Monetisation of New Systems

Violynne

Turelus wrote: »

Now I understand ZOS is a company, they need to find ways to make money for ESO to continue and that the more money they make means more content and things we love going forwards.

Do you really? Because complaining about store offerings and high prices tells me otherwise.

ZoS' decision to go F2P is why we're seeing these store offerings and prices. If the player base didn't complain about $15/mo to play a game as expansive as ESO, then it's extremely likely we would have had cheaper prices in the store.

But here's the reality, and this is coming from someone who works in software: 2% of the people pay for 100% of the service.

This is a typical average, and it sucks. People expect software to be free now, and this isn't just about gaming. Look at the apps on your phone. How many do you think people actually paid for?

This leaves several models open: ads (which, lol, is never a model) or services.

The Crown Store is a service, not part of the game. The digital goods sold there isn't where ZoS makes its money. It makes its money on the purchase of Crowns needed to transact with the store.

Many companies use the 2% model to balance out their development, and trust me when I say it sucks, because it's never consistent. There are periods where people come in, or leave, but the revenue stream is never consistent.

The only way to make revenue streams consistent is by enacting a fee for the service, aka, the subscription.

But we already know what will happen if ZoS makes a subscription mandatory: the majority of free players will leave.

So, to prevent the exodus and continue to generate revenue, they offer the Crown Store with the hopes that as they work further changes, people will become ESO+ members voluntarily.

I sure as hell wouldn't want to be a bean counter in this setup. The balance sheets must be total nightmares, and I can only imagine how many game development ideas have been cut because of the lack of a strong, consistent revenue stream.

***

Changing gears just a bit as I speak personally, the only thing I despise about the Crown Store is how it treats subscribers.

ESO+ members should have direct access to EVERY ITEM SOLD in the Crown Store, not behind gambling items.

This could probably even entice more people to sub ESO+ just to get the things they want, with the caveat that the moment the sub is closed, so too are the items (much like the craft bag).

Just my two Septims.

Oh, and I went ahead and agreed with you anyway.

VerboseQuips

The crown crate only motif bugs me the most. I mean, Summerset has already less motifs than Morrowind at launch. *And* it has to lock one behind RNG-paywall!

My enjoyment of the game has been diminishing lately, as I have to put more and more effort to push the monetization away from my mind and just get immersed.

Come on, now anyone who won't want to dabble in Crown Crates will be perma-locked away from being a master crafter. That's really infuriating me. And it puts me really close to revoking my ESO+ sub, to be honnest. I won't do it before having had an opportunity to check whether Summerset is enjoyable. But for the first time since beta, I am actually, seriously, considering it. (And the day when, for some reason, I will be perma-locked away from being a master crafter, is probably the day my journey in Tamriel will end, as it has been my long-term goal since the beginning of it all.)

VerboseQuips

Jeremiah87 wrote: »

I really like the Idea of these Boss/Dungeon themed Outfit packs but I do agree it would be much more beneficial to the games health to put them where they make sense - into these dungeons as rare drops from the boss. That way ZOS would be bringing a fresh incentive to old content.

Agreed, their only place is as rare drop from the Dungeon bosses in the form of a tradeable runebox. Heck, they coul even add actual weapons to complete the current set and improve them.

Lyserus

NupidStoob wrote: »

Motifs exclusive to crown crates is where we should draw the line.

^This.
Put your lore breaking mounts in the crates, I don't care.

But leave motifs out of the gamble

moonio

On a more positive note, the new in game motifs look gorgeous...
https://youtu.be/zLByBs5624w

BuddyAces

Violynne wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Now I understand ZOS is a company, they need to find ways to make money for ESO to continue and that the more money they make means more content and things we love going forwards.

Do you really? Because complaining about store offerings and high prices tells me otherwise.

ZoS' decision to go F2P is why we're seeing these store offerings and prices. If the player base didn't complain about $15/mo to play a game as expansive as ESO, then it's extremely likely we would have had cheaper prices in the store.

But here's the reality, and this is coming from someone who works in software: 2% of the people pay for 100% of the service.

This is a typical average, and it sucks. People expect software to be free now, and this isn't just about gaming. Look at the apps on your phone. How many do you think people actually paid for?

This leaves several models open: ads (which, lol, is never a model) or services.

