Should there be CP requirements to queue for vet dungeons?

cmetzger93

Please elaborate on why you feel the way you do. Constructive only please

disintegr8

No

DLC vet dungeons already have a cp160 requirement and vet content is vet content, once you have reached level 50, go for it.

Anyone who doesn't want to see low CP players in their pug's should not be using dungeon finder: find some friends, join a guild.

VaranisArano

What you really mean is: should the CP requirements be raised?

I can see why ZOS settled on CP 160 as the moment they stop blocking content in the groupfinder. Its the gear cap, and at that point, you can't say the player can't obtain the gears and skills they need to complete vet content, even if the experience and CP aren't there yet.

FloppyTouch

Yes

Vet dlc cp300+
Vet base game 160cp+


It's so easy to get to cp300 does not take that long if ur lower cp then ur still very new to the game and should play the other ones that are not as hard to learn.

CheepsNSalsa

Yes

Yes, because maybe then groupfinder would work for dlc dungeons.

Bellamy

No

There's already a CP requirement and, honestly? I've done DLC normals with two dps, CP250 and CP350, that put out a cumulative 12k dps, so I'm not convinced that CP is all that related to someone's skill after you hit 160.

Or, rather: I'm sure there's a general trend of higher CP = higher skill, but I don't think upping CP requirements will actually help very much with the problem of people queueing into dungeons they can't do, especially given that most of the problem (in my experience, at least) tends to arise from people not knowing mechanics, not having a good build, or not knowing their rotation, all of which are not in the least restricted to low CP players.

disintegr8

No

While I agree that you need more experience to do some of the harder vet dungeons, stopping players from accessing it is just kicking sand in their faces.

ZOS have created a problem where it is so quick and easy to get to cp160, with enlightenment, XP pots, etc., that most people don't have the skills they need to complete some of this stuff. It is not their fault.

Anotherone773

Other

Im conflicted...

Yes, because i would like to see dungeons grouped better according to difficulty level. But i dont want that because i emorage if someone isnt pulling 2 mil dps or doesnt know the mechanics like most that have a problem with it. Rather, i want them grouped so i know when this character can do these dungeons fairly easily, its ready for slightly harder dungeons, so on and so forth. I like progression in dungeons, not " oh look i hit level 15, i can queue for all 439 dungeons in the game!"

No, because, honestly, if you have an issue with PUG groups and the people that join them, you are the problem not them. They have just as much right to be in that dungeon as you do. They paid for the game just like you did and just like with your account, it includes ALL the content, not just the content you deem them worthy of running. So, in that regard, i would tell a person that has an issue with PUGs because they only want to PUG with pros to either stop crying or make some friends and dont PUG.

LadyLethalla

Case in point to some of the above posts: Scalecaller Peak, when it was a pledge a few days ago.
Was running it on Normal in a PUG; I was DPS (currently 416CP), and the other DD was 300CP.
We wiped on the Gargoyle boss. Twice. The other DD left the dungeon and the Finder netted us a level 49. Who completed the remainder of the dungeon without a death, if I remember correctly. So CP is definitely no indication of skill.

GeorgeBlack

Yes

Yes.

-250CP from the cap should be a minimum requirement.

Grimm13

The group finder default changes to vet when it opens up. Easy to miss when you first get to that level, I know that I ended up in some vet runs when I did not want to. Knew I was still working on the gear.

The default should remain as normal and it take an extra action to queue for vet. Could reduce the issue.

Anotherone773

Other

Grimm13 wrote: »

The group finder default changes to vet when it opens up. Easy to miss when you first get to that level, I know that I ended up in some vet runs when I did not want to. Knew I was still working on the gear.

The default should remain as normal and it take an extra action to queue for vet. Could reduce the issue.

Yeah in a poll i did a month ago or so, most of the respondents said that they accidentally queued for vet when they meant to queue for normal. Its not a good design at all. I think it should remember your last setting on each character so its not a pain in the ass for people who run vet or who have a mix of characters running normal and vet.

Yamenstein

Other

They should make it a requirement to beat normal mode dungeons before trying the vet dungeons of the same dungeon. Also maybe some sort of unlocking system where if you beat certain dungeons then it unlocks other dungeons based on difficulty. Also they need to fix up the UI. Also improve the grouping system.

I've seen people with 500+CP do the lowest DPS. Even on easy dungeons like vet elden hollow. CP doesn't mean anything if the player doesn't know how to play.

At the end of the day though if you don't like that possibility of playing with someone who is going to be slower or not as knowledgeable when it comes to the game, you are better off playing with people who you can rely on.

