Pvp Battlegrounds Going To Be Base Game Now, Please Do Something About Premades

Caleb_Kadesh

Allanm wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

...Snip
Before TESO, i was playing SWTOR for years. The only PvP in that game were battlegrounds. You can guess how sick i am of that BS by now.

Not quite true.
There was at least one PvP area - Outlaws Den on Tatooine and dueling was permitted everywhere outside Sanctuary areas.

It's more than not quite true... There were entire PvP servers. The entire server was open world. It was a blast.

Joy_Division

Caleb_Kadesh wrote: »

SWTOR (Star Wars) ran into this same problem and quickly came up with 2 queues Solo and Group. Right now the queues are pathetic for BG's. When our guild made 3 pre-mades we ran against ourselves over and over. We had fun, but where is everyone else?

I can speak for only myself. There are various reasons why I only ever do BGs is if ask and even then only if the people are solid PvPers.

• Like many people have indicated, I hate fighting against a group I have no shot against. I do think this is more a function of just 4 people on a team collectively being a lot better than the other teams as oppsed to specifically premades, but it's frustrating either way.
• I can't stand playing classes that have been nerfed a million times because of CP in a no CP setting where the justification for all those nerfs is no longer there. No CP does not affect all classes equally.
• I don't like 3 of the game formats. Relic, Crazy King, and Domination are not fun in my opinion because they discourage fighting. I do like Chaos ball, though. Except one one premade team stands in a hard to reach area and is basically unassailable.
• There is no pride in the ranking system. They more measure time played than effectiveness
• The class I play is designed to "stand my ground" and BGs is so much about movement it makes me want to throw my computer out the window.
• Half the time I play, it's not much fun.

Gravord

Heres a tip what to do with premades. Make your own party and quit whinning. If you are too bad and lazy to put an effort of organizing handful of ppl together in a party its your own fault and nobody else that you get farmed.

exeeter702

It should have never been 4v4v4 BGs to begin with. This is such a terrible design for so many reasons it puts me almost at a loss of words and i would give anything to be able to sit down with wheeler and just understand how on earth this was decided on.

Setting aside the rediculous loppsided nature of 3 way objective based small scale instanced pvp and all the issues that inherently brings out, premades were always going to be an issue right from the start, and anyone familiar with with systems like this in mmos smelled the *** from a mile away. Separate queues for premades were never the solution, full stop, period. Queue times would be downright inexcusable and all but destroy and desire for premade groups to even bother since system in place would not only find one other 4 man premade queuing at the same time, but TWO. Player base for bgs is small enough as it is, and BGs becoming part of the base game will not have a significant impact on this since most premade groups are players thay value pvp and likely bought access morrowind just for BGs already. There will be an influx of nee players for sure, but premade queues would still be complete trash.

I repeat, BGs SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN 3 way. They should have been mapped out for two teams of 8 players, with each bg map being its own game mode so you can actually solidify objectives desgined around the geography of the map. A 8v8 map designed around CTF would never logically work on a map designed around KotH. When you establish this standard, it becomes insanely easy to develop objectives that facilitate actual pvp while incentivizing objective play and making sure not spreading out all 8 players on a team all but garuntees a loss (i say this because there are countless morons that seem to think 8v8 would end up being a mess with stacking ults and clumping up which is complete nonsense).

Then you restrict premades to only being able to queue up as a 4 man team at most. Said premade will then only ever be placed in a group with 4 other solos or 2 other duos, or a trio and a solo. Then the matchmaking will prioritize premade groups to match them against. It will first make a pass for any other 4 man premade in queue to place them against, if non then it searches for a trio, then a duo untill the pools of players a full.

When you have a 4 man premade in an 8 man party standard, the advantage is much less reduced and almost never becomes a complete blowout.

In order of best case scenario for premades and general matchmaking with enough players queueing up, your team comps end up such as
4+4
3+1+4
3+3+2
4+2+2

Etc etc.

In 8 man objective based bgs, a premade of 4 defintely has an advantage but not THAT significant of an infulence.

