Every Build Can Use a Monster Set with Summerset!

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Not gonna lie, my head just exploded.

I am not opposed to this in theory, but this is going to create a lot of balance issues that I hope they are up to handling.

It also seems to be a nerf to any Master, VMA, Asylum weapon. These are strong, but most arent 5th piece bonus strong. It wont matter matter too much if its just a back bar weapon I suppose, but this will be interesting no doubt. I think the first and foremost this will be a buff to magic users, which admittedly is needed. It also might open the possibility of sustain sets actually working their way into meta PVE builds.

Camb0Sl1ce

I don't know if its been asked yet I just skimmed through, but will everything be retroactive or will I have to farm moondancer staves again for the 2 piece set bonus?

Beardimus

Nestor wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

The testers avoid any questions regarding vMA and AS weapons for some reason. Perhaps they are not allowed to name what's the point of using these weapons anymore.

More we don't think there is anything to really discuss. They were there, and the Theorycrafters that were present were using them on some of the builds they were trying and other stuff too. All the numbers they were generating were on par with each other.

Don't know why when more choices are added to how you build your character it automatically means other things now suck.

I appreciate your point @nestor and its a good thing on the whole, I'm ok with it for PvE, however i think the change offers less options, as the knock on impact to DW as ive said. It basically means all magika users need to be staffs.

I know it's niche, and I'm not saying its a bad thing for 2H to count as 2 slots - it's long over due, I'm not being ungrateful, but killing off a playstyle is less options not more. And i do fear balance implications

And hey, this patch seems about catering to niche ideals like Sorc tanks and DK healing so they do want us to all play how we want. Unless ur a DW Mag fan boy is my point.

jaws343

Beardimus wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

The testers avoid any questions regarding vMA and AS weapons for some reason. Perhaps they are not allowed to name what's the point of using these weapons anymore.

More we don't think there is anything to really discuss. They were there, and the Theorycrafters that were present were using them on some of the builds they were trying and other stuff too. All the numbers they were generating were on par with each other.

Don't know why when more choices are added to how you build your character it automatically means other things now suck.

I appreciate your point @nestor and its a good thing on the whole, I'm ok with it for PvE, however i think the change offers less options, as the knock on impact to DW as ive said. It basically means all magika users need to be staffs.

I know it's niche, and I'm not saying its a bad thing for 2H to count as 2 slots - it's long over due, I'm not being ungrateful, but killing off a playstyle is less options not more. And i do fear balance implications

And hey, this patch seems about catering to niche ideals like Sorc tanks and DK healing so they do want us to all play how we want. Unless ur a DW Mag fan boy is my point.

I am not sure I would consider it killing off a play-style though. Two swords give a magic user 5% damage for all attacks. A fire staff gives you 8% only for single target abilities. It is still a trade-off either way. And, if anything, it opens build possibilities instead of arbitrarily forcing you to run 2 swords to take advantage of a second set bonus.

SydneyGrey

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

It also seems to be a nerf to any Master, VMA, Asylum weapon. These are strong, but most arent 5th piece bonus strong.

Buffing characters that don't have Master, VMA or Asylum weapons does not "nerf" those weapons. It just means people who don't have those weapons will be a bit stronger. That's not the same as nerfing those weapons. You'll still be just as strong as you were before. Just because other people will be stronger doesn't mean that your DPS will suddenly drop. It just means that other characters will be able to catch up to you a little bit on DPS and not be so far behind.

ANGEL_BtVS

josiahva wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Not true...if you are using and ice staff as your sole tanking weapon(NOT ideal, I do NOT recommend that idea) then you will be required to slot inner fire or one of its morphs for those times you need faster taunt....but then you run into the real problem with ice staff as a sole tanking weapon...the taunt does not de-buff, so you have to find some other way to apply major fracture and major breach...you will lose access to the only non-class reflect in the game...as well as access to the ult-generating heroic slash...AND you will have no way to generate stamina through heavy attacks(unless your backbar is a 2 hander or bow) which a tank still needs to dodge roll and sprint...in other words...you gimp youself...you will not be on a par with a 1H&S. However, this change will allow my current tank build of 1H&S front bar with ice staff backbar to be marginally more useful(I don't lose much utility when I swap to the Ice staff as is, but I wont lose any at all with this change)

Just so you know, all the Testers, had the same opinion on Ice Staffs and the Taunt thing. Which was an overwhelming no to Taunts or at least make it a Morph choice. The Devs were kind of nodding their heads. So, maybe we will get our Ice Staffs back. Maybe.

