The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Maintenance for the week of April 22:
• [COMPLETE] PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – April 22, 4:00AM EDT (08:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – April 24, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – April 24, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)

How much have you spent?

Glockcoma725
Glockcoma725
✭✭✭
After some curious figuring last night I have realized I've spent about $350 on ESO.

About $100 of that were copies of the game I've gifted friends
Another $100 on different crates throughout different seasons (Dwarven, Reapers, Flame and Stormcaller)
And about $150 on DLC's/Account Upgrades (Summerset, Morrowind, Guilds and Glory, the Dungeon Packs, Imperial Edition and the Merchant Assistant)

At first I was like wow that's alot. But once I broke it down it down to individual charges, $250 (just on myself) on a game I love to death and has given me around 1400 hours of fun over a year, that's not a bad figure at all. It had me curious about what the average long-term player spent on the game. I'm aware theres a sort of stigma on the forums about people spending any money at all on the game, but i say bullocks to that. ZOS has given us a fantastic game, and if you don't agree with that I'm not even sure why you're lurking these forums. We should support them any way we can (if in your individual situation you can financially, that is.)

The most recent similar poll was from a couple years ago so I didn't see the harm in a new one with latest expansion data.
Edited by Glockcoma725 on April 19, 2018 1:21PM
PC-NA CP570 @Glockcoma725
Maximus Dezimus Meridius Tank DragonKight
Ri'Skarr DD Nightblade
Myrddin Emrys DD Sorceror
Smokes-All-Herbs Healer Templar
Azog the Defiler DD Warden

How much have you spent? 334 votes

$10-$50
3%
S_RavenlockIstoppucksBeardimusrollerx45PwooMotherballThe_TarantianhuschdeguddzjeSergykidSaphaylaSiannahh 11 votes
$50-$100
7%
shakti82eb17_ESODrezzdinSting864WaffennachtMattT1988JolipinatorAerempsxflohRunefangMadLarkinShezzarrineAnastianKiralyn2000kivaannAberosMighTyxAragorn79ktdotexeCelestialSlayerItacira 25 votes
$100-$200
12%
ReignskreamExCalzThePaulrus94AnnalyseHulkHogaDanteYodaSkillzMFGFivefivesixTygerfireFerrumnCutemRatzkifalOrjixCarcharodontosaurusAvran_Syltcrjs1RunscheiRexy18RaulhnajeraBbsample197oXI_Viper_IXo 42 votes
$200-$300
8%
ThumbtackJakemattc9306b14a_ESOjarydfEvilKiwiDelpiMilwaukeeScottTyharcarljoklAsardesplutosshadowJacen_VeronPixel_ZealotSqueaky_CleanHighlor3adeptusminormikemaconRaraakuWilliscoolNegativeVibesAshyachu 27 votes
$300-$400
8%
geofhob14_ESOAllPlayAndNoWorkIdinuseNeroBadmaroiteMcImeekeyceeViolynneTwistedThoughtzCasulWrecking_Blow_SpamSydneyGreygetemshaunaMythrialDrowJierdanitFakeFoxWarbow7Electrone_MagnusHoolieluluCyborgPlatypus 30 votes
$400-$500
8%
huntgod_ESOaubrey.baconb16_ESOrosendoichinoveb17_ESOStreegaShanjijriHvzedaHearts_WakemoleculeSpud_LoverSosRuvaakdelclay23SGT_Wolfe101stBomblePantsVoxicityMic1007JhalinAnviOfVaiRohamad_AliAthymhormiaYamiKuruku 27 votes
$500-Above
51%
Moloch1514PinesySlurgGalenWillardashenehb14_ESONewBlacksmurfdaryl.rasmusenb14_ESOArobainAnimus-ESOjluchauEsha76SigtricDarcyMardinMarginisHanokihsIrishRonDDominoidwenchmore420b14_ESOYuls 172 votes
  • AnviOfVai
    AnviOfVai
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    $400-$500
    lol I am ashamed..

