Bleeds

Savos_Saren

Pastas wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Pastas wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Aznox wrote: »

Also bleeds can crit

Yes ... like all dots that are applied from a player ability, i think everyone knows that.

oblivion damage (the magicka equivalent of bleeds that isn't even in the game as skill or skill passive) can't

oblivion damage isn't the "magicka equivalent" of bleed more that magicka dots are.

oblivion damage bypass shield, bleeds and magicka dots don't.

but then again, everyone knows that.

I didn't know that. Becouse i as magicka, i have nothing to bypass resistences. Give me that, and we'll be fine.

As magicka you have higher penetration due to litgh armor and destro pasives

Penetration still has to go through calculations of target' resistance. Unlike 0 need for penetration for bleed.

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Pastas wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Aznox wrote: »

Also bleeds can crit

Yes ... like all dots that are applied from a player ability, i think everyone knows that.

oblivion damage (the magicka equivalent of bleeds that isn't even in the game as skill or skill passive) can't

oblivion damage isn't the "magicka equivalent" of bleed more that magicka dots are.

oblivion damage bypass shield, bleeds and magicka dots don't.

but then again, everyone knows that.

I didn't know that. Becouse i as magicka, i have nothing to bypass resistences. Give me that, and we'll be fine.

As magicka you have higher penetration due to litgh armor and destro pasives

So, is it necessarily fair that a stamina character (who gets extra damage to make up for their lack of penetration) should have a status effect that ignores ALL physical resistance?

If you take the time to read the guy I was quoting he was saying that as magicka i have nothing to bypass resistences. And that's simply not true. I didn't said that It was better than stamina bleeds.

^
That guy, here.

As I said before- magicka builds have no proc (like bleed) that bypasses all resistances. Any stamina character can still use a bleed build and still use a frost/fire/lightning enchant on their weapon (if they choose to).

However, a magicka based character cannot equip a "bleed" enchant on their stave.

Savos_Saren

Lynx7386 wrote: »

No, it's cool guys, let's make everyone 100% identical -_-

No, it's called balance. Everything needs to have a counter to it. If stam builds get higher damage from their passives because spell builds get higher penetration- that's a form of balance.

Now, as a stamina bleed build- you get to keep that higher damage AND you get to ignore 100% physical resistance. There needs to be a magicka build equivalent of that to counter that sort of build.

And before you say "shields"- don't forget... shields come from various sources in this game (stamina weapons, class abilities, etc). And some shields aren't based off max magicka, either (health-based shields). So that's not a magicka counter.

So, my suggestion is to give magicka builds a spell equivalent to bleed.

Checkmath

Magicka classes have a similar thing like bleed, its called burning. Its also free damage with a procchance, it does a good amount of damage, it doesnt go through all resistances right, but still is very strong.

Savos_Saren

Checkmath wrote: »

Magicka classes have a similar thing like bleed, its called burning. Its also free damage with a procchance, it does a good amount of damage, it doesnt go through all resistances right, but still is very strong.

So is poisoned or diseased. You can be bleeding and poisoned. Hell, you can be bleeding and burning.

But my staff will never cause bleeding...

Checkmath

And your swords are never going to burn enemies as long as you dont have a fire enchant. And tadaa, your staff can do oblivion damage too.

Skander

Checkmath wrote: »

And your swords are never going to burn enemies as long as you dont have a fire enchant. And tadaa, your staff can do oblivion damage too.

Poisoned=Burning

Burning=/=bleeding


Oblivion dmg=Bleeding

But i have no rource but glyphs for oblivion dmg. and since oblivion dmg was nerfed it's not worth to slot.

Bleed weren't nerfed tho

Savos_Saren

Checkmath wrote: »

And your swords are never going to burn enemies as long as you dont have a fire enchant. And tadaa, your staff can do oblivion damage too.

Oblivion damage =/= bleed.

Oblivion damage is used by stamina and magicka users. It does a set amount of damage that cannot be resisted.

Bleed ignores all physical resistances. The only comparable thing to that would be a damage that ignores all spell resistances.

Why is this such a hard concept for some people?

