Monetisation of New Systems

Blackbird_V

Jhalin wrote: »

Veteran players need some kind reward for sticking around, and with the direction the game is taking, we’re not getting it.

Veteran Crown Store consumers on the other hand.... Crown store gets more content added to it than the game does in a year

anitajoneb17_ESO

Yigrok wrote: »

ZOS needs to wake up and offer people more personalities/mounts by doing ingame content. It's fairly disgusting the way they are only bringing new stuff just to the store...

That's a bit unfair. Look at the patch notes for Summerset : there are so many new motifs / costumes / skins / hats / and rewards of all kinds tied to playing the game and achieving stuff ingame, that I cannot count them all...
Sure there's a lot of stuff coming to the crown store, but there's a lot in the game too.

Esha76

Just because there are more predatory companies out there, isn’t an excuse for another to be only “sorta predatory”. The “it could be worse” argument only leads people to slowly become more and more accepting of being gouged and exploited by the one company they are currently following/supporting. It could also be better, as well.

Though there is nothing in the crown store, or crates, you need in order to compete the game story line, and nothing that will affect your characters stats either, that is all beside the point.

For a growing number of people, cosmetics and style is their end game. I am one of those. I currently have all motif styles except for militant. I put a ton of time, gold, effort, and yes… even crowns… into obtaining all of that. It’s what’s important to me in this game. I am not alone.

But the problem with this topic is this. So many people have a nasty little opinions as to why one should play a certain game. And the ones who think we should be charged for cosmetics… their heads would explode the second a stat improving item shows up on the store or in crates. Explode. You want to slam your head against dungeon and trial bosses every day, chasing the “Drop-of-the-week”, go ahead. Knock yourself out. I will never fault you for that. But don’t any of you dare condescend, or judge, others who play for the cosmetic chase either. You are not entitled to an opinion as to why I play this game, or anyone else for that matter.

And despite all that, I am not calling for the removal of cosmetic items from the store. I don't like it, but I can live with it. I am, however, adamantly against the notion of motif styles exclusively in crates. I feel the Leadership at ZOS has crossed the line on that one.

So I’m not having it. And before another smug little cherub on this forum feels the need to state the obvious, none of us are against ZOS turning a profit. But they can do so without nickel and dime’ing the hell out of their customer base in the process. Especially not with highly desirable items locked behind an RNG paywall.

Just not having it.


TL/DR: Cosmetics are the end game for many people, and locking highly desirable motif styles behind an RNG paywall is unacceptable.

Yigrok

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Yigrok wrote: »

ZOS needs to wake up and offer people more personalities/mounts by doing ingame content. It's fairly disgusting the way they are only bringing new stuff just to the store...

That's a bit unfair. Look at the patch notes for Summerset : there are so many new motifs / costumes / skins / hats / and rewards of all kinds tied to playing the game and achieving stuff ingame, that I cannot count them all...
Sure there's a lot of stuff coming to the crown store, but there's a lot in the game too.

It is but it isn't at the same time. There are absolutely 0 mounts added to the game, by doing ingame activities. That's to what i was referring to. I did not specify motifs because there are already lots available ingame, albeit some are obtainable very hard... thus making it rather pointless trying to go for them, but still ,they are there, available to get by doing ingame activities which is nice. But as for mounts, except the base 3 or 4 ( or more?) horses there are none added new. Also personalities, there are 1-2 or 3 (?) available ingame but that's it. All the new ones are store tied only.

moonio

I think we just need more balance, ZOS has to decide whether they want to be a game or an online shopping experience and not fool people into thinking they are playing a game when it is in fact just a time wasting experience until the next crown store item drops.

ZOS needs to reward people who are good at playing the actual game, with actual skills and creative commitment to doing new things in game.

I'm sorry but I personally do not want to run around Cyrodiil with a bunch of people who are covered in glitter but who can't play..

Most of the top tier people have gone to other games... that is a fact, maybe Summerset will bring some of them back.. because of .. reasons but ZOS has to work a lot harder at usable and elevating in game rewards if it wants to see its serious fan base return.