The Crown Store is a service, not part of the game. The digital goods sold there isn't where ZoS makes its money. It makes its money on the purchase of Crowns needed to transact with the store.

Many companies use the 2% model to balance out their development, and trust me when I say it sucks, because it's never consistent. There are periods where people come in, or leave, but the revenue stream is never consistent.

The only way to make revenue streams consistent is by enacting a fee for the service, aka, the subscription.

But we already know what will happen if ZoS makes a subscription mandatory: the majority of free players will leave.

So, to prevent the exodus and continue to generate revenue, they offer the Crown Store with the hopes that as they work further changes, people will become ESO+ members voluntarily.

I sure as hell wouldn't want to be a bean counter in this setup. The balance sheets must be total nightmares, and I can only imagine how many game development ideas have been cut because of the lack of a strong, consistent revenue stream.

***

Changing gears just a bit as I speak personally, the only thing I despise about the Crown Store is how it treats subscribers.

ESO+ members should have direct access to EVERY ITEM SOLD in the Crown Store, not behind gambling items.

This could probably even entice more people to sub ESO+ just to get the things they want, with the caveat that the moment the sub is closed, so too are the items (much like the craft bag).

Just my two Septims.

Oh, and I went ahead and agreed with you anyway.

If only 2 percent pay then this game has millions upon millions of players. Everywhere you go all you see are crate mounts/crate stuff on people. This isn't some dead game where a handful of folks are paying for the rest.

Hearts_Wake

Ive always wondered why there arent mounts rewarded for some achievements. Dont think theres a single one. Correct me of wrong pls. So i can go do that thing.

Turelus

Hearts_Wake wrote: »

Ive always wondered why there arent mounts rewarded for some achievements. Dont think theres a single one. Correct me of wrong pls. So i can go do that thing.

There are no mounts obtainable within the game beyond the base horses you can buy for gold (or now get one rewarded via level up system).

Juju_beans

Violynne wrote: »

I sure as hell wouldn't want to be a bean counter in this setup. The balance sheets must be total nightmares, and I can only imagine how many game development ideas have been cut because of the lack of a strong, consistent revenue stream.

I wouldn't worry too much. Activision and Ubisoft reported that over 50% of their revenue last year came from microtransactions.

I remember Activison's numbers ...$7 billion in revenue with $4 billion of that coming from microtransactions.

Geroken777

Juju_beans wrote: »

Violynne wrote: »

I sure as hell wouldn't want to be a bean counter in this setup. The balance sheets must be total nightmares, and I can only imagine how many game development ideas have been cut because of the lack of a strong, consistent revenue stream.

I wouldn't worry too much. Activision and Ubisoft reported that over 50% of their revenue last year came from microtransactions.

I remember Activison's numbers ...$7 billion in revenue with $4 billion of that coming from microtransactions.

Please remember that NOT ALL companies make money from micro transactions. Owner of Witcher 3 for example has swore that they will never add micro transactions and this is earning them money as well.

Feanor

Geroken777 wrote: »

Juju_beans wrote: »

Violynne wrote: »

I sure as hell wouldn't want to be a bean counter in this setup. The balance sheets must be total nightmares, and I can only imagine how many game development ideas have been cut because of the lack of a strong, consistent revenue stream.

I wouldn't worry too much. Activision and Ubisoft reported that over 50% of their revenue last year came from microtransactions.

I remember Activison's numbers ...$7 billion in revenue with $4 billion of that coming from microtransactions.

Please remember that NOT ALL companies make money from micro transactions. Owner of Witcher 3 for example has swore that they will never add micro transactions and this is earning them money as well.

Project RED is an outlier as publisher. Also Witcher 3 was a single player game and not an MMO.

Sabbathius

Some monetization is fine. But what they are doing right now is walking the fine edge. If they cross a line and get that uncomfortable "cheap F2P mobile game" vibe going, it'll do more harm than good. I don't know what they have going over there internally, but based on my work experience it just feels like they hired a new Skeever in their marketing department, and the Skeever has some "excellent new ideas" to "improve monetization". I've seen Skeevers like that sink entire businesses when they get overzealous trying to justify their own (usually overly large) paycheck. Point is, ZOS, rein in your Skeevers.

