P2W comments everywhere..

JackSmirkingRevenge

I feel like the comments from people crying about Pay 2 win have increased dramatically over the last week ever since the Summerset announcement. People are primarily complaining over the new JC system being tied to the xpac.

I have never understood these peoples arguments so maybe this post will trigger one of the folks who are always complaining about the game being pay 2 win to explain their perspective.

To me this is a video game, run by a business. Its a business's goal to make money...not to give out their products for free(In which they have likely invested immense capital into). Making a profit is usually a core concept of owning and operating a company...

If your complaining about Wardens for example being pay 2 win so they shouldn't get buffed...that is ridiculous imo. First off, you could buff the living *** out of them and they wont be as strong as nightblades/sorcs, which are included in the base game.

Second, if you are not a subscriber, there is nothing wrong with you having to pay for DLCs....I think its pretty cool that they are actually included in the ESO sub fee. Same thing with having to pay for a full blown xpac like summerset. How can you argue that you are entitled to content for free that was created by countless hours and dollars spent? If you support the game by paying for various content updates or even the crates, then in theory the developers will continue to produce content. If the game gets stale, and nothing comes out or no improvements are made, then you shouldn't support the game financially any longer.

The bottom line, for me anyway, is that a video game is entertainment, and it cost money.

MLGProPlayer

Those people don't know what P2W means.

Banana

To many poor people

Gnortranermara

Last year, I jokingly named my Argonian Warden tank/healer hybrid Pay-to-Win. This year he's going to be rocking Psijic skills and crafted jewels just for the lulz.

But yes, I agree, this P2W whining is unreasonable, uninformed, and premature. It seems to be nothing more than an expression of an entitlement mentality and a complete misunderstanding of what businesses are and what they are supposed to do.

Selling useful gear/skills in the crown store would be "Pay to Win". Selling game content/expansions (which contains useful gear/skills) is not. As long as you have to earn the benefits of the new gear/skills through actual gameplay, it's fine.

Skander

P2W is a term strictly bind to what the dlc-chapter has to offer.

Of course if for exemple, the new Summerset offers a skilline that is insanly overpower and changes the META of the game. This is what P2W means.

Becouse i have to break a wall to get those skill. Money.

klowdy1

Pretty sure you'll be able to buy the jewelry from the GT, or is that pay to win? The ones complaining want things for free, which is more than likely indicative of their whole lives. When the newest sports game (whatever it may be) comes out, do they expect that for free, even though that $60 tag only comes with slightly altered lineups, no new graphics, (mostly) no new play modes or systems. If this was called ESO3, no one would bat an eye.

Skander

klowdy1 wrote: »

Pretty sure you'll be able to buy the jewelry from the GT, or is that pay to win? The ones complaining want things for free, which is more than likely indicative of their whole lives. When the newest sports game (whatever it may be) comes out, do they expect that for free, even though that $60 tag only comes with slightly altered lineups, no new graphics, (mostly) no new play modes or systems. If this was called ESO3, no one would bat an eye.

But it's not ESO 3. it hasn't even the quantity of features to be a brand new game. It's a chapter/dlc.And if jewlery crafting will be bind to it, it would be upsetting. becouse i remember to have bought the game once, and the beta has finished by a while.

srfrogg23

Everyone’s looking for some cause for moral sanctimony, some dragon to slay, so they ready their forum swords and charge at every windmill in sight.

Maryal

I paid money to buy the game. I suppose that makes it PTW for me.

Conduit0

People label anything they don't like as pay to win in a shallow attempt to get others to agree with them.

Sixty5

I'd point out that BiS gear from previous DLC's and such is much closer to P2W than Jewellery crafting..

That gear you cannot get unless you purchase the relevant content, crafted jewellery is going to be bind on equip, and thus you can simply buy it off another player.

Korah_Eaglecry

I really think we should get a look at the Psjiic Orders Skill line before anyone goes calling things P2W. With that said I am not a fan of skills and classes being locked behind a paywall. Just presents an appearance of moving in the direction of P2W.

xaraan

Every time anything beneficial in the least is ever sold (as if ZoS is a charity and they are just supposed to give content out of the kindness of their heart) people whine about P2W. 1. It's not wrong to put appealing things in sold content - that's the whole purpose of selling new stuff - for it to be new and appealing. and 2. Just because it's an improvement in some situations for certain things does not equal "win".

When ZoS puts out a new Maelstrom-like BiS weapon that is only sold in the crown store and no where else, then I'll join the chorus of P2W. Until then, people need to quit being cheap.

Septimus_Magna

Banana wrote: »

To many poor people

If those people would work half as much as they complain they wouldnt be poor..

Maura_Neysa

P2W is a real problem, that ESO really doesn't have.
For example. If Clockwork Armor sets were BiS that you just couldn't match any other way, that would be P2W. However they are not. The drop sets are no where near the top, not even worth putting on the trader IMO. The Asylum weapons are good sure, but only good enough to make Force Pulse an option to weave with. That and the Destro and 2H are really the only 2 in competition for the top spots.
Another example would be if Crown Store Potions/Poisons were you best choice. However again, they aren't, you are better off with crafted ones by a little bit.
The current complaint is because with Jewelry crafting you will be able to run set combinations, that are not possible otherwise. However even this is a little off. Because currently you can run 5/5 switch with Willpower jewelry instead of a Monster. Its also a little impossible to say whether something is going to be OP without actually being able to test it yet. After all there where way more Zaans need nerfed post before it was released than after. I have actually see anyone proc it on my in PvP yet, and I run a CC tank.

