The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Nightblade, tears everywhere.
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Skander✭✭✭✭✭
✭Let's be honest, Stamina nightblades cloak too much.
In medium armor you have high chance to dodge things. (shuffle + cheap roll dodge). All these are stamina.
With cloak nightblades have another skill, that costs magicka, to avoid direct damage, leaving them most of the fight, untouched.
Since they are a burst class they can literally shot a tanky target down in a matter of seconds.
Something needs to happen to cloak. Becouse it's useless to magicka (snares) and way too much useful to staminaI meme, but my memes are so truthful they hurt
-Elder Nightblades Online
Want competitive pvp while being outnumbered? Tough luck, the devs clearly said you have to die in those situations0 -
Sixty5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Why are Nightblades overperforming?
First of all, in PVE Nightblade is top dog as DPS because they have some of the highest ult regen, along with one of the cheapest ultimates in the game, giving them insane synergy with War Machine and Master Architect. Their innate 10% crit damage passive also interacts well with Mechanical Acuity. Having amazing synergy with the two premiere DPS sets in the game is obviously going to boost them into the top slot. The fact that with Siphoning they can actually sustain a ligght attack rotation, and thus weren't hit as hard by off balance changes is icing on the cake
In the same PVE vein, Mag Sorcs have seen a number of nerfs to reduce their damage output, Stam Sorcs and Stam DK's lost a lot of DPS from Off Balance changes, given its lower uptime. Templars didn't really get any help, or any nerfs, and wardens are still wardens.
So when everything else that is competing for the top DPS slot sees direct of indirect nerfs, the class that is able to abuse new gear the hardest, and the class that got a number of quality of life buffs alongside that is obviously going to flourish.
Now in terms of PVP, Nightblades have some pretty impressive burst damage, as well as the ability to reset a fight at will through a mixture of cloak, shadow image and healing.
Additionally the recent changes to both the way dodging attacks works, alongside the changes to Shadow Image means that Nightblades as a whole are a lot more slippery than before.
Now, I am no expert on the class, but if you want to bring them in line, a good way might be to increase the cost of Incap/Soul Harvest to 100.
This lowers their uptime on Major Slayer as a DPS, bringing them back into line with other classes, and it also means that they are forced to make more/longer engagements outside of their burst windows in PVP.Lord and Savior of the Association of Serious S***posters.
I play a character called "Gives Me Wood Elf" because I am a mature and sensible person.
Stam Sorc main in Battlegrounds3 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why are Nightblades overperforming?
First of all, in PVE Nightblade is top dog as DPS because they have some of the highest ult regen, along with one of the cheapest ultimates in the game, giving them insane synergy with War Machine and Master Architect. Their innate 10% crit damage passive also interacts well with Mechanical Acuity. Having amazing synergy with the two premiere DPS sets in the game is obviously going to boost them into the top slot. The fact that with Siphoning they can actually sustain a ligght attack rotation, and thus weren't hit as hard by off balance changes is icing on the cake
In the same PVE vein, Mag Sorcs have seen a number of nerfs to reduce their damage output, Stam Sorcs and Stam DK's lost a lot of DPS from Off Balance changes, given its lower uptime. Templars didn't really get any help, or any nerfs, and wardens are still wardens.
So when everything else that is competing for the top DPS slot sees direct of indirect nerfs, the class that is able to abuse new gear the hardest, and the class that got a number of quality of life buffs alongside that is obviously going to flourish.
Now in terms of PVP, Nightblades have some pretty impressive burst damage, as well as the ability to reset a fight at will through a mixture of cloak, shadow image and healing.
Additionally the recent changes to both the way dodging attacks works, alongside the changes to Shadow Image means that Nightblades as a whole are a lot more slippery than before.
Now, I am no expert on the class, but if you want to bring them in line, a good way might be to increase the cost of Incap/Soul Harvest to 100.
This lowers their uptime on Major Slayer as a DPS, bringing them back into line with other classes, and it also means that they are forced to make more/longer engagements outside of their burst windows in PVP.
By doing that, all nbs that were there for major slayer will be replaced with Templars... you just killed pve nb...0 -
Sixty5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Why are Nightblades overperforming?
First of all, in PVE Nightblade is top dog as DPS because they have some of the highest ult regen, along with one of the cheapest ultimates in the game, giving them insane synergy with War Machine and Master Architect. Their innate 10% crit damage passive also interacts well with Mechanical Acuity. Having amazing synergy with the two premiere DPS sets in the game is obviously going to boost them into the top slot. The fact that with Siphoning they can actually sustain a ligght attack rotation, and thus weren't hit as hard by off balance changes is icing on the cake
In the same PVE vein, Mag Sorcs have seen a number of nerfs to reduce their damage output, Stam Sorcs and Stam DK's lost a lot of DPS from Off Balance changes, given its lower uptime. Templars didn't really get any help, or any nerfs, and wardens are still wardens.
So when everything else that is competing for the top DPS slot sees direct of indirect nerfs, the class that is able to abuse new gear the hardest, and the class that got a number of quality of life buffs alongside that is obviously going to flourish.
Now in terms of PVP, Nightblades have some pretty impressive burst damage, as well as the ability to reset a fight at will through a mixture of cloak, shadow image and healing.
Additionally the recent changes to both the way dodging attacks works, alongside the changes to Shadow Image means that Nightblades as a whole are a lot more slippery than before.
Now, I am no expert on the class, but if you want to bring them in line, a good way might be to increase the cost of Incap/Soul Harvest to 100.
This lowers their uptime on Major Slayer as a DPS, bringing them back into line with other classes, and it also means that they are forced to make more/longer engagements outside of their burst windows in PVP.
By doing that, all nbs that were there for major slayer will be replaced with Templars... you just killed pve nb...
They still have the highest baseline DPS beyond the Major Slayer uptime, and that gives Templars and Wardens a role in PVE DPS.Lord and Savior of the Association of Serious S***posters.
I play a character called "Gives Me Wood Elf" because I am a mature and sensible person.
Stam Sorc main in Battlegrounds0 -
rimmidimdim✭✭✭rimmidimdim wrote: »rimmidimdim wrote: »rimmidimdim wrote: »A buff I would like to see to NB's is this. A heavy attack, especially duel wield heavy attacks, but I think all heavy attacks, should count as two "ticks" towards merciless resolve and relentless focus. Also siphoning strikes should get double resources from heavy attacks. That would give a nice specific class buff for the NB's. Be really nice buff for NB tanky builds in particular, buff all NB's would receive a nice class specific buff. Cheers.
Yeah, because obviously a Grim Focus proc on every 3rd rotation is exactly the kind of DPS buff the strongest DPS class needs right now...
Again, yes you can argue third rotation but would still be very similar dps.
Wow you just have no clue what so ever...
Wow, in what way I have no clue what so ever? I'm right. It takes twice as long to load up a heavy attack. So procs and resources are cut in half for heavy armor builds. Or heavy attack builds. Is that an issue for you?
You dont even comment on what I quoted, must be a troll, no one is that thick...
Idk what you are saying. Don't matter, thick, skinny, transparent, don't matter. My suggestion is for NB tanks, NB tanks are lacking, makes sense. Everyone hate gank NB's, this would not be a buff to them. A good buff to NB tanks. They need a buff and this is a good suggestion.
Troll? Where?2 -
IZZEFlameLash✭✭✭✭✭
✭NBs received major nerfs? Since when? Did their playstyle completely change at all? Did they stop slotting siphoning strike? Did they stop slotting fear? Did they stop roll dodging? Did they stop using incap? In fact, did NBs uniqueness even fade away to the point they ask questions what DKs and Templars ask themselves when they play?Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel0 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭IZZEFlameLash wrote: »NBs received major nerfs? Since when? Did their playstyle completely change at all? Did they stop slotting siphoning strike? Did they stop slotting fear? Did they stop roll dodging? Did they stop using incap? In fact, did NBs uniqueness even fade away to the point they ask questions what DKs and Templars ask themselves when they play?
you want nightblades nerfed because of revenge.
thats not balance, thats just hate.
2 -
Bam_Bam✭✭✭✭✭
✭rimmidimdim wrote: »rimmidimdim wrote: »rimmidimdim wrote: »rimmidimdim wrote: »A buff I would like to see to NB's is this. A heavy attack, especially duel wield heavy attacks, but I think all heavy attacks, should count as two "ticks" towards merciless resolve and relentless focus. Also siphoning strikes should get double resources from heavy attacks. That would give a nice specific class buff for the NB's. Be really nice buff for NB tanky builds in particular, buff all NB's would receive a nice class specific buff. Cheers.