EvilAutoTech

The worst part of the motif being a crate exclusive is that you cannot count on it not being included in the master writ system.

I have read that motif styles exclusive to holiday events or the crown store are excluded from master writs. This morning I created an epic pair of sturdy ancestor silk Breaches of Lamae in skinchanger for six vouchers.

anitajoneb17_ESO

EvilAutoTech wrote: »

The worst part of the motif being a crate exclusive is that you cannot count on it not being included in the master writ system.

I have read that motif styles exclusive to holiday events or the crown store are excluded from master writs. This morning I created an epic pair of sturdy ancestor silk Breaches of Lamae in skinchanger for six vouchers.

And... ?

You can bash ZOS for the sake of bashing, but if you do so, please take a second to review your facts.
ZOS have never said that holiday motifs such as skinchanger would not be required for master writs.
They did promise, though, that crown store exclusive motifs (so far, Frostcaster and Grim Harlequin) would be excluded from master writs and they have always held on to that promise.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Geroken777 wrote: »

Please remember that NOT ALL companies make money from micro transactions. Owner of Witcher 3 for example has swore that they will never add micro transactions and this is earning them money as well.

Where does RED (owners of TW3) have development costs for TW3 ? Where does RED have server costs and maintenance costs for TW3 to cover ? They released two expansions (for money) and then stopped having any kind of costs to cover. Compare what's comparable.

Geroken777

Feanor wrote: »

Geroken777 wrote: »

Juju_beans wrote: »

Violynne wrote: »

I sure as hell wouldn't want to be a bean counter in this setup. The balance sheets must be total nightmares, and I can only imagine how many game development ideas have been cut because of the lack of a strong, consistent revenue stream.

I wouldn't worry too much. Activision and Ubisoft reported that over 50% of their revenue last year came from microtransactions.

I remember Activison's numbers ...$7 billion in revenue with $4 billion of that coming from microtransactions.

Please remember that NOT ALL companies make money from micro transactions. Owner of Witcher 3 for example has swore that they will never add micro transactions and this is earning them money as well.

Project RED is an outlier as publisher. Also Witcher 3 was a single player game and not an MMO.

Far Cry 5 has micro transactions, so does middle earth despite both being single player games.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Turelus wrote: »

Hearts_Wake wrote: »

Ive always wondered why there arent mounts rewarded for some achievements. Dont think theres a single one. Correct me of wrong pls. So i can go do that thing.

There are no mounts obtainable within the game beyond the base horses you can buy for gold (or now get one rewarded via level up system).

If I remember correctly the giant flee... errr... Nix-Ox... is free.... not sure what package it comes with, Morrowind perhaps ?

Cinbri

@Turelus
meanwhile do you know how to obtain monster shoulders of kena/shadow/ilambris from outfit system, it doesn't say anything how to get it and if other monster sets will be available?

Yzalirk

So the packs only include 5 different weapon skins? What is the point?

Geroken777

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Hearts_Wake wrote: »

Ive always wondered why there arent mounts rewarded for some achievements. Dont think theres a single one. Correct me of wrong pls. So i can go do that thing.

There are no mounts obtainable within the game beyond the base horses you can buy for gold (or now get one rewarded via level up system).

If I remember correctly the giant flee... errr... Nix-Ox... is free.... not sure what package it comes with, Morrowind perhaps ?

That mount still locked behind a pay wall lol. Considering that they also gave it away only once...

randomkeyhits

This is sort of where the hype train was always going to go. All those forum people with the take_my_money.gif posts and the "its so beautiful, I'd easily pay $100 for that". ZOS listened and shrugged and said "OK then, we will"

and they did, with a vengeance.

With each crown crate season they've pushed it a bit further and still we buy crates, in the third season they added the research scrolls, I'm betting very few got converted to crowns so they realised that players wanted them, pulled them out of the crates and made them directly available. If there is one thing they love its per character consumables.

In the coming season motif pages, couldn't believe it when I heard it and didn't want to. Will wait to see how it all plays out but it but I've a good idea already. Crates will still be purchased, some will avoid because of the motifs, some others will buy more because of the motifs, most who buy crates won't care either way, they'll have their dice roll and get what they get.

