Pvp Battlegrounds Going To Be Base Game Now, Please Do Something About Premades

Aliyavana

Please do not move this to battlegrounds subforum where this will die, please keep this in general so that the devs can see Edit: ty zos for killing feedback on this thread

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/26355
"We want everybody to be able to enjoy the fast-paced action of the PvP Battlegrounds, so we're making them part of ESO's base game. This means that when ESO: Summerset and Update 18 launch, you'll be able to queue for and play Battlegrounds, even if you don't own ESO: Morrowind! Even better, with Update 18, we're also introducing new daily PvP Battlegrounds rewards, giving you even more reasons to enjoy the 4v4v4 arenas. As a reminder, there are currently five different Battlegrounds game modes: Team Deathmatch, Capture the Relic, Domination, Chaosball, and Crazy Kings. There are also six unique Battlegrounds maps: Ald Carac, Ularra, Foyada Quarry, Arcane University, Deeping Drome, and Mor Khazgur. Now more than ever, the Battlegrounds are where you want to be for deadly, small-scale PvP matches. "

Anotherone773 wrote: »

KiraTsukasa wrote: »

You know, people whine about this nonstop on the Bungie forums. It's a team game, you make your team, you work together, you win. It's not a hard concept. I don't get why anyone thinks a bunch of lone wolves running off doing whatever they want should dominate teams working together. It's stupid. If you're tired of getting steamrolled, stop being a lone wolf, get a team together, and get good.

Premades have the following advantages:
* Can use builds that compliment each other. So they can work basically "raid buffed".
* Communication. They often have voice communication that the entire team is in. This alone offers a significant advantage.
* You know each members strengths and weaknesses before the BG even loads.

The whole purpose of group finder is for people who dont have premades in ANY game. And im pretty sure every BG ive been in i went through GROUP FINDER.

I dont care if i get a bad team. That guy that plays every match as deathmatch and could careless about objectives. That other one that runs around aimlessly not close to any objective or player. The one that runs by a flag but not even through its circle to start the transfer...just a couple meters outside of it. All of that is fine. But that team needs to be put against a group with similar problems. IE: One that is made up of random players. Not against a coordinated buffed premade.

Im pretty sure the only people who actually do battleground and like premades mixed with full PUG are the ones who farm them. I have yet to meet one solo PUGGER, again in any game, that thinks its a good idea or fair. Its a balance flaw in every game with BGS, and its one of the few "features" that ZOS borrowed from other games. They couldnt borrow something like awesome battlegrounds or creative objectives... nope it had to be lets mix premade with random.

As a reminder, please do something about premade groups, the excuse was that the population wasn't going to be big enough for premades and pugs to be separated but now battlegrounds are going to be base game so now the population is going to be healthy enough for separate ques. If you do not separate the ques then you will alienate and shoo away potential pvpers who are going to not going to want to be steam rolled by a coordinated group of players and so battlegrounds will reship dead. The premades that want a challenge want this change but the premades that want no resistance in their ap farms will say "this is a learn to socialize and a get gud issue"

Spacemonkey wrote: »

OR

it should just look for 12 players, group or pug, and mix the teams before the match starts.
RIP premades, ; playing AGAINST your buddies is fun too.

The matchmaking games I played allowed and did this since it balanced teams based on player rankings, so often the 2 best players of the group would end up on opposing teams. Sometimes its frustrating , sometimes its great. And when they end up on the same team, its because you KNOW your in for a challenging match vs unknowns.

This I can live with, it would be fun to play against the friends you que with

Aliyavana

How can anyone support this? Unless you enjoy steamrolling pugs with your coordinated group and enjoy the free ap at the cost of scaring away potential pvpers whom many pvpers already complain about the pvp population as it is



So many premade teams... After a while my team just gave up and played the rest of the match like deathmatch as they felt it was useless to even try to attempt to get the ball from the premade team. Is making players feel like avoiding the objective all together what zenimax wants?





Edit: funny that l2p and l2socialize is the counterarguement from the premade defenders, I KNOW I lold too


Oh look that same premade is running today again match to match I meet them again and again, zos please look into making the bg environment fun for everyone

Oh look another one

Juju_beans

Maybe it should be premade vs premade and another one for pugs.