Yeah, because obviously a Grim Focus proc on every 3rd rotation is exactly the kind of DPS buff the strongest DPS class needs right now...
Again, yes you can argue third rotation but would still be very similar dps.
Wow you just have no clue what so ever...
Wow, in what way I have no clue what so ever? I'm right. It takes twice as long to load up a heavy attack. So procs and resources are cut in half for heavy armor builds. Or heavy attack builds. Is that an issue for you?
You dont even comment on what I quoted, must be a troll, no one is that thick...
Idk what you are saying. Don't matter, thick, skinny, transparent, don't matter. My suggestion is for NB tanks, NB tanks are lacking, makes sense. Everyone hate gank NB's, this would not be a buff to them. A good buff to NB tanks. They need a buff and this is a good suggestion.
Troll? Where?
Nightblades aren't supposed to be a tanking class......Joined January 2014
PC EU - PvE & BGs & PvP (Vivec)
Grand Master Crafter
#DiscordHypeSquad
Stream
Lims Kragm'a
Bam Bam Bara0 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
You don't want nb nerfed because you play one. That's not balance, that's just being biased.dwemer_paleologist wrote: »IZZEFlameLash wrote: »NBs received major nerfs? Since when? Did their playstyle completely change at all? Did they stop slotting siphoning strike? Did they stop slotting fear? Did they stop roll dodging? Did they stop using incap? In fact, did NBs uniqueness even fade away to the point they ask questions what DKs and Templars ask themselves when they play?
you want nightblades nerfed because of revenge.
thats not balance, thats just hate.2 -
ErMurazor✭✭✭✭✭We want classes that excel at different parts of the game? or are the goal to make all classes equally good at everything? If you think balance equals the latter then ask yourself why we have classes in the first place.1 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Is that what the mystery 70mb was, a Nightblade buff?I've been trying to figure it out as well, I just guessed it was our time to have people cry about everything until a token change is made.
Most of the time complaints from PvP comes down to the fact people refuse to change their "unstoppable build" to counter Nightblades or being mad they can't get a kill because the Nightblade got away.
You mustn't have tried that hard, it's all in the patch notes
When everyone gets nerfed worse than you - you´re still better off than the rest even though you got nerfed aswell.
Then we saw a couple of fixed that kept nb back (cloak + shade)
A great buff to merciless.
An even greater buff to stamina (in cp environment) with off balance + heavyattack changes.
I do mainly play NB and sorc and boy did the performance of those two shift in different directions since morrowind.
I don´t even want to argue about "changing unstoppable build to counter NBs" but anyway - nb is the only class that requires you to slot/use otherwise useless one purpose counters in the first place.
When we have to slot specific counters for every other class aswell that are useless otherwise we can talk. Until that´s happening this is not a valid point to be brought up at all to defend NBs.
Its an argument to nerf them or buff the counters.Edited by Derra on March 30, 2018 9:01AM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 507 -
jcasini222ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭I'm just surprised fear is still in the game and blinding flashes was removed.1
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Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭rimmidimdim wrote: »rimmidimdim wrote: »rimmidimdim wrote: »rimmidimdim wrote: »A buff I would like to see to NB's is this. A heavy attack, especially duel wield heavy attacks, but I think all heavy attacks, should count as two "ticks" towards merciless resolve and relentless focus. Also siphoning strikes should get double resources from heavy attacks. That would give a nice specific class buff for the NB's. Be really nice buff for NB tanky builds in particular, buff all NB's would receive a nice class specific buff. Cheers.
Yeah, because obviously a Grim Focus proc on every 3rd rotation is exactly the kind of DPS buff the strongest DPS class needs right now...
Again, yes you can argue third rotation but would still be very similar dps.
Wow you just have no clue what so ever...
Wow, in what way I have no clue what so ever? I'm right. It takes twice as long to load up a heavy attack. So procs and resources are cut in half for heavy armor builds. Or heavy attack builds. Is that an issue for you?
You dont even comment on what I quoted, must be a troll, no one is that thick...
Idk what you are saying. Don't matter, thick, skinny, transparent, don't matter. My suggestion is for NB tanks, NB tanks are lacking, makes sense. Everyone hate gank NB's, this would not be a buff to them. A good buff to NB tanks. They need a buff and this is a good suggestion.
Troll? Where?
You said you wanted DW heavy attacks to count as 2 attacks towards Grim Focus. And you're telling us this is to buff the NB tanks.
Tanks..... with DW and Grim Focus. And you're confused as to why people say you troll.
I do hope you are trolling. Cause at least then you're doing it well. Otherwise it paints a very negative picture of your understanding of the game.
EU | PC | AD2 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why are Nightblades overperforming?
First of all, in PVE Nightblade is top dog as DPS because they have some of the highest ult regen, along with one of the cheapest ultimates in the game, giving them insane synergy with War Machine and Master Architect. Their innate 10% crit damage passive also interacts well with Mechanical Acuity. Having amazing synergy with the two premiere DPS sets in the game is obviously going to boost them into the top slot. The fact that with Siphoning they can actually sustain a ligght attack rotation, and thus weren't hit as hard by off balance changes is icing on the cake
In the same PVE vein, Mag Sorcs have seen a number of nerfs to reduce their damage output, Stam Sorcs and Stam DK's lost a lot of DPS from Off Balance changes, given its lower uptime. Templars didn't really get any help, or any nerfs, and wardens are still wardens.
So when everything else that is competing for the top DPS slot sees direct of indirect nerfs, the class that is able to abuse new gear the hardest, and the class that got a number of quality of life buffs alongside that is obviously going to flourish.
Now in terms of PVP, Nightblades have some pretty impressive burst damage, as well as the ability to reset a fight at will through a mixture of cloak, shadow image and healing.
Additionally the recent changes to both the way dodging attacks works, alongside the changes to Shadow Image means that Nightblades as a whole are a lot more slippery than before.
Now, I am no expert on the class, but if you want to bring them in line, a good way might be to increase the cost of Incap/Soul Harvest to 100.
This lowers their uptime on Major Slayer as a DPS, bringing them back into line with other classes, and it also means that they are forced to make more/longer engagements outside of their burst windows in PVP.
By doing that, all nbs that were there for major slayer will be replaced with Templars... you just killed pve nb...
They still have the highest baseline DPS beyond the Major Slayer uptime, and that gives Templars and Wardens a role in PVE DPS.
You do realize that it is not just major slayer that nbs are losing, it is also the damage boost which is why nbs slot and use it over the bow ult or another ult that is better single sustained target.1 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Why are Nightblades overperforming?
First of all, in PVE Nightblade is top dog as DPS because they have some of the highest ult regen, along with one of the cheapest ultimates in the game, giving them insane synergy with War Machine and Master Architect. Their innate 10% crit damage passive also interacts well with Mechanical Acuity. Having amazing synergy with the two premiere DPS sets in the game is obviously going to boost them into the top slot. The fact that with Siphoning they can actually sustain a ligght attack rotation, and thus weren't hit as hard by off balance changes is icing on the cake
In the same PVE vein, Mag Sorcs have seen a number of nerfs to reduce their damage output, Stam Sorcs and Stam DK's lost a lot of DPS from Off Balance changes, given its lower uptime. Templars didn't really get any help, or any nerfs, and wardens are still wardens.
So when everything else that is competing for the top DPS slot sees direct of indirect nerfs, the class that is able to abuse new gear the hardest, and the class that got a number of quality of life buffs alongside that is obviously going to flourish.
Now in terms of PVP, Nightblades have some pretty impressive burst damage, as well as the ability to reset a fight at will through a mixture of cloak, shadow image and healing.
Additionally the recent changes to both the way dodging attacks works, alongside the changes to Shadow Image means that Nightblades as a whole are a lot more slippery than before.
Now, I am no expert on the class, but if you want to bring them in line, a good way might be to increase the cost of Incap/Soul Harvest to 100.
This lowers their uptime on Major Slayer as a DPS, bringing them back into line with other classes, and it also means that they are forced to make more/longer engagements outside of their burst windows in PVP.
By doing that, all nbs that were there for major slayer will be replaced with Templars... you just killed pve nb...
They still have the highest baseline DPS beyond the Major Slayer uptime, and that gives Templars and Wardens a role in PVE DPS.
You do realize that it is not just major slayer that nbs are losing, it is also the damage boost which is why nbs slot and use it over the bow ult or another ult that is better single sustained target.
