Lore Friendly Glass/Malachite Roofs Retexture for Summerset Architecture

Darkstorne

red_emu wrote: »

And despite 3 threads now, no response from ZOS if this feedback has been passed on to anyone in art department?

They read the lore, they knew it should be glass/crystal themed architecture, and their artists are so damn talented that they definitely would have discussed this and made it happen if they could. It's a shame they won't talk about why it didn't happen, because I bet it would be a fascinating insight into how they work, but they seem stuck in AAA "we are awesome and everything always goes as planned" mode, and will ignore anyone who suggests otherwise.

Given this engine struggles to do transparency properly on even normal windows, it seems highly likely this is an engine limitation. It's just a shame they won't be open about it because I'd love to know what sort of discussions they had and how they problem-solved this one.

red_emu

Darkstorne wrote: »

red_emu wrote: »

And despite 3 threads now, no response from ZOS if this feedback has been passed on to anyone in art department?

They read the lore, they knew it should be glass/crystal themed architecture, and their artists are so damn talented that they definitely would have discussed this and made it happen if they could. It's a shame they won't talk about why it didn't happen, because I bet it would be a fascinating insight into how they work, but they seem stuck in AAA "we are awesome and everything always goes as planned" mode, and will ignore anyone who suggests otherwise.

Given this engine struggles to do transparency properly on even normal windows, it seems highly likely this is an engine limitation. It's just a shame they won't be open about it because I'd love to know what sort of discussions they had and how they problem-solved this one.

And many people have already said, not a single person is expecting transparent buildings. Seriously. We know the engine limitations. We want colour, we want shimmer, we want shine. What we got is dull concrete sprinkled with some cement.

Darkstorne

red_emu wrote: »

Darkstorne wrote: »

red_emu wrote: »

And despite 3 threads now, no response from ZOS if this feedback has been passed on to anyone in art department?

They read the lore, they knew it should be glass/crystal themed architecture, and their artists are so damn talented that they definitely would have discussed this and made it happen if they could. It's a shame they won't talk about why it didn't happen, because I bet it would be a fascinating insight into how they work, but they seem stuck in AAA "we are awesome and everything always goes as planned" mode, and will ignore anyone who suggests otherwise.

Given this engine struggles to do transparency properly on even normal windows, it seems highly likely this is an engine limitation. It's just a shame they won't be open about it because I'd love to know what sort of discussions they had and how they problem-solved this one.

And many people have already said, not a single person is expecting transparent buildings. Seriously. We know the engine limitations. We want colour, we want shimmer, we want shine. What we got is dull concrete sprinkled with some cement.

Yeah, I agree with you =D I'm just saying don't expect a response. It's not their style. Probably a Zenimax requirement (parent company, not ZOS) but they've never been open about why they break lore in their visual design, even when it's literally an entire province that is 100% wrong (Valenwood) rather than a single city.

swippy

remember the sword called Chillrend? that was glass, but blue, and i think that color blue would look even better as roofing than that green. but i don't have GIMP on my tablet

crjs1

Pretty please ZOS pretty please!

Adernath

Yes please!

Also, some grey stones perhaps brighter towards white. That would be a small fix for a great gain

Faulgor

Adernath wrote: »

Yes please!

Also, some grey stones perhaps brighter towards white. That would be a small fix for a great gain

Right? Just look at this house in Rellenthil, and tell me that doesn't look like a depressing concrete building - it's even falling apart!

Okiir

Faulgor wrote: »

Right? Just look at this house in Rellenthil, and tell me that doesn't look like a depressing concrete building - it's even falling apart!

I mean, It looks great, but it's not Summerset or Altmeri.

This amphitheatre would be so perfect in Cyrodiil, as an ancient ruin from the Reman Dynasty.

psychotrip

grizzledcroc wrote: »

Bumparoni , Its a simple change to add some color to it.

Exactly. But it would require them to admit that they made a mistake with their art design.

This is never getting changed.

From now on, Summerset is yet another medieval european kingdom, because Tamriel doesn’t have enough of those already. This is supposedly the super-advanced nation that Septim couldn’t conquer without a giant robot god.