Irylia

Should only match vs other premades of 4 when grouped.

Solo or duo should then be the only other options for random casual play matches. No trip q as this bleeds into matches where teams are all solo players and it’s essentially getting premade steam rolled. And q’ing into 4 man premades with 1 random is just a handicap.

Then when they want to introduce mmr keep it solely to premade battles and based on game types.

Have the mmr be tied to the guild name that you enter premades under. Even if not all players are members but potentially friends. This way various members in the guild can represent the team mmr by assigning the guild of choice as the designated mmr they are trying to improve and they will in return face similarly ranked teams.

Alaztor91

100% agree, I have nothing against people wanting to team up with friends or guildies and queue up as a team, but they should be matched against other premades, not against people who solo-q.

Pretty much every decent PvP game with matchmaking has separate queues for premades and solo/duo, so hopefully now that BG's are going to be base game and have a higher population ZOS can add this functionality.

Juju_beans

It's a heck of a lot more fun when it's pug vs pug group.
But it's not so much fun when you have a pug group against an organized group who are probably on discord.

Spacemonkey

OR

it should just look for 12 players, group or pug, and mix the teams before the match starts.
RIP premades, ; playing AGAINST your buddies is fun too.

The matchmaking games I played allowed and did this since it balanced teams based on player rankings, so often the 2 best players of the group would end up on opposing teams. Sometimes its frustrating , sometimes its great. And when they end up on the same team, its because you KNOW your in for a challenging match vs unknowns.

Jade1986

Juju_beans wrote: »

Maybe it should be premade vs premade and another one for pugs.

This is actually the perfect time for a separate queue for pugs and group now. I really hope they do it so everyone can enjoy it, not just pre madea.

Seraphayel

I really hope they're introducing separate queues but I don't think so. And I don't know the reason for this. Are they ignorant or just unwilling? They can't be unaware of the issues because they're voiced since Morrowind hit PTS.

Getting farmed as a pug group is no fun. And there's nothing you can do about it. I had this situation yesterday (again). A premade group with totally overpowered and perfectly equipped characters that were mostly unkillable. They just occupied our base and we either had to stay in our spawn zone or just jump down and getting killed within 5s to just repeat the same procedure. They had two DPS focusing and you couldn't do anything about it. You died. Every time. Even with a healer at your back. Their damage was so incredible that there was basically nothing you could do except leaving the battleground or camping in your safe zone.

Is that fun? Do you really want to discourage battleground newcomers by premades farming pugs? The number of battleground players is already quite low.

Jade1986

Spacemonkey wrote: »

OR

it should just look for 12 players, group or pug, and mix the teams before the match starts.
RIP premades, ; playing AGAINST your buddies is fun too.

The matchmaking games I played allowed and did this since it balanced teams based on player rankings, so often the 2 best players of the group would end up on opposing teams. Sometimes its frustrating , sometimes its great. And when they end up on the same team, its because you KNOW your in for a challenging match vs unknowns.

That's a really good idea.

Checkmath

so basically the game needs to differentiate between you are queuing as solo player or in a duo, then you will be part of a PUG batttleground round or if you are queueing as three man group or full group, then you would count as a premade group an while participate in a premade round.
this surely would help out to make most of battleground content be more pleasure for most of the players, since we can choose between enemy groups and somewhat choose between difficulty as well
still there is the issue about battleground types, since not everybody enjoys every type of battleground. this was topic of several threads and should be included here too.

Nihility42

This game desperately needs separe solo and premade queues. And it even more desperately needs to properly implement some sort of matchmatching rating system. Hell, overhaul all of PVP scoring while you're at it. The current Cyrodil and BG scoring have nothing do with how good you are and everything to do with who plays the most during the given leaderboard period. It's sad.

Checkmath

cyrodiil will see some changes with summerset. AP will not be distrubuted as before like everyone gets the same amount when capturing keep X or defending ressource Y. ZoS somehow wants to implement a system rewarding the participation in a pvp action. so leeching will be less rewarding in the future. but somehow battlegrounds were not mentioned in the pvp changes with morrowind. but i agree, differentiation between solo queue, duo, triple or full man group is necessary, also some kind of matchmkaing dependent on the weekly ranks. but this probably is too much to implement.

