Will ZoS be signing up to THE FAIR PLAY ALLIANCE?

Soul_Marrow

Sixsixsix161 wrote: »

I was on WoW's largest NA server (Stormrage, located in Chicago), and general chat/trade on that server can only be described as an absolute cesspool.

Blizzard should start by hiring some extra people to monitor chat channels. There was absolutely nothing that was not discussed/talked about, no subject was off-limits.

Funny thing, I made a funny joke about a character and got a 24-hour bann, while players talking about having sex with their mother and sisters got nothing.

And this is only one of about a hundred reasons why it's a terrible idea.

ZOS_JesC

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DocDova

I am in for better Online Gaming experience and don't see any harm in it. It's better to be safe than sorry.

Just because we are not facing adverse problems with Toxic behavior during online gaming (I never faced it, Yet) doesn't mean Young generation won't face it. I am 36, We lived a life before all these technological advances, there was no social media, Video gaming was just single player experience or multi player with real life friends. Developing brains/personalities If exposed to such toxic behavior might cause long term residual effects.

With advent of social media and online gaming, We have given access to communication with complete strangers. When not being supervised (By parents/guardians) youngsters could be mean to each-other. I predicated in 2011-12 than social media would influence elections, right wing parties throughout the world would get benefited, It would be used for hate mongering and inciting violence and it's a reality today. Many youngsters are being diagnosed with completely new kind of mental disorders due to social media overuse, Psychiatrists agree with this. By overuse of technology, developing brain are being deprived of many skills which We have (people of my generation and before that). Human brain is most complex object in known universe, Many trivial things play great role in development of brain, for example if you start to learn writing with your non dominant hand, it would build new pathways in your brain. Typing on a keyboard could never be equal to writing on paper.

We don't know how toxic online behavior will effect young people in future But we (I think most developers would be in my age group, 30s, 40s, later 20's) have a responsibility to minimize the exposure. No offense meant But Most online tough guys aren't tough guys in real life, Real tough guys don't get harsh on people unless there is no other way (If they don't do this, They are bullies).

Sugaroverdose

DocDova wrote: »

I am in for better Online Gaming experience and don't see any harm in it. It's better to be safe than sorry.

Just because we are not facing adverse problems with Toxic behavior during online gaming (I never faced it, Yet) doesn't mean Young generation won't face it. I am 36, We lived a life before all these technological advances, there was no social media, Video gaming was just single player experience or multi player with real life friends. Developing brains/personalities If exposed to such toxic behavior might cause long term residual effects.

With advent of social media and online gaming, We have given access to communication with complete strangers. When not being supervised (By parents/guardians) youngsters could be mean to each-other. I predicated in 2011-12 than social media would influence elections, right wing parties throughout the world would get benefited, It would be used for hate mongering and inciting violence and it's a reality today. Many youngsters are being diagnosed with completely new kind of mental disorders due to social media overuse, Psychiatrists agree with this. By overuse of technology, developing brain are being deprived of many skills which We have (people of my generation and before that). Human brain is most complex object in known universe, Many trivial things play great role in development of brain, for example if you start to learn writing with your non dominant hand, it would build new pathways in your brain. Typing on a keyboard could never be equal to writing on paper.

We don't know how toxic online behavior will effect young people in future But we (I think most developers would be in my age group, 30s, 40s, later 20's) have a responsibility to minimize the exposure. No offense meant But Most online tough guys aren't tough guys in real life, Real tough guys don't get harsh on people unless there is no other way (If they don't do this, They are bullies).

i don't know where you've been, but online gaming and toxic behaviour of people started something like 23-25 years ago, and no it does not harm young people. Also, don't forget, this game is rated for mature.

Aesthier

I get the idea of "industry coming together" sounds nice however I am pretty sick of controlling industry in games already.

Activision was the end of Blizzard, EA the end of other games, Sony the end of EQ, (note for me playing them, not saying they died) I just really got sick of what sounded good end up leading to complete trash.


If gaming companies can't even stave off games being ruined when they have to seek bigger investors what in the world would lead anyone to believe that those same giant investors can stave off toxicity without ruining the games themselves like they have done without even approaching the subject?