Honestly, it doesn’t even make sense for altmer to have all this malachite anymore. Where are they getting it from? Zenimax clearly didnt take the time to consider why a nation with no volcanoes uses so much volcanic glass. It’s amateur world-building.

red_emu

I found an exclusive screenshot of the glorious capital of the Summerset Isles. Such beauty!

WhiteCoatSyndrome

Okiir wrote: »

I mean, It looks great, but it's not Summerset or Altmeri.

This amphitheatre would be so perfect in Cyrodiil, as an ancient ruin from the Reman Dynasty.

This very much. The problem isn't that the buildings are ugly, because they aren't - it's that they're unsuitable. Like driving a pickup truck to a super-glamorous dinner instead of a limousine. Sure, it has four wheels and it'll get you there, but when you had months in advance to plan your ride and an entire garage to pick from, why did you choose the pickup truck?!

Highlor3

Darkstorne wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

raj72616a wrote: »

they didnt fix the telvanni tower texture in morrowind despite the complaints

Fleshy shroom towers still be fleshy.

That disappointed me a lot especially after all the backlash in the beta forums

it was fan art, with all the canonical relevance of C0DA

I agree with your point, but I would also like to point out that C0DA is now canon courtesy of ESO

And on topic, hell yes to glass roofs. It doesn't solve the issue completely, but it's a fantastic compromise of lore and engine restrictions.

Enlight us on how C0DA was made canon by ESO?

psychotrip

Darkstorne wrote: »

red_emu wrote: »

Darkstorne wrote: »

red_emu wrote: »

And despite 3 threads now, no response from ZOS if this feedback has been passed on to anyone in art department?

They read the lore, they knew it should be glass/crystal themed architecture, and their artists are so damn talented that they definitely would have discussed this and made it happen if they could. It's a shame they won't talk about why it didn't happen, because I bet it would be a fascinating insight into how they work, but they seem stuck in AAA "we are awesome and everything always goes as planned" mode, and will ignore anyone who suggests otherwise.

Given this engine struggles to do transparency properly on even normal windows, it seems highly likely this is an engine limitation. It's just a shame they won't be open about it because I'd love to know what sort of discussions they had and how they problem-solved this one.

And many people have already said, not a single person is expecting transparent buildings. Seriously. We know the engine limitations. We want colour, we want shimmer, we want shine. What we got is dull concrete sprinkled with some cement.

Yeah, I agree with you =D I'm just saying don't expect a response. It's not their style. Probably a Zenimax requirement (parent company, not ZOS) but they've never been open about why they break lore in their visual design, even when it's literally an entire province that is 100% wrong (Valenwood) rather than a single city.

It’s not even a matter of breaking lore. We all know there’s multiple interpretations of the lore, and I’m not arguing that ESO did it "wrong".

The problem is they decided to go for the most boring, mundane, seen-before interpretation possible.

XomRhoK

Darker glass option
Original

Lighter

Darker


Besides color they need to change properties of material to get more depths and light reflection.

psychotrip wrote: »

Honestly, it doesn’t even make sense for altmer to have all this malachite anymore. Where are they getting it from? Zenimax clearly didnt take the time to consider why a nation with no volcanoes uses so much volcanic glass. It’s amateur world-building.

Mountain on Summerset don't look volcanic according to screenshots, but they may have volcanic-island-mine near archipelago.

psychotrip

XomRhoK wrote: »

Darker glass option
Original

Lighter

Darker


Besides color they need to change properties of material to get more depths and light reflection.

psychotrip wrote: »

Honestly, it doesn’t even make sense for altmer to have all this malachite anymore. Where are they getting it from? Zenimax clearly didnt take the time to consider why a nation with no volcanoes uses so much volcanic glass. It’s amateur world-building.

Mountain on Summerset don't look volcanic according to screenshots, but they may have volcanic-island-mine near archipelago.

I'll bet 10,000 drakes this won't be addressed at all. Summerset is Europe now, with no regard to how that effects their style or resources. How they get their malachite will be regarded as a "mysterious secret" that they'll ruin in a few years by saying they just trade with the dunmer.

