Compromise, please make Pyandonean/maomer motif a permantly available motif

Aliyavana

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey all,

As with all systems, we read your feedback on Crown Crates and are always looking for more ways to make them a rewarding experience. One of the pieces of feedback on Crown Crates we heard was that the blue-tier items didn’t feel as rewarding as our players would like. For as long as Crown Crates have been active, you have been guaranteed at least one blue-quality card or better in every Crown Crate, so these items are some of the most common Crown Crate items.

To address this feedback, starting with the Psijic Vault Crown Crates, we looked to improve the blue-quality Crown Crate rewards by adding an exclusive Motif – the Pyandonean Motif – to that tier. The goal was to add a bit more excitement to receiving a blue-tier item from a crate. However, we also wanted players to feel like there was more than one way to get this Motif, so we made sure that you will be able to purchase the Motif pages with Crown Gems. That way, if you don’t get it inside a crate, you’re not prevented from acquiring it all together. The Motif pages are also account-bound items not collectibles, which means that you can convert every one you get into Crown Gems if you want. It’s also worth noting that all players have the opportunity to receive free Crown Crates during special events, as well as through the future Daily Rewards system.

Watch for full details regarding the Motif pages and how you can obtain them in our upcoming Psijic Vault Crown Crate article.

Ok so they will be common and it looks like its a done deal no matter what we choose to do... If you guys make this a limited time offer in crown crates and never make it available again in the next crown crate seasons I swear you will lose so many crown store/crate buying customers if this goes down. If you make this crate exclusive this better be available as a chance to get in ALL crown crate seasons... For us to have a chance at it all the time. Its ok to have a motif for a limited time in the crown store for 2k crowns (grim harlequin, frost caster) but if this is only available in the psijiic crown crate season then crown crates will be turning even darker...

If they will be 16 gems per page and you buy them individually then it will come out to 224 gems. If the full book is the same as the other crown crate gems then itd be cheaper at 200 gems. if this goes down then it will be more expensive to buy the motif than say buy grim harlequin and frost caster. Horrible marketing tactics here and I hope it doesn't get darker.

Turelus

Not happy at all about this, it's clear that most in the community are not happy either but as always marketing doesn't care what we think. I hate to be that blunt and cynical but sadly that's how it seems.

If they truly wanted to give us "options" then they would consider actual options like the full book in the crates, full book for direct purchase etc.

Also padding out the blue tier with motif pages isn't making it more rewarding for us, it's padding it out with parts of a whole.

Sadly I do think it will get darker, I honestly expect this to get worse until they finally push past that line and start losing players. ZOS and ESO has learnt nothing from EA and SWTOR.

Recremen

Turelus wrote: »

Not happy at all about this, it's clear that most in the community are not happy either but as always marketing doesn't care what we think. I hate to be that blunt and cynical but sadly that's how it seems.

If they truly wanted to give us "options" then they would consider actual options like the full book in the crates, full book for direct purchase etc.

Also padding out the blue tier with motif pages isn't making it more rewarding for us, it's padding it out with parts of a whole.

Sadly I do think it will get darker, I honestly expect this to get worse until they finally push past that line and start losing players. ZOS and ESO has learnt nothing from EA and SWTOR.

I'm starting to think the only "options" left to us involve coordinated customer resistance.

Yzalirk

All I got from that official statement is that I should be excited to get ripped off even further.

Loralai_907

I have ideas, that I won't post here, as much as I am tempted too. Tomorrow I might regret getting myself into trouble. But I think we may need to be louder about our lack of approval

Lexynide

Aliyavana wrote: »

and I hope it doesn't get darker.

I heard the same thing said about game not going P2W and no viable mechanics getting locked out behind a paywall and yet here we are: Jewelcrafting is behind paywall, ZOS went back on their promise to deliver new content to subscribers and they monetize every single asset possible.

Just when will it be "dark enough" for you to understand that just sheer hope will get us nowhere? When they'll make new ores obtainable only through Crown Store?

Marabornwingrion

Turelus wrote: »

Sadly I do think it will get darker, I honestly expect this to get worse until they finally push past that line and start losing players. ZOS and ESO has learnt nothing from EA and SWTOR.

Agree! But... When they will cross the line?

When they first introduced Crown Crates, many of us were not happy with this, but we adapted.
Shortly after that they added Radiant Apex mounts (!) to crates - no matter how many gems you have, you won't be able to purchase them directly. Again, people were upset.
Now they went even further - they've added new motifs, not only Crown Crate exclusive, but also seperated by 14 different pages (!!).

Every new season of Crown Crates, they do more and more shady tactics.
And I'm really curious, what else they need to push into the crates, to make players look at them and say "Okay, I'm done with this game. I'm not happy about direction of the game, so I'm leaving it".

