Nightblade, tears everywhere.

ErMurazor

Nightblades havent gott a buff for ages. Nerfs last year as I recall:

Incap cost increase
10% critdamage passive removed
Fear nerf
Siph attacks nerf.

Suddenly ppl scream their lungs out that NBs are OP.

What changed the last months?

I'll tell ya. Cloak and Shadow Image actually got fixed after being broken and miats crutch addon got nerfed. Thats about it.

I cant even recall the last time stamblades got a buff. Its been nerf after nerf every dlc.

Maulkin

Ah yes, Relentless/Merciless retaining their stacks was not a buff.
Shadow Image telling you when you're out of range, is not a buff.
Turning about 4-5 undodgeable abilities that were previously a strong counter to rolly-polly stamblades into dodgeable ones or nerfing Soul Assault, was not an indirect buff.

All the other classes are getting buff after buff and NBs getting all nerfs.. It's a cospiracy I tell ya!

Checkmath

Nightblades also profit a lot from the offbalance changes made this patch. As nb you can set enemies offbalance very easely, which helps out your sustain with heavy attacks.

Azurya

you forget the nerf to the gapcloser!
True other gapcloser got it too, but sorcs can still float around, nothing changed here!
and we got the harikari-heal, which is good for nothing!

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Wrobel is it possible to show some love for the nightblade-class!
it is about time!

Brrrofski

I think they're mostly fine as they are. I just think the befoul CP is way too strong. That's the biggest issue.

Feanor

Worthy to note:

- Incap was the cheapest ultimate in the game at 50 ultimate and between Catalyst and Combat Frenzy almost a spammable ability.
- The passive that increases critical damage done by 10% is still there (Hemmorhage). The bonus damage from attacking from stealth was removed - for everyone though.
- Mass Hysteria only CCs 2 targets now instead of 3, but it is still the only non-ultimate AoE hard CC in the game (and very buggy to the benefit of the NB often). Besides, the new trap fear together with a working shade is arguably a buff if you believe NBs like @DDuke and others.
- Siphoning Strikes was nerfed, but regeneration related skills took a hit for every class (Repentance, Helping Hands, Battle Roar, Conversion) and according to Raid NBs the ability still allows them to sustain a light attack rotation in PvE and is solid in PvP. NB Tanks got shafted though.

Turelus

I've been trying to figure it out as well, I just guessed it was our time to have people cry about everything until a token change is made.

Most of the time complaints from PvP comes down to the fact people refuse to change their "unstoppable build" to counter Nightblades or being mad they can't get a kill because the Nightblade got away.

Maulkin

Turelus wrote: »

I've been trying to figure it out as well, I just guessed it was our time to have people cry about everything until a token change is made.

Most of the time complaints from PvP comes down to the fact people refuse to change their "unstoppable build" to counter Nightblades or being mad they can't get a kill because the Nightblade got away.

You mustn't have tried that hard, it's all in the patch notes

Turelus

Maulkin wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

I've been trying to figure it out as well, I just guessed it was our time to have people cry about everything until a token change is made.

Most of the time complaints from PvP comes down to the fact people refuse to change their "unstoppable build" to counter Nightblades or being mad they can't get a kill because the Nightblade got away.

You mustn't have tried that hard, it's all in the patch notes

Is that what the mystery 70mb was, a Nightblade buff?

Feanor

Turelus wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

I've been trying to figure it out as well, I just guessed it was our time to have people cry about everything until a token change is made.

Most of the time complaints from PvP comes down to the fact people refuse to change their "unstoppable build" to counter Nightblades or being mad they can't get a kill because the Nightblade got away.

You mustn't have tried that hard, it's all in the patch notes

Is that what the mystery 70mb was, a Nightblade buff?

Yeah I'm pretty sure they are to blame for the UI errors too.

