Are goblins mostly nasty and evil?

rynth

All of Tamriel's problems are because of goblins! Goblin chiefs aren't sending you their shamans and merchants No! They are sending their pillagers, thieves, and murderers! We need to build a huge wall to keep them out and protect our way of life! Let's make Tamriel Great Again! My wall is going to be greatest, it's a beautiful wall the best of the best is this wall, none is greater then my wall. And best thing about it is the goblins will pay for it!

Aebaradath

End their miserable existence or set them free. The only two acceptable choices.

Waffennacht

In Nirn, technically speaking, mankind is far more "evil" than goblins. The race of man was created by Sithis in an attempt to destroy all of creation, just like Lorkhan, and just like Lorkhan mankind didn't do exactly as Sithis had hoped.

The question I suppose is, is there evolution on Nirn? As spirits shaped into beings (and as far as I can tell, no evolutionary adaptations has occurred to any race since their shaping) I suspect not. Meaning the goblins are more than likely gonna be exactly where they are as a race (with a few individual outliers currently in game)

I personally would set them free, in a world with trolls etc roaming around free, what's the harm in goblins?

rfennell_ESO

Jayman1000 wrote: »

Do they mostly do evil deeds? Im trying to figure out if they should remain as slaves, be freed or if genocide is best. Someone please help, thank you.

It depends on the source.

They range from chaotic little tricksters to pure evil.

In Tolkien a "goblin" is just a name for smaller orcs.

Dapper Dinosaur

4 posts in and there's a post comparing argonians to goblins.

Knew it. Definitely doesn't get old.

MLGProPlayer

Wrothgar was a pretty morally varied zone.

IndianaGeoff

If your not with me, you are against me.

Die.

Yzalirk

Goblins are indeed nasty but I would not say they are evil. They were used as slaves by the Altmer, I believe, as they lack intelligence compared to Man and Mer. That is why you usually see different Goblin clans living like barbarians.

Sting864

rynth wrote: »

All of Tamriel's problems are because of goblins! Goblin chiefs aren't sending you their shamans and merchants No! They are sending their pillagers, thieves, and murderers! We need to build a huge wall to keep them out and protect our way of life! Let's make Tamriel Great Again! My wall is going to be greatest, it's a beautiful wall the best of the best is this wall, none is greater then my wall. And best thing about it is the goblins will pay for it!

Makes perfect sense...

Enemy-of-Coldharbour

Not all of them...

Syncronaut

The only good goblin is a dead goblin:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YG5u-lj7Phg

Jayman1000

Violynne wrote: »

Jayman1000 wrote: »

But what if "living as they know" involves murdering any non-goblin they come across?

You mean like wild animals? Care to genocide them off the planet, too?

I think I just found my next enemy.

But, as I made great effort to point out, wild animals can be controlled, they are too stupid too offer any real resistance against the superior intelligent races. Meaning: we don't need to commit genocide against animals, animals can be perfectly controlled. Just look at cows for example. Goblins on the other hand are intelligent enough to pose a real threat, but too stupid to understand how to live civilized. They can't be controlled easily, not unless you resort to genocide or forcing them all to become slaves or putting them all in zoos. I have to choose one of these three options to neutralize them as a threat, but what would be the most humane you think? OR alternatively I need argumentation that goblins are capable of doing and understanding the difference between right and wrong.

Claudman

Waffennacht wrote: »

-snip-

Lorkhan made the races of man, not Sithis. Both Lorkhan and Sithis came from Padomay though.
Sithis is credited with the making of the Hist and Argonians though.

Jayman1000

Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »

Not all of them...

See this is the sort of proof I need to make a decision. Sadly this is not from ESO lore so does not apply to our little imaginary world in which we spend our lives so many hours each day.

Claudman

Anything that isn't a Bantam Guar is nasty and/or evil honestly.

Cpt_Teemo

Jayman1000 wrote: »

Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »

Not all of them...

See this is the sort of proof I need to make a decision. Sadly this is not from ESO lore so does not apply to our little imaginary world in which we spend our lives so many hours each day.

You mean this ?