MyKillv2.0

This should have been a thing a long time ago.

I have been on both sides of the equation. Neither side is fun. I have been in the solo que many times and keep getting steam rolled by pre-mades. I have also be apart of the pre made groups when the guild runs events there. What I found odd was that since I ran into a lot of pre made groups when I que'd solo... I found it odd that when I que'd as a group, I faced few (a rare one or two) pre made groups. I think we had four or five groups going one night as a guild event and encountered once where guild 4 man group ran into another guild four man group. Odd, how the pairing works. I doubt it is on purpose but it almost force feeds solo que's to pre-made groups.

Battlegrounds desperates needs seperate ques. For both parties. Solo que's just want an even playing field. MOST pre made groups want to face a challenge. When the two forces face one another, neither side is happy in the long run.

As funny as it sounds, the best BGs ever were was the three weeks after Morrowind when the que was bugged.

Gnortranermara

Why? Just make your own group. Pugging is a choice, and if you don't like the consequences of that choice then stop doing it.

Drachenfier

Spacemonkey wrote: »

OR

it should just look for 12 players, group or pug, and mix the teams before the match starts.
RIP premades, ; playing AGAINST your buddies is fun too.

The matchmaking games I played allowed and did this since it balanced teams based on player rankings, so often the 2 best players of the group would end up on opposing teams. Sometimes its frustrating , sometimes its great. And when they end up on the same team, its because you KNOW your in for a challenging match vs unknowns.

Hey that's a good idea

Juju_beans

Seraphayel wrote: »

I really hope they're introducing separate queues but I don't think so. And I don't know the reason for this. Are they ignorant or just unwilling? They can't be unaware of the issues because they're voiced since Morrowind hit PTS.

Getting farmed as a pug group is no fun. And there's nothing you can do about it. I had this situation yesterday (again). A premade group with totally overpowered and perfectly equipped characters that were mostly unkillable. They just occupied our base and we either had to stay in our spawn zone or just jump down and getting killed within 5s to just repeat the same procedure. They had two DPS focusing and you couldn't do anything about it. You died. Every time. Even with a healer at your back. Their damage was so incredible that there was basically nothing you could do except leaving the battleground or camping in your safe zone.

Is that fun? Do you really want to discourage battleground newcomers by premades farming pugs? The number of battleground players is already quite low.

One of the reasons I stopped playing the small group bg's in wow.
And I had been playing wow bg's since they first came out.
The smaller ones got over run with premades so I just ended up only queuing for the 40 man bg and stopped playing the others.

Drachenfier

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Why? Just make your own group. Pugging is a choice, and if you don't like the consequences of that choice then stop doing it.

Steamrolling randoms is where it's at, amirite?

where's that damn eyeroll emote

Nihility42

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Why? Just make your own group. Pugging is a choice, and if you don't like the consequences of that choice then stop doing it.

The same could be said for plenty of things. That doesn't mean adding an option that will make the experience better for both sides, the premades and the PUGs, isn't a good idea.

And is making a premade really a better option than going solo? Then you just get bored steamrolling the unorganized solos instead. The point is that there is a balance between too easy and too hard that is fun. This balance is more easily found when grouping premades together with other premades and PUGs together with other PUGs.

IcyDeadPeople

Irylia wrote: »

Have the mmr be tied to the guild name that you enter premades under. Even if not all players are members but potentially friends. This way various members in the guild can represent the team mmr by assigning the guild of choice as the designated mmr they are trying to improve and they will in return face similarly ranked teams.

Good point Irylia, this is important.

We had been doing a lot of private guild battlegrounds with all three teams assigned ourselves from our own guild, simply by queuing all 3 teams simultaneously. Due to the problem of premades vs randoms, this was a really fun alternative, as we were able to balance the teams ourselves to make sure the matches were fair and even beginners had a fun time.

However, since the battlegrounds AP got boosted a lot last patch, suddenly there are a lot more people in the queue and even if we queue all 3 of our own guild teams simultaneously, two teams get into the match, but the third team invariably ends up sent to separate match, getting replaced by random team from outside the guild.

