P2W comments everywhere..
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Knootewoot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭For me P2W is that super strong equipment and potions can be bought from an online store. Something Allods did after a patch where you became weaker, but could get back to your normal stronginess if you bougth a potion from the online store.
Some content behind an expansion is not Pay2Win. It's an expansion pack with new features coming with that pack. Don't be afraid. Jewels can be bought from traders and eventually the expansion will be free/ part of the ESO plus or will be cheap at any local vendor.٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶
"I am a nightblade. Blending the disciplines of the stealthy agent and subtle wizard, I move unseen and undetected, foil locks and traps, and teleport to safety when threatened, or strike like a viper from ambush. The College of Illusion hides me and fuddles or pacifies my opponents. The College of Mysticism detects my object, reflects and dispels enemy spells, and makes good my escape. The key to a nightblade's success is avoidance, by spell or by stealth; with these skills, all things are possible."1 -
DieAlteHexe✭✭✭✭✭
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In general I agree with you. But keep in mind that there are people who can not work, for health reason for instance. Regardless, compared to other forms of entertainment ESO is pretty good bang for your buck.
Then we save up for it.
Dirty, filthy casual aka Nancy, the Wallet Warrior Carebear Potato Whale Snowflake0 -
Violynne✭✭✭✭✭
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Play to win.MLGProPlayer wrote: »Those people don't know what P2W means.
Some people believe the "l" is silent.
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klowdy1✭✭✭✭✭
But it's not ESO 3. it hasn't even the quantity of features to be a brand new game. It's a chapter/dlc.And if jewlery crafting will be bind to it, it would be upsetting. becouse i remember to have bought the game once, and the beta has finished by a while.
This makes very little sense to me. I'm assuming English is not your first language based on sentence structure ( of making fun, just noting). I'm not sure what "becouse I remember to have bought the game once, and the beta has finished by a while" means. Are you saying you deserve the expansion because you paid for the game along time ago?0 -
Knootewoot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Somebody set up us the bomb٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶
"I am a nightblade. Blending the disciplines of the stealthy agent and subtle wizard, I move unseen and undetected, foil locks and traps, and teleport to safety when threatened, or strike like a viper from ambush. The College of Illusion hides me and fuddles or pacifies my opponents. The College of Mysticism detects my object, reflects and dispels enemy spells, and makes good my escape. The key to a nightblade's success is avoidance, by spell or by stealth; with these skills, all things are possible."1 -
Merlin13KAGL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭You're expecting to be able to counter using logic on the masses...
Best of luck with that one!
Here's one that's irrefutable and both sides can agree on:
The entire game is P2W. If you never pay for the game, you cannot 'win.'
Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...
Earn it.
IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.SpoilerI am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS0 -
DieAlteHexe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Merlin13KAGL wrote: »You're expecting to be able to counter using logic on the masses...
Best of luck with that one!
Here's one that's irrefutable and both sides can agree on:
The entire game is P2W. If you never pay for the game, you cannot 'win.'
I'll see that and raise you a "how the hell do you win at an MMO" since they're always evolving. You can win "battles" but the "war"?
Dirty, filthy casual aka Nancy, the Wallet Warrior Carebear Potato Whale Snowflake1 -
JamilaRaj✭✭✭✭✭
✭Pretty sure you'll be able to buy the jewelry from the GT, or is that pay to win?
Of course, that you bought it from GT or simply procured it from a generous buddy does not mean that real money payment did not happen; somebody else paid for you to became more powerul than those nobody paid for. If they in turn sold it to you for in game assets, they took part in effectively cash to gold/assets conversion scheme, on top of also being more powerful than those nobody paid for.1 -
Kajuratus✭✭✭TBH, I'd rather have content behind an initial paywall rather than have it be a "free" update and have the system be heavily monetized until its no longer fun. I feel that cosmetics are slightly different, like housing, but even then there should be a large enough pool of cosmetic decorations so that a player can enjoy the benefits of the system without having to pay anything. If you provide a means to monetize your game to 1000 potential customers, X number of people will contribute to that monetization.So the Dark Elves have weird alien architecture, where people live in mushroom towers and the shell of a giant crab, but the High Elves, the pinnacle of technology, the most magically advanced race in Tamriel, are still stuck in slightly pretty, fairly tall stone buildings? Not even a hint of a glass city? Are stainless glass windows really enough to claim that a city is made of glass?0 -
Tapio75✭✭✭✭✭
✭Star trek online is pay to win, ESO is not.>>PC-EU Mostly PVE. Played since BETA<<0 -
rustic_potato✭✭✭✭✭How do you win in an MMO? The entire argument is kinda pointless. Whiners will always whine about stuff just because they can.I play how I want to.1 -
carly✭✭✭✭In some games anyone can buy end game gear (raid gear) with cash without having to do the work or to obtain the achievement for it - that's 'pay to win' in my opinion.
Receiving benefits or access to content for purchasing the expansion or paying the monthly sub fee is not pay to win. In my mind it's a 'loyalty reward' for supporting the game.
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ADarklore✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭People complain about Jewelry Crafting being part of Summerset... and yet seems my complaints months ago about the transmutation requiring participation in content that I don't enjoy, fell on their deaf ears. Thus, I am happy that many of those people who chided me for my complaints about transmutation availability, will now have to deal with some "difficulties" themselves with Jewelry crafting.CP: 1965 ** ESO+ Gold Road ** ~~ Stamina Arcanist ~~ Magicka Warden ~~ Magicka Templar ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****1 -
klowdy1✭✭✭✭✭
Of course, that you bought it from GT or simply procured it from a generous buddy does not mean that real money payment did not happen; somebody else paid for you to became more powerul than those nobody paid for. If they in turn sold it to you for in game assets, they took part in effectively cash to gold/assets conversion scheme, on top of also being more powerful than those nobody paid for.