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/A_Goblin's_Affection

bloodthirstyvampire

Goblins are adorable little pets I'd love one tho bloodfiend pet>>>>>>Goblin

Waffennacht

Claudman wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

-snip-

Lorkhan made the races of man, not Sithis. Both Lorkhan and Sithis came from Padomay though.
Sithis is credited with the making of the Hist and Argonians though.

Well from the wiki:

It is said that Lorkhan was begotten by Sithis to go and destroy the universe, after the Aedra had enslaved everything Sithis had created.[3] It is unknown whether this is true, although the Dark Brotherhood tends to advocate this hypothesis. Some sources state that he simply originated as an Et'Ada formed of the primal urge to physically or metaphorically create.

And about mankind, I'm pretty sure they're spawn of Sithis.

The hist is a left over being from one of the original world's (before Padomay destroyed them)

The hist is not of Padomay or Sithis at all - they're connected because the hist is dream spirits, (all of Nirn is sleeping spirits and dreams remember) so Sithis (the return to the original chaos) and dreamers are closely tied

Waffennacht

Pelinal Whitestrake has an intense hatred for all Mer because he is a creation of Sithis designed to destroy all of the Mer, and why he was Uber powerful

Claudman

Waffennacht wrote: »

-snip-

Unreliable Narrator. I wouldn't rely on a wiki if I were you for authentic information. It's all summed up on interpretation...But, it's specifically stated that the Hist credits Sithis for the making of itself and the world...That's why the Saxhleel revere Sithis (And so do the Kota-Vimleel a.k.a. the Black-Tongues and the Shadowscales). No one knows who created Pelinal and Shor is Lorkhan further proving humanity's reverance of him.

Also note, it explicitly states that it's a hypothesis. Cosmological lore in TES isn't definite 90% of the time, especially when it states itself as a theory, but again if you were able to go up to any Tree-Minder, they could tell you why Sithis is important. Also the dream part of Nirn isn't confirmed nor denied, so I wouldn't rely on that either if I were you.

One more thing to keep in mind...Humans and elves came from Ehlnofey. Argonians didn't.

Waffennacht

Claudman wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

-snip-

Unreliable Narrator. I wouldn't rely on a wiki if I were you for authentic information. It's all summed up on interpretation...But, it's specifically stated that the Hist credits Sithis for the making of itself and the world...That's why the Saxhleel revere Sithis (And so do the Kota-Vimleel a.k.a. the Black-Tongues and the Shadowscales). No one knows who created Pelinal and Shor is Lorkhan further proving humanity's reverance of him.

Also note, it explicitly states that it's a hypothesis. Cosmological lore in TES isn't definite 90% of the time, especially when it states itself as a theory, but again if you were able to go up to any Tree-Minder, they could tell you why Sithis is important. Also the dream part of Nirn isn't confirmed nor denied, so I wouldn't rely on that either if I were you.

One more thing to keep in mind...Humans and elves came from Ehlnofey. Argonians didn't.

I just used wiki cuz it was there, I'm basing everything on in game books.

Absolutely correct about unreliable narrator, but that's practically everything in game.

The book "reality and other falsehoods" is my primary go to.

We know Lorkhan created Nirn for sure.(confirmed by Mehrunes Dagon during Oblivion and the prophet in ESO)

The dream is confirmed via Talos' Ascension and Vivec's CHIM (it's how you achieve CHIM)

Sithis maybe creditied by the Hist (we know the Hist can be easily confused via quests) but Padomay had nothing to do with the 12 worlds - where the Hist is from.

Sithis wasn't around, iirc he came to be with Nirn along with the Daedra and aedra from Padomay and Anu's "death"

Claudman

Waffennacht wrote: »

-snip-

Yeah, I like the fact that The Elder Scrolls is ambiguous about things though. Keeps us thinking and debating. It's clear they wanted to make things immersive for the player by not telling us anything upfront lmao
Maybe dreaming for a God is different to how a mortal dreams? Or maybe dreaming is a figurative way of explaining the unexplainable? You never know with TES.

Speaking of ambiguity...
Goblin morality varies between the tribes, OP. It's not really set in stone how they act or could potentionally act.