Vanya

Nay and Too be Perfectly sincere there isn't a lot to elaborate only to whisper the following:

The level 50 Requirement in my eyes should more than enough for anyone to Queue an Experience Veteran Dungeons. If you are unsatisfied by the performance of certain player do not group. Very simple option or Play with the warriors with 200-300+ Champion Points.

Everyone has a right to try at least, they might be less skilled or less powerful then you are, but keep in mind everyone was in the same boots You were a novice as well.

No Champion Points Cap. If you truly wish to beat the hardest dungeons or challenges I suggest creating a special guild of very dedicated hardcore players with the same mindset, but yes indeed to sum it up, No.

It is not fair in the end of the balled, Nay. No Champion points Cap/Requirement.

VDoom1

Yes

I actually would not mind this. Several times I have witnessed or heard of someone being kicked because they were "to low" CP wise. To avoid this why not just implement so all the 700 CP and above get in one category. Then 500 - 700 CP get one category. Then 200-500CP and lastly 1-200CP. (Don't recall what you start on, if it's one CP or 10 or even 50.) And the categories work so that you only que with people in range of yourself.

It's vet dungeons, a bit harder than normal once. Seems like a bit more is at stake when it comes to getting a good group.

phermitgb

No

to the op

since you ask, and just for the record, you are BY FAR AND AWAY not the first person to bring up this point...

as so many have said so very many times before...
cp score ALONE is no certain indicator of skill, experience, or capability.

that's my only reason, and it's the only reason I need for not making a cp REQUIREMENT in the group finder.

Now, if you want some kind of selectable cp limiter on YOUR OWN SIDE of the ui, so that for example, you can request groups of only 200 cp or higher, and you're willing to wait in the extended que times WITHOUT COMPLAINING ON THE FORUMS that you had to wait a long time, then be my guest - that wouldn't bother me at all.

If YOU feel that you can only have fun or only expect decent performance out of people with 200+ cp (or whatever your personal limit is), and you're willing to wait quietly and patiently for the extra time it'll take the game to match you up with a more limited pool of potential groupies, then I'm totally fine with that.

If, however, you want to impose your personal perception of what makes a person qualified to run a dungeon ON THE WHOLE COMMUNITY...

f that s.

my personal opinion, of course - but you asked...

akl77

Yes

Yes at least cp160, cos under cp160 I always use training traits and random dropped gears with random skills for levelling the skill tree, so it should only play normal dungeons not vet. Vet should be played with proper gear otherwise you are wasting other people time or being a baggage not pulling your weight.

Juju_beans

disintegr8 wrote: »

While I agree that you need more experience to do some of the harder vet dungeons, stopping players from accessing it is just kicking sand in their faces.

ZOS have created a problem where it is so quick and easy to get to cp160, with enlightenment, XP pots, etc., that most people don't have the skills they need to complete some of this stuff. It is not their fault.

I think that is the real reason..zooming to 50 and then cp160 using 2-3 skills at dolmens and in skyreach.
Once they are out on their own they have no clue...probably don't even know what their dps.

Also saw this in wow once they started with boosted characters/heirlooms that boost xp, etc.

When you don't "play the game" you end up not knowing how to play the game.

frausty

No

I would much rather there was some clever maths and database queries going on that assessed people's suitability for Tank and Healer roles rather than limit people by CP. I had a similar experience to one of the other posts above where we kept wiping on Vet Fang Lair because the "Healer" didn't drop a single heal but rather kept dying all of the time. Once they were kicked we got a Level 47 player and he/she healed perfectly and didn't wipe again. That player witnessed and took part in the mechanics of the Vet dungeon and increased his/her knowledge for next time they run it. I've also experienced this with a level 40ish Tank who was an experienced player just playing on an alt

If you have a CP300 player does not mean they know how to run a dungeon. I didn't do my first PUG Vet Dungeon until CP250ish and I was useless, (DPS), but now I can hold my own fairly well because of the practice and understanding that if the Healer can't heal either kick them, muddle through if it's possible or walk and ask some guild members to schedule a run.

knaveofengland

Yes

non dlc cp 160 vet dlc 300 +

Asardes

Yes

CP160, but not more. I've seen players lower than that in dungeons and they are literally useless for several reasons:
- most of them are very inexperienced, you can literally hit CP in less than a week just playing the game, and considerably less if you grind; during double XP events it's less than a day.
- the "baby fat" that buffs your stats under level 50 has worn off, but the stat buffs from CP are still very low, so their stats will be at their lowest
- they most likely lack the skill points to spec passives so that drives their performance even lower since they haven't had time to gather sufficient shards and quests to get the bare minimum (100-120 skill points)
- most of them have bad gear since there's no reason to gear up properly before you hit the maximum gear tier and you are constantly outleveling your gear.
- additionally if they get a good drop, trait wise, it will be useless for the other group members; that's actually the main reason you never take under CP160 in nTrial or Dungeon farm runs.

