Do you want class identity or role diversity?

Xuhora

it seems to me that this question splits up the community: With the resent changes, making it easier for other classes than DK to tank or other classes than Templar to heal, the discussion got a new spark. It would interest me further if you play PVE or PVP

CurlyQTip

I want role diversity and im a PVE-Player

Tbh it'd be nice if we could get more classes, though that's not entirely practical with the balancing it takes

Chilly-McFreeze

I want class identity and im a PVP-Player

Give me a reason to choose one class over another.

TelvanniWizard

I want role diversity and im a PVE-Player

The more diversity and variation, customisation and option-wideness the better. Víve la différence!

b.bredfeldtub17_ESO

I want role diversity and im a PVE-Player

I want both, but if I had to pick, it would be what I answered.

It's entirely POSSIBLE for a game to be diverse, unique, and balanced. Is it a tall order? Of course. But, lets say game company has 100% of their resources to divide up. After initial release, I'd say that damn near 100% of it gets devoted to balancing for a solid few months, making tiny incremental changes at least bi-weekly as people figure meta stuff out and move on. Then, maybe 33% while the other 66% gets focused towards new content etc.

Companies never spend enough on balance because it doesn't print dollar bills like player housing (have I mentioned how incredibly expensive that stuff is? is this game really filled with that many whales?), so they opt for doing bare minimum. It's unfortunate.

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Give me a reason to choose one class over another.

Is the reason "this is what I see when I close my eyes and imagine" not good enough?

LuckyLuke

I want role diversity and im a PVE-Player

What if you do both PVP and PVE? Can I select multiple answers?

zyk

I want class identity and im a PVP-Player

Without identity, why have classes at all?

Xuhora

I want role diversity and im a PVE-Player

My intention in having you guys select wether you play PVP or PVE is as follows: I believe that the majority of PVE-players want role Diversity while the other way arround the majority of PVP-players want class identity.

Both have solid reasons for their opinions and IMO thats where the difficulty in this game is burrowed, there are roughly 2 Playerbases (yeah i know there are traders and roleplayers and maybe even bards, and thats fine, they have a right to be there) and these 2 playerbases have strongly separating opinions on how this game should be.

LuckyLuke

I want role diversity and im a PVE-Player

I like to switch it up in the thick of things. Either your tank or healer goes down and you need someone to jump in while another resurrects them.

zyk

I want class identity and im a PVP-Player

Xuhora wrote: »

My intention in having you guys select wether you play PVP or PVE is as follows: I believe that the majority of PVE-players want role Diversity while the other way arround the majority of PVP-players want class identity.

I disagree. Both PVE and PVP players expressed extreme dissatisfaction about the changes in 3.0 that made class identities less distinct.

I've always been baffled at why some feel tank and healer archetype classes should deal damage as well as a dps class. I have never expected or wanted my Nightblades to heal as well as Templar or tank as well as a DK.

This game is extremely alt-friendly. Keep class identities intact and let players roll alts for different roles.

Qbiken

If diversity means that all classes should be equally good at all aspects of the game, then I ´d rather have class identity.

Kikke

I want class identity and im a PVE-Player

zyk wrote: »

Without identity, why have classes at all?

IcyDeadPeople

I want role diversity and im a PVP-Player

How about both?

Class identity includes all the different aspects of your gameplay experience playing that class and using the active and passive abilities.

It is not some arbitrary narrow scope like "DK must be tank, templar must be healer, nb must be dps" etc - theorycrafting in this game has always involved a lot more interesting and complex choices, even since beta. For a lot of us that's the most fun part of the game, coming up with our own build concepts.

Xuhora

I want role diversity and im a PVE-Player

zyk wrote: »

Xuhora wrote: »

My intention in having you guys select wether you play PVP or PVE is as follows: I believe that the majority of PVE-players want role Diversity while the other way arround the majority of PVP-players want class identity.

I disagree. Both PVE and PVP players expressed extreme dissatisfaction about the changes in 3.0 that made class identities less distinct.

I've always been baffled at why some feel tank and healer archetype classes should deal damage as well as a dps class. I have never expected or wanted my Nightblades to heal as well as Templar or tank as well as a DK.