Azurya

Feanor wrote: »

Worthy to note:

- Incap was the cheapest ultimate in the game at 50 ultimate and between Catalyst and Combat Frenzy almost a spammable ability.
- The passive that increases critical damage done by 10% is still there (Hemmorhage). The bonus damage from attacking from stealth was removed - for everyone though.
- Mass Hysteria only CCs 2 targets now instead of 3, but it is still the only non-ultimate AoE hard CC in the game (and very buggy to the benefit of the NB often). Besides, the new trap fear together with a working shade is arguably a buff if you believe NBs like @DDuke and others.
- Siphoning Strikes was nerfed, but regeneration related skills took a hit for every class (Repentance, Helping Hands, Battle Roar, Conversion) and according to Raid NBs the ability still allows them to sustain a light attack rotation in PvE and is solid in PvP. NB Tanks got shafted though.

-Incap is nice in PvP if solo, nothing else. It means nothing in PVE.
-Fear maybe something in PvP, in PVE it is nothing. In PvP-cyrodil it is due to lags mostly useless.
-while siphoning no longer works as once concepted, I now run WW-ulti backbar, and 1-2 jewelry enchants (situation dependend), so yeah you can work around it.
The point by OP is that the class didn´t get any love the last years, and it is about time we get something!

Feanor

Azurya wrote: »

-Incap is nice in PvP if solo, nothing else. It means nothing in PVE.

Erm...ever heard of Master Architect/War Machine and that faboulus Major Slayer buff?

-Fear maybe something in PvP, in PVE it is nothing. In PvP-cyrodil it is due to lags mostly useless.

In group setting you don't need CC because you have a tank. Solo PvE and PvP Fear is the only non-ultimate AoE hard CC in game. Lag makes Mass hysteria even better most times, not worse.

-while siphoning no longer works as once concepted, I now run WW-ulti backbar, and 1-2 jewelry enchants (situation dependend), so yeah you can work around it.

If you compare it with what happened to Repentance, Siphoning/Leeching is still an awesome skill.

The point by OP is that the class didn´t get any love the last years, and it is about time we get something!

The point is that it's misleading to state NBs didn't get buffs, and even if there weren't any, the nerfs have been comparatively small relative to other classes.

Azurya

to small to be honest,
but yeah I can live with it

ak_pvp

NB, at least stamNB has been top 3 for a VERY long time. Ever since the proc meta started. But due to their bugs they were never public enemy no.1. That was sorcs premorrow when 3x shield spam+pet, and great sustain. Then stamden, because birdspam (everything else you can deal with) now NB is in the limelight because:

Cloak is an overtuned ability. Don't get me wrong, it should stay similar and not be decimated to the level of wings. Cloak base is the best balanced defense, having decent counters,* and good scaling vs numbers and plays to skill well. It was checked by being broken where it shouldn't be. They fixed it, nerfed everyone elses defenses, and it became too strong. Compare to any other ability and it outdoes it. Scales better, mitigates better, escapes better.

Merciless got some buffs, having the channel removed, multiple uses per cast, ticks carrying over.

Counters got nerfed, dodge was overly weak, and got balanced, but now it is pretty strong, combined with cloak on a stamblade, their defense has far exceeded any other class.

*A while back, detect pots got nerfed, both range and duration too. So if you aren't an NB yourself, you are at a disadvantage.

Feanor

@ak_pvp

Just a quick note I loved that line in your signature:

Magplar/Healthplar/Craftplar - Crafting

Yes there are classes way worse off

akray21

Feanor wrote: »

Worthy to note:

- Mass Hysteria only CCs 2 targets now instead of 3, but it is still the only non-ultimate AoE hard CC in the game (and very buggy to the benefit of the NB often). Besides, the new trap fear together with a working shade is arguably a buff if you believe NBs like @DDuke and others

The best AoE hard CC in the game is streak, hands down.

Checkmath

Streak can be blocked and doesnt apply minor maim tough

Juhasow

Azurya wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Worthy to note:

- Incap was the cheapest ultimate in the game at 50 ultimate and between Catalyst and Combat Frenzy almost a spammable ability.
- The passive that increases critical damage done by 10% is still there (Hemmorhage). The bonus damage from attacking from stealth was removed - for everyone though.
- Mass Hysteria only CCs 2 targets now instead of 3, but it is still the only non-ultimate AoE hard CC in the game (and very buggy to the benefit of the NB often). Besides, the new trap fear together with a working shade is arguably a buff if you believe NBs like @DDuke and others.
- Siphoning Strikes was nerfed, but regeneration related skills took a hit for every class (Repentance, Helping Hands, Battle Roar, Conversion) and according to Raid NBs the ability still allows them to sustain a light attack rotation in PvE and is solid in PvP. NB Tanks got shafted though.