Checkmath

I didnt say its the same, i said its similar, like also burning is similar to bleed. If you compare bleed to burning, then burning does more damage over less time. Bleed does less damage, but cant be mitigated by ressistances. I think this is a fair trade between those two. Still there are dots with more damage even after mitigation. I dont know why you make such a ranting about a little bit of free damage, when there are other sources of free damage too. Anyway the bleed OP died from mostly is not the free one, but the one from rending slashes, from a skill. In the same time OP would have taken more damage from burning ambers for example. The only bleed that is strong, is the one from werewolfs and rending slashes combined with master weapons.

Skander

He is comparing bleeds to burning.

I'm done

He's a legit ***

Maulkin

Checkmath wrote: »

I didnt say its the same, i said its similar, like also burning is similar to bleed. If you compare bleed to burning, then burning does more damage over less time. Bleed does less damage, but cant be mitigated by ressistances. I think this is a fair trade between those two. Still there are dots with more damage even after mitigation. I dont know why you make such a ranting about a little bit of free damage, when there are other sources of free damage too. Anyway the bleed OP died from mostly is not the free one, but the one from rending slashes, from a skill. In the same time OP would have taken more damage from burning ambers for example. The only bleed that is strong, is the one from werewolfs and rending slashes combined with master weapons.

I'm sorry but those statements are beyond bogus.

First off, I don't see how Burning status is in any way similar to bleeds. Poisoned status is what is similar to Burning. Both strong DoTs , both mitigated by resistances.

Secondly, bleed does not do less damage than Burning, that's complete nonsense. Let's start from the fact that you don't have a tooltip for Burning status damage to compare tooltips. If you compare damage against players, bleed damage is obviously much higher cause it's not mitigated.

And in PvE, if you compare StamBlade vs MagBlade dummy parses for example, you will see Twin Blade and Blunt bleed does way way more damage than Burning. On a Dark Elf (fire dmg passive) MagBlade, the Burning status will do 1.0-1.2k dps on a 6m dummy. On a Redguard StamBlade against the same 6m dummy, the Twin Blade and Blunt from DW alone will do 2.0k - 2.4k dps. That's double.

There is no game content atm in which Burning proc is stronger than Bleed proc, or even a contender.

Burning Embers can hit harder than Rending Slashes in PvE, but it does not in PvP. Due to the aforementioned reasons. And Rending Slashes buffed by Master's Weapons (something very common, especially in PvP) absolutely does hit harder than Burning Embers in any and every content.

Aztlan

Zzzz...

Maryal

I want Malevolent Offering morphs to be changed:

Coagulated Offering
Allows you to sacrifice your own health to heal a friendly and stops all bleeding effects for 3 seconds. Although you sacrifice health, the amount healed is based on your stamina level.

Cauterized Offering:
Allows you to sacrifice your own health to heal a friendly and stops all bleeding effects for 3 seconds. Although you sacrifice health, the amount healed is based on your magica level.


Someone has to be able to stop the hemorrhaging.

Skander

Malevolent offering won't ever be used unlesse the cost is magicka.

jeskah

Skander wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

because you died to something, doesnt make it powerful and isnt considered a fact;)
but thats all you do, you stroll around, dye to something and complain about it on the forum. did you once do a little bit of research, did you play a bleed build by yourself, did you ask others about what they think? no i dont think you do and thats what makes your posts bad and insignificant, no numbers, no testing, no asking around.

Talking to you it's like answering an ass, he keeps grinning and doesn't get the point

I'll will say this once more

Stamina Bleeds are a free dot that shoudn't be this powerful. It outmatches using maces and even swords. It shound't be like this.

After this i'll drop out, i'll stop wasting time answering you

Okay, now i think i know where you miscalculated things:

In the screenshot, the rending slashes bleeds are anything, but free. Those are the dot portion of the skill rending slashes. The skill work like the poison arrow or the clench: part of the damage is direct, most of it is a dot.
Those are not free at all.

Now, the "free" bleed is the twin blade and blunt part - and there are tradeoffs too.

Kanar

Skander wrote: »

jeskah wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

jeskah wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Azurya wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Oh, forgot to say. The guy is an altmer

Ooooooo, so sorry you died there!
that ofc should be impossible, afterall you are a very good player, the best!
and immortal is your attribut!

and now you died, killed by just one guy, that one should be expelled from the game, don´t you think so?
afterall he was mean to you, and he killed you and hurt your pride!

