So ZOS just sent me this survey ...

SGT_Wolfe101st

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Taking a page from Rich's book and just doing this...

/lurk

I want to take this a bit further. Direct purchase is fine for some. I would honestly prefer, for the most part, to be able to get more things via gameplay. The Dungeon Boss costume items would have been an awesome drop from their respective dungeon boss, make it Vet HM only, make it a chance (not BA motif chance, but say 15-20% on a piece). People have been asking since housing launch for "construction" items, stairs, walls, door and archways, the fact that they are available via the crown store is just unfair. The amount of things that are being released are great and they look amazing and add an opportunity to really have unique look and feel for our homes and our characters, but unless you are willing and/or able to purchase crowns or crates then tough luck. Lastly, the idea to put individual motif pages in crown crates is shameful. I love this game, but more and more it seems the only thing that really matters is the amount and frequency I am willing to spend more money. I buy the chapters, I pay for ESO+, when is enough, enough?

Morgha_Kul

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Taking a page from Rich's book and just doing this...

/lurk

I'm very pleased to see you here.
I've said in the past that one of the most frustrating things (on any game forum) is the sense that your complaints are never heard... that a simple, "We're listening" would go a long way.

Well, that you're listening (lurking) is going a long way with me. It's greatly appreciated that you would let us know.

Morgha_Kul

xbobx wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Taking a page from Rich's book and just doing this...

/lurk

hey Gina, stop lurking and start contributing. Being that is your job.

I honestly don't mind if she doesn't actually say anything else. That she's paying attention to us is sufficient for me.

xbobx

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

xbobx wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Taking a page from Rich's book and just doing this...

/lurk

hey Gina, stop lurking and start contributing. Being that is your job.

I honestly don't mind if she doesn't actually say anything else. That she's paying attention to us is sufficient for me.

take a look at her post history.

there is a lot of issues people are discussing and she has managed to ignore them all other than a problem on pts.

DuskMarine

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Taking a page from Rich's book and just doing this...

/lurk

gina just keep up the good work on the crown store i for one actually like whats on it. the mounts and skins along with multiple other hats and costumes really make it worth the money ive spent on the game.

MornaBaine

xbobx wrote: »

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

xbobx wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Taking a page from Rich's book and just doing this...

/lurk

hey Gina, stop lurking and start contributing. Being that is your job.

I honestly don't mind if she doesn't actually say anything else. That she's paying attention to us is sufficient for me.

take a look at her post history.

there is a lot of issues people are discussing and she has managed to ignore them all other than a problem on pts.

Well keep in mind that she's only allowed to say/respond to so much. She may indeed be reporting her findings to the powers that be but frankly we'll never know because there's very little she's allowed to impart to us. Which sucks, to be sure... but that's not her fault.

xbobx

MornaBaine wrote: »

xbobx wrote: »

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

xbobx wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Taking a page from Rich's book and just doing this...

/lurk

hey Gina, stop lurking and start contributing. Being that is your job.

I honestly don't mind if she doesn't actually say anything else. That she's paying attention to us is sufficient for me.

take a look at her post history.

there is a lot of issues people are discussing and she has managed to ignore them all other than a problem on pts.

Well keep in mind that she's only allowed to say/respond to so much. She may indeed be reporting her findings to the powers that be but frankly we'll never know because there's very little she's allowed to impart to us. Which sucks, to be sure... but that's not her fault.

either way, its an issue. Shes the community manager, and being handcuffed from what she can say says alot about the company

xbobx

DuskMarine wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Taking a page from Rich's book and just doing this...

/lurk

gina just keep up the good work on the crown store i for one actually like whats on it. the mounts and skins along with multiple other hats and costumes really make it worth the money ive spent on the game.

you are everything that is wrong in gaming and why gaming is going down the toilet

Tholian1

The main thing that concerned me with the survey were the choice of responses concerning the crown store items. Mainly one saying whether it was important or not for the items to be rare. That means more RNG and higher prices so only a few get to enjoy the nice content being sold. Overpriced mediocre junk for the rest.

jhnartb14_ESO

I left positive feedback. Players often seem to want the game more than what it is: a game. I feel I am in the majority, in that I play the game for fun and am not trying to be the best at anything, just quest, 4 man, and beta test.

anadandy

I have to agree with those who don't mind the Crown Store, but don't like the practice of locking new content to crates only. Small list of things I would have direct purchased with crowns.