Just had a thought, fourteen pages right? does it only take up one slot in the loot table or is it some serious dilution making apex type rewards even harder to get? No matter how I look at it all i can think is "Bad ZOS, BAD!"

datgladiatah

This is so very ugly. Kind of tired of seeing any content related things being avoided so that *** like this can be focused...

Elsonso

Feanor wrote: »

Geroken777 wrote: »

Juju_beans wrote: »

Violynne wrote: »

I sure as hell wouldn't want to be a bean counter in this setup. The balance sheets must be total nightmares, and I can only imagine how many game development ideas have been cut because of the lack of a strong, consistent revenue stream.

I wouldn't worry too much. Activision and Ubisoft reported that over 50% of their revenue last year came from microtransactions.

I remember Activison's numbers ...$7 billion in revenue with $4 billion of that coming from microtransactions.

Please remember that NOT ALL companies make money from micro transactions. Owner of Witcher 3 for example has swore that they will never add micro transactions and this is earning them money as well.

Project RED is an outlier as publisher. Also Witcher 3 was a single player game and not an MMO.

I wish Bethesda was a little more outlier as a publisher. I know what has been said about the ESO Crown Store and the philosophy, but I honestly believe that there is no monetization option that is really off the table. That includes the full range of Free to Play Pay To Win. In my mind, it is only a matter of time, and if it isn't ESO, it will be the next game.

Wayshuba

I actually think it is funny to see ZoS moving in a direction that many publishers are actually backing away from - including EA, Activision, Ubisoft and others. They have realized the envelope was pushed to far and customer sensitivity to every little game update being released with some kind of monetization scheme in a game people ALREADY PAID for has reached a breaking point.

Seems like we will reach that point with ESO in the near future as well. Since last year, they haven't introduced a single patch to the game without some kind of new monetization scheme in it.

Turelus

lordrichter wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Geroken777 wrote: »

Juju_beans wrote: »

Violynne wrote: »

I sure as hell wouldn't want to be a bean counter in this setup. The balance sheets must be total nightmares, and I can only imagine how many game development ideas have been cut because of the lack of a strong, consistent revenue stream.

I wouldn't worry too much. Activision and Ubisoft reported that over 50% of their revenue last year came from microtransactions.

I remember Activison's numbers ...$7 billion in revenue with $4 billion of that coming from microtransactions.

Please remember that NOT ALL companies make money from micro transactions. Owner of Witcher 3 for example has swore that they will never add micro transactions and this is earning them money as well.

Project RED is an outlier as publisher. Also Witcher 3 was a single player game and not an MMO.

I wish Bethesda was a little more outlier as a publisher. I know what has been said about the ESO Crown Store and the philosophy, but I honestly believe that there is no monetization option that is really off the table. That includes the full range of Free to Play Pay To Win. In my mind, it is only a matter of time, and if it isn't ESO, it will be the next game.

I honestly used to say "but hey at least we have Bethesda" because I felt they were good guys. Since that BE3 where they announced Fallout 4 it's been down hill and I've lost the ability to say that.

Mystrius_Archaion

Turelus wrote: »

Remember to like, favourite and subscribe. If you have your own thoughts on ZOS monetisation leave a comment in the comments section below!

Is this real li....err Youtube?

OrdoHermetica

Violynne wrote: »

Changing gears just a bit as I speak personally, the only thing I despise about the Crown Store is how it treats subscribers.

ESO+ members should have direct access to EVERY ITEM SOLD in the Crown Store, not behind gambling items.

This could probably even entice more people to sub ESO+ just to get the things they want, with the caveat that the moment the sub is closed, so too are the items (much like the craft bag).

Just my two Septims.

Oh, and I went ahead and agreed with you anyway.

This is actually pretty key in my distaste for the Crown Store. I am a subscriber because I want to support the game. I pay for it, every single month, because I know that subs are some of the only steady and reliable sources of the income, and because I know that the more subs they have, the fewer absurd cash grabs they have to rely on in other ways.

But also, as one of those subscribers, I'd really appreciate it if I was treated as a paying customer, thanks. I bought this game at full price and I continue to subscribe to it, so A.) it'd be great if I didn't feel like I was logging into a free-to-play Facebook game every day I log in (especially bad in PTS right now), and B.) I had the option to actually buy the things I want to buy without the artificial scarcity hoops. Because, again, I bought the game; I'm subscribing; and I want to spend even more money in the cash store. Make that easy for me.

