're on a stamwarden if if they're good.

How long have you actually been pvping, that's the real question?

I've been PvPing off and on since 2014 as I said (since you think that matters). But I've invested the last week into some serious experimentation to see if any defensive strategies actually can succeed. So far that's a no.

I don't know what players you have been fighting to where you were able to successfully heal through multiple opponents attacking you at once - but all i can say is they were awful players and you should not judge PvP on that basis.

The game is still in a defensive (hold block and heal until more allies show up ) meta ,so I don't get why you think turtling isn't viable because it is. If you have been playing just a little you would have seen all the complaints about the tank meta. I mean to the point zos eventually threw out nerfs but they still overperform such as earthgore.

And it also seems that you're under the impression that the average player is just destroying everyone. When realistically the average player needs someone else to help kill an actual good player. Hence why you can heal, dodge, kite and play tag with the average player.

Of course you're going to get smacked if multiple GOOD player's are on you, that's in any pvp game.

This post doesn't make any sense as a response - because it was commenting on a post referring to "healing" as an effective way to defend one's self form multiple opponents. It's not.

I was not referring to a build that was focused on blocking.

Thogard

Jeremy wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

OP , it's pretty clear you don't want advice or help just to keep saying how much PvP sucks . There is no way to be constructive or evolve a conversation forward with a completely biased and unyielding opinion . The point of this thread is just bash PvP . Most call that trolling at this point .

My opinion isn't unyielding.

I"d be happy to entertain a fair argument to the contrary. It's just thus far I haven't seen one.

Watch a dueling tournament

Most of the really defensive sets are banned because the fights don’t end.

And what are these defensive sets they use?

Banned defensive sets are earthgore, trollking, blessed meridia

Oh the blind on block set. I was going to try that one with my block tests coming up - so I'll give that one a try to see how it works.

That one does look like it might have possibility - because as I've said so far - it seems like block might be the only way to create an effective defense on this game.

Strategic blocking and strategic roll dodging are good defenses for newer players. Alternate between those and defensive ults (IE heavy attack when your resto ult is going to regain stamina / Magicka)

More advanced players will focus on kiting / prekiting and LoSing.

Best defense of all is killing your opponent

That is essentially the conclusion I have come to as well - which is what I don't like about PvP on this game.

Though as I said - I haven't thoroughly experimented with block builds yet. So there might be something there that can actually work. But thus far - it seems to me the best defense on this game is a good offense.

So why haven’t you tried that?

Building for high offense is much harder than building for high defense, but kudos to you if you can pull it off while new.

TheBonesXXX

Jeremy wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

So you're opinionated based off the fact you have zero clue what you're doing and you call attention to that fact and reject any advise given to you.

What do you want?

So far I haven't heard much advice... at least none of any note.

Just some random chest thumping and vague boasts about how awesomely skilled they supposedly are.

You were using a high Magicka Regen build and mist form and noted your lack of sustain.

I suppose read the tooltips, learn game mechanics; understand the game functions. Because defensive healers are frequent in Cyrodiil, pirate Skeleton, wizards riposte, and transmutation are a common set people are running around with.

Post your build and CP spread, it would be easier to help you.

Rohamad_Ali

Jeremy wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

So you're opinionated based off the fact you have zero clue what you're doing and you call attention to that fact and reject any advise given to you.

What do you want?

So far I haven't heard much advice... at least none of any note.

Just some random chest thumping and vague boasts about how awesomely skilled they supposedly are.

Feel free to post your class and build and allow players to critique it for positive change . They will need to know details to be able to help you .

I did not write this thread for others to critique my build. That would be pointless - as I have been experimenting with dozens of different builds. I have no "PvP build" at the moment - because thus far none of them have been suitably effective at defense.

Bah , I give up . lol

Jeremy

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

So you're opinionated based off the fact you have zero clue what you're doing and you call attention to that fact and reject any advise given to you.

What do you want?

So far I haven't heard much advice... at least none of any note.

Just some random chest thumping and vague boasts about how awesomely skilled they supposedly are.

You were using a high Magicka Regen build and mist form and noted your lack of sustain.

I suppose read the tooltips, learn game mechanics; understand the game functions. Because defensive healers are frequent in Cyrodiil, pirate Skeleton, wizards riposte, and transmutation are a common set people are running around with.

Post your build and CP spread, it would be easier to help you.

That was just one of dozens of builds I tried. But yes, I did attempt a mist form build with very high magicka regen hoping it could successfully escape from a dangerous situation.. As I have already explained to you - the high regen was intended to get magicka back inbetween mist form casts so as to use it quickly again. I'm well aware you do not gain magicka during mist form... so I did not need to read tool tips to understand that.

I have also tried those sets you mentioned - and no - they will not keep a healer alive.

VaranisArano

Jeremy wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

So you're opinionated based off the fact you have zero clue what you're doing and you call attention to that fact and reject any advise given to you.

What do you want?

So far I haven't heard much advice... at least none of any note.

Just some random chest thumping and vague boasts about how awesomely skilled they supposedly are.

You were using a high Magicka Regen build and mist form and noted your lack of sustain.

I suppose read the tooltips, learn game mechanics; understand the game functions. Because defensive healers are frequent in Cyrodiil, pirate Skeleton, wizards riposte, and transmutation are a common set people are running around with.

Post your build and CP spread, it would be easier to help you.

That was just one of dozens of builds I tried.

I have tried those sets you mentioned - and no - they will not keep a healer alive.

Not if you are just trying to heal yourself alone against multiple opponents, no.