DoctorESO

Compromise?

https://youtu.be/kYk22NzOMjk?t=50s

TheCyberDruid

"That way, if you don’t get it inside a crate, you’re not prevented from acquiring it all together."

Hurray! I only have to buy more crown crates to get more crown gems! That's soooo exciting and great! Thank you, ZOS!

/s

Marabornwingrion

TheCyberDruid wrote: »

"That way, if you don’t get it inside a crate, you’re not prevented from acquiring it all together."

Hurray! I only have to buy more crown crates to get more crown gems! That's soooo exciting and great! Thank you, ZOS!

/s

You can't even imagine how many players intentionally do that...

Beardimus

Genuinely dont get the outcry at this, from Ginas note in the OP they are increasing the chance of getting pages. Surely that's a good thing, I'm surprised they are listening at all and going that far.

But rather than accepting that the bashing and uproar continues. Over a cosmetic.

I will wholeheartedly join the uproar when things you NEED are in the crates. Whilst its things some MAY want genuinely can't see the problem. Just ignore.

The whole throwing abuse at ZOS and calling them disgusting / evil and how everyone needs to turn against them etc is so meladramatic its unreal.

There are much worse marketing tactics in everyday life. (football sticker packs, these collectable plastic things for.kids, kinder eggs!) Additionaly as with every crate season there will be loads of people running about with these mounts / motifs very rapidly, thus they ate a valid business model and profitable (which is their intention)

I get that some people get shiny object syndrome. And I get outrage at things not feeling fair and everyone wants everything. Of course. And gamers seem to feel more entitled about stuff than in regular life. But honestly I dont see the need for 100 different uproar threads.

I appreciate we all have different views. And I'm sorry for those that are upset. No offence intended with this post, but my view is the opposite. As I don't need the stuff thus dont want it, and don't buy crates.

I appreciate its each to their own etc but just my view.

Recremen

Beardimus wrote: »

Genuinely dont get the outcry at this, from Ginas note in the OP they are increasing the chance of getting pages. Surely that's a good thing, I'm surprised they are listening at all and going that far.

But rather than accepting that the bashing and uproar continues. Over a cosmetic.

I will wholeheartedly join the uproar when things you NEED are in the crates. Whilst its things some MAY want genuinely can't see the problem. Just ignore.

The whole throwing abuse at ZOS and calling them disgusting / evil and how everyone needs to turn against them etc is so meladramatic its unreal.

There are much worse marketing tactics in everyday life. (football sticker packs, these collectable plastic things for.kids, kinder eggs!) Additionaly as with every crate season there will be loads of people running about with these mounts / motifs very rapidly, thus they ate a valid business model and profitable (which is their intention)

I get that some people get shiny object syndrome. And I get outrage at things not feeling fair and everyone wants everything. Of course. And gamers seem to feel more entitled about stuff than in regular life. But honestly I dont see the need for 100 different uproar threads.

I appreciate we all have different views. And I'm sorry for those that are upset. No offence intended with this post, but my view is the opposite. As I don't need the stuff thus dont want it, and don't buy crates.

I appreciate its each to their own etc but just my view.

If cosmetics didn't matter then they wouldn't be basing most of their marketable resources on them. A lot of people are getting sick of the gambling boxes, period, doesn't matter if it's "just cosmetic". We want ZOS to go back to being a normal business and charging a fixed price for their goods, not doing this gamble grab-bag ***.

Ohtimbar

I've defended zos many times when I felt people were overreacting, but it does seem that the limits are being pushed further and further as time goes by. If their business model hinges on milking diehards for every last penny then they should be very careful not to kill those golden geese. ESO isn't the only game in town after all.

Beardimus

@Recremen I hear you.

I'm sure however the way to do that is for them not to sell. They do sell, like hot cakes. Their model works.

Complaining isn't going to make then go away. Legislation might but that's about it.

It's like asking brands not to advertise toys to kids in morning TV or car companies not to have fancy adverts for their unreliable junk.

Sadly the modern world is about commercialism. And people need control to manage it. Not outrage that's wasted.

Whilst they sell (and sell they do) they are going nowhere. I for one am happy, as I only give ZOS $20 a year for a chapter. I'm glad others blow several grand so game stays profitable. That's selfish yes

NewBlacksmurf

Folks stop buying crowns period whether it’s eso plus or not....it’s not about any resistance. They’ve devalued their own currencies

Lake

Ohtimbar wrote: »

I've defended zos many times when I felt people were overreacting, but it does seem that the limits are being pushed further and further as time goes by.