Eso bgs as they currently stand are trash and it doesnt even matter of premades are allowed to dominate.

Sharee

Gravord wrote: »

Heres a tip what to do with premades. Make your own party and quit whinning.

ZOS put a group finder for BGs in the game for a reason: so that even players without a premade can have fun with BGs.
If players using the group finder are not having fun, its a legitimate concern. So take your condescending attitude and shove it.

FloppyTouch

I play early morning no friends or guild members on so I pug its the same story every time when you run into a premade. When it is a pug v pug v pug match you can tell closer scores better action. Same when I can play with my premade v premade its a close game and a lot of fun. No one wants no challenge in battle grounds unless ur just bad and like ur group to feel good about themselves.

Aliyavana

Gravord wrote: »

Heres a tip what to do with premades. Make your own party and quit whinning. If you are too bad and lazy to put an effort of organizing handful of ppl together in a party its your own fault and nobody else that you get farmed.

weird how you call people bad yet you need to be in a premade to farm pugs without a challenge

Troneon

Juju_beans wrote: »

Maybe it should be premade vs premade and another one for pugs.

That is what normal people do....in other games....with a brain....

Solo Que

Duo Que

Group/Ranked etc etc

Kikke

use group finder for dungeon; spends two hours clearing the place because of Mr Snipe Spammer, Mr Light attack master and a healer that did not heal, nor damage any mobs.

Make my own group for same dungeon; spends twelve minutes clearing the place. My friends just plays better than the avg pug, and we can replace the healer with a DD since no one takes damage.

Same shall be said for BGs. use the queue, await pain. Make your group and see the success!

umagon

Back in morrowind beta I mentioned the problem with the premade vs random groups in battle grounds. And they took no action to change it. Which was the deciding factor in me not purchasing the chapter. I have played too many games where premade and random groups were not separated and I know very well how that turns out. Even if they add the battle grounds to the base game I will not play them until that is resolved.

Goshua

Well this is refreshing news, so bored to tears of Cyrodiil and I wasn't going to buy Morrowind just for BG's.

Understand the concerns with pre-mades, was why I didn't really bother when MW was released as it was a predictable issue.

Aliyavana

kikkehs wrote: »

use group finder for dungeon; spends two hours clearing the place because of Mr Snipe Spammer, Mr Light attack master and a healer that did not heal, nor damage any mobs.

Make my own group for same dungeon; spends twelve minutes clearing the place. My friends just plays better than the avg pug, and we can replace the healer with a DD since no one takes damage.

Same shall be said for BGs. use the queue, await pain. Make your group and see the success!

tho in pve you are not queuing aginst other players who are effected and ruining the experience for them, mobs cant complain about being steamrolled so bad analogy

Kikke

aliyavana wrote: »

kikkehs wrote: »

use group finder for dungeon; spends two hours clearing the place because of Mr Snipe Spammer, Mr Light attack master and a healer that did not heal, nor damage any mobs.

Make my own group for same dungeon; spends twelve minutes clearing the place. My friends just plays better than the avg pug, and we can replace the healer with a DD since no one takes damage.

Same shall be said for BGs. use the queue, await pain. Make your group and see the success!

tho in pve you are not queuing aginst other players who are effected and ruining the experience for them, mobs cant complain about being steamrolled so bad analogy

When sub 5k dps queue vet dungeons and I have too drag them trough the place, yes, it does effect a player. Me. And maybe even more people in the grp. So again, my statement stands.

And If you did not get the point than you must be dumber than what I expected. But of course! People that cry about premades are the same people that make a "premade", joins a BG and get stomped by pugs and premades alike. the few BGs I've seen with PuG vs PuG vs PuG was a disaster. people ran around like headless chickens, going for kills in an objective based game. Noone went for a win and the game timed out at 200 or somehwat points for team nr1.

PuGs DO NOT DO TACTICAL FIGHTING.

If you find this fun... well, you will be farmed. learn tactics, group play, team synergy and objectives and you might win aswell.

- Also fun fact, I bet that 60% of all the "premades" people are complaining about are Just friends teamed up before the queue, and stomp them because.... well... the avg ESO player is... uhm, bad?