Technically a 100 cost ult for a NB, is an approx ~75 ult cost because of Catalyst and Transfer passives. That's for a stamblade, because with MagBlades using Swallow Soul and proc'ing Transfer far more often it's about ~60. Now, while stamblade will certainly lose PvE DPS due to such a cost increase, I don't think it'll put it behind the other classes but more on a par. It will certainly still be viable and the prime user of War Machine in a raid. That would be subject to testing of course, we won't know till we try. Till that point, it's only an opinion.
That said, I'm personally not fussed about PvE nerfs for NBs. I think other classes need a bit more help there, rather than nerfing NB. PvP is another question.EU | PC | AD0 -
Emmagoldman✭✭✭✭✭
✭Changes to other classes and grim focus have really helped out the class. Fear is still really strong because break free is still bugged along with weapon swaps, though it’s not the fault of the class. However, I think in general the class is fine. With incap, the problem isn’t necessarily with incap itself,but low cost and the ability to have blood spawn and asylum 2h. The ult gen is too fast that incap is easier to line up into a constant rotation. I’m also not sure if a direct nerf to incap would be good in a heavy armor meta. If forward momentum and shuffles cc immunity was flipped, then a slight nerf to incap would be fine.
I would either adjust the execute range of executioner to 40 or 45% health or reduce the ult regen of the asylum sword or rework it all together.
Bloodspawn proc +14 ult regen, potion 20 ult, light attack 24 ult over 8sec (think it was changed) transfer for 2 and asylum sword at up 14 depending on dog per hit. Easy to crank up another incap in the subsequent rotation. In a sense you can use incap as it was before nerf which was way op
Bloodspawn shouldn’t be touched because it’s used in pve so much. I think sometimes we jump to classes instead of looking at what classes are using. Example, magsorc with Skelton pirate which procd off shields. Wasn’t the shields needed to be crit or other horrible ideas, it’s the sets in use may have more issues with particular classes.
Adjust executioner % or asylum sword, look at other classes, (like give sorc frag stun back with current lower dmg) then come back to nb as a class0 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »IZZEFlameLash wrote: »NBs received major nerfs? Since when? Did their playstyle completely change at all? Did they stop slotting siphoning strike? Did they stop slotting fear? Did they stop roll dodging? Did they stop using incap? In fact, did NBs uniqueness even fade away to the point they ask questions what DKs and Templars ask themselves when they play?
you want nightblades nerfed because of revenge.
thats not balance, thats just hate.
I want nightblades nerfed and I’ve mained a magblade since I started playing this game 3 years ago. What’s your point?0 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why are Nightblades overperforming?
First of all, in PVE Nightblade is top dog as DPS because they have some of the highest ult regen, along with one of the cheapest ultimates in the game, giving them insane synergy with War Machine and Master Architect. Their innate 10% crit damage passive also interacts well with Mechanical Acuity. Having amazing synergy with the two premiere DPS sets in the game is obviously going to boost them into the top slot. The fact that with Siphoning they can actually sustain a ligght attack rotation, and thus weren't hit as hard by off balance changes is icing on the cake
In the same PVE vein, Mag Sorcs have seen a number of nerfs to reduce their damage output, Stam Sorcs and Stam DK's lost a lot of DPS from Off Balance changes, given its lower uptime. Templars didn't really get any help, or any nerfs, and wardens are still wardens.
So when everything else that is competing for the top DPS slot sees direct of indirect nerfs, the class that is able to abuse new gear the hardest, and the class that got a number of quality of life buffs alongside that is obviously going to flourish.
Now in terms of PVP, Nightblades have some pretty impressive burst damage, as well as the ability to reset a fight at will through a mixture of cloak, shadow image and healing.
Additionally the recent changes to both the way dodging attacks works, alongside the changes to Shadow Image means that Nightblades as a whole are a lot more slippery than before.
Now, I am no expert on the class, but if you want to bring them in line, a good way might be to increase the cost of Incap/Soul Harvest to 100.
This lowers their uptime on Major Slayer as a DPS, bringing them back into line with other classes, and it also means that they are forced to make more/longer engagements outside of their burst windows in PVP.
By doing that, all nbs that were there for major slayer will be replaced with Templars... you just killed pve nb...
They still have the highest baseline DPS beyond the Major Slayer uptime, and that gives Templars and Wardens a role in PVE DPS.
You do realize that it is not just major slayer that nbs are losing, it is also the damage boost which is why nbs slot and use it over the bow ult or another ult that is better single sustained target.
Technically a 100 cost ult for a NB, is an approx ~75 ult cost because of Catalyst and Transfer passives. That's for a stamblade, because with MagBlades using Swallow Soul and proc'ing Transfer far more often it's about ~60. Now, while stamblade will certainly lose PvE DPS due to such a cost increase, I don't think it'll put it behind the other classes but more on a par. It will certainly still be viable and the prime user of War Machine in a raid. That would be subject to testing of course, we won't know till we try. Till that point, it's only an opinion.
That said, I'm personally not fussed about PvE nerfs for NBs. I think other classes need a bit more help there, rather than nerfing NB. PvP is another question.
Templar: 3 ult/6 seconds + 20 sec minor sorcery (increasing mag dps dps) for potl or other dawns wrath ability cast which it is in their rotation = .5 ult/sec To get 72 ult you need 20.5 sec (72/(3 base ult + .5 ult/sec))
Warden: 4 ult/8 sec for using any animal companion abiity = .5 ult/sec To get 75 ult you need 21.4 sec, but you have the advantage to not break your rotation to use on cooldown
Nightblade: 20 ult/45 sec =.4444 ult/sec siphoner = 2 ult/4 sec = .5 ult/sec, but for stamblades is really about 2 ult/15-20 sec = .1-.133 ult/sec due to only casting leeching once per rotation or on cooldown. To get 100 ult you need 27.9-28.21 sec (magblades 24.2 sec)
These are all best case sincerios.
2 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Now, I am no expert on the class, but if you want to bring them in line, a good way might be to increase the cost of Incap/Soul Harvest to 100.
This lowers their uptime on Major Slayer as a DPS, bringing them back into line with other classes, and it also means that they are forced to make more/longer engagements outside of their burst windows in PVP.
or maybe bring back old soul harvest/incap with maybe old reapers mark?
where old incap was 50 ult cost but hist damage was much lower and it was higher damae when you had more ult, +- with this old incap you had to get maybe arounr 125-150 ult to get damage like now but at all you was able to "spam) it only for debufs because base damage was really low and stun was only when you had lower health % than your opponent
this old incap was really nice and fun in compare to this today which is now yes...some overpowered while this old one was fine, enough
and then maybe go to reaper mark...now its *** useful only against other nb but before this waspure gank skill reducing your opponet's and your resists by 75%....so you was able to make tank into almost glass cannon hile also hurting your own resists at same time and as for me this old reaper mark also was much better and more usevul than present1 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Lets not nerf NB damage, it fits the class well, and requires decent timing, works well in both PvE and PvP, and has enough counters.
*** defile though, that stuff OP, mainly because of the calculation being applied after the buffs, hitting your healing to a higher extent than buffs. Also because of how easy it is to get vs buffs.
I.e. 1000 x 1.5 = 1500. 1500 x 0.5 = 750. It should instead take away from the multiplier so you'd heal for the normal value of 1k.MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Why are Nightblades overperforming?
First of all, in PVE Nightblade is top dog as DPS because they have some of the highest ult regen, along with one of the cheapest ultimates in the game, giving them insane synergy with War Machine and Master Architect. Their innate 10% crit damage passive also interacts well with Mechanical Acuity. Having amazing synergy with the two premiere DPS sets in the game is obviously going to boost them into the top slot. The fact that with Siphoning they can actually sustain a ligght attack rotation, and thus weren't hit as hard by off balance changes is icing on the cake
In the same PVE vein, Mag Sorcs have seen a number of nerfs to reduce their damage output, Stam Sorcs and Stam DK's lost a lot of DPS from Off Balance changes, given its lower uptime. Templars didn't really get any help, or any nerfs, and wardens are still wardens.
So when everything else that is competing for the top DPS slot sees direct of indirect nerfs, the class that is able to abuse new gear the hardest, and the class that got a number of quality of life buffs alongside that is obviously going to flourish.
Now in terms of PVP, Nightblades have some pretty impressive burst damage, as well as the ability to reset a fight at will through a mixture of cloak, shadow image and healing.
Additionally the recent changes to both the way dodging attacks works, alongside the changes to Shadow Image means that Nightblades as a whole are a lot more slippery than before.
Now, I am no expert on the class, but if you want to bring them in line, a good way might be to increase the cost of Incap/Soul Harvest to 100.