Rosveen

red_emu wrote: »

Darkstorne wrote: »

red_emu wrote: »

And despite 3 threads now, no response from ZOS if this feedback has been passed on to anyone in art department?

They read the lore, they knew it should be glass/crystal themed architecture, and their artists are so damn talented that they definitely would have discussed this and made it happen if they could. It's a shame they won't talk about why it didn't happen, because I bet it would be a fascinating insight into how they work, but they seem stuck in AAA "we are awesome and everything always goes as planned" mode, and will ignore anyone who suggests otherwise.

Given this engine struggles to do transparency properly on even normal windows, it seems highly likely this is an engine limitation. It's just a shame they won't be open about it because I'd love to know what sort of discussions they had and how they problem-solved this one.

And many people have already said, not a single person is expecting transparent buildings. Seriously. We know the engine limitations. We want colour, we want shimmer, we want shine. What we got is dull concrete sprinkled with some cement.

Yeah, I don't understand where this transparency argument even comes from. We talked about glass, yes, but in the context of shimmering, colorful streets. We don't even know if the buildings were actually made of glass - we only know what they looked like to awed visitors, but not how the effect was achieved.

Aliyavana

psychotrip wrote: »

grizzledcroc wrote: »

Bumparoni , Its a simple change to add some color to it.

Exactly. But it would require them to admit that they made a mistake with their art design.

This is never getting changed.

From now on, Summerset is yet another medieval european kingdom, because Tamriel doesn’t have enough of those already. This is supposedly the super-advanced nation that Septim couldn’t conquer without a giant robot god.

Honestly, it doesn’t even make sense for altmer to have all this malachite anymore. Where are they getting it from? Zenimax clearly didnt take the time to consider why a nation with no volcanoes uses so much volcanic glass. It’s amateur world-building.

Can't say where altmer get the malachite from, but altmer are known for their glass armor so they might be malachite reserves somewhere

Rosveen

aliyavana wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

grizzledcroc wrote: »

Bumparoni , Its a simple change to add some color to it.

Exactly. But it would require them to admit that they made a mistake with their art design.

This is never getting changed.

From now on, Summerset is yet another medieval european kingdom, because Tamriel doesn’t have enough of those already. This is supposedly the super-advanced nation that Septim couldn’t conquer without a giant robot god.

Honestly, it doesn’t even make sense for altmer to have all this malachite anymore. Where are they getting it from? Zenimax clearly didnt take the time to consider why a nation with no volcanoes uses so much volcanic glass. It’s amateur world-building.

Can't say where altmer get the malachite from, but altmer are known for their glass armor so they might be malachite reserves somewhere

That's exactly the question: they're known to widely use malachite, so where do they get it from? Do they mine it? Import it? Mountains of malachite didn't just magically appear one day in their warehouses.

Aliyavana

Rosveen wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

grizzledcroc wrote: »

Bumparoni , Its a simple change to add some color to it.

Exactly. But it would require them to admit that they made a mistake with their art design.

This is never getting changed.

From now on, Summerset is yet another medieval european kingdom, because Tamriel doesn’t have enough of those already. This is supposedly the super-advanced nation that Septim couldn’t conquer without a giant robot god.

Honestly, it doesn’t even make sense for altmer to have all this malachite anymore. Where are they getting it from? Zenimax clearly didnt take the time to consider why a nation with no volcanoes uses so much volcanic glass. It’s amateur world-building.

Can't say where altmer get the malachite from, but altmer are known for their glass armor so they might be malachite reserves somewhere

That's exactly the question: they're known to widely use malachite, so where do they get it from? Do they mine it? Import it? Mountains of malachite didn't just magically appear one day in their warehouses.

Theoretically if they trade with dunmer house hlaalu wouldn't put trading with altmer beneath them

WhiteCoatSyndrome

Rosveen wrote: »

That's exactly the question: they're known to widely use malachite, so where do they get it from? Do they mine it? Import it? Mountains of malachite didn't just magically appear one day in their warehouses.