    EDIT: wait this is dollars! I can't be going with dollars ehem..

    £400-500 pounds.
    Edited by AnviOfVai on April 19, 2018 1:24PM
    "I appear at my lord's behest, or perhaps I was always here, and you merely lacked the ability to see me."

    PS4 - EU

    AD - Pet Sorcerer - Damage Dealer - 160
    DC - Warden - Werewolf - in - progress - 160
    DC - Templar - Tank - 160
    DC - Sorcerer - Damage Dealer - in - progress
    EP - Dragon Knight -Fire Tank - 160
    EP - Nightblade - Damage Dealer - 160

  • Violynne
    Violynne
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    $300-$400
    Guestimating about $380 and still going with a sub.

  • TheNuminous1
    TheNuminous1
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    $500-Above
    way more then a couple thousand over the years.
  • Anastian
    Anastian
    ✭✭✭
    $50-$100
    I think I barely scratched the 50€ mark (EU player here). Got the game through a sale with the gold edition, fell in love but couldn't get myself to pay for a sub. Paid morrowind half of the price a year later, bought some discounted crowns and now got summerset.
    I'm kind of a cheapo :D But it's because I prefer to earn ingame my stuff than to pay for cosmetics
  • Marabornwingrion
    Marabornwingrion
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    Honestly, I don't know.

    But I'm too afraid to check. I don't wanna be angry of myself.
  • ssorgatem
    ssorgatem
    ✭✭✭✭
    $100-$200
    2 copies of the games + morrowind (24€), + 2 summerset collector preorders (one digital, one physical, ~150€) + some crowns on a crown sale

    That is without counting ESO+...

    It may actually go slightly over $200. I don't know how much worth is the US$ now.
  • Glockcoma725
    Glockcoma725
    ✭✭✭
    $300-$400
    In my haste I neglected to include my EU friends and beyond by making this in Dollars, and for that I apologize!
    PC-NA CP570 @Glockcoma725
    Maximus Dezimus Meridius Tank DragonKight
    Ri'Skarr DD Nightblade
    Myrddin Emrys DD Sorceror
    Smokes-All-Herbs Healer Templar
    Azog the Defiler DD Warden
  • Slurg
    Slurg
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    $500-Above
    Can I count the new PC I bought when I realized during beta testing my old one was suboptimal?

    It does add up over the years. Especially after buying crowns for DLCs and dozens of mounts and pets and costumes for myself and the gold edition for my husband and preorders for both of us for Morrowind and Summerset.

    But still it’s less than some hobbies.
    Happy All the Holidays To You and Yours!
    Remembering better days of less RNG in all the things.
  • Asardes
    Asardes
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    $200-$300
    Playing for 2.5 years every day, bought the game discounted, bought 3 x 5.5K crown packs discounted before I subscribed, bought Morrowind and Summerset, and I've been subscribing for about 8 months. Overall it's rather cheap entertainment for the time spent in game and it has virtually negligible part of my earnings over the same period.
    Beta tester since February 2014, played ESO-TU October 2015 - August 2022, currently on an extended break
    vMA (The Flawless Conqueror) | vVH (Spirit Slayer & of the Undying Song) | vDSA | vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vMoL | vAS+1 | Emperor

    PC-EU CP 3000+
    41,000+ Achievement Points before High Isle
    Member of:
    Pact Veteran Trade: Exemplary
    Traders of the Covenant: God of Sales
    Tamriels Emporium: God of Sales
    Valinor Overflow: Trader
    The Traveling Merchant: Silver