This lowers their uptime on Major Slayer as a DPS, bringing them back into line with other classes, and it also means that they are forced to make more/longer engagements outside of their burst windows in PVP.
By doing that, all nbs that were there for major slayer will be replaced with Templars... you just killed pve nb...
They still have the highest baseline DPS beyond the Major Slayer uptime, and that gives Templars and Wardens a role in PVE DPS.
You do realize that it is not just major slayer that nbs are losing, it is also the damage boost which is why nbs slot and use it over the bow ult or another ult that is better single sustained target.
Technically a 100 cost ult for a NB, is an approx ~75 ult cost because of Catalyst and Transfer passives. That's for a stamblade, because with MagBlades using Swallow Soul and proc'ing Transfer far more often it's about ~60. Now, while stamblade will certainly lose PvE DPS due to such a cost increase, I don't think it'll put it behind the other classes but more on a par. It will certainly still be viable and the prime user of War Machine in a raid. That would be subject to testing of course, we won't know till we try. Till that point, it's only an opinion.
That said, I'm personally not fussed about PvE nerfs for NBs. I think other classes need a bit more help there, rather than nerfing NB. PvP is another question.
Templar: 3 ult/6 seconds + 20 sec minor sorcery (increasing mag dps dps) for potl or other dawns wrath ability cast which it is in their rotation = .5 ult/sec To get 72 ult you need 20.5 sec (72/(3 base ult + .5 ult/sec))
Warden: 4 ult/8 sec for using any animal companion abiity = .5 ult/sec To get 75 ult you need 21.4 sec, but you have the advantage to not break your rotation to use on cooldown
Nightblade: 20 ult/45 sec =.4444 ult/sec siphoner = 2 ult/4 sec = .5 ult/sec, but for stamblades is really about 2 ult/15-20 sec = .1-.133 ult/sec due to only casting leeching once per rotation or on cooldown. To get 100 ult you need 27.9-28.21 sec (magblades 24.2 sec)
These are all best case sincerios.
That all good, but:
a) Stam Warden DPS quite a bit lower than StamBlade with a crappy rotation and the 75 cost ult they have (Wild Guardian) is only useful at execute range. Not likely to take StamBlade's place anytime soon unless it receives severe buffs while NB gets nerfed at the same time. And..
b) Stamplar already gets a melee spot for PotL, Minor Fracture/Breach and Minor Sorcery with War Machine. Stacking 2 StamPlars will give you reduced benefit.
Ergo, StamBlade would not lose the melee spot it has. Nor would it stop using War Machine. Would it be a DPS nerf, yeah absolutely. Would it be top dog for single target deeps. Don't know, maybe not, we'd need to test. Would it be obsolete and non viable? No. It would still be stamblade, stamsorc, stamdk and stamplar on 4 melee deeps spots.
That's why I don't get the over dramatisation over a cost nerf.
EDIT: And as for Magblades who generate 100 ult every ~24". They'd still make all other magicka DPS obsolete bar one MagSorc for Off-Balance.
Edited by Maulkin on March 30, 2018 4:52PMEU | PC | AD0 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why are Nightblades overperforming?
First of all, in PVE Nightblade is top dog as DPS because they have some of the highest ult regen, along with one of the cheapest ultimates in the game, giving them insane synergy with War Machine and Master Architect. Their innate 10% crit damage passive also interacts well with Mechanical Acuity. Having amazing synergy with the two premiere DPS sets in the game is obviously going to boost them into the top slot. The fact that with Siphoning they can actually sustain a ligght attack rotation, and thus weren't hit as hard by off balance changes is icing on the cake
In the same PVE vein, Mag Sorcs have seen a number of nerfs to reduce their damage output, Stam Sorcs and Stam DK's lost a lot of DPS from Off Balance changes, given its lower uptime. Templars didn't really get any help, or any nerfs, and wardens are still wardens.
So when everything else that is competing for the top DPS slot sees direct of indirect nerfs, the class that is able to abuse new gear the hardest, and the class that got a number of quality of life buffs alongside that is obviously going to flourish.
Now in terms of PVP, Nightblades have some pretty impressive burst damage, as well as the ability to reset a fight at will through a mixture of cloak, shadow image and healing.
Additionally the recent changes to both the way dodging attacks works, alongside the changes to Shadow Image means that Nightblades as a whole are a lot more slippery than before.
Now, I am no expert on the class, but if you want to bring them in line, a good way might be to increase the cost of Incap/Soul Harvest to 100.
This lowers their uptime on Major Slayer as a DPS, bringing them back into line with other classes, and it also means that they are forced to make more/longer engagements outside of their burst windows in PVP.
By doing that, all nbs that were there for major slayer will be replaced with Templars... you just killed pve nb...
They still have the highest baseline DPS beyond the Major Slayer uptime, and that gives Templars and Wardens a role in PVE DPS.
You do realize that it is not just major slayer that nbs are losing, it is also the damage boost which is why nbs slot and use it over the bow ult or another ult that is better single sustained target.
Technically a 100 cost ult for a NB, is an approx ~75 ult cost because of Catalyst and Transfer passives. That's for a stamblade, because with MagBlades using Swallow Soul and proc'ing Transfer far more often it's about ~60. Now, while stamblade will certainly lose PvE DPS due to such a cost increase, I don't think it'll put it behind the other classes but more on a par. It will certainly still be viable and the prime user of War Machine in a raid. That would be subject to testing of course, we won't know till we try. Till that point, it's only an opinion.
That said, I'm personally not fussed about PvE nerfs for NBs. I think other classes need a bit more help there, rather than nerfing NB. PvP is another question.
Templar: 3 ult/6 seconds + 20 sec minor sorcery (increasing mag dps dps) for potl or other dawns wrath ability cast which it is in their rotation = .5 ult/sec To get 72 ult you need 20.5 sec (72/(3 base ult + .5 ult/sec))
Warden: 4 ult/8 sec for using any animal companion abiity = .5 ult/sec To get 75 ult you need 21.4 sec, but you have the advantage to not break your rotation to use on cooldown
Nightblade: 20 ult/45 sec =.4444 ult/sec siphoner = 2 ult/4 sec = .5 ult/sec, but for stamblades is really about 2 ult/15-20 sec = .1-.133 ult/sec due to only casting leeching once per rotation or on cooldown. To get 100 ult you need 27.9-28.21 sec (magblades 24.2 sec)
These are all best case sincerios.
That all good, but:
a) Stam Warden DPS quite a bit lower than StamBlade with a crappy rotation and the 75 cost ult they have (Wild Guardian) is only useful at execute range. Not likely to take StamBlade's place anytime soon unless it receives severe buffs while NB gets nerfed at the same time. And..
b) Stamplar already gets a melee spot for PotL, Minor Fracture/Breach and Minor Sorcery with War Machine. Stacking 2 StamPlars will give you reduced benefit.
Ergo, StamBlade would not lose the melee spot it has. Nor would it stop using War Machine. Would it be a DPS nerf, yeah absolutely. Would it be top dog for single target deeps. Don't know, maybe not, we'd need to test. Would it be obsolete and non viable? No. It would still be stamblade, stamsorc, stamdk and stamplar on 4 melee deeps spots.
That's why I don't get the over dramatisation over a cost nerf.
EDIT: And as for Magblades who generate 100 ult every ~24". They'd still make all other magicka DPS obsolete bar one MagSorc for Off-Balance.
If you nerf nb damage via nerfing incap uptime, I would expect to see more wardens and less nbs taking up dps slots as melee stamwarden raid parses have shown them to be not far behind nbs currently. If nb loses its damage advantage, I see no reason to bring them as they lose their group utility and templars and even wardens would bring better group utility at that point.0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Why are Nightblades overperforming?
First of all, in PVE Nightblade is top dog as DPS because they have some of the highest ult regen, along with one of the cheapest ultimates in the game, giving them insane synergy with War Machine and Master Architect. Their innate 10% crit damage passive also interacts well with Mechanical Acuity. Having amazing synergy with the two premiere DPS sets in the game is obviously going to boost them into the top slot. The fact that with Siphoning they can actually sustain a ligght attack rotation, and thus weren't hit as hard by off balance changes is icing on the cake
In the same PVE vein, Mag Sorcs have seen a number of nerfs to reduce their damage output, Stam Sorcs and Stam DK's lost a lot of DPS from Off Balance changes, given its lower uptime. Templars didn't really get any help, or any nerfs, and wardens are still wardens.