Do we know what kind of mountain Eton Nir is? Maybe it's an ex-volcano? Or maybe there are volcanic islands in the vicinity?

psychotrip

aliyavana wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

grizzledcroc wrote: »

Bumparoni , Its a simple change to add some color to it.

Exactly. But it would require them to admit that they made a mistake with their art design.

This is never getting changed.

From now on, Summerset is yet another medieval european kingdom, because Tamriel doesn’t have enough of those already. This is supposedly the super-advanced nation that Septim couldn’t conquer without a giant robot god.

Honestly, it doesn’t even make sense for altmer to have all this malachite anymore. Where are they getting it from? Zenimax clearly didnt take the time to consider why a nation with no volcanoes uses so much volcanic glass. It’s amateur world-building.

Can't say where altmer get the malachite from, but altmer are known for their glass armor so they might be malachite reserves somewhere

Rosveen wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

grizzledcroc wrote: »

Bumparoni , Its a simple change to add some color to it.

Exactly. But it would require them to admit that they made a mistake with their art design.

This is never getting changed.

From now on, Summerset is yet another medieval european kingdom, because Tamriel doesn’t have enough of those already. This is supposedly the super-advanced nation that Septim couldn’t conquer without a giant robot god.

Honestly, it doesn’t even make sense for altmer to have all this malachite anymore. Where are they getting it from? Zenimax clearly didnt take the time to consider why a nation with no volcanoes uses so much volcanic glass. It’s amateur world-building.

Can't say where altmer get the malachite from, but altmer are known for their glass armor so they might be malachite reserves somewhere

That's exactly the question: they're known to widely use malachite, so where do they get it from? Do they mine it? Import it? Mountains of malachite didn't just magically appear one day in their warehouses.

This is exactly the issue that ZOS has created by not thinking this through.

Sure, they can retro-actively justify it with some mundane, boring excuse, but wouldn't it have been much cooler if Summerset was a warm, sub-tropical place with a few volcanoes?





Imagine the frozen peaks of Cloudrest powered by geothermal activity, creating an advanced, natural heating system that was distributed throughout the city. Imagine if Eton Nir was an active volcano kept dormant only by high magic. It could be the center of the malachite trade and the lifeblood of Summerset's economy. This would give us a chance to see altmer magical technology firsthand, to witness how advanced they truly are, while providing ample opportunities for quests and conflict (mysterious deaths in the mines, someone "digging to deep" and unleashing something evil etc).

What do we get instead? Welcome to "Cloudrest"



So much wasted opportunity.

OtarTheMad

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Honestly the roofs of the buildings already look dark green to me in the videos and Glass can be that shade of green so to me they are already made of glass.

They are black

Well that's fine that you see black, with my PC I see Dark Green. The pictures are less clear than the Gameplay Trailer, easier to see the colors of the roofs on that. Probably depends on how the light hits it, like most colors. Plus with the Dye system you could easily claim that the designers/elves decided to color the roofs Black but are still made of glass (aka Malachite)

They are obviously not glass.

Agree to disagree then I guess, it's fine. I am not here to argue anything. I was just stating an opinion. I haven't been to Summerset yet so I am holding my opinion on it until I do, a 1:40 second gameplay trailer and 5 pictures aren't enough to paint a picture for me.

dodgehopper_ESO

Actually this would be good. I must say though I like the Italian Renaissance / Baroque architecture theme makes a lot of sense. Most of the old elf stuff had an Italian-y look in the series.

ak_pvp

Make the windows green/yellow tinted too. Would look great and in accordance with the reports of insect wing architecture.

Radinyn

No

Darkstorne

Highlor3 wrote: »

Darkstorne wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

raj72616a wrote: »

they didnt fix the telvanni tower texture in morrowind despite the complaints

Fleshy shroom towers still be fleshy.

That disappointed me a lot especially after all the backlash in the beta forums

it was fan art, with all the canonical relevance of C0DA

I agree with your point, but I would also like to point out that C0DA is now canon courtesy of ESO

And on topic, hell yes to glass roofs. It doesn't solve the issue completely, but it's a fantastic compromise of lore and engine restrictions.