    Characters:
    Asardes | 50 Nord Dragonknight | EP AR 50 | Master Crafter: all traits & recipes, all styles released before High Isle
    Alxaril Nelcarion | 50 High Elf Sorcerer | AD AR 20 |
    Dro'Bear Three-paws | 50 Khajiit Nightblade | AD AR 20 |
    Veronique Nicole | 50 Breton Templar | DC AR 20 |
    Sabina Flavia Cosades | 50 Imperial Warden | EP AR 20 |
    Ervesa Neloren | 50 Dark Elf Dragonknight | EP AR 20 |
    Fendar Khodwin | 50 Redguard Sorcerer | DC AR 20 |
    Surilanwe of Lillandril | 50 High Elf Nightblade | AD AR 20 |
    Joleen the Swift | 50 Redguard Templar | DC AR 20 |
    Draynor Telvanni | 50 Dark Elf Warden | EP AR 20 |
    Claudius Tharn | 50 Necromancer | DC AR 20 |
    Nazura-la the Bonedancer | 50 Necromancer | AD AR 20 |

    Tharkul gro-Shug | 50 Orc Dragonknight | DC AR 4 |
    Ushruka gra-Lhurgash | 50 Orc Sorcerer | AD AR 4 |
    Cienwen ferch Llywelyn | 50 Breton Nightblade | DC AR 4 |
    Plays-with-Sunray | 50 Argonian Templar | EP AR 4 |
    Milariel | 50 Wood Elf Warden | AD AR 4 |
    Scheei-Jul | 50 Necromancer | EP AR 4 |

    PC-NA CP 1800+
    30,000+ Achievement Points before High Isle
    Member of:
    Savage Blade: Majestic Machette


    Characters:
    Asardes the Exile | 50 Nord Dragonknight | EP AR 30 |
  • Anotherone773
    Anotherone773
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    $300-$400
    Just a guess, i dont really keep track. I own every expansion including summerset and i have a sub and i buy crates every once in a while.
  • pmn100b16_ESO
    pmn100b16_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I pre-ordered back at release and subbed up until B2P (not one month since). Bought a small amount of crowns at one point during a sale a couple of years back and recently bought Morrowind/Summerset for £20 GBP. Bought nothing other than Thieves Guild and Orsinium from the crown store.

    Don't know what that equates too but less than most I suspect, and probably still too much.
  • DieAlteHexe
    DieAlteHexe
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Haven't kept track. Surely in the hundreds what with the subscription and my forays into the Crown Store.

    Worth every penny too.

    Dirty, filthy casual aka Nancy, the Wallet Warrior Carebear Potato Whale Snowflake
  • The_Protagonist
    The_Protagonist
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    $500-Above
    I've been playing since Feb 2016 and have bought all DLCs and a regular subscriber from the time Craft Bag came out, I've bought pre-ordered collector digital upgrades for both chapters and have huge bunch of crowns on every sale, averaging between 11,000 to 42,000 crowns.

    Warning Incoming Rant
    Am I addicted? Yes I am. Do I like the game? Yes I do. But the addiction seems to be going down every time I see some new monetization scheme that hurts the image I originally had about ZOS. It won't be long before things become unbearable and the big business men think that they need to move to new waters for milking new cattle.

    What I want to say here is that we play this game because of the appreciation of the creativity of the original developers, when I spent for the first expansion, I believed that I was supporting the developers, it felt like I was supporting a father/mom to put their children in good schools.

    But the crown crates, and now with the motifs and other forms of monetization that are currently in PTS have disappointed me, it feels like I am supporting a filthy rich father/mom buy a sports car for their spoiled brat.

    I have seriously started considering toning down my expenditure and work on what I just have at the moment, because the more I give them, the more they will ask. I feel very irresponsible about myself, because in my opinion it's because of me and others like me like ZOS does this.
  • Kuramas9tails
    Kuramas9tails
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    $500-Above
    :|
      Your friendly neighborhood crazy cat lady of ESO
      New PSN name: SundariTheLast. Proud seller in RedEye Empire, PURPLE GANG and Backalley Trading.
      AD High Elf Mageblade DPS (General)(Former Empress) -- Stormproof/VMOL, VHOF, VDSA completion
      AD Khajiit Mageblade DPS -- Flawless Conquerer
      FOR THE QUEEN!
      PS4/NA
    • Esha76
      Esha76
      ✭✭✭✭✭
      $500-Above
      Pre-ordered Imperial & Any Race-Alliance edition during the game's beta.
      Pre-ordered digital of Morrowind - one with the crates, mount, pet, etc.
      Pre-ordered digital of Summerset - One with the crate, pets, mount, costume, etc...
      Subbed the nearly the entire time since launch. Short breaks here and there.
      Bought Crowns when on sale once or twice.