Fact is I would rather Zenimax and Bethesda start their own Fair play alliance amongst themselves rather than be beholden to even more "larger industries".

[Note I don't include Bethesda and thier folks in this because they still to this day manage to create really good games]

Rain_Greyraven

I dunno, I can't see it helping much to be honest.....If we had a level playing field where all players were treated equally, but I just don't believe we do,

One of my jobs in college a few years back was as a GM for Blizzard in Austin, (short unhappy time in my life that sorta made me change majors) and certain accounts were flagged as "FOB" (Friends of Blizzard) they weren't subject to the escalation volcano or any consequences for in game or forum behavior.... (the latter we could only edit out "Very" offensive words and then only with a supervisors permission.)

I'm certain all devs do this to some degree, and I have seen it here (one gets banned for pretty minor things another is constantly abrasive and gets community ambassador) as well.

But if ZoS puts everyone on equal ground doesn't play favorites with friends, family and other protected users, it could help the community.

Here's hoping the latter would be what they have in mind

srfrogg23

So, I looked into this “fair play alliance” briefly. I don’t think it’s going to work. Especially if it’s misused.

Say someone commits a “micro aggression”, or whatever, and they get banned. What is a ban? The company is telling the customer “you didn’t act the way we think you should, so you’re not allowed to use our product.”

Well, if a customer can’t use the product, they’ll stop spending money on (or in, depending on monetization) the product.

Long story short, if they go all SJW 1984 on the customers, they’re going to end up hurting financially. I would caution any business that’s thinking about joining it.

yiasemi

As a member of some minorities, I have never come across much of anything except people who abuse my rubbish ping to grab treasure or doors ahead of me. Let's have an alliance against smarty townies taking advantage of us peasants struggling with abusive IPs. GRRR!! <Shakes fist 5 seconds after you left the scene of your crime.> Equality for slow-boes.

DocDova

Online gamin might been there for 23-25 Years (I am exclusive console player), but it's scale was much smaller. One can't say that it hasn't harmed anyone due to toxic behavior in last 23-25 years without conducting proper study about it. There is proper science behind these kind of studies, How many people were exposed, Depending upon number of exposed people, Sample size for study would be determined and study samples are selected in such manner that everyone has equal chance of getting selected, then selecting control group which matches perfectly with study group in every sense except they weren't exposed to variable we are studying.

So it's safe to say, Sitting in front of a computer screen and saying it doesn't happen because I and people I know turned out to be OK is not exactly scientific approach and rather trivializing entire issue.

Another Point is that ESRB Mature rating give access to 17 years and older, Which is still quite tender age to be a victim of Toxic behavior. Toxic behavior and Bullying might harm victims of any age, It depends upon vulnerability not some number.

I don't say Zos should join this particular alliance or I have read their objectives and I agree with them fully. It's just that they should also understand that we need to control toxic behavior, Not as top priority But it should be on agenda. Every game and it's mechanism are different, So toxic behavior would also be different, Developers are best people to know extend of such behavior and whether there is a need for corrective measures. Whether joining alliance is better or making their own alliance.

I am a professional (medical) and I fully understand why it's important to limit role of corporate in developers domain. No one like to see non professional people telling them what to do professionally. I am in favor of multiple mid size developers than few corporate controlling entire industry. So they should take whatever decision would be in their interest.

Rungar

looks like another case of bully in disguise.

Pr0fischimmler

Nermy wrote: »

The Fair Play Alliance is more than 30 companies, including Blizzard, Riot, and Twitch, that have joined forces to make online gaming a nicer experience. I realise this may not be for ZoS but Bethesda, but nvm. I think it's a great idea and more games companies need to subscribe to it.

The Fair Play Alliance.

PCGamer article.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

If Nietzsche was still alive... damn. This earth would be his hell. Not because he'd give in to sheep and hives, but because this world is so full of hivemind he'd just want to vomit.

Think for yourself! Take your own actions! If you are a leader with no internal opposition, what is your effective progress? If you are a sheep, what are you without the others. What are you then. Don't be a sheep, be a goat. Make your own decisions. And live with their consequences. And stop being sorry for other people who have not specifically adressed you to be sorry for them. *Stop*.