Enlight us on how C0DA was made canon by ESO?

In-game lore book from the Morrowind expansion, the 37th Lesson of Vivec. Most obviously by the final line: "The worlding of the words is AMARANTH" which if you've read C0DA tells you all you need to know. But also if you haven't read C0DA there's an amazing line in this lore book which reads:

"Go here: world without wheel, charting zero deaths, and echoes singing" Seht said, until all of it was done, and in the center was anything whatever.

Underlined the important parts of that for you. C0DA's website is www.c0da.es. That'll fill you in on what the Amaranth is, but the long and the short of it is:

The world of TES is a dream, and the dreamer is the Amaranth. Even the gods are a part of her dream. Eventually, a new dreamer will begin to dream a new world, from within the world of TES. Turtles all the way down. Those who have achieved chim are those who have realized the world isn't real but love it enough to remain within. They gain the power to do with the world whatever they will, much like lucid dreams irl (hence Talos mantling Lorkhan to become a god within this world). This also explains why modding is completely lore friendly, since every player has achieved chim whether they realize it or not, knowing the world isn't real, choosing to remain within anyway, and therefore having the power to shape the world (or simply toggle god mode) however they like. It also means ESO isn't lore friendly for this reason but we can let them off for that since players toggling god mode in PVP would get boring pretty fast.

OtarTheMad

Darkstorne wrote: »

Highlor3 wrote: »

Darkstorne wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

raj72616a wrote: »

they didnt fix the telvanni tower texture in morrowind despite the complaints

Fleshy shroom towers still be fleshy.

That disappointed me a lot especially after all the backlash in the beta forums

it was fan art, with all the canonical relevance of C0DA

I agree with your point, but I would also like to point out that C0DA is now canon courtesy of ESO

And on topic, hell yes to glass roofs. It doesn't solve the issue completely, but it's a fantastic compromise of lore and engine restrictions.

Enlight us on how C0DA was made canon by ESO?

In-game lore book from the Morrowind expansion, the 37th Lesson of Vivec. Most obviously by the final line: "The worlding of the words is AMARANTH" which if you've read C0DA tells you all you need to know. But also if you haven't read C0DA there's an amazing line in this lore book which reads:

"Go here: world without wheel, charting zero deaths, and echoes singing" Seht said, until all of it was done, and in the center was anything whatever.

Underlined the important parts of that for you. C0DA's website is www.c0da.es. That'll fill you in on what the Amaranth is, but the long and the short of it is:

The world of TES is a dream, and the dreamer is the Amaranth. Even the gods are a part of her dream. Eventually, a new dreamer will begin to dream a new world, from within the world of TES. Turtles all the way down. Those who have achieved chim are those who have realized the world isn't real but love it enough to remain within. They gain the power to do with the world whatever they will, much like lucid dreams irl (hence Talos mantling Lorkhan to become a god within this world). This also explains why modding is completely lore friendly, since every player has achieved chim whether they realize it or not, knowing the world isn't real, choosing to remain within anyway, and therefore having the power to shape the world (or simply toggle god mode) however they like. It also means ESO isn't lore friendly for this reason but we can let them off for that since players toggling god mode in PVP would get boring pretty fast.

C0da was written by Michael Kirkbride and so was the Vivec lessons so it's no wonder why they have tie in's together. The lessons were written long before ESO was made or even thought of.

Darkstorne

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Darkstorne wrote: »

Highlor3 wrote: »

Darkstorne wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

raj72616a wrote: »

they didnt fix the telvanni tower texture in morrowind despite the complaints

Fleshy shroom towers still be fleshy.

That disappointed me a lot especially after all the backlash in the beta forums

it was fan art, with all the canonical relevance of C0DA

I agree with your point, but I would also like to point out that C0DA is now canon courtesy of ESO

And on topic, hell yes to glass roofs. It doesn't solve the issue completely, but it's a fantastic compromise of lore and engine restrictions.

Enlight us on how C0DA was made canon by ESO?