      Easily cleared $500 with all that since launch.
      "There is no moisture in your angry stares." - Laughs-at-All
      "I don't know why I bother guarding you horrible people." - Orama Sadas
      "Scales here is about to have a really bad day..." - Valeric
      "Just tell me what you're doing here before I turn your heart into a tomato..." - Sereyne
      "Break those rocks! Dig those ditches! Why??? Because I want you to!!!" - Ifriz the Unraveller
      "There are worse masters than I. Far worse." - Molag Bal
      "I humiliated the Daedra in Mehrunes Spite." - You, when turning in a specific Undaunted Daily.
      "I'm not finding you very pleasant!" - Adla the Brewer
      "Old Ri'hirr likes his birds slow and stupid!" - Old Ri'hirr
      "When things get dirty... Oh, I get so flustered." - Meredil the Archivist
      "Too many Argonians about these days..." - Davon's Watch Guard (though I think this one has been removed from game)
    • Motherball
      Motherball
      ✭✭✭✭
      $10-$50
      Base game on sale plus a few months sub.
    • Kodrac
      Kodrac
      ✭✭✭✭✭
      ✭✭
      $500-Above
      More than I'd like to admit. I felt pretty ripped off last year with my 6 month sub renewing at the same time as I preordered Morrowind just to have the rug pulled out from under me with all the nerfs. Prior to that I had bought a bunch of crowns when they had a 50% off sale. Leaves a bad taste in my mouth. And here we are again going down the same road with another expansion pre-order and nerfs. I'm suddenly reminded why I quit last time. I'm not so eager to give them any money this time around. Fool me once...
    • greylox
      greylox
      ✭✭✭✭✭
      $500-Above
      Prob over £1000 but no regrets.
      PC EU

      House of the Black Lotus
      *{Smokes-in-the-Shade }* (Mag pet Sorc Argonian, prolific thief, willing participant of the dark arts, gardener of exotic...herbs)
      {Lugdum The Mechanist} (Hybrid Orc Templar, collector of ancient Ayleid smoking pipes)
      {Rantoul} (Dark Elf Magknight, likes an ale between boss fights, has been known to offer daedric princes out in a fist fight)
      {Red, The Wanderer} (Bosmer stam sorc and hunter extraordinaire)
      {Shoots-For-Stars} (Argonian Mag pet Sorc Ice mage Healer)
      *{Jinny the spark }* (Sassy Imperial Stamplar)
      {Crezzi the Drifter} (Magblade khajiit burglar, available for questionable operations)
      {Grif the Despised} (StamKnight Tank Nord, Eastmarch Master Drinker and spinner of tall yarns)
      {Geraldine Stone-Heart} (High Elf MagSorc Ice Tank, Mystic, practitioner of the ancient arts)
      *{Anawinn}* (Stam pet Ward Redguard, Mother to a bear and an unruly Hunger,Librarian, field medic and natures fist)

      {*}Mains
      { CP 900+ }

      Caretaker of Battle Island (Grand Topal), the holiday destination for the discerning warrior
      Residing in Stay-Moist Mansion-Shadowfen - The Smoking Den (as of 6th feb 2017)