ToRelax

Imo, some kind of matchmaking based on player skill and groupsize would be more important than strictly seperating queues... though likely a lot more difficult to implement, so I wouldn't mind to see just seperated queues for now.

Tasear

I want people punished for not playing the objectives. Not everything is death match.

Gravord

Sharee wrote: »

Gravord wrote: »

Heres a tip what to do with premades. Make your own party and quit whinning.

ZOS put a group finder for BGs in the game for a reason: so that even players without a premade can have fun with BGs.
If players using the group finder are not having fun, its a legitimate concern. So take your condescending attitude and shove it.

ZOS also put group finder for dungeons, have fun doing Bloodrot vet and similar with ppl you get that way. Putting effort into organize team gives profits, simple as that. So shove it and stop slacking, put effort.

aliyavana wrote: »

Gravord wrote: »

Heres a tip what to do with premades. Make your own party and quit whinning. If you are too bad and lazy to put an effort of organizing handful of ppl together in a party its your own fault and nobody else that you get farmed.

weird how you call people bad yet you need to be in a premade to farm pugs without a challenge

Dont have premade, just not a whiny *** blaming others for own lazyness and demanding making everything easier so no matter how much you suck or slack its still doable for you.

bardx86

Nihility42 wrote: »

Arkangeloski wrote: »

Easy... get with friends talk builds and strategies and get a solid group. I do understand pre-mades have the advantage due to the comunication aspect and group synergy (wich is the only advantage) But what you are asking is to nerf group play in a group based game mode... that is f**** bonkers!! i know it can be anoying lol but nobody is blocking you from forming your own squad, if you want to play solo be ready for rng based groups with no mics no objectives and just playing every single mode like a pvp death match lol. Good luck mate honestly, but i dont see anything chaging in the near future.

Could you explain to me how matching premades with other premades is a nerf to group based gameplay? As someone who plays on premades in BGs sometimes, I would LOVE for that to happen so that you could have challenging games and not just steamroll noobs. This change would help premade groups, it would help solo PUGs. The only people it would be a nerf for is premade groups farming PUG scrubs for AP, but *** those guys anyway.

I can totally tell you. What if 3-4 of friends get together and want to play. We are not the level of premades that you have problem with. We are casual. You will then force us into the same crap game you hate. Separating the game will not fix the issue.

Goshua

Watching most twitching pre-made groups its actually them focused on killing more than objectives, after they have a lead to live off of course. After that the other teams either carry on trying to get objectives or just waiting for it to be over.

Kikke

But, They could've added a rating system to get the min/maxed PvP teams out of the random queue.
tho they allready have some form off ranking with theire points (but we all agree that it's pretty much broken) xD

Also First how about we let summerset hit, see the influx off eventual new players into the BG world, Before we scream for changes shall we?

bardx86

Gravord wrote: »

Heres a tip what to do with premades. Make your own party and quit whinning. If you are too bad and lazy to put an effort of organizing handful of ppl together in a party its your own fault and nobody else that you get farmed.

exactly.

bardx86

exeeter702 wrote: »

It should have never been 4v4v4 BGs to begin with. This is such a terrible design for so many reasons it puts me almost at a loss of words and i would give anything to be able to sit down with wheeler and just understand how on earth this was decided on.

Setting aside the rediculous loppsided nature of 3 way objective based small scale instanced pvp and all the issues that inherently brings out, premades were always going to be an issue right from the start, and anyone familiar with with systems like this in mmos smelled the *** from a mile away. Separate queues for premades were never the solution, full stop, period. Queue times would be downright inexcusable and all but destroy and desire for premade groups to even bother since system in place would not only find one other 4 man premade queuing at the same time, but TWO. Player base for bgs is small enough as it is, and BGs becoming part of the base game will not have a significant impact on this since most premade groups are players thay value pvp and likely bought access morrowind just for BGs already. There will be an influx of nee players for sure, but premade queues would still be complete trash.