White River Braids
Mage's Guild Cat
All the Hircine furnishings - this one gutted me, especially when the next month the Azura stuff went on sale direct.

I wanted them, especially the last but not so much that I was going to waste crowns/money gambling for them. I understand the need for revenue, but the above were lost sales in my opinion. I know I'm just one person.

BuddyAces

When crates we're announced back then, I was one of a few people who flooded every thread with how horrible they are and how the game was going to suffer. When they were released I was pleasantly surprised. I buy 2-4 of those big crate packs during each themed season. Over time though the game is starting to suffer (like we yelled so much about). Making stuff have an almost non existent drop rate so you are funneled to the crown store is a crappy thing to do to folks. Like all things it's just going to get worse. In game drops and crown store only should be separate items completely.

Selling page only motifs from crates....come on, we all know what's going on here. This shows us what's in store (figuratively and literally) for the future.

The boss weapon packs. A great opportunity to get folks to run old arsed content again, revitilize(so) it once more. An obvious no brainier, should have just been added to the game.

Your flash sales are utterly stupid. I have never ever purchased one of these because it was a limited time only purchase. I buy it cuz I like it. I understand these are aimed at folks who have no self control so not aimed at me. Doesn't mean I can't voice my displeasure.

The fact that anyone who's been playing the game for a year can see that we're slowly starting to play a 3d store with an mmo attached is quite sad. Appearance wise it seems that more time is spent on the store than actual GAME itself. Like others have mentioned before me, what happens when your "whales" quit the game?

I sub to the game. I buy crowns. I buy from the store. I buy crates. For me, outside of that tsaeci motif (which I've been waiting on) I'm not spending anymore money on your crowns. I'm keeping my sub because I love this game but I'm done feeding what you've shown is your priority.

Ley

xbobx wrote: »

you are everything that is wrong in gaming and why gaming is going down the toilet

I'm noticing a trend. You seem to have a lot of resentment towards ESO. Usually when I dislike a game to the extent that you've expressed many times here on the forums, I don't play the game. The expectations that I've seen you express for ZOS are often unrealistic for pretty much any major company.

Marginis

Marginis wrote: »

I got the same survey, as I have once or twice before (this is a fairly routine thing). I still like the game, but I made it clear as I could with my answers that, despite having been with the game since the first announcement of ESO, I dislike and am getting visibly frustrated with the crown crate rewards that are ONLY available through RNG (and not available with crown gems/crowns), time limited offers, and the high cost of a lot of crown store items.

I just worked out that I've spent over $5,000USD on ESO over the years. Specifically $5,196. I feel like this gives my opinions a certain amount of validation. Man, this is weird. I'm not used to feeling validated.

I mean, it could also mean that it doesn't matter what my opinions are, 'cuz ZOS already has my money, I spose... Now I feel sad.

ESO forums, why do you send me on such a rollercoaster ride of emotions?

dimensional

Carbonised wrote: »

The marketing and sales department, however, continues to sour the experience update after update, and their initiatives are what is starting to ruin an otherwise enjoyable gaming experience.

How can your gaming experience be ruined by something that is entirely, 100% optional and not even required to..well, *experience* the game? If the crown store and all of its items never even existed, would your experience also be ruined? Seems like a weird thing to even say.

Everything else you said about the crown store is fine as a personal opinion, but I think it's disingenuous to make that claim in the quote.

beetleklee

I'd love to fill this out but haven't gotten a survey yet.

Recremen

So lacking a survey but with the new /lurker among us I'll chime in a little bit regarding my cash shop experience.

I think that calling my experience with the cash shop "unsatisfying" would be too simple of a review, lacking the nuance required for truly helpful feedback. I certainly like the vast majority of things I've bought from it, or at least mostly liked most of the things, but I'll get into that more later. The biggest problems I have with the cash shop are the delivery methods and price points for various goods, both of which are multifaceted issues in and of themselves.