In-game lore book from the Morrowind expansion, the 37th Lesson of Vivec. Most obviously by the final line: "The worlding of the words is AMARANTH" which if you've read C0DA tells you all you need to know. But also if you haven't read C0DA there's an amazing line in this lore book which reads:

"Go here: world without wheel, charting zero deaths, and echoes singing" Seht said, until all of it was done, and in the center was anything whatever.

Underlined the important parts of that for you. C0DA's website is www.c0da.es. That'll fill you in on what the Amaranth is, but the long and the short of it is:

The world of TES is a dream, and the dreamer is the Amaranth. Even the gods are a part of her dream. Eventually, a new dreamer will begin to dream a new world, from within the world of TES. Turtles all the way down. Those who have achieved chim are those who have realized the world isn't real but love it enough to remain within. They gain the power to do with the world whatever they will, much like lucid dreams irl (hence Talos mantling Lorkhan to become a god within this world). This also explains why modding is completely lore friendly, since every player has achieved chim whether they realize it or not, knowing the world isn't real, choosing to remain within anyway, and therefore having the power to shape the world (or simply toggle god mode) however they like. It also means ESO isn't lore friendly for this reason but we can let them off for that since players toggling god mode in PVP would get boring pretty fast.

C0da was written by Michael Kirkbride and so was the Vivec lessons so it's no wonder why they have tie in's together. The lessons were written long before ESO was made or even thought of.

37th sermon was brand new for ESO Morrowind, so C0DA is genuinely lore by choice of the devs

psychotrip

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Actually this would be good. I must say though I like the Italian Renaissance / Baroque architecture theme makes a lot of sense. Most of the old elf stuff had an Italian-y look in the series.

I don't recall any italian-y look to any of the elven stuff myself. Elven stuff utilizes organic shapes and abstract symbolism








One of these images doesn't fit.

OtarTheMad

Darkstorne wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Darkstorne wrote: »

Highlor3 wrote: »

Darkstorne wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

raj72616a wrote: »

they didnt fix the telvanni tower texture in morrowind despite the complaints

Fleshy shroom towers still be fleshy.

That disappointed me a lot especially after all the backlash in the beta forums

it was fan art, with all the canonical relevance of C0DA

I agree with your point, but I would also like to point out that C0DA is now canon courtesy of ESO

And on topic, hell yes to glass roofs. It doesn't solve the issue completely, but it's a fantastic compromise of lore and engine restrictions.

Enlight us on how C0DA was made canon by ESO?

In-game lore book from the Morrowind expansion, the 37th Lesson of Vivec. Most obviously by the final line: "The worlding of the words is AMARANTH" which if you've read C0DA tells you all you need to know. But also if you haven't read C0DA there's an amazing line in this lore book which reads:

"Go here: world without wheel, charting zero deaths, and echoes singing" Seht said, until all of it was done, and in the center was anything whatever.

Underlined the important parts of that for you. C0DA's website is www.c0da.es. That'll fill you in on what the Amaranth is, but the long and the short of it is:

The world of TES is a dream, and the dreamer is the Amaranth. Even the gods are a part of her dream. Eventually, a new dreamer will begin to dream a new world, from within the world of TES. Turtles all the way down. Those who have achieved chim are those who have realized the world isn't real but love it enough to remain within. They gain the power to do with the world whatever they will, much like lucid dreams irl (hence Talos mantling Lorkhan to become a god within this world). This also explains why modding is completely lore friendly, since every player has achieved chim whether they realize it or not, knowing the world isn't real, choosing to remain within anyway, and therefore having the power to shape the world (or simply toggle god mode) however they like. It also means ESO isn't lore friendly for this reason but we can let them off for that since players toggling god mode in PVP would get boring pretty fast.

C0da was written by Michael Kirkbride and so was the Vivec lessons so it's no wonder why they have tie in's together. The lessons were written long before ESO was made or even thought of.

37th sermon was brand new for ESO Morrowind, so C0DA is genuinely lore by choice of the devs

Well even so, it's an Easter Egg at best (to me anyway)