Same here. I used to be in the "ESO's monetization is still better than other MMO's" defense squad like some in this thread

However, their gradual SWTOR-style squeezing has turned me the other direction. They're clearly trying to find "the line", but even EA never mastered that art and paid for it.

temjiu

I feel for you all in this case. I'm very relaxed in accepting monetary systems in games, but ESO does push the envelope at times. Even in SWtOR, most of the crate stuff was sellable. ESO limits this completely, and pushes their stupid gem system as an alternative.

And when you add in the cost of some crown store items (Outfit slots anyone?) and even cash cows like myself are leaning away from the system.

But the only way we can speak is through our purchases. or lack thereof. and it's pretty obvious that there's enough people who buy the pretty shinies that the system will continue on.

themaddaedra

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey all,

As with all systems, we read your feedback on Crown Crates and are always looking for more ways to make them a rewarding experience. One of the pieces of feedback on Crown Crates we heard was that the blue-tier items didn’t feel as rewarding as our players would like. For as long as Crown Crates have been active, you have been guaranteed at least one blue-quality card or better in every Crown Crate, so these items are some of the most common Crown Crate items.

To address this feedback, starting with the Psijic Vault Crown Crates, we looked to improve the blue-quality Crown Crate rewards by adding an exclusive Motif – the Pyandonean Motif – to that tier. The goal was to add a bit more excitement to receiving a blue-tier item from a crate. However, we also wanted players to feel like there was more than one way to get this Motif, so we made sure that you will be able to purchase the Motif pages with Crown Gems. That way, if you don’t get it inside a crate, you’re not prevented from acquiring it all together. The Motif pages are also account-bound items not collectibles, which means that you can convert every one you get into Crown Gems if you want. It’s also worth noting that all players have the opportunity to receive free Crown Crates during special events, as well as through the future Daily Rewards system.

Watch for full details regarding the Motif pages and how you can obtain them in our upcoming Psijic Vault Crown Crate article.

That won't do. I mean saying they are kind of easy to receive and we can also buy them via gems sounds like something but it's not.

There are 14 unique pages for each motif. Now let's say we are really lucky with these Psijic crates. So lucky just amazing, every single box gives us the exact page we need. That means we need to open at least 14 crates. Calculating the most economic option, which is 5000 crowns for 15 crates, that means our best chances to complete this motif is gonna cost us 4,666 crowns.

Now should we buy this? Grim was 2k crowns, Frostcaster was 2k crowns, then you come up with this crate nonsense and talk like making the pages easier to get means we should be happy to pay 4,6k crowns for a motif, at minimum.

I know those crates don't only include these pages, and while spending 4,6k crowns we may also get other items. But what if i simply don't want to buy anything but the freaking motif? It's so low , so low just incredible.

I am kind of obsessed with my main crafter, i collect every single style page and i just love being able to craft any style with any trait, but i will just put a scratch on that dream and leave this Maormer motif where it is. I'm not paying thousands of crowns to obtain one single style.And i urge all the crafters who feel the same to do this.

Edit: I don't want to sound like i'm angry with Jessica tho I appreciate Jessica and Gina lurking around, trying their best to be the bridges between us and developers. I'm kind of tempted with marketing department itself.

Streega

@Aliyavana Please stop, just stop - there is NO COMPROMISE in this matter, there should be no such thing as Crown Crates exclusive motif, PERIOD. No matter if it's pages or whole book, if is't not available in game or Crown Store (I hate to say that, but you know, lesser evil), it doesn't exist. You know the story about boiling a frog? That's what you are doing now, you want to allow ZOS to slowly boil you.

Aliyavana

Streega wrote: »

@Aliyavana Please stop, just stop - there is NO COMPROMISE in this matter, there should be no such thing as Crown Crates exclusive motif, PERIOD. No matter if it's pages or whole book, if is't not available in game or Crown Store (I hate to say that, but you know, lesser evil), it doesn't exist. You know the story about boiling a frog? That's what you are doing now, you want to allow ZOS to slowly boil you.

It's done, this isn't gonna be crown store and will be in crates sadly

Left4Daud

If it goes live like it is now on the pts will you bite the bullet and attempt to complete the motif anyway?

Fischblut

we read your feedback on Crown Crates and are always looking for more ways to make them a rewarding experience.

Hiding the motif behind crown crates = rewarding?..

The only way they could be somewhat rewarding if all items in them (including trash consumables) could be converted into their full gem value (and unique collectibles weren't automatically unlocked for the account so we could turn any unwanted collectibles into gems).

Anastian

Beardimus wrote: »

Genuinely dont get the outcry at this, from Ginas note in the OP they are increasing the chance of getting pages. Surely that's a good thing, I'm surprised they are listening at all and going that far.

