Should there be CP requirements to queue for vet dungeons?

Rianai

No

Knowledge and practise are way more important than CP levels and players don't gain knowledge and practise if you lock them out of vet dungeons, because normal dungeons and open world content aren't very good training grounds.

vestahls

No

Just because someone spent a certain number of CP does not mean that they spent them well.

Turelus

No

Rianai wrote: »

Knowledge and practise are way more important than CP levels and players don't gain knowledge and practise if you lock them out of vet dungeons, because normal dungeons and open world content aren't very good training grounds.

The best way for them to learn is if people take the time to explain things and teach them.

Easier to just go to the forums and complain though.

Silver_Strider

No

CP is just a number. It does not indicate any level of skill other than the patience to grind.
I've been in groups with max CP players that couldn't clear something like vCoS yet just the other day, I cleared it with a group of people who's highest CP was 320 and lowest was 203. It was sloppy, sure but they cleared it which is more than I can say for more than half the pugs I've been in.

No, there shouldn't be a CP restriction outside of the one currently in place as it would be meaningless to do so. You don't instantly become a master DPS/Tank/Healer with more CP, you can just perform the job slightly better but if you suck at your job, no amount of CP is going to change that.

Gythral

There already is 1 fro base game
160 for DLC

if you want X, form your own group

ayu_fever

CP is hardly the measuring stick for player skill, BUT it is likely a gauge to player experience.
i would rather be in a vet white gold tower with a healer and 2 dps that were CP400 and up rather than a fresh CP10.
a lower level and lower dps group could slog through some vet dungeons but the dlc dungeons would be near impossible.

as someone who is a solo player and doesnt do guilds, i am at the mercy of PUGs and we all know how that is

Tasear

Other

For most part current system is fine. 160 hardest dungeons are open, 300 vet trials won't be as hard. It's 100% possible to do them.

The issue is raising general skill level of players. Maybe it could be with quests or maybe more with skill adviser.Then again maybe a battle corner in game would work?

Sparr0w

No

No, should be a skill requirement - e.g. have done the normal version of the dungeon first, or at least done a couple normal dungeons before a vet one (account wide obviously).

Should also require them completing in stages, e.g.

• Normal Fungal I -> Normal Selenes & Vet Fungal I
• Normal Selenes/Vet Fungal I -> Normal Fungal II & Vet Selenes
• Normal Fungal II/Vet Selenes -> Normal DLC & Vet Fungal II
• Normal DLC/Vet Fungal II -> Vet DLC

cmetzger93

Yes

Turelus wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

Knowledge and practise are way more important than CP levels and players don't gain knowledge and practise if you lock them out of vet dungeons, because normal dungeons and open world content aren't very good training grounds.

The best way for them to learn is if people take the time to explain things and teach them.

Easier to just go to the forums and complain though.

Who is complaining? Just asking a question and curious about people’s opinions...

Aisle9

Other

There already are, CP160, which is the equipment cap.

Past that, it doesn't matter.

Even at CP160, 20k dps is accessible, and that's plenty for most dps races. If it's not, it means it's not a dps race, therefore mechanics are what's missing.

Simply put, by implementing CP caps > than 160 you make sure you won't be getting exceptional players that are leveling up an alt, changed server, or are just good, but you're allowing people struggling to get past 25k dps with a CP700.

Ofc there are grey areas, ad a wide variety of players in between these two case limit, but that doesn't change the fact that the amount of CP you have is not a good indicator of your chances of completing the content.

Also it doesn't take into account people that paid to have other players grind for them, while they were sitting in hiding or just following while watching movies, which not only won't be able to pull 25k, they will probably struggle to get to 10k (achievable by simply light attacking once a second with the correct CP allocation).

A more accurate filter would be an achievement for previous completion, like the conqueror or vanquisher achievements, which would require them to get a premade group and go through the content outside of the group finder first, but I would consider that acceptable only for DLC dungeons.

Naturally, you can make the argument of a /carry, but that's true for high CP as well, as stated above, on top of the other issues related to CP caps.

cmetzger93

Yes

Vanya wrote: »

Nay and Too be Perfectly sincere there isn't a lot to elaborate only to whisper the following:

The level 50 Requirement in my eyes should more than enough for anyone to Queue an Experience Veteran Dungeons. If you are unsatisfied by the performance of certain player do not group. Very simple option or Play with the warriors with 200-300+ Champion Points.

Everyone has a right to try at least, they might be less skilled or less powerful then you are, but keep in mind everyone was in the same boots You were a novice as well.

No Champion Points Cap. If you truly wish to beat the hardest dungeons or challenges I suggest creating a special guild of very dedicated hardcore players with the same mindset, but yes indeed to sum it up, No.