This game is extremely alt-friendly. Keep class identities intact and let players roll alts for different roles.

thats why i made this poll, to see wether my assumptions are correct

Rohamad_Ali

I want class identity and im a PVP-Player

zyk wrote: »

Without identity, why have classes at all?

Exactly . Might as well just make it Skyrim with a wheel of abilities .

leeux

What about those (like myself) that play both PvE and PvP interchangeably?

I, personally, want strong class identity... and revert to nerfs to class signature abilities (within reason.)

b.bredfeldtub17_ESO

I want role diversity and im a PVE-Player

Qbiken wrote: »

If diversity means that all classes should be equally good at all aspects of the game, then I ´d rather have class identity.

I'd say I hope it ends up that whatever you like to play thematically is not good at the kind of content you like to do with a mindset like that just so you see the flaws, but I notice you have a rather large alt list, so it would be lost on you.

I guess F me for only liking one type of character, but wanting to do everything as good as anyone else, right?

Seraphayel

I want role diversity and can't choose any option because I am as much a PvE player as I am a PvP player.

Vahrokh

I want class identity and im a PVE-Player

Xuhora wrote: »

My intention in having you guys select wether you play PVP or PVE is as follows: I believe that the majority of PVE-players want role Diversity while the other way arround the majority of PVP-players want class identity.

Both have solid reasons for their opinions and IMO thats where the difficulty in this game is burrowed, there are roughly 2 Playerbases (yeah i know there are traders and roleplayers and maybe even bards, and thats fine, they have a right to be there) and these 2 playerbases have strongly separating opinions on how this game should be.

What's the point creating a poll, if you purposedly make it biased towards what you believe people should think?

Anyway I am a PvE player and want a reason for rolling a sorc instead of a magblade and vice-versa.

Vahrokh

I want class identity and im a PVE-Player

leeux wrote: »

What about those (like myself) that play both PvE and PvP interchangeably?

I, personally, want strong class identity... and revert to nerfs to class signature abilities (within reason.)

The OP does not know how to gather statistics.

You ask people with unopinionated and free choices first, you segment the results afterwards.
Only doing so, you have a faithful representation of what people truly believe.

Instead he segmented the results based on his own bias and then forces people to corral into one of his pre-made trails of thought.

Riddari

I want role diversity and im a PVE-Player

Really it should be both.

Each class should have a unique identity for each role. You can have it so each role (SDps, Mdps, tank, and healer) is accomplished by each class in different ways. Templar tank should be a paladin heal tank. Nb should be a dodge/shadow clone tank. Sorcerer should be shield/pet tank. Warden should be buffs tank. And dk can be mitigation tank.

You can do this for each role. It gets a little more difficult with dps I guess but if they actually put ANY effort into this idea it could work.

Unfortunately they don't.

SquareSausage

I want class identity and im a PVE-Player

I'm a PvE and PvP player.
I say class identity as that is what determines your skills and makes the characters different.

If people only care about role differences then whats the point of classes? Only weapon and armour skills would differentiate in the most basal form of role identity.

Its the class skills that bring diversity.

mocap

I want role diversity and im a PVE-Player

new role would be outstanding. Some heavy buf/debuf supporter probably, Dwemer Engineer? )

Problem is, we not in Overwatch, where ton of classes with 2-3 abilities, which give you insane diversity. You can heal like this, you can heal like that, you can shield this way or shield other way, deal damage with bombs or snipe... ESO have ton of multiclass abilities but they blur difference between classes. NB healer is pretty much same as Templar healer, using almost same skills.

Turelus

I want both and I don't think they have to be mutually exclusive.

We just need to find ways for each class to achieve the same things via different means. When it comes to things like shards/chains however they become so intrinsic to to healing and tanking that it pushed any classes without an option to the side. Those iconic abilities had to be shared if we ever wanted to see more than one class per role.

Xuhora

I want role diversity and im a PVE-Player

Vahrokh wrote: »

leeux wrote: »

What about those (like myself) that play both PvE and PvP interchangeably?