But rather than accepting that the bashing and uproar continues. Over a cosmetic.

I will wholeheartedly join the uproar when things you NEED are in the crates. Whilst its things some MAY want genuinely can't see the problem. Just ignore.

The whole throwing abuse at ZOS and calling them disgusting / evil and how everyone needs to turn against them etc is so meladramatic its unreal.

There are much worse marketing tactics in everyday life. (football sticker packs, these collectable plastic things for.kids, kinder eggs!) Additionaly as with every crate season there will be loads of people running about with these mounts / motifs very rapidly, thus they ate a valid business model and profitable (which is their intention)

I get that some people get shiny object syndrome. And I get outrage at things not feeling fair and everyone wants everything. Of course. And gamers seem to feel more entitled about stuff than in regular life. But honestly I dont see the need for 100 different uproar threads.

I appreciate we all have different views. And I'm sorry for those that are upset. No offence intended with this post, but my view is the opposite. As I don't need the stuff thus dont want it, and don't buy crates.

I appreciate its each to their own etc but just my view.

It's not a matter of uproaring for the sake of uproaring: in most balanced games, you can earn 90-95% of the game cosmetic items and stuff through playing. Some items are exclusive and must be purchased, but it's the exception rather than the rule.
Here, only basic horses can be purchased for money. Most personalities are shop-tied, and the obtainable customes are by far worse than the ones in the shop.

It's perfectly understandable as the game wants to push you to subscribe to obtain side-rewards like cosmetics.

The issue is that you can't directly purchase these favourite items because they are now within crates (and you need a huge amount of crates to obtain what you want / enough gems for it, as proven in other threads). So not only these cosmetic items aren't attainable ingame, they are also difficult to obtain through the shop because they are either a limited time offer or within crates.

"Small" customers like myself (the ones who aren't willing to spend tons of money in a game for cosmetics only) are thus held outside of this equation: they aren't pushed to buy crowns and a subscription to obtain the Crown Store items as they know they'd have to spend way too much for what they want. If, however, we had accessibility to these items, we'd go for direct purchases!

The thing is that nobody, NOBODY here is asking for the developers to gift us crown crates, nor to take away the cash shop and put everything ingame. We're simply asking for a more balanced approach, where if we can't get stuff ingame, at least we can find it in the shop whenever we want.

AlienSlof

Much as I like motifs and variety, I say only this:

ZOS can take their gamble crates and shove them up where the sun never shines. I'll never buy them.

Teridaxus

Friendly reminder that everyone says it's just cosmetics keep enabling zos to push further and further with time.
They might have joked with p2l brooms last year but how will the crownstore look like in 2-3 years?

Doctordarkspawn

I was with them up until the point I heard 'crown crates'

I REFUSE TO GAMBLE FOR WHAT I COULD BUY.

zaria

Another issue with this is that it looks like all the hairstyles and costumes will go up into the 40 gem level.
That is the main loss for me, I will probably buy the few pages I want like chest and sell the rest for gems.

The_Protagonist

Really have to hand it to business analysts, they saw what is bought most from the crown store and what is most sought after on the guild markets in game, further what stuff do people use their crown gems for and found that it was motifs.

So what did they do? Put pieces of a new motif in crown crates, in our our eyes sick and low, in their eyes when they check their monthly/quarterly/yearly income, genius, I am starting to see a pattern here and could hazard a guess that Necromancer/Spell Crafting/Whatever will always be behind a paywall in chapters and later piece by piece in crown store at obscene prices.

Us veterans will eventually leave while the casuals will come and go for a time, till the men dark suits think that it's time to move to new waters for milking a new breed of cattle. The name Elder Scrolls will never be the same again.

A piece of art that is dear to my heart (and many others) will finally be destroyed by the greed of a few. Shame, that this Will Happen, without a doubt, I can't say when, but it sure will in due time. Shame!


Edit: typo

asuitandtyb14_ESO

The only language they speak is money. There's no point in begging for changes. If you don't like these business practices, then no matter how much you want something, you cannot buy it. You have to hit them where it hurts; in the money bags.

Turelus

asuitandtyb14_ESO wrote: »

The only language they speak is money. There's no point in begging for changes. If you don't like these business practices, then no matter how much you want something, you cannot buy it. You have to hit them where it hurts; in the money bags.

Sadly this won't happen because whilst many of us are on board with such an idea not everyone is engaged nor realises how bad this is for the game.

There are also those who actively fight to defend the system.

I think the best case scenario we could ever ask for would be a YouTuber or news site picking up the story and a bit of bad press, but I don't think many care enough about the marketing of an MMO.

Nemesis7884

My god not everything needs to be available for everyone all the time...what about some visual diversity