I will bet not one of the testers actually plays a tank with a back-bar ice staff. I love the extra tools it brings to the table...I dont mind them taking it away from the ice-staff as long as they give us another ranged magicka tanking weapon to replace it...otherwise its a nerf to PvE tanks that isnt needed. Give me an alteration staff with the same skills and you can have your sub-par ice staff back as DPS and people will continue to not use it for that function. This is just the thing..people complain about the ice staff not being a DPS weapon...but long before they reworked it as a tank weapon no one used it for DPS...its always been flame or lightning, and unless they majorly rework the ice staff and drop the focus on CC, it will continue to be ignored. DPS don't care about CC. Why use a CC staff when you can choose an AoE or single target staff instead? Your tank will take care of the CC after all. I don't see the ice staff being viable unless they drop the CC element from it entirely...except as it is...a tanking weapon.

If they change the ice staff back to being a dps-focused weapon, I am quite sure they will also completely rework ice as an element. Perhaps with a focus on inflicting crit damage.

Hurbster

I don't actually have any monster items apart from the the one you get with the free key at 43, i guess I could buy some from the golden vendor.

Surak73

Morgul667 wrote: »

Seems cool but what about VMA and asylum 2H / staff ? seems useless now ?

VMA on front bar is already useless (unless you have blockade on frontbar, of course...). So you can use on front bar a set where 5p are not always needed: let's say, for a sorc, Mechanical acuity front staff and 3 jewels, 5 armour netch and valkyin monster, with VMA staff on back bar.

As for VMA 2H, Master staff and Asylum staff, however, this seems to be a nerf indeed.

Tasear

Time to buff healing monster helms yes?!

I like earthgore, sentiental (4k stamina to mutiple allies), troll king.

ArchMikem

rhapsodious wrote: »

mzprx wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

2 Handed Weapons now count as two slots

what is your source on that?

Nestor went to ZOS to playtest.

I'm really excited about this. So many changes here that streamline the game or make more builds viable. Gonna hold off on final judgment until I get on the PTS, but I'm looking forward to PAX!

This can ONLY be a good thing, and people believing otherwise frustrate me. For the longest time my Staff characters have been forced to go without that second 5th piece that Dualwield takes for granted.

June is going to be a good month.

Subversus

Turelus wrote: »

Going to change things a lot that's for sure.

I like it in some ways, dislike it in others. I guess I shouldn't complain as it's a buff to my MagBlade though.

Magblade got shafted but good thing you see the light sight in all of this. Someone has to.

ToRelax

So many players opposed to any change, casting judgement before having all the information or even thought things through properly.

I'm very excited, it's not a nerf for me despite using Master's staff (and for now, planning on keeping it that way) and it certainly won't make me OP either. It opens up more options, especiall together with jewelry crafting, both changes I'd hoped for since this game came out. It doesn't nerf anyone. Relax.

Also you dualwield Sorcs, the reason dual wield hasn't been on par with destro sorc in PvP is because of the lack of considerable instant damage. Destro sorcs have been using front/back bar sets for a long time now.
You will however find a serious buff in Rune Cage, which apparently will deal damage when broken out of.

b.bredfeldtub17_ESO

FakeFox wrote: »

Yeah great, even less thought going into builds now.

Less thought how?

More viable options means more diversity, means people can pick and choose what they want, means they're thinking about what they LIKE versus just following some alcast meta build and disregarding everything else because performance outweighs literally everything else in the game...

Nestor

Dracane wrote: »

I will bet not one of the testers actually plays a tank with a back-bar ice staff. I love the extra tools it brings to the table...I dont mind them taking it away from the ice-staff as long as they give us another ranged magicka tanking weapon to replace it...otherwise its a nerf to PvE tanks that isnt needed. Give me an alteration staff with the same skills and you can have your sub-par ice staff back as DPS and people will continue to not use it for that function. This is just the thing..people complain about the ice staff not being a DPS weapon...but long before they reworked it as a tank weapon no one used it for DPS...its always been flame or lightning, and unless they majorly rework the ice staff and drop the focus on CC, it will continue to be ignored. DPS don't care about CC. Why use a CC staff when you can choose an AoE or single target staff instead? Your tank will take care of the CC after all. I don't see the ice staff being viable unless they drop the CC element from it entirely...except as it is...a tanking weapon.