I, personally, want strong class identity... and revert to nerfs to class signature abilities (within reason.)

The OP does not know how to gather statistics.

You ask people with unopinionated and free choices first, you segment the results afterwards.
Only doing so, you have a faithful representation of what people truly believe.

Instead he segmented the results based on his own bias and then forces people to corral into one of his pre-made trails of thought.

holy cow....

Allright, seems like i did it wrong, apologies about that. My workfield isnt statistics. Im an Architect, and im used to a discussion that works like: Someone tells his opinion, tells what other opinions could be, and then asks the crowd what they think about that.
Then a discussion starts, and never ever have i had someone in my project group telling me: NAAHHH mate, you are biased, i wont participate in the discussion with constructive feedback, id rather tell all the people that you are biased and did it wrong.
thanks for that

and honestly sorry for all other guys that play PVP and PVE and i have forgotten.

Chaos2088

I want role diversity and im a PVE-Player

I am also a PvP player.

DanteYoda

I'm sick and tired of every class turning into a mag spell thrower or a stam dual wielder... Because nothing else can do very well from lv 1 to lv 50 and onwards...

Why the hell does this game even have an option to place health stats if by the end its meaningless... Why can't i play a mage assassin bosmer or a mage orc..

Races stats ruined ESO imo..

So honestly have no idea which to pick poll wise but this games skills need an overhaul to some thing other than stam or mag...

Turelus

DanteYoda wrote: »

I'm sick and tired of every class turning into a mag spell thrower or a stam dual wielder... Because nothing else can do very well from lv 1 to lv 50 and onwards...

Why the hell does this game even have an option to place health stats if by the end its meaningless... Why can't i play a mage assassin bosmer or a mage orc..

Races ruined ESO imo..

So honestly have no idea which to pick poll wise but this games skills need an overhaul to some thing other than stam or mag...

You can, unless you're going for top rankings in leaderboads in PvE or trying to be the best 1vX player in the game.
I have played and continue to play with unoptimised players and they can clear content fine, player skill is way more important than any racial passives.

zyk

I want class identity and im a PVP-Player

Turelus wrote: »

We just need to find ways for each class to achieve the same things via different means..

When you do this, the question becomes why have class at all? Why not just have skill lines? Class is supposed to be loosely analogous to professions and specializations.

I think it's obvious that classes were intended to be flexible enough to perform any role, but each was specialized in one role. It's a reasonable compromise. When the specialization part is removed, so too is the need to have classes.

If flexibility is the goal, let's not invent 5 ways to fry an egg that are all equally desirable. Instead, we may as well:

- Remove classes and label the class skill lines as Specialization Skill Lines.
- Allow characters to select any three Specialization Skill Lines to be active at one time. Perhaps to change them, a respec at a shrine would be necessary.

Beardimus

I want class identity and im a PVP-Player

Look a bit of role diversity is ok. But not at the expense of class identity.

I rolled a Pet healer the day we got the maitriarch heals to prove a point. And it works. But that heal doesn't Nerf the class

The recent patch does nothing to give sorc it's identity back. It's making us tankier. Defensive, blocking, health, mines.

I'm sure a few PvE players fancy tanking vMoL with a sorc. I'm sure. But to steer the glass cannon class to become a dreadnaught for those few is just WEIRD

And at the same time kill MagDW play style.

DanteYoda

Turelus wrote: »

DanteYoda wrote: »

I'm sick and tired of every class turning into a mag spell thrower or a stam dual wielder... Because nothing else can do very well from lv 1 to lv 50 and onwards...

Why the hell does this game even have an option to place health stats if by the end its meaningless... Why can't i play a mage assassin bosmer or a mage orc..

Races ruined ESO imo..

So honestly have no idea which to pick poll wise but this games skills need an overhaul to some thing other than stam or mag...

You can, unless you're going for top rankings in leaderboads in PvE or trying to be the best 1vX player in the game.
I have played and continue to play with unoptimised players and they can clear content fine, player skill is way more important than any racial passives.

How does playing these unoptimized characters work in higher level dungeons when other players see you are a bosmer mage and dump you from teams or never invite you at all..