My suggestion is to get a group, that way you can heal others and not find yourself in a 1vX with your trying and failing to heal yourself through it. Or you can learn to duel, aka how to properly fight back, because healing yourself through a 1vX with skilled players isn't going to work nor should it.

But if you aren't interested in avoiding 1vX situations or learning how to actually fight in a 1vX, you are going to continue to be frustrated. Because you aren't going to heal yourself through fights against skilled opponents. Bad opponents, sure, but healing yourself alone won't suffice against a skilled player trying to kill you.

Jeremy

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

So you're opinionated based off the fact you have zero clue what you're doing and you call attention to that fact and reject any advise given to you.

What do you want?

So far I haven't heard much advice... at least none of any note.

Just some random chest thumping and vague boasts about how awesomely skilled they supposedly are.

Feel free to post your class and build and allow players to critique it for positive change . They will need to know details to be able to help you .

I did not write this thread for others to critique my build. That would be pointless - as I have been experimenting with dozens of different builds. I have no "PvP build" at the moment - because thus far none of them have been suitably effective at defense.

Bah , I give up . lol

I'll be happy to try out ideas on how to create a defensive build that actually works Rohamad.

So if you have any ideas about that I'll be happy to listen and try them out.

TheBonesXXX

Jeremy wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

So you're opinionated based off the fact you have zero clue what you're doing and you call attention to that fact and reject any advise given to you.

What do you want?

So far I haven't heard much advice... at least none of any note.

Just some random chest thumping and vague boasts about how awesomely skilled they supposedly are.

You were using a high Magicka Regen build and mist form and noted your lack of sustain.

I suppose read the tooltips, learn game mechanics; understand the game functions. Because defensive healers are frequent in Cyrodiil, pirate Skeleton, wizards riposte, and transmutation are a common set people are running around with.

Post your build and CP spread, it would be easier to help you.

That was just one of dozens of builds I tried. But yes, I did attempt a mist form build with very high magicka regen hoping it could successfully escape from a dangerous situation. As I have already explained to you you - the high regen was intended to get magicka back inbetween mist form casts so as to use it quickly again. I'm well aware you do not gain magicka during mist form... so I did not need to read took tips to understand that.

I have also tried those sets you mentioned - and no - they will not keep a healer alive.

They work fine for successful healers, your lack of successful PvP attempts are indicative that you are the problem.

You make it very difficult to aid you when you blame everything else.

Thogard

Jeremy wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

You can absolutely run a healing/ support build and be unkillable against a set amount of players depending on their skill. Mag warden and magplar will get the job done for that, magplar is a bit easier for it though.

Sorry but no you can't.

You must have been fighting some horrible players.

Because all it takes is one skilled offensive player (let alone multiple ones) and he or she will be able to cut through your heals like a hot knife through butter.

Strategies that only work against terrible players do not count.

The average good player isn't xv1ing anyone.

But honestly from your replies you're either trolling, not willing to listen to others (aka narrow minded) and you're using this thread to vent rather than to actually get informed.

I listened and read your post. I just disagree with you - which isn't "trolling".

You're just incorrect. I know from personal experience that you aren't going to heal yourself through multiple opponents attacking you on this game. At least not against players who are worth a damn. And anyone who tries that strategy against skilled players is going to find that out the hard way.

And I did not create this thread with the purpose of being informed or to listen to others - and especially not others who are claiming you can heal through multiple opponents attacking you in PvP on this game, which is very bad advice.

I made this thread to voice my opinion as to this game's very lacking PvP experience.

Your experience isn't the truth.

Either way you can most certainly heal through multiple people and kill them while you're at it. Against good players obviously it changes, but the good player's typically aren't zergers. Even though you can stall if you're on a stamwarden if if they're good.

How long have you actually been pvping, that's the real question?

I've been PvPing off and on since 2014 as I said (since you think that matters). But I've invested the last week into some serious experimentation to see if any defensive strategies actually can succeed. So far that's a no.

I don't know what players you have been fighting to where you were able to successfully heal through multiple opponents attacking you at once - but all i can say is they were awful players and you should not judge PvP on that basis.

The game is still in a defensive (hold block and heal until more allies show up ) meta ,so I don't get why you think turtling isn't viable because it is. If you have been playing just a little you would have seen all the complaints about the tank meta. I mean to the point zos eventually threw out nerfs but they still overperform such as earthgore.

And it also seems that you're under the impression that the average player is just destroying everyone. When realistically the average player needs someone else to help kill an actual good player. Hence why you can heal, dodge, kite and play tag with the average player.

Of course you're going to get smacked if multiple GOOD player's are on you, that's in any pvp game.

This post doesn't make any sense as a response - because it was commenting on a post referring to "healing" as an effective way to defend one's self form multiple opponents. It's not.

I was not referring to a build that was focused on blocking.

The more you post it becomes more evident that you most likely don't know what you're doing, since you don't really have an argument and contradict yourself.

You complained that you can't stay alive against multiple people basically, I said you can (others as well ) then you said you can't unless they're bad. So that implies that you think you should do this against good player's. You have no argument or discussion to be had unless it fits your narrative.

No - what I said in that post was you were not going to heal yourself through multiple opponents attacking you. That just isn't going to happen - at least not against skilled players who do not suck.

I'm going to ignore your attempts to insult me as they aren't relevant to this discussion.

It is totally possible, but it requires a lot of skill and practice. You have to be adept at switching out the various defensive mechanics and timing them precisely to optimize resource management. Example would be blocking / mistform while defiled (alternating them), using resto ult to regain resources, Tap blocking CCs, dodgerolling once every 6s, keeping HoTs up, using burst heals after resto heavies, etc