But maybe they dont care because they make enough money from the crown store for their purposes and whats the point of actually making the game good again?

I dunno...

BuddyAces

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Yigrok wrote: »

ZOS needs to wake up and offer people more personalities/mounts by doing ingame content. It's fairly disgusting the way they are only bringing new stuff just to the store...

That's a bit unfair. Look at the patch notes for Summerset : there are so many new motifs / costumes / skins / hats / and rewards of all kinds tied to playing the game and achieving stuff ingame, that I cannot count them all...
Sure there's a lot of stuff coming to the crown store, but there's a lot in the game too.

Wait till you start counting how many new items are coming every month to the crown store.

Kodrac

Meanwhile, at Zo$ Marketing HQ...

Jeremiah87

I really like the Idea of these Boss/Dungeon themed Outfit packs but I do agree it would be much more beneficial to the games health to put them where they make sense - into these dungeons as rare drops from the boss. That way ZOS would be bringing a fresh incentive to old content.

anitajoneb17_ESO

BuddyAces wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Yigrok wrote: »

ZOS needs to wake up and offer people more personalities/mounts by doing ingame content. It's fairly disgusting the way they are only bringing new stuff just to the store...

That's a bit unfair. Look at the patch notes for Summerset : there are so many new motifs / costumes / skins / hats / and rewards of all kinds tied to playing the game and achieving stuff ingame, that I cannot count them all...
Sure there's a lot of stuff coming to the crown store, but there's a lot in the game too.

Wait till you start counting how many new items are coming every month to the crown store.

That's only for people who care about the crown store. That is : not me.
Why can't people just simply IGNORE something they dislike... ?
What's the point of the comparison ?
You state that everything new is in the crown store and not in the game : that's not true, plain and simple.
Seems to me that people only want to look at what makes them angry, not what they enjoy.

BuddyAces

Jeremiah87 wrote: »

I really like the Idea of these Boss/Dungeon themed Outfit packs but I do agree it would be much more beneficial to the games health to put them where they make sense - into these dungeons as rare drops from the boss. That way ZOS would be bringing a fresh incentive to old content.

Just this alone would have been one hell of a gesture from ZOS. It feels like that's where they should drop from. This was the straw that killed the camel's back for me if I had to pick one. The game is starting to feel like Amazon with a toon you can go around with to window shop. No wonder so many pvp folks don't even sub to this game, there's no reason for them to. Not another penny from me.

warriorladysif

With the exception of XP scrolls and mount scrolls... none of the things in the crown store effect gameplay whatsoever. You can buy outfits for AC Origins from the Ubisoft store, and that's all they are, outfits. This has little difference to me. I'm subscribed to ESO plus, and was a subscriber from the beginning, because I love TES and wanted to support ESO. Yes, I purchase vanity mounts, but you can buy outfit slots and have outfits crafted in game. You can get XP potions in game. You can get almost an equivalent to almost everything in the crown store - in game.

As long as there's a market for premium options, ZOS will indulge.

warriorladysif

mythlover20 wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

So this is part rant, part constructive feedback. You've been warned.

After seeing the showing of the new "boss weapon packs" available in the Crown Store yesterday, I have to ask if there is a game system ZOS' marketing team isn't going monetise as much as possible.

For those not aware of what I am talking about there seems to be packs for sale in the Crown Store which are new items for the Outfit System which change your themed around a boss.
Images courtesy of Alcast.

https://twitter.com/AlcastESO/status/985995846918455296

My gripes with this comes from what could have been an interesting mechanic to bring life back to old content has most likely become another pay to unlock pack (note it's not 100% confirmed these are store only yet).

This isn't the first instance of a new system being done in a way which it can be monetised either, it's not even the only monetisation used for the Outfit System.

List of Monetised Systems.

Housing
Crown only decorations.
Crown Crate only decorations.
Housing slots locked behind subscription.

Transmutation
Additional token slots locked behind subscription.