So when everything else that is competing for the top DPS slot sees direct of indirect nerfs, the class that is able to abuse new gear the hardest, and the class that got a number of quality of life buffs alongside that is obviously going to flourish.
Now in terms of PVP, Nightblades have some pretty impressive burst damage, as well as the ability to reset a fight at will through a mixture of cloak, shadow image and healing.
Additionally the recent changes to both the way dodging attacks works, alongside the changes to Shadow Image means that Nightblades as a whole are a lot more slippery than before.
Now, I am no expert on the class, but if you want to bring them in line, a good way might be to increase the cost of Incap/Soul Harvest to 100.
This lowers their uptime on Major Slayer as a DPS, bringing them back into line with other classes, and it also means that they are forced to make more/longer engagements outside of their burst windows in PVP.
By doing that, all nbs that were there for major slayer will be replaced with Templars... you just killed pve nb...
They still have the highest baseline DPS beyond the Major Slayer uptime, and that gives Templars and Wardens a role in PVE DPS.
You do realize that it is not just major slayer that nbs are losing, it is also the damage boost which is why nbs slot and use it over the bow ult or another ult that is better single sustained target.
Technically a 100 cost ult for a NB, is an approx ~75 ult cost because of Catalyst and Transfer passives. That's for a stamblade, because with MagBlades using Swallow Soul and proc'ing Transfer far more often it's about ~60. Now, while stamblade will certainly lose PvE DPS due to such a cost increase, I don't think it'll put it behind the other classes but more on a par. It will certainly still be viable and the prime user of War Machine in a raid. That would be subject to testing of course, we won't know till we try. Till that point, it's only an opinion.
That said, I'm personally not fussed about PvE nerfs for NBs. I think other classes need a bit more help there, rather than nerfing NB. PvP is another question.
Templar: 3 ult/6 seconds + 20 sec minor sorcery (increasing mag dps dps) for potl or other dawns wrath ability cast which it is in their rotation = .5 ult/sec To get 72 ult you need 20.5 sec (72/(3 base ult + .5 ult/sec))
Warden: 4 ult/8 sec for using any animal companion abiity = .5 ult/sec To get 75 ult you need 21.4 sec, but you have the advantage to not break your rotation to use on cooldown
Nightblade: 20 ult/45 sec =.4444 ult/sec siphoner = 2 ult/4 sec = .5 ult/sec, but for stamblades is really about 2 ult/15-20 sec = .1-.133 ult/sec due to only casting leeching once per rotation or on cooldown. To get 100 ult you need 27.9-28.21 sec (magblades 24.2 sec)
These are all best case sincerios.
That all good, but:
a) Stam Warden DPS quite a bit lower than StamBlade with a crappy rotation and the 75 cost ult they have (Wild Guardian) is only useful at execute range. Not likely to take StamBlade's place anytime soon unless it receives severe buffs while NB gets nerfed at the same time. And..
b) Stamplar already gets a melee spot for PotL, Minor Fracture/Breach and Minor Sorcery with War Machine. Stacking 2 StamPlars will give you reduced benefit.
Ergo, StamBlade would not lose the melee spot it has. Nor would it stop using War Machine. Would it be a DPS nerf, yeah absolutely. Would it be top dog for single target deeps. Don't know, maybe not, we'd need to test. Would it be obsolete and non viable? No. It would still be stamblade, stamsorc, stamdk and stamplar on 4 melee deeps spots.
That's why I don't get the over dramatisation over a cost nerf.
EDIT: And as for Magblades who generate 100 ult every ~24". They'd still make all other magicka DPS obsolete bar one MagSorc for Off-Balance.
If you nerf nb damage via nerfing incap uptime, I would expect to see more wardens and less nbs taking up dps slots as melee stamwarden raid parses have shown them to be not far behind nbs currently. If nb loses its damage advantage, I see no reason to bring them as they lose their group utility and templars and even wardens would bring better group utility at that point.
I have yet to see a raid parse that puts StamWarden within 5k dps range of a StamBlade, given same number of deaths (0) for both and similarly skilled/experience players. But I'd be happy to be proven wrong if you have good examples. Otherwise I would argue StamBlade has quite a bit of margin before it comes under threat from Warden.
I personally wouldn't expect StamDen to out-dps StamBlade in the case of an Incap cost increase, but it'd be closer for sure. All that, subject to testing of course. I also don't see how StamBlade loses its utility and how Warden offers more. The only thing Warden can offer is Minor Toughness. Which is offered by the off-tank usually.
Although, like I said, this is an academic discussion. I don't want NB dps nerfed. I also don't want its kill potential in PvP nerf. What I'm arguing with you here, is that it could afford a DPS nerf without coming under pressure for its spot.EU | PC | AD0 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why are Nightblades overperforming?
First of all, in PVE Nightblade is top dog as DPS because they have some of the highest ult regen, along with one of the cheapest ultimates in the game, giving them insane synergy with War Machine and Master Architect. Their innate 10% crit damage passive also interacts well with Mechanical Acuity. Having amazing synergy with the two premiere DPS sets in the game is obviously going to boost them into the top slot. The fact that with Siphoning they can actually sustain a ligght attack rotation, and thus weren't hit as hard by off balance changes is icing on the cake
In the same PVE vein, Mag Sorcs have seen a number of nerfs to reduce their damage output, Stam Sorcs and Stam DK's lost a lot of DPS from Off Balance changes, given its lower uptime. Templars didn't really get any help, or any nerfs, and wardens are still wardens.
So when everything else that is competing for the top DPS slot sees direct of indirect nerfs, the class that is able to abuse new gear the hardest, and the class that got a number of quality of life buffs alongside that is obviously going to flourish.
Now in terms of PVP, Nightblades have some pretty impressive burst damage, as well as the ability to reset a fight at will through a mixture of cloak, shadow image and healing.
Additionally the recent changes to both the way dodging attacks works, alongside the changes to Shadow Image means that Nightblades as a whole are a lot more slippery than before.
Now, I am no expert on the class, but if you want to bring them in line, a good way might be to increase the cost of Incap/Soul Harvest to 100.
This lowers their uptime on Major Slayer as a DPS, bringing them back into line with other classes, and it also means that they are forced to make more/longer engagements outside of their burst windows in PVP.
By doing that, all nbs that were there for major slayer will be replaced with Templars... you just killed pve nb...
They still have the highest baseline DPS beyond the Major Slayer uptime, and that gives Templars and Wardens a role in PVE DPS.
You do realize that it is not just major slayer that nbs are losing, it is also the damage boost which is why nbs slot and use it over the bow ult or another ult that is better single sustained target.
Technically a 100 cost ult for a NB, is an approx ~75 ult cost because of Catalyst and Transfer passives. That's for a stamblade, because with MagBlades using Swallow Soul and proc'ing Transfer far more often it's about ~60. Now, while stamblade will certainly lose PvE DPS due to such a cost increase, I don't think it'll put it behind the other classes but more on a par. It will certainly still be viable and the prime user of War Machine in a raid. That would be subject to testing of course, we won't know till we try. Till that point, it's only an opinion.
That said, I'm personally not fussed about PvE nerfs for NBs. I think other classes need a bit more help there, rather than nerfing NB. PvP is another question.
Templar: 3 ult/6 seconds + 20 sec minor sorcery (increasing mag dps dps) for potl or other dawns wrath ability cast which it is in their rotation = .5 ult/sec To get 72 ult you need 20.5 sec (72/(3 base ult + .5 ult/sec))
Warden: 4 ult/8 sec for using any animal companion abiity = .5 ult/sec To get 75 ult you need 21.4 sec, but you have the advantage to not break your rotation to use on cooldown
Nightblade: 20 ult/45 sec =.4444 ult/sec siphoner = 2 ult/4 sec = .5 ult/sec, but for stamblades is really about 2 ult/15-20 sec = .1-.133 ult/sec due to only casting leeching once per rotation or on cooldown. To get 100 ult you need 27.9-28.21 sec (magblades 24.2 sec)
These are all best case sincerios.
That all good, but:
a) Stam Warden DPS quite a bit lower than StamBlade with a crappy rotation and the 75 cost ult they have (Wild Guardian) is only useful at execute range. Not likely to take StamBlade's place anytime soon unless it receives severe buffs while NB gets nerfed at the same time. And..
b) Stamplar already gets a melee spot for PotL, Minor Fracture/Breach and Minor Sorcery with War Machine. Stacking 2 StamPlars will give you reduced benefit.
Ergo, StamBlade would not lose the melee spot it has. Nor would it stop using War Machine. Would it be a DPS nerf, yeah absolutely. Would it be top dog for single target deeps. Don't know, maybe not, we'd need to test. Would it be obsolete and non viable? No. It would still be stamblade, stamsorc, stamdk and stamplar on 4 melee deeps spots.