For delivery methods, my chief gripes have to do with limited-time offers and the use of gambling. I cannot for the life of me justify limited-time offers on digital items like we have in the cash shop from a user perspective. It seems to only be a marketing tactic, and one that I don't fully understand. From my perspective, it seems designed to encourage impulse buying and to cater to the crowd that enjoys exclusivity in their purchases. Both of these things breed resentment towards the cash shop for me. I think that encouraging impulse buying is unethical, and I thoroughly despise exclusivity culture. I like people being able to make rational, well-considered cosmetic purchases that help them achieve their own unique aesthetic goals, irrespective of what other people are buying. In a digital marketplace that is fully achievable. The data for these digital goods doesn't disappear from your server once the sale ends and you aren't going to run out of database references by keeping everything up on the shop.

As far as gambling goes, I'd have a hard time articulating everything I want to say without running into the word limit for a single post, so I'll try to condense it a bit. The use of gambling completely undermines the producer-consumer relationship and turns a more or less wholesome business into a house of thieves. These gambling boxes are sold, as far as the literature goes, as a collection of random consumables with a bonus chance at getting unique cosmetic items. To me, however, this seems like legalistic obfuscation to prevent running afoul of gambling laws and regulations. In practice, the overwhelming majority of advertising for the gambling boxes deals with the "bonus" prizes, and the culture of valuing these "bonus" prizes seems deliberately encouraged and fostered by the company. I can further say with the most extreme confidence that exactly zero customers are actually buying the gambling boxes because they desire the random consumables. All of this put together means that as a company, ZOS appears to be skirting gambling laws under the most tenuous methods of obfuscation, and this breeds more resentment.

All of the above, of course, isn't even touching on the fact that the vast majority of new cosmetic items are locked away in the gambling system! Most new mounts, costumes, emotes, and other cosmetic items are no longer showing up in the cash shop, but as "bonus" prizes for the gambling system. There is also a huge disparity in quality between proper cash shop offerings and the gambling prizes. Let's use the emotes as a case study. In the cash shop, one of the emotes is a janky flex routine that looks more like a parody than an authentic display of prowess, and in a flourish of irony actually makes the character's arms smaller during the bicep flex portion, though this may be a limitation based on the game engine and how it transforms the character model in motion. This season's gambling prizes, by comparison, include a wide selection of extremely evocative emotes which get their message across splendidly. With no means of directly purchasing these, however, those of us who refuse to participate in the gambling system must instead go without.

Now we come to the issue of pricing. My two complaints in this regard have to do with the use of a nonrefundable fiat currency and the prohibitive expense of some of the goods. The nonrefundable currency issue is very simple. The use of "Crowns" as a service builds resentment because "Crowns" themselves are not actually a service, they are a nonrefundable fiat currency that can be exchanged for the actual services : namely the goods found on the cash shop. Again, the advertising and other messaging plays this out. The actual goods causing people to make purchases are the things you can buy with the currency, not the currency itself. Nobody is bragging about how great it feels to buy "Crowns", nobody is creating content showing off their new in-game "Crown" balance, it is entirely driven by the services you buy with the "Crowns". I am not an expert on currency laws, so I can't speak to any technical details, but it seems wrong to be conducting all transactions through this currency that can't be exchanged for other denominations. Just have a proper cash shop. This looks bad.

The issue I have regarding some of the pricing of goods largely goes back to my dislike of exclusivity as a marketing strategy. Many of the higher-quality goods that make it to the proper cash shop seem priced to build an arbitrary class divide. A $40 mount doesn't make sense in a digital marketplace unless, I presume, you're trying to build this exclusivity branding for high-quality items. There aren't any expensive materials being consumed on a per-unit basis for these digital goods, there's just the original production cost and then an arbitrary number of references to the model. Now I'm not a marketing expert so again there's bound to be dynamics or strategies I'm missing, but from a layperson's perspective this looks bad and breeds yet more resentment. I could see a higher price for certain goods if you think there's not going to be much demand for it... but that just doesn't seem to be the case for these high-price items! I could also see a need for higher prices if something's easy to get in game (like how it's $30 for a cash shop provisioning station when you can get it in-game for a mere 35 writ vouchers) because you're exclusively expecting only the laziest of whales to go for it... but again, that's not the case with these high-cost cosmetics! Thus it comes across as trying to build that exclusivity market to me, and I hate it.