Outfit System
Outfit slots per character and sold for insane amounts ($14.99 each!)
Crown Store only outfit items (Summerset pre-order, Summerset Crown Store)

I wouldn't be entirely against the above being in the store if they were better priced ($15 for a single outfit slot usable by a single character!) or something we could still earn in game (Mundus Stones not attainable in game) however it's that sad part of gaming these days where everything is sold for real money rather than being attainable through the gameplay.

Now I understand ZOS is a company, they need to find ways to make money for ESO to continue and that the more money they make means more content and things we love going forwards. But... I can't say seeing the trend above I am really excited for new features which are developed if each one is going to have parts locked behind real money purchases.

I've often made the joke about ESO becoming more like SWTOR and whilst we are far from that this trend of making every new system in a way which it can then be monetised is kind of heading that route.

/endrant

Remember to like, favourite and subscribe. If you have your own thoughts on ZOS monetisation leave a comment in the comments section below!

This is another issue that I was concerned with when I made my posts about how Summerset is being priced and screws over the old players. This game is losing everything that made it a reasonably safe space to play. But you are entirely right. ZoS wants money more than players, even though it's the long-term-players who spend the most money. They can't see past their own quarterly profits and bonuses, and refuse to listen to anyone who tells them the game is suffering for it.

I knew this was going to happen the second Summerset was announced, when it was still Summerset+Morrowind for all, even those who already owned Morrowind. I knew it when Morrowind was being made available in the crown store for the free crowns people get with their subscriptions.

The game is dying. The small handful of new players will never offset the veteran players now abandoning the game in droves. They had a good thing, but they just had to go *** it up. Again.

Honestly I don't even know why I bother playing anymore.

Oh, wait, yes I do: it's the only social interaction I can have that doesn't give me a days-long panic attack.

But seriously, ZoS, you need to start listening to us, unless you want to be out of a job by this time next year.

Veteran players are leaving the game in droves, eh? That explains why ESO is one of the largest and most successful MMOs currently active, eh?

Stovahkiin

warriorladysif wrote: »

mythlover20 wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

So this is part rant, part constructive feedback. You've been warned.

After seeing the showing of the new "boss weapon packs" available in the Crown Store yesterday, I have to ask if there is a game system ZOS' marketing team isn't going monetise as much as possible.

For those not aware of what I am talking about there seems to be packs for sale in the Crown Store which are new items for the Outfit System which change your themed around a boss.
Images courtesy of Alcast.

https://twitter.com/AlcastESO/status/985995846918455296

My gripes with this comes from what could have been an interesting mechanic to bring life back to old content has most likely become another pay to unlock pack (note it's not 100% confirmed these are store only yet).

This isn't the first instance of a new system being done in a way which it can be monetised either, it's not even the only monetisation used for the Outfit System.

List of Monetised Systems.

Housing
Crown only decorations.
Crown Crate only decorations.
Housing slots locked behind subscription.

Transmutation
Additional token slots locked behind subscription.

Outfit System
Outfit slots per character and sold for insane amounts ($14.99 each!)
Crown Store only outfit items (Summerset pre-order, Summerset Crown Store)

I wouldn't be entirely against the above being in the store if they were better priced ($15 for a single outfit slot usable by a single character!) or something we could still earn in game (Mundus Stones not attainable in game) however it's that sad part of gaming these days where everything is sold for real money rather than being attainable through the gameplay.

Now I understand ZOS is a company, they need to find ways to make money for ESO to continue and that the more money they make means more content and things we love going forwards. But... I can't say seeing the trend above I am really excited for new features which are developed if each one is going to have parts locked behind real money purchases.

I've often made the joke about ESO becoming more like SWTOR and whilst we are far from that this trend of making every new system in a way which it can then be monetised is kind of heading that route.

/endrant

Remember to like, favourite and subscribe. If you have your own thoughts on ZOS monetisation leave a comment in the comments section below!