That is why I think it should be a Morph with one choice to be a Taunt, the other to be DPS related. And, all Staffs (Staves) have CC.

One thing to remember, they are working to make all classes be viable for all roles. So, I see a migration to each of the current class lines being set up to serve each of the roles. To an extent. So, if they fully realize the dream, you won't need the Ice Staff to taunt, you will have a skill in each class that does that, or a skill that is accessible to all classes that does that. Kind of like Inner Fire does now that any class can use.

VilniusNastavnik

GazettE wrote: »

My version would be ilambris, julianos, and accuity. Here i come Magsorc!

Julianos and Acuity on a Magsorc..

Acuity benefits from Low Crit levels, Julianos has 2 crit bonus'. I'd say the current Meta will not change with non pet sorcs.
5 pce Acuity 4 pce MD, 1 VMA, 1 VAS, 2 Illambris.

Pet sorcs though could change to 5 pce Necro, 5 pce Juli, 2 pce Monster.

5 pce IA + 5 pce Juliano 2 pce Illambris though.. might be a different story. Since the off balance nerf, the 5 pce might assist with HA per rotation.

Xeven

@Nestor

What about Master Weapons? Are they getting their removed bonuses back? Otherwise they will be nearly useless...

Vaoh

Honestly, the game just got a lot more fun because of this Maybe we'll see more interesting set combinations now.

Jeremy

techprince wrote: »

It only took 4 years

Better late than never. ^^

Jeremy

Nestor wrote: »

OK, the content in the update is awesome, the world is awesome, Jewelry Crafting is a long time coming, but the best thing I think about the new update is the 2 Handed Weapons (Staves and Bows included) now count as two slots, so we have 12 Equipment slots for bonuses. In other words, 5+5+2.

Now, all my casters can use a monster set without compromising the second piece.

So, discuss what combos your going to try out on your characters now with this huge change in how we can equip our characters.

Finally.

I've been asking for this for years. So like you, this is the best news I have heard thus far.

It was always b.s. that two-handed builds got gypped when it came to putting together two 5-set bonuses and a monster set.

As to possible combinations: I might have to work shields into my healer's rotation now so I can make use of infernal guardian. It might also inspire me to complete Veteran Scalecaller Peak because Zaan looks like it could be a lot of fun as well.

Nestor

Xeven wrote: »

@Nestor

What about Master Weapons? Are they getting their removed bonuses back? Otherwise they will be nearly useless...

If everything is giving out numbers that are consistent with each other, that is all that matters*. I tried a few sets, the theory crafters tried dozens of things. Combat felt the same to me no matter what I tried. Alcast was on one side of me, Xynode was on the other, they reported similar numbers with all the different things they were trying.

Nothing is being rendered useless. You just have more choices now.



*Yes you can still build a useless character if you make stupid choices so of course not every combo is going to be good. But your going to have far more combos to use than you had before to come up with something good.

swippy

without reading the entire thread or being particularly intuitive or anything, i can confidently say that this change will have me running way more dungeon content for my staff users.

GeorgeBlack

This change requires a buff to DW

Enslaved

Might be alone on this, but i dislike it. Its a massive buff for sorcs.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Enslaved wrote: »

Might be alone on this, but i dislike it. Its a massive buff for sorcs.

This is now a nerf sorc thread.

Thunderknuckles

My NB smiles nefariously from the shadows.

Donum-Dei

I never knew about this update and the new weapon options. Interesting. Are they going to give a more detailed info about such?

ccfeeling

Wooooottt

Im happy, thx for comic update ZOS

RexyCat

Faulgor wrote: »

magictucktuck wrote: »

well are all my VMA and AS weapons worthless now since id be missing out on a bonus?

That was my first question as well. How will this work with 2H 1-piece sets like Maelstrom and Asylum weapons?
Will they get a buff to make up for the lost set piece?

Maybe those weapon can be transmog the same way you change traits?

ccfeeling

All my mag build toon never run monster, haha
I could run them finally, nice! Nice!

SodanTok

This is big (and positive) deal for bow/bow. Little sad this change will totally put Master Bow out of any frontbar usefulness. Just right now, set bonuses wise Agility + Master Bow are almost as good as 5 piece set and thats only single target and only on damage (and even ignoring for example warden bear) and very limited choice. No way anyone is going to use that over proper 5 piece set.