-Incap is nice in PvP if solo, nothing else. It means nothing in PVE.
-Fear maybe something in PvP, in PVE it is nothing. In PvP-cyrodil it is due to lags mostly useless.
-while siphoning no longer works as once concepted, I now run WW-ulti backbar, and 1-2 jewelry enchants (situation dependend), so yeah you can work around it.
The point by OP is that the class didn´t get any love the last years, and it is about time we get something!

LOL just LOL.

This is one of the good examples why forum discussions sucks. People who have no idea what they're talking about can come and share their "knowledge" thinking about themselves as equals to other players with much more understanding of the game. No offence @Azyurya but almost every point You mentioned was wrong or half-true. @Feanor maked good explanations to Your points You should really accept all of them.

ZOS_JesC

We removed a few comments that were directly baiting other members. Friendly reminder to stay on topic with your posts. We don’t expect everyone to always agree, however forum posts need to stay constructive towards the conversation and not derail into baiting or personal insults. If you have any questions about our forum rules, please read through them here.

Feanor

akray21 wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Worthy to note:

- Mass Hysteria only CCs 2 targets now instead of 3, but it is still the only non-ultimate AoE hard CC in the game (and very buggy to the benefit of the NB often). Besides, the new trap fear together with a working shade is arguably a buff if you believe NBs like @DDuke and others

The best AoE hard CC in the game is streak, hands down.

Not really. The stun is only 1.5 seconds (instead of Mass Hysteria's 4 seconds!) and takes just as long as the streak animation to finish.

Bam_Bam

Turelus wrote: »

I've been trying to figure it out as well, I just guessed it was our time to have people cry about everything until a token change is made.

Most of the time complaints from PvP comes down to the fact people refuse to change their "unstoppable build" to counter Nightblades or being mad they can't get a kill because the Nightblade got away.

This x100000. And don't forget that since Miats was changed, everyone is having to learn to defend properly agai - like you say: those unstoppable builds actually have to pay attention and be wary. Which EVERY class in Cyrodiil should have too.

Also, it funny that the only QQing seems to be here on the forums. In game, EVERYONE is a threat and so everyone just gets on with it.

rimmidimdim

A buff I would like to see to NB's is this. A heavy attack, especially duel wield heavy attacks, but I think all heavy attacks, should count as two "ticks" towards merciless resolve and relentless focus. Also siphoning strikes should get double resources from heavy attacks. That would give a nice specific class buff for the NB's. Be really nice buff for NB tanky builds in particular, buff all NB's would receive a nice class specific buff. Cheers.

Feanor

rimmidimdim wrote: »

A buff I would like to see to NB's is this. A heavy attack, especially duel wield heavy attacks, but I think all heavy attacks, should count as two "ticks" towards merciless resolve and relentless focus. Also siphoning strikes should get double resources from heavy attacks. That would give a nice specific class buff for the NB's. Be really nice buff for NB tanky builds in particular, buff all NB's would receive a nice class specific buff. Cheers.

That was the state when the ability was on the PTS, and what you propose as buff was identified as a bug by ZOS. Essentially you would increase Relentless/Merciless uptime quite drastically. That’s not going to happen unless you reduce the damage the skill does.

Also buffing NB sustain could only be done if the other classes get similar sustain relief. Not something I see happening either.

QuebraRegra

are the NB nerf posters the equivalent of Russian election trolls?

Maulkin

rimmidimdim wrote: »

A buff I would like to see to NB's is this. A heavy attack, especially duel wield heavy attacks, but I think all heavy attacks, should count as two "ticks" towards merciless resolve and relentless focus. Also siphoning strikes should get double resources from heavy attacks. That would give a nice specific class buff for the NB's. Be really nice buff for NB tanky builds in particular, buff all NB's would receive a nice class specific buff. Cheers.