This is another issue that I was concerned with when I made my posts about how Summerset is being priced and screws over the old players. This game is losing everything that made it a reasonably safe space to play. But you are entirely right. ZoS wants money more than players, even though it's the long-term-players who spend the most money. They can't see past their own quarterly profits and bonuses, and refuse to listen to anyone who tells them the game is suffering for it.

I knew this was going to happen the second Summerset was announced, when it was still Summerset+Morrowind for all, even those who already owned Morrowind. I knew it when Morrowind was being made available in the crown store for the free crowns people get with their subscriptions.

The game is dying. The small handful of new players will never offset the veteran players now abandoning the game in droves. They had a good thing, but they just had to go *** it up. Again.

Honestly I don't even know why I bother playing anymore.

Oh, wait, yes I do: it's the only social interaction I can have that doesn't give me a days-long panic attack.

But seriously, ZoS, you need to start listening to us, unless you want to be out of a job by this time next year.

Veteran players are leaving the game in droves, eh? That explains why ESO is one of the largest and most successful MMOs currently active, eh?

If that’s true, it frankly isn’t that impressive, as the mmo market has really stagnated over the last few years

Elsonso

Breg_Magol wrote: »

I've been playing BDO until I couldn't stomach it's monetising of it's game ... and PA's monetising is downright TOXIC because it creates in game problems that can *conveniently* be made solvable by buying items in their cashstore.

ESO's monetising seems tame by comparison and it seems to be mainly for things that don't directly affect game progression ... or am I wrong?

Tamer. ZOS sure appears to be more on the "evil" side of the line than the "good" side, these days, even if they are not as evil as others.

BuddyAces

My personal thoughts from PC NA is that the game is very healthy from just what I see. It's an awesome game and the graphics are top notch. There is literally something for every kind of player in this game.

lordrichter wrote: »

Breg_Magol wrote: »

I've been playing BDO until I couldn't stomach it's monetising of it's game ... and PA's monetising is downright TOXIC because it creates in game problems that can *conveniently* be made solvable by buying items in their cashstore.

ESO's monetising seems tame by comparison and it seems to be mainly for things that don't directly affect game progression ... or am I wrong?

Tamer. ZOS sure appears to be more on the "evil" side of the line than the "good" side, these days, even if they are not as evil as others.

I agree. Over all their crown store is nowhere near as bad as most. I'm using their new weapon graphics pack thingy as an example since it's what pissed me off. Here is something that should have been put in game to rejuvinate older content but ZO$ is throwing it onto the store. The new single page motis going into crates. More crap to dilute the loot table. It's a giant slap in the face and a big FU from them. They are getting worse and worse all the time. It's what most companies do when their game is failing bad and I highly doubt this game is anywhere close to failing.

inthecoconut

I sub. I also buy things from the Crown store.

But a lot of my enjoyment comes from collecting and achieving rewards by playing the game. I don't mind certain things, like convenience/service/quality-of-life items and gag/themed costumes being crown-store exclusive. But it is very frustrating when you take something truly epic and make it only accessible by paying real money for it. It does two things for me:

1. I have less content to look forward to that I can acquire through playing the game. Everyone plays for different reasons, and while I think ESO as a whole is fun, the thing that keeps me going back and revisiting content is the lure of unlocking a dye, costume, motif, ect.
2. I don't feel fulfilled by clicking a button for "epic" content. I want to feel like I achieved or earned something. I am less impressed by a boss-themed skin when I know the only way to get it, is to pay money for it.

To be clear, I'm not saying they should remove cosmetic or even epic content from the cash shop. I understand not everyone shares the same feeling of wanting to "earn" rewards, or simply don't have the time. I don't mind paying money to support the game. I have, and still do. But I wont buy epic-tier cosmetics that look like they should be earned through playing the game, in an equally epic manner.

OtisMiller

Carbonised wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

Also, Turelus you forgot to mention that they have now also gone from selling Crown Store exclusive motifs, to Crown Crate exclusive motifs cut up in pieces and sold to us in parts via the gambling system (good luck trying to catch them all!).