Your sarcasm is not appreciated and since you can't get to the point, i'll drag you


See the recap. I see 3 bleeds. And 1 ultimate.
Every bleed hit more then that ultimate.

Those are dots, you know, the first rending ticked for about 1,2k over 5 seconds, the second for about 1k, the axe bleed ticked for 1,5.. hm, i want my master axes, should run VDMA.

The DB hit you for only 2k because your HP was already low, so you died from this 2k damage.

You had at least 3 attacker (2 rendings and one curse) and 5 seconds. And a roadkill DB. You *** this up.

t

jeskah wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Azurya wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Oh, forgot to say. The guy is an altmer

Ooooooo, so sorry you died there!
that ofc should be impossible, afterall you are a very good player, the best!
and immortal is your attribut!

and now you died, killed by just one guy, that one should be expelled from the game, don´t you think so?
afterall he was mean to you, and he killed you and hurt your pride!

Your sarcasm is not appreciated and since you can't get to the point, i'll drag you


See the recap. I see 3 bleeds. And 1 ultimate.
Every bleed hit more then that ultimate.

Those are dots, you know, the first rending ticked for about 1,2k over 5 seconds, the second for about 1k, the axe bleed ticked for 1,5.. hm, i want my master axes, should run VDMA.

The DB hit you for only 2k because your HP was already low, so you died from this 2k damage.

You had at least 3 attacker (2 rendings and one curse) and 5 seconds. And a roadkill DB. You *** this up.

the bleeds are from 1 person

And you tried to dodge the thing? Since i dont see the direct damage from the rending. So, we are speaking about 8 secs now, and you did nothing to prevent your death?

I don't know if you are aware. But the guy was not alone of course, i can tank 1 bleed pep. But when they get even 2 or three, things drop drastically and you have no way as magicka without a purify to outstand the dps. Magblade in heavy has just 1 shield, and healing ward isn't even that good of a shield. Swallow soul+ malubeth didn't catch up with the raw dot dmg. And that's frustrating. Then again. Roll dodge. Lol. I can rolldodge twice on magicka

So you run heavy and encounter a build designed to counter heavy, so you come to the forums and cry about it? Ok. I would suggest light + shields and cloak, or medium stamblade + roll and cloak, but then we'd see threads about "shield breaker OP!" And "detect pots OP!"

Skander

If you watch closly, you can see that bleed do more damage then a ultimate, and i'm a vampire (thus said ultimate does 20% more dmg on me)

Maulkin

Skander wrote: »

If you watch closly, you can see that bleed do more damage then a ultimate, and i'm a vampire (thus said ultimate does 20% more dmg on me)

Yeah, no. You don’t want me watch closely.

Cause if I do, I’ll tell you that’s only the DoT from the Ultimate, not the initial hit. The initial hit always shows separately and is not shown in this recap. Also you’re comparing 3 ticks of DBoS to 5 ticks of Blood Craze, because you died before all 5 ticks could be applied.

And I would also tell you that death recaps don’t show crits. Even the weakest DoT can look OP in a recap if it gets 2-3 crit ticks.

PS. Blood Craze can also get buffed by Master Weapons. In which case you are literally using two slots to buff that one DoT. Thus it probably should be the hardest hitting DoT. And we don't know if that was a Master Weapon empowered Blood Craze.

Checkmath

necroing already own threads Skander?
just let it be...
we are already past the point of all comparing from different skills and dots and burning and and and.....
btw in pve burning does more overall DPS than blunt bleed andburning amber as a dot deal more damage that rending slashes, when you compare a magicka dk parse with a stamina toon parse.

CyrusArya

The only thing possibly over tuned with bleeds is master axes. With the changes incoming to two handers, bleeds and dual wield will be plenty balanced. As it is now they are quite balanced, and don’t overperform meta sword and board or 2h builds depending on the class. That is ofc unless you’re a terrible player who cries on the forums and doesn’t understand basic game mechanics. Then it wouldn’t make sense and seen imbalanced.