So while yes, ZoS is a company looking to make money, P2W = Player abandonment. That makes P2W a bad thing, and one that ZoS has balanced pretty well. Even for those that are just certain gold jewelry will make the difference, everyone has access to Adhazabi Aba-daro for Bind on Pickup sets, and Craftable sets will be sellable too.

FleetwoodSmack

This thread is now P2W.

Cpt_Teemo

From most people's perspectives they shouldn't lock a whole crafting line behind a pay wall

swippy

i've spent a lot of money on this game and i still haven't won. there's gotta be more to it.

MLGProPlayer

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

From most people's perspectives they shouldn't lock a whole crafting line behind a pay wall

Actually, most people are fine with it:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/403352/should-jewelry-crafting-be-a-based-game-feature-and-not-a-paygate-feature/p1

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/403372/jewelry-crafting-is-now-simply-pay-to-win-and-extremely-anti-consuming/p1

witchdoctor

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

From most people's perspectives they shouldn't lock a whole crafting line behind a pay wall

Darn good thing you can buy the crafted product then, eh?

witchdoctor

swippy wrote: »

i've spent a lot of money on this game and i still haven't won. there's gotta be more to it.

Have you tried playing a warden?

That was the last P2W. You have until 24 May 2018 to find, and beat, the secret level on a warden, and then win the game!

swippy

witchdoctor wrote: »

show previous quotes

swippy wrote: »

i've spent a lot of money on this game and i still haven't won. there's gotta be more to it.

Have you tried playing a warden?

That was the last P2W. You have until 24 May 2018 to find, and beat, the secret level on a warden, and then win the game!

thanks! but if it's an underwater level or an escort mission i'd rather just lose

ShadowMonarch

IF paying money gives you a in game advantage over other players then it is pay to win.

By definition.

MeltyLotus

Expansions that don't add anything new cause it's not already in the base game are a waste.

DLC is extra. Chapters should be about adding new things to the game. You want all the new shiney things get the expansions. It

frausty

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

IF paying money gives you a in game advantage over other players then it is pay to win.

By definition.

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

IF paying money gives you a in game advantage over other players then it is pay to win.

By definition.

And in ESO it doesn't. You can play the base game and still have the same opportunities as everyone else However if you want the extra stuff then you havre to pay for it. It's like buying a new car with a full tank of fuel and then expecting to get free fuel for the rest of your life. Pure nonsense..

New content on this scale simply cannot be free. This game is created by people that have to be paid, in offices that have to be paid for and with equipment that has to be purchased. How exactly does this happen if everything is free? If you work you expect to be paid presumably?

Honestly, it's not as if you are being asked to spend a vast sum of money to get access to new content and if you don't want to pay, the rest of the game is still there for you to enjoy.

Bbsample197

people who whine about jewelry crafting being p2w are also the ppl who whine about craftbag and eso+ being p2w

Olupajmibanan

My only complaint is about Chapters not being purchasable with crowns.

I don't mind things locked behind a paywall if they allow me to buy the content. They have their own currency and you can't use it because of some idiotic rule that excludes Chapters from Crown Store.

Kel

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

I really think we should get a look at the Psjiic Orders Skill line before anyone goes calling things P2W. With that said I am not a fan of skills and classes being locked behind a paywall. Just presents an appearance of moving in the direction of P2W.

I don't get this line of thinking at all.
In any other MMO, you don't get to play the new class if you don't buy the expansion.
Look at WoW...a MMO, one that has a sub but also has a cash shop. (!) Not only do you have to buy the base game, but you pay for every expansion as well.
You didn't get to play as a Demon Hunter unless you bought the expansion Legion. If you only bought vanilla, you didn't get to play as another race outside of the original, let alone any new classes. Yet, that game is almost never called "Hey, that's pay to win, man!!"
Every game has it's paywalls. That doesn't make it pay to win.
Games have expansions, and you don't get to play the new stuff if you don't pay for it. Just because you buy the base game, that does not entitle you to get the chapters contents for free.

Zeni0s

I prefer seeing P2W than 'nerf NB'

Everstorm

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

show previous quotes

Banana wrote: »

To many poor people

If those people would work half as much as they complain they wouldnt be poor..

In general I agree with you. But keep in mind that there are people who can not work, for health reason for instance. Regardless, compared to other forms of entertainment ESO is pretty good bang for your buck.

Ragnarock41

Making a separate post just to insult the people that do not agree with you

The argument is very simple and it has nothing to do with affording the chapter or not.

You see, ESO is a buy to play game with an optional subscription, because the game would honestly be dead by now if it didn't went free to play. The idea behind ESO+ and why it was good was simple, you paid the money, in return you didn't have to worry about buying dlcs every few months and other benefits like crafting bag.

Now this is the second time we have a chapter and ESO+ became a little more meaningless. If you don't care about dungeons and/or zones ESO+ now becomes almost totally unneccessary and you can just buy the chapters and be done with it.

The solution is to make chapters obtainable with crowns. loyal ESO+ members should be able to buy the chapters with their yearly sub crown if they wish to.