Noone is helping anyone by generalizing their matters based on extreme events (99,9% result in overdramatization, and thus, incredibility), instead you put nails in coffins of events, actions and words you have not thoroughly laid eyes on, or thought about by yourself. It's always easier to suck up others opinion. Courage is having your own opinion, thought and outlook, creating and modeling it. And being able sustainably defend it in an argument, altering it upon defeat. If you think that this is some Alliance's job, then you're in for a nice ride of censorship and generaloized case decisionmaking (*bleurgh*); on which the affected individual has no impact on. But your mind is clean, because you most likely don't give a [snip] about the diffamed person, his motifs, who he is, what he does. Sounds like pre-1989 east-berlin to me. Don't agree on what your neighbour says and does? Diffame him and have him dragged off.

[Edited to remove profanity]

anitajoneb17_ESO

Kanar wrote: »

SJW ***. And anyone who uses the word "toxic" can safely be ignored.

Except... Britney !!!

Nermy

Pr0fischimmler wrote: »

Nermy wrote: »

The Fair Play Alliance is more than 30 companies, including Blizzard, Riot, and Twitch, that have joined forces to make online gaming a nicer experience. I realise this may not be for ZoS but Bethesda, but nvm. I think it's a great idea and more games companies need to subscribe to it.

The Fair Play Alliance.

PCGamer article.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

If Nietzsche was still alive... damn. This earth would be his hell. Not because he'd give in to sheep and hives, but because this world is so full of hivemind he'd just want to vomit.

Think for yourself! Take your own actions! If you are a leader with no internal opposition, what is your effective progress? If you are a sheep, what are you without the others. What are you then. Don't be a sheep, be a goat. Make your own decisions. And live with their consequences. And stop being sorry for other people who have not specifically adressed you to be sorry for them. *Stop*.

Noone is helping anyone by generalizing their matters based on extreme events (99,9% result in overdramatization, and thus, incredibility), instead you put nails in coffins of events, actions and words you have not thoroughly laid eyes on, or thought about by yourself. It's always easier to suck up others opinion. Courage is having your own opinion, thought and outlook, creating and modeling it. And being able sustainably defend it in an argument, altering it upon defeat. If you think that this is some Alliance's job, then you're in for a nice ride of censorship and generaloized case decisionmaking (*bleurgh*); on which the affected individual has no impact on. But your mind is clean, because you most likely don't give a [snip] about the diffamed person, his motifs, who he is, what he does. Sounds like pre-1989 east-berlin to me. Don't agree on what your neighbour says and does? Diffame him and have him dragged off.

And what if you're a kid who doesn't have that level of maturity yet? Should they not be protected to some extent? Look at the rise of Fortnite, it's a pre-teens CoD and I've seen the toxic behaviour on CoD. These are kids, it should be up to the gaming industry to come together to protect them before they get told to.

[Edited to remove profanity]

Ancientwolf

You cant legislate someone into liking, or accepting you. You also dont have a right to tell them they cannot publicly admit such preference, nor seek to recompense for them doing so. This can apply to just about any facet in life and well, in games too.

Read this to yourself:

"I dont like you, your race, your religion, or your orientation. I dont even want anything to do with you and neither do my friends. Go away."

Wait 1 day.

You'll still be here tomorrow, and so will they. Any action taken after that by either party to further dissuade, manipulate, or ostracize, revisit the exchange barring mutually agreed visitation, is called seeking reparation. It doesnt belong in games.

Toxic game scenarios have been there since we could first chat in a game. We are all still here.

Rain_Greyraven

Ancientwolf wrote: »

You cant legislate someone into liking, or accepting you. You also dont have a right to tell them they cannot publicly admit such preference, nor seek to recompense for them doing so. This can apply to just about any facet in life and well, in games too.

Read this to yourself:

"I dont like you, your race, your religion, or your orientation. I dont even want anything to do with you and neither do my friends. Go away."

Wait 1 day.

You'll still be here tomorrow, and so will they. Any action taken after that by either party to further dissuade, manipulate, or ostracize, revisit the exchange barring mutually agreed visitation, is called seeking reparation. It doesnt belong in games.

Toxic game scenarios have been there since we could first chat in a game. We are all still here.