If there is a way to tweak the queue system to favor people in the same guild, it would be much appreciated. Perhaps even let us make a group of 12 and queue all three teams this way.

ArchMikem

Either force it to be all PuGs, or separate the premades from the solo queue. Ali and I have to agree on something sometimes.

Sharee

This is why have been avoiding BG's completely even tho i owned morrowind from day one(and i'm a pure PvP person, by the way).

Before TESO, i was playing SWTOR for years. The only PvP in that game were battlegrounds. You can guess how sick i am of that BS by now.

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Why? Just make your own group. Pugging is a choice, and if you don't like the consequences of that choice then stop doing it.

Pugging should not have "consequences". Its not a sin to be punished. It shoud be FUN. It is not.

Arkangeloski

Easy... get with friends talk builds and strategies and get a solid group. I do understand pre-mades have the advantage due to the comunication aspect and group synergy (wich is the only advantage) But what you are asking is to nerf group play in a group based game mode... that is f**** bonkers!! i know it can be anoying lol but nobody is blocking you from forming your own squad, if you want to play solo be ready for rng based groups with no mics no objectives and just playing every single mode like a pvp death match lol. Good luck mate honestly, but i dont see anything chaging in the near future.

Nihility42

Arkangeloski wrote: »

Easy... get with friends talk builds and strategies and get a solid group. I do understand pre-mades have the advantage due to the comunication aspect and group synergy (wich is the only advantage) But what you are asking is to nerf group play in a group based game mode... that is f**** bonkers!! i know it can be anoying lol but nobody is blocking you from forming your own squad, if you want to play solo be ready for rng based groups with no mics no objectives and just playing every single mode like a pvp death match lol. Good luck mate honestly, but i dont see anything chaging in the near future.

Could you explain to me how matching premades with other premades is a nerf to group based gameplay? As someone who plays on premades in BGs sometimes, I would LOVE for that to happen so that you could have challenging games and not just steamroll noobs. This change would help premade groups, it would help solo PUGs. The only people it would be a nerf for is premade groups farming PUG scrubs for AP, but *** those guys anyway.

Sharee

Arkangeloski wrote: »

Easy... get with friends talk builds and strategies and get a solid group.

If only way to have fun in BG's full of premades is to make one yourself, then what's the point of having a group finder for BG's?

Apache_Kid

This is like the 4th thread you've made about this recently.

I solo queue into BGs the majority of the time I play and have won many matches. Very rarely will i come in last. Have beaten plenty of pre-mades with a Pug group. There is nothing wrong with people playing with friends.

BGs being base game doesn't necessarily mean that there will be enough players in to allow for multiple queues. The people still need to play. It almost always takes me a few minutes to find a match when I'm solo-queing and there is only 1 queue. What will my search times look like with multiple queues? I like the one queue because it's going to put me into a match as fast as possible.

Let them see what the population of BGs is like after this change. If they feel there is enough players maybe we will get more than 1 queue.

Sekero

Sharee wrote: »

...Snip
Before TESO, i was playing SWTOR for years. The only PvP in that game were battlegrounds. You can guess how sick i am of that BS by now.

Not quite true.
There was at least one PvP area - Outlaws Den on Tatooine and dueling was permitted everywhere outside Sanctuary areas.

Sharee

Allanm wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

...Snip
Before TESO, i was playing SWTOR for years. The only PvP in that game were battlegrounds. You can guess how sick i am of that BS by now.

Not quite true.
There was at least one PvP area - Outlaws Den on Tatooine and dueling was permitted everywhere outside Sanctuary areas.

I was talking about dedicated PvP, not the odd encounter here or there. If you logged into the game with the intent to spend an evening PvP-ing, you had battlegrounds as the only real option.

Sekero

If you say so.......

joaaocaampos

People like long queues. The same has happened with the Dungeons, placing level cap. And now this.

Caleb_Kadesh

SWTOR (Star Wars) ran into this same problem and quickly came up with 2 queues Solo and Group. Right now the queues are pathetic for BG's. When our guild made 3 pre-mades we ran against ourselves over and over. We had fun, but where is everyone else?