That's why I don't get the over dramatisation over a cost nerf.
EDIT: And as for Magblades who generate 100 ult every ~24". They'd still make all other magicka DPS obsolete bar one MagSorc for Off-Balance.
If you nerf nb damage via nerfing incap uptime, I would expect to see more wardens and less nbs taking up dps slots as melee stamwarden raid parses have shown them to be not far behind nbs currently. If nb loses its damage advantage, I see no reason to bring them as they lose their group utility and templars and even wardens would bring better group utility at that point.
I have yet to see a raid parse that puts StamWarden within 5k dps range of a StamBlade, given same number of deaths (0) for both and similarly skilled/experience players. But I'd be happy to be proven wrong if you have good examples. Otherwise I would argue StamBlade has quite a bit of margin before it comes under threat from Warden.
I personally wouldn't expect StamDen to out-dps StamBlade in the case of an Incap cost increase, but it'd be closer for sure. All that, subject to testing of course. I also don't see how StamBlade loses its utility and how Warden offers more. The only thing Warden can offer is Minor Toughness. Which is offered by the off-tank usually.
Although, like I said, this is an academic discussion. I don't want NB dps nerfed. I also don't want its kill potential in PvP nerf. What I'm arguing with you here, is that it could afford a DPS nerf without coming under pressure for its spot.
https://youtu.be/XOKssWYjkc8
This is not my parse, bit this is a sub optimized group and this warden hit 61k0 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why are Nightblades overperforming?
First of all, in PVE Nightblade is top dog as DPS because they have some of the highest ult regen, along with one of the cheapest ultimates in the game, giving them insane synergy with War Machine and Master Architect. Their innate 10% crit damage passive also interacts well with Mechanical Acuity. Having amazing synergy with the two premiere DPS sets in the game is obviously going to boost them into the top slot. The fact that with Siphoning they can actually sustain a ligght attack rotation, and thus weren't hit as hard by off balance changes is icing on the cake
In the same PVE vein, Mag Sorcs have seen a number of nerfs to reduce their damage output, Stam Sorcs and Stam DK's lost a lot of DPS from Off Balance changes, given its lower uptime. Templars didn't really get any help, or any nerfs, and wardens are still wardens.
So when everything else that is competing for the top DPS slot sees direct of indirect nerfs, the class that is able to abuse new gear the hardest, and the class that got a number of quality of life buffs alongside that is obviously going to flourish.
Now in terms of PVP, Nightblades have some pretty impressive burst damage, as well as the ability to reset a fight at will through a mixture of cloak, shadow image and healing.
Additionally the recent changes to both the way dodging attacks works, alongside the changes to Shadow Image means that Nightblades as a whole are a lot more slippery than before.
Now, I am no expert on the class, but if you want to bring them in line, a good way might be to increase the cost of Incap/Soul Harvest to 100.
This lowers their uptime on Major Slayer as a DPS, bringing them back into line with other classes, and it also means that they are forced to make more/longer engagements outside of their burst windows in PVP.
By doing that, all nbs that were there for major slayer will be replaced with Templars... you just killed pve nb...
They still have the highest baseline DPS beyond the Major Slayer uptime, and that gives Templars and Wardens a role in PVE DPS.
You do realize that it is not just major slayer that nbs are losing, it is also the damage boost which is why nbs slot and use it over the bow ult or another ult that is better single sustained target.
Technically a 100 cost ult for a NB, is an approx ~75 ult cost because of Catalyst and Transfer passives. That's for a stamblade, because with MagBlades using Swallow Soul and proc'ing Transfer far more often it's about ~60. Now, while stamblade will certainly lose PvE DPS due to such a cost increase, I don't think it'll put it behind the other classes but more on a par. It will certainly still be viable and the prime user of War Machine in a raid. That would be subject to testing of course, we won't know till we try. Till that point, it's only an opinion.
That said, I'm personally not fussed about PvE nerfs for NBs. I think other classes need a bit more help there, rather than nerfing NB. PvP is another question.
Templar: 3 ult/6 seconds + 20 sec minor sorcery (increasing mag dps dps) for potl or other dawns wrath ability cast which it is in their rotation = .5 ult/sec To get 72 ult you need 20.5 sec (72/(3 base ult + .5 ult/sec))
Warden: 4 ult/8 sec for using any animal companion abiity = .5 ult/sec To get 75 ult you need 21.4 sec, but you have the advantage to not break your rotation to use on cooldown
Nightblade: 20 ult/45 sec =.4444 ult/sec siphoner = 2 ult/4 sec = .5 ult/sec, but for stamblades is really about 2 ult/15-20 sec = .1-.133 ult/sec due to only casting leeching once per rotation or on cooldown. To get 100 ult you need 27.9-28.21 sec (magblades 24.2 sec)
These are all best case sincerios.
That all good, but:
a) Stam Warden DPS quite a bit lower than StamBlade with a crappy rotation and the 75 cost ult they have (Wild Guardian) is only useful at execute range. Not likely to take StamBlade's place anytime soon unless it receives severe buffs while NB gets nerfed at the same time. And..
b) Stamplar already gets a melee spot for PotL, Minor Fracture/Breach and Minor Sorcery with War Machine. Stacking 2 StamPlars will give you reduced benefit.
Ergo, StamBlade would not lose the melee spot it has. Nor would it stop using War Machine. Would it be a DPS nerf, yeah absolutely. Would it be top dog for single target deeps. Don't know, maybe not, we'd need to test. Would it be obsolete and non viable? No. It would still be stamblade, stamsorc, stamdk and stamplar on 4 melee deeps spots.
That's why I don't get the over dramatisation over a cost nerf.
EDIT: And as for Magblades who generate 100 ult every ~24". They'd still make all other magicka DPS obsolete bar one MagSorc for Off-Balance.
If you nerf nb damage via nerfing incap uptime, I would expect to see more wardens and less nbs taking up dps slots as melee stamwarden raid parses have shown them to be not far behind nbs currently. If nb loses its damage advantage, I see no reason to bring them as they lose their group utility and templars and even wardens would bring better group utility at that point.
I have yet to see a raid parse that puts StamWarden within 5k dps range of a StamBlade, given same number of deaths (0) for both and similarly skilled/experience players. But I'd be happy to be proven wrong if you have good examples. Otherwise I would argue StamBlade has quite a bit of margin before it comes under threat from Warden.
I personally wouldn't expect StamDen to out-dps StamBlade in the case of an Incap cost increase, but it'd be closer for sure. All that, subject to testing of course. I also don't see how StamBlade loses its utility and how Warden offers more. The only thing Warden can offer is Minor Toughness. Which is offered by the off-tank usually.
Although, like I said, this is an academic discussion. I don't want NB dps nerfed. I also don't want its kill potential in PvP nerf. What I'm arguing with you here, is that it could afford a DPS nerf without coming under pressure for its spot.https://youtu.be/XOKssWYjkc8
This is not my parse, bit this is a sub optimized group and this warden hit 61k
Edit: think about the dps for an optimized group0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Why are Nightblades overperforming?
First of all, in PVE Nightblade is top dog as DPS because they have some of the highest ult regen, along with one of the cheapest ultimates in the game, giving them insane synergy with War Machine and Master Architect. Their innate 10% crit damage passive also interacts well with Mechanical Acuity. Having amazing synergy with the two premiere DPS sets in the game is obviously going to boost them into the top slot. The fact that with Siphoning they can actually sustain a ligght attack rotation, and thus weren't hit as hard by off balance changes is icing on the cake
In the same PVE vein, Mag Sorcs have seen a number of nerfs to reduce their damage output, Stam Sorcs and Stam DK's lost a lot of DPS from Off Balance changes, given its lower uptime. Templars didn't really get any help, or any nerfs, and wardens are still wardens.
So when everything else that is competing for the top DPS slot sees direct of indirect nerfs, the class that is able to abuse new gear the hardest, and the class that got a number of quality of life buffs alongside that is obviously going to flourish.
Now in terms of PVP, Nightblades have some pretty impressive burst damage, as well as the ability to reset a fight at will through a mixture of cloak, shadow image and healing.
Additionally the recent changes to both the way dodging attacks works, alongside the changes to Shadow Image means that Nightblades as a whole are a lot more slippery than before.
Now, I am no expert on the class, but if you want to bring them in line, a good way might be to increase the cost of Incap/Soul Harvest to 100.