It is not fair in the end of the balled, Nay. No Champion points Cap/Requirement.

Good point. Love the name BTW, I’m a big LOTR fan!

jssriot

Other

Honestly, I've done vet pugs with under cp160 players that went absolutely fine. People can grind CP--or buy accounts. Doesn't mean they know how to play their toon or their role.

The problem i.m.e. isn't cp, but people queuing not appropriately for their roles and not knowing the dungeon mechanics. And I have no solution for that without redesigning the whole dungeon system in some byzantine fashion that no one wants.

Merlin13KAGL

Yes

There already are.

What there needs to be is a certification / gauntlet to show role competency after so many dungeons and to prevent people from trying to BS the queue when they can't do the job.

EDIT: Give me an Undaunted score, not just an Undaunted rank.

TelvanniWizard

Yes

FloppyTouch wrote: »

Vet dlc cp300+
Vet base game 160cp+


It's so easy to get to cp300 does not take that long if ur lower cp then ur still very new to the game and should play the other ones that are not as hard to learn.

This

aetherial_heavenn

Other: Having a 'no dlc' toggle for random vet would be good. I dont wanna pug vet WGT for example but happy to pug the other stuff on my healer (except maybe vet CoA2) if pushed for time.

Having 3 tiers of difficulty clearly labelled and requiring completion of easier content on vet before doing harder content on vet would be better in my opinion.

CP is no guarantee of ability or familiarity with mechanics.

For example, My dps on my 630 sorc is terrible because i am bad on her. I couldn't meet the dps checks on CoA 2. But my healer could heal vet dlc at 160.

Edited because something weird happened to half my post.

Ravereth

Yes

Vet dlc: CP 690+
Vet base game: CP 630+

Lifemocker

No

Many max cp players are just as lost in vet dungeons as low cp players are. If you don't want bad players in your group then make the group yourself.

ZiRM

No

Let's ostracize more players so the game dies even more. Why don't you give the elitists gold codpieces so they can strut around like mick jagger and announce to the world that they are digitally LARGER than you. Just make a seperate game just for the people that feel others are unworthy of playing with them. It would have to be unlocked only when you reach CP1000 and announce to the whole ESO community that you have no life and live online... or you cheat etc. etc..

nickl413

Yes, cp 1.

SolidusPrime

No

No, but I think the game should more clearly lay out how easy/hard a particular dungeon may be. I'm all for partying with lower level people. But some people get really offended when you tell them their damage is really, really low, or when the tank's gear is so bad you spend most of your time struggling to keep him up.

Again, I don't mind these people being with me, I just wish the GAME would tell them to step it up a little, or lay out a goal for them to shoot for in regards to the minimum needed to clear a place out efficiently. I don't mind helping and giving advice, some people just don't want it.

Anotherone773

Other

Turelus wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

Knowledge and practise are way more important than CP levels and players don't gain knowledge and practise if you lock them out of vet dungeons, because normal dungeons and open world content aren't very good training grounds.

The best way for them to learn is if people take the time to explain things and teach them.

Easier to just go to the forums and complain though.

I see a lot of complaining on the forums about people not knowing mechanics or not doing enough dps, and very little help or patience in game. This community is terribly self-centered and has a horrible case of the "MEs". In that regard, its one of the worse communities i haven encountered in a video game. Its like playing with a bunch of spoiled 6 year olds.

I dont want to research how to run a dungeon or raid. It takes the enjoyment out of it if someone gives me the solution in a video/website. I have been in very few dungeons where the mechanics werent known and someone that knew them took 30-60 seconds to explain them, but they will take 3 minutes to come to the forum to complain about it.

They complain about everything here. DPS, lack of knowledge, not having the right or enough skills, etc. Its like daycare. Dungeons and raids are some of my favorite things to do in this type of MMO, but the community is so toxic here, i dont want any part of it really. Which is going to greatly shorten the life of this game for me.

Normally i would create a guild that is actually friendly towards the general population and runs dungeons and raids together with no whining about other peoples skills and performance and no self entitlement. But i dont have the time to run a guild anymore, so...

I just hope the community grows up and learns that everything in life is not about them and the world doesnt revolve around them and their wants.But.... probably not going to happen.

cmetzger93

Yes

ZiRM wrote: »

Let's ostracize more players so the game dies even more. Why don't you give the elitists gold codpieces so they can strut around like mick jagger and announce to the world that they are digitally LARGER than you. Just make a seperate game just for the people that feel others are unworthy of playing with them. It would have to be unlocked only when you reach CP1000 and announce to the whole ESO community that you have no life and live online... or you cheat etc. etc..