?? Would you please explain what you're referring to ? I haven't seen any motif being included in crates... is that new on PTS ?

Yes it's on the PTS. The new crates will drop the Maomar motif, which looks pretty dang awesome, but only from crates, and only single pages of the motif. So you're going to have to spend a huge amount of dollars and battle RNG hidden inside RNG if you want the entire motif ...

Just another step down the slippery slope of [snip] business practises that this company is infamous for now.

[Edited to remove profanity]

Is there an achievement for this motif? Or is it like the other Crown Store motifs with no achievement/lorebook entries?

Dragath

themaddaedra wrote: »

There's this ironic part where i most fall for, which is ZoS wanting us to play and spend more and more hours in game (considering the truth they retain people from deconstructing hoarded jewellery only because they want them to grind hard, and they are now introducing daily log in rewards) and yet they don't give any considerable rewards for doing that.

I mean what reward does the game offer to people who play long hours every day in either PvP or PvE? I'm not noticing anything comparable to stuff that's in crown store.

So i would just like them to decide either they want us play the game consistently or not.

they want you to play the game, so people that are actually buying lots of stuff, have someone to play with.
the whole reason for free2play or buy2play mmos is the fact that you can get a living game where 90% of players are just very sophisticated npcs for the 10% players who buy stuff.

BuddyAces

inthecoconut wrote: »

I sub. I also buy things from the Crown store.

But a lot of my enjoyment comes from collecting and achieving rewards by playing the game. I don't mind certain things, like convenience/service/quality-of-life items and gag/themed costumes being crown-store exclusive. But it is very frustrating when you take something truly epic and make it only accessible by paying real money for it. It does two things for me:

1. I have less content to look forward to that I can acquire through playing the game. Everyone plays for different reasons, and while I think ESO as a whole is fun, the thing that keeps me going back and revisiting content is the lure of unlocking a dye, costume, motif, ect.
2. I don't feel fulfilled by clicking a button for "epic" content. I want to feel like I achieved or earned something. I am less impressed by a boss-themed skin when I know the only way to get it, is to pay money for it.

To be clear, I'm not saying they should remove cosmetic or even epic content from the cash shop. I understand not everyone shares the same feeling of wanting to "earn" rewards, or simply don't have the time. I don't mind paying money to support the game. I have, and still do. But I wont buy epic-tier cosmetics that look like they should be earned through playing the game, in an equally epic manner.

You said it way better than I have been. Have a cookie.

twitch_zero

Depending on the price I have no issue with boss themed arms packs being sold DIRECTLY in the crown store. I would have a problem if they were gated behind the RNG in crown crates like the maormer style pages.

Sylosi

DetreS wrote: »

This is one of the things i hate of gw2, Best weps or armor skins are in the store and you have to play money for them.

You can't have played GW2 very much if you think you "have to pay money for them", in GW2 the currency you earn in game (gold) can be converted to the cash shop currency (gems), you don't need to spend a penny of real money to get outfits or skins in GW2.

VileDeeds77

Is it even confirmed that it is only available on the store? How do we know if they intend to put it in the dungeons at a chance to drop? I think we need to give ZOS a chance to announce them before we jump to the doom and gloom, that the game is dying, and its so greedy of them.

Give them an opportunity to announce them being a thing in the first place.......

Secondly, they are SKINS, it is cosmetic only. If they do choose to sell them, big deal, if you don't want them don't buy them. I get sick of reading the doom and gloom junk before it is even announced officially. If its off the PTS, it is subject to change before going live, and no timeline of when they go live either, everyone just relax.

Jhalin

VileDeeds77 wrote: »

Is it even confirmed that it is only available on the store? How do we know if they intend to put it in the dungeons at a chance to drop? I think we need to give ZOS a chance to announce them before we jump to the doom and gloom, that the game is dying, and its so greedy of them.

Give them an opportunity to announce them being a thing in the first place.......

Secondly, they are SKINS, it is cosmetic only. If they do choose to sell them, big deal, if you don't want them don't buy them. I get sick of reading the doom and gloom junk before it is even announced officially. If its off the PTS, it is subject to change before going live, and no timeline of when they go live either, everyone just relax.