I repeat, BGs SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN 3 way. They should have been mapped out for two teams of 8 players, with each bg map being its own game mode so you can actually solidify objectives desgined around the geography of the map. A 8v8 map designed around CTF would never logically work on a map designed around KotH. When you establish this standard, it becomes insanely easy to develop objectives that facilitate actual pvp while incentivizing objective play and making sure not spreading out all 8 players on a team all but garuntees a loss (i say this because there are countless morons that seem to think 8v8 would end up being a mess with stacking ults and clumping up which is complete nonsense).

Then you restrict premades to only being able to queue up as a 4 man team at most. Said premade will then only ever be placed in a group with 4 other solos or 2 other duos, or a trio and a solo. Then the matchmaking will prioritize premade groups to match them against. It will first make a pass for any other 4 man premade in queue to place them against, if non then it searches for a trio, then a duo untill the pools of players a full.

When you have a 4 man premade in an 8 man party standard, the advantage is much less reduced and almost never becomes a complete blowout.

In order of best case scenario for premades and general matchmaking with enough players queueing up, your team comps end up such as
4+4
3+1+4
3+3+2
4+2+2

Etc etc.

In 8 man objective based bgs, a premade of 4 defintely has an advantage but not THAT significant of an infulence.

Eso bgs as they currently stand are trash and it doesnt even matter of premades are allowed to dominate.

Dude the best part of BG is it is 3 way.

Gravord

My topic from January how to fix Battlegrounds.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/390180/battlegrounds-changes-that-would-make-them-way-more-popular-and-enjoyable-to-play#latest

Aliyavana

kikkehs wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

kikkehs wrote: »

use group finder for dungeon; spends two hours clearing the place because of Mr Snipe Spammer, Mr Light attack master and a healer that did not heal, nor damage any mobs.

Make my own group for same dungeon; spends twelve minutes clearing the place. My friends just plays better than the avg pug, and we can replace the healer with a DD since no one takes damage.

Same shall be said for BGs. use the queue, await pain. Make your group and see the success!

tho in pve you are not queuing aginst other players who are effected and ruining the experience for them, mobs cant complain about being steamrolled so bad analogy

When sub 5k dps queue vet dungeons and I have too drag them trough the place, yes, it does effect a player. Me. And maybe even more people in the grp. So again, my statement stands.

And If you did not get the point than you must be dumber than what I expected. But of course! People that cry about premades are the same people that make a "premade", joins a BG and get stomped by pugs and premades alike. the few BGs I've seen with PuG vs PuG vs PuG was a disaster. people ran around like headless chickens, going for kills in an objective based game. Noone went for a win and the game timed out at 200 or somehwat points for team nr1.

PuGs DO NOT DO TACTICAL FIGHTING.

If you find this fun... well, you will be farmed. learn tactics, group play, team synergy and objectives and you might win aswell.

- Also fun fact, I bet that 60% of all the "premades" people are complaining about are Just friends teamed up before the queue, and stomp them because.... well... the avg ESO player is... uhm, bad?

"And If you did not get the point than you must be dumber than what I expected." Right back at you

Arkangeloski

Nihility42 wrote: »

Arkangeloski wrote: »

Easy... get with friends talk builds and strategies and get a solid group. I do understand pre-mades have the advantage due to the comunication aspect and group synergy (wich is the only advantage) But what you are asking is to nerf group play in a group based game mode... that is f**** bonkers!! i know it can be anoying lol but nobody is blocking you from forming your own squad, if you want to play solo be ready for rng based groups with no mics no objectives and just playing every single mode like a pvp death match lol. Good luck mate honestly, but i dont see anything chaging in the near future.

Could you explain to me how matching premades with other premades is a nerf to group based gameplay? As someone who plays on premades in BGs sometimes, I would LOVE for that to happen so that you could have challenging games and not just steamroll noobs. This change would help premade groups, it would help solo PUGs. The only people it would be a nerf for is premade groups farming PUG scrubs for AP, but *** those guys anyway.

well are you the one steam rolling pugs? or you are the one getting steamrolled? Listen its not going to happen... If u dont want to get smashed get a group... if the other team its full of unprepared pugs well son, their loss your gain. Its so funny back in the day when there was no "bg's" People where begging for a smaller scale pvp due to the zerg... we got it and now guess what? im not staisfied because now there is pre mades ruining my fun. And yes i was wrong its not a nerf but more unnesessary work that can be spent fixing real problems like lag and preformance issues in general, but instead let me sit here and nag about pre mades because im a special little snoflake lol.