This lowers their uptime on Major Slayer as a DPS, bringing them back into line with other classes, and it also means that they are forced to make more/longer engagements outside of their burst windows in PVP.
By doing that, all nbs that were there for major slayer will be replaced with Templars... you just killed pve nb...
They still have the highest baseline DPS beyond the Major Slayer uptime, and that gives Templars and Wardens a role in PVE DPS.
You do realize that it is not just major slayer that nbs are losing, it is also the damage boost which is why nbs slot and use it over the bow ult or another ult that is better single sustained target.
Technically a 100 cost ult for a NB, is an approx ~75 ult cost because of Catalyst and Transfer passives. That's for a stamblade, because with MagBlades using Swallow Soul and proc'ing Transfer far more often it's about ~60. Now, while stamblade will certainly lose PvE DPS due to such a cost increase, I don't think it'll put it behind the other classes but more on a par. It will certainly still be viable and the prime user of War Machine in a raid. That would be subject to testing of course, we won't know till we try. Till that point, it's only an opinion.
That said, I'm personally not fussed about PvE nerfs for NBs. I think other classes need a bit more help there, rather than nerfing NB. PvP is another question.
Templar: 3 ult/6 seconds + 20 sec minor sorcery (increasing mag dps dps) for potl or other dawns wrath ability cast which it is in their rotation = .5 ult/sec To get 72 ult you need 20.5 sec (72/(3 base ult + .5 ult/sec))
Warden: 4 ult/8 sec for using any animal companion abiity = .5 ult/sec To get 75 ult you need 21.4 sec, but you have the advantage to not break your rotation to use on cooldown
Nightblade: 20 ult/45 sec =.4444 ult/sec siphoner = 2 ult/4 sec = .5 ult/sec, but for stamblades is really about 2 ult/15-20 sec = .1-.133 ult/sec due to only casting leeching once per rotation or on cooldown. To get 100 ult you need 27.9-28.21 sec (magblades 24.2 sec)
These are all best case sincerios.
That all good, but:
a) Stam Warden DPS quite a bit lower than StamBlade with a crappy rotation and the 75 cost ult they have (Wild Guardian) is only useful at execute range. Not likely to take StamBlade's place anytime soon unless it receives severe buffs while NB gets nerfed at the same time. And..
b) Stamplar already gets a melee spot for PotL, Minor Fracture/Breach and Minor Sorcery with War Machine. Stacking 2 StamPlars will give you reduced benefit.
Ergo, StamBlade would not lose the melee spot it has. Nor would it stop using War Machine. Would it be a DPS nerf, yeah absolutely. Would it be top dog for single target deeps. Don't know, maybe not, we'd need to test. Would it be obsolete and non viable? No. It would still be stamblade, stamsorc, stamdk and stamplar on 4 melee deeps spots.
That's why I don't get the over dramatisation over a cost nerf.
EDIT: And as for Magblades who generate 100 ult every ~24". They'd still make all other magicka DPS obsolete bar one MagSorc for Off-Balance.
If you nerf nb damage via nerfing incap uptime, I would expect to see more wardens and less nbs taking up dps slots as melee stamwarden raid parses have shown them to be not far behind nbs currently. If nb loses its damage advantage, I see no reason to bring them as they lose their group utility and templars and even wardens would bring better group utility at that point.
I have yet to see a raid parse that puts StamWarden within 5k dps range of a StamBlade, given same number of deaths (0) for both and similarly skilled/experience players. But I'd be happy to be proven wrong if you have good examples. Otherwise I would argue StamBlade has quite a bit of margin before it comes under threat from Warden.
I personally wouldn't expect StamDen to out-dps StamBlade in the case of an Incap cost increase, but it'd be closer for sure. All that, subject to testing of course. I also don't see how StamBlade loses its utility and how Warden offers more. The only thing Warden can offer is Minor Toughness. Which is offered by the off-tank usually.
Although, like I said, this is an academic discussion. I don't want NB dps nerfed. I also don't want its kill potential in PvP nerf. What I'm arguing with you here, is that it could afford a DPS nerf without coming under pressure for its spot.https://youtu.be/XOKssWYjkc8
This is not my parse, bit this is a sub optimized group and this warden hit 61k
That's a good parse. But it's still +10k below what good StamBlade's parse or Rakkhat. Which is why I said that unless I see evidence of them getting within 5k of stamblades currently, I wouldn't be worried in the slightest. I have yet to see that.
Here's Warfire, parsing 72.5k on Rakkhat.
Edited by Maulkin on March 30, 2018 5:58PMEU | PC | AD0 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why are Nightblades overperforming?
First of all, in PVE Nightblade is top dog as DPS because they have some of the highest ult regen, along with one of the cheapest ultimates in the game, giving them insane synergy with War Machine and Master Architect. Their innate 10% crit damage passive also interacts well with Mechanical Acuity. Having amazing synergy with the two premiere DPS sets in the game is obviously going to boost them into the top slot. The fact that with Siphoning they can actually sustain a ligght attack rotation, and thus weren't hit as hard by off balance changes is icing on the cake
In the same PVE vein, Mag Sorcs have seen a number of nerfs to reduce their damage output, Stam Sorcs and Stam DK's lost a lot of DPS from Off Balance changes, given its lower uptime. Templars didn't really get any help, or any nerfs, and wardens are still wardens.
So when everything else that is competing for the top DPS slot sees direct of indirect nerfs, the class that is able to abuse new gear the hardest, and the class that got a number of quality of life buffs alongside that is obviously going to flourish.
Now in terms of PVP, Nightblades have some pretty impressive burst damage, as well as the ability to reset a fight at will through a mixture of cloak, shadow image and healing.
Additionally the recent changes to both the way dodging attacks works, alongside the changes to Shadow Image means that Nightblades as a whole are a lot more slippery than before.
Now, I am no expert on the class, but if you want to bring them in line, a good way might be to increase the cost of Incap/Soul Harvest to 100.
This lowers their uptime on Major Slayer as a DPS, bringing them back into line with other classes, and it also means that they are forced to make more/longer engagements outside of their burst windows in PVP.
By doing that, all nbs that were there for major slayer will be replaced with Templars... you just killed pve nb...
They still have the highest baseline DPS beyond the Major Slayer uptime, and that gives Templars and Wardens a role in PVE DPS.
You do realize that it is not just major slayer that nbs are losing, it is also the damage boost which is why nbs slot and use it over the bow ult or another ult that is better single sustained target.
Technically a 100 cost ult for a NB, is an approx ~75 ult cost because of Catalyst and Transfer passives. That's for a stamblade, because with MagBlades using Swallow Soul and proc'ing Transfer far more often it's about ~60. Now, while stamblade will certainly lose PvE DPS due to such a cost increase, I don't think it'll put it behind the other classes but more on a par. It will certainly still be viable and the prime user of War Machine in a raid. That would be subject to testing of course, we won't know till we try. Till that point, it's only an opinion.
That said, I'm personally not fussed about PvE nerfs for NBs. I think other classes need a bit more help there, rather than nerfing NB. PvP is another question.
Templar: 3 ult/6 seconds + 20 sec minor sorcery (increasing mag dps dps) for potl or other dawns wrath ability cast which it is in their rotation = .5 ult/sec To get 72 ult you need 20.5 sec (72/(3 base ult + .5 ult/sec))
Warden: 4 ult/8 sec for using any animal companion abiity = .5 ult/sec To get 75 ult you need 21.4 sec, but you have the advantage to not break your rotation to use on cooldown
Nightblade: 20 ult/45 sec =.4444 ult/sec siphoner = 2 ult/4 sec = .5 ult/sec, but for stamblades is really about 2 ult/15-20 sec = .1-.133 ult/sec due to only casting leeching once per rotation or on cooldown. To get 100 ult you need 27.9-28.21 sec (magblades 24.2 sec)
These are all best case sincerios.
That all good, but:
a) Stam Warden DPS quite a bit lower than StamBlade with a crappy rotation and the 75 cost ult they have (Wild Guardian) is only useful at execute range. Not likely to take StamBlade's place anytime soon unless it receives severe buffs while NB gets nerfed at the same time. And..
b) Stamplar already gets a melee spot for PotL, Minor Fracture/Breach and Minor Sorcery with War Machine. Stacking 2 StamPlars will give you reduced benefit.
Ergo, StamBlade would not lose the melee spot it has. Nor would it stop using War Machine. Would it be a DPS nerf, yeah absolutely. Would it be top dog for single target deeps. Don't know, maybe not, we'd need to test. Would it be obsolete and non viable? No. It would still be stamblade, stamsorc, stamdk and stamplar on 4 melee deeps spots.