Not sure where ‘game is dying’ came from. Let’s not turn this into one of those threads but this is about constructive discussion I’m not advocating for either side FYI

Turelus

No

cmetzger93 wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

Knowledge and practise are way more important than CP levels and players don't gain knowledge and practise if you lock them out of vet dungeons, because normal dungeons and open world content aren't very good training grounds.

The best way for them to learn is if people take the time to explain things and teach them.

Easier to just go to the forums and complain though.

Who is complaining? Just asking a question and curious about people’s opinions...

Most of the people making threads about group finder needing CP requirements.

Not singling you out specifically as one.

gwilcken

No

No, I don't think that there should be a CP cap. That being said, I do think the group finder needs serious work:

I would recommend that the group finder only group players within 50CP of each other. That way, like level players are grouped, and the content scales on their level.

I would also recommend an option to include or exclude DLC content from the group finder.

And finally, an option to eliminate being placed in an "in progress" event for those of us doing the undaunted dailies and winding up at the last boss and having to do the content again to get the achievement.

Stewart1874

Yes

Yes.

On top of fraudulent tanks we also have to put up with CP 174 (for example) who can't do effective enough damage (most of the time).

Was put through this yesterday on WGT.

Make it a passive sort of thing though, i.e if you don't meet the recommended rank you're simply filtered out of the dungeon finder rather than flat out not being able to access it - If you can make up a private group to do it with then fair enough.

I know PC has a dps calculator, I also know the recommended way of doing this on console is via skeleton but can we maybe look at implementing that so players can actually test themselves before they go into these dungeons/trials?

Be a good benefit for ESO+

ZiRM

No

cmetzger93 wrote: »

ZiRM wrote: »

Let's ostracize more players so the game dies even more. Why don't you give the elitists gold codpieces so they can strut around like mick jagger and announce to the world that they are digitally LARGER than you. Just make a seperate game just for the people that feel others are unworthy of playing with them. It would have to be unlocked only when you reach CP1000 and announce to the whole ESO community that you have no life and live online... or you cheat etc. etc..

Not sure where ‘game is dying’ came from. Let’s not turn this into one of those threads but this is about constructive discussion I’m not advocating for either side FYI

Your post is so constructive. Choose a side!

Violynne

disintegr8 wrote: »

ZOS have created a problem where it is so quick and easy to get to cp160, with enlightenment, XP pots, etc., that most people don't have the skills they need to complete some of this stuff. It is not their fault.

This is where I am. I have the level, just not the skills.

Though, I wouldn't dare pug a vet dungeon and drag my team down.

The responsibility is on me to get better and ZoS offers multiple ways to do this to those, like me, who don't feel any rush to get CP720 in 4 hours.

kylewwefan

Yes

Vet should be cp 160. In fact I think you should go straight from level 49 to 160. All the other stuff in between is nonsense at this point in the game. Actually I don’t really get 160 either. Kind of weird and archaic. Maybe step it up to CP 200. And all gear should magically change from 160 to 200. You know, maybe the gear should be separated from the CP all together. Cause having 720CP while rocking CP 160 gear is definitely strange. This whole CP thing really should have been thaught out better.

Asardes

Yes

Well if people refuse to follow instructions for more experienced ones, and some even throw a fit and curse them, and at best don't even bother replying on the group chat, that doesn't make the person not willing to do the explaining for the 7th time after wipe "toxic" in any way. I have a very relaxed attitude when PuG-ing dungeons - I only PuG normals, sometimes part 1 veterans for gear and generally carry the group by a large margin: If there's a mechanically difficult boss I only explain once, ask if people understood, wait a bit for any questions, then start the fight. If they die because they stay in red, and generally ignore what I told them, I don't even bother resurrecting them; sometimes it shortens the fight because while dead they at least stop kiting the boss from my DoTs. And I stand by my opinion, for the reasons stated above: the vast majority of < 160 CP people are really bad. That doesn't mean that there aren't even people at the CP cap being totally unskilled, and even more full of themselves. For low levels & <160 CP there are always normal dungeons which have the same story, skill point, same gear at slightly lower quality - irrelevant since you'll throw it away in a couple of days - so they should stick to those. There's basically 0 reason to queue for vet Tempest Island at CP80, die at every boss and pull less than 5K when you can just tick the normal and have a much easier time, learn the mechanics etc.

Menelaos

No

This topic - along with some of the answers - seems to insinuate another question, one that appears to be more hidden between the lines:

"Should we have a convenient CP wall that takes the responsibilities from us and shields us from low-CP scrubs that ruin our pro experience?"