So a CP160 minimum requirement for queuing solo in the tool is common sense IMO, especially for part 2 veteran dungeons. But if they queue as part of a full 4 man group created manually they should be able to use the tool.

Azurya

Other

imho, it would suit a system , where you get more dungeons as you do more dungeons in your eso-life!
5 base dungeons, after doing them, at least twice, you get another 3 added, aso.

Zeni0s

No

Just add a ? Near the 'veteran' and when you click on it it explain you how it is hard.

And after lv 50 the dg finder is by default on vet difficulty, you can change with normal if needed.

But after the skill adviser, we should have less hybrid NB heavy armor13k healer. In my opinion, a higher cp rank is not needed.

Asardes

Yes

Azurya wrote: »

imho, it would suit a system , where you get more dungeons as you do more dungeons in your eso-life!
5 base dungeons, after doing them, at least twice, you get another 3 added, aso.

That would be a bad idea if it were character based, since you can be a very experienced player, bring a new character in the pledge rotation and get a Part 2 Veteran and a harder DLC dungeon in that day you are nevertheless able to complete since you've done it many times on your older characters. I guess it wouldn't be entirely bad if it were account based, but even that would make things difficult for players who have opened a 2nd account or played on other servers & platforms. Also it wouldn't really fit with the general idea of One Tamriel, that is experiencing content what order you please.

LordGavus

No

Not needed. There is already a restriction on the DLC dungeons and thats fine.

If you want a minimum level group then form a group from guildies, friends or zone.

I've been put in random groups that failed hard due to low cp inexperienced players. It sucks but that's the risk of random queue.

Anecdote time. My wife recently started playing and got to cp levels on the weekend. She wanted to try a veteran dungeon. So I grabbed a friend who recently returned (after a year) to the game, jumped onto my healer and proceeded into a vet dungeon.

A cp20 and cp200 dps and me on my max healer 3 manned the dungeon with only 2 wipes.
Group dps was a massive 20k.
There was no difference between the cp20 and cp200 performance.

Now sure, it was vet coa1 and I carried them through, but the point is:
If you want a minimum level group, use guildies, friends or zone.

Turelus

No

We already have level requirements.

CP =/= skill or big numbers.

Let me get a new player in Skyreach for a week then give them to you for your Vet DLC dungeon. I mean they'll do everything you desire because they C720.

greylox

No

CP has very little, if nothing to do with skill.

Conduit0

Other

I voted other because it simply makes no difference. Like many others have said CP is not an indicator of skill or ability. I have seen far too many 300, 400, 500, 600+ CP players that couldn't tank/heal/dps their way through vet Fungal Grotto I, let alone a DLC dungeon.

Schemering

Other

There should not be but it would be better that there is some system that prevents unprepared and unskilled people from entering especially the DLC dungeons. I dont like my own position on this as i generally believe the openness is one of ESOs strengths but it happens too often someone needs to be kicked from (DLC) vet dungeons.

I dont like kicking and luckily some people can see for themselves that they dont have the knowledge / skills to continue the dungeon that day but the huge difference in dungeon difficulty between some easy vet dungeons and some DLC dungeons sometimes makes kicking the only option left.

Some sort of char/player progression tracking system would help but its not the CP that is the only factor; there are cp720 people that perform much worse than cp160 or even lower people that can stay alive and give reasonable damage output or good heals/tanking

srfrogg23

Other

My answer used to be “yes”, but I changed my mind last night. Now, I just think the Vet DLC dungeons should be disconnected from the Groupfinder entirely.

I only had about an hour to play last night and ended up in Vet Fang Lair (I think that’s what it was) with 3 CP 720 characters last night. I am CP 630 and I was the healer.

We could not make it passed the Menagerie bosses. Just wipe after wipe after wipe trying a different strategy each time. Which resulted in a complete waste of over half of my play time last night.

I’ve come to to the conclusion that CP or not, the Vet DLC dungeons just aren’t meant to be PUG’d, and probably shouldn’t be in the Groupfinder.

Heka Cain

No

It is jolly good fun reading the text of the highfalutin, so called elite players prolapsing from their faces (or faeces) when a so called less worthy team mate makes a boo-boo! God dammit man don't you ever take that kind of fun away from me!!!