Should there be CP requirements to queue for vet dungeons?

Anotherone773

Other

Menelaos wrote: »

This topic - along with some of the answers - seems to insinuate another question, one that appears to be more hidden between the lines:

"Should we have a convenient CP wall that takes the responsibilities from us and shields us from low-CP scrubs that ruin our pro experience?"

I mean if your going to be Pro at something, by god make it a video game!

Turelus

No

Menelaos wrote: »

This topic - along with some of the answers - seems to insinuate another question, one that appears to be more hidden between the lines:

"Should we have a convenient CP wall that takes the responsibilities from us and shields us from low-CP scrubs that ruin our pro experience?"

There is something already in place for that, it's called a guild. Just the people who are so awesome in group finder seemly also have trouble finding guilds to run with... I wonder if there is a connection.

jaschacasadiob16_ESO

CP alone doesnt tell you anything. Ive played with plenty of CP720 who HA the whole dungeons. It doesnt even guarantee you they have properly allocated their points.

On the other hand, if we were free to ignore fake tanks, heals and overall questionable people, that would be great. Even better if we could TTL black listing. But this requires ZOS to know what TTL is

profundidob16_ESO

Yes

this is already proposed within the existing thread inside this category:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/394288/suggestion-to-devs-split-off-vet-dlc-dungeons-in-random-group-finder#latest

ihazzit

Other

Other. Having high CP is only an indicator that the player is capable of running around in circles while pressing 3 buttons/keys over a long period of time. Even obtaining certain achievements/skins from trials or vMA doesn't necessarily indicate they are capable of completing vet dungeons, i.e. were they carried, did someone else complete it for them, etc. Plus, situational awareness and enemy mechanics learning and retention by a player trumps CP level and players that are grind heavy CPers who are incapable of being effective in a dungeon are not going to improve by further grinding if the dungeon CP level is raised. Also, knowing how a dungeon works, the way in which a player learns it, and the manner in which a player attempts to teach it all can vary widely and again, CP level is of no indication that the high CP player has any appreciable ability to do any of those.

Include the fact that vet dungeons are being completed with low CP players along with the possibility to form vet dungeon groups through guilds, zone chat, and friends, I am then of the opinion that CP has little to nothing to do with it and looking to raise the CP level requirement would mean little to no improvement in the quality of players and may even cause a regression in the quality of players.

Sky_WK

Yes

There's absolutely NO reason for someone under CP160 to be in vet dungeon.

Conduit0

Other

Menelaos wrote: »

This topic - along with some of the answers - seems to insinuate another question, one that appears to be more hidden between the lines:

"Should we have a convenient CP wall that takes the responsibilities from us and shields us from low-CP scrubs that ruin our pro experience?"

Because how dare they expect people who queue for vet content to actually be capable of clearing vet content. How very dare they indeed.

Merlin13KAGL

Yes

Menelaos wrote: »

This topic - along with some of the answers - seems to insinuate another question, one that appears to be more hidden between the lines:

"Should we have a convenient CP wall that takes the responsibilities from us and shields us from low-CP scrubs that ruin our pro experience?"

I have news for you, there are difficulty tiers in this game, whether you wish to believe they exist or not. The old zones handled this. Hell, leveling to 50 semi-handles this.

If you want a prime example, go run Vet Banished Cells. Then take a stroll through Vet ScaleCaller. You'll notice a spike, even though the group is exactly the same.


Here's the Catch 22:

• People get upset when they're told they can't enter certain content.
• People get upset when they do enter that content and have zero chance of clearing it.

This one's a no-win, either way. It's why I like the guantlet/certification/experience score, if you will, idea.

It will show capability of the player, much more than CP's can alone. It should be coupled with useful (not loading screen quality) suggestions on how to improve at a role. No more fake tanks/heals/dps. No more CP900's that don't have a clue. No more exclusion of that CP170 that is a mechanics-based badass.

Even then, there will be differences in player level/skill/ability. Nothing in game will ever change that, and for better or worse, it always becomes painfully evident in short order the moment your group faces a challenge.

Dapper Dinosaur

Yes

disintegr8 wrote: »

DLC vet dungeons already have a cp160 requirement and vet content is vet content, once you have reached level 50, go for it.

Anyone who doesn't want to see low CP players in their pug's should not be using dungeon finder: find some friends, join a guild.

As someone that actually PuGs dungeons (clearly you don't), "find some friends, join a guild" is not a viable solution for the harder dungeons. I have been trying for WEEKS to get some competent players added to a pool of candidates to attempt the Dragon Bones challenges, and post multiple messages throughout every single day in all of my guild chats and never get any interest at all. Anyone lower than champion 500 shouldn't even be allowed to queue for Dbones dungeons on vet, it's a total waste of time to try.

Fherrit

No

My 2 cents, which I won't assume is worth any more than that. This is coming from the perspective of someone who just recently hit 580 CP and still kinda/sorta sucks. I play several DPS and a budding tank, who's game play I actually enjoy even if I'm not part of the DK herd and am constantly being told that NB's should que as DPS or Heals, not tank.