The last criticism is also going to bring some elements of praise, because again, my experience with the cash shop isn't completely bad. I do authentically enjoy many of the items I've purchased there! Just look at the Cyrod Patrician Formal Gown!! It has a unique, inspired cut, an enchanting texture, and it dyes absolutely true to expectations. I compare all other costumes to this work of genius. Unfortunately, not all other costumes match up. There are rampant issues with what appears to be copy-pasted patterns (like many of the pirate pack and Redguard costumes), issues with dyeing including poor dye fidelity and vast undeyable areas of a costume, problems with costumes changing the underlying body shape, and issues that are perhaps more related to my personal aesthetic choices, like problems regarding balooning upper bodies coupled with skin-tight pants and boots. Perhaps the best example is the Soiree in Camlorn Evening Suit, where it appears that my very buff character stuck his arms inside a series of oversized marshmallows and then vacuum-sealed everything else from his waist down. Still, with all that said, the overall quality of offerings has been good, I just think that with a few changes it could be exceptional.

Kodrac

/lurker is hit with giant wall of text.

Waffennacht

Chaos2088 wrote: »

I'm curious, is this supposed to be a Citizen Kane re-make?

Raz415

I've said this in the PTR forums as well, I am very displeased with the Crown store that ZOS is running. I find many items very bad value - Vampire Bite and Werewolf Bite feel like something meant purely to rob people. Is there anyone that cares about their money and honestly doesn't regret purchasing that?!

Crown Store motifs are TOO EXPENSIVE. The most expensive ones should cost 3000 crowns at most.
Hair styles and adornments should have been together in one megapack, and they should cost MAX 1500 crowns (since character creation is VERY weak in this game). Barbers should exist in the game that allow people to change between the free hair styles and facial hair styles for gold. I see not having barbers in the game as a conscious decision to force people to fork out to fix horrible errors commited during character creation - which, by the way, is VERY easy to do considering how bad the lighting is during CC.
The Crown Crates are a glorified scam. Many times over drop chances were posted on Reddit that show just how low chance it is to get legendary or even epic drops. The fact that Blues are intentionally made to be more common drops than Greens just shows how ZOS wants to mess with gamblers heads. Getting more Blues gives players the false impression that crates are valuable and riches might be in the next crate. But honestly, greens shouldn't even BE in crates.
Dye stamps are horrible as well. The best, most lively colors in the game are cash only, and if that's not bad enough, they apply to COSTUMES only, and they disappear if you ever want to change color on said costume. Talk about awful. If it were every okay to have the best dyes in the game in the Crown Store (which btw I don't think it is), they should be permanently unlocked for all characters on the account upon purchase.

I wish I got hit with this survey. But ZoS already knows all this. It's not like they lack examples. Other MMOs have infinitely better cash shops. Even WOW is giving away free services with purchase of new expansions (like character boosts), and Blizzard had the most expensive services in the MMO world.

xbobx

Ley wrote: »

xbobx wrote: »

you are everything that is wrong in gaming and why gaming is going down the toilet

I'm noticing a trend. You seem to have a lot of resentment towards ESO. Usually when I dislike a game to the extent that you've expressed many times here on the forums, I don't play the game. The expectations that I've seen you express for ZOS are often unrealistic for pretty much any major company.

another person that cant think outside the box.

I really like the game, i detest what they are doing because they are going to kill the game i like.

is that too hard for you to understand?

I am a lot more experienced in business, marketing than these people are, and i know exactly where this is heading. I doubt i am the only one that thinks this way.

OrdoHermetica

Carbonised wrote: »

Edit: I think it's also very important to repeat what @Turelus and others have mentioned; ESO is a very nice game, the developers, the design team, the sound team, the community managers and the lore geeks are clearly passionate about the game, and it shows. I think few of us have anything to complain about when it comes to the actual game itself. The marketing and sales department, however, continues to sour the experience update after update, and their initiatives are what is starting to ruin an otherwise enjoyable gaming experience.