For example, the kind of player that looks at a death recap with dots and can’t comprehend that the damage is incremental. You didn’t die to those dots alone, those were just the last things to tick on you before you died. That’s why the db only hit for 2k...you were basically dead at the time that ulti was popped. This recap leaves a lot out. A death recap with no context is useless to all but people who cry on the forums and try to spread agendas.

That is ofc unless you actually just died to dots alone over ten seconds, in which case you’re even worse than you come across as.

Skander

Maulkin wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

If you watch closly, you can see that bleed do more damage then a ultimate, and i'm a vampire (thus said ultimate does 20% more dmg on me)

Yeah, no. You don’t want me watch closely.

Cause if I do, I’ll tell you that’s only the DoT from the Ultimate, not the initial hit. The initial hit always shows separately and is not shown in this recap. Also you’re comparing 3 ticks of DBoS to 5 ticks of Blood Craze, because you died before all 5 ticks could be applied.

And I would also tell you that death recaps don’t show crits. Even the weakest DoT can look OP in a recap if it gets 2-3 crit ticks.

PS. Blood Craze can also get buffed by Master Weapons. In which case you are literally using two slots to buff that one DoT. Thus it probably should be the hardest hitting DoT. And we don't know if that was a Master Weapon empowered Blood Craze.

The dot of dawnbreaker, yes. And that's a huge dot. Buffed by 20% vs vampires

Drakkdjinn

Skander wrote: »

Oh, forgot to say. The guy is an altmer

Skander

Checkmath

he died by burning. its free damage. burning OP, nerf burning dot, plssssss

Avran_Sylt

Still don't like the idea behind bleeds.

The cut still has to go through something, it doesn't magically appear.

Buff the damage of bleeds, but make them take physical resistance into consideration.

Penetration should be the Physical counter to Tanky characters.

Unmitigated Bleeds allow players to build against both squishy and tanky players, and keep some tankiness of their own.

Why do you think that the DW ultimate isn't a bleed, and instead is listed as Physical Damage?

TheRedRavenTR

Skander wrote: »

Oh, forgot to say. The guy is an altmer

So many people thinking bleed is fine but if you are playing a class that doesnt have shields bleeds are kind off oblivion gylph with infused every two seconds. And bleed builds dont need penetration dont need alot of weapon damage. Just some bleeds and survivability. Bleed isnt that strong. Bleed builds are strong. Bleed needs a mitigation. You dont just slash throught heavy armor making enemies bleed out. İm just happy those builds suck in cyrodill.

Skander

Not emperor

Resistences don't matter since Bleeds go trough them (idiotic i know)

SmellyUnlimited

Sharee wrote: »

You're a NB, you can cloak to reduce all DOT damage on you (including bleeds) to zero.

This is not true any longer. Hasn’t been for a while now.

Zeromaz

Sharee wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Pastas wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Aznox wrote: »

Also bleeds can crit

Yes ... like all dots that are applied from a player ability, i think everyone knows that.

oblivion damage (the magicka equivalent of bleeds that isn't even in the game as skill or skill passive) can't

oblivion damage isn't the "magicka equivalent" of bleed more that magicka dots are.

oblivion damage bypass shield, bleeds and magicka dots don't.

but then again, everyone knows that.

I didn't know that. Becouse i as magicka, i have nothing to bypass resistences. Give me that, and we'll be fine.

As magicka you have higher penetration due to litgh armor and destro pasives

So, is it necessarily fair that a stamina character (who gets extra damage to make up for their lack of penetration) should have a status effect that ignores ALL physical resistance?

That made me think. Why exactly should bleeding be limited to stamina characters? There's plenty of "spiky" effects from magical abilities that could cause bleeding.

How about: make bleed damage flat value (not scaling with stats, similar to oblivion damage), and then give magicka specs equal access to it. Spells coming to mind as good "bleeding" candidates are warden flies, DK volatile armor, sorc crystal blast, etc.etc.

Sure... give crytal blast a bleed. Thats a solid idea

Savos_Saren

Another necro? Sure.

Bleed damage is 100% unbalanced. If there was a form of magicka- based damage that ignored all spell resistance- stamina characters would be screaming bloody murder.

Hell, at least Sloads can be used by stamina and magicka characters. (And it's getting nerfed.)