Goshua

.

Saturn

Another problem is that if you requeue after finishing a bg you get queued with the exact same people, unless someone doesn't queue up. This makes it seem like there's only 12 people actually doing bgs, and it shows how poorly designed the queueing system is. I mean we all already know it's bad, but I wish they would at least say they are looking into making it better, instead of pretending it works as intended.

Maryal

Maybe the reason BGs is being added to the base game is to get more players involved in BGs ... something that needs to happen before the queuing system can be changed to allow pug group v pug group / premades vs premades.

zyk

Premade groups want this too. There's a GvG scene waiting to explode if players didn't have to jump through hoops to arrange them in Cyrodiil.

Go beyond adding a premade queue and give us the ability to host GvG matches with spectator support too.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler ESO PVP needs GvG support!

Aliyavana

zyk wrote: »

Premade groups want this too. There's a GvG scene waiting to happen if players didn't have to jump through hoops to arrange them in Cyrodiil.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler ESO PVP needs GvG support!

exactly, premade groups that are tired of easy farming ap without resistance want an actual challenge

exeeter702

bardx86 wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

It should have never been 4v4v4 BGs to begin with. This is such a terrible design for so many reasons it puts me almost at a loss of words and i would give anything to be able to sit down with wheeler and just understand how on earth this was decided on.

Setting aside the rediculous loppsided nature of 3 way objective based small scale instanced pvp and all the issues that inherently brings out, premades were always going to be an issue right from the start, and anyone familiar with with systems like this in mmos smelled the *** from a mile away. Separate queues for premades were never the solution, full stop, period. Queue times would be downright inexcusable and all but destroy and desire for premade groups to even bother since system in place would not only find one other 4 man premade queuing at the same time, but TWO. Player base for bgs is small enough as it is, and BGs becoming part of the base game will not have a significant impact on this since most premade groups are players thay value pvp and likely bought access morrowind just for BGs already. There will be an influx of nee players for sure, but premade queues would still be complete trash.

I repeat, BGs SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN 3 way. They should have been mapped out for two teams of 8 players, with each bg map being its own game mode so you can actually solidify objectives desgined around the geography of the map. A 8v8 map designed around CTF would never logically work on a map designed around KotH. When you establish this standard, it becomes insanely easy to develop objectives that facilitate actual pvp while incentivizing objective play and making sure not spreading out all 8 players on a team all but garuntees a loss (i say this because there are countless morons that seem to think 8v8 would end up being a mess with stacking ults and clumping up which is complete nonsense).

Then you restrict premades to only being able to queue up as a 4 man team at most. Said premade will then only ever be placed in a group with 4 other solos or 2 other duos, or a trio and a solo. Then the matchmaking will prioritize premade groups to match them against. It will first make a pass for any other 4 man premade in queue to place them against, if non then it searches for a trio, then a duo untill the pools of players a full.

When you have a 4 man premade in an 8 man party standard, the advantage is much less reduced and almost never becomes a complete blowout.

In order of best case scenario for premades and general matchmaking with enough players queueing up, your team comps end up such as
4+4
3+1+4
3+3+2
4+2+2

Etc etc.

In 8 man objective based bgs, a premade of 4 defintely has an advantage but not THAT significant of an infulence.

Eso bgs as they currently stand are trash and it doesnt even matter of premades are allowed to dominate.

Dude the best part of BG is it is 3 way.

"Dude", it is not. It turns the entire notion into a casual party game mode. I wont get into the reasons why 3 way pvp format in small scale is absolutely terrible from an actual game design standpoint. Randoms running around enjoying the random chaos, sure they love the 3 way.