This. A thousand times this. I REALLY enjoy this game. I do. I play it almost every day, and I generally don't like MMORPGs, so this is a Big Deal for me that I enjoy it enough to play daily. And it's the game itself that interests me, not just the lore; I'm an Elder Scrolls fan, sure, but I've always been a fairly casual Elder Scrolls fan. Interesting world, interesting lore, I enjoy playing in it, but it's not even my favorite fantasy universe out there. Not by a long shot. So, really, it's the game itself. And the sound design. And the exceptional art team. And the writing. And the in-game world-building. This game does so, so many things right.

The Crown Store (the way it's run, not the concept itself) is pretty much the only problem I have with this game, but boy is it a big one. If I ever stop playing ESO, it'll almost certainly be because I can't stand the Crown Store's methods any longer.

OrdoHermetica

xbobx wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Taking a page from Rich's book and just doing this...

/lurk

hey Gina, stop lurking and start contributing. Being that is your job.

I think you misunderstand what her job is. She's not the person responsible for game play, the Crown Store, or customer feedback. She probably can't actually participate in this conversation, because she's not the right department to make official statements and any personal opinions she voices will be taken as official policy. She's a community manager, so her job is to keep her ear to the ground and see how the community is feeling. Which is what she's doing.

But seriously, if you're expecting her to debate with us, or commiserate with us, or address the grievances we're voicing when it's about something she has no say or control over, you're going to be disappointed. On the other hand, the fact that she IS here lurking means someone's actually listening to us, and she'll presumably relay that up the chain. So, I'd say her lurking is a great thing.

Ley

xbobx wrote: »

Ley wrote: »

xbobx wrote: »

you are everything that is wrong in gaming and why gaming is going down the toilet

I'm noticing a trend. You seem to have a lot of resentment towards ESO. Usually when I dislike a game to the extent that you've expressed many times here on the forums, I don't play the game. The expectations that I've seen you express for ZOS are often unrealistic for pretty much any major company.

another person that cant think outside the box.

I really like the game, i detest what they are doing because they are going to kill the game i like.

is that too hard for you to understand?

I am a lot more experienced in business, marketing than these people are, and i know exactly where this is heading. I doubt i am the only one that thinks this way.

You should have said you were a business expert. Clearly you know better than a multi billion dollar company. I'm sure your multi billion dollar company is much more successful.

I'm not saying ZOS is perfect, I'd like to see some changes, but I don't pretend that I know how to run their company better than them. All I can do is point out what changes I would like to see and hope that if enough people feel the same way, changes will occur. Which by the way is kind-of the purpose of this type of survey.

NyassaV

I don't have a survey

Jade1986

This should be a survey sent to EVERY ESO player, unfortunately it wont happen cuz they're afraid of what the results will be.

Jade1986

MornaBaine wrote: »

Man I hope I get this survey. Though my opinion is right in line with the OP's. So yes Zeni, many of us really hate your cash shop, especially the gamble boxes, the shoddy costumes with defects you never fix, the limited time items, the items you can ONLY get in the gamble boxes, and the absolute insanity that inspires your pricing. It's not that I don't WANT to give you money over and above my subscription... it's that I would like to actually be offered the products I and many others have repeatedly asked for and to be able to pay a straight price for them rather than gambling for them... and have that price not be ridiculous. I'd buy a lot MORE if there were things I actually WANTED and I didn't feel like I was being ripped off with every transaction.

I wish I couldve gotten one, le sigh.

OrdoHermetica

Jade1986 wrote: »

This should be a survey sent to EVERY ESO player, unfortunately it wont happen cuz they're afraid of what the results will be.

It's not that, really. Sample sizes and selection criteria are a lot more complicated than that by necessity. If they were afraid of what the results would be, they wouldn't have bothered sending out a survey at all.

starkerealm

JD2013 wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

As for those people who always parrot the same old and trite "it's a business, they're supposed to make money", well, I don't know about you, but I do mind having my online game experience turning into something like this

Oh hell no.

EA, if you're wondering. They filed that as a patent. Given their current market status, I wouldn't expect it to catch on too widely.

mdylan2013

I got one...

I was dissapointed with how it was set up like it was a survey for improvements for the game but it ended up being a tool for them to see how best to get more money out of players.

Obviously the crown store is important to the game.