That's why I don't get the over dramatisation over a cost nerf.
EDIT: And as for Magblades who generate 100 ult every ~24". They'd still make all other magicka DPS obsolete bar one MagSorc for Off-Balance.
If you nerf nb damage via nerfing incap uptime, I would expect to see more wardens and less nbs taking up dps slots as melee stamwarden raid parses have shown them to be not far behind nbs currently. If nb loses its damage advantage, I see no reason to bring them as they lose their group utility and templars and even wardens would bring better group utility at that point.
I have yet to see a raid parse that puts StamWarden within 5k dps range of a StamBlade, given same number of deaths (0) for both and similarly skilled/experience players. But I'd be happy to be proven wrong if you have good examples. Otherwise I would argue StamBlade has quite a bit of margin before it comes under threat from Warden.
I personally wouldn't expect StamDen to out-dps StamBlade in the case of an Incap cost increase, but it'd be closer for sure. All that, subject to testing of course. I also don't see how StamBlade loses its utility and how Warden offers more. The only thing Warden can offer is Minor Toughness. Which is offered by the off-tank usually.
Although, like I said, this is an academic discussion. I don't want NB dps nerfed. I also don't want its kill potential in PvP nerf. What I'm arguing with you here, is that it could afford a DPS nerf without coming under pressure for its spot.https://youtu.be/XOKssWYjkc8
This is not my parse, bit this is a sub optimized group and this warden hit 61k
That's a good parse. But it's still +10k below what good StamBlade's parse or Rakkhat. Which is why I said that unless I see evidence of them getting within 5k of stamblades currently, I wouldn't be worried in the slightest. I have yet to see that.
Here's Warfire, parsing 72.5k on Rakkhat.
It was a sub optimized group0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Why are Nightblades overperforming?
First of all, in PVE Nightblade is top dog as DPS because they have some of the highest ult regen, along with one of the cheapest ultimates in the game, giving them insane synergy with War Machine and Master Architect. Their innate 10% crit damage passive also interacts well with Mechanical Acuity. Having amazing synergy with the two premiere DPS sets in the game is obviously going to boost them into the top slot. The fact that with Siphoning they can actually sustain a ligght attack rotation, and thus weren't hit as hard by off balance changes is icing on the cake
In the same PVE vein, Mag Sorcs have seen a number of nerfs to reduce their damage output, Stam Sorcs and Stam DK's lost a lot of DPS from Off Balance changes, given its lower uptime. Templars didn't really get any help, or any nerfs, and wardens are still wardens.
So when everything else that is competing for the top DPS slot sees direct of indirect nerfs, the class that is able to abuse new gear the hardest, and the class that got a number of quality of life buffs alongside that is obviously going to flourish.
Now in terms of PVP, Nightblades have some pretty impressive burst damage, as well as the ability to reset a fight at will through a mixture of cloak, shadow image and healing.
Additionally the recent changes to both the way dodging attacks works, alongside the changes to Shadow Image means that Nightblades as a whole are a lot more slippery than before.
Now, I am no expert on the class, but if you want to bring them in line, a good way might be to increase the cost of Incap/Soul Harvest to 100.
This lowers their uptime on Major Slayer as a DPS, bringing them back into line with other classes, and it also means that they are forced to make more/longer engagements outside of their burst windows in PVP.
By doing that, all nbs that were there for major slayer will be replaced with Templars... you just killed pve nb...
They still have the highest baseline DPS beyond the Major Slayer uptime, and that gives Templars and Wardens a role in PVE DPS.
You do realize that it is not just major slayer that nbs are losing, it is also the damage boost which is why nbs slot and use it over the bow ult or another ult that is better single sustained target.
Technically a 100 cost ult for a NB, is an approx ~75 ult cost because of Catalyst and Transfer passives. That's for a stamblade, because with MagBlades using Swallow Soul and proc'ing Transfer far more often it's about ~60. Now, while stamblade will certainly lose PvE DPS due to such a cost increase, I don't think it'll put it behind the other classes but more on a par. It will certainly still be viable and the prime user of War Machine in a raid. That would be subject to testing of course, we won't know till we try. Till that point, it's only an opinion.
That said, I'm personally not fussed about PvE nerfs for NBs. I think other classes need a bit more help there, rather than nerfing NB. PvP is another question.
Templar: 3 ult/6 seconds + 20 sec minor sorcery (increasing mag dps dps) for potl or other dawns wrath ability cast which it is in their rotation = .5 ult/sec To get 72 ult you need 20.5 sec (72/(3 base ult + .5 ult/sec))
Warden: 4 ult/8 sec for using any animal companion abiity = .5 ult/sec To get 75 ult you need 21.4 sec, but you have the advantage to not break your rotation to use on cooldown
Nightblade: 20 ult/45 sec =.4444 ult/sec siphoner = 2 ult/4 sec = .5 ult/sec, but for stamblades is really about 2 ult/15-20 sec = .1-.133 ult/sec due to only casting leeching once per rotation or on cooldown. To get 100 ult you need 27.9-28.21 sec (magblades 24.2 sec)
These are all best case sincerios.
That all good, but:
a) Stam Warden DPS quite a bit lower than StamBlade with a crappy rotation and the 75 cost ult they have (Wild Guardian) is only useful at execute range. Not likely to take StamBlade's place anytime soon unless it receives severe buffs while NB gets nerfed at the same time. And..
b) Stamplar already gets a melee spot for PotL, Minor Fracture/Breach and Minor Sorcery with War Machine. Stacking 2 StamPlars will give you reduced benefit.
Ergo, StamBlade would not lose the melee spot it has. Nor would it stop using War Machine. Would it be a DPS nerf, yeah absolutely. Would it be top dog for single target deeps. Don't know, maybe not, we'd need to test. Would it be obsolete and non viable? No. It would still be stamblade, stamsorc, stamdk and stamplar on 4 melee deeps spots.
That's why I don't get the over dramatisation over a cost nerf.
EDIT: And as for Magblades who generate 100 ult every ~24". They'd still make all other magicka DPS obsolete bar one MagSorc for Off-Balance.
If you nerf nb damage via nerfing incap uptime, I would expect to see more wardens and less nbs taking up dps slots as melee stamwarden raid parses have shown them to be not far behind nbs currently. If nb loses its damage advantage, I see no reason to bring them as they lose their group utility and templars and even wardens would bring better group utility at that point.
I have yet to see a raid parse that puts StamWarden within 5k dps range of a StamBlade, given same number of deaths (0) for both and similarly skilled/experience players. But I'd be happy to be proven wrong if you have good examples. Otherwise I would argue StamBlade has quite a bit of margin before it comes under threat from Warden.
I personally wouldn't expect StamDen to out-dps StamBlade in the case of an Incap cost increase, but it'd be closer for sure. All that, subject to testing of course. I also don't see how StamBlade loses its utility and how Warden offers more. The only thing Warden can offer is Minor Toughness. Which is offered by the off-tank usually.
Although, like I said, this is an academic discussion. I don't want NB dps nerfed. I also don't want its kill potential in PvP nerf. What I'm arguing with you here, is that it could afford a DPS nerf without coming under pressure for its spot.https://youtu.be/XOKssWYjkc8
This is not my parse, bit this is a sub optimized group and this warden hit 61k
That's a good parse. But it's still +10k below what good StamBlade's parse or Rakkhat. Which is why I said that unless I see evidence of them getting within 5k of stamblades currently, I wouldn't be worried in the slightest. I have yet to see that.
Here's Warfire, parsing 72.5k on Rakkhat.
It was a sub optimized group
Yeah, you said that. But how sub-optimised was it and how much dps gain should we expect from the Warden in a more optimised group? I can't just take it at face value that the group is sub-optimal and slap an expected 10k dps more on the Warden "just because". The group could have cost him only 2-3k dps max, or 5k, I don't know that.
If I see a StamDen getting at near 70k dps on Rakkhat then I'd say he's a threat to NB, if Incap gets nerfed. But based on what I know and see so far, StamBlade (and ManaBlade) can take a nerf without even flinching. If either of them lost 5k deeps, they'd still retain their spots. All that gets hurt is egos.
Edited by Maulkin on March 30, 2018 6:30PMEU | PC | AD0 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
There is plenty of ways to nerf stamina nb effectiveness in PvP without even touching his PvE effectiveness. The funny fact is atm stamina nb started to be top dog in PvE also.Edited by Juhasow on March 31, 2018 1:27PM0
https://youtube.com/watch?v=oxmFKxPQCzk