If they did that, they'd have yet another perk to offer people considering ESO+, and they'd have a significant part of the core, enduring members of the community - their optional subscribers - much more satisfied with how things are going.

DoctorESO

Turelus wrote: »

So this is part rant, part constructive feedback. You've been warned.

After seeing the showing of the new "boss weapon packs" available in the Crown Store yesterday, I have to ask if there is a game system ZOS' marketing team isn't going monetise as much as possible.

For those not aware of what I am talking about there seems to be packs for sale in the Crown Store which are new items for the Outfit System which change your themed around a boss.
Images courtesy of Alcast.

https://twitter.com/AlcastESO/status/985995846918455296

My gripes with this comes from what could have been an interesting mechanic to bring life back to old content has most likely become another pay to unlock pack (note it's not 100% confirmed these are store only yet).

This isn't the first instance of a new system being done in a way which it can be monetised either, it's not even the only monetisation used for the Outfit System.

List of Monetised Systems.

Housing
Crown only decorations.
Crown Crate only decorations.
Housing slots locked behind subscription.

Transmutation
Additional token slots locked behind subscription.

Outfit System
Outfit slots per character and sold for insane amounts ($14.99 each!)
Crown Store only outfit items (Summerset pre-order, Summerset Crown Store)
Edit: New motif exclusive to Crown Crates and distributed in pages (Thanks to @Carbonised for info later in the thread)

I wouldn't be entirely against the above being in the store if they were better priced ($15 for a single outfit slot usable by a single character!) or something we could still earn in game (Mundus Stones not attainable in game) however it's that sad part of gaming these days where everything is sold for real money rather than being attainable through the gameplay.

Now I understand ZOS is a company, they need to find ways to make money for ESO to continue and that the more money they make means more content and things we love going forwards. But... I can't say seeing the trend above I am really excited for new features which are developed if each one is going to have parts locked behind real money purchases.

I've often made the joke about ESO becoming more like SWTOR and whilst we are far from that this trend of making every new system in a way which it can then be monetised is kind of heading that route.

/endrant

Remember to like, favourite and subscribe. If you have your own thoughts on ZOS monetisation leave a comment in the comments section below!

What's next? Maelstrom Arena Weapons Pack and Dragonstar Arena Weapons Pack? Trials Skin Pack?

Elsonso

OrdoHermetica wrote: »

This is actually pretty key in my distaste for the Crown Store. I am a subscriber because I want to support the game. I pay for it, every single month, because I know that subs are some of the only steady and reliable sources of the income, and because I know that the more subs they have, the fewer absurd cash grabs they have to rely on in other ways.

But also, as one of those subscribers, I'd really appreciate it if I was treated as a paying customer, thanks. I bought this game at full price and I continue to subscribe to it, so A.) it'd be great if I didn't feel like I was logging into a free-to-play Facebook game every day I log in (especially bad in PTS right now), and B.) I had the option to actually buy the things I want to buy without the artificial scarcity hoops. Because, again, I bought the game; I'm subscribing; and I want to spend even more money in the cash store. Make that easy for me.

If they did that, they'd have yet another perk to offer people considering ESO+, and they'd have a significant part of the core, enduring members of the community - their optional subscribers - much more satisfied with how things are going.

I think most people playing the game on a regular basis are ESO Plus. If they did what you suggested, they would probably lose revenue. Any small revenue change that they make to ESO Plus is multiplied by a large number of people. Pretty soon, they are losing a ton of revenue from someone who is already paying them more, today.

OrdoHermetica

lordrichter wrote: »

I think most people playing the game on a regular basis are ESO Plus. If they did what you suggested, they would probably lose revenue. Any small revenue change that they make to ESO Plus is multiplied by a large number of people. Pretty soon, they are losing a ton of revenue from someone who is already paying them more, today.

Mmm... not so sure about that assumption. The fact that the Crown Store is what it is suggests that ESO+ subscribers don't actually make up the bulk of the population - games with more stable subscription bases tend not to have nearly as much emphasis on the cash shop. Plus, anecdotally, I know a whole lot of people who aren't ESO+ subscribers. Pretty rare that they're here on the forums, granted, but I encounter (and play with) people who aren't ESO+ subscribers every day.