Korah_Eaglecry

Jayman1000 wrote: »

Violynne wrote: »

Goblins are neither evil or nice. They're creatures with limited intelligence, living as they know how.

I always choose to free them because anyone trying to enslave them is the true evil.

But what if "living as they know" involves murdering any non-goblin they come across? Preying on civilians just passing by, just because this is the only way they know, and can ever know? In that case I think genocide is probably best, even if they are not at fault for their own defunct genes.

I can't figure out though if this is the case. Do they keep to themselves and do not attack innocent civilians? Or do they prey on innocents, eat them etc?

The real question is. Do they have an understanding of moral right and wrong? If they dont, then no they arent evil or good. Its when they can grasp the concepts of causing harm to others and its implications that this changes.

Its why in the real world we dont prosecute the mentally incompetent for crimes. They cant understand what they are doing is wrong and so its unfair to apply our punishments, for such crimes, on them.

Sting864

Jayman1000 wrote: »

Just look at cows for example. Goblins on the other hand are intelligent enough to pose a real threat, but too stupid to understand how to live civilized.

Besides, have you ever tried Goblin-bacon?? YUCK....

Darkhorse1975

karekiz wrote: »

Goblins are only good for punting.

Jareth the Goblin King agrees...

TheShadowScout

Jayman1000 wrote: »

Are goblins mostly nasty and evil?

Yeah, sort of...
...though technically no more then any other very primitive and brutal culture. No more then reachmen for example. Or no more then some jungle/isle tribes in human history.

And obviosuly, they are a danger to "civilized" people, so they either get persecuted, wiped out, or enslaved when they get too close to "civilization" over in tamriel. Guess which way the dunmer prefer... guess what the redguards did... and make your choice according to what your character would think.

Kanar wrote: »

A book I read said that they have animal level intelligence. Not sure if book had any scientific investigation behind it though...

More like, prejudice and such. After all, the same has been said of humans with dark skin colors at times in our past... and with goblins,. we -know- they have their own language, their own culture, are capable of crafting gear and using spells...

Mozsta69 wrote: »

They should be a playable race with their own passives and maybe a skill line...

Agreed. Tho possibly with a race that also has some drawbacks... like, getting worse deals from all vendors, selling at half price and buying at double, to reflect the civilized races prejudices against "dirty, stinkin' gobbos..." (and yeah, I totally would have an gobbo alt even with drawbacks!)

It is true that -most- goblins are too primitive to be seen as much more then a pest and danger by the people of tamriel. Very much like the citizens of the roman empire viewed "barbarians", yes? Very much like people view orcs in other universes (and at the beginning of the TES series, before Morrowind, before they became a PC race).
But even so that does not mean an -exceptional- goblin could not be a hero under exceptional circumstances!

Anyone else here remembers that PvP guild who rode through cyrodil all in gobbo transformations?

Syncronaut wrote: »

The only good goblin is a dead goblin:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YG5u-lj7Phg

Holy [censored to conform to forum rules]!!! They are actually making a "Goblin Slayer" anime?! YAY!!!
(Must see for all fantasy RPG fans, much like Grimgar, KonoSuba, Log Horizon or Overlord, I say!)

Still, Tamriel gobbos are not -quite- like those gobbos. Almost, but not quite. Still, I keep waiting for someone to RP as "Orcbolg" in tamriel sometime...

Doctordarkspawn

Violynne wrote: »

Goblins are neither evil or nice. They're creatures with limited intelligence, living as they know how.

I always choose to free them because anyone trying to enslave them is the true evil.

Debateable, really.

Left to their own devices they either kill travelers or kill each other.

It's debateable or not whether they have true sentience.

Skander

They may seem evil, but becouse that's how goblin survive.


Being a weak fleeting race doesn't help to be kind. Neither helps to get kindness

Jade1986

There were really intelligent goblins at a time, but they were given the Falmer treatment pretty much.

Serjustin19

Please put down the tourches. Please define what is evil. If you stay with goblins for just 1 day. You'll change your mind. You'll see our goblins are very friendly. Please put away that poison. For if goblins supposed to be evil. Then our characters are evil to. Especially doing that 1 quest. So please, come join my goblin family and friends. You won't regret.