So why do I sorta suck? I don't know all the mechanics like "everyone else" because while I was leveling up, I kept reading chatter of how if you're not at least CP 160 you're wasting someone's dungeon slot. But you know, I do my homework...for a frigging video game..to watch vids and learn what sadistic 1HK ZOS has for this dungeon, or what "fun" mechanics of dodge dancing they decided to make us all jump through.

I've had some really *** experiences group wise, and some really great ones, and the great ones had one (or sometimes both) of two things in common:

1) People weren't entitled about their game. They didn't assume I emerged from the womb as a ESO expert with top level gear and intimate knowledge of every class' challenges. They were instead patient, made a couple of suggestions, rezzed and tried again. No *** fest, no nerd raging trash talk, just things like "hey bud, when that cone comes out, you got to dodge out of it immediately as it's one of ZOS's *** 1hk "fun" things".

2) VOIP. I've had the privlidge of being invited to people's discord for some vet runs I've been in and omg what a difference that makes. The person who knows the mechanics intimately can call it out before it happens, like this amazing Sorc Tank I was in Mazzatun with who taught 2 of us that dungeon to where not only did our noob asses help clear it, we did it with no wipes (a few deaths with Chudan and his poison crap). I still remember his calm tone as he called out warnings, where to go, and what not.

So IMHO where ZOS is playing the cheap game is by not including a group chat channel for its customers to be automatically logged into when a group is formed. Yes..I know, that brings it's own hassles and people are *** when they have the annonymity of the monitor ...but if ZOS had a decent reporting system and handed out bans appropriately, over time people would become civil enough for a included voip to become an asset.

I have a love/hate relationship with the dungeons. I like that they're difficult, but the real problem is that you go from the baby pool (normal) being utterly trashed by high cp chars while you learn nothing, to suddenly being tossed into the raging Atlantic ocean as mechanics and 1HK's slap you silly. The DLC are designed to be hard for non-pug groups, and that's where having the dungeon finder having just Vet and Norm as choices is a weak/lazy design. The level of difficulty the DLC Vet dungeons represent warrant a 3rd tier for difficulty settings, it should be:

Normal/Adventurer/Veteran

The mechanics of the 2nd tier would be a middle ground between the two ends in difficulty. The monster masks start to drop, but in blue quality and the only 1HK would be the final boss and less of the mad dashing around multitasking. That would the people who are ESO lifers/day 1 jobbers a progression path in lieu of a VOIP client coming with the game. Sadly, I don't think any of the suggestions in this thread will be acted on, ZOS is too tight with the payroll and dumps the burden squarely onto the players. The irony is, if they did either they'd be more successful as a business.

Fherrit

No

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

disintegr8 wrote: »

DLC vet dungeons already have a cp160 requirement and vet content is vet content, once you have reached level 50, go for it.

Anyone who doesn't want to see low CP players in their pug's should not be using dungeon finder: find some friends, join a guild.

As someone that actually PuGs dungeons (clearly you don't), "find some friends, join a guild" is not a viable solution for the harder dungeons. I have been trying for WEEKS to get some competent players added to a pool of candidates to attempt the Dragon Bones challenges, and post multiple messages throughout every single day in all of my guild chats and never get any interest at all. Anyone lower than champion 500 shouldn't even be allowed to queue for Dbones dungeons on vet, it's a total waste of time to try.

From my personal experience one could say that of several dungeons, this post shows that there is a real issue with using a catch all "Veteran" category and honestly I don't think CP alone will relieve your frustration.

As I posted, I didn't even start till I was CP 300 because of the elitist chatter I got exposed to and I did plenty of research on the gearing and dungeon mechanics, but until I experienced those mechanics first hand a few times, its like someone telling you about a bad day vs experiencing one yourself.

That's not to dismiss the frustration you're feeling, I'm just not agreeing with CP as the gatekeeping device.

I've been wanting to learn how to tank a number of tough dungeons which I don't want to impose on pugs, I belong to 4 guilds and this entire week I've not had one person respond for vet pledges of those specific dungeons. The reason being because I'm upfront with wanting to learn how to tank them but no one wants to put in a session for those dungeons because of their native high difficulty.

As I said, i don't want them dumbed down, but I think the inherit flaw in the design is the Norm/Vet category, there really needs to be a middle ground that we can go through so that new players can actually develop skills and knowledge because running normals rarely teaches anything, stuff just gets burned down way too fast.

Llaren_Uvayn

Other

There should be a poll when you queue for a Vet Dungeon, saying:

"Red circles are great, I love standing in them all day long!"
Y / N

"A tank doesn't need a taunt skill and people shouldn't fuss about that sort of thing."
Y / N

Answering "Yes" to any of these would deny your queue request.

crobarXIII

I've seen 300cp healers & dps that are better then some capped cp players. CP isn't a good way of judging a players capabilities. I do get annoyed when players start talking about their tooltip value's but don't have a rotation & have never tested/practiced on target dummy. It's like people with dyno queens, yeah I could see you car has high hp but how well can you drive it on a course or in the canyons.

QuebraRegra

No

720 fools in dungeons LA,LA,LA, with sub 9k DPS, and have no idea of simple mechanics like red circles and bash.

CP should NOT be the metric.. there needs to be a qualifier for each role that must be completed BEFORE you can queue for that role. The qualifier should scale for normal versus VET.