Yeah, because obviously a Grim Focus proc on every 3rd rotation is exactly the kind of DPS buff the strongest DPS class needs right now...

rimmidimdim

Feanor wrote: »

rimmidimdim wrote: »

A buff I would like to see to NB's is this. A heavy attack, especially duel wield heavy attacks, but I think all heavy attacks, should count as two "ticks" towards merciless resolve and relentless focus. Also siphoning strikes should get double resources from heavy attacks. That would give a nice specific class buff for the NB's. Be really nice buff for NB tanky builds in particular, buff all NB's would receive a nice class specific buff. Cheers.

That was the state when the ability was on the PTS, and what you propose as buff was identified as a bug by ZOS. Essentially you would increase Relentless/Merciless uptime quite drastically. That’s not going to happen unless you reduce the damage the skill does.

Also buffing NB sustain could only be done if the other classes get similar sustain relief. Not something I see happening either.

Well, I would not use the term drastically, I mean heavy attacks are twice as long as light attacks, same goes for the sustain, twice as long, don't think it would be a huge advantage. Plus in PvP it's more likely to be interrupted during a heavy attack than light attacks. Making heavy attacks more risk. Would be good for NB tanks.

rimmidimdim

Maulkin wrote: »

rimmidimdim wrote: »

A buff I would like to see to NB's is this. A heavy attack, especially duel wield heavy attacks, but I think all heavy attacks, should count as two "ticks" towards merciless resolve and relentless focus. Also siphoning strikes should get double resources from heavy attacks. That would give a nice specific class buff for the NB's. Be really nice buff for NB tanky builds in particular, buff all NB's would receive a nice class specific buff. Cheers.

Yeah, because obviously a Grim Focus proc on every 3rd rotation is exactly the kind of DPS buff the strongest DPS class needs right now...

Again, yes you can argue third rotation but would still be very similar dps.

Dredlord

rimmidimdim wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

rimmidimdim wrote: »

A buff I would like to see to NB's is this. A heavy attack, especially duel wield heavy attacks, but I think all heavy attacks, should count as two "ticks" towards merciless resolve and relentless focus. Also siphoning strikes should get double resources from heavy attacks. That would give a nice specific class buff for the NB's. Be really nice buff for NB tanky builds in particular, buff all NB's would receive a nice class specific buff. Cheers.

Yeah, because obviously a Grim Focus proc on every 3rd rotation is exactly the kind of DPS buff the strongest DPS class needs right now...

Again, yes you can argue third rotation but would still be very similar dps.

Wow you just have no clue what so ever...

Subversus

Maulkin wrote: »

rimmidimdim wrote: »

A buff I would like to see to NB's is this. A heavy attack, especially duel wield heavy attacks, but I think all heavy attacks, should count as two "ticks" towards merciless resolve and relentless focus. Also siphoning strikes should get double resources from heavy attacks. That would give a nice specific class buff for the NB's. Be really nice buff for NB tanky builds in particular, buff all NB's would receive a nice class specific buff. Cheers.

Yeah, because obviously a Grim Focus proc on every 3rd rotation is exactly the kind of DPS buff the strongest DPS class needs right now...

Every third rotation of what? Assuming you’re talking about pvp here, since we’re in the pvp forums.

But yeah double merciless on heavy attacks would be stupid and would benefit stam tremendously, mag heavies are clunky af.

Vermintide

QuebraRegra wrote: »

are the NB nerf posters the equivalent of Russian election trolls?

Ex-Miats users.

Sharee

ErMurazor wrote: »

Nightblades havent gott a buff for ages. Nerfs last year as I recall:

Incap cost increase
10% critdamage passive removed
Fear nerf
Siph attacks nerf.

Suddenly ppl scream their lungs out that NBs are OP.

What changed the last months?

I'll tell ya. Cloak and Shadow Image actually got fixed after being broken and miats crutch addon got nerfed. Thats about it.

I cant even recall the last time stamblades got a buff. Its been nerf after nerf every dlc.

Before: Fossilize -> flame lash -> (stamblade CC breaks and dodge rolls) -> power lash (hit) -> dead stamblade.

Now: Fossilize -> flame lash -> (stamblade CC breaks and dodge rolls) -> power lash (dodged) -> (stamblade cloaks and emerges at full HP a couple seconds later).