Yeah they’re cosmetics which would have fit in perfectly to older content to encourage people to start running it again. There is absolutely no justification for making them cash shop exclusives when they’re literally based on in-game dungeons.

GlassToTheArson

mikejezz wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

They just want to squeeze out money of every possible aspect of the game.

I really really really don't like this. Why is the nice stuff Crown Store related? They don't add any new mounts or nice things to the base game that you can unlock or achieve, everything goes straight to the Crown Store. Why even ESO+? It already feels like a F2P game with all the stuff you can buy in the shop. And it won't get any better, it will get worse.

I really don't like this massive monetizing aspect of the game. It's just lame and disappointing for every loyal player.

To be fair regarding mounts, this game nails it better than WoW. There you pay to play and also have to pay for mounts on the store (I know they put a little bit of mounts in each expansion that can be obtained in raids.)

Here you actually can pay for mounts with the monthly crowns you get.

You clearly don't play a whole lot of WoW then. 95% of the mounts in WoW can be earned IN GAME, most of which look worlds better than the stuff in the store.

Lluanda

I'm not surprised. Disappointed, yes, but I was expecting something like this.

With the outfit station this was bound to happen. They were selling us all these outfits and people bought them and wanted them from crates and crownstore because the armor system was crap and the best sets often looked ugly. So they gave us the outfit system and now people can look the way they want to look. So how are they going to make money now that outfits are potentially just as cool looking and more unique than costumes? Right: put the coolest looking stuff behind a gate that makes you pay a lot if you want it all. One price will make it accessible to everyone, but by throwing in separate pages people will spend much more money to complete the set.
It's a shame really, the motif looks nice but this isn't worth it. Wouldn't be surprised if the full motif is in the crown crates as a radius apex reward. That would really be spitting in the faces of the crafters and collector's.

Turelus

VileDeeds77 wrote: »

Is it even confirmed that it is only available on the store? How do we know if they intend to put it in the dungeons at a chance to drop? I think we need to give ZOS a chance to announce them before we jump to the doom and gloom, that the game is dying, and its so greedy of them.

Give them an opportunity to announce them being a thing in the first place.......

Secondly, they are SKINS, it is cosmetic only. If they do choose to sell them, big deal, if you don't want them don't buy them. I get sick of reading the doom and gloom junk before it is even announced officially. If its off the PTS, it is subject to change before going live, and no timeline of when they go live either, everyone just relax.

We don't know if they're in the dungeons yet, but if they were don't you think ZOS would have said something by now?

Put everyone at ease, maybe had it in the patch notes. Don't kid yourself, you know as well as we do what will happen.

efduncanub17_ESO

This is why I was so mad this game gave up on the sub only model this is what it goes to....there is sadly little achievement anything in this game other than dye colors and a number...Achievement mounts are one of the best parts of WoW...Keeping everything a 160 CP also makes gear rewards meh in trails and new Dungeons as the stuff from the original content is still BiS in a lot of cases

efduncanub17_ESO

This is why I was so mad this game gave up on the sub only model this is what it goes to....there is sadly little achievement anything in this game other than dye colors and a number...Achievement mounts are one of the best parts of WoW...Keeping everything a 160 CP also makes gear rewards meh in trails and new Dungeons as the stuff from the original content is still BiS in a lot of cases

Marabornwingrion

If you point with cursor on styles in your collections, you have description where this motif can be aquired.

On PTS monster masks have nothing in the description...
So maybe styles for shoulders and helms will drop from dungeons, but styles for weapons only from Crown Store...?

Turelus

Astrid_V wrote: »

If you point with cursor on styles in your collections, you have description where this motif can be aquired.

On PTS monster masks have nothing in the description...
So maybe styles for shoulders and helms will drop from dungeons, but styles for weapons only from Crown Store...?

That's my understanding, at least from what's been linked. Seems we got a half and half deal on it.