*looks at the list of Video gamers who committed suicide in the past ten years.

Well all of us aren't...not really.

Note; this was a devils advocate post not intended to trigger or throw anyone into an outage seizure.The point is; yes there are problems and doing nothing is just as useless as signing up for some anti bullying league.

Ancientwolf

Rain_Greyraven wrote: »

Ancientwolf wrote: »

You cant legislate someone into liking, or accepting you. You also dont have a right to tell them they cannot publicly admit such preference, nor seek to recompense for them doing so. This can apply to just about any facet in life and well, in games too.

Read this to yourself:

"I dont like you, your race, your religion, or your orientation. I dont even want anything to do with you and neither do my friends. Go away."

Wait 1 day.

You'll still be here tomorrow, and so will they. Any action taken after that by either party to further dissuade, manipulate, or ostracize, revisit the exchange barring mutually agreed visitation, is called seeking reparation. It doesnt belong in games.

Toxic game scenarios have been there since we could first chat in a game. We are all still here.

*looks at the list of Video gamers who committed suicide in the past ten years.

Well all of us aren't...not really.

Note; this was a devils advocate post not intended to trigger or throw anyone into an outage seizure.The point is; yes there are problems and doing nothing is just as useless as signing up for some anti bullying league.

Regardless of environment, someone willing to disrespect the gift of life would find any number of reason or means of doing so with or without controls in those environments. The first one to blame an environment only need realize that despite those controls, it will not change the attitudes of the people- period. If feeling better costs that high of a price, its no different than either party exchanging roles IMHO. I'm not trying to trigger either, its just simple observation.

Rain_Greyraven

Ancientwolf wrote: »

Rain_Greyraven wrote: »

Ancientwolf wrote: »

You cant legislate someone into liking, or accepting you. You also dont have a right to tell them they cannot publicly admit such preference, nor seek to recompense for them doing so. This can apply to just about any facet in life and well, in games too.

Read this to yourself:

"I dont like you, your race, your religion, or your orientation. I dont even want anything to do with you and neither do my friends. Go away."

Wait 1 day.

You'll still be here tomorrow, and so will they. Any action taken after that by either party to further dissuade, manipulate, or ostracize, revisit the exchange barring mutually agreed visitation, is called seeking reparation. It doesnt belong in games.

Toxic game scenarios have been there since we could first chat in a game. We are all still here.

*looks at the list of Video gamers who committed suicide in the past ten years.

Well all of us aren't...not really.

Note; this was a devils advocate post not intended to trigger or throw anyone into an outage seizure.The point is; yes there are problems and doing nothing is just as useless as signing up for some anti bullying league.

Regardless of environment, someone willing to disrespect the gift of life would find any number of reason or means of doing so with or without controls in those environments. The first one to blame an environment only need realize that despite those controls, it will not change the attitudes of the people- period. If feeling better costs that high of a price, its no different than either party exchanging roles IMHO.

I get that I really do and respect your opinion but disagree. I mean we have developers that drops pianos on jerks all the time and it works. I remember someone talking back about how Arenanet uses a zero tolerance policy on bullying (even on the forums) and the penalty is deleting your account no matter who you are, and Square Enix has been known to be pretty brutal as well.....I know from experience as FFXI player, we had elitist, but start being an insulting Jerk and you would have a deleted character.

That may sound draconian, but I know that GW2 and FFXIV have far fewer issues than WoW or ESO community wise.

DocDova

OK, I have read some arguments. So Far I can see polarizing views.

Some feels A lot has do be done to prevent Toxic behavior in online gaming.

Some like me are saying there is some problem, Which obviously Game Masters would know better than me and since they are also incharge of correcting it, they should take decision regarding this, They also have to protect their business interests.

Lastly there are people who think there is Nothing Toxic in online gaming and they reject this whole idea.

PS: I am not forming a Firm stand on this YET because I lack sufficient and reliable data (not because I am incapable of making strong stands), Not to mention There is clear conflict of interest for me as I want video game industry to thrive and provide me with better content. Me making a Fixed stand Without proper knowledge of entire scene would not just be immoral But It Could harm a lot to an industry I want to thrive.