Really grasping at straws here. Now selling in game gear, procured propperly, has become pay to win.
How about this? Base game is pay to win. I had to freakin buy the game in order to play? This is total BS. ZOS should let me play for free, because that is what I want.
How dare they try to make money, which is what all these threads about jewelry crafting, the new skill line, and the chapter in general have been about. All the complaints about the expansion are about how people shouldn't have to pay for any of it. People cherrypick what they really want, like the new crafting, the new skills, and even the entire chapter, and say it should be free or part of ESO+, even removing crown crates.
If the complainers got their way, the game would shut down, because the only source of income at that point would be ESO+, and that isn't enough to sustain a game, unless you want the same situation as rift. There are like 5 people working on that entire game, and it sucks now.0 -
DieAlteHexe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭People complain about Jewelry Crafting being part of Summerset... and yet seems my complaints months ago about the transmutation requiring participation in content that I don't enjoy, fell on their deaf ears. Thus, I am happy that many of those people who chided me for my complaints about transmutation availability, will now have to deal with some "difficulties" themselves with Jewelry crafting.
Classic Schadenfreude.
Dirty, filthy casual aka Nancy, the Wallet Warrior Carebear Potato Whale Snowflake0 -
ADarklore✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DieAlteHexe wrote: »
Classic Schadenfreude.
Yes well, when you read over and over people telling me how "MMO is about group playing" and how I should just "play the content if I want the rewards"... yes, it's about time those same people feel some of that in return.CP: 1965 ** ESO+ Gold Road ** ~~ Stamina Arcanist ~~ Magicka Warden ~~ Magicka Templar ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****0 -
DieAlteHexe✭✭✭✭✭
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Yes well, when you read over and over people telling me how "MMO is about group playing" and how I should just "play the content if I want the rewards"... yes, it's about time those same people feel some of that in return.
Or you could not waste the energy.
Karma got 'em. Always does...eventually.
Dirty, filthy casual aka Nancy, the Wallet Warrior Carebear Potato Whale Snowflake0 -
Torbschka✭✭✭✭P2W is a term strictly bind to what the dlc-chapter has to offer.
Of course if for exemple, the new Summerset offers a skilline that is insanly overpower and changes the META of the game. This is what P2W means.
Becouse i have to break a wall to get those skill. Money.
Just stop being dumb, how do u know that its going to be "op" ? Those *** posts everywhere...0 -
Thanks to everyone who responded constructively, and even those who inserted light humor
. I made this thread because I just flat didnt understand the side of people saying everything was pay to win. I absolutely do not agree with that position still, but think the conversation was positive. I still hold that eso has the least toxic and most enjoyable community of any mmo. (Just stay out of the vivec pvp posts 
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Kuramas9tails✭✭✭✭✭
✭I run around with blue jewelry on in PVP and still slay. P2W with Summerset DLC? Not me. Your friendly neighborhood crazy cat lady of ESO
New PSN name: SundariTheLast. Proud seller in RedEye Empire, PURPLE GANG and Backalley Trading.
AD High Elf Mageblade DPS (General)(Former Empress) -- Stormproof/VMOL, VHOF, VDSA completion
AD Khajiit Mageblade DPS -- Flawless Conquerer
FOR THE QUEEN!
PS4/NA0 -
Peekachu99✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »I really think we should get a look at the Psjiic Orders Skill line before anyone goes calling things P2W. With that said I am not a fan of skills and classes being locked behind a paywall. Just presents an appearance of moving in the direction of P2W.
***Being locked behind downloadable content. The problem with these arguments is that most of the people making them have no idea what a paywall or P2W is. Paying for content that has not yet been included in the game is NOT A PAYWALL. If jewelry crafting was actually IN the game and then suddenly moved behind a Summerset purchase, that would be a paywall. Also P2W is something like any Perfect World game where you can literally go into the shop and purchase top tier loot boxes or gear for your toon. You are paying to have a direct, immediate statistical advantage over someone else. Because crafted (not account bound drops, obviously) jewelry can likely be traded or sold, it is available to everyone—with caveats—and is therefor not pay to win.
Do you honestly expect ZOS to continue to develop content and features out of the goodness of their hearts for all those who bought a $39 (or cheaper) version of their game? Till they eventually run themselves into bankruptcy? What is the logic here? And be careful with your comparatives and conflation here to “old ESO” since subscriptions used to be mandatory for even logging into the game.
Please understand these terms before using them again.2 -
Peekachu99✭✭✭✭✭
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I don't get this line of thinking at all.
In any other MMO, you don't get to play the new class if you don't buy the expansion.
Look at WoW...a MMO, one that has a sub but also has a cash shop. (!) Not only do you have to buy the base game, but you pay for every expansion as well.
You didn't get to play as a Demon Hunter unless you bought the expansion Legion. If you only bought vanilla, you didn't get to play as another race outside of the original, let alone any new classes. Yet, that game is almost never called "Hey, that's pay to win, man!!"
Every game has it's paywalls. That doesn't make it pay to win.
Games have expansions, and you don't get to play the new stuff if you don't pay for it. Just because you buy the base game, that does not entitle you to get the chapters contents for free.
ESO has a ton of MMORPG first timers and console players who are fine getting nickle and dime’d by Activblizz in CoD but get up in arms about having to pay for new content.
It’s getting tiresome, and the arguments are getting weaker and less coherent.4 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If they made it Play to Whine they would make a fortune!
Damn @reiverx beat me to it. lolEdited by TequilaFire on March 30, 2018 1:39PM2 -
Peekachu99 wrote: »It’s getting tiresome, and the arguments are getting weaker and less coherent.
Thats why as the OP I tried to end the discussion a few posts above lol I wish I had a way to close the thread...
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