    • Kagukan
      Kagukan
      ✭✭✭✭✭
      $100-$200
      Around $200. I have been playing for around 8 months now so feel it is a good deal.
    • AzraelKrieg
      AzraelKrieg
      ✭✭✭✭✭
      ✭✭✭✭
      $500-Above
      Couple of friends and I did this a few weeks ago. It was kind of surprising but not really since we've all been here since launch.
      Gold Dragons Guildmaster PC-NACR2000+
      Kalthar Wolf-Brother – EP Templar - 50 Maeli Valen - EP NB - 50Naps-During-Trials – EP Templar - 50Rulnakh - EP Sorc - 50Azrael Krieg - EP NB – 50Uvithasa Telvanni – EP DK – 50More-Tail - EP Warden - 50Narile Galen - EP Sorc - 50Bone Soldier - EP Necro - 50Naps-During-Trails - EP Necro - 50
    • ZiRM
      ZiRM
      ✭✭✭✭✭
      $500-Above
      WAY TOO MUCH!!! :p I'm about to spend alot more with the upcoming content.
      Seriously it's cheap entertainment for me.
      Want to become Vampire? 5k @ZiRM in game.
      ESO Server Status. ( ^_^)o自自o(^_^ ) SkåL!!!!!
    • Ley
      Ley
      ✭✭✭✭✭
      $500-Above
      $510 mostly monthly sub, the rest is buying base game, expansions, and one time I bought crowns on sale.
      Edited by Ley on April 19, 2018 2:58PM
      Leylith - MagSorc | Leyloth - StamPlar | Leynerd - MagPlar | Leylit - StamBlade | Ley Eviticus - StamDK | Leydor - MagDen | Leylum - StamSorc | Leylux - MagBlade
    • magictucktuck
      magictucktuck
      ✭✭✭✭✭
      $500-Above
      Ive easily spent a few grand
      PC-NA

      Necromancer

      Flawless Conqueror

      https://www.magictucktuck.com for my builds and guides!
    • Ermiq
      Ermiq
      ✭✭✭✭✭
      Have no idea.
      Standard edition + Guilds&Glory + ~10 crates + Morrowind + Banker assistant + + Any Race/Alliance + Gold edition upgrade + ~50 crates. No sub.
      All these was bought with Russian rubles, so I don't know how much it is in dollars/euros.
      Edited by Ermiq on April 19, 2018 2:53PM
      One of the two of us definitely has gone mad. It only remains to define whether this one is the whole world or just me.

      PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

      Sick&tired of being kicked off from your house when you complete a dungeon? ComingBackHome addon is what you need!
      Me is russian little bad in english :b
    • Kiralyn2000
      Kiralyn2000
      ✭✭✭✭✭
      ✭✭✭✭✭
      $50-$100
      Hmm.

      Base game on sale, 10-20; couple months ESO+ $30; 3k crown pack, on sale. $20?

      edit: duh! Plus basic Summerset pre-order. :D
      Edited by Kiralyn2000 on April 19, 2018 2:52PM
    • craftycarper73
      craftycarper73
      ✭✭✭✭✭
      £9.99 a month for 30 months,(sub) i refuse to buy crown crates or other stuff that should drop in the game anyway.

      £40 on orignal game
      £30 on morrowind digital upgrade
      £20 on summerset digital upgrade (probably) i say probably because im undecided on how much more time i can spend playing due to other commitments, and also i have the carp angling bug back aswell, which will take a lot of spare time up.
      Edited by craftycarper73 on April 19, 2018 2:58PM
      Born, Bred & Made in Manchester UK, RIP 22 Angels. 22/05/2017

      PC-EU

      The Place by Tony Walsh Please Read
      This is the place in the North West of England

      It’s ace, it’s the best and the songs that we sing

      From the stands, from our bands set the whole planet shaking

      Our inventions are legends! There’s nowt we can’t make and



      So we make brilliant music. We make brilliant bands

      We make goals that make souls leap from seats in the stands

      And we make things from steel and we make things from cotton

      And we make people laugh, take the mick summat rotten



      And we make you at home and we make you feel welcome

      And we make summat happen, we can’t seem to help it

      And if you’re looking for history then yes, we’ve a wealth

      But the Manchester way is to make it yourself



      And make us a record, a new number one

      And make us a brew while you’re up, love. Go on!

      And make us feel proud that you’re winning the league

      And make us sing louder and make us believe it



      that this is the place that has helped shape the world

      And that this the place where a Manchester girl

      Name of Emmeline Pankhurst from the streets of Moss Side

      Led a Suffragette City with sisterhood pride



      And this is the place with appliance of science

      We’re on it, atomic, we strut with defiance

      In the face of a challenge we always stand tall

      Mancunians in union delivered it all



      Such as housing and libraries, and health, education

      And unions and co-ops, the first railway station

      So we’re sorry! Bear with us! We invented commuters!

      But we hope you forgive us – we invented computers!



      And this is the place Henry Royce strolled with Rolls

      And we’ve rocked and we’ve rolled with our own Northern Soul

      And so this is the place to do business, then dance

      Where go-getters and goal setters know they’ve a chance



      And this is the place where we first played as kids

      And me Mam lived and died here, she loved it she did

      And this is the place where our folks came to work

      Where they struggled in puddles, they hurt in the dirt



      And they built us a city. They built us these towns

      And they coughed on the cobbles to the deafening sound

      Of the steaming machines and the screaming of slaves

      They were scheming for greatness, they dreamed to their graves



      And they left us a spirit, they left us a vibe

      The Mancunian Way to survive and to thrive

      And to work and to build, to connect and create and

      Greater Manchester’s greatness is keeping it great



      And so this is the place now we’ve kids of our own

      Some are born here, some drawn here but we all call it home

      And they’ve covered the cobbles, but they’ll never defeat

      All the dreamers and schemers who still teem through these streets



      Because this is a place that has been through some hard times

      Oppressions, recessions, depressions and dark times

      But we keep fighting back with Greater Manchester spirit

      Northern grit, northern wit in Greater Manchester’s lyrics



      And there’s hard times again in these streets of our city

      But we won’t take defeat and we don’t want your pity

      Because this a place where we stand strong together

      With a smile on our face, Mancunians Forever



      And we’ve got this* as the place where a team with a dream (*Forever Manchester)

      Can get funding and something to help with their scheme

      Because this is the place that understands your grand plans

      We don’t do No Can Do, we just stress Yes We Can!



      Forever Manchester’s a charity for people round ‘ere

      You can fundraise, donate. You can be a volunteer

      You can live local, give local. We can honestly say

      We do charity differently, that Mancunian Way



      And we fund local kids, and we fund local teams

      We support local dreamers to work for their dreams

      We support local groups and the great work they do

      So can you …help us help… local people like you?



      Because this is the place in our hearts, in our homes

      Because this is the place that’s a part of our bones

      ‘Cos Greater Manchester gives us such strength from the fact

      That this is the place. We should give something back.

      Always remember. Never forget. Forever Manchester.
    • Istoppucks
      Istoppucks
      ✭✭✭✭
      $10-$50
      My friends have $100,000 classic cars Thats their hobby. Why do people get so worked up on how much others spend on a video game, its their hobby.

      This is the only hobby i know where you get bullied, demonized and ridiculed for spending your money your way.
      Edited by Istoppucks on April 19, 2018 2:56PM
    • raaphor
      raaphor
      ✭✭✭
      $500-Above
      just over €500,-

      - base game standard edition
      - Morrowind digital upgrade
      - Summerset digital upgrade
      - almost 3 years ESO plus (I always take the 180 days offer)


      EU/PC - 9 max level characters (DC)
      NA/PC - 2 characters (AD)
    • Aelakhaii_De_Mythos
      Aelakhaii_De_Mythos
      ✭✭✭✭
      around 1k euro
    • tmbrinks
      tmbrinks
      ✭✭✭✭✭
      ✭✭✭✭✭
      $500-Above
      I'm at about $900. Been playing since launch, ESO + from when it was introduced. Subbed the whole time it was subscription based. Bought all the expansions, bought crowns once to unlock the banker when I became serious about doing crafting writs. Have about 250 days worth of playtime in the game. comes out to like $4 a day of actual gameplay days spent, actual cost of less than a $1 a day to play a game for between 2-6 hours a day. VERY worth the cost.
      Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra Destroyer
      The